02/18 Trade Deadline Update (and Tyrus Thomas/Theo Ratliff) Thread

[rsxnova]

How can a team make a final push at 3:12?

[BETCATS]

Bob johnson nixed it
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_DVmkqk7uYeM/SXI6zVcdnrI/AAAAAAAAASY/7gh9vtdsOY0/s320/gtfo3cr.jpg

Also, Steve Kerr is on NBATV now, Amare aint going anywhere

[SirBobcat]

just as long as the nba has knowledge that you're trying to work out a deal, they'll let you negotiate past the 3 PM deadline.

[BobCatsFanInTx]

Man I like the proposed trade except that I would rather keep Nazr and get rid of Desegana.

[vorbis]

Bobcats in talks with Pacers for a trade...

http://basketball.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/64845/20100218/pacers_bobcats_in_talks_about_ford_augustin/#

The Pacers and Bobcats are in talks regarding a trade involving a pair of point guards, according to Adrian Wojnarowski of Yahoo! Sports

Indiana and Charlotte are discussing a potential T.J. Ford-D.J. Augustin swap.

"Charlotte and Indiana in serious talks on deal that would send T.J. Ford to Bobcats for package that includes D.J. Augustine, source says," Wojnarowski wrote on his Twitter page.

Update: Talks have centered around Ford and Brandon Rush for Augustin, Nazr Mohammed and Gerald Henderson.

This would be good if we were getting rid of Diop instead of Mohammed.

ETx - i think you're about 5 pages late on that one, unless that is actually news that the deal is going to happen after all despite numerous reports that it was dead.

[murphman]

If this does indeed happen, I will hire a hitman on ballwhore.

If it's possible to get a hit on a man locked inside his mother's basement.

:bang: :deadbanana:

[BETCATS]

The Indy deal could still happen, lets see.....

[ammofan]

The Indy deal could still happen, lets see.....


did u hear something new?

[ammofan]

The deal is NOT HAPPENING:
http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/64852/20100218/ford_charlotte_rumors_were_just_that/

[BETCATS]

did u hear something new?
Just the fact that deals can happen as long as you tell the league you need some more time to work it out.

At this point, based off everything, it seems dead though.

[rsxnova]

Guy just said we could be a top 4-5 team in the east.

[teej]

Guy just said we could be a top 4-5 team in the east.

Jalen Rose said that, he and Broussard were giving us mad props.

And, as usual, Adande didn't even acknowledge us.

[ohara831]

Cannot believe someone in the FO was entertaining that Indiana deal. My gosh, we have some real knuckleheads up there!

[BETCATS]

And, as usual, Adande didn't even acknowledge us.
NBA TV didnt even talk about us on their 1 1/2 hour long special. Just a bunch of stuff from the Bulls perspective.

[spectre]

Pretty sure Betcats is right...that 3 PM thing isn't a hard deadline.

Tho it looks better I don't think we're out of the woods quite yet on this one.

[Fred Williamson]

thank god, it's over...

[rsxnova]

thank god, it's over...

Lets hope so.

[JefDav84]

Pretty sure Betcats is right...that 3 PM thing isn't a hard deadline.

Tho it looks better I don't think we're out of the woods quite yet on this one.

I agree. Even if Ford said on his twitter its not happening does not mean anything. I mean I heard today Flip was practicing, and nobody even told him he was getting traded. And this was well after the deal was pretty much done.

[BETCATS]

quote:steve kyler - 02/18/2010 3:15pm est-
ross siler of the salt lake tribune is reporting that ronnie brewer may have been dealt, likely to the memphis grizzlies who had expressed interest in brewer earlier this season .


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

steve kyler - 02/18/2010 3:06pm est-
mike wells of the indianapolis star is reporting "no deal" will drop between the pacers and bobcats according to his sources with the pacers.

Kevin ding of the orange county register is reporting the lakers will also not make a deal today.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

steve kyler - 02/18/2010 2:58pm est-
espn's chad ford saying there could be a last minute deal with amar'e stoudemire… could come down to the wire.

Miami sources saying it does not look good for a deal involving boozer .

Things that could drop after the 3pm cutoff --- pacers/bobcats deal… marcus banks for sasha swap with toronto and lakers… memphis could land dorrell wright from miami… nuggets could get kurt thomas, although bucks sources say they may be done dealing.


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alex kennedy - 02/18/2010 2:51pm est-
we're hearing two different stories with the potential indiana-charlotte deal. Pacers players have been told of the deal and are expecting it to happen. Meanwhile, the bobcats don't seem as optimistic that a deal will get done. It looks as if this one could come down to the wire, stay tuned.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
steve kyler - 02/18/2010 2:38pm est-
yahoo!'s adrian wojnarowski is reporting indiana and charlotte are discussing a last minute deal that could send tj ford and brandon rush to charlotte in exchnage for dj augustin, nazr mohammed and gerald henderson.

buckle up!

[SirBobcat]

Pretty sure Betcats is right...that 3 PM thing isn't a hard deadline.

Tho it looks better I don't think we're out of the woods quite yet on this one.

I mentioned it first, but yeah that is indeed the case.

[ammofan]

Well reagardless.....Im very happy we got T-time!

[rsxnova]

Its starting to look like the bobcats dont like this trade.

[spectre]

I mentioned it first, but yeah that is indeed the case.

apologies SirBobcat, totally missed that as my attention was on so many things. +1 to make up for it.

[spankymoore7]

Adrian Wojnarowski's Twitter is saying Theo has been traded to the Cats! Any info?

[teej]

Its starting to look like the bobcats dont like this trade.

It doesn't take Einstein to know why...

[Fred Williamson]

We got Theo Ratliff y'all!

But still not known what we send out. I hope it's not DJ or a future first round pick :facepalm:

[dav7z]

Whats this Ratliff to Charlotte
http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/64857/20100218/spurs_trade_ratliff_to_charlotte/#

Any one heard any thing

[Fred Williamson]

Charlotte's DJ Augustin is going to San Antonio, source says.

....................

[teej]

Absolutely has to be Stevie unless we're using an exception.

But it doesn't make sense?

EDIT: Only other player it even could be is UPS, because they have no exceptions. So it's Stevie, Derrick, or false. Better be the first or last. Watch it be the middle...

[BETCATS]

Theo for DJ?
Something else has to be added in. Its either that or LB really hates DJ

[murphman]

We better have only given up some cash considerations for Theo. He isn't even worth a late 2nd round pick in the 2018 draft.

[teej]

....................

Where did you get that??

[SWedd523]

....................

Uh WTF. Ratliff is like 68 years old. If we traded DJ for that bum I'll seriously have to reconsider my fanship.

[spectre]

They actually found a worse deal than the one for TJ Ford!

Man, this FO is something else. :facepalm:

[BETCATS]

The San Antonio Spurs have traded center Theo Ratliff(notes) to the Charlotte Bobcats in a salary-cap dump, league sources told Yahoo! Sports.

Ratliff was making the league minimum $1.3 million, which lessens the Spurs’ luxury-tax bill.
Relax, just a salary dump! And a good one too, given the fact all our centers get injured so often.

[ohara831]

Guessing Stephen Graham by the way the salaries work. I would not be thrilled with that, but it may be due to Gana and Nazr both being injured. May have been out of necessity.

[ammofan]

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_fNWeCxTWyJ0/S32riRFW2XI/AAAAAAAAADk/RVd3iuThwzM/s1600-h/ttime+copy.png

I just made a TTime sig! Check it out!

[Fred Williamson]

whoops, wrong thread

[teej]

They actually found a worse deal than the one for TJ Ford!

Man, this FO is something else. :facepalm:

DJ straight up doesn't work.

We could do George Hill + Theo for DJ. Which I actually don't mind.

[ammofan]

Wait so we got Ratliff too? NICE! as long as we dont give up dj for some trash Im good..........

[ammofan]

DJ straight up doesn't work.

We could do George Hill + Theo for DJ. Which I actually don't mind.

Now that trade would be good. Hill is very good.

[teej]

Relax, just a salary dump! And a good one too, given the fact all our centers get injured so often.

What for? Since we technically have to give something? And the Raja exception isn't a real asset is it?

[BETCATS]

Guessing Stephen Graham by the way the salaries work. I would not be thrilled with that, but it may be due to Gana and Nazr both being injured. May have been out of necessity.
I think it was just for cash.
If it was for Graham, Henderson is about to get some serious burn.

[GoBobs]

I would not mind including DJ as long as they throw in Blair

[Keetch]

How many shitty Centers can one NBA team have? Isn't there a Shitty Center Cap or something somewhere?

[teej]

How many shitty Centers can one NBA team have? Isn't there a Shitty Center Cap or something somewhere?

It's a Larry Brown requirement. He's begging Primoz to get traded here now too...

[GoBobs]

TT 16 in blocks per 48 min and 14 in steals per 48 min going to help our D

[Weezy21]

Theo for DJ?
Something else has to be added in. Its either that or LB really hates DJ

i hope they throw in george hill

[Fred Williamson]

It was a joke guys. chill out :cool::biggrin:

[Keetch]

Next time we play the Nets we need to start:

Nazr Mohammed
Theo Ratliff
Alexis Ajinca
Gana Diop
Tyson Chandler

O crap, I forgot; most of those guys are injured....

[BETCATS]

It was a joke guys. chill out :cool::biggrin:
What exactly are you talking about?

[rsxnova]

I wont mind having theo for cash.

[jdsingar]

How many shitty Centers can one NBA team have? Isn't there a Shitty Center Cap or something somewhere?

ROFL! It's too bad we couldn't have gotten Jerome James' expiring contract. Then we would have the absolute worst and most overpaid player in the history of basketball.

[jdsingar]

BTW I know we have the room on our bench for an extra player (2 in fact?) but..it would be nice to force Stephen Graham out of Charlotte so Hendo could actually play. Graham seems like a nice guy but...come on :facepalm:

[Fred Williamson]

What exactly are you talking about?

There is no "DJ to San antonio" scenario. I was just joking. Relax. Just wanted to know how much suffering you guys can bear.

[teej]

ROFL! It's too bad we couldn't have gotten Jerome James' expiring contract. Then we would have the absolute worst and most overpaid player in the history of basketball.

Eddy Curry?

[murphman]

It's a Larry Brown requirement. He's begging Primoz to get traded here now too...

Too late Primoz got traded to the Bucks

[teej]

Too late Primoz got traded to the Bucks

I know, but he could be traded here for Graham :biggrin:

[BETCATS]

There is no "DJ to San antonio" scenario. I was just joking. Relax. Just wanted to know how much suffering you guys can bear.
Oh that. Keep on yanking my chain man! :D



Seriously though....:paddle:

[G-Force for MVP]

so whats the deal?

[Weezy21]

so whats the deal?

i think just cash for leo

[rsxnova]

Im just happy we have a legit 4.

[murphman]

Kind of funny that the smoke is clearing and Amare is still with the Suns. Safe to say however that the last bridge was probably burned and he will be heading East in the summer (unless the Clipps get him).

[Fred Williamson]

Some dude from realgm posted this


The rumor is that its for a 2nd round pick.

I know it's just a 2nd round pick but come on....

[ammofan]

im just happy we have a legit 4.

yes sir!!!!!!

[ammofan]

Some dude from realgm posted this



I know it's just a 2nd round pick but come on....

R we ever going to have a pick again? lol....but whatever

[Ampsportsduo]

R we ever going to have a pick again? lol....but whatever

We are guaranteed to have a first rounder this year or next.

[BETCATS]

So basically today the summary is:

In: Tyrus
Theo

Out: Flip
Acie
1st round pick
2nd round pick


Thoughts? Id give us a B++

[Wolfpackbobcat]

thank god hansbrough wasnt involved

[Weezy21]

R we ever going to have a pick again? lol....but whatever

bobcats r turning into the panthers...completely ruining draft day for me

[ammofan]

So basically today the summary is:

In: Tyrus
Theo

Out: Flip
Acie
1st round pick
2nd round pick


Thoughts? Id give us a B++


I give an A-...........We got exactly what we needed. Theo was just brought in to fill for all of our injuries aat center. But who knows, maybe he will pull a Nazr and play well at the age of 70

[BETCATS]

Final roster (supposing the Indy trade wont happen)

Tyson/Nazr/Diop/Theo
Tyrus/Diaw/UPS
Wallace/Graham/UPS
Jackson/Graham/Henderson
Felton/DJ

[ammofan]

bobcats r turning into the panthers...completely ruining draft day for me

Thats a very good comparrison my friend! lol

[Keetch]

So (the rumor) the Spurs trade No One of Value (Theo) to the Bobcats for a 2nd Round pick. Last years 2nd Rounder by the Spurs was Blair. Nice.

The Spurs know what they're doing.

..but just a rumor.

[tamburello]

I really wonder what the majority expects from Tyrus Thomas. Do you regard him as a poor man's Amare or something? If we needed an athletic PF, what about Stromile Swift or Marcus Haislip? I bet they would be able to do the same things with Tyrus.

I'm with Mr. spectre all the way. The QO amount is huge, no way will we extend him QO, he will be an unrestricted free agent as we keep his Bird rights but whatever... There is a strong chance that we are trading our 1st rounder for nothing. I also wonder what kind of a pick it is as we already owe 1 more pick to Wolves.

I also see no reason why Bulls would waive Flip, he's a valuable bench scorer and would be crucial in playoffs.

[Fred Williamson]

I really wonder what the majority expects from Tyrus Thomas. Do you regard him as a poor man's Amare or something? If we needed an athletic PF, what about Stromile Swift or Marcus Haislip? I bet they would be able to do the same things with Tyrus.

I'm with Mr. spectre all the way. The QO amount is huge, no way will we extend him QO, he will be an unrestricted free agent as we keep his Bird rights but whatever... There is a strong chance that we are trading our 1st rounder for nothing. I also wonder what kind of a pick it is as we already owe 1 more pick to Wolves.

I also see no reason why Bulls would waive Flip, he's a valuable bench scorer and would be crucial in playoffs.

This.

I already said it twice, we would have been fine if we signed Stromile Swift or some other athletic power forward from the D-league.
I'll take valuable scoring off the bench and a draft pick, over a guy who seems to be a smaller, less injury prone version of Tyson freaking Chandler.

[westbrook08]

Just a few thoughts on today.Absolutely love the tyrus deal.Don't mind theo either because if nothing else he gives us shot blocking in limited minutes off the bench.I wouldn't worry about the draft picks because we are not going to have the money to sign any draft picks anyway the next few years.However,for everyone saying that we gave up a first rounder for a 30 game rental i disagree.Tyrus has a 6.3 million qualifying offer next year but it is very possible if he sees an opportunity here that we could lower that by signing him for the mid-level over the next 3 or four years.And also don't discount the fact that ray really wants to be in charlotte and if we pay him fair value I could easily see ray taking a back loaded contract so that some of these large expirings can come off the books in the next year or two.Overall I would say we are in a very good situation.

[Ampsportsduo]

I wouldn't be surprised to see the QO get picked up. It's a little more than a midlevel exemption and Thomas still has a high ceiling. Don't forget the team will have approx. $20 million in expirings to trade next season. They will only need to be under the luxury tax at the end of the year.

[teej]

I wouldn't be surprised to see the QO get picked up. It's a little more than a midlevel exemption and Thomas still has a high ceiling. Don't forget the team will have approx. $20 million in expirings to trade next season. They will only need to be under the luxury tax at the end of the year.

Try telling that to spectre and ohara. :rolleyes:

I've been trying for weeks...

[TheLegend]

I'm really excited about this trade! I just heard it when I was watching ESPN at lunch and I heard someone said "Go Bobcats!" lol it was great.

EDIT: Just read about the indy trade. I rather us try to get Hibbert for our center.

[teej]

Bonnell confirms it was a second rounder, future of course.

http://blogs.charlotte.com/inside_the_nba/2010/02/ratliff-for-a-future-2ndrounder.html

[Ampsportsduo]

Am I the only one excited about the variety of front court lineups we can put on the court? Imagining Wallace, UPS, and TT on the court at the same time has me stoked.

[tamburello]

Then you also have to convince me that we are not robbed, we are not saving the Paxson's ass (I know he's not in charge now) for a ludicrous trade in which he traded away LaMarcus Aldridge for Tyrus, Mr. Teej :)

Who knows what will happen 2011? What about Felton's FA situation this summer, do you think we can retain him without going over luxury tax? Who said that Tyrus worths MLE type money, not even 6.4 million????

[teej]

Then you also have to convince me that we are not robbed, we are not saving the Paxson's ass for a ludicrous trade in which he traded away LaMarcus Aldridge for Tyrus, Mr. Teej :)

Who knows what will happen 2011? What about Felton's FA situation this summer, do you think we can retain him without going over luxury tax? Who said that Tyrus worths MLE type money, not even 6.4 million????

This has nothing to Paxson, he can't be saved for that trade.

We will go over the tax if we re-sign Ray, at least temporarily. And no one said Tyrus was worth MLE money, this is his 30-game audition. If it works out, we have our man. If not, then he walks, and we took a gamble and failed.

Think of it this way. We just took Tyrus with our number one pick. It's just a shorter period of boom or bust. We're able to keep him next year if we want to. It's on us.

[westbrook08]

Ok.First of all like it has been said before.Ray wants to be in charlotte.I don't think it is unreasonable to think something can be worked out.As for tyrus.I hate to have to be the one to tell you but 6'10 power forwards who can rebound,block shots,play 2 positions,and jump out of the gym will generally get 5.5 million(the mid level exception) even if they haven't completely full filled there potential yet.And Lastly we don't have to be under the luxury tax until the end of next season.And seeing as how we have over 20 million in expirings next year.I'm sure we can figure something out.

[Ampsportsduo]

The luxury tax is computed until the July after the season, so if the team needs to get under the threshold they will have time to do so. Again, the $20 million in expiring contracts can certainly help in that regard and there's absolutely no reason to suspect this team won't be active trading next season. With LB as the head coach, everyone should expect that trades will be made to make the team better for the near term. Both trades today did that.

I believe that having LB at head coach gives the team a better chance to win than whoever will be coming in behind him. For no other reason, I don't have an issue with these trades.

[tamburello]

This has nothing to Paxson, he can't be saved for that trade.

We will go over the tax if we re-sign Ray, at least temporarily. And no one said Tyrus was worth MLE money, this is his 30-game audition. If it works out, we have our man. If not, then he walks, and we took a gamble and failed.

Think of it this way. We just took Tyrus with our number one pick. It's just a shorter period of boom or bust. We're able to keep him next year if we want to. It's on us.

Apparently you think we are too rich to give away picks to play gambles. But I think we have already wasted all of our chances to dump picks on "potentials". We might have the worst drafting record ever, especially on potential players.

I know luxury tax would be calculated after July. But I believe you forget something. In order to dump contracts to teams under salary cap and get yourself under luxury tax limit, you also have to give them picks or assets. Remember salary dumping trades, remember Eric Maynor trade, Ronnie Brewer trade, 3 years ago Kurt Thomas trade for example (Sonics acquired two 1st round picks from Suns only to absorb Thomas) And you know what we're doing now, yes, we are running out of picks.

Just let me foresee a trade one year from now:

Bobcats trade Nazr Mohammed and DJ Augustin to (fill in the blanks) for the rights to (an international player who will probably never come to NBA)

This is NBA, where wasting two first round picks in one deal happens..

I'm sorry but IMHO this trade will help us neither at the moment nor in the future.

[WarioVsMooChicken]

Sign a guard to the team and I am one happy guy.

Dontelllll Jefferson?

[Ampsportsduo]

In order to dump contracts to teams under salary cap and get yourself under luxury tax limit, you also have to give them picks or assets.

While you cited some examples there are plenty of examples of teams just wanting to create cap space for the off-season. Even if the team rides the contracts out, the team will have cap space. Neither scenario has to be the negative you seem to be suggesting.

Just let me foresee a trade one year from now:


Bobcats trade Nazr Mohammed and DJ Augustin to (fill in the blanks) for the rights to (an international player who will probably never come to NBA)

Which trade the team has made has resembled this? For the record, this trade gives the salary cap relief that would get the team under the tax without giving up an pick or an asset (yea I said it about DJ).


I'm sorry but IMHO this trade will help us neither at the moment nor in the future.

Not sure why you think adding an athletic PF that the team needs won't help.

[teej]

We might have the worst drafting record ever

So picks don't really matter then, do they?


I know luxury tax would be calculated after July. But I believe you forget something. In order to dump contracts to teams under salary cap and get yourself under luxury tax limit, you also have to give them picks or assets. Remember salary dumping trades, remember Eric Maynor trade, Ronnie Brewer trade, 3 years ago Kurt Thomas trade for example (Sonics acquired two 1st round picks from Suns only to absorb Thomas) And you know what we're doing now, yes, we are running out of picks.

A) Maynor trade was due to Harpring being a useless asset. Our expirings, especially Nazzy, are useful.

B) The price for Thomas was so high because the Suns give out draft picks like candy

C) I honestly believe MJ would be willing to pay a little tax money. We're only really talking a total of 10 million difference here, for what is probably playoffs or no playoffs, which would probably totally recoup that money if not more. And Postolos would make this whole conversation irrelevant, only GW and Jack would be around, if that.

[teej]

Dontelllll Jefferson?

YESSSSSS

Immediately if not sooner.

How often can you get a guy for the minimum who is in his athletic prime and knows Larry Brown's offense while being called up from the D-League?

DO IT NOW!

[Black]

we traded for ratliff? what else did i miss?

[tamburello]

While you cited some examples there are plenty of examples of teams just wanting to create cap space for the off-season. Even if the team rides the contracts out, the team will have cap space. Neither scenario has to be the negative you seem to be suggesting.
Of course some teams will want to create cap space and try to arrange deals with us. But won't we take something back? Clearing capspace means sending long-term contracts. And with long contracts, how will we get under luxury tax? By the way, you continously talk about 2011. Absolutely no offense to you but f..k 2011. Very probably a lock-out will be effective in 2011, nobody knows what will happen.


Which trade the team has made has resembled this? For the record, this trade gives the salary cap relief that would get the team under the tax without giving up an pick or an asset (yea I said it about DJ).
On December 22, 2009, Eric Maynor, along with Matt Harpring, was traded to the Oklahoma City Thunder for the rights to Peter Fehse.

Whether DJ is not an asset or not is just another matter. I just wanted to put a name, you can put a future 1st rounder or a player, doesn't matter. I think my argument is clear.


Not sure why you think adding an athletic PF that the team needs won't help.

I have to admit that at this point I was a little harsh and unfair to TT. He might help us a little for the rest of the season.

[spectre]

Well said Tam.

Most of the time you're going to have to give up assets to move salary. As Tam said Ronnie Brewer...a starter for a playoff team...just got traded for cap relief. Camby was another great example (he could play too).

We screw up the picks, but that doesn't mean they're not worth having.

Hopefully he'll help us get into the playoffs. Even better would be he suddenly "gets it" and he becomes worth a 4th overall pick and be worth the QO.

It's still a big risk after the "now" and will most assuredly cause some hard choices in the near future.

[teej]

By the way, you continously talk about 2011. Absolutely no offense to you but f..k 2011. Very probably a lock-out will be effective in 2011, nobody knows what will happen.

Which clears our salary problems for us, and just enhances the need to

WIN NOW

[tamburello]

So picks don't really matter then, do they?
The fact that we cannot use picks efficiently shouldn't result in giving them away as candies as you stated below.


A) Maynor trade was due to Harpring being a useless asset. Our expirings, especially Nazzy, are useful.
Doesn't matter. Absolutely doesn't matter. Nowadays almost all trades are financial trades and Nazr is no different from Harpring or Josh Howard in that respect.


B) The price for Thomas was so high because the Suns give out draft picks like candy
I really couldn't understand what your point is here. Blame my poor understanding in English.


C) I honestly believe MJ would be willing to pay a little tax money. We're only really talking a total of 10 million difference here, for what is probably playoffs or no playoffs, which would probably totally recoup that money if not more. And Postolos would make this whole conversation irrelevant, only GW and Jack would be around, if that.

He would be willing but he's not Jerry Buss or James Dolan or Mark Cuban. I am not a multi-millionaire, so I cannot make any comments about how it feels to lose $10 million.
------
I really hate answering one by one, and my bed time is almost here. All I wish now is you would be right, TT would be helpful in both short and long term. I wish you all a good evening, see you later..

[teej]

^Agree to disagree on that tamb. G'night.

Here's Simmons take.


sportsguy33 (http://twitter.com/sportsguy33)
(http://twitter.com/sportsguy33)
Charlotte's trade for Ty Thomas was sneaky-good. Tons of "just needs a change of scenery" potential + top-3 lottery pedigree. Liked it.
(http://twitter.com/sportsguy33)

[ohara831]

Well said Tam.

Most of the time you're going to have to give up assets to move salary. As Tam said Ronnie Brewer...a starter for a playoff team...just got traded for cap relief. Camby was another great example (he could play too).

We screw up the picks, but that doesn't mean they're not worth having.

Hopefully he'll help us get into the playoffs. Even better would be he suddenly "gets it" and he becomes worth a 4th overall pick and be worth the QO.

It's still a big risk after the "now" and will most assuredly cause some hard choices in the near future.


Hard choices in the future is right. Ray has surely improved this season, I agree. Now,what it TT all of a sudden finishes the next 30 games avg a double double for us. Keep one? Keep both and pay the Luxury? Not sure what will happen.

[ALong13]

I like both trades...Ratliff may be up there in age, but he recently showed he could still score and put up a 15 point game. Ratliff is better offensively than Diop and can also play some at PF. I expect Diaw to play some back-up SF as well as Brown, Ratliff could see a boost in minutes in Charlotte. He's also an experienced veteran and could be key if we land a playoff spot

[teej]

Keep both and pay the Luxury?

Yes.

That is all :biggrin:

[Ampsportsduo]

Of course some teams will want to create cap space and try to arrange deals with us. But won't we take something back? Clearing capspace means sending long-term contracts. And with long contracts, how will we get under luxury tax? By the way, you continously talk about 2011. Absolutely no offense to you but f..k 2011. Very probably a lock-out will be effective in 2011, nobody knows what will happen.

We would take something back, but there's no reason to suggest that what we receive will be of zero value. The expiring contracts we traded this year were Raja, Flip, and Acie. We netted Stephen Jackson and Tyrus. Stephen is definitely an asset and Tyrus should be. Yes, we gave up a pick in the TT trade, but that was because more teams were interested.

I don't feel that I've been harping on 2011, just pointing out that we can use the expirings to acquire either assets or cap space going into the next season. I have no particular fascination with 2011.


On December 22, 2009, Eric Maynor, along with Matt Harpring, was traded to the Oklahoma City Thunder for the rights to Peter Fehse.

My question was when have the Bobcats made a move like this. There are certainly some owners that are willing to sacrifice success (Suns owner) for cap relief, but none of the Cats moves have been in this mold.

[Zoolander]

The only way I see this trade working is if TT starts over Boris. Boris could be, and I use this very loosely, our replacement for flip off the bench. He could provide instant offense in a 6th man type roll. He just isn't consistent enough IMO to be a starter. Loosing Flip hurts. Hopefully Hendo can get some increased PT and develop quickly, because we are going to need his defense with only DJ left at point. I cringe when ever I see DJ trying to guard anyone...

[Demon DeaCat]

I've challenged the notion that we've overpaid in some previous trades, but I kinda think we did overpay on this one. We just gave the Bulls an equally productive, if not slightly more productive player than the one we got back, and gave them a first round pick to boot, to say nothing of Law's $2 mil expiring. As desperate as they were to move Thomas, they shouldn't get a double-digit scorer AND our 1st. I would have offered a 2nd or no deal.

Further, after trading Salmons their backcourt offense was really limited. I think we definitely would have been able to create some separation with them. By giving them Flip, we might well have given them the piece they needed to stay ahead of us.

This just seems like an awfully big gamble for a guy that may or may not ever live up to his potential. And the thing is, I don't think our chances to make the playoffs are significantly better after this trade than before. Flip was a big part of why we're .500 right now.

[Demon DeaCat]

Loosing Flip hurts. Hopefully Hendo can get some increased PT and develop quickly, because we are going to need his defense with only DJ left at point. I cringe when ever I see DJ trying to guard anyone...


Henderson hasn't played all year. We don't even know if he can. I don't see us throwing him out there in middle of a playoff race. This likely means more DJ/Raymond combos in the backcourt. That worked better than I thought it would last year, but DJ was playing a lot better then. Maybe more consistent minutes will build some confidence and get him back on track. But then there are concerns of his defense, which you mentioned. All the more reason trading Flip is questionable.

[ALong13]

Not sure if it really matters or not to anyone, but looks like Thomas will wear #24 in Charlotte just like he did in Chicago...not sure about Ratliff

[spectre]

Copied off Bonnell's blog from Hollinger:



"San Antonio trades Theo Ratliff to Charlotte for a conditional second-round pick.

Spurs: A straight salary dump by the Spurs, who weren't playing Ratliff and, as a tax-paying team likely to finish out of the money, needed to cut money any way they reasonably could. As with most trades of this type, the draft pick is an accounting convention to satisfy league rules that something be traded by each side, and the conditions are severe enough that it's unlikely to ever be realized. Grade: B

Bobcats: The Bobcats are worried about the health of Nazr Mohammed and Tyson Chandler, but Larry Brown's history with Ratliff leaves one worried that Brown might actually play him even if his other bigs are healthy. That's why I gave Charlotte only a C. Otherwise it's a solid move by a team trying like crazy to make its first-ever playoff appearance. Grade: C"



Ouch!

Good about the pick though.

[Keetch]

lol "...Brown might actually play him...." I bet he will if Theo's healthy. Of course, play Theo 10 games in a row and he'll no longer BE healthy. But by then Diop and Nazr will be better.

[teej]

Wizards guard Mike James has been granted an indefinite leave by the team in anticipation of a buyout, according to team sources.

The Wizards held onto James through Thursday in the event that his $6.6 million expiring contract might be included in a trade.

The parties are now expected to negotiate a buyout settlement before March 1 that will make James eligible to play in the playoffs with his next team.

James, 34, has appeared in only four games this season for the Wizards, but he started 50 games for Washington last season after arriving in a trade with New Orleans, averaging 9.6 points and 3.6 assists.

Cleveland and Miami are among the teams that have monitored James’ situation in Washington in hopes that he would eventually become an in-season free agent. It’s believed that Charlotte is an eventual landing spot for James after he played for Bobcats coach Larry Brown in Detroit when the Pistons won the championship in 2004.



Guess that beats Dontell.

[spectre]

Don't we still have another roster spot? Seems another of LB's "boys" is going to be available...Kenny Thomas is being waived:

http://basketball.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/64864/20100218/kings_request_waiver_on_thomas/

Edit:


Cleveland and Miami are among the teams that have monitored James’ situation in Washington in hopes that he would eventually become an in-season free agent. It’s believed that Charlotte is an eventual landing spot for James after he played for Bobcats coach Larry Brown in Detroit when the Pistons won the championship in 2004.



Nice find Teej!

[ziggy]

This has been an amazing thread and an absolutely wild day.

Trying to sneak and follow this thread at work during meetings via cellphone has been a challenge, let me tell ya :biggrin:

I give the Bobcats a B- for their work today, it would be a solid B+ if not for the 1st round pick.

Thomas gives us a rebounding, shot blocking, defensive presence that Doris can't or won't give us.

We lose some with Flip ( maybe he was one of the ball stoppers that Larry griped about :g: ) BUT it should open up more minutes for DJ and Henderson, which in my opinion is a very good thing.

and to top it off we picked up even more post depth with Ratliff for basically nothing.


For what its worth, today gets the Ziggy seal of approval.

[teej]

Yeah Spectre, we need a guard, not a forward.

And Zig, this is for sure a HOF thread as soon as the recovery team finishes up with the remains of a collective 500 years of BCP members lives.

[ziggy]

And Zig, this is for sure a HOF thread as soon as the recovery team finishes up with the remains of a collective 500 years of BCP members lives.

Absolutely Hall of Fame worthy.
We'll give it a day or two to die down, then we'll move it over there.

[ALong13]

Wizards guard Mike James has been granted an indefinite leave by the team in anticipation of a buyout, according to team sources.

The Wizards held onto James through Thursday in the event that his $6.6 million expiring contract might be included in a trade.

The parties are now expected to negotiate a buyout settlement before March 1 that will make James eligible to play in the playoffs with his next team.

James, 34, has appeared in only four games this season for the Wizards, but he started 50 games for Washington last season after arriving in a trade with New Orleans, averaging 9.6 points and 3.6 assists.

Cleveland and Miami are among the teams that have monitored James’ situation in Washington in hopes that he would eventually become an in-season free agent. It’s believed that Charlotte is an eventual landing spot for James after he played for Bobcats coach Larry Brown in Detroit when the Pistons won the championship in 2004.

-ESPN

We all know Larry Brown would prefer 3 PG on his roster, a veteran who knows Larry's system, hasn't played this much as Flip Saunders has kept him out pretty much the whole season. Averaged 9.6 ppg 3.6 apg for the Wizards last season though...

He'd give us the veteran leadership we need, but I still think the energy of Dontell Jefferson would be a better fit

[ALuhrs704]

i hate that we lost flip, but i feel like his role can be taken by DJ to an extent. but honestly this finally gives us that 4 that larry wanted. is athletic, long, and can defend as well as score. i cant see us finishing worse then 6th and i cant wait for the playoffs barring injury!

[dnbman]

Absolutely Hall of Fame worthy.
We'll give it a day or two to die down, then we'll move it over there.

Well, if that's the case, I need to be a part of this.

I'm excited about Thomas.

I'm a little scared about our financial future, which was already a bit scary.

Should be a dunk-a-thon to finish the season.

James for the veteran minimum would be huge.

[ALuhrs704]

and is anyone as happy as me that we DID NOT make that indiana trade? that had bad news written all over it.......... im excited as hell now for this last portion of the season. i think the trade deadline for nba should be a national holiday!

[ALong13]

and is anyone as happy as me that we DID NOT make that indiana trade? that had bad news written all over it.......... im excited as hell now for this last portion of the season. i think the trade deadline for nba should be a national holiday!

Lol I'm happy from a financial standpoint, I wouldn't have minded getting Brandon Rush as I think he would have been a good player off the bench, but not TJ Ford, definitely if he was going to extend his 8.6 million dollar option...if Ford would have agreed to waive that then I wouldn't have minded it so bad...Plus I didn't want to lose Nazr

EDIT: Also the pick we gave the Bulls is a protected draft pick and the earliest it could go into effect is 2012 meaning if we lost this yours pick to the Wolves, we'd still have the 2011 1st round pick.

DOUBLE EDIT: The League has just accepted the Theo Ratliff trade and has been added to the Bobcats roster, he'll wear #42

[Muttley]

For starters:
Thank you, to those who've contributed to this thread today. It's been a real task trying to read it all while sneaking into my office for small breaks between meetings and teaching today. You are all awesome. (Yes, you too ballwhore...)

My take (no real new opinion): I'm okay with Thomas, but I don't really like giving up Flip and a future 1st. I'll get over it.

I am a little concerned about the financial implications, but Amp's kinda eased my mind a little on that. I hope you and Teej are right, though.

One thought about that:
Maybe MJ is raising the salary costs to scare off Postolos. Maybe?

Totally cool with Theo coming here, because EVERY SINGLE CENTER we have on the roster is injured.

Looking forward to Friday.

[ohara831]

For our friends in NY, Chicago and elsewhere - I hope this makes you groan!

http://basketball.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/64866/20100218/lebron_i_dont_think_too_much_about_teams_clearing_ cap_space/

[rsxnova]

We could have stood pat and signed Kenny Thomas:facepalm:. Anyway, i am happy to know the stipulation on those draft picks. Come on TT, you da man.

[ammofan]

I would like to pick up Mike James.......He'd be a good signing for vet. leadership off the bench down the stretch

[SWedd523]

Again, Theo Ratliff is damn near useless. Crotchety old fart is like 68 years old and I seriously thought he retired about 5 years ago. Yawn

[Dcarnys]

But is he better then Diop or Lexy?

If Theo is i'm cool with it.

[WarioVsMooChicken]

It's the new Othella Harrington!

[x2pacalypse]

so i don't think im capable of reading 38 pages as i have a huge paper due tomorrow i havent started on about global warming or something, so does anybody want to tell me if we ended up losing or gaining cap space out of this?

[ALong13]

nba.com is reporting the draft pick for Theo Ratliff is a Protected 2016 2nd round pick...not sure how its protected, but with the way protected picks often go, it may not be used til 2020...

[ALong13]

so i don't think im capable of reading 38 pages as i have a huge paper due tomorrow i havent started on about global warming or something, so does anybody want to tell me if we ended up losing or gaining cap space out of this?

Depends...If Thomas is re-signed as he's a restricted free agent then we lose money next year, if we let him go or do some type of sign and trade we lose nothing, Theo Ratliff is an expiring contract, the draft picks we give up are 2012 protected 1st round pick and a 2016 protected 2nd round pick...as I said in the previous post it could be 2-3 years before those picks are even used...

[ziggy]

nba.com is reporting the draft pick for Theo Ratliff is a Protected 2016 2nd round pick...not sure how its protected, but with the way protected picks often go, it may not be used til 2020...

2016 ?!?!?

Aren't we all supposed to careen into the center of the sun in 2012? If that's the case then I guess we got Ratliff for free. :biggrin:

[King Taharqa]

Welcome to Charlotte Theo & Tyrus. If we can get our other bigs healthy, our front court is gonna be alot better.

[Slam]

We could have stood pat and signed Kenny Thomas:facepalm:.
I tend to agree with this.

In saying that, the flip side is that we could also have traded DJ for Kenny Thomas too - so looking at it that way we haven't done too bad.

[teej]

Tyrus Thomas interview with a Chicago reporter, from Bonnell's blog



(Thoughts on being traded?)

"It’s part of the business. I talked to (Bulls management) and thanked them both and the Bulls organization for giving me my opportunity to take my first steps in the NBA. I learned a lot here.''

(What did you learn?)

"How to be a professional. How to handle adversity. How to be prepared for whenever your number is called.''

(You think different atmosphere can help you?)

"Um, yeah. I think that a lot of people have a perception of me based on what they read instead of giving me the opportunity to show the real me. Different scenery for me can be real good.''

(Have you talked to Charlotte people yet?)

"I talked to them. They’re excited to have me. I’m thrilled they’re excited. Today was just more logistics about getting me there in time to play tomorrow. I’m sure tomorrow I’ll sit down with Coach Brown and get into some detail.''

(When you look back on time in Chicago, what stands out favorably or unfavorably?)

"The good thing about it is good or bad I have a habit of learning from everything that happens. However you want to take it, I learned a lot from my time in Chicago. The way the business works, the way the game should be played, the way to overcome mistakes.''

(What are you most proud of?)

"That I developed as a player and contributed in playoff games.''

(Anything you want to say to Chicago fans?)

"I thank them so much for their support and for them being behind me the whole time I was there. I’m truly going to miss them. They always had my back. They’re some of the greatest fans in any sport any where. Win, lose or draw, we had 20,000 fans every night."


Sounds like a good guy who didn't want to come off like a jerk but is glad to be gone.

[Muttley]

Tyrus Thomas interview with a Chicago reporter, from Bonnell's blog



Sounds like a good guy who didn't want to come off like a jerk but is glad to be gone.
Right on. I hope to see him tomorrow!

No way he starts tomorrow, unless Brown thinks he can teach him the ropes in a single morning sit-down (LB knows that won't work), but he should see a bunch of minutes.

Oh, the athleticism on this team! The 2nd unit should be interesting tomorrow night: DJ-Henderson-UPS-Thomas-Chandler? Quick as hell! (That may not be the actual line-up, of course, Graham will probably get a bunch of back-up PT and, as we know, Crash plays for both 1st and 2nd units.)

[teej]

Bonnell's article is up

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/bobcats/story/1257697.html

Asked about Thomas' past, Brown said, "We'll show the kid he's important to us and we really want to help him. We'll all have to grow up sometime.''

Thomas' beef with Del Negro was about limited minutes, and that shouldn't be an issue in Charlotte, where Brown has pleaded all season for help at power forward. As general manager Rod Higgins described, "he'll have an opportunity right away.''

[teej]

Oh, the athleticism on this team! The 2nd unit should be interesting tomorrow night: DJ-Henderson-UPS-Thomas-Chandler? Quick as hell!

I'm guessing Theo will be the backup center and Chandler will sit out, with Nazr starting. Tyrus and Boris can always play the 5 in a pinch.

[Muttley]

I'm guessing Theo will be the backup center and Chandler will sit out, with Nazr starting. Tyrus and Boris can always play the 5 in a pinch.
Good call. For a moment there, I let myself forget about all the injuries...

[Dcarnys]

Ill be honest with you, Im really looking foward to seeing Tyrus and Theo play. Probably won't start Tyrus tommorow but Im sure he will play. theo probably won't play tommorow though.

[teej]

theo probably won't play tommorow though.

With Gana out for sure, Chandler doubtful, and Nazr questionable, I don't see why he wouldn't...

[Muttley]

Ill be honest with you, Im really looking foward to seeing Tyrus and Theo play. Probably won't start Tyrus tommorow but Im sure he will play. theo probably won't play tommorow though.
I'm thinking Theo's playing if he can make it to town, based on our injuries. (as Teej said)

I'm with you, though. I'm looking forward to it as well. Should at least be more interesting than that EFFING nets game.

[WarioVsMooChicken]

2016 draft pick?

Talk about building for the future

[teej]

2016 draft pick?

Talk about building for the future

That's when my little brother is a freshman in college. So his class' John Wall/Derrick Rose.

Who is currently 12.

[teej]

http://www.nba.com/bobcats/higgins_brown_trade_100218.html



BOBCATS HEAD COACH LARRY BROWN
On how Tyrus Thomas fills a dramatic need in the Bobcats froncourt
Well, one, with Acie, hopefully he'll get a chance to play since we really didn't have an opportunity here. And then, you know, Flip was somebody we didn't want to lose, but we tried everything we could to try to keep him, but at the end of the day he was a big part of it, the Bulls deal, so that was tough. But all year we've been struggling to have a replacement for Boris (Diaw). We've been playing Gerald (Wallace) at 4, and we didn't really think that was fair to him,and now he can kind of settle on one position. And you know Tyrus, he's like getting a lottery pick in my mind. A young big kid that's got a huge upside, and he fills a lot of needs for us.

On the questions about Thomas' attitude
Well Lindsey Hunter and I are close, and Lindsey's been with the kid a couple years, and I was with Yannick Noah this summer. They both had great things to say about the kid. A lot of young kids are sometimes a little bit immature or trying to realize how to handle a situation, and that's my job. We've got a great locker room, we've got some really good leadership, and I have to think our coaches, myself, Rod and Michael (Jordan) will show the kid that he's important to us and try to help him with this whole process because he's still very, very young and we all gotta grow up sometime.

On if injuries played a part in getting Theo Ratliff
There are a lot of things going on, and when I saw Nazr's back problem and Gana's situation and Tyson's history… It's nice having great relationships in this league because (San Antonio Spurs Head Coach) Greg Popovich and R.C. really helped us out. I love Theo, and know what he's about. He's meant a lot to me in my career, and I still think he has some basketball in him, and he gives us a lot of things that I think we can take advantage of. He's long, can block shots, is good in the locker room and can mentor a lot of these young kids.


Also a vid from Rod on there.

[SWedd523]

I'm thinking the Ratliff trade was pursued after we completed the TT trade. Brown probably brought him in to "mentor" Thomas and help him grow

[GoBobs]

The guy we need Ratlif to mentor is AA. Somebody like that will be good for all our young guys though.

[Marvel]

I'm happy with TT here i think it was probably the best move we could have made realistically, good trade

[TheBeagle]

Just finished reading all 40 pages, and let me say, it was an honor! This was great stuff, and I hate I wasn't able to take part in it, but because this one's destined for the HOF, I figure I ought to mark my scent for posterity's sake.
When I woke up (at 6 this evening...yeah, crazyass schedule) I saw the Thomas deal and was upset to see Flip and a future 1st involved. In fact, first thought that came to mind was spectre's avatar. After thinking things through and listening to some folks, and reading articles and y'alls posts, I'm not nearly as befuddled, though I think the lollipop factor is still appropriate. The fact of the matter is, in general, this franchise doesn't 1. Make wise 1st round draft selections and 2. sign bigtime talent via FA. The FO acquire talent via trades, so in those terms, the future 1st for Thomas could possibly be a wise investment, which is contingent, of course, on how his "audition" goes. And even if it goes poorly, he's an expiring, and the pick is protected to boot.

[tamburello]

Well, when teams make salary dump, they do not tend to acquire something back. So very probably we will not give a second round pick to Spurs in 2016. These kind of picks are generally top-55 protected or something, they are just given to complete the deal.

You know my thoughts about trades, but I should admit that some other trades that I hated in the past have worked out well for us (Jackson, J. Richardson etc.) I hope Tyrus Thomas could be effective and meets the expectations here.

[TheBeagle]

...continued from above
So, basically, I'm more than fine with acquiring a solid player as he is, with great potential at a position of dire, oh so dire, need for the equivalent of a mid rounder in a future draft. Unless Thomas is a complete dick, or has somehow regressed from games that I've seen him play (especially against the Cats) in which he can consistently knock down jumpers from 11 or so feet in, run the court, rebound, and most definitely block shots, his addition automatically makes us a better team, even with the loss of Flip.
And yeah, getting Ratliff for nothing was a really good move. Like others have said, if nothing else, he can act in a Juwan Howard-like mentor role, and he is an upgrade over Chandler, so there's that. The only thing is, how will he and UPS get along after their "altercation" down in SA back in December? LOL I bet Theo doesn't even remeber the flagrant he put on Derrick.
Anyway, I'm pretty pleased with the talent brought in today, and think it will provide needed energy

[ohara831]

If we are able to resign TT, then I would consider the trade good. I just hate giving up that 1st if he is only a 30 day rental. But if he likes it here, likes his teammates and likes learning under LB, then there is a good chance he will resign.

[spectre]

If we are able to resign TT, then I would consider the trade good. I just hate giving up that 1st if he is only a 30 day rental. But if he likes it here, likes his teammates and likes learning under LB, then there is a good chance he will resign.

Ditto.

1) We QO him and match any offers...and I seriously doubt if anyone will offer him over 6.3 million. With our expirings in TC and Nazr we hope that we can somehow dump as much as we can before next year's deadline.

2) We don't offer the QO, but have an unspoken (not sure of league rules here) agreement that we want him, he wants to be here and we'll give him a competitive multi year deal.

3) We don't offer the QO, it pisses him off and takes the best offer out of Charlotte. 30 day rental for a 1st round pick.

Not going to dwell on this anymore. Right now we're concerned with THIS season and I want that 5th spot (I really want 4th, but whatever). TT is going to help that. If we bring in James to help alleviate losing Flip then I think we'll see a resurgence and strong push til the end.

ILBIT and good trade.

[JamieMcNeill]

Well, when teams make salary dump, they do not tend to acquire something back. So very probably we will not give a second round pick to Spurs in 2016. These kind of picks are generally top-55 protected or something, they are just given to complete the deal.

You know my thoughts about trades, but I should admit that some other trades that I hated in the past have worked out well for us (Jackson, J. Richardson etc.) I hope Tyrus Thomas could be effective and meets the expectations here.
This

I was reading reviews of the trade and basically the second we gave up is soooooo protected that they will most likely never get it. It was pure salary dump

[ohara831]

I really hope we grab James once he is free. That would be solid protection for the PG position for the rest of the year. It is going to be exciting, and it starts tonight! Time to beat up on a King and let TT rough up Jamison.

[CarolinaBlue704]

I don't have time to type out all my thoughts on the trade at the moment.But overall I'm very pleased.

Can't wait to see what TT brings to the table.I believe he will give us a lot of flexibility to try different lineups.

[ammofan]

So I wonder what the starting lineup will be tonight? If all of our center are out, then maybe

Felton
Jack
Crash
TT
Meow

??

[Muttley]

Bonnell's Blog reports that Nazr and TC are both saying that they're feeling better. Not sure how much better they actually are, but I'm thinking that LB still matches Nazr up with Shaq when possible. No doubt that TT gets a good bit of PT guarding Jamison and Hickson, though.

[Black]

i know its only one game, but wow....we looked like a better team

[murphman]

OK, I'll just go ahead and say it, I want the #8 seed if the Cavs finish 1st. Talk about ownage!

[French_Cats]

DeSagana Diop (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=992) $6,031,800 :facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:

I'm going to put a gun in the locker room DeSagana Diop after we cut the contract diop ok ?
http://www.basketusa.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/diop.jpg:facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::f acepalm::facepalm:

Larry brown :facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm: :facepalm:
6,031,800 $$$$ :facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm: :facepalm:

[Fred Williamson]

You know what's even more sad? He gets paid 6million dollars for exactly doing that, what he's doing on the picture right there. Sitting on a chair.