Flip wants back in Charlotte

[SirBobcat]

From ESPN Insider and Charlotte Observer:

"Ex-Bobcat Ronald "Flip" Murray (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1777) said before the game he'd happily come back to Charlotte next season if the Bobcats were interested in signing him again. He will be a free agent and he was obviously a big part of the Bobcats, both on and off the court, before they were forced to use his salary slot in the deal that brought power forward Tyrus Thomas (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3032) here from Chicago."

He would be a welcome addition to a cash strapped team. For being such a journey man, i'm glad to see Flip really liked it in Charlotte and would like to stay aboard.

[Walt Cronkite]

His agent added, "Of course, Flip would happily come back to any NBA city next season if its team was interested in signing him."

[jam]

and with the bulls potentially signing a big free agent,,we could essentially snatch him from the bulls,,

[Wolfpackbobcat]

flip flip flip murray for vet min

[mrtarheel]

Would love to have him back. Hughes is the bigger of the two but Flip's shot is well seems to be alot better than Larry Hughes right now

[Fred Williamson]

yes please.

[teej]

yes please.

:o

Schnitzel supporting a possible transaction?? What?? LOL.

Only thing is we can't offer him the BIE, so it'd have to be part of the MLE...

[TheBeagle]

It was cool that he got such a good reception when he entered the game Wed. night. However, I'd rather see Hughesy get healthy over the summer and come back than Flip....I mean, as bad as his shot has been, his defense is light years better than Flip's could ever be.

Ultimately, it comes down to $, and if Flip will be significantly cheaper to sign, I'll gladly have him back.

[spectre]

:o

Schnitzel supporting a possible transaction?? What?? LOL.

Only thing is we can't offer him the BIE, so it'd have to be part of the MLE...

Right, and if we're as cash strapped as I imagine we will be then I don't know that we'll spend any of that. I think it's more realistic that we'll be stocking our roster with vet min guys.

Speaking of money:

10 Players Who Will Get Rich from the NBA Postseason (http://dimemag.com/2010/04/10-players-who-will-get-rich-from-the-nba-postseason/)


4. Tyrus Thomas — Literally from the moment he hit the floor with the Bobcats, Tyrus has been a spark of energy and defensive intensity. More importantly, under Larry Brown he’s been able to prove that he’s coachable. The offensive game still isn’t where some would want it to be, but Tyrus turns 24 this summer and still has the athleticism and potential to draw a lot of attention on the market.
10. Ray Felton — He’d rank higher, only I don’t see him having a postseason breakout while the Bobcats are getting smoked by Orlando. Felton has played well against the Magic this year, averaging 13.5 points and 5.0 dimes in four meetings, but barring a sudden explosion, nothing he does this postseason will have too much impact on his free-agent fortunes. But just getting those playoff games under his belt certainly won’t hurt his case.

I can't imagine anyone offering TT more than the QO, but there are a lot of teams out there with free capspace. Still, we get first dibs on him...and he'd be way smart to want to hang with LB for another year.

Sounds like they're setting a low bar for Felton and that does make sense...he's had a great regular season. If he could actually break out he really could get paid.

[Ampsportsduo]

I can't imagine anyone offering TT more than the QO, but there are a lot of teams out there with free capspace. Still, we get first dibs on him...and he'd be way smart to want to hang with LB for another year.

Not sure if this has been discussed, but to me the biggest thing holding TT back is his ego being stroked on the offensive end. If he ever decided to be Ben Wallace (a rich man's Ben Wallace?) he could be second only to Josh Smith, who just signed a hefty $60 million contract before the season.

[BRNC]

If TT would stop "falling in love" with his jump shot and keeps his ego in check he'll be a very good player...back to Flip...

I like Flip...and I know Hughes (who I also like) is bigger and better defensively I'd still like to have Flip...he seemed to work better (chemistry-wise) with the team...

[GoBobs]

I like his jump shot, it's that driving hook I am not so sure about.

[Chrystos]

:o

Schnitzel supporting a possible transaction?? What?? LOL.

Only thing is we can't offer him the BIE, so it'd have to be part of the MLE...

The world must be coming to an end ! :o

[teej]

If TT would stop "falling in love" with his jump shot and keeps his ego in check he'll be a very good player

Actually, his mid-longrange jumpers are statisically a smart shot, he's over 40% there. It's his jumpers from right around the FT line that are bad.

[Demon DeaCat]

I'd gladly take Flip back of we could get him on the cheap. He's a huge reason why we're in the playoffs right now. That being said, Hughes has started to grow on me. He's been knocking down his J's the last several games and his size, athleticism, and defensive presence certainly add a nice dimension. As long as we can get one of the two of them back, I'd be happy either way.

[Wolfpackbobcat]

Anyone still want Flip?

[CatNation]

yessir too bad I dont think we can afford him

[ammofan]

Flip flip flip!!!

[spectre]

(http://nba.fanhouse.com/2010/07/18/jason-collins-expected-to-re-sign-with-atlanta/)Sources also named Cleveland as among the teams interested in free-agent guard Flip Murray. Murray is also said to be receiving interest from the Clippers and Chicago, (http://nba.fanhouse.com/2010/07/18/jason-collins-expected-to-re-sign-with-atlanta/) which he played for last season. FanHouse.com (http://nba.fanhouse.com/2010/07/18/jason-collins-expected-to-re-sign-with-atlanta/)


Can't read the site here...but we're not listed as an interested party.

[WarioVsMooChicken]

We have 3 PGs and 3 SGs, we don't need Flip

[ND22]

We have 3 PGs and 3 SGs, we don't need Flip

This. I liked Flip, but he didn't play that well. Lets see Hendo, UPS, and Carroll get his minutes.

[Demon DeaCat]

We have 3 PGs and 3 SGs, we don't need Flip

Flip is significantly better than 2 of our 3 shooting guards and while not a pure PG, he was more effective overall than DJ was last year. Livingston is probably a better pure PG, but there are questions about his durability. I don't know who our 3rd PG is unless I've missed a recent transaction.

Given all that, I would disagree with the thought that we don't need Flip, but ultimately it's probably a moot point because I don't think we can afford him on the 2 mil or so left on our MLE. I think he'll get more than that from one of the other teams pursuing him.

[Ampsportsduo]

I understand the numbers game, but this team is better with Flip on the roster. Here's to hoping a trade happens soon so picking him back up becomes more justifiable.

Counting on Carroll to be a "sharp shooter" is not promising. Not only is he a defensive liability he doesn't shoot well in spot duty. There will not be a surplus of minutes for him, so this limits his value tremendously.

Henderson or Livingston shooting 3's? No.

Collins was a streaky shooter in college and struggled shooting in the majority of games when facing top talent. Will he be able to make an open 3? Yes. Can he create his own shot or hit a contested 3? I'm not nearly as confident.

That leaves DJ and Jack. Flip clearly filled a role with these two on the roster last season and he could certainly do the same this season.

[dvdbumpus]

So...why don't we just sign Flip to be our #3 SG and 3 point specialist, and have Matt be the #3 SF who's also a 3 point specialist. Matt's done better in offensive production as a SF. Problem solved...now we'd have a roster looking like this:

PG:
DJ
Livingston
Collins

SG:
Jax
Henderson
Flip

SF:
Wallace
D. Brown
Matt

PF:
Diaw
Thomas
Mcguire
Najera

C:
Dampier
Nazr
Diop

Unknowns (still on bobcats website, likely all will be gone though)
Hughes
Stephen Graham
Theo Ratliff

Assuming those 3 aren't kept, Flip is signed (doesn't seem likely as sources don't mention the bobcats have interest) and nothing else happens, we have 13 players signed and need 2 more. Am i missing anything?
Diop

[spectre]

I think we only have like 1.8 million left of the MLE.

[teej]

I think we only have like 1.8 million left of the MLE.

Livingston is 2yrs/7 million, but the article also said 3/10.5 so it's 3.5 flat on him.

Last year the MLE was 5.85, cap went up this year so I'd assume there's still about 2.4 mil left on the MLE.

[TheBeagle]

As I said in the Livingston thread, for reasons articulated by Amp, I'd much rather have Flip back than bringing in Livingston. (Not saying you went this far with the argument, Amp, just saying your reasons for bringing Flip back are reasons why I wanted him over Livingston.)

Thinking about it though, I guess both could co-exist well in terms of interchangeability between 1 and 2...

Still, Flip's the better option for the team.

[Muttley]

I really like Flip. Having him on the team definitely increases the team's balls-to-player ratio, and balances the normal deficit that Boris brings to the table. That said (and I know others have mentioned it) but I'm a bit confused with not yet having signed Livingston to a deal. We can save that discussion for that thread, but as it could pertain to Flip in that maybe he would take less than Livingston. After all, last year's contract was for the bi-annual. I'm not convinced that Flip and Livingston are mutually exclusive pieces, and I'm not convinced that Matt (as much as I like the guy) is long for this team.

[spectre]

Livingston is 2yrs/7 million, but the article also said 3/10.5 so it's 3.5 flat on him.

Last year the MLE was 5.85, cap went up this year so I'd assume there's still about 2.4 mil left on the MLE.


Mid-Level Exception: $5.765.000That's from Tam's thread.

I'm with you on Livingston for 3.5, but you're not including McGuire. I was figuring 500k...but now you went and made me look. :p

11. What are the players' salary restrictions? (http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#Q11)


There are both minimum and maximum salaries, and both are based on how long the player has been in the league. The minimum salaries scale upward each season. Here are the minimum salaries: From the nice chart for 2 years (per the above) he's due $854,389 at the minimum salary.

Now, do we pay all that or does the league kick in like they do in vet min contracts?


When a player has been in the NBA for three or more seasons, and is playing under a one-year, ten-day or rest-of-season contract, the league actually reimburses the team for part of his salary - any amount above the minimum salary level for a two-year veteran. For example, in 2005-06 the minimum salary for a two-year veteran is $719,373, so for a ten-year veteran, with a minimum salary of $1,138,500, the league would reimburse the team $419,127. Only the two-year minimum salary is included in the team salary, not the player's full salary. They do this so teams won't shy away from signing older veterans simply because they are more expensive when filling out their last few roster spots....so we're actually on the hook for every bit of it.

3,500,000 + 854,389 = 4,354,389

5,765,000 - 4,354,389 = 1,410,611 or 1.4 million left.

[Ampsportsduo]

I really like Flip. Having him on the team definitely increases the team's balls-to-player ratio

Or as we in the biz call it, BPR.

what biz? I don't know.
It sounded good at the time.

[teej]

I'm with you on Livingston for 3.5, but you're not including McGuire. I was figuring 500k...but now you went and made me look. :p

3,500,000 + 854,389 = 4,354,389

5,765,000 - 4,354,389 = 1,410,611 or 1.4 million left.

Yes, but I don't think minimum's count for the MLE.

[spectre]

Yes, but I don't think minimum's count for the MLE.

I know veteran minimums don't, but since he's less than 3 years would he?

[Ampsportsduo]

If signing a guy for the min, best to wait until the end because you can always sign players to min contracts regardless of cap situation. Just ask the Heat.

[Ampsportsduo]

I know veteran minimums don't, but since he's less than 3 years would he?

I believe the 3-year rule for minimum salaries relates only to League reimbursement of a salary.

[spectre]

I believe the 3-year rule for minimum salaries relates only to League reimbursement of a salary.

I think you both are right...at least I can't find anything clarifying it differently.

So...we're back to 5,765,000 - 3,500,000 = 2,265,000 or 2.3 million left.

We could take that and sign Flip (which I'd be fine with), but we can't forget about the C position unless we can cover that in trade.

[Ampsportsduo]

From the Grail:

"MINIMUM PLAYER SALARY EXCEPTION -- Teams can offer players minimum salary contracts even if they are over the cap. Contracts can be up to two years in length. For two year contracts, the second season salary is the minimum salary for that season. The contract may not contain a signing bonus. This exception also allows minimum salary players to be acquired via trade. There is no limit to the number of players that can be signed or acquired using this exception."

[Muttley]

Or as we in the biz call it, BPR.

what biz? I don't know.
It sounded good at the time.
BPR! I like it. This team needs a higher BPR.

[teej]

"MINIMUM PLAYER SALARY EXCEPTION -- Teams can offer players minimum salary contracts even if they are over the cap. Contracts can be up to two years in length. For two year contracts, the second season salary is the minimum salary for that season. The contract may not contain a signing bonus. This exception also allows minimum salary players to be acquired via trade. There is no limit to the number of players that can be signed or acquired using this exception."

Yeah, and the "no limit" part says to me it's not part of the MLE, since it's possible to spend more on vet min's than the MLE is.

[Proudiddy]

Apparently, we don't want Flip back...

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/rumors/post/Three-teams-want-Flip-Murray?urn=nba,257027