Ranking the NBA's best coaches [Archive]

View Full Version : Ranking the NBA's best coaches

SWedd523

04-17-2010, 01:43 AM

How do we pick the best coach in the league? I'll go through my breakdown and pick my top guys, let me know if you have different specifications or lists. I'd like to see where we think LB stacks up with the rest of the guys out there.

1. There are 3 teams in the NBA. 4 of them either have recently fired their coach, or have interim coaches. None of those teams are in the playoffs. Let's assume that it's safe to eliminate those guys. List goes down to 26.

2. Tenure. There are seven guys who haven't coached at least 5 years in the league. They don't have enough time under their belts to make an accurate measurement of their abilities. The candidates get reduced to 19

3. Wins. It's one thing to coach for a long time. It's another to be a winner for a long time. O'Brien, Woodson, and Gentry have win % under .500. The list goes to 16.

4. Win Totals. This is a combination of the two above. Some guys may have a solid W/L, but simply cannot compete in terms of tenure with some off the more established guys. 500 wins minimum. List shrinks to the top 10.

Now that we have it down to a manageable number. Let's start ranking:

1. Four guys have won championships, which is really the ultimate goal. So let's start by moving those guys to the top. Phil (with 10) is of course at the head. Since LB and Doc tie, we'll go by win total.

2. I tend to value tenure a little more than percentages. I'll use my backwards math to combine the two to adjust the remaining six guys. Let's see what we have:

Phil Jackson
Gregg Popovich
Larry Brown
Jerry Sloan
Don Nelson
George Karl
Doc Rivers
Mike D'Antoni
Rick Adelman
Flip Saunders

Not bad. But I think that in addition to statistics, the eyeball test is an important measurement. Is Doc "Tank for the #1 Pick" Rivers better than some of the other guys below him, even though he has a ring? Simply put, no. So let's move him down. Then you look at D'Antoni above George Karl and you think, "Well that's not right." So we switch those two around.

Finally, respect. Is this order correct when it comes to the respect factor? For the most part, yes (which gives a little credibility to my analysis :g:) I think the top 6 is hard to argue with. All are widely respected around the league. The lower 4 are either younger guys still working on a reputation, or have flaws that prevent them from being top shelf coaches.

Now it's time to tier these guys out. Well..... Phil is first (by a landslide) in rings. He's first in win %. Both while only being 6th in terms of tenure. Safe to say he's the best, in a tier of his own even? Yes.

Pops and LB are the other ring winners in the top 5. LB has more years and total wins, Pops has more rings and a higher %. Pops has had better teams to work with, but we can't hold that against him. They slide in at the second tier

Sloan, Nellie, and Karl are all tenured guys with great win % that all command great levels of respect. They just haven't come through with the rings whether it be from bad timing (MJ era) or a style that doesn't necessarily suit the playoffs (Yes, defense wins championships). Tier 3.

The remaining four guys are still up in the air. Doc has a ring, but doesn't have a ton of respect around the league. D'Antoni hasn't been coaching long enough to make a huge name for himself. Adelman and Saunders have been around for awhile, but the jury's still out on their abilities. These guys belong in tier 4.

1. Phil Jackson (19 years, 1098-460, .705, 10 rings

2. Gregg Popovich (14 years, 736-362, .670, 4 rings
3. Larry Brown (26 years, 1088-884, .552, 1 ring

4. Jerry Sloan (25 years, 1189-776, .605, 0 rings
5. Don Nelson (31 years, 1335-1063, .557, 0 rings
6. George Karl (22 years, 986-671, .595, 0 rings

7. Doc Rivers (11 years, 789-433, .646, 1 ring
8. Mike D'Antoni (8 years, 589-322, .647, 0 rings
9. Rick Adelman (19 years, 889-571, .609, 0 rings
10. Flip Saunders (14 years, 587-400, .594, 0 rings

teej

04-17-2010, 02:17 AM

The fact that Mike D'Antoni and Flip Sauders are on that list and Scott Skiles is not renders it worthless. Skiles is the next Larry Brown.

But I'll critique it and add my own anyways...

First, Phil has rings because he's never coached a bad team. He quit and let Rudy T coach the Lakers when they were rebuilding. He's an above average coach, but grossly overrated. He's had two of the greatest ever (MJ and Pippen, Kobe and Shaq) on every championship team but one. Not even having Kobe on his team could get him out of the first round the first two years after he came back. He's not known for getting the best out of players, but rather picking players who fit in his style of play. He's a great "manager" but not a good "coach."

Pop is excellent, he and LB are the most proven in "coaching" their guys. Pop has always had a premier big man, but Patrick Ewing has told us that's not enough. The supporting cast Pop has set up has been a bunch of overacheivers every year. Manu was the next to last pick in the draft, TP was the 28th pick, he had guys like Bruce Bowen (undrafted, switched teams 4 times in 6 seasons before going to the Spurs), Nazr Mohammed, Stephen Jackson (out of the league for three years before the Spurs got him), etc. play way above expectations, and he is a genius for finding talent.

Let me put it this way, I'd be shocked if Alonzo Gee, Ian Mahimni, DeJuan Blair, George Hill, and Garrett Temple don't have 10+ year careers. On the other hand, I'd be surprised if DJ Mbenga, Luke Walton, Sasha Vujacic, Josh Powell, and especially Adam Morrison are playing 5 years from now.

So on that note, here are my top 10 active coaches

1. Gregg Popovich
2. Larry Brown
3. Jerry Sloan
4. Rick Adelman
5. Don Nelson
6. George Karl
7. Scott Skiles
8. Phil Jackson
9. Stan Van Gundy
10. Mike Woodson

Honorable Mention: Scott Brooks, Alvin Gentry (both will probably be on the list soon), Rick Carlisle, Nate McMillan, and Erik Spoelsta.

Oh, and Swedd: there are only 30 teams in the Association...

SWedd523

04-17-2010, 03:03 AM

Phil has won more rings than any other coach in NBA history. That's ever. He has over double the amount of rings the next guy has and has won 70% of his over the course of his career. He's also NEVER..... had a losing record in 19 years on the job. Also, he's the only guy who's been able to master Tex Winter's triangle offense to any sort of effectiveness. NBA.com rated him as the 4th best coach in history. The only other active coach on that list? Nellie at 6th. Sure he's had some unbelievable talent. But I'd say he's done a pretty great job of keeping the egos in check and kept them on a winning path. Let's not get away from the ultimate goal here. NBA Championships.

Sloan had Malone, Stockton, Hornacek, Russell, and Foster. He's never won a ring. Adelman had Clyde, Walton, Ainge, and Porter. He's never won a ring. Don Nelson has a losing record in the playoffs. Karl has had some insane talent and doesn't have a ring. Skiles has been a coach for 10 years and hasn't made it out of the semis. His only 50+ win team lost in the first round. He's not better by Phil, by a huge stretch. He may be a great coach down the road. But right now? Not quite.

Toocool

04-17-2010, 04:58 AM

I'm with Teej on this one. I pretty much agree with just about everything he has to say. World would of ended if I agreed with him fully :biggrin:

teej

04-18-2010, 04:21 AM

Let's not get away from the ultimate goal here. NBA Championships.

I understand that, but if winning is everything for judging how good of a coach you are, then I think KC Jones would be more highly rated than Jerry Sloan.

All I'll say is this: Coaching means making your players better. Phil Jackson isn't good at that. Pop, LB, Skiles, etc. are.

Marvel

04-26-2010, 12:03 AM

Personally i think Red is the greatest coach ever, but i digress.
I disagree with Teej,PJ is the greatest coach still coaching today.You don't coach a team to a championship by happenstance.Like Swedd i value championships more than anything else it's the ultimate goal for players and coaches.And i don't really see LB as a coach who makes players better not with EO50,Felton.He brings out the intangibles in players like hustle,effort and defense but he doesn't really make players better.

BRNC

04-27-2010, 05:22 PM

Teej...I'd have to think Jackson makes players at least "play together" better...if not better...the Lakers were laughable when Jackson was not there...

teej

04-27-2010, 07:03 PM

Teej...I'd have to think Jackson makes players at least "play together" better...if not better...the Lakers were laughable when Jackson was not there...

Which years? He quit when they went through the rebuilding process...

BRNC

04-28-2010, 01:37 AM

teej

04-28-2010, 01:45 AM

...when did the Lakers stop rebuilding? kobe is really the only constant there...they have no bench...I'd rather have ours...I like Gasol but Bynum is a walking injury waiting to happen...

Give the guy credit teej...he's a good if not great Coach who gets players to win together...

I meant back in 04/05/06 when they had guys like Kwame Brown, Chucky Atkins, and Brian Grant.

He is a GOOD coach. He is a GREAT manager of talent.

I'll just say this. If he was forced to coach the Bobcats, or even a Lebron-less Cavs, he'd be in the lottery.

BRNC

04-28-2010, 01:54 AM

SWedd523

04-28-2010, 02:14 AM

Top 6 are definitely Phil, Pop, LB, Sloan, Nellie and Karl, they've clearly separated themselves from the rest of the league. Phil distinguishes himself for obvious reasons. How about changing the gameplan to put Kobe on Russell Westbrook tonight? Went from losing two in a row to a 30 point blowout. He had that team playing very nicely tonight.

Managing all of the egos and prima donnas is half the work with an NBA team where "coaching" isn't necessarily as important because grown men will play however they want (within a system).

teej

04-28-2010, 02:24 AM

any coach that had to "coach" those teams might be in the lottery...heck...we could be in the lottery again with the "wrong" coach and no trades...:confused:

...teej given your criteria I'm not sure I'd call Pop anything more than a great coach of talent...what's he done without it?

Maybe I'm just a hater. I don't know. But when I think of Pop, I look at what he's done with guys the rest of the NBA has rejected. He has three lottery picks on his team, one of which was a pick before Pop became a coach IIRC (Dice). Dickhead (RJ) was traded for expiring contracts. Duncan is the only one who was anywhere close to the top when he became a Spur. Dice is on the downside, Jefferson was considered worn out and overpaid, and everyone else was either a mid-to-low first rounder, a second rounder, or an undrafted D-League call-up.

Phil, on the other hand, has 5 lottery picks, and the only undrafted players he has were 4+ year vets by the time the Lakers got them. Only 3 players on his entire team weren't selected in the first round. And do I need to go into how many highly rated players he had in Chicago? MJ, Pippen, Rodman, Horace Grant, John Paxson, Steve Kerr, Ron Harper, John Salley, etc. Rarely did he have guys overperform...

BRNC

04-28-2010, 10:45 AM

I forgot to put one coach in that has proven a lot to me this year so I've added him to my list...

Phil Jackson
Gregg Popovich
Larry Brown
Jerry Sloan
Rick Adelman
Don Nelson
George Karl
Mike Woodson
Nate McMillan
Doc Rivers
Scott Skiles
Mike D'Antoni

I think it would be hard for any team to go "wrong" with any of these guys as their coach...of course much depends on what kind of FO they have to work with...

teej

04-29-2010, 04:54 PM

152. Phil Jackson
Took until Game 5 for him to say, "Maybe I should put Kobe (my best perimeter defender) on Russell Westbrook (the guy who's killing us) and shift Derek Fisher (who can't defend anyone) to Thabo Sefolosha (who can't score and seems mildly terrified)." Actually, he didn't say it -- Kobe told him, "I'm guarding Westbrook tonight." Here's where the Lakers fans say, "Come on, Phil was saving Kobe's legs!" Hooey. Had the Lakers pounded OKC inside (where they have an overwhelming advantage) and controlled Westbrook, they would have swept the series. Pretty sure that would have saved Kobe's legs. At the very least, they could have thrown Kobe on Westbrook in the Games 2 and 3 crunch times.
(Here's a good rule of thumb: If Jeff Green is defending Pau Gasol, you might want to get Pau Gasol the ball. In Game 2, Kobe took 28 shots, Gasol took 14. The next game, Kobe took 29 shots -- Gasol took nine. On what planet does this make sense? Not a good month for everyone in the "Kobe's finally getting it!" camp.)

Interesting...

ND22

05-01-2010, 03:13 AM

Glad you added Skiles to that list, he is a great coach. I would personally put Nate McMillan and Doc Rivers ahead of Mike Woodson, IMO they've accomplished more than Woodson has. Also, Stan Van Gundy needs to be on there as well, he may not have coached as long, but he's done some good work in both Miami and Orlando.

BRNC

05-04-2010, 01:45 PM

ND22

05-05-2010, 07:13 PM

ND...the reason I put Mike above Doc and Nate;It may be true that the Hawks have a team with great athletic ability but if you compare the BBIQ of the Hawks against Nate or Docs' teams the Hawks flat out suck...I think Mike has done a better job with what he has to work with and from where he brought the franchise...just my opinion but that's why I did it...

I see your point especially in comparison with Doc, because now that I think about it his stint with Orlando wasn't the best. However, I look at what Nate did with the Blazers this year with all the injuries they suffered, that's a tough situation and they still managed not to fold.

Now that I look at it more closely all 3 could be essentially be tied together, because all 3 have had their share of failure and success, the one thing you could give Woodson in all of this however is that the Hawks have gotten better every year under him.

BRNC

05-06-2010, 01:55 AM

ND22

05-06-2010, 12:13 PM

The fact that "Woody" had to work the franchise up is the only reason I ranked him there...I have a good deal of respect for him...but I'm a big Nate fan also...like them both better than Doc as coaches...but I'm not a Doc hater by any means...he has some tough egos to deal with in Boston...

You gotta give some credit to the Hawks FO for sticking with him, I'm sure after those first couple of years Atlanta fans were calling for Woody's head. The key for him now however is to not let his current team get steamrolled by Orlando in this series. Getting the Hawks to the Eastern Conference Finals would be a big accomplishment.

Fred Williamson

05-06-2010, 03:58 PM

Scott Skiles has to be in the Top5. Just look what he has accomplished with this shitty Bucks roster. He's like a younger version of LB

SWedd523

05-15-2010, 06:52 PM

Gentry went on to praise Jackson for his ability to create championship chemistry on teams with great players, calling it "probably the toughest thing in the NBA to do."

teej

05-15-2010, 07:15 PM

Gentry went on to praise Jackson for his ability to create championship chemistry on teams with great players, calling it "probably the toughest thing in the NBA to do."

Same article had Nash calling Pop the best coach...

SWedd523

05-15-2010, 07:17 PM

Who I have as second on my list you silly little goofball.

For what it's worth, I think he made the Pop comment to dig at Phil because he (Phil) is generally regarded as the best.