View Full Version : Kind of OT - 2001 Draft's #1 overall pick...
polarcat
03-18-2010, 12:40 PM
...you are GM of the Wiz, who would you have taken? Kwame Brown had as much hype as Dwight Howard and could've been the first before Howard. Conversely, Howard could've be Kwame Brown as well. It's funny how so many "experts" "talking heads" and "analysts" rip Jordan for this pick, but it wasn't like Brown was expected to go somewhere in the top 10. 3 out of the top 5 were high school big men and the other big was a Euro.....which wasn't as sure of a thing as it is now. So, here's the top 10 from 2001 and without knowing that Joe Johnson and Pau Gasol would turn out to be who they are now, would you honestly not have taken Brown with that pick?
1. Washington- Kwame Brown, F, Glynn Academy
2. L.A. Clippers- Tyson Chandler, F, Dominguez HS
3. Atlanta- Pau Gasol, F, Barcelona
4. Chicago- Eddy Curry, F/C, Thornwood (Ill.) H.S.
5. Golden State- Jason Richardson, G/F, Michigan State
6. Grizzlies- Shane Battier, F, Duke
7. New Jersey- Eddie Griffin, F, Seton Hall
8. Cleveland- DeSagana Diop, C, Oak Hill Academy (Va.)
9. Detroit- Rodney White, F, Charlotte
10. Boston- Joe Johnson, G/F, Arkansas
I don't advocate that Jordan is the greatest GM/front office exec in the league, but I think he does get some unnecessary heat that is probably due in part to his countless successes on the court as a player.
ziggy
03-18-2010, 01:07 PM
Wow, that might be the weakest top 10 in the last decade.
At the time it wasn't that crazy of a pick, and I would wager that at least half of the GMs would have drafted Kwame at #1 also.
BigMike
03-18-2010, 01:10 PM
I aggree with polarcat....
SWedd523
03-18-2010, 01:21 PM
I did a little write up/analysis on the pick a few weeks ago. If I can find it I'll post it up.
Mustachio
03-18-2010, 01:50 PM
Wow, that might be the weakest top 10 in the last decade.
At the time it wasn't that crazy of a pick, and I would wager that at least half of the GMs would have drafted Kwame at #1 also.
I think more than half. i'd say 95% would have taken him. its a ridiculous criticism on Michael Jordans career, especially when you see how weak that top 10 is. I mean Kwame looked great for his age, had an unbelievable body type and was productive at his level. His potential was limitless at the time, and when you see that top ten it makes him even more worth the gamble.
Look, sometimes draft picks dont make it in the NBA. some kids just dont have the head for the NBA. If a guy does his due diligence in researching the kid, and its even a 70% agreement from other sources... then you can't blame the GM for the recruit not holding up his end of the bargain.
polarcat
03-18-2010, 02:10 PM
that top 10 is pretty damn awful. There are 2 all-stars, but then you get 2 guys that are out of the league, 4 albatross contract-laden bums, and then 2 solid starters. OUCH!
He does get way too much heat for picking Kwame. He had limitless potential, but obviously didn't have the work ethic and wasn't mature enough for the NBA. Unfortuantely, those things usually don't become apparent until it's too late. The only pick MJ should get heat for is Morrison.
GoBobs
03-18-2010, 03:05 PM
When you are drafting it is kind of hard to know what a player has between the ears because he is being coached up by so many people. That draft was also full of so many kids. It was a reach to draft them that high, but not nearly as much of a reach as trading two first round picks for Eddy Curry and then signing him to a huge deal.
I think if Oden continues his injuries his #1 will start getting the same scrutiny that Brown has...as SWedd said (think it was him) 95% of the GMs in that draft would have taken him first...I think (since he was not in the GM frat-boy club) MJ gets knocked when the other GMs know they'd have done exactly the same thing...I've always thought the way MJ was treated for that pick was BS...:facepalm:
GoBobs
03-18-2010, 03:26 PM
The Morrison pick however was terrible. That is the draft that really makes you cringe to know we could have gotten Roy or Gay even though we did pick up Tyrus in the end.
jdsingar
03-18-2010, 03:41 PM
IMO, I am probably taking Kwame, TC, or Eddy Curry with that pick. Good centers are always a need in the league, but they were especially needed in that time period because Shaq was the only dominant center.
The worst draft class of the last decade (and ever?) would have to be the 2000 draft. While the 2001 draft had some good picks and solid role players, 2000 had little to offer. The top 10 is filled with three good role players (Martin, Miller, Crawford) and the rest are either gone from the league or are bench warmers.
1.
Kenyon Martin (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/kenyon_martin/index.html), Cincinnati
New Jersey
2.
Stromile Swift (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/stromile_swift/index.html), LSU
Vancouver
3.
Darius Miles (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/darius_miles/index.html), East St. Louis HS (Mo.)
L.A. Clippers
4.
Marcus Fizer (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/marcus_fizer/index.html), Iowa State
Chicago
5.
Mike Miller (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/mike_miller/index.html), Florida
Orlando
6.
DerMarr Johnson (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/dermarr_johnson/index.html), Cincinnati
Atlanta
7.
Chris Mihm (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/chris_mihm/index.html), Texas
Chicago (1)
8.
Jamal Crawford (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/jamal_crawford/index.html), Michigan
Cleveland (1)
9.
Joel Przybilla (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/joel_przybilla/index.html), Minnesota
Houston (2)
10.
Keyon Dooling (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/keyon_dooling/index.html), Missouri
Orlando (3)
11.
Jerome Moiso (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/jerome_moiso/index.html), UCLA
Boston
12.
Etan Thomas (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/etan_thomas/index.html), Syracuse
Dallas
13.
Courtney Alexander (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/courtney_alexander/index.html), Fresno State
Orlando (4)
14.
Mateen Cleaves, Michigan State
Detroit
15.
Jason Collier (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/jason_collier/index.html), Georgia Tech
Milwaukee (2)
16.
Hidayet Turkoglu (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/hidayet_turkoglu/index.html), Turkey
Sacramento
17.
Desmond Mason (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/desmond_mason/index.html), Oklahoma State
Seattle
18.
Quentin Richardson (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/quentin_richardson/index.html), DePaul
L.A. Clippers
19.
Jamaal Magloire (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/jamaal_magloire/index.html), Kentucky
Charlotte
Dexmor
03-18-2010, 03:54 PM
Gasol because he had so much skills and the size and had those moves back then and was able to use 2 hands.
As for Kwame woulda ben a better prospect then Howard? NO. Not if you look closely at least. Kwame Brown had really small hands. He couldn't palm a ball. He had some flaws. Howard didn't really have any.
Gasol was a good pick...I was shocked when the Hawks traded him...:facepalm:
SWedd523
03-18-2010, 05:15 PM
Found the post I was looking for:
even Kwame Brown wasn't that bad of a pick. He showed steady improvement in his game and by his third year he was averaging 11 and 8 with promise to get even better. (He wouuld have been a college Junior, so not that bad) He eventually butted heads with Gil Arenas and it seemed to really shake his confidence.
When he was traded to the Lakers, and after Mihm went down, he was named starter and upped his averages to 12 and 9. He then started (and played well) in the playoffs that year. Phil even went as far as to name him the starter for the next year, above Mihm and Bynum.
He ended up being hurt for the next two years and since then hasn't done anything special. So yeah, 12/9 isn't what you'd expect from a number 1 pick, but it wasn't horrible either. (Mek is currently averaging 11/9)
I think people were just really looking for anything they could find to bash Jordan since they certainly couldn't make any comments about his time as a player. So, they latched on to Brown and his extremely high expectations and used him as a means to attack Jordan (which I think could have had something to do with Brown's underachievement).
And for that matter, wasn't Brown pretty much the "consensus" number 1 in that draft anyway? Looking back, the 01 draft didn't really produce much hyped American talent outside of Joe Johnson. (who went 10th) It did have good international talent, but at that time, people didn't have much faith in EURO players so they were undervalued. (Pau-3, Parker-28, and Okur-3
ammofan
03-18-2010, 05:17 PM
The Morrison pick however was terrible. That is the draft that really makes you cringe to know we could have gotten Roy or Gay even though we did pick up Tyrus in the end.
lets not start................
Scottley Crue
03-18-2010, 06:53 PM
The draft is an absolute crapshoot. If you have NBATV, look at the old drafts they show before the draft this year. It's interesting to look at them now with full knowledge of how the player's careers have turned out or are turning out. The thing I usually find is you may be surprised at how many "misses" there are.
JamieMcNeill
03-18-2010, 06:59 PM
Gasol because he had so much skills and the size and had those moves back then and was able to use 2 hands.
As for Kwame woulda ben a better prospect then Howard? NO. Not if you look closely at least. Kwame Brown had really small hands. He couldn't palm a ball. He had some flaws. Howard didn't really have any.
Mhm... Sure.... I bet you thought that then.
polarcat
03-18-2010, 09:40 PM
Mhm... Sure.... I bet you thought that then.
Hahaha....I was thinking the same thing when I read that. Euros back then were just as much (if not more) of a gamble than high schoolers. As for Howard not having any flaws coming out, I disagree with that too. He was the top talent in that draft, but I do remember comments about his maturity and if his athleticism/talent combo would be enough to translate to a successful nba career or would it be another "Kwame Brown" career. The only 2 sure things that I feel have been pegged in the last 10+ years of drafting has been King James and Greg Oden. However, Oden is turning into a huge bust considering he's been touted since his very early high school years. Every other #1 has been a somewhat sure thing with more boom than bust.
The draft is an absolute crapshoot. If you have NBATV, look at the old drafts they show before the draft this year. It's interesting to look at them now with full knowledge of how the player's careers have turned out or are turning out. The thing I usually find is you may be surprised at how many "misses" there are.
The "funniest" thing about the previous drafts is what they say about some of those guys (as they're drafted) and how their careers turned out...:p
The "funniest" thing about the previous drafts is what they say about some of those guys (as they're drafted) and how their careers turned out...:p
Exactly. "Greg Oden will be a Hall of Famer" "Marc Gasol will take time to develop into a role player"
Same draft, one was taken 1st overall, one was taken 48th overall. Guess who's having the better career :facepalm:
It's insane how these people call themselves experts. Chad Ford knows just as much about how these kids will pan out as the Queen of England.
Toocool
03-18-2010, 11:19 PM
You can never tell really how people will turn out in the end. Draft is always a gamble, you'll get busts and you won't. Sometimes you'll get lucky and get a gem, sometimes you wont. Oden isn't really a bust "yet." He turned it around this season before a tiny knock to his knee made it explode. Perhaps next year he can show how good he is, but who knows.
polarcat
03-18-2010, 11:44 PM
Chad Ford
is
teh
suck
Easily one in my top 5 least favorite ESPN writers/analysts. I'm guessing he's got some dirt on someone in Bristol because he flat out sucks.
Toocool...I'm not trying to say Oden will ever be considered a bust but if continues to get injured every year everyone will second guess him being picked over Durant...the injury he had in college worried some GMs (and I think correctly)...My son and I argued that draft (I wanted Durant because of my concerns about his future NBA health) and my son wanted Oden...Oden could have (and might still be a great pick) been a great pick but I would have taken Durant and been happy...
The knocks about the K. Brown pick were unjustified...he just took longer to develop and did not have the upside (pretty much) everyone thought he'd have...I don't think he (or Oden) will ever fit the "bust" category but probably will fit the "hindsight is 20-20" category...you (the universal "you" not saying you) can knock the pick but most GMs would have also picked them...:)
Toocool...I'm not trying to say Oden will ever be considered a bust but if continues to get injured every year everyone will second guess him being picked over Durant...the injury he had in college worried some GMs (and I think correctly)...My son and I argued that draft (I wanted Durant because of my concerns about his future NBA health) and my son wanted Oden...Oden could have (and might still be a great pick) been a great pick but I would have taken Durant and been happy...
The knocks about the K. Brown pick were unjustified...he just took longer to develop and did not have the upside (pretty much) everyone thought he'd have...I don't think he (or Oden) will ever fit the "bust" category but probably will fit the "hindsight is 20-20" category...you (the universal "you" not saying you) can knock the pick but most GMs would have also picked them...:)
About the only GM who would've taken Durant number one is Ainge (boy, would that have changed things or what?), but at this point Durant's status quo is better than Oden's highest dream.
And Oden is the next Sam Bowie...Durant might not be MJ, but he's playing pretty darn well.
teej...If I'd been a GM then there would have been two...:biggrin:
Every once in a while there are "bigs" that just make me nervous (health) and Oden was one of those...but if he'd (Durant) have gone #1 you know that the GM that drafted him would have gotten sliced and diced by the so called "analyst"...
Toocool
03-19-2010, 02:36 AM
Toocool...I'm not trying to say Oden will ever be considered a bust but if continues to get injured every year everyone will second guess him being picked over Durant...the injury he had in college worried some GMs (and I think correctly)...My son and I argued that draft (I wanted Durant because of my concerns about his future NBA health) and my son wanted Oden...Oden could have (and might still be a great pick) been a great pick but I would have taken Durant and been happy...
The knocks about the K. Brown pick were unjustified...he just took longer to develop and did not have the upside (pretty much) everyone thought he'd have...I don't think he (or Oden) will ever fit the "bust" category but probably will fit the "hindsight is 20-20" category...you (the universal "you" not saying you) can knock the pick but most GMs would have also picked them...:)
Yeah I understand where you're coming from now. I would agree with you about people second guessing Oden over Durant. They were both dominant in college, hard to say who would of been better. Although I would have gone Oden over Durant, since it's harder to find a good decent center with a good skillset (something Oden had) then a long skinny tall forward who can score.
Walt Cronkite
03-19-2010, 12:03 PM
I've definitely been on board with the logic presented in this thread for a while and thought it was an unfair criticism of Jordan's talent evaluation. It also leads me to believe that Ammo really was MJ deferring to Bernie and the crew that had been there so long.
And now, nostalgia:
I thought the Baby Bulls were destined to be AWESOME. A defensive, freaky athlete giant paired with a super talented low post scorer! Then the next year, they draft my favorite college baller of all time, Jason Williams. And then the wheels fell off as Jay ran into a tree. :( I also think the reason Chandler and Curry failed was because of them being added to the Bulls at the same time. The coach at the time (Floyd?) had a tough choice to make... develop them as overall players OR use their current skills and hope their all around games progress naturally. Bummer.
As for Kwame, I remember him being hyped as the next KG...a 7 foot Kobe. If only the news would've broken earlier that he had the hands of a person half his size...
Me and a friend were remembering the other day that Shavlik Randolph was nearly a first round pick as a senior out of Broughton. What a crazy era the "Let's take the kids!"era was!
SWedd523
03-19-2010, 12:28 PM
I have no doubt that had Jay not bought a bike, he'd be a top 5 PG in the NBA right now. It was scary how good he was in college and, as a UNC homer, I have no issue with saying he's one of my favorite all-time college players
110oldeast
03-19-2010, 01:26 PM
Jay Will was a beast in college, but was having challenges adjusting to the NBA game before he got hurt.
I think his mistake was messing with that Jordan locker. ;-)
That said, that was possibly the biggest mistake of UNC recruiting based on how it impacted each respective program.
ziggy
03-19-2010, 05:48 PM
Toocool...I'm not trying to say Oden will ever be considered a bust but if continues to get injured every year everyone will second guess him being picked over Durant...the injury he had in college worried some GMs (and I think correctly)...My son and I argued that draft (I wanted Durant because of my concerns about his future NBA health) and my son wanted Oden...Oden could have (and might still be a great pick) been a great pick but I would have taken Durant and been happy...
I fully expected Greg Oden to be the next Patrick Ewing. I feel awful for him that he is going down the same path as Sam Bowie.
For the record, I was an Oden over Durant guy during that draft.
The problem with the draft when K. Brown was taken...I doubt that any GM would not have made a mistake...Brown, Chandler, Gasol, and Curry were going to be the top four...Gasol is the only one of the four that justified his pick...but I'd be a liar if I said I'd have taken Pau (even though I liked him) as the #1...and I don't remember anyone thinking he should have been #1 during that draft...no matter which of the other three went (besides Gasol) #1 that GM was going to be "haunted" by the pick...:facepalm:
Powered by vBulletin™ Version 4.0.6 Copyright © 2013 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.