Bobcats Perception Around The State

[Wolfpackbobcat]

Hey, as you can see from my name, I go to NC State, love the pack, hate the tarholes, but also am a huge Bobcats fan. I was just reading through a thread about the Bobcats at NC State's forum, PackPride, about how the Cats cater only to the unc crowd..

http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=178&f=2515&t=5775824&p=1

What are your thoughts?

[May4prez]

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Posted: Yesterday 10:16 AM
RE: If the bobcats make the playoffs I will cheer against them

This perception of the Bobcats being a UNC pro team is absolutely stupid and I wish intelligent folks would stop with it. They have ONE Carolina player in Felton, Larry Brown, who hasn't been anywhere near UNC in decades, and Jordan as the owner. Boo effing hoo. They've become a fun team to watch and are playing some pretty decent basketball. Look around the league and you can find more Holes on other teams, like Dallas (Haywood & Jamison) or Cleveland (Green & Jawad Williams). The sun doesn't revolve around Chapel Hill, and inspecting rosters and staffs for signs of Carolina men to decide whether or not to pull for a team just seems ridiculous.
Marine 3, Chief 0


Last edited Yesterday 10:24 AM by rswilli2



Only one on there that is not an idiot.

[CarolinaBlue704]

That tread is sickening to read through. There were a few sensible posters, but the rest just sounded bitter.

The NBA is a business, if the 'Cats believe someone will help the franchise, then they will hire them regardless of where they went to college.

[jdsingar]

The Bobcats cater to people who like watching elite basketball players play the game. In other words, they are an NBA franchise. I don't quite understand the obsession within the state with college basketball. I grew up loving Carolina basketball for their talent and history. There is an immense amount of history within the programs in the state and the ACC. But when I ended up going to UNC-Charlotte my affiliations with the UNC program were essentially removed. There are so many people I know that love Carolina, Duke, State, and Wake...and have never went to college. I don't understand how that makes sense. It's even more disturbing to me this year when the ACC has put out such a terrible product. People still love to watch these horrible teams and act as they are untouchable.

Of course, the ACC players go to college and do not get paid to play..so they can't be thugs like all those crazy NBA players. Unless they become Josh Howard.

[BobCatsFanInTx]

What do you guys think about the team changing it's Charlotte name to Carolina?

In the very old days the name of the team in your state was the Carolina Cougars so why not at the least change the Charlotte part to Carolina? MJ has said he is open to changing the Bobcats nick name but none the less I would love to see the team name reflect all of the Carolina's.

I always hated that the only city in Colorado that would have pro sports franchises was Denver because the teams I followed were named Denver Broncos and Denver Nuggets. It just seemed to dismiss all of the state and those who would support those teams.

I don't get why states who only have one pro worthy city name the team after the city as opposed to the state. After all people of the state support the team and should feel more of a connection to their teams by the names given them.

If the team were at the least called the Carolina Bobcats that alone would make all the Carolina's feel like they were their team.

On a side note I could see the team once again called the Carolina Cougars. It has a great ring to it and seems to fit.

[BobCatsFanInTx]

The Bobcats cater to people who like watching elite basketball players play the game. In other words, they are an NBA franchise. I don't quite understand the obsession within the state with college basketball. I grew up loving Carolina basketball for their talent and history. There is an immense amount of history within the programs in the state and the ACC. But when I ended up going to UNC-Charlotte my affiliations with the UNC program were essentially removed. There are so many people I know that love Carolina, Duke, State, and Wake...and have never went to college. I don't understand how that makes sense. It's even more disturbing to me this year when the ACC has put out such a terrible product. People still love to watch these horrible teams and act as they are untouchable.

Of course, the ACC players go to college and do not get paid to play..so they can't be thugs like all those crazy NBA players. Unless they become Josh Howard.I never went to college but have always been a fan of college athletics. I started off supporting the expansion Charlotte Hornets because they were among the first pro expansion teams I was old enough to follow in my lifetime. Aside from that I liked their look and colors. Naturally, the Tarheels were a team in your state with a major following and I started to follow them. I have been a true fan since around 1989.

A lot of people like college sports and have never been to the schools they support, there is nothing wrong with that in my opinion. It is usually a case where a person supports a college in their home state but it does not have to be that way. I grew up in Colorado and have always been CU Buffalo fan but their basketball program is far from top notch or tradition laden. So aside form CU I found other schools I liked in basketball.

Growing up in Colorado the state did not have pro baseball or hockey so I rooted for teams outside my state.

College athletics is sort of professional in that there is a lot of money made by the schools athletic departments and the fan bases for the schools is far reaching. There does not always have to be a sensible or seemingly obvious reason to be a fan of anything.

When people support tennis players or golfers nobody assumes that those fans are from the same city,state or college of their favorite athletes. Why should team sports fans have to have some kind of connection to the teams city, state or college?

As far as the ACC being fairly weak this season that is no reason not to support an ACC college. Besides, more often than not that is not the case.

Those that are not supporting the Bobcats because of college allegiances are ignorant but being a fan of a college program should not be predicated on whether a person attended that school.

[Scottley Crue]

The Bobcats cater to people who like watching elite basketball players play the game. In other words, they are an NBA franchise. I don't quite understand the obsession within the state with college basketball. I grew up loving Carolina basketball for their talent and history. There is an immense amount of history within the programs in the state and the ACC. But when I ended up going to UNC-Charlotte my affiliations with the UNC program were essentially removed. There are so many people I know that love Carolina, Duke, State, and Wake...and have never went to college. I don't understand how that makes sense. It's even more disturbing to me this year when the ACC has put out such a terrible product. People still love to watch these horrible teams and act as they are untouchable.

Of course, the ACC players go to college and do not get paid to play..so they can't be thugs like all those crazy NBA players. Unless they become Josh Howard.

Man, you hit the nail right on the head for a lot of things. I've lived in this state my whole life and can't begin to understand how it's "bad" to cheer for a pro team in a town that is close to home...most likley, if you live within a 30 mile radius of Charlotte, I'd bet you've been there more than once in your life. But people (within that 30-mile radius) cheering for college teams that you know good and well they haven't even set foot on that campus...I just don't get that. Not that it's wrong per se, I just have a hard time understanding the thought process there.

I've been a big NBA fan since childhood and I've heard the same "thug" thing before (actually, a much worse word...I've had quite a few people over the years ask me how I can "watch those thugs (they didn't say thugs) run up and down the court. Mind you, they weren't that while in college.) Again, just a mindset that I don't get. It's stuff like that and the attitude like Urban Meyer had the other day that just turn me off to college sports. However, to each their own. I know I'll be in my seat cheering on the Bobcats, regardless of where any of them went to college.

[SWedd523]

Tex, part of the contract that was signed to bring basketball back to Charlotte had a clause that stated the name must have Charlotte in it. It's going to have to stay Charlotte for awhile unless they pay a chunk of money to get that stricken from the contract

[ND22]

Reading those responses by State fans is ridiculous, and is exactly what is wrong with being "loyal" to your college team. They see the Bobcats draft Raymond Felton and they're like, "What?!?! How could they!? They OBVIOUSLY are Carolina fan boys." How about, he was the best PG left in the draft? Sorry if no one thinks Julius Hodge is worth a damn.

In the professional world, not just professional basketball, it shouldn't be about what college someone went to, only that they are the most qualified for the job. I don't care if you went to New Jersey Tech, if you are the most qualified person you get the job. I'm sure these State fans would agree with this, but what they are saying about the Bobcats catering to Carolina contradicts that.

[teej]

If you guys haven't noticed, the fanatics for Duke, Wake, UNC, and State generally put logic to the wayside, and I don't really want them as fans of the 'Cats anyways. If they're too petty to put aside a 5 year old grudge in Ray's case or a 50 year old grudge in LB's case, then they can sit back and watch whatever college team they like and hit on 20 year old chicks while they do it.

As for us being just UNC? Ray, McInnis, and Fatass are the only Tarheels to suit up for us. By that logic, we're pro-Kentucky (DA, Bogans, Nazr) and pro-Michigan State (Alan Anderson, J-Rich, Steve Smith, Shannon Brown). LB is a Hall of Fame coach regardless of his school, and Hanners and Ford are well-traveled assistants. We may have UNC connections, but it's not our fault they have more talent than State.

[ND22]

If you guys haven't noticed, the fanatics for Duke, Wake, UNC, and State generally put logic to the wayside, and I don't really want them as fans of the 'Cats anyways. If they're too petty to put aside a 5 year old grudge in Ray's case or a 50 year old grudge in LB's case, then they can sit back and watch whatever college team they like and hit on 20 year old chicks while they do it.

How my eyes have been opened to this the past two years. I grew up a Carolina fan, but as soon as I got to UNCW my loyalty towards Carolina slowly faded away, and now the only reason I'll root for them is because I have a lot of respect for Roy Williams. Anyways, I look at the "rivalry" now and I see so many people who blindly root for one team or another. Rivalry's are about rooting against your rival but also respecting them. I can't stand how many people hate J.J. Reddick just because he went to Duke.

[ammofan]

What do you guys think about the team changing it's Charlotte name to Carolina?

In the very old days the name of the team in your state was the Carolina Cougars so why not at the least change the Charlotte part to Carolina? MJ has said he is open to changing the Bobcats nick name but none the less I would love to see the team name reflect all of the Carolina's.

I always hated that the only city in Colorado that would have pro sports franchises was Denver because the teams I followed were named Denver Broncos and Denver Nuggets. It just seemed to dismiss all of the state and those who would support those teams.

I don't get why states who only have one pro worthy city name the team after the city as opposed to the state. After all people of the state support the team and should feel more of a connection to their teams by the names given them.

If the team were at the least called the Carolina Bobcats that alone would make all the Carolina's feel like they were their team.

On a side note I could see the team once again called the Carolina Cougars. It has a great ring to it and seems to fit.


No this is Charlotte's team. Not North Carolina's team. The people of NC should cheer for the cats but there is no reason to call our team "Carolina". The Hornets were VERY successful with the name Charlotte. There is no reason we cant do it again with the Cats. I think a name change tho would be a good idea. I love the name Flight. Charlotte Flight.

[spectre]

This UNC/Duke/State thing is bred into kids before they hit grade school...I was a UNC fan not long after I was potty trained. I knew from the start with Johnson tying the team to UNC (murals, hard courtship of MJ) that it'd make getting the overall state behind them. This stuff is expected, but hopefully like other bandwagoners they'll hop on after we start making noise.

I worry more that the FO is so concerned with the UNC homerism charge that they'd neglect some that could actually help us.

[teej]

I worry more that the FO is so concerned with the UNC homerism charge that they'd neglect some that could actually help us.

With MJ looking to bring in James Worthy, I highly doubt that. :rolleyes:

I would be worried about them looking over Duke or State talent, but there is none. :o Just kidding, guys. Just kidding.

[CatNation]

people with blind college allegiances come off as complete morons to me. when I look at the pro game the last thing on my mind is what fucking college someone went to. its funny that they are cavs fans for Hickson, like he ever gave 2 shits about NC State

[WarioVsMooChicken]

That's the biggest turn off with college sports to me and one of the biggest reasons I don't really keep up with them too much.

People act like they are better than others simply because they root for another team. Hell, I even see people yelling and almost starting fights over it. I see so much bias when judging college sports. The same stuff is in pro sports as well, but not nearly as bad.

It just comes off as barbaric to me.

[jdsingar]

I can't stand how many people hate J.J. Reddick just because he went to Duke.

I hate him because he is a one-dimensional player and I had to hear about him all the time for 4 years. The same can be said for Hansbrough, but I respect his game a little bit more because he is more than a poor man's Steve Kerr like JJ. He is more like a rich man's Mark Madsen.

[spectre]

With MJ looking to bring in James Worthy, I highly doubt that. :rolleyes:

I would be worried about them looking over Duke or State talent, but there is none. :o Just kidding, guys. Just kidding.

Meant in the draft. Pretty sure MJ isn't about to go against his "friends of MJ" management style.

I think they passed on Hansbrough because he was from UNC. Granted he's had a screwed up season, but at the time we needed a backup PF & a backup SG...and I think the backup SG would have been easier to get via trade/FA.

[EC123]

Hey, as you can see from my name, I go to NC State, love the pack, hate the tarholes, but also am a huge Bobcats fan. I was just reading through a thread about the Bobcats at NC State's forum, PackPride, about how the Cats cater only to the unc crowd..

http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=178&f=2515&t=5775824&p=1

What are your thoughts?

My thoughts are that most State fans are idiots, even though I decided to attend NC State even though I have always been, and still am, a UNC fan.

The fact that UNC has had more players make it to the NBA, and several of those have ended up in Charlotte, doesn't mean that the Bobcats "cater only to the UNC crowd" any more than State's Ag Institute caters only to people who have to eat to survive.

It's just a product of reality.

[Walt Cronkite]

I'd say the doubling up on UNC players in the lottery after they won the national championship would be a possible gimmick you could point to as "catering to the UNC crowd". LB, not as much.

McMinus was terrible, but I don't think that counts. Can't think of any more UNC guys that have been on the roster.

[Wolfpackbobcat]

My thoughts are that most State fans are idiots, even though I decided to attend NC State even though I have always been, and still am, a UNC fan.

The fact that UNC has had more players make it to the NBA, and several of those have ended up in Charlotte, doesn't mean that the Bobcats "cater only to the UNC crowd" any more than State's Ag Institute caters only to people who have to eat to survive.

It's just a product of reality.


Hmm :paddle:

[Brown'sTown]

I'd say the doubling up on UNC players in the lottery after they won the national championship would be a possible gimmick you could point to as &quot;catering to the UNC crowd&quot;. LB, not as much.

McMinus was terrible, but I don't think that counts. Can't think of any more UNC guys that have been on the roster.

I actually don't think picking Felton and May was about that. Bernie said pretty clearly in pre draft interviews that he was taking Paul, Williams or Felton at 5 and the other two went before him. At 12 May would have been a steal if his knee didn't get so fucked up. He had a lot of skill for a guy his size and was very effective in his short semi healthy spans his first two seasons. Now he's totally shot which sucked for us, but I can't blame the front office. They didn't know that would happen.

[Brown'sTown]

I'd also like to add that the morons who complain about the Bobcats catering to UNC fans are probably the same morons who don't watch NBA because "no one plays defense" or "no one plays hard". In all likelihood, those who are complaining probably don't keep up with the team or the NBA and have no clue what they're talking about.

[Walt Cronkite]

I actually don't think picking Felton and May was about that. Bernie said pretty clearly in pre draft interviews that he was taking Paul, Williams or Felton at 5 and the other two went before him. At 12 May would have been a steal if his knee didn't get so fucked up. He had a lot of skill for a guy his size and was very effective in his short semi healthy spans his first two seasons. Now he's totally shot which sucked for us, but I can't blame the front office. They didn't know that would happen.

Perhaps we'll have to agree to disagree, but I definitely think taking May and Felton in the lottery on the back of their national championship was in part a marketing ploy. I don't think it's fair to say that the Bobcats are catering to the UNC crowd anymore, but I understand why the casual local college fan would have that impression. These are definitely the same people that think NBA teams don't play defense though.

[WAM9]

I can't speak to the absolute crazy comments from some rabid State fans but I can tell you this...

I live and work daily all over the Triangle. 3 years ago, if I wore some bobcat apparel, no one said a word. Last year if I wore something that said Bobcats, most everyone ignored it but the few that said something had mostly negative things to say. Now, over the past few months, when I wear something Bobcats, lots (and I mean lots) of people want to talk about the team making the playoffs and how much they think LB is doing a great job. It is like someone flipped a switch or something. I know we always talk about the bandwagon filling but, it is really filling up! I went in a gas station (right on the Durham-Chapel Hill line) a couple of days ago with a Bobcats shirt on and all of the sudden, I was in a Bobcats conversation with 4 other people. Hard to believe how far things have come and it is only going to become more and more evident as we make our first playoff appearance.

Also, Ammofan, I disagree completely with your blunt assessment of this being Charlotte's team, not the State's. I think of this team as my own even though I haven't lived in Charlotte since 1996. Of all the conversations about hotel taxes and how the arena was funded, I would hope that everyone would acknowledge that this is a group effort and it takes more than just Charlotte to support it and be successful. I'm not for changing the name from Charlotte to Carolina but I do think the team "belongs" to all of us.

[Walt Cronkite]

I can't speak to the absolute crazy comments from some rabid State fans but I can tell you this...

I live and work daily all over the Triangle. 3 years ago, if I wore some bobcat apparel, no one said a word. Last year if I wore something that said Bobcats, most everyone ignored it but the few that said something had mostly negative things to say. Now, over the past few months, when I wear something Bobcats, lots (and I mean lots) of people want to talk about the team making the playoffs and how much they think LB is doing a great job. It is like someone flipped a switch or something. I know we always talk about the bandwagon filling but, it is really filling up! I went in a gas station (right on the Durham-Chapel Hill line) a couple of days ago with a Bobcats shirt on and all of the sudden, I was in a Bobcats conversation with 4 other people. Hard to believe how far things have come and it is only going to become more and more evident as we make our first playoff appearance.

I think the games actually being available to watch makes a huge difference here. No one was seeking out streams to watch a team that had fringe playoff hopes last year if the drive to see them live was a 3 hour one. Winning definitely helps, but I think it's worth mentioning.

[WAM9]

I agree with you. This season, I get almost every single game (Time Warner) but my brother who has Dish Network, gets almost none of the games and he lives across the street from me. The TV situation is much better but it still has a long way to go.

[110oldeast]

I think that people are continually mistaken in lumping Felton and May as 1 pick. I will say as a UNC fan and alum that I thought drafting Felton made sense with them needing a pg for the future. That said, I was hoping for them to draft Granger as the 2nd pick, as I at that time thought Mek would turn into a NBA PF. I later came to see that May's skillset was what was needed at PF, as Mek had and would continue to have a C's game. However, I thought they stood by May way too long and did not address the need for a modern day pick and pop PF and said it all the time. I saw May as a partial marketing ploy when drafted, but Felton was not. That said, if May had stayed healthy, it would have been our best draft (not involving the trading of picks) by far (instead of by a slim margin). They were 2 separate picks and folks' inability to look at them as 2 instead of 1 has skewed their perception of the drafting and the Carolina "favortism."

I also think the front office was cognizant of the Carolina backlash. For that reason, they drafted Henderson as a partial concession. He kind of fit as a sg, but they needed one with greater shooting and scoring ability. Considering the fact that the team needed a PF and a 2g with shooting/scoring ability, Henderson could be considered to be more of a fan catering pick (to the appease folks hung up on Carolina loyalty) than Felton and as much of one as May, at a minimum. Heck, Ammo was more of a gimmick pick, but he did theoretically fit the scoring wing position they were looking for at the time.

In the end, I don't think there really has been much catering to the UNC crowd as folks say. The marketing of the Carolina angle clearly rubs some the wrong way, which I understand. As far as looking at the involvement of UNC folks in team operations of whatever fashion, folks need to look around the NBA. Check the front offices, coaching staffs, and players. There are UNC folks everywhere. Only in Charlotte and NC does the UNC factor come into play as much.


I'd say the doubling up on UNC players in the lottery after they won the national championship would be a possible gimmick you could point to as "catering to the UNC crowd". LB, not as much.

McMinus was terrible, but I don't think that counts. Can't think of any more UNC guys that have been on the roster.

[ND22]

I can't speak to the absolute crazy comments from some rabid State fans but I can tell you this...

I live and work daily all over the Triangle. 3 years ago, if I wore some bobcat apparel, no one said a word. Last year if I wore something that said Bobcats, most everyone ignored it but the few that said something had mostly negative things to say. Now, over the past few months, when I wear something Bobcats, lots (and I mean lots) of people want to talk about the team making the playoffs and how much they think LB is doing a great job. It is like someone flipped a switch or something. I know we always talk about the bandwagon filling but, it is really filling up! I went in a gas station (right on the Durham-Chapel Hill line) a couple of days ago with a Bobcats shirt on and all of the sudden, I was in a Bobcats conversation with 4 other people. Hard to believe how far things have come and it is only going to become more and more evident as we make our first playoff appearance.


That's great to hear. In Wilmington, I don't think a lot of people really follow the Cats, most here are caught up in the shit show going on with finding ourselves a new basketball coach and how incompetent our AD is. But to hear these stories about people stopping you to talk Bobcats is encouraging.

[spectre]

Perhaps we'll have to agree to disagree, but I definitely think taking May and Felton in the lottery on the back of their national championship was in part a marketing ploy. I don't think it's fair to say that the Bobcats are catering to the UNC crowd anymore, but I understand why the casual local college fan would have that impression. These are definitely the same people that think NBA teams don't play defense though.

You'd be wrong.

Bernie wanted one of the PGs and a PF...one of May or Charlie Villanueva. He brought in both of the two forwards twice trying to make up his mind. He also knew that Paul & Williams were most likely going before his pick, and he also knew that Toronto was targeting the exact same players he was...and they picked at 7th. He also knew LA had their eyes on May at 10th.

If he picked CV Toronto would have picked Felton; if he picked the PG they'd take CV. The next best PG was Jarrett Jack and he was projected to go in the later picks of the 1st round.

You could tell he was uncertain going up to the draft; he brought in both CV & May a 2nd time right before. Felton supposedly called Bernie the day of the draft begging him to choose him. Bernie picked him at 5th (most likely for lack of an alternative PG), Toronto took CV, LA took Bynum and that left May at 12th.

Bernie was interviewed after the draft and he was asked about Granger and he said he was scared off because of the knees (irony)...Granger was never an option (nor was my choice for 12th...Green). He also said that if LA had taken May he would have taken Joey Graham who Toronto ended up picking 16th, again reinforcing we were eying the same players...maybe because they'd just taken our asst. coach as their head coach?

Bernie was also asked if them being UNC players had anything to do with it and you could see the question literally pissed him off. He did say that the marketing dept. was probably happy tho.

Bernie was as transparent as they come during the draft. We knew who he was targeting then and we knew he was taking Ammo (MJ coming in made it interesting for a bit however). Go back and read the Bobcats' writeups...Bernie literally "gushed" about Ammo.

I was personally hoping Portland would take him and we'd then take Gay (Bernie's 2nd choice)... but hopes were dashed again.

[EC123]

I'd say the doubling up on UNC players in the lottery after they won the national championship would be a possible gimmick you could point to as "catering to the UNC crowd". LB, not as much.

McMinus was terrible, but I don't think that counts. Can't think of any more UNC guys that have been on the roster.

If there had been State players in the draft after winning a National Championship, whose to say they wouldn't have drafted them?

I repeat...it's a product of REALITY.

[BRNC]

I'm not sure (after reading through the thread) what the actual question is but...

My part of the state only a handful of us think about the 'Cats...and none in terms of "college teams" but in terms of "a professional BB team"...

The Bobcats have not been pitched (IMO) to many other parts of the state and I would guess that (in a perfect scenario) they would not feel the need since there are enough fans/money in the immediate Charlotte are to carry the team...

I'm in no position to speak about why other fans support but I wanted a "pro" team to support...I live here...so I support them...

The college stuff...I supported my college(s) when I went there...I always hope they do a good job but I'm not much for living off of where I've been...

[Walt Cronkite]

...but I definitely think taking May and Felton in the lottery on the back of their national championship was in part a marketing ploy

You'd be wrong.

Bernie was also asked if them being UNC players had anything to do with it and you could see the question literally pissed him off. He did say that the marketing dept. was probably happy tho.

:confused:

[Walt Cronkite]

If there had been State players in the draft after winning a National Championship, whose to say they wouldn't have drafted them?

I repeat...it's a product of REALITY.

Then they'd be criticized for catering to NC State fans. When you double up in the lottery of your second draft in a divided basketball hotbed like NC, you're bound to alienate some fan bases. What's the saying about first impressions?

Again, I'm not saying the perception should exist these days, just that I understand why it does.

[BETCATS]

Has their ever been a NC State player worth drafting with the pick we had?
The only 2 i can think of that have been drafted since we became a team are Julius Hodge and JJ Hickson. We didnt need Hodge and Hickson was drafted as a project.

Maybe if NC State had better players we would draft one. If Tracy Smith goes undrafted, i hope we pick him up for our summer league squad though.

[Walt Cronkite]

Has their ever been a NC State player worth drafting with the pick we had?
The only 2 i can think of that have been drafted since we became a team are Julius Hodge and JJ Hickson. We didnt need Hodge and Hickson was drafted as a project.

Maybe if NC State had better players we would draft one. If Tracy Smith goes undrafted, i hope we pick him up for our summer league squad though.

I think we're speaking hypothetically.

[Wolfpackbobcat]

tracy wont go undrafted

[spectre]

:confused:

I don't know why you'd be confused as those two are easily separable. Bernie didn't make the choices for marketing purposes but he understood that it could be good for marketing.

Your statement insinuates that Bernie made the choices because of marketing which wasn't the case.

BTW, we did want Hickson but he was picked before ours came up.

And no, that wasn't for marketing either...tho maybe it would have helped.

[Walt Cronkite]

Your statement insinuates that Bernie made the choices because of marketing which wasn't the case.

Does it???

"...but I definitely think taking May and Felton in the lottery on the back of their national championship was in part a marketing ploy"

No, it doesn't. I don't insinuate that Bernie made the choices because of marketing, I think we were legitimately interested in both players... they fit needs and were projected as comparable talents to the other players that were available. That is my point, actually. If all things were equal amongst the available selections, it was all too convenient to pass up the opportunity to take two players from the team with the largest fan base in the area. That just won a national championship only made it an easier decision, they'd really get blasted as sell outs to the UNC fans if Illinois wins the NC. For an expansion team struggling for fans that needs players at every position, this was too convenient to pass up when Paul and Williams were gone and May lasted to 12 but Villanueva was gone. Thus, the selection was in part a marketing ploy. Not because of, or entirely because, but in part.

[CatNation]

tracy wont go undrafted

Yes he will. And I'm a pack fan. (if I had to pick a college team..)

[spectre]

Does it???

"...but I definitely think taking May and Felton in the lottery on the back of their national championship was in part a marketing ploy"

No, it doesn't. I don't insinuate that Bernie made the choices because of marketing, I think we were legitimately interested in both players... they fit needs and were projected as comparable talents to the other players that were available. That is my point, actually. If all things were equal amongst the available selections, it was all too convenient to pass up the opportunity to take two players from the team with the largest fan base in the area. That just won a national championship only made it an easier decision, they'd really get blasted as sell outs to the UNC fans if Illinois wins the NC. For an expansion team struggling for fans that needs players at every position, this was too convenient to pass up when Paul and Williams were gone and May lasted to 12 but Villanueva was gone. Thus, the selection was in part a marketing ploy. Not because of, or entirely because, but in part.

You don't insinuate that Bernie made the choices because of marketing...but then your entire post says exactly that!

Just because Bernie acknowledged that the choices would help marketing does not equal Bernie making the choices because of marketing.

We needed a PG. There were NO PGs available until Jarrett Jack which was a big downgrade from the other 3. Bernie took the remaining PG. If Felton had been chosen before our pick then Bernie would still have taken the remaining PG.

That wasn't due to marketing even "in part"...that was due to need.

Just like the May pick. There weren't any other PFs available at 12 either.

[Wolfpackbobcat]

Yes he will. And I'm a pack fan. (if I had to pick a college team..)


late 2nd round i think if he improves his jump shot next year

[CatNation]

late 2nd round i think if he improves his jump shot next year

If the top 60 players every year actually got drafted he'd probably get in the 2nd round, but seems like more and more every year teams throw away their 2nd rounders on those overseas bums that never come over. Tracy will have to earn his way on a summer league team or through the D-League imo

[Muttley]

If the top 60 players every year actually got drafted he'd probably get in the 2nd round, but seems like more and more every year teams throw away their 2nd rounders on those overseas bums that never come over. Tracy will have to earn his way on a summer league team or through the D-League imo
Man, I love Tracy, and I really hope he makes it to the next level. He's got good post moves, but he's going to have to overcome height issues to make it in the NBA. It's certainly possible, but at 6'8", it's tough to do. He's got a 5' jumper, but I'm guessing he'll need to stretch that about 10 more feet to make a real case for himself. The effort and willingness to grow as a player is certainly there.

[Walt Cronkite]

Spectre, I don't even know how to respond at this point. I think I've been pretty clear with my opinion, but that we've been going back and forth even twice is concerning. I insinuate nothing, I'm pretty clear with what I write. The Bobcats did not select May and Felton because they wanted to appeal to UNC fans.

We needed help from top to bottom, the idea that we needed a pg and pf is one you are perpetuating from what is known in hindsight. If the team was so desperate for a pg, we would've moved up to get the local prospect that was unanimously the best pg prospect in the draft.

Felton and May were players the Bobcats were interested in that were available when the Cats were on the clock. I'm not suggesting that we went into the draft thinking "If Felton and May are available at 5 and 12 we're selecting them, no matter what!" I am suggesting that when they were both available and the other guys were around, we didn't hesitate to make the decision and viewed their collegiate affiliation as a plus. This was going to turn off a good number of potential fans for a season or two and make even more skeptical of decisions from that point going forward.

Again, for I think the third time in this thread... I don't think the Bobcats make moves to cater to UNC fans, but I understand where that perception comes from.

Not really sure how differently I can say it, I've been pretty consistent here.

[spectre]

Spectre, I don't even know how to respond at this point. I think I've been pretty clear with my opinion, but that we've been going back and forth even twice is concerning. I insinuate nothing, I'm pretty clear with what I write.
The Bobcats did not select May and Felton because they wanted to appeal to UNC fans.
I'd say the doubling up on UNC players in the lottery after they won the national championship would be a possible gimmick you could point to as "catering to the UNC crowd".


Perhaps we'll have to agree to disagree, but I definitely think taking May and Felton in the lottery on the back of their national championship was in part a marketing ploy.


Thus, the selection was in part a marketing ploy. Not because of, or entirely because, but in part.All these quotes by you are saying the same thing?


We needed help from top to bottom, the idea that we needed a pg and pf is one you are perpetuating from what is known in hindsight. If the team was so desperate for a pg, we would've moved up to get the local prospect that was unanimously the best pg prospect in the draft.No, I'm going off of what Bernie said all thru the process. The guy was an open book...if not by word definitely by deed.

If you'll remember we DID explore moving up, but Bernie considered the cost too high. He also didn't think there was that much difference between the top 3 PGs:


(On point guards Raymond Felton, Chris Paul and Deron Williams) Those are three guys that by consensus are the three best point guards, and I don’t think there’s much separation between the three. I don’t think we’ll have much control over it.After the draft:


I don’t know the last time you had three great point guards go back-to-back like that. In our opinion, there was never the disparity between the three point guards.Before the draft he said he'd most likely take "one big and one small". If he'd have taken CV at 5th what PG was he going to get? After the draft he said emphatically that they had wanted a PG:


(On what kind of players he is interested in) Where we are right now, we feel comfortable if we decide to go small with the point guards. That could change as we go along, but we’ve got to make a decision whether we want to go small with the fifth pick or whether we want to go big. There are some intriguing big people that we’ll bring in. But we’re comfortable that we’ll get two good players.
What we wanted was a point guard. We felt good about Felton. We’ve been pretty consistent that we’ve been comfortable with Felton.
(On why he especially wanted a point guard) I just think up the middle, those are the important basketball positions. Brevin did a terrific job last year, and I do think that the mentoring situation with a young guard, it’s a perfect opportunity for a small guy to understand how to survive in this league. I think that’s a perfect marriage. All this stuff is on the Bobcats' website under Draft Central.

[Walt Cronkite]

All these quotes by you are saying the same thing?

Not sure what you're trying to point out. I do not think the Bobcats selected Felton and May BECAUSE they wanted to appeal to UNC fans. I do think the selection was made in part of their National Championship run for UNC. As I've written, if UNC loses to Illinois, the Bobcats would get really slammed for taking Felton and May. If ever there was an excuse to do it, do it off the back of a NC run. Again (x4), Felton and May were not taken BECAUSE they won a championship at UNC, but it was a factor in the selection. We were not an established franchise, whenever you bring guys into the organization you're thinking on a larger scale than who is the best basketball player. There were riskier options with higher upside, but May and Felton fit a need, weren't really reaches at their selection... and just so happened to be relevant to the local fans. Super relevant. Really don't see how you aren't getting this.



No, I'm going off of what Bernie said all thru the process. The guy was an open book...if not by word definitely by deed.

If you'll remember we DID explore moving up, but Bernie considered the cost too high. He also didn't think there was that much difference between the top 3 PGs:

After the draft:

Before the draft he said he'd most likely take "one big and one small". If he'd have taken CV at 5th what PG was he going to get? After the draft he said emphatically that they had wanted a PG:

All this stuff is on the Bobcats' website under Draft Central.

What do you expect Bernie to say, especially post draft? "Well, we really wanted Paul to fall to us, but we're happy with Raymond. He's a comparable talent and we really didn't want to reach on Jarrett Jack!"??? "We loved Villanueva, but he was gone so we liked May the second most." That's real welcoming of a team where almost any lottery pick would've been a talent upgrade.

I know we thought of moving up, but Bernie was unwilling to sacrifice two lotto picks to really get the guy he wanted, or at least one of the two guys we really valued.

Why are you arguing about this? I've made my point clearly, but here it is again with some different words:

I don't think we are a franchise that caters to UNC fans, but I don't think it's unreasonable for local basketball (not NBA, local basketball) fans to have an inaccurate perception that the Bobcats cater to UNC fans. I know for a fact that the reason people think this is because of the Felton/May selections, not MJ or LB or Brandon Wright, but because of Felton/May in draft #2 on the heels (pun intended) of a national championship.

[spectre]

(On point guards Raymond Felton, Chris Paul and Deron Williams) Those are three guys that by consensus are the three best point guards, and I don’t think there’s much separation between the three. I don’t think we’ll have much control over it.


(On what kind of players he is interested in) Where we are right now, we feel comfortable if we decide to go small with the point guards. That could change as we go along, but we’ve got to make a decision whether we want to go small with the fifth pick or whether we want to go big. There are some intriguing big people that we’ll bring in. But we’re comfortable that we’ll get two good players.

He said these before the draft.


Not sure what you're trying to point out. I do not think the Bobcats selected Felton and May BECAUSE they wanted to appeal to UNC fans. I do think the selection was made in part of their National Championship run for UNC.

...and I'm saying he took them because of need; it had nothing to do with UNC OR the championship. Bernie was pretty straight forward throughout the process and the two players he took fell right in line with that.

[Walt Cronkite]

That is adorable.

[SWedd523]

That is adorable.

No









http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn72/Dylansprousesangel/Animals/Beagle.jpg


That is adorable.

[spectre]

That is adorable.

:confused:

I gave you all sorts of things pointing to Bernie making the selections based on need vs marketing.

I guess "That is adorable" is about as good a comeback as any.

[kickazzz2000]

I'm just gonna have to get IN on this...