Simmons No Benjamins Association on the 'Cats [Archive]

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teej

12-23-2009, 04:49 PM

Looks like Simmons might actually get where we're going...full article here: http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/091223&sportCat=nba

Charlotte Bobcats (group A)

2009-10 payroll: $67.0 million
Projected 2010-11 payroll: $59.8 million

• VP's Take: I don't mind watching these guys. They play hard, they're well-coached, and Gerald Wallace's rebounding binge ranks up there with Kevin Porter being a four-time assist leader and E.C. Coleman making first-team All-Defense as one of the most random NBA things that's ever happened. If they upgraded Boris Diaw ($27 million through 2012), they might even be a mildly frisky Round 1 opponent. On the flip side, they're leading the league in Monets and paying $50.5 million combined through 2011 to Tyson Chandler, DeSagana Diop and Nazr Mohammed … or as they're more commonly known, "50.5 Million That We Should Have Just Set On Fire."
(Important note: Did you know DeSagana Diop will earn $7.342 million just for the 2012-13 season? I think the Mark Cuban Big Man Scholarship Fund is my favorite NBA charity. The NBA really DOES care.)

• Mitigating Factor: Larry Brown is permanently wired in "short-term right now we gotta fix this and get better!" mode, only they're getting destroyed financially and can only hope to win 37-40 games (good enough to make the playoffs in the crappy Eastern Conference, but still).

• VP's Verdict: Go for it this year and tank long-term. For example …

Fake Trade 4a: Diaw, D.J. Augustin and Gerald Henderson to Phoenix for Amar'e Stoudemire and Taylor Griffin (cap throw-in). Charlotte satiates Brown's short-term competitive disorder, gets a 20-point scorer AND gets out of Diaw's deal. If Amar'e leaves after the season, so be it. Phoenix saves $6 million (including the tax), adds two young assets and gets something for Amar'e. One danger: Nash pulls a "BROOKS WAS HERE" in his hotel room when he hears about the trade. Otherwise, I like it.

Fake Trade 4b: Chandler and Wallace to the Clippers for Marcus Camby, Al Thornton and the Rasual Butler/Ricky Davis ECs. Camby is a one-year upgrade on Chandler who replaces Wallace's rebounding; Thornton/Butler could replace Wallace's scoring; and the deal saves Charlotte $3 million-plus this year, then another $20 million next year. Again, have you seen their home games? They hosted Detroit on Tuesday and it looked like it was "Get Your Own Row Night."

Proudiddy

12-23-2009, 05:08 PM

I liked the write-up until the proposed fake trade 4b... BTW, isn't the Clippers Simmons' favorite team?

Gee, wonder why Wallace is included in that trade scenario? lol

teej

12-23-2009, 05:09 PM

I liked the write-up until the proposed fake trade 4b... BTW, isn't the Clippers Simmons' favorite team?

Gee, wonder why Wallace is included in that trade scenario? lol

Haha yeah he just wants to see Wallace 30+ times a year.

But 4a would be sweet.

Fred Williamson

12-23-2009, 05:13 PM

Camby and two scrubs for Chandler and Crash? What the hell is this guy smoking?

Muttley

12-23-2009, 05:14 PM

I liked the write-up until the proposed fake trade 4b... BTW, isn't the Clippers Simmons' favorite team?

Gee, wonder why Wallace is included in that trade scenario? lol

Simmons is a Celtics guy, but he has season tickets to the Clips.This team should be in No-Wallace-Trades mode.

BRNC

12-23-2009, 06:51 PM

I think LB and MJ know they'd be run out of town (as in no fans at the arena) if they trade Crash...I do not see Crash going anywhere...

jdsingar

12-23-2009, 07:40 PM

Trade 4a is awesome. I don't think 4b is awful either, because it would be nice to get rid of Chandler and have a good Center. Thornton isn't bad. But yes, giving up Crash would be franchise suicide.

I love the "Get Your Own Row" comment, I loled.

BRNC

12-23-2009, 07:47 PM

I realize I might be in the minority here but but both these trades suck on so many levels I could not begin...

When you finally start to have better than descent drafts...we

Immediately trade the future away for a coach who lives by the nano-second...could give a rats-ass about this franchise...and has a man-crush on Boris Diaw...

I'm sorry but I refuse to be a "fan" that thinks every stupid, dumb-ass, help any team but ours trade is a good trade...

Yes so we get Amare for a year...so what...how many years have the Suns had him and what?

teej

12-23-2009, 10:54 PM

^This franchise needs to make the playoffs more than anything right now. Trading away the worse of this years draft picks, likely saving money in the long term, and winning now, what's not to like?

BRNC

12-23-2009, 11:40 PM

Teej...couple of things...

1) We have absolutely no idea how good/mediocre/bad Hendo actually is...and until we either have a different coach or he plays for a different coach we may not know...but I do (from the little he has played) that he can play "D" at the NBA level and he is very athletic...two things I do not take lightly in talent evaluations...

2) Trading away DJ (who will never play "D" on Rays level) who is at least a solid back-up PG in the NBA...along with Hendo...and the fact AA will never be much of anything means we've tossed three years of first round draft picks out the door...plus the EO50 pick for "glass ass" makes four years...plus "I'm not going to be in the league after this year" Ammo Morrison makes five years...and you think that we are considered (without tossing DJ and Hendo) as the franchise with the bleakest future?

We trade Hendo and DJ and probably make the playoffs and Amare walks and LB walks...major gain...my answer

MJ and Rod need to grow a pair...sit LB down...and this is the conversation..."Make the playoffs with the talent we have...it is good talent...we match up (talent-wise) with every team in the discussion for the 6-8 seeds in the East....and if you don't feel you can do it...say good-bye...and if you don't do it...say good-bye because the talent we kept is very good...the talent "we" (Jax) brought in is very good...and if you don't like the talent you bought in...tough shit..." "We'll make trades we feel make the team better if we can...if not you got what you got...just like any other NBA coach".

A better solution (IMO) than A or B...

Addition: The real kicker for me is I can make an easy case of Coaching (if you call it that) and poor bench usage/rotation costing us 5-7 of our "Ls"...and if those "poorly coached" games were what they should have been..."Ws" this discussion would not be happening...I've never been an advocate of mediocre trades to make up for a lacking on the Coaches part...LB needs to either start coaching (or be made to start coaching) as if his job is on the line...and his job needs to be on the line IMO...

...and I think it is "cute" of Simmons (who is a clippers season ticket holder: and I'm exaggerating here to make a point) to offer such a "great" B alternative...knowing that the Suns turned down (from all reports) was a better deal from the GSWs...not only that Kerr wanted Diaw out and there is no way the Suns take him back (Diaw burned that bridge)...how nice for him to have a "great" alternative knowing the Suns would probably turn our deal down...but even if they would take it I would not make it to "rent" Amare for half a season...

Then the "B"...we get to trade the best player on our team...the one player the fans support...the one guy that will be our first all-star...are you kidding me...I'd better stop...I'm giving myself a "headache" thinking about these trades and the "joke" LB has turned into...

ND22

12-24-2009, 12:09 AM

Yeah uh if Gerald Wallace is ever traded I will stop rooting for the Bobcats.

First trade is ok, the second one is out of the question...no beyond out of the question.

Chef

12-24-2009, 08:55 AM

i am going to type a thought that i did not research against other coaches records: blast away if i am wrong. everytime i see a graphic for best coaches etc, lb is always up there. he is right around 250 games over .500 but has a win % somewhere in the the high 50 to low 60%. if memory serves, he has 1 title in 20+ years. why is this good? to me it seems he is the king of mediocrity. sure he he has the most wins but he also probably has the most tries, by a lot. the same argument could be said for jerry sloan, but at least he has been with the same team and is not known as a coach who jumps ship and burns bridges (is it his fault mj decided to come back just as the jazz were peaking?). from what i have seen the past 2 years, lb is not overly impressive as a coach. he doesn't fit his offense to his personal, is inflexible when it comes to strategy and seems to irritate his players more than he motivates them. his frequent man-crushes and flavors of the week have seemed to do more harm than good and his brand of basketball is boring as hell to watch. it kind of reminds me of when joe gibbs came back to the skins and tried to implement the early 90's "hogs" offense. it didn't work the game had passed him by, the players had passed him by. not to say that lb isn't much better than FHB (he is much better) but to me he is just a below or just at average coach.

teej

12-24-2009, 02:38 PM

Chef

12-24-2009, 11:16 PM

^For one, LB is I think the only coach to win a NCAA and NBA championship. He also has gotten all teams he has coached 2+ years into the postseason. He is the ultimate franchise fixer, in the eyes of owners. And to be fair, anyone who can coach over 30 years at this level has to be doing something right. He is a great teacher, not a great manager of players. Maybe that's what you're thinking? He really should've stayed a college coach.

i agree, crash and ray have gotten much better from a fundamentals standpoint and are both very solid and true professionals. his coaching style does suit the college game where a bob knight type me or the highway can work. it usually works for about a year or two in the pros then the players have had enough.

LiquidWayno

12-29-2009, 12:03 AM

I would love to do that Phoenix trade - could AA be traded for Hendo? Then I would love it even more.

Ampsportsduo

12-31-2009, 11:30 AM

Since this is a recent Simmons-related thread I thought I would add this to the discussion.

From Part 2 of his 12/30 podcast with Ric Bucher and Marc Stein:

Discussing trade moves before the deadline...

Stein: David West is someone you have to look at... there's going to be a lot more interest in West than Okafor.
Simmons: (chuckling) Okafor has been... not good. I would say there's no interest in him. I would hope not. I can't imagine why anyone...
Stein: I think we were all surprised he already got traded once.
Simmons: That was the rarely seen bad trade for both teams.

French_Cats

12-31-2009, 11:54 AM

David west please

SWedd523

12-31-2009, 01:10 PM

Sounds good. First, Tyson Chandler. Second, David West. Third, Chris Paul when his contract expires.

Add in Jack and Crash (better than their 2/3 options) and we have a team that's better than the one they had that was top 3 in the West a couple of years ago.

That's Championship contention right thar ladies and gents!:o

Walt Cronkite

12-31-2009, 01:13 PM

Will do anything to acquire CP3.

SWedd523

12-31-2009, 01:31 PM

Will do anything to acquire CP3.
annyyyyyythinngggggggggg? ;) :g:

Seriously though, it would be a sort of poetic justice. Shinn steals our beloved team away to New Orleans, only to have Charlotte steal the players right back. LOL. I kind of like that

Chef

12-31-2009, 05:38 PM

annyyyyyythinngggggggggg? ;) :g:

Seriously though, it would be a sort of poetic justice. Shinn steals our beloved team away to New Orleans, only to have Charlotte steal the players right back. LOL. I kind of like that

here it is:
4 team deal: can't figure a sure fire reason why any of the teams don't do it. assuming shinn is only really concerned about money and not fair return on stars.

Char:
Out: henderson, dj, tyson
Char In: cp3

NO out:
cp3, posey, west
NO in: tmac, chase budinger, henderson, jj hickson, cleveland's first 2010, our first 2012 if necessary to get the deal done

Cavs out:
hickson, jamario moon, shaq
Cavs in:
posey, west, chandler

Rockets out:
tmac, budinger
Rockets in:
shaq, moon, dj, our highest 2nd round pick this year (both if necessary)

Chef

01-05-2010, 11:37 AM

kickazzz2000

01-05-2010, 11:51 AM

from simmons tweet:

sportsguy33

Fake Trade No. 1: Boozer/Korver expirings to Charlotte for Diaw/Chandler (both expire 2011). Knocks Utah under tax, Char still under.

I think I may take it, regardless if he resigns. Let's go for it this year. Why not? No long term ramifications.

You have to take it. You're trading straight GARBAGE for not only expirings, but a productive expiring that plays at an all star level. Who cares if he doesn't re-sign. Even if he doesn't, you got rid of two garbage players a year early.

Plus, its the summer of 2010. Sure, you're not getting Lebron but Joe Johnson is no slouch. (just an example)

spectre

01-05-2010, 12:54 PM

Dcarnys

01-05-2010, 01:00 PM

Will do anything to acquire CP3.

I second that.

spectre

01-05-2010, 01:02 PM

I just saw Bass' contract, which is 4 million flat for the next 3 seasons after this one (last is a PO). That is a HELLUVA deal for his production.

He hasn't been abusing kids has he?

teej

01-05-2010, 01:59 PM

I just saw Bass' contract, which is 4 million flat for the next 3 seasons after this one (last is a PO). That is a HELLUVA deal for his production.

He hasn't been abusing kids has he?

What production?

And I'd do Simmons trade yesterday. Boozer would beast and between Gana and Nazzy we'd have a solid center.

And Korver would make Flip trade bait with Acie.

spectre

01-05-2010, 03:26 PM

What production?

And I'd do Simmons trade yesterday. Boozer would beast and between Gana and Nazzy we'd have a solid center.

And Korver would make Flip trade bait with Acie.

Apologies...I think I got crossed up trying to answer multiple posts at one time...the Bass comment should have been in the managment thread.

Anyway...this production:

In regards to Bass...you guys know he has a PER this year of 17.6, and his lowest in the last 3 years was 15.9 right? That's higher than Jax and is comparable with Crash's 17.9. He also has a high efficiency rate of 0.56 (Crash=0.49, Jax=0.44) as well as a very good true shooting % of 0.58 (Crash=0.56, Jax=0.50).

He has a similar PER & true shooting % as Crash and a better efficiency. Since Crash is our best player I'd call that production...esp. at 4 million per.

GoBobs

01-05-2010, 03:49 PM

Love the idea of getting Chris Paul but I don't know if the rockets really want dj when they already have lowery and brooks but I like the idea of that deal.

Bass would also be a nice target. The magic have talked about getting another big so the might be intrested in gana or alexis if they move gotart to another team. maybe there is a chance to get in a three way deal.

Also I do the simmons deal in a second. I don't love boozer but he makes our team better right now and we get cap space to go after lebron.

Also I read recently that the raptors may have to accept nate robinson and david lee as bait in a sign and trade for chris bosh. I don't understand how the knicks could force those players to the raptors when there contracts will be up this year. If diaw starts playing well again though they might rather have dj and diaw or tc.

Felton for Prez

01-05-2010, 04:35 PM

Also I do the simmons deal in a second. I don't love boozer but he makes our team better right now and we get cap space to go after lebron.

You are just kidding, right?

GoBobs

01-05-2010, 06:44 PM

Hell no every team should be trying to go after lebron. We can offer a chance for a star to team up with GW who is an all nba defender. Lebron called GW one of the best 3 guards in the east. We also have a vet coach and MJ to try to sell the whole deal. If we had Lebron at the PF and GW at the SF we would be the best defensive team ever. As Lebron said the other night we have quite a few pieces already we just need that one superstar. If we can't sign Lebron we go after wade or bosh. Crazier things have happened. Who thought the sixers would sign elton away from the clippers and the warriors.

If you took Diaw off our roster right now and added Lebron we would challange the bulls 70 whatever win team.

Chef

01-05-2010, 09:36 PM

cole, you stupid.

teej

01-05-2010, 10:52 PM

You are just kidding, right?

Some people don't get it.

But I wouldn't take him even if we could afford him.

110oldeast

01-06-2010, 12:20 AM

BobCatsFanInTx

01-06-2010, 12:10 PM

Some people don't get it.

But I wouldn't take him even if we could afford him.You are kidding, right?

teej

01-06-2010, 01:13 PM

You are kidding, right?

No. If we could get him, we could get Wade too. And Wade wants to win. LeBron wants to "play" and dance.

GoBobs

01-06-2010, 02:08 PM

well if I was any of those guys I would rather have gw as my sidekick then galinari

teej

01-06-2010, 02:36 PM

well if I was any of those guys I would rather have gw as my sidekick then galinari

You don't want a guy who can do this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lPWMKD8uZo

Me either.