Was there a better trade/improvement made by a team than the Captain Jack trade?

[polarcat]

Dude has come in and handled business seamlessly. He was averaging 16.5 in Golden State in a high octane offense, comes here....averaging 21.4. He's helped make Wallace better, added versatility and toughness to our line up, and to all the nay-sayers has kept his nose clean. I liked Raja, but seriously, he and Radman for a guy that has been nothing but a professional leader here + Acie Law. Most of us thought that Acie was nothing more than filler in a future trade, which helped us net T2. Yes we lost Flip, but since the T2 trade, we've gone 8-5 (haven't skipped a beat) and we're about to insert a marginally better player in the same role with Hughes. The first rounder stings, but with our history, who cares.... we can buy our way back into the mid-late first round.

Maybe I'm just high from the Orlando game, but watching Jack out there score at will, drive to the hole and pick the team up with Gerald down, it just dawned on me that the best deals aren't always made at the deadline.
Kudos to our front office...and I am usually one of the first to bash their lack of aggressiveness.

[ajbry]

The 16.5 PPG was only in 9 games - and clearly the circumstances were way off to begin with. He averaged 21 last year with the Warriors. Just wanted to get that out there.

I was surprised at all of the discussion initially regarding the change of system. It's not as if he had played in a Nellie system his entire career - he's actually had more experience in plodding, methodical, LB-esque offensive systems (Popovich, Carlisle) than fast-paced systems.

He's played exactly the way anyone would've expected him to.

[CarolinaBlue704]

I'm just glad he's a Bobcat.It was certainly one of the best trades made this season.

[teej]

I'm just glad he's a Bobcat.It was certainly one of the best trades made this season.

This.

And the Tyrus trade is quickly becoming the third or fourth best in the league, with the Butler/Haywood trade being second.

[mj4life]

Dude has come in and handled business seamlessly. He was averaging 16.5 in Golden State in a high octane offense, comes here....averaging 21.4. He's helped make Wallace better, added versatility and toughness to our line up, and to all the nay-sayers has kept his nose clean. I liked Raja, but seriously, he and Radman for a guy that has been nothing but a professional leader here + Acie Law. Most of us thought that Acie was nothing more than filler in a future trade, which helped us net T2. Yes we lost Flip, but since the T2 trade, we've gone 8-5 (haven't skipped a beat) and we're about to insert a marginally better player in the same role with Hughes. The first rounder stings, but with our history, who cares.... we can buy our way back into the mid-late first round.

Maybe I'm just high from the Orlando game, but watching Jack out there score at will, drive to the hole and pick the team up with Gerald down, it just dawned on me that the best deals aren't always made at the deadline.
Kudos to our front office...and I am usually one of the first to bash their lack of aggressiveness.
yeah i'm with you on this seeing that the only downside to jax is that at somepoint he could implode but the good thing is that our team is not full of players who need alot of attention and the team allows him to be himself within reason

[polarcat]

True teej, that Butler/Haywood deal was a pretty swift move. Ajbry, there were a lot of teams in the nba that didn't want Jack because of his potential to split a team, mess up a team's chemistry, etc. In a perfect world, yes, he's played exactly the way many hoped he would, but hindsight is 20-20. Good point on the systems though.....San Antonio and Indiana didn't run Wild West shootout style ball.

[TheBeagle]

This.

And the Tyrus trade is quickly becoming the third or fourth best in the league, with the Butler/Haywood trade being second. I gotta put Theo ahead of the Tyrus trade, especially considering what was given up to get each respective player. And no, it doesn't help that Tyrus has been showing his "pouty" side the last two games, but Theo has been beastly at the rim on both ends and is providing post defense like we've never seen in Bobcats history.....all that for a second rounder in the far-flung future. Me likes Theo!!!

[Chef]

my rankings of trades:
1. butler/haywood
2. jax
3. jamison
4. kevin martin + 2 #1's

[Toocool]

What I would do to push Theo's age backwards by 4 years...

Kevin Martin trade wasn't that good. Rocket's gave up Landry who is one of the toughest players I've seen in the game.

[Felton for Prez]

I gotta put Theo ahead of the Tyrus trade, especially considering what was given up to get each respective player.

I was thinking the same thing watching last nights game. For what we gave up, I would say the Jax trade was our best but I could argue that the best "value trade" was Theo. Give up nothing and get a lot back. I admit, I didn't think he's amount to squat. I'm glad I'm wrong.

[polarcat]

Theo truly has been a pleasant surprise and a bargain at that. He and Nazz are turning the clock back for sure. The fact that we can argue:
A) That we made 4 trades this season
and
B) They are all solid to the point that we have to figure out which one is better

Front office.....win

[ebrown]

I'm just glad we are not sitting here trying to figure out which of the trades we made was the worst one.

[Brown'sTown]

The Bucks have gone 14-1 since getting John Salmons. That trade certainly deserves consideration. They looked like they were done before, now they're looking like they'll hold 5th.

[WAM9]

I agree with most of the comments here so far. Look at what 5 players we had on the court last night for a significant minutes when it really mattered. 3 of those guys weren't on our roster when the season started (Theo, Tyrus and Jack).

We are clearly playing the best we ever have and to go into Orlando and win without Wallace says more than anything about our team. We have good depth for the first time ever and we seem to even be getting better.

The Bobcats front office has got to be in the running for front office of the year. Dallas and Milwaukee would probably be my other 2 to be mentioned.

Either way, we are kicking ass and taking names right now and it sure feeld good!

[ALong13]

Yeah John Salmons trade was an amazing trade for the Bucks. I don't think anyone would have expected the Bucks to be in 5th place and have gone 14-1 in their first 15 games with him. Salmons has deeply improved their team and just imagine them when Redd gets back and allows one of them to move to SF.

[Slam]

The Dallas trade has made them contenders.

The Buck trade has made them a lotto team to a top 6 team in the East.

The Jax trade was good, but if it wasn't for an amazing run in Jan and 6 in a row now we might be talking more about the Clippers game in LA than if this was the best trade of the year.

[onajourney]

One of the best parts of the Bobcats' trades this season is the amount of playoff experience it has added to the roster. Yes, Bell had been a key player on playoff teams before, but as we saw after he was traded, he wasn't going to make it through an entire season physically.

With the addition of Jackson, Ratliff and Thomas, the Bobcats gained players with 110 playoff games under their belts. That, along with all of the experience of actually getting to the playoffs, is paying dividends for this team and should in the playoffs as well.

[BRNC]

Butlar/Haywood was probably the "best" since it made Dallas relevant again and they (arguably) gave back little...but our deals have to be on par...

[ajbry]

The Buck trade has made them a lotto team to a top 6 team in the East.

Isn't that what the Jack trade did?

The Bucks aren't playing well exclusively because of John Salmons. Bogut deserves a lion's share of the credit, as well as Skiles. Salmons just provides them with a backcourt player with a pulse who could take some shots away from Jennings, who has been extremely inefficient this season. Their starting 2-guard for the bulk of the season was Charlie Bell - and Charlie Bell is awful.

[Slam]

Isn't that what the Jack trade did?.
Difference is though it's all happened with the Bucks from the moment Salmons arrived. We've had Jax all along. Sure we had that stunning 12-4 run in Jan but we also had that 5-8 run in Dec and that 4-7 run in Feb with Jax. All the Bucks have done is won (all but 2 or 3 games) since the trade.

Therefore, they, along with the Mavs, have the best trades by far.

That could all change though. Maybe the Bucks poop the bed and have a 10 game losing streak. That might put a very different slant on things.


The Bucks aren't playing well exclusively because of John Salmons.
-snip-
Their starting 2-guard for the bulk of the season was Charlie Bell - and Charlie Bell is awful
To me that says that Salmons has be a difference maker.

Bogut has been stunning - but he was that way before the ASG and before Salmons arrived. His stats are pretty much identical.

[spectre]

Stack has helped too hasn't he? I haven't watched any of their games but I did catch their top two scorers the other night and Stack had like 20 points.

Salmons would have my vote regardless...especially for what they gave up AND getting the pick swap. That could potentially move them up 6-8 slots.

[WAM9]

The Jax trade was good, but if it wasn't for an amazing run in Jan and 6 in a row now we might be talking more about the Clippers game in LA than if this was the best trade of the year.

But we DID have that run in January and we HAVE won the past 6 as well. Captain Jack has been as much a part of our improvement this year than anyone. Salmons has been a really nice addition for them but if you look at his numbers vs Jackson's, it doesn't really look close.

I would actually rank the deals as #1 Dallas, #2 Charlotte and #3 Milwaukee. I know Dallas lost a couple of days ago but before that, they were undefeated since the trade.

All 3 of these teams have done a great job to improve themselves and all 3 deserve a great deal of credit. I'm just glad the Bobcats are even able to be in this type of conversation.

[Marvel]

But we DID have that run in January and we HAVE won the past 6 as well. Captain Jack has been as much a part of our improvement this year than anyone. Salmons has been a really nice addition for them but if you look at his numbers vs Jackson's, it doesn't really look close.

I would actually rank the deals as #1 Dallas, #2 Charlotte and #3 Milwaukee. I know Dallas lost a couple of days ago but before that, they were undefeated since the trade.

All 3 of these teams have done a great job to improve themselves and all 3 deserve a great deal of credit. I'm just glad the Bobcats are even able to be in this type of conversation.


Blows my mind as well

[GoBobs]

The Jackson trade was by far the best simply because we got rid of Radman and his awful contract. I don't love Jackson. He takes to many bad shots. He throws terrible passes sometimes and if the other team talks smack it throws him off his game, but damn he plays well sometimes too. I still think we would be better off to trade him for someone a little younger if he looks good in the playoffs. There is always somebody that has playoff success every year and gets grossly overrated. Lately it has been Gotart, Trever Ariza, Courtney Lee, ect.

[Chef]

I would actually rank the deals as #1 Dallas, #2 Charlotte and #3 Milwaukee. I know Dallas lost a couple of days ago but before that, they were undefeated since the trade.


if the cavs win the championship it will be because of the addition of jamison. if they win causing lebron to stay, the jamison deal instantly becomes the best deal of the season.

[Walt Cronkite]

K$$$$$$ + picks and a top prospect to Houston for TMac's massive expiring and Carl Landry is my knee jerk reaction. It's affect cannot be measured until next season when Yao returns, but in the ultimate scheme of things I think it's going to be the one people think about.

That said, we've done an EXCELLENT job of upgrading our roster this season. Ratliff, Jackson and Thomas were all acquired for minimal assets, this is a great improvement on year's past.

I'm not that big of a believer in the Cavaliers, with or without Jamison, so I'm not going to suggest that's the trade of the season. I'm biased though, pretty much a LeBron hater (can't discount his game changing abilities, he's a phenomenal basketball player, just can't root for him.)

I guess I'd say the Haywood/Butler trade is Trade of the Season 1a because it makes the Mavericks a legit championship threat, with 1b being our Jackson trade because of the franchise improving/ losing stigma removing implications it's had.

[teej]

K$$$$$$ + picks and a top prospect to Houston for TMac's massive expiring and Carl Landry is my knee jerk reaction. It's affect cannot be measured until next season when Yao returns, but in the ultimate scheme of things I think it's going to be the one people think about.

That said, we've done an EXCELLENT job of upgrading our roster this season. Ratliff, Jackson and Thomas were all acquired for minimal assets, this is a great improvement on year's past.

I'm not that big of a believer in the Cavaliers, with or without Jamison, so I'm not going to suggest that's the trade of the season. I'm biased though, pretty much a LeBron hater (can't discount his game changing abilities, he's a phenomenal basketball player, just can't root for him.)

I guess I'd say the Haywood/Butler trade is Trade of the Season 1a because it makes the Mavericks a legit championship threat, with 1b being our Jackson trade because of the franchise improving/ losing stigma removing implications it's had.

I agree with a lot of this.

I think if we're talking long term franchise impact, Morey & co. probably did the best job with the Knicks picks (which are probably going to be lottery) and Martin, who will be the pure shooter Yao needs. But that's worthless this year. I think a lot of how it works depends on the lockout.

This season, I think the Jack trade or the Mavs trade is the best, and I'm going to go Jack because we looked like a top 10 lottery team before he got here. Mavs are contenders now, but they were still a very solid team without Butler and Haywood.

From what I've seen of Jamison, they aren't winning it all and if they do lose LeBron, their cap situation is so colossally fucked they won't win for the next half-decade or more.

Executive of the Year is a tough, tough vote.

[ajbry]

I still think we would be better off to trade him for someone a little younger if he looks good in the playoffs. There is always somebody that has playoff success every year and gets grossly overrated. Lately it has been Gotart, Trever Ariza, Courtney Lee, ect.

Clearly Stephen Jackson has never been in the playoffs...

[Dexmor]

Billups is close but Jackson is in the top 5 of the decade.

[Dexmor]

Did somebody just say Jackson never been in the playoffs? He has a ring from his Spurs days.

[teej]

Did somebody just say Jackson never been in the playoffs? He has a ring from his Spurs days.

AJ was being sarcastic because gobobs was talking about players who made lots of money in their first playoff experiences. Jack has made the playoffs 4 times, and started 54 playoff games, averaging 15.1 ppg, 4 rpg, 2.9 apg, and 1.6 spg.

[spectre]

Billups is close but Jackson is in the top 5 of the decade.

Welcome aboard Dex!

[murphman]

http://www.indystar.com/article/20100316/SPORTS04/3160318/1004/SPORTS/Where-s-the-love

[ajbry]

http://www.indystar.com/article/20100316/SPORTS04/3160318/1004/SPORTS/Where-s-the-love

It's tough to objectively assess his Pacers career.

Most notably, the two incidents he's known for (and the only incidents in his life) occurred when he was with Indiana. He, Artest, and JO - their three best players - were all suspended for the most games following the brawl. His playing style never meshed with Rick Carlisle's system, which was basically micromanaged in every sense of the word. He underachieved in '05-06 and was horrible in '06-07 (while his gun incident served as a major distraction) before being traded to Golden State.

However... in '04-05 he was able to keep the team afloat and was their leading scorer in the playoffs. His professional relationship with Carlisle was poor, but his personal relationship with Carlisle was great (after Jack was hit by that car, Carlisle was literally by his side during his surgery). Fans who met him were shocked because he was so approachable and friendly - and his reputation certainly didn't portray that image. He played through injuries all the time.


I can understand why Pacers fans still resent him, but most of them forget about everything else. It's just an odd balance and I suppose it'll always remain that way.

[Dexmor]

I don't think Jackson was in the wrong system. When he was a rookie on the Nets the coaching staff said this kid just doesn't have the skill level to be an nba player. He was cut. He is 31 years old and just made it 10,000 points.

What is really going is Jackson was a late bloomer and it took him until his prime age actually the end of prime age he is approaching to be this good. He is also this good because he is playing for the Bobcats a team with no go to guy who's best player gets his points from fastbreaks, put backs, open lanes and garbadge points and so many of the other players are really good 4th best players on a team.
It was the perfect situation for him. He got to be the go to guy, creator and shoot as muchh as he wants to. He often goes streaks of 25 points a game and I think outside of the Warriors or Knicks he wouldn't of been able to do that.

Jackson is really best as A 2nd or 3rd guy in a regular team but were so deep Wallace and Jackson can be the 1-2 punch and they are abe to go without the third because they got so many great would be 4th options like Ray-DJ-Diaw-Hughes-Tyrus.

Most teams have a big 3 we have a deep 9 which is better imo. Although If Wallace gets any better and really perfects his shooting and creates more for himself and others he could cross into superstar.

[Toocool]

TBH Crash has improved his shooting tremendously. His jump shot looks like crap but it's a lot more consistent,