Tyrus Thomas (The Future) [Archive]

Ghost Kat

02-20-2010, 11:38 AM

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3032

I've liked Tyrus since he was at LSU. He's an athletic and active PF. Something the Cats needed badly. He's young and has the ability to be a solid 6th man off the bench, If he doesn't just take Doris starting spot.

Tyrus Thomas like Wallace is a basketball Terminator sent back in time to protect the paint and possibily John Connor if he happens to be in the arena.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6MKVYq1v0I

He's young, likes to play defense and runs the floor. Larry Brown should be able to make a mini superstar out of him. Tyrus Thomas means years of entertainment for this team.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JWUBZgszNg

Slam

02-20-2010, 11:54 AM

http://nerdapproved.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/put-a-lid-on-it.jpg

It's only been ONE game.

Ghost Kat

02-20-2010, 12:01 PM

One game means nothing unless he gets hurt tonight. He fills the exact need this team has been missing. Capt.Jack, Diaw, Raja come in play one good game and the praises start coming, You Debby Dower all those people too?

BRNC

02-20-2010, 12:04 PM

Thomas (for me) is a difficult guy to judge...I thought he was drafted to high when he came out of LSU...he has been immature in the extreme since he has been in the League...and his well documented confrontations with coaches in Chicago have given me a great deal of pause.

He has obvious talent...and I know many will argue that LB is the guy that will turn him around...LB might be here another year...then what? If he ends up being a 30 game rental we vastly overpaid...if he ends up remaining a "head-case" we vastly over-payed...if we end up with Ray walking (for nothing) because we have no money to re-sign him we over-payed...

If (a rather large if) TT shows maturity and starts working within a team concept and contribute up to his potential it will be a good move...but back to the LB side of the equation...

LB has talked to "Doris" (as well as Jax and Crash calling him out) about his role this year and being more aggressive offensively...is it really a surprise that it took a trade (for TT) before he finally (the Cavs game) appears to of responded?

I'm not going to judge TT on one game...but I will hope he becomes the player we all know he can become...and hope we figure out a way to keep Ray (particularly now) and not over-pay since the Knicks (I feel certain) will bring a bushel of money after him...

Weezy21

02-20-2010, 12:19 PM

we dont even have to judge him after last night...if u watched the bulls play, u can still see what he was capable of doing...pissing off del negro didnt help his chances of showcasing all his talents, but like carolinakat said, he's been doing great stuff since his LSU days

i look at him as a combination of wallace an derrick brown...an to me, that is definitely somebody id want on this team, regardless of how raw he might be right now, he still can contribute way more than anything else we have

BRNC

02-20-2010, 12:26 PM

I have no interest in a guy "show-casing" his talents...I'm interested in players that can play team-ball and help us get to and win play-off games...I'm not interested in bone-heads...so again...I did watch TT with the Bulls and I do not know if we have a bone-head only interested in "show-casing" (taking crap shots) or a player that gets team ball...and neither does anyone else...my point is/was time will tell...not one game...I'm all for giving him a chance...

Weezy21

02-20-2010, 12:57 PM

I do not know if we have a bone-head only interested in "show-casing" (taking crap shots) or a player that gets team ball...and neither does anyone else...my point is/was time will tell...not one game...I'm all for giving him a chance...

fair enuff

Scottley Crue

02-20-2010, 12:58 PM

All I know is this...when he blocked a shot and then almost in the next breath took out the courtside seats in an attempt to save the ball, that (along with what I saw of him in Chicago) told me a tremendous amount about him. And I like what it told me.

ND22

02-20-2010, 01:05 PM

I liked what I saw last night, he was hustling, blocking shots, doing the little things, something not enough basketball players at any level do. yeah his shooting percentage sucked, but unless that becomes a consistent problem i have no issue with it.

its one game so obviously we can't say he's "the future" but in one game he's already made an impact.

GoBobs

02-20-2010, 01:20 PM

He is very, very, very talented on D. He is almost like the ying to Gerald Wallaces yang on that end of the floor.

NBA 2k10 player ratings:

Wallace

steal - 89
block - 75

Thomas

steal - 75
block - 90

Currently he is 15th in steals per 48 min but if you take out the guys that have less then 10 steals on the season he is 6th.

He is 13 in blocks per 48 minutes but if you take out guys with less then 10 he is 11th. He is 12 overall in blocks per game.

LB has wanted this guy for a long time and it is easy to see why. I remember when he was with the knicks he said in an interview if they had a pick he would want thomas.

He is gonna have some struggle on offense, but he is already better then Chandler by far. He is not going to be as efficient as Naz, but he is more creative and has a lot more upside. For a guy who give you that much on D his offense is just gravey.

polarcat

02-20-2010, 01:28 PM

agree with nd22. it is one game, but he made a significant contribution. 1 point short of a double double, along with 6 blocks. he hustled and one of the biggest things is how his presence put a fire under diaw's ass big time. that is one of the most complete games i've seen doris put together since being in charlotte. he almost showed a physical side to him rebounding and on the defensive end. t2 was drafted on upside and his biggest knock coming in was maturity and rawness that had to be molded into an nba player. i wouldn't say the coaching or braintrust in chicago helped him the way our coaching staff should. again, one game does not a career in the qc make, but i loved what i saw last night. everyone is entitled to their opinions and some might not be that happy with getting t2 and that's understandable based on his track record. the kid came into the league at 19 and is a young 23 (24 in august). there's still lots of room to develop and it's not like he was touted as a "step right in and dominate the 4" kind of player. his current deficiencies were pointed out during that draft year.

dnbman

02-20-2010, 02:06 PM

docend24

02-20-2010, 03:01 PM

That is easy to explain - we are used to grab any chance of getting better and hope and pray - from the first years of this organization. So we jump on and off and are eager to see any change as an opportuinity or a missed opportunity. But it is not like there is no knowledge of basketball behind it like in cases of superstzar bandwagoners of other teams fanbase sometimes. Another factor is we have no clear star and going the Pistons way, so it is more about how the new guy will fit in than simply is he that good or not - which naturally makes more diversity of points of view and conlusions upon certain players. Add inconsistency prone players and you will get a whole scale of opinions. In addition this team produces some rollecoster rides itself like losing to Nets and winning over Cavs the very next game. So you'll never know, nothing is certain, so we are bound to guess and believe (or not).

Dcarnys

02-20-2010, 03:18 PM

Yhea so far I like Tyrus. I think by having him he is also gonna help Boris out because guess what? There is more then one starting caliber PF on the team now. does it get to that point, I don't know. But i'm liking what i'm seeing.

BRNC

02-20-2010, 05:28 PM

I think Slam's point is one I posted in another thread. It's great to get excited about a player, but we tend to go way overboard in praising our players and cursing our players. We need to realize that this guy is going to have plenty of bad games so that we don't create unreasonable expectations.

I agree...he'll have bad games as all players do...the break I'll give him (as I do with Crash, Jax, and Felts) is does he still play "D" when nothing else works? Has he gained any maturity from a "not so great" start with the Bulls...

We gave up our sixth man (and frankly I was fine with what Flip gave) and a first for this guy...and what little cap-space we would have to re-sign Ray...I want him to do well because we did give up a lot to get him..

Marvel

02-20-2010, 07:16 PM

TT reminds me of a lil bit nicer JR Smith has loads of potential and gifts but his immaturity will always set him back,i'm not saying that's the case with TT but you have to be weary of a guy like TT.........just tread lightly before falling madly in love with him is all

Twan's Kin

02-22-2010, 01:12 AM

Can TT play the 5 position when we need a smaller line-up?

ND22

02-22-2010, 09:23 AM

Can TT play the 5 position when we need a smaller line-up?

I don't see why not, I mean if Doris can play it why can't TT?

polarcat

02-22-2010, 09:46 AM

Can TT play the 5 position when we need a smaller line-up?

i don't think it's ideal, but it can be done with some effect. i didn't see the bucks game, but in the cavs game, t2 and doris looked good. granted, i haven't seen boris play a game like that in a looooong time.

Toocool

02-22-2010, 10:25 AM

He would just replace Doris as the 5. As for Doris, probably either sitting on the bench (can't see LB replacing Doris at 4 instead of Crash/Jax)

spectre

02-22-2010, 10:27 AM

In the first half we game planned for Bogut knowing that Nazr could barely walk (and he did look stiff shooting FTs) and they beat the hell out of us with it.

In the second half...3:52 in the 3rd quarter to be exact...we pulled Theo for TT and played "small" the rest of the game. From that point (20 down) we were able to get it to within 3.

Bogut had 1 made basket against our small ball lineup, but Theo also played him pretty well in the time he was pitted against him.

Was it the difference in lineups or was it about a team up 20 taking their foot off the gas?

We'll have more examples as Felton/Jax/Crash/Boris/TT is probably our best rotation and LB loves going small...but I "think" between the two of Boris & TT they should be able to handle the 4/5 pretty well. With some exceptions of course.

BRNC

02-22-2010, 11:36 AM

I think Naz should have the chance to get his back right...he should not have even played...the "gas" part has merit with me...but we should never have been 20 down to the Bucks at the half...poor first half all the way around...

Demon DeaCat

02-22-2010, 05:06 PM

Don't get me wrong, TT has definitely been solid so far and he will help us, but for what we gave up to get him I feel like he needs to be more than just a solid 6th man. If he's anything less than a highly productive starting PF for us, then I don't think this deal was worth it. The potential for that is there, but it's been there ever since he came into the league. I guess I'm just not super confident that he'll show something with us in 30 games that he hasn't shown with the Bulls for the past 3 1/2 seasons.

dnbman

02-22-2010, 05:33 PM

I guess I'm just not super confident that he'll show something with us in 30 games that he hasn't shown with the Bulls for the past 3 1/2 seasons.

With young players, you just don't know. Portland thought they had little in Jermaine O'Neal. Then we he's allowed to properly develop in Indiana, he becomes an all-star.

All I know is, Tyrus clearly has a lot of tools.

teej

02-22-2010, 06:15 PM

With young players, you just don't know. Portland thought they had little in Jermaine O'Neal. Then we he's allowed to properly develop in Indiana, he becomes an all-star.

All I know is, Tyrus clearly has a lot of tools.

Same with Crash , Theo, Captain Jack, and even somewhat Boris and Tyson. And that's just our team.

BRNC

02-23-2010, 12:27 PM

polarcat

02-23-2010, 12:53 PM

I read a take yesterday on our trade for TT...I think it was one of the ESPN guys...but to paraphrase (and pretty much sums my opinion of TT)...."raw talent and no skills"...and after what three years in the league the guy is still "raw talent and no skills"...yep...

to each his own for opinions, but a 19-year old kid is usually raw talent and the no skills part seems a little severe. if he was drafted at 21 or 22, been in the league for 3 years (which puts him at around 25) that's a little different. T2 will be 24 this summer and needs some polishing. do i think he's going to be a 20-10 guy for us for the next 6-7 years? doubt it. do i think he could be a 15-10 guy for us? possibly. fact is, nobody knows what this kid is going to be. sure as hell not the clowns at espn, me, etc. i'm willing to cut thomas some slack and let him prove that he sucks before i judge him on his merits under the poor mgt in chicago.

spectre

02-23-2010, 01:01 PM

...but was he the correct choice given our situation?

We know we're up against it financially next year, yet we bring in a high risk (cuz we gave up our draft pick, we lost depth at PG/SG AND his QO is over 6 million)/reward that is still a work in progress with only 30 games to evaluate him?

We also might not have LB next season...and if the new management brought in someone not willing to spend the time to develop him then we could be in the same position the Bulls were in.

I like TT, but I've have felt much better about this move if it had happened last summer/beginning of the season.

BRNC

02-23-2010, 01:04 PM

I'm not sure how "severe" noting a guy has raw talent but little-to-no skill set to go with it is...it is more an "observation"...and he (TT) has been in the league long enough that,not only the pundits at ESPN, but many scouts/analysts and fans that watch him have that same opinion...can he develop a skill st to go with the talent? I have no idea...the point is he has not up to this point...I've never been big on giving "breaks" to top five picks from any draft...and after his time (3 years) in the league "raw" is not a part of his description I like...it is not my fault that it fits him...:shrug:

polarcat

02-23-2010, 01:05 PM

i agree with ya spec on the timing sucking big time. the money end of it i think can be worked out during the season next year by moving one of our big contracts (never did figure out the deadline date to be under the luxury tax number). as for flip and acie....meh. honestly, acie was getting zero burn here and was thought of as filler when we got him from golden state. i know i'm in the minority on flip, but i'm not sad to see him go. he was a cheap snag off the free agent scrap heap that is on the wrong side of 30 and probably walks after this season anyway. yes, he did have some great offensive games for us, but he was streaky and his bad games did us in more often then people would like to admit. my beef is that i hoped his departure meant more time for henderson....so much for that. haha

BRNC

02-23-2010, 01:09 PM

spectre

02-23-2010, 01:12 PM

We have until the last regular season game of next season to get under the LT before we're hit with the penalty.

Flip...it was more the attitude. Bonnell called it "swagger". Jax has it obviously, but Flip was able to bring it in with the 2nd unit. I agree Polar he wasn't that reliable, but what he did bring we really need.

If LB stays here I'm ok with TT. If someone like Byron Scott comes in next year then I'm afraid it'll be just like the Bulls' situation (assuming we offer the QO) and we'll never get the best out of him.

If we let him walk after the season then I'm looking for a bigger better lollipop for my avatar.

spectre

02-23-2010, 01:15 PM

spectre...totally agree on the timing...my bigger issue is TT would never be a player I'd call an LB "type"...so I doubt it is a trade I would ever have made...not with what we gave up and I have very serious doubts he (TT) is here next year...and have even more about LB being here...

Heh...I'm afraid to call "type" anymore in regards to LB!

*I didn't think Jax would be a LB player...yet here he is.
*I figured he'd HATE the black hole (Flip)...yet LB was loathe to part with him.
*I think I told Slam 20 times we'd NEVER trade for Thomas as there's no way he's an LB type of player...yet here he is.

I just don't know anymore. I DO know LB can fall outta love as quick as he falls in. Hopefully LB stays and TT soaks up his teaching like a sponge. We just can't afford to continue all these misses.

BRNC

02-23-2010, 01:16 PM

...and "if" we have a new ownership group (looking more likely IMO) then I'm clueless about what they would do...and who they bring in as GM or coach...very unsettling times...at least for a few more days...and then we will have some clarity...at least I hope we do...:confused:

BRNC

02-23-2010, 01:19 PM

Slam

02-23-2010, 02:02 PM

spectre...Jax and Flip I both thought were good "fits"...vet players that both play "D"...neither surprised me...but TT...LB tends to like guys with good-to-high BBIQ...that is what takes me aback with the TT move...TT does have "great raw talent"...but IMO that's where it ends...
He loves Crash. Crash isn't what you would consider a high BBIQ type guy. He's just a guy who has boundless energy and works hard.

Larry is a true teacher. He encourages his players to respond to him, to engage in conversation about what they are doing, their interpretation and their reasoning - providing they are receptive and open to being coached and implementing what he is trying to install.

I think Larry would be geeked that Tyrus responds to him. That is one of the things he speaks so highly about when it comes to Crash. A thirst to want to learn and get better.

They showed footage before the game last night of LB and T2 going through some things at shoot around. They were toally engaged in what they were doing. It was interesting to watch.

I'm not saying that T2 is the be all and end all, but I think that LB is invested in him.

Of course, the flip side of that is, as Spectre said, just how quickly LB can hop on then off of someones band wagon.

BRNC

02-23-2010, 02:06 PM

Slam

02-23-2010, 02:24 PM

slam...if I thought LB would be here another year or two I'd be more encouraged about T2...but I doubt that happens...also...having no clue on who (coach) a new owner might bring in really makes this trade that much more discouraging...and if we (again) miss the play-offs it was just an absolute waste of time and another first round pick...
I can understand that mate, I really can, but we weren't going any where with the team we had and it's not like we gave up a heck of a lot - so why not swing for the fences on a kid with as much upside as Thomas?

spectre

02-23-2010, 02:55 PM

Even tho we can't draft for shit I consider that future 1st a lot...esp. with the specter of LB leaving at the end of the season.

Speaking of which...I'm kind of amazed that we'd deal a 2nd future 1st (how many teams do that anyway besides Isiah's Knicks?) with the impending sale. Postolos is going to dump MJ which in turn means LB walks. Why would he be agreeable (don't you figure he was asked?) to giving up future assets which could very well be for a temporary fix?

If we let TT walk (and worse...if I find out the plan all along was to let him walk) I'm gonna be pissed.

BRNC

02-23-2010, 03:54 PM

Paying (a first) for the honor of letting a guy walk....pissed is an understatement...was not like (the two guys we traded were expiring) we did a salary dump...:facepalm:

spectre

02-23-2010, 04:09 PM

Paying (a first) for the honor of letting a guy walk....pissed is an understatement...was not like (the two guys we traded were expiring) we did a salary dump...:facepalm:

That's the thing BRNC.

Check this thread out from the RGM Trade Board:

What can expiring contracts get you in 2010? (http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=989721)

Obviously that's just fans' opinions, but they make a good point. A LOT of teams are going to have expirings next year. There will also be some teams with capspace, esp. those who miss out on the top FAs. For those teams to take an expiring in a dump so we can be under the LT at the end of next season they're going to want assets. I'd MUCH rather have used that 1st to dump Gana instead of wasting it on a 30 game rental.

Now if the plan is to keep and develop TT because they think he's been sorely used in Chicago (which I do think is the case) then ok.

Slam

02-23-2010, 04:18 PM

Maybe the plan is to trade Crash to the T.Wolves for Al Jeff over the summer and start Thomas as our small forward at a fraction of the price and more upside, youth and size than Crash?

spectre

02-23-2010, 04:27 PM

Maybe the plan is to trade Crash to the T.Wolves for Al Jeff over the summer and start Thomas as our small forward at a fraction of the price and more upside, youth and size than Crash?

You're not helping. :p

BRNC

02-23-2010, 08:12 PM

spectre...I kinda get the logic (kinda being a bit of a stretch) but the player (TT) and timing confuse me I admit...I have a hard time reconciling a new ownership group signing off on this with Ray coming up as a FA...I'm missing something (which is certainly possible) or it was a dumber-than-dirt move...

BRNC

02-23-2010, 09:01 PM

...and now for something completely different...

Hoopsworld has a nice write-up about T2 with the 'Cats...pretty good read...

http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=15403

spectre

02-24-2010, 04:46 AM

Thomas the right pupil for Brown's precise teachings (http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2010/02/23/1268320/thomas-the-right-pupil-for-browns.html)

So far so good.

Toocool

02-24-2010, 05:39 AM

Great read guys.

JamieMcNeill

02-24-2010, 09:03 AM

Thomas the right pupil for Brown's precise teachings (http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2010/02/23/1268320/thomas-the-right-pupil-for-browns.html)

So far so good.

Both of those articles have me pretty psyched for TT's development. Imagine if Brown can turn him into a bigger better Crash. I also like he admits that he has had some issues with coaches before but that he's willing to listen. Truly hard headed players dont talk like that. Brown WILL teach him. Now if Jordan will just match the offer.....

polarcat

02-24-2010, 09:11 AM

JamieMcNeill

02-24-2010, 10:25 AM

just got done reading that off the observer's site. great read and echoing jamie's post, true problem players don't talk like that. lb will need time to work with t2, but i agree that he still has room to be a stud pf in this league. i would love to see diaw coming off the bench and watching thomas run with wallace, felts and jax.

I love how we have 4 players that are similar- very athletic finishers with some shooting ability. felts jax wallace TT with Theo has also provided some amazing defense.

Slam

02-24-2010, 10:25 AM

Imagine if Brown can turn him into a bigger better Crash. ...
Then we can trade Crash over the summer to the T.Wolves for Al Jefferson and have T2 start as our much cheaper, bigger, more upside version of a SF!!

;) = Spectre

BRNC

02-24-2010, 11:07 AM

One of the things I'd hoped would happen (any trade we made for a PF) is "Doris" now appears to be playing for his job...with his contract they'd better trade him before the draft if he gets any "value" back...I'd really like to see the door slam on him...

BETCATS

02-24-2010, 09:17 PM

Boris Diaw (the present) - ever since the trade, the most underrated aspect has been the affects it has had on Boris. He is now focused and interested. He is fighting for his spot.

He once was lost but now is found, this trade is Boris Diaw's amazing grace. The fire has been lit under his ass, he doesnt want to lose his starting job. Before, he never had any competition or any reason to play hard. Now he has one; survival. Boris knows its sink or swim time, and he is swimming. Wouldnt have happened without this trade.

TheBeagle

02-25-2010, 12:21 AM

Another good game from Tyrus. It's a shame Larry waited so late to get him out there in the 3rd or the Jazz quick surge could have been halted, or at least slowed down since Boris was a zero on defense...and offense for that matter. Anyway, that's moot, this is about Tyrus, and congrats on another well-played game despite a couple bad calls. Hey, Tyrus, ever thought about playing the one? Couldn't do much (if any) worse than the two we run out there...

BRNC

02-25-2010, 12:33 AM

...as good a job at timely subs as I thought LB did in the first half...he more than made up for them in the second half...

GoBobs

02-25-2010, 12:39 AM

T2 looked was our second best player tonight. If he can get to the FT line and hit a high % that is going to help take his game to the next level.

JamieMcNeill

02-25-2010, 08:42 AM

I love how high energy this guy is compared to our other bigs. Every time last night I thought someone was gonna get an easy layup, you see Tyrus come flying into the picture and at least make the man earn his points if not get blocked. Sure that means a lot of fouls but I'm just glad to have a 4 with some balls who attacks guys offensively and defensively down low. No easy buckets when Ty's in the game.

TheBeagle

02-26-2010, 01:05 AM

Slam

02-26-2010, 09:42 AM

kickazzz2000

02-26-2010, 10:53 AM

I really like T2 as our starting PF, so long as we have an offensive minded C with some post moves next to him at the 5.

Eg: I think that a T2 and Chandler would be a horrible pairing where as T2 and Roy Hibbert would be a great pairing.

T2 and Nazr.

Slam

02-26-2010, 11:42 AM

T2 and Nazr.
Nazzy is more a mid range J sort of guy though (which T2 also seems to have). I'd rather team T2 with a big that has nifty foot work who can score in the deep post - back to basket style.

Know what I mean?

SWedd523

02-26-2010, 01:03 PM

Slam

02-26-2010, 01:24 PM

A Thomas/Jefferson front court would look so good. Though, We'd have to move Tyrus to SF after trading Crash to Minny
:hysterical:

You're awesome sWEeD.

Wonder how much momentum I can get with this and if I can make Spectre actually fork out the cash to fly up here to punch me in the throat?

BRNC

02-26-2010, 01:30 PM

Slam

02-26-2010, 01:31 PM

...of course the other option would be Jax to Minny...he plays 2-3 so would work (have to include someone else with either Jax or Crash) with the Jefferson contract...and certainly cause less of a "riot" with fans...just a thought...:biggrin:
T2 can't play the 2 like he can play the 3 so he couldn't as easily replace Jax in the starting line up like he could Crash.

Nope, has to be Crash.

Crash is as good as gone.

BRNC

02-26-2010, 01:40 PM

slam...that one is going to be a tough sell...LOL:p

SWedd523

02-26-2010, 02:04 PM

Now that I think about it, Thomas, Doris, and Jefe would look magical. That's about 50 points, 25 rebounds, 5 blocks, and 8 assists a night from those 3.

Damn, See ya Crash! :p

BRNC

02-26-2010, 02:08 PM

ROFLMAO...I give up...I think "insanity" will rule the day...until we know who owns the team...:biggrin:

BRNC

02-26-2010, 02:25 PM

SWedd...all kidding aside...I think the only way we ever get rid of Gana is package him with Crash...I think I'd look hard (and probably do it) if Crash/Gana and Jefferson and a pick came back to us...I just hate the thought of "wishing" Minny on any player...even Doris...:)

spectre

02-26-2010, 02:51 PM

:hysterical:

You're awesome sWEeD.

Wonder how much momentum I can get with this and if I can make Spectre actually fork out the cash to fly up here to punch me in the throat?

Aren't y'all just a ball of hilarity. :facepalm:

You guys think I'd hate it...imagine that Alabama boy trying to deal with Minnesota weather.

BRNC

02-26-2010, 03:14 PM

This from the Simmons chat...as we speak...

Daniel (New Orleans, LA)

With a week to review, which NBA trade is your favorite in terms of affecting this season? Any thoughts on the evils of chewing straws?
Bill Simmons (2:49 PM)

I tweeted this when it happened: the sneakiest trade was Charlotte getting Ty Thomas. They needed a rebounder/shotblocker/athlete and the price was negligible. He has top-4 lottery pedigree and had a couple of bad coaching situations... now he gets to play for Larry Brown on a team that needs him, and Capt. Jack will keep him in line. I loved that gamble by them. It's just hard to believe that MJ made that trade while putting on the 14th at Pebble Beach while holding a cigar.

d2t

02-27-2010, 07:45 AM

Tyrus needs to get start getting more 30 min games, he played just 21 in the Grizz game, i didn't watch it so i'm not too sure why...but his attacking game is too good and valuable to just use for 20-25 mins. Credit to Diaw for lifting his game since the team brought in Tyrus, but seriously it just feels like whenever Tyrus is in the game, the team is having the better of things. Yes he is foul-prone but that comes with his style of play. Perhaps Coach Brown is still concerned about Tyrus' lack of knowledge of the Bobcats offense.

spectre

02-27-2010, 08:22 AM

Agreed on getting TT more minutes. I know Boris played a great game last night, but with our pitiful depth at C right now I don't see why he couldn't be getting at least 30.

Still early though. We're in the honeymoon phase and I doubt TT will complain, esp. since we all know LB is being that teacher he's needed so badly. So long as he understands this coach only wants to help him reach his potential I think he'll continue to improve and his minutes will increase.

Just like with Nazr his play is demanding recognition/PT.

Thank God Jordan is buying the team. I'd hate to think what would have happened with a new coach.

ohara831

02-27-2010, 08:40 AM

I love the game TT brings. But when Boris is on and playing well, he is a strong asset. Would dearly love to keep them both. Talk about some quality depth.

Slam

02-27-2010, 09:43 AM

Tyrus needs to get start getting more 30 min games, he played just 21 in the Grizz game, i didn't watch it so i'm not too sure why...
He picked up 2 early'ish fouls and then had to compete with "the rule".

dnbman

02-27-2010, 12:51 PM

then had to compete with "the rule".

You sit if you have two early fouls?

Slam

02-27-2010, 01:06 PM

You sit if you have two early fouls?

You do if you play for Larry Brown!

GoBobs

02-27-2010, 02:50 PM

When we have Wallace, Tyrus and Diaw in the game together we have the fastest front court in the NBA. PUSH THE DAMN PACE SOME! Last night there was a stretch where we had these guys in and the Griz had Haddi and Z-Bo. We should be running those guys out the gym forcing other teams to go small.

Ghost Kat

02-28-2010, 02:41 PM

I see the phrase the future has caused some uproar, My point was he's young and talented and could easily grow into a franchise face.

Tyrus needs to get used to his new team mates a little more.He played his NBA life with alot of the same people and management. Charlotte reaaly is a good place for him to mature. There's a nice mix of Vets and young faces now. Who can be upset with the idea of UPS and Tyrus starting in the frontcourt some day. All I know is someone face will be dunked in,Daily

Slam

02-28-2010, 08:42 PM

Spectre: What are the options for the front office this summer and T2?

- They pay him the QO only (6.2 mill), he plays next season for us and he becomes an UFA next summer.
- They decline his QO (6.2 mill) and he becomes an UFA this summer.
- They sign him to a contract extension this summer and he plays for the QO for us next season (6.2 mill) with his new contract kicking in the season after.
- They sign and trade him this summer.

Is that it?

dnbman

02-28-2010, 09:09 PM

Spectre: What are the options for the front office this summer and T2?
- They sign him to a contract extension this summer and he plays for the QO for us next season (6.2 mill) with his new contract kicking in the season after.
Is that it?

The QO amount would only be used if no other team made an offer. If we make the QO, then we get the right to match any contract he agrees to with another team. So, if some team went crazy this summer (say the Knicks after losing out on most of the big free agents) they could make a large offer that we'd have to match.

Also, I don't think we'd sign an extension so much as a new contract. The contract amount would kick in next year if it was more than the QO.

From Coon's CBA FAQ:

To summarize, a restricted free agent essentially has four options:

* He can accept his prior team's qualifying offer, play for one season, and become a free agent again the following summer.
* He can accept his prior team's maximum qualifying offer (if applicable, and if one has been submitted) and play under a long-term contract at the maximum salary.
* He can sign an offer sheet with another team, which his prior team is given the opportunity to match.
* He can negotiate a new contract with his prior team that is independent of the qualifying offer or maximum qualifying offer.

http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#Q36

spectre

02-28-2010, 09:10 PM

dnbman

02-28-2010, 09:15 PM

They tender the QO, he then has that in hand and would look to find a better offer as a RFA and we have the choice of matching it. If he doesn't find a better offer or can't negotiate a longer term deal with us he then plays for that 6.2 for one year and becomes a UFA...which is how it just played out with Felton.

We don't tender the QO and he then looks to the open market. We could say that we won't give him that 6.2, but we're willing to do a longer term deal at a different rate. We then run the risk of him getting an offer we can't beat. We could also lose to another bidder for the same contract.

The 2nd option would probably get us a better deal but we wouldn't have the option of matching.

I don't know that he'd get that 6.2 million anywhere starting out. Think maybe the 2nd option would be the way to go?

The Knicks REALLY scare me. If most of the big FAs stay with their teams, the Knicks are going to have to reload with talent. I could see them getting one big FA and then grossly overpaying somebody like Thomas. Not to mention, if one of the teams loses their big FA, they're going to have to either reload or start rebuilding.

I think we make the QO and see what happens.

Slam

02-28-2010, 09:30 PM

Thanks dnb and Spectre.

We could say that we won't give him that 6.2, but we're willing to do a longer term deal at a different rate.

That was going to be my next question. Can we sign him to a new multi year contract this summer that supersedes the QO - even if the 1st year of the contract is less than the QO.

I'm wondering if he really is buzzed playing under LB as learning for the 1st time in his pro career? Having a coach that really cares? I wonder if the ownership thing will help? I hope MJ goes out of his way to get close to the kid. That might have a lot of pull.

If we could lock him up at something like 25/5 with the last year being a player option it would be pretty cool.

Would a kid once called "Free Money" go for it though?

spectre

02-28-2010, 09:37 PM

His agent won't let him go at a deal just like Felton's didn't...and there's going to be a lot of teams with cash.

I think I'm leading towards DNB's opinion...make the QO. He still doesn't have to take that amount and could instead sign that 5/25 you mentioned, but I'm afraid it's going to be much more than that.

Remember they negotiated with Felton til right before training camp and then he accepted the QO which we'd offered at the end of the prior season.

Speaking of which...when's that deadline?

dnbman

02-28-2010, 09:41 PM

Thanks dnb and Spectre.

That was going to be my next question. Can we sign him to a new multi year contract this summer that supersedes the QO - even if the 1st year of the contract is less than the QO.

I'm wondering if he really is buzzed playing under LB as learning for the 1st time in his pro career? Having a coach that really cares? I wonder if the ownership thing will help? I hope MJ goes out of his way to get close to the kid. That might have a lot of pull.

If we could lock him up at something like 25/5 with the last year being a player option it would be pretty cool.

Would a kid once called "Free Money" go for it though?

Other than stability, I don't see what he gains from doing a deal like that. Remember, he feels like he was grossly underused and misunderstood in Chicago. If I'm feeling like that, I'm not signing a long deal while my value is low.

I don't think his play has necessarily earned him a big contract, but I'm just very curious about how things are going to play out this summer. If I'm Thomas, I don't think I'm going to miss out on the opportunity to take advantage of a team's misfortune of losing their Plan A.

spectre

02-28-2010, 09:44 PM

From the FAQ:

In order to make their free agent a restricted free agent, a team must submit a qualifying offer to the player by June 30.

Slam

02-28-2010, 09:45 PM

Other than stability, I don't see what he gains from doing a deal like that.
The CBA and impending lockout might be incentive to get a deal signed over the summer?

Isn't the 2011-2012 season the one the people in the know are pegging at the lockout season? If I was a player I would want an extension locked in before the CBA is introduced and potentially hinders my earning compasity.

dnbman

02-28-2010, 09:51 PM

The CBA and impending lockout might be incentive to get a deal signed over the summer?

Isn't the 2011-2012 season the one the people in the know are pegging at the lockout season? If I was a player I would want an extension locked in before the CBA is introduced and potentially hinders my earning compasity.

But then Tyrus (or his agent) would be gambling that the new CBA will drop salaries so much that it will be better to sign a mediocre (from Tyrus's standpoint) salary now than the lower salary later.

I haven't paid enough attention to what the owners have been saying, but I thought the main issue was a hard cap. How much are salaries really going to drop?

Also, if the lockout is a year, I don't think he gets paid his salary for that year, does he? If he doesn't, the QO would give him an extra million until he gets the new deal.

I don't know. It's an interesting point, but I'm guessing his agent will be telling him that he'll still do better waiting than signing a long term contract for $5M a year this summer.

One can hope though. I'd love it if that happened. At worst, he could be an instant energy big off the bench.

Slam

02-28-2010, 10:06 PM

I haven't paid enough attention to what the owners have been saying, but I thought the main issue was a hard cap. How much are salaries really going to drop?
I've only been loosely following so far, but from what I can understand there are going to be significant cuts in salaries. So much so that there was even talk of cutting the salaries of existing contracts (which I doubt they will get over the line).

THey are talking that the increments that a team can offer their players will be reduced as will the MLE etc. One thing is for sure, salaries aint going up!!

That being the case, I'm pretty sure it would be in the best interest of players to get a new contract signed before the lockout or new CBA kicks in than after - which might be a selling point for our FO when negotiating with T2's reps.

dnbman

02-28-2010, 10:12 PM

which might be a selling point for our FO when negotiating with T2's reps.

That would definitely be a great idea, assuming Tyrus continues to show skill and coach-ability. He's looked like a very nice player so far.

teej

02-28-2010, 10:18 PM

I've only been loosely following so far, but from what I can understand there are going to be significant cuts in salaries. So much so that there was even talk of cutting the salaries of existing contracts (which I doubt they will get over the line).

From what I saw after the PA-Owners meeting in Dallas over All-Star Weekend, the owners initially proposed both a hard cap and around a 30-40% decrease in salaries, but that proposal was immidiately shelved after the first meeting and the owners mostly want a hard cap. While that won't directly lower salaries (i.e., the max will still probably be around 20mil if they keep a max) the lower hard cap will significantly lower role players (like Raymond and Tyrus) ability to make money on the market. Whereas now they can make 6,7, maybe 8 million a year, it'd go down as low as 3 or 4 like the NFL (the model Stern seems to like). If that's the case, then it'd most likely benefit Tyrus to sign a 5/25 or at least a 4/20 deal with a PO for the 4th year, since he'll only have to play one or two post-lockout years under that contract.

As far as NY, I could see the Knicks miss out on LeBron and sign A'mare to a max deal and sign Ray and Tyrus to 8mil contracts though, or 9 and 7. With Gallo and Wilson Chandler, that's a good lineup...

SWedd523

02-28-2010, 10:20 PM

That would definitely be a great idea, assuming Tyrus continues to show skill and coach-ability. He's looked like a very nice player so far.

Hopefully the team's people really push the reality of the dropping salaries and he'll be willing to take a slight decrease in pay (seemingly so now) in order to get locked up long term for what will be nice pay in the future

Toocool

03-01-2010, 12:22 AM

dnbman

03-01-2010, 06:53 AM

Just something to note.

During TT's time in Charlotte.
He's averaging:
4 more points
.7 more assists per game
Twice as many blocks
.7 more rebounds per game
Shooting 10% better than in Chi

All that addition in 3 extra minutes. I think he loves it here in Charlotte (also the increased points from him being in the higher pecking order on offense here (I estimate he was 4-5th option on offense in Chi?)

Yeah, but does Tyrus think that's just him getting his chance on any other team but Chicago is or is it a result of our team and our staff making him better?

Just because a guy does better on another team doesn't mean that team is making him better.

Again, I'd love to keep the buy based on what I've seen so far, but if he continues to excel, I'm not sure he's going to be cheap.

BRNC

03-01-2010, 01:56 PM

I think the effort (which worried me) is there from TT...and I feel better that the relationship between LB and TT started off well...I like the idea that LB will have more time to work with this kid...now that ownership is resolved...

G Force

03-01-2010, 11:47 PM

He is very, very, very talented on D. He is almost like the ying to Gerald Wallaces yang on that end of the floor.

NBA 2k10 player ratings:

Wallace

steal - 89
block - 75

Thomas

steal - 75
block - 90

:shrug::shrug::shrug::shrug::banghead::banghead::b anghead::banghead::banghead:

is this why I registered? You just compared rankings....in a video game. Wow.

dnbman

03-02-2010, 12:01 AM

:shrug::shrug::shrug::shrug::banghead::banghead::b anghead::banghead::banghead:

is this why I registered? You just compared rankings....in a video game. Wow.

You tell us. Why did you register here?

I think GoBobs was just using that as an abstraction of their abilities, not using as real statistical analysis. You'll find plenty of that in other posts and other threads.

Welcome.

JamieMcNeill

03-02-2010, 08:35 AM

:shrug::shrug::shrug::shrug::banghead::banghead::b anghead::banghead::banghead:

is this why I registered? You just compared rankings....in a video game. Wow.

Maybe a little juvenile but I see his point.

On another note isnt three or more a trend?
Because TT has been great in all the games so far. Maybe Kat didnt speak too soon

Ghost Kat

03-02-2010, 08:46 AM

:shrug::banghead:

You just compared rankings....in a video game. Wow.

What?

Video games dont represent real life?

I'm shocked....Shocked I tell you.

G Force

03-02-2010, 09:56 AM

You tell us. Why did you register here?

Because I am the biggest Bobcats fan you'll ever meet. PLAYOFFS OR BUST!

teej

03-02-2010, 10:11 AM

I am the biggest Bobcats fan you'll ever meet.

:g:

Do you weigh more than Sean May? Because then you might be.

spectre

03-02-2010, 10:19 AM

Because I am the biggest Bobcats fan you'll ever meet. PLAYOFFS OR BUST!

Then it's only appropriate for you to be posting on the best Bobcats' fan site you'll ever find.

Welcome to the forum!

SWedd523

03-02-2010, 11:47 AM

Because I am the biggest Bobcats fan you'll ever meet. PLAYOFFS OR BUST!

No I'M the biggest MikeCats fan you'll ever meet!!!

;)

JamieMcNeill

03-03-2010, 10:45 PM

TT looked pretty good again

anyone see anything they would like to add

BRNC

03-04-2010, 12:07 AM

TT looked pretty good again

anyone see anything they would like to add

I might be a small minority with this opinion but...what I saw tonight (against the Celtics) was a pretty darned immature player...Thomas was anything but "composed" with the intentional on Daniels...and was "lucky" he did not get a flagrant on the S. Williams foul...:facepalm:

Slam

03-04-2010, 09:58 AM

I might be a small minority with this opinion but...what I saw tonight (against the Celtics) was a pretty darned immature player...Thomas was anything but "composed" with the intentional on Daniels...and was "lucky" he did not get a flagrant on the S. Williams foul...:facepalm:
Agreed. He forced the issue way too much last night and was more out of control than he has been.

I am worried about the effect that guys like Felts, Jax and Crash will have on him. He's a young impressionable kid. I think that if he sees them moaning at the refs, he's going to do the same.

If he sees Jax getting into it with Pierce, then he's going to go out there and try and make a statement to in order to earn his team mates respect.

That worries me because Felts, Jax and Crash are HORRIBLE when it comes to concentrating on what they do and not on what the refs/other team is doing.

BRNC

03-04-2010, 11:52 AM

The other thing with TT is the "black hole" syndrome that LB raged about (other players earlier in the season)...does this kid not understand if two guys are on you (sometimes three) that one of your teammates is open...or is "teammates" not a concept he gets?

This was not all TT...it was a collective stink game...but I'm starting to (clearly) understand some of the critics views on TT...

Slam

03-04-2010, 11:58 AM

ammofan

03-04-2010, 12:02 PM

We need to bench Boris big a$$ and start T-Time babay!!!!!

BRNC

03-04-2010, 12:21 PM

ammofan...(and anyone else)...don't get me wrong...without bringing TT in I doubt we would be getting the production from "Doris" we have been getting since the trade...and...I see very real abilities/skills that TT has...but this guy (TT) is a major work in progress...

spectre

03-04-2010, 12:45 PM

I am worried about the effect that guys like Felts, Jax and Crash will have on him. He's a young impressionable kid. I think that if he sees them moaning at the refs, he's going to do the same.

If he sees Jax getting into it with Pierce, then he's going to go out there and try and make a statement to in order to earn his team mates respect.

That worries me because Felts, Jax and Crash are HORRIBLE when it comes to concentrating on what they do and not on what the refs/other team is doing.

Out of curiosity...how many technicals has Felton got for arguing a call?

I know that he shows displeasure, but all the guys do that. Showing more than the regular guy tho? Dunno bout that. I've certainly not seen him hanging back as the play goes on to bitch like Jax does. As captain both he and Crash have the "right" to talk to the officials, but that's usually during dead balls.

Crash is worse...but nothing compared to Jax.

If TT is so easily influenced then I don't hold a lot of hope for him.

BRNC

03-04-2010, 12:56 PM

spectre...I've got to say I can't remember Ray ever getting hit with a "T"...I mean you'd think he has at least one...but I really can't remember him ever getting one...:g:

Crash does what the "captains" are suppose to do when "dead ball" situations happen...gripe about calls that are only going in one direction...100% agree about Jax...I wish he'd keep his "head in the game" more...

Slam

03-04-2010, 01:06 PM

Out of curiosity...how many technicals has Felton got for arguing a call?

I know that he shows displeasure, but all the guys do that. Showing more than the regular guy tho? Dunno bout that. I've certainly not seen him hanging back as the play goes on to bitch like Jax does. As captain both he and Crash have the "right" to talk to the officials, but that's usually during dead balls.

Crash is worse...but nothing compared to Jax.

If TT is so easily influenced then I don't hold a lot of hope for him.
It has nothing to do with how many T's are called on a player, it's about the example they are setting, the way they carry themselves and how that might rub off on people (refs, opposing players and their own team mates).

Agreed that Felts rarely - if ever - hangs back on a play like the other two. But there is no doubt he has been remonstrating a lot more with fouls that are called on him than ever before.

You know me, I never blame the refs for a loss - last night I thought the refs did a horrible job and no doubt it would have been frustrating, but I'm seeing the guys piss and moan than ever before of late.

That isn't going to help anything and I really wonder if it has an adverse effect on T2?

Slam

03-04-2010, 01:07 PM

If TT is so easily influenced then I don't hold a lot of hope for him.
Might as well stick a fork in Felts, Jax and Crash then because obviously they allow the refs to easily influence them..............and they are considered our leaders?

spectre

03-04-2010, 01:16 PM

Might as well stick a fork in Felts, Jax and Crash then because obviously they allow the refs to easily influence them..............and they are considered our leaders?

I'll just disagree then, because I don't see Felton allowing the refs to influence him at all like you apparently do. I've never seen him stop playing defense on the following play. The only thing I've seen is him complain right after the foul during the dead ball...which most everyone in the NBA does nowadays.

There's a world of difference between him & Jax...and a big difference between Crash & Jax. I think it's a disservice to both those guys to put them all in the same category.

teej

03-04-2010, 01:22 PM

and was "lucky" he did not get a flagrant on the S. Williams foul...:facepalm:

I agree with just about everything else I've read from last night. But I loved that (Shelden was being a classless prick along with Nate) and honestly if he'd been ejected, t'd up, or anything I'd have been fine with it. That was just fine. Only thing bad was it was part of a trend.

Jack absolutely has to shut his mouth, he's hurt the team way too much by it. Crash is acting like a bitch too, really ever since the trade but more since he got back from Dallas. Ray has been complaining, but he isn't whining like GW, Jack, and Tyrus are.

And Slam is absolutely right, it's about examples. We saw it last night, the trash talking in Boston comes from the Big 3 on down, and our little Big 3 is establishing a bitch mode example. Do we want that? I hope not.

BRNC

03-04-2010, 01:28 PM

teej...I thought what Williams was absolutely-100%-classless-in-the-extreme...and I thought what TT did was dangerous...and easily could have gotten him a "flagrant"...and certainly makes me concerned about his "lack of maturity"...the sum...

I did not like it from either players' view...IMO the "whole" thing was "classless"...

SWedd523

03-04-2010, 01:32 PM

I've been thoroughly impressed with TT's overall skillset. He shows the ability to pass and can hit the face up jumper to about 18 feet. Both of which I wasn't expecting much of. I'd like to see him calm down a bit though, at times he seems to get too into the moment and forgets to take a breath and let the game slow down, but I have a feeling that as he matures, that'll start to show itself.

Am I the only one that has noticed Crash's different attitude since the ASG? He seems to be much more of a prima donna now and whines a lot more than he did before where he would just frown and run down the court so he could pin somebody's shit on the glass.

I don't want his increased popularity to get to his head, because his game revolves around hustle, not being pretty.

dnbman

03-04-2010, 01:41 PM

Am I the only one that has noticed Crash's different attitude since the ASG? He seems to be much more of a prima donna now and whines a lot more than he did before where he would just frown and run down the court so he could pin somebody's shit on the glass.

I don't want his increased popularity to get to his head, because his game revolves around hustle, not being pretty.

That may be the case, but for at least the last couple of years he's been more than willing to talk to the refs.

To me, everybody just seems a step slower than usual. I'm wondering if guys are just getting tired and not completely healed from injuries. That kind of wear causes you to make a lot of mental mistakes, which showed itself quite a bit last night. There were times when guys just took it to the whole out of frustration with no where to go.

BRNC

03-04-2010, 01:42 PM

SWedd...for me the games after the All-Star break have appeared to be a-bunch-of-guys-on-the-court-in-the-same-uniform-doing-individual-"things"-and-not-playing-team-ball.....

I wish I could put it on one player...but just looks like a "dysfunctional" group of players to me at this point...if I put the blame on a single "entity" it is LB...

spectre

03-04-2010, 01:42 PM

To me, everybody just seems a step slower than usual. I'm wondering if guys are just getting tired and not completely healed from injuries. That kind of wear causes you to make a lot of mental mistakes, which showed itself quite a bit last night. There were times when guys just took it to the whole out of frustration with no where to go.

That and the lack of Cs have my vote for what ails us. Losing Flip...or rather another legit option at guard...comes in right behind.

Walt Cronkite

03-04-2010, 01:43 PM

There's a world of difference between him & Jax...and a big difference between Crash & Jax. I think it's a disservice to both those guys to put them all in the same category.

Really? You don't think it's a problem when we're playing 4 on 5 on defense because Crash is complaining about a call on the other end? That happens much too frequently these days. We've always had a bunch of complainers that worry too much about the refs, it's just getting worse. You have to play your game, there is nothing you can do about the officiating. Over the course of the game it normally evens out, unless you make a big fuss about it and refs start calling things against you in order to make an example.

spectre

03-04-2010, 01:46 PM

Really? You don't think it's a problem when we're playing 4 on 5 on defense because Crash is complaining about a call on the other end? That happens much too frequently these days. We've always had a bunch of complainers that worry too much about the refs, it's just getting worse. You have to play your game, there is nothing you can do about the officiating. Over the course of the game it normally evens out, unless you make a big fuss about it and refs start calling things against you in order to make an example.

I just haven't noticed Crash doing that so much, but maybe it's "degrees" betwixt him and Jax. Crash seems more to bitch while running up the court right after a non call. Jax just stops what he's doing and glares at the official.

I think it's "getting worse" because of Jax.

Walt Cronkite

03-04-2010, 02:06 PM

I don't think Jax is to blame for it. It was a season ago that LB said we complain about the refs too much, right?

BRNC

03-04-2010, 02:12 PM

I don't think Jax is to blame for it. It was a season ago that LB said we complain about the refs too much, right?

yes he did Walt...but it has not gotten better and is getting worse...apparently LB could not "fix" it...and the slope only appears to be getting steeper...

I did take notice that Crash had to take Jax "in hand" last night trying to calm him down...but Walt you have a valid point...it has needing "fixing" for longer than this season...it was not...and since Jax has come to the team it is getting worse...IMO not because of Jax...but because the problem was never handled correctly by the coaching staff...

teej

03-04-2010, 02:15 PM

I thought what TT did was dangerous...and easily could have gotten him a "flagrant"

How was it dangerous? I saw it as nothing more than telling them "we're sick of you treating us like 5-year-olds" and while playing better would stop that, standing up for the rest of the team was a solid call. The tech he got was immature, but the Shelden foul, I've seen plenty of guys do that. Just ask Raja about him and Kobe :biggrin:

Am I the only one that has noticed Crash's different attitude since the ASG? He seems to be much more of a prima donna now and whines a lot more than he did before where he would just frown and run down the court so he could pin somebody's shit on the glass.

Same here, he's been a diva, and while I love him, not only has he been a real pansy, but he hasn't even done anything on the court to earn respect from the officials. He acts like "oooh I'm an allstar, I can get touch fouls like D-wade." No, Crash, you aren't any different, your crap still stinks, and you need to keep doing the dirty work before we miss the playoffs and you never get in another ASG. That being said, He's still the best thing to happen to the team, and his attitude now won't change that.

Really? You don't think it's a problem when we're playing 4 on 5 on defense because Crash is complaining about a call on the other end? That happens much too frequently these days. We've always had a bunch of complainers that worry too much about the refs, it's just getting worse. You have to play your game, there is nothing you can do about the officiating. Over the course of the game it normally evens out, unless you make a big fuss about it and refs start calling things against you in order to make an example.

Absolutely right. Crash isn't nearly as bad as Jack when it comes to whining, but he's still hurting us. I've also noticed that he's staying down on the ground a lot more and just walking back up court. He, Jack, Ray, Tyrus, Tyson (if he ever plays again), and even DJ need to stop being little pussies and let their game do the talking. I'd respect them so much more if they'd just shut up. Look, we all know you're getting fouled, let the fans do the talking, wait until the break. :facepalm: Was it back in '05 when an anonymous ref said the Bobcats got the worst calls because they were the whiniest team? Some things never change, and there's only two people still around from that team.

BRNC

03-04-2010, 02:44 PM

teej

03-04-2010, 02:50 PM

teej...I have not had what I would call "a great look" of the play but by all appearance (IMO) it was "going after the head" not the ball...and I consider that dangerous...I get it if you don't...and agree to disagree...

Now I see.

I was only half watching at that point, but all I saw was him pulling a football like wraparound tackle, not anything above the neck.

If he had gone for the head, I can't see how they would've let him stay in the game, and he probably would be sending a large check to Stu Jackson right now. :p Probably would be suspended, too.

spectre

03-04-2010, 02:51 PM

I don't think Jax is to blame for it. It was a season ago that LB said we complain about the refs too much, right?

I think it's "getting worse" because of Jax.

I didn't say he was to blame...I said it's getting worse because of Jax.

Maybe Crash has been complaining too much...but I can't believe that y'all think Crash's actions after a foul called is = Jax.

BRNC

03-04-2010, 02:55 PM

Now I see.

I was only half watching at that point, but all I saw was him pulling a football like wraparound tackle, not anything above the neck.

If he had gone for the head, I can't see how they would've let him stay in the game, and he probably would be sending a large check to Stu Jackson right now. :p Probably would be suspended, too.

teej...you know how any "individual play" is kinda like a quick-snapshot...I'll give the credit to the refs on this one...we (you and I) both agree how "classless" what Williams attempted was...I'm putting the ref (closest to the play) there with us...but if Williams had been hurt TT would have been hit with a flagrant...

The "snapshot" I saw looked like "going for the head"....I'm just glad no one was injured...

teej

03-04-2010, 03:00 PM

I'm just glad no one was injured...

Same. If Shelden got hurt or I thought Tyrus went for the head, I wouldn't have applauded what he did.

But either way, it's all good intentions :biggrin:

Slam

03-04-2010, 03:55 PM

Maybe Crash has been complaining too much...but I can't believe that y'all think Crash's actions after a foul called is = Jax.
Doesn't matter if they are totally equal, the fact is Crash and Felts still do it and because there is three of them doing it it magnify's it even more.

It serves no purpose. No purpose at all. It's toally counter productive of many, many levels and if a kid like T2 sees our leaders - Felts, Jax and Crash doing it - what's to blame him from thinking it is an acceptable form of behaviour?

Contempt breeds contempt.

teej

03-04-2010, 04:06 PM

Doesn't matter if they are totally equal, the fact is Crash and Felts still do it and because there is three of them doing it it magnify's it even more.

It serves no purpose. No purpose at all. It's toally counter productive of many, many levels and if a kid like T2 sees our leaders - Felts, Jax and Crash doing it - what's to blame him from thinking it is an acceptable form of behaviour?

Contempt breeds contempt.

Totally 100% right.

I've seen a ton of this on the teams I've played on. When the best players are whiners, everyone's jawing. When the best players leave their game to do the talking, they get more respect and no one else on the team is complaining, even the problem players.

spectre

03-04-2010, 04:09 PM

Doesn't matter if they are totally equal, the fact is Crash and Felts still do it and because there is three of them doing it it magnify's it even more.

It serves no purpose. No purpose at all. It's toally counter productive of many, many levels and if a kid like T2 sees our leaders - Felts, Jax and Crash doing it - what's to blame him from thinking it is an acceptable form of behaviour?

Contempt breeds contempt.

The coach maybe? Isn't he the "true" leader of this team?

I think the degree absolutely matters. You have one guy complaining during a dead ball. You have another complaining after the call while going back up the court. You have yet another who stops playing and stays in the back court. You're trying to imply they all have the same effect and it doesn't.

Everyone in the league does the 1st scenario.

I think you're selling TT way too short. Either that else he's a pure knucklehead and needs a chaperone whenever he's away from LB.

BRNC

03-04-2010, 04:11 PM

The problem I have with all this "garbage"...for all his "Mr. Fix-it" reputation with "problem" players he has not been able to make this go away...I do not get why LB is (or appears to be) afraid to bench vet players and stop this garbage....the season is quickly "spinning down the toilet"...and this crap is only helping it spin faster...

teej

03-04-2010, 04:48 PM

I think the degree absolutely matters.

Not really.

It does if it's a first time problem, but if it's an ongoing problem like it is here, then any degree is a problem.

Let's see if this helps.

If I brought a camera into the arena, it'd be fine. (Ray) But if someone brought a camera and used a hidden laser pointer to distract a shooter, then that'd be wrong (Jack). So then, the arena would have to ban all cameras (LB) and any cameras, even in a cell phone (any degree) would be wrong.

Does that make sense?

After a tipping point, every little bit makes the younger guys more likely to whine. I even saw Derrick jawing last night. :facepalm:

Walt Cronkite

03-04-2010, 05:28 PM

No cameras in teh arenas!!

polarcat

03-04-2010, 05:30 PM

not to be a douche teej, but ya lost me. :D spectre is spot on with the team mentality. our 'cats have never gotten the ref's respect on the court and whining about it as an entire team surely won't change anything. it falls in larry's lap and the discipline is not there. i can't remember the last time i've seen gerald hang his head and look deflated as much as he has since the asg. maybe that long dec/jan run that got us to this point drained a lot out of these players. again, that falls on larry because we do have a bench and he should see the lack of production and adjust.

spectre

03-04-2010, 06:12 PM

Like it or not...this game is not refereed "fair". Stars get special treatment (breathe on Flash...foul) and teams get special treatment. You can't expect a player to get hammered on one end of the court, get a no call, then barely touch his guy on the other, get called for a foul and not get upset. That's totally against human nature.

The wings and the PGs are matched up with these guys more than not, which means calls will go against these guys we're talking about more than not.

Frustration from that in no way equals bitching about every call and stopping play even tho the other 9 didn't.

It does if it's a first time problem, but if it's an ongoing problem like it is here, then any degree is a problem.

Let's see if this helps.

If I brought a camera into the arena, it'd be fine. (Ray) But if someone brought a camera and used a hidden laser pointer to distract a shooter, then that'd be wrong (Jack). So then, the arena would have to ban all cameras (LB) and any cameras, even in a cell phone (any degree) would be wrong.

Does that make sense?

I have ALL sorts of issues with this mentality. That same line of thinking is why we now strip search Grandma after some Muslim terrorsts flew planes into buildings.

But that's political...and I really don't want to go there. I also apologize in advance if the above offended anyone.

Especially the Grandmas.

teej

03-04-2010, 06:21 PM

not to be a douche teej, but ya lost me. :D

Not at all. Sometimes I lose myself (in the music, the moment, I own it, I never let it go...:rolleyes:)

Sorry that didn't work. All I'm trying to say is that where we are, with the whining to the officials, it's the boy who cried wolf to them, and for the players, they just need to stop it entirely. Zero tolerance. That help? Or do I just need to shut up? (Don't answer that Walt :biggrin:)

And Spectre, I don't know if Slam's selling Tyrus short or not. His knock his entire career has been for doing dumb stuff, and I haven't seen any different here. He seems like the type to follow the leader among his peers. Yes, LB is wrong for not benching people, but LB is under tremendous pressure to win now, and if he thinks letting Jack jaw a little more instead of benching him for a half gives him a chance to win a game, I think he'll do it.

spectre

03-04-2010, 06:25 PM

teej

03-04-2010, 06:29 PM

Frustration from that in no way equals bitching about every call and stopping play even tho the other 9 didn't.

Equals? No. Hurts the team? Yeah, probably.

I have ALL sorts of issues with this mentality. That same line of thinking is why we now strip search Grandma after some Muslim terrorsts flew planes into buildings.

But that's political...and I really don't want to go there. I also apologize in advance if the above offended anyone.

Especially the Grandmas.

It's only fair. I hate political correctness too (for the grandmas), but in this one specific case, LB needs a zero tolerance policy to stamp out the whining. Once it's gone, then things go back to normal.

Places/people go into pseudo-lockdown over different things all the time. My school has a zero tolerance policy on fighting. Thus, school crime and fighting is down by a large percentage over the last 5 years. Once it's no longer an issue, they'll stop arresting kids on the spot. LB needs to "arrest" Jack and Gerald for a game.

teej

03-04-2010, 06:30 PM

I'm as strong a backer of LB as anyone...but some of his rotation decisions sometimes seem downright insane. Big one...why did he leave Jax in that game where he only hit the one FG? Dude pretty much shot us out of the game.

Maybe the teacher is conflicting with the coach? I dunno.

He left Flip in that Indiana game where he had a horrible night, then hit the three to tie it or bring us close before Boris fucked things up.

He trusts certain players totally. AI was one, Chauncey became one, Jack seems to be one.

BRNC

03-04-2010, 07:59 PM

teej...point is when the coach (LB in this case) is at the point of challenging the "manhood" (calling this a cupcake game for the Celtics...which LB did) of his players...it is time to sit down players...play the six "bench players" for an entire game...take the "L" to make a point 'cause at this point we're taking an "L" anyway...if (IMO) you're going to play the "call out manhood" game you'd damned well better do it all the way...I'm tired of this half-a$$ed stuff which is getting the team nowhere...fast...:facepalm:

...and the rotations..(spectre or slam)...I've been sick of them since the first game of the season...:facepalm:

teej

03-04-2010, 08:45 PM

teej...point is when the coach (LB in this case) is at the point of challenging the "manhood" (calling this a cupcake game for the Celtics...which LB did) of his players...it is time to sit down players...play the six "bench players" for an entire game...take the "L" to make a point 'cause at this point we're taking an "L" anyway...if (IMO) you're going to play the "call out manhood" game you'd damned well better do it all the way...I'm tired of this half-a$$ed stuff which is getting the team nowhere...fast...:facepalm:

Maybe he's waiting for Nazr and Gana to come back to do it?

Ah, who am I kidding, LB would never do that.

Slam

03-05-2010, 11:22 AM

I've only been loosely following so far, but from what I can understand there are going to be significant cuts in salaries. So much so that there was even talk of cutting the salaries of existing contracts (which I doubt they will get over the line).

THey are talking that the increments that a team can offer their players will be reduced as will the MLE etc. One thing is for sure, salaries aint going up!!

That being the case, I'm pretty sure it would be in the best interest of players to get a new contract signed before the lockout or new CBA kicks in than after - which might be a selling point for our FO when negotiating with T2's reps.

See ths post about Shannon Brown and what he is going to do? This is what I was talking about when I was jawing on about using the CBA as a selling point to try and get T2 locked up on the cheap before 2011:

Shannon Brown, his agent Mark Bartelstein and the Lakers all know that it would be advantageous to opt out and get another deal before this contract is up after the 2011 season.
The collective bargaining agreement will expire after that 2011 season, and there have been threats of a lockout by the NBA owners.
If Brown opted out of his deal this summer, the Lakers would own his "Early Bird" rights and could sign him to a deal for up to five years and up to as high as the mid-level exception; the current mid-level exception pays $5.8 million in the first year.
"We'll look at that at the right time," Bartelstein said. "Shannon loves it in L.A., and that's where he wants to be."

spectre

03-05-2010, 11:29 AM

Hopefully no one offers him a big contract in FA so we have that option.

Slam

03-05-2010, 11:52 AM

Then we could at least S&T though - right?

BRNC

03-05-2010, 11:54 AM

Then we could at least S&T though - right?

If the team decides not to keep him they could do an S&T...yes as long as we extend him...

spectre

03-05-2010, 12:26 PM

Then we could at least S&T though - right?

Maybe...it's not necessarily up to us.

7 teams will be at least 15 million under the cap next season and more than that will be under by a lesser amount. If we're talking a full MLE deal then that would be 29 teams. Why give up an asset when you can absorb the salary outright?

We also have to look at our cap situation. Unless it's really good, would we want to make our cap worse by taking on someone that a team would be willing to give up? We're already flirting with the LT not even considering TT.

Something tells me that what teams offer won't be very good.

This all goes back to my misgivings about doing that trade to begin with. There's all sorts of risks involved here.

Edit:

Now of course if we QO him then it's obviously up to us.

Slam

03-05-2010, 12:51 PM

Maybe...it's not necessarily up to us.

7 teams will be at least 15 million under the cap next season and more than that will be under by a lesser amount. If we're talking a full MLE deal then that would be 29 teams. Why give up an asset when you can absorb the salary outright?
But that's the idea behind a S&T. Team B (other team) shows interest in player X (Tyrus). Team A (us) says "if you want him you can have him, but we will match what ever you sign him for - so if you really do want him, you will have to give something up to get him".

Right?

It still sits us in some what of a position of power.

Doesn't it?

I'm confused!

BRNC

03-05-2010, 12:58 PM

slam...I've always thought it did..."normally" you can demand a pick back...and a smart FO would also get an expiring back...

spectre

03-05-2010, 01:58 PM

But that's the idea behind a S&T. Team B (other team) shows interest in player X (Tyrus). Team A (us) says "if you want him you can have him, but we will match what ever you sign him for - so if you really do want him, you will have to give something up to get him".

Right?

It still sits us in some what of a position of power.

Doesn't it?

I'm confused!

Out of curiosity, what players have been S&T whose new salary started below 10 million per? The only ones that come to mind for me are the big salaries like JJ & Lewis.

Also we do not retain the right to match unless we offer that QO.

There's multiple ways it can go down.

Assuming we QO him:

1) He goes out and tries to get a contract. He's offered one and it's way more than we want to pay (say 8-9 million starting out).
a: Team is under the cap and has nothing we want that they're willing to give up...they sign him.
b: Team is under the cap but wants to maintain cap space...they offer something good and we do a S&T.
c: Team is over the cap, really want him and offer something good...we S&T.

2) He gets no offers
a: He plays out the QO and is in the same situation Felton is right now
b) We offer a longer term deal, he agrees

3) He goes out, gets a contract...we match.

If we don't QO him all of those are still applicable except the matching. There's also the possibility it pisses him off that we don't tender the QO and he leaves for anything that gets him out of Charlotte.

You have to remember our cap situation however. If we didn't QO Tyrus what are the odds we'd get something back in a S&T that we would be willing to go over the LT for? On the flip...if we were willing to QO him why would we not match pretty much anything offered to him in FA (assuming he's not getting stupid money).

I'm sure I've missed a few things as I did this on the fly.

Did this help...or did I make the confusion worse? :p

spectre

03-05-2010, 02:03 PM

Out of curiosity, what players have been S&T whose new salary started below 10 million per? The only ones that come to mind for me are the big salaries like JJ & Lewis.The answer to this would settle something I've thought for a while and will determine if TT (and possibly Felton) will be a "sign him or lose him" scenario.

Granted I threw 10 million out there, but I'm more curious about the players in the MLE range.

If you remember last year I maintained all through Felton's RFA status that a S&T isn't really feasible as he's around an MLE type of player and that most teams would just sign him to that vs. giving up anything to us for him. Also, if that's what TT's value is it also opens the door to all 29 teams vs. just those with space (not that this is so huge this offseason as lots of teams have space).

BRNC

03-05-2010, 02:52 PM

teej

03-05-2010, 03:00 PM

The problem for us (IMO) are the teams that don't get to spend their money on a top-tier player...I think there is a big risk both these guys (Ray and TT) get offers for more than they are really worth...so (realistically) a S&T is the only way to recoup anything...alternative...just let them go...

If this does happen (and I hope it doesn't) it could be a bit of a blessing in disguise.

As long as we make the playoffs this year, the fans will accept MJ and the team decently.

Then, if we lose Ray and TT, and the pick, we have nothing next year. That means we suck, LB retires (after improving anyone left), we probably trade Jack to a contender, and have DJ/Hendo/Crash/Diaw/Nazr with UPS as a sixth man. That's awful. We get a good pick, and rebuild.

Why am I talking like this :confused: Just shoot me :facepalm: