Who's the No. 1 Priority This Offseason?

[spectre]

...Tyrus Thomas or Raymond Felton. Is one needed more than the other? Should we make an equal attempt to bring back both? Let 'em both walk and go another route?

Give reasons/alternatives.

[Dexmor]

Tyrus Thomas. Tyrus if started would be as good or better then Ray right now, plus Tyrus Thomas has a much higher ceiling and big men are harder to come by.

[Felton for Prez]

I'll wimp out and say that whichever one isn't ludicrous with their contract demands should be the most important priority.

[Dexmor]

I think Tyrus should get about 5 years 40 million plus bonus insentives.

Felton 5 years 36 but the problem is that is only 2 million more then the midlevel which means Ray has to choose us.

If he plays really well in the playoffs maybe 5 years 40 million also.

[teej]

Tyrus.

I love Ray, he's a great guy, and I hope to God we get both back. But Tyrus is going to be better than Gerald if he works at it. Ray may or may not be the next Chauncey, I can see it at times, but I'm not that sure. Tyrus I am.

[CatNation]

I think they are both replaceable. Though I'd choose Tyrus because I think the long term focus of the franchise should be to find a way to get Chris Paul here. I don't know if it will be possible though..

[ammofan]

I think Tyrus is more important. Ray is good but he is easily replaceable. There are plenty of guys just as good as him that we can pick up. Also we have DJ who I think could be a starter on a few teams anyway.

[dav7z]

I think Tyrus should get about 5 years 40 million plus bonus insentives.

Felton 5 years 36 but the problem is that is only 2 million more then the midlevel which means Ray has to choose us.

If he plays really well in the playoffs maybe 5 years 40 million also.

Interesting subject,

Most, if not all seam to think TT . Im not so sure whitch player on and off the court best suits Brown. TT seams to have more up side but isn't close as far as heart and determination. DJ has proven hes not our answer as a starting point guard but is a good back up point.

Boris is our starting p/f as of this year and seems to play better when presured for position.

Dexmor welcome to Bobcatsplanet.
My question to you is how you come up with thease values.
Ray 5 years 36 million, and TT 5 years 40 million
Your saying Rays value a four year starter, is less than TT who has had only up side over the past four years . Though i assume coaching is what you are useing as a factor as well as size and position.

I don't like locking our self up five years on up side. I would feel much better signing TT to about three years . Somthing like 3 years 18 mil . That even scears me off some.
If Brown sees Felton as our long term point . Then im thinking five years at a flat 7 mil per year 35 million tops. Thats only if Brown plans on starting him.

Dex once again welcome , Spectre , other guys what kind of values do you place on thease guys??

[Toocool]

It would have to be TT for me. If Ray walks, it means DJ will start ( most likely with LH behind him if we resign him). However, the ceiling is damn high on TT and he's a prolific defender, shot blockers and rebounder. He brings truckloads of energy and is AGGRESSIVE at attacking the rim.

I love Tonberry, but it would have to be TT for me.

[ND22]

Both.

Ray bleeds Bobcat orange, that's something you almost never get with an NBA player. He's a leader, and a steady enough PG.

Tyrus has the upside, and has been very consistent since he's been here. He has the potential to be an All-Star one day.

[Walt Cronkite]

Voted for Tyrus in a shocker.

[GoBobs]

The problem being a gm these days is every player wants star money but very few are actually stars. On Felton I wouldn't go over about 6 mil per year and would prefer a 3 year but would probably go up to 5 unless he demanded a player option at the end. I think he likely turned down more last summer and will leave if he can get more.

The first question for Tyrus is do we offer him the qualifying offer which is 6 mil or so. I think 5 years 40 mil is a good top number for what he has done to date. I would rather have something similar to the contract marvin williams signed last summer, 5yr 32 mil I think.

[spectre]

I think Tyrus is more important. Ray is good but he is easily replaceable. There are plenty of guys just as good as him that we can pick up. Also we have DJ who I think could be a starter on a few teams anyway.

You know that's my next thread subject right? :p


I think Tyrus should get about 5 years 40 million plus bonus insentives.

Felton 5 years 36 but the problem is that is only 2 million more then the midlevel which means Ray has to choose us.

If he plays really well in the playoffs maybe 5 years 40 million also.

So you're willing to offer a guy 8 million per year for 5 years when his former team...who kept him for 4 years and was planning on letting him walk when one of their biggest needs is PF...after a 10 game tryout?

If the reports are true...you're also offering Felton 1 million less per than we offered last year when we don't have as much power over him. He's the best UFA PG out there this offseason.

It's not going to be "either/or"...at least not at first. It has to come in two steps, as the qualifying offer has to be made to TT before July 1st, but we can't talk to either of them about a new deal until AFTER July 1st. Unless we can get TT to sign a smaller deal for years I also suspect we won't be offering him a bigger contract over the QO unless someone comes along with a bigger offer. Why would we as we own his Bird Rights?

[spectre]

Dav...6.4 QO offer to TT for one season. Felton same contract we offered last year which was reported to be 7 per.

[etothet]

Dav...6.4 QO offer to TT for one season. Felton same contract we offered last year which was reported to be 7 per.

I like those numbers. I just hope Raymond still wants to be in Charlotte. There will be teams trying to get Ray in the off season. I think they are both important to Bobcat success. Based on the present, I would think Raymond is more important. Good point guards or few and hard to find. He has developed into a reliable and stable point guard. Tyrus has a great upside. LB will have a lot to do with his maturity. Right now, I think we could win without Tyrus for a 6 game stretch but I don't think we could without Raymond. If DJ was more consistent and could defensively handle the bigger point guards, this would probably not be a conversation.

[dav7z]

Dav...6.4 QO offer to TT for one season. Felton same contract we offered last year which was reported to be 7 per.

I like your numbers close to what i was thinking. Though i would rather lock him up up at 3 years 18 million or four years 20 milion last year a team option.

Remember guys this guy was in truble for the Bulls . And this is a hudge free agent class.
I like the 7 milion a year for Felton . But would prefer 4 years and a fifth player option.
This free agent class should present some great mid level player deals . It would be nice to lock both up with decent contracts.

[spectre]

If we went 7 average:

5.44
5.99
6.59
7.25
7.97
8.77

it would help our cap next year and would still be tradable at least within the first 3/4 years. Unless the boy absolutely breaks out tho I wouldn't want to be paying him those last couple of seasons.

That's slightly less than the full MLE, and considering that guys like Ariza get that every year this is probably pretty fair.

I know some want lesser years, but as we look to build/improve via trades vs FA/draft I don't see the length as a problem as we most likely won't carry it to maturity anyway.

[dav7z]

If we went 7 average:

5.44
5.99
6.59
7.25
7.97
8.77

it would help our cap next year and would still be tradable at least within the first 3/4 years. Unless the boy absolutely breaks out tho I wouldn't want to be paying him those last couple of seasons.

That's slightly less than the full MLE, and considering that guys like Ariza get that every year this is probably pretty fair.

I know some want lesser years, but as we look to build/improve via trades vs FA/draft I don't see the length as a problem as we most likely won't carry it to maturity anyway.

That would help the cap a little next year and seams fair considering next years market.
If we gave TT a four year at a flat 6 million a year . Last year a team option.
How bad off would we be siting cap wize ??
With the increase in TC , Diop, Nazz, Wallace ,JAX We still way over any other options beside leting one of those guys go ??

[dav7z]

We have very little wiggle room next season .
http://www.bobcatsplanet.com/vb/showthread.php?t=9529

Our salery outlook it looks bleak trying to sign both players.

Leting DJ walk might help the problem . Though i think its a bad option . And by no means fixes nothing.. Looking at the contracts . Do you numbers guys see any options.

[Slam]

I'll wimp out and say that whichever one isn't ludicrous with their contract demands should be the most important priority.
I'm with you FFP.

Play the numbers.

[spectre]

That would help the cap a little next year and seams fair considering next years market.
If we gave TT a four year at a flat 6 million a year . Last year a team option.
How bad off would we be siting cap wize ??
With the increase in TC , Diop, Nazz, Wallace ,JAX We still way over any other options beside leting one of those guys go ??

I see no way around doing a dump with an asset at the next trade deadline regardless. Using my numbers above and using Hendo/Nazr for the dump:

59 (salary as it stands) + 5.44 (Felton) + 6.4 (TT) = 70.8

- 2.1 (Hendo) - 6.9 (Nazr) = 61.8 million season ending salary...under the LT.

[DCW]

neither one deserves to be over paid, i like Felton but TT has got more upside. I think the reality is Felton will walk TT get s the QO and we make him earn his next contract

[polarcat]

i don't want to overpay for either and i hope both understand that their respective careers up to this point versus the time and assets that charlotte as put forth deserves consideration. as for the poll, i went with both as equal priority. tt for the presence, athleticism, youth and upside and ray for the warrior-like mentality, clutch veteran savvy and his leadership on the court.

[rsxnova]

We could sign TT for what he is worth then sign Felton to a small contract with for 4 years. MJ then gives Felton a Jordon Brand deal to make up the diff.

[TheBeagle]

I think they are both replaceable. Though I'd choose Tyrus because I think the long term focus of the franchise should be to find a way to get Chris Paul here. I don't know if it will be possible though.. I like the way this man thinks! Getting Chris here is DEFINITELY possible, but will the stars allign? He wants to play in his homestate; he's a Jordan Brand dude; Collison looks to be a great PG in the making. All these things look good for us, but our FO scares me still....

I'm still leary of Tyrus' attitude; I just can't read the guy. If he gets pissed at the refs, that's one thing, and I can take that, but he pouts when Larry takes him out, and sometimes it looks like he gets pissed at his teammates, and that's not kosher with me. Talent and potential aren't the question with me, it's what's going on between his ears, and let's face it, he doesn't have a good track record.

All that said, I vote Raymond, with the caveat that we get him at good value, so we can look to trade him when/if we make a run at Chris.

[spectre]

I like the way this man thinks! Getting Chris here is DEFINITELY possible, but will the stars allign? He wants to play in his homestate; he's a Jordan Brand dude; Collison looks to be a great PG in the making. All these things look good for us, but our FO scares me still....

I'm still leary of Tyrus' attitude; I just can't read the guy. If he gets pissed at the refs, that's one thing, and I can take that, but he pouts when Larry takes him out, and sometimes it looks like he gets pissed at his teammates, and that's not kosher with me. Talent and potential aren't the question with me, it's what's going on between his ears, and let's face it, he doesn't have a good track record.

All that said, I vote Raymond, with the caveat that we get him at good value, so we can look to trade him when/if we make a run at Chris.

I think some are ignoring Tyrus' history and are only looking at the dreaded "P" word. Facts are he's been in the league for 4 years already, still shows boneheadedness and right now is in NO way worth over 6 million bucks. He's also a backup PF, and we're comparing him to the only starter worthy PG on the roster. He's started developing into a very good PG under Brown...when some were adamant that he "is what he is".

If we let him walk we'd only have the full MLE to offer and be in competition with at least NY, Miami, Washington, Dallas, LAL and others. The options would be Luke Ridnour, Earl Watson and Steve Blake (before anyone says Lowry he's an RFA and Houston will match a MLE deal)...for basically the SAME money that some here don't want to pay Felton!

We'd still be over the luxury tax and we'd still have to dump an asset to move a contract.

If I'm doing that I for damn sure rather do it for Felton than for any of those other guys. He'd at least retain value and would be tradable. Those other guys are journeymen and won't ever be worth much.

I want and plan on us retaining both, but if there could be only one the choice is obvious.

[dav7z]

I see no way around doing a dump with an asset at the next trade deadline regardless. Using my numbers above and using Hendo/Nazr for the dump:

59 (salary as it stands) + 5.44 (Felton) + 6.4 (TT) = 70.8

- 2.1 (Hendo) - 6.9 (Nazr) = 61.8 million season ending salary...under the LT.

If we move Hendo or NAZZ . Don't we have to take back salery. I only seeing both of thease guys toghter saving about 2 million.

Is it possable to buy out say Chandlers contract. Hes suposed to make 12.5 million next season as a player option. If he agreeded could we buy him out at say six million . Would the other 6.5 million come off our cap ? Could one of you guys clarify?

[spectre]

If we move Hendo or NAZZ . Don't we have to take back salery. I only seeing both of thease guys toghter saving about 2 million.

Is it possable to buy out say Chandlers contract. Hes suposed to make 12.5 million next season as a player option. If he agreeded could we buy him out at say six million . Would the other 6.5 million come off our cap ? Could one of you guys clarify?

Chandler would never agree to that...no one leaves that much cash on the table.

What we have to do Dav is find a team under the cap as they can take on salary without sending salary back.

Think of the Jason Richardson trade we made with GSW. we absorbed like 10 million and only sent a 1st back. Under my scenario we'd be playing GSW's role and sending Nazr + incentive to a team under the cap for a pick.

[SWedd523]

dav in the offseason we wouldn't have to match the salaries in a trade. We'd be able to send whatever we wanted as long as both sides agreed to the terms

[spectre]

dav in the offseason we wouldn't have to match the salaries in a trade. We'd be able to send whatever we wanted as long as both sides agreed to the terms

IF the team taking on the salary is under the cap enough to absorb it.

[BRNC]

IF the team taking on the salary is under the cap enough to absorb it.

...and under this scenario Minny still (IMO...with 6 picks) remains as our best candidate...they probably will not pick up Blount or Milicic so they'll need some bigs...Nazr will be on the last year of his contract so no big risk for them...I just wonder if we could "package" Nazr/Lexi and get their first second...minimal risk for them and they get a veteran (that they need) from Nazr...can always wish I guess...

[spectre]

Tho I'd prefer Nazr's scoring next year over a 2nd round pick, IF Minny was willing to do that deal I'd definitely be down. Doing dumps for space is an iffy thing and we don't "know" we can get a team to do that at the deadline without wanting something crazy (like Hendo AND DJ).

A bird in the hand and all that.

[BRNC]

^...true...but I have a lot of "faith" in Kahn...

I'd rather keep Nazr and not package DJ, UPS, or Hendo just for a second round pick...

[spectre]

^...true...but I have a lot of "faith" in Kahn...

I'd rather keep Nazr and not package DJ, UPS, or Hendo just for a second round pick...

vs paying a tax bill and losing out on 5 million from the sharing?

It's not about the pick, but about retaining players who can keep us competitive while staying under the LT.

I must be misunderstanding your post.

[Talent]

Front load one contract and back load the other ;p

I can dream :biggrin:

[BRNC]

spectre...that assumes we find another way (through a different trade...for the sake of discussion) to stay under the cap...

Nazr/Lexy I'd be willing to trade to "some team"...and...we have no guarantee (without over-paying) that we can retain Ray...but I'd be reluctant (unless we absolutely have to) to include one of the other three players I mentioned...

Just stating my preference (disregarding what we indeed might be forced to do)...my preference would be Gana but that is beyond even "wishful thinking"...so Nazr/Lexy would be my preferred deal...

addition: The "my faith in Kahn"...I think the guy is clueless and given that I have no idea what he may/may not go for in a trade...

[spectre]

Ah! You're saying the most in assets you'd want to give up is Lex!

I hope that's all we have to pay but I'm not at all confident. I look at what Utah gave up to lose just some of the tax (starter) and what NY gave up just for an expiring, so I'd be pretty shocked if we got out with just giving up Lex.

But you never know. In my scenario it's "trade or pay tax" where we'd be more desperate. In your scenario we're trying to dump this summer before we make a decision on the FAs and you're using Nazr himself as a trade piece vs a dump.

I'm going more off of Jordan's "need a year to gel" statement, but who knows?

[BRNC]

I agree with you 100%...we will not deal from a position of strength...that's why I was stating my "best case scenario" and dealing with a guy like Kahn we might be able to pull it off...who knows...but if I'm Rod I'm already setting the guy up to do a deal before the draft...:biggrin:

[teej]

Maybe if we told him Henderson could play point guard he'd do Gana and Hendo?

[Muttley]

Maybe if we told him Henderson could play point guard he'd do Gana and Hendo?
Ha! Minny really can't have enough point guards, can they?

[teej]

Ha! Minny really can't have enough point guards, can they?

Imagine if they win the lottery, they basically have to pick John Wall. But how on earth do you manage that roster.

The first 5 guard team?

[Muttley]

Imagine if they win the lottery, they basically have to pick John Wall. But how on earth do you manage that roster.

The first 5 guard team?

Fire Rambis, hire the Ham Biscuit...

[Marvel]

TT for me.Let DJ start, yeah i said it,get some insurance for DJ through trade.I would certainly be pleased if TT started next season, over Doris too.

[BETCATS]

Felton.
He closes games for us, and is tied with Jackson for the title of "King of Clutch" on our roster. I love Tyrus and what he does for us, but Felton controls the output of everyone on the floor. Would you rather have Tyrus with DJ running the show or Felton with some other scrappy power foward?

I think we will get both back though.

[spectre]

http://espn.go.com/espn/elias?date=20100327


FELTON ON FIRE
Raymond Felton (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2753) made eight of 10 shots and had 11 assists on Friday after he went eight for 10 with eight assists on Wednesday. Felton is only the fourth player in NBA history to have consecutive games with eight or more assists while taking at least 10 shots and making at least 80 percent of them. The others to do it are Wilt Chamberlain (twice, in 1966 and 1968 ), Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (1976) and Terry Porter (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=668) (1991).

[ohara831]

I think they are both equal in priority. I want them both back. Ray has improved greatly throughout the year. And TT is a terrific PF compliment to Diaw. Diaw is better for the offense, and TT is better for the Defense. Let LB use them as the situations dictate. The depth now gives us more security at the PF position than we have ever head before.

[BRNC]

I think they are both equal in priority. I want them both back. Ray has improved greatly throughout the year. And TT is a terrific PF compliment to Diaw. Diaw is better for the offense, and TT is better for the Defense. Let LB use them as the situations dictate. The depth now gives us more security at the PF position than we have ever head before.

It would be nice to have them both but I voted Ray (since I'm looking financial at this point) assuming we can only resign one of them...IMO it would be more difficult to replace Ray given the constraints the team will face and keeping both will be difficult without a trade...