PLEASE Bench Felton...

[ammofan]

I dont think I have seen a worse performance by a starting point guard in Playoff History!
lol
CP3 is in the Cable Box.....suit him up and throw away Ray

[Wolfpackbobcat]

screw ray, diaw, and especially jackson for his shi$$ late game shots

[Marvel]

I think part of the blame has to go to LB for playing Doris with Dwight out.

[ammofan]

I think part of the blame has to go to LB for playing Doris with Dwight out.

Yes it has to......Tyrus was great, and we dont play him.....screw this. We had this game locked up imo, then we put in Felton(Future NY Knick hopefully), and he screws around.....
Jack is also to blame for that dumb missed three......

[gforce33]

Fuck Diaw:facepalm:

I don't understand why LB don't use TT

diaw sucks:facepalm:

TT was great


And I think gw really need to come forward for the last 1mins or last seconds...


If you use felton attack the basket ..why don't use GW?:facepalm:

he ability surely better than felton ...


and where is the Jax:facepalm:

[Counturakt]

You can't honestly blame Jack for that three. He's been taking it all season long, and it's one of the best looks at a 3 point shot you'll ever get in crunch time. Who would you prefer taking it? DJ Augustin is all I can think of.

You guys just don't make 3's as much as you'd like down the stretch.

[ammofan]

You can't honestly blame Jack for that three. He's been taking it all season long, and it's one of the best looks at a 3 point shot you'll ever get in crunch time. Who would you prefer taking it? DJ Augustin is all I can think of.

You guys just don't make 3's as much as you'd like down the stretch.

I would prefer no one takes a three in that situation! Take a two! Drive!

[Marvel]

We didn't need that 3,we were down by 1 not 2.So it was a bad shot,and again Dwight fouled out.

[ohara831]

We didn't need that 3,we were down by 1 not 2.So it was a bad shot,and again Dwight fouled out.

Inexperience and nerves. We got there, but it shows we are not good enough yet to compete for the 2nd round. Will be interesting to see what changes occur in the off season.

[Counturakt]

I would prefer no one takes a three in that situation! Take a two! Drive!
Were they not down 4 at that point?

[SWedd523]

no it was 86-85 when Jack took the three. Right out of the timeout, 4 seconds off the clock he jacked that random three up. Makes me wonder if that play was designed or not

[Marvel]

Looking at LB's face after he took that 3 would suggest it wasn't a designed play.

[SWedd523]

Couldn't get a real good look at his face up in 222 ;)

[ammofan]

Were they not down 4 at that point?

no we weren 1......then after the miss, we fouled them, they made both putting it back up to 3. Then Felton came down and drove when we needed a 3.

[GoBobs]

It wasn't a great shot but it wasn't that terrible either. With only 31 sec left you want to get something quick giving your team a possible 2 for 1 or the most time possible left on the clock if you miss. He was open he just missed. We had plenty of open looks tonight from 3 we just couldn't hit.

All series we have defended the magic and put long scoring droughts on them. Problem is our scoring droughts have been even worse. Our pace makes us better on defense but I not sure it doesn't make us worse on offense. The way we have played this year sure hasn't gotten us much better at putting the ball in the basket. I think we need a different mentality on offense. Maybe I am wrong though and we just don't have guys that can shoot. :facepalm:

[teej]

The Jack 3 was a designed play.

And please, ammofan, don't tell me you think DJ would do any better? He can't hit a 3 right now to save his life.

[ohara831]

I was not too upset with the Jack 3 attempt as he did have a good look at the basket. But I do wish they would have tried to take it to the hoop since they were down only 1at the time. And I wish it would have been Crash. But for some reason, he just seems to shy away from the big moments at the end. Wish he wanted the ball more.

[Marvel]

The Jack 3 was a designed play.

And please, ammofan, don't tell me you think DJ would do any better? He can't hit a 3 right now to save his life.


Wha :facepalm:....... we're not saying DJ would do any better.Felton certainly hasn't played any better either.The shots that DJ did take were shots that were taken with 3 seconds left on the shot clock because the sytem preaches ball movement.

[teej]

we're not saying DJ would do any better

If DJ isn't going to play any better then why talk about benching Ray? Are you planning on starting Larry?

Look, Ray hasn't played well. He knows that as much as we do. But making a change isn't going to help. And at least it's saving us money this summer.

[DwiLLL]

From what I was watching, Jameer gave Felton a horrible raping, his asshole has to be sore. DJ played good D on Jammer.

[TheBeagle]

To borrow a John Fox turn of phrase, he is what he is. Unless you're just a Raymond-lover, his play this series shouldn't be that suprising. Admittedly, Nelson is playing at a superhuman level that would devestate any PG in the league, but Raymond still let's him get whatever he wants since he can't stay in front of him. But then again, hasn't that been a problem since the get-go with him? You can name on one hand the number of starting 1s that Raymond can defend well, and in the context of this series, Nelson unfortunately isn't one of them.

The problem is, it doesn't stop there; it extends to the offensive end. Though he's improved his %s this year, it's still edge-of-the-seat kinda stuff when he's either shooting or driving to the hoop in that you have no idea what he's going to do, and if he shoots, is it going in. The man has developed a really nice floater, yet he doesn't use it nearly enough, instead taking it in too deep with nowhere to pass it, and shotblockers aplenty ready to deny him.

He's a fantastic guy, and I'm proud of him that he was able to be the starting 1 on a playoff team, but the reality is, this is his ceiling. Unless he's teamed with a superstar or two, he can't "quarterback" a team to playoff success. I've always thought this (but hoped I was wrong), and now the evidence lies before me.

There will be plenty of threads this off-season about this situation, but the fact is, Raymond can't take this team where we want it to go as it now stands. Does that mean we flat-out don't re-sign him, or do we upgrade somewhere else so his deficiencies don't stand out so? Not sure. But with Raymond, what you see is what you get, both good and bad.

[Marvel]

To borrow a John Fox turn of phrase, he is what he is. Unless you're just a Raymond-lover, his play this series shouldn't be that suprising. Admittedly, Nelson is playing at a superhuman level that would devestate any PG in the league, but Raymond still let's him get whatever he wants since he can't stay in front of him. But then again, hasn't that been a problem since the get-go with him? You can name on one hand the number of starting 1s that Raymond can defend well, and in the context of this series, Nelson unfortunately isn't one of them.

The problem is, it doesn't stop there; it extends to the offensive end. Though he's improved his %s this year, it's still edge-of-the-seat kinda stuff when he's either shooting or driving to the hoop in that you have no idea what he's going to do, and if he shoots, is it going in. The man has developed a really nice floater, yet he doesn't use it nearly enough, instead taking it in too deep with nowhere to pass it, and shotblockers aplenty ready to deny him.

He's a fantastic guy, and I'm proud of him that he was able to be the starting 1 on a playoff team, but the reality is, this is his ceiling. Unless he's teamed with a superstar or two, he can't "quarterback" a team to playoff success. I've always thought this (but hoped I was wrong), and now the evidence lies before me.

There will be plenty of threads this off-season about this situation, but the fact is, Raymond can't take this team where we want it to go as it now stands. Does that mean we flat-out don't re-sign him, or do we upgrade somewhere else so his deficiencies don't stand out so? Not sure. But with Raymond, what you see is what you get, both good and bad.

Precisely.
We've seen Felton for who he is.He's a great guy,competes hard every night and i love him but he's taken this team as far as he can.He's reached his ceiling and i think he did that 2-3 years ago just quietly.

[Toocool]

I guess in a way he's like EO50. EO50 hit his ceiling in his 3rd year in the league. He was solid, but never improved his stats or anything. Same with Felton. It is a shame he's reached his ceiling, but he is very solid. I commend him for every night he's put his heart into to playing for this team. Best thing about him is that you don't have to teach him about heart, he plays with everything he has.

[gforce33]

I was not too upset with the Jack 3 attempt as he did have a good look at the basket. But I do wish they would have tried to take it to the hoop since they were down only 1at the time. And I wish it would have been Crash. But for some reason, he just seems to shy away from the big moments at the end. Wish he wanted the ball more.

I think Wallace have enough ability from the big moments ..
But you always doesn't see he come out from that time ..:g:

[spectre]

Hit his ceiling 2-3 years ago? :g:

Maybe I'm missing something...but it certainly seemed like he improved a lot this year?

Felton has had a bad series. The Magic have set great screens and Nelson has hit some sick shots, but overall Felton has seemed really tight thru all 3 games exceptfor maybe 2nd half of the 1st game.

Who knows what the FO will decide to do. I think his improvement this past season trumps 3 games...his first ever playoff experience, but financial issues could very well play a part in what we do.

DJ had a nice few minutes in game 2 (end of the game) where we fought back and they were on their heels, but he had the same issues yesterday that Felton did...except he only faced 4 screens (fouled Gortat trying to fight thru, fought thru a Lewis screen, Nelson threw back to Lewis for a 3 attempt, Nelson drove around him, got into the paint and kicked out for a 3 miss and a halfass Howard screen).

4th quarter Hughes was on Nelson more than DJ was...and he couldn't stop him.

Nelson's had a great series...hats off to him.

[110oldeast]

I definitely am a "Raymond lover" and would still say I am upset with his performance this series and said so in another thread. I have been as upset with his lack of consistent offensive aggression as the defensive part.

That said, what's ironic is that he had back to back drives and finishes in the halfcourt, including the 3 pt play to take Howard out of the game and we then went back to Jack for a top of the key 3 instead of continuing to attack the rim DOWN 1. And that was an LB design. Ray's made plays in the clutch all year, including 2 back to back drives and finishes preceding the final play. You're down 1 and you set up a catch and shoot 3 for Jack who is more of a scorer who shoots well off the dribble and isolation than a catch and shoot player (something we immensely lack and hope the front office learns the value of after being in this series).

Ray's been one of the best 2 defenders on the team all year long, but has struggled this series. Part of that is because there's been one sided aggression in his matchup (Jameer being aggressive offensively, with Felton being passive offensively allowing Jameer freedom on both ends). Part of that has been b/c we have had NO CLEAR direction on handling Orlando's pick and roll. From player to player, each help defender does something different and there is no defensive trust out there. Raymond's trying to defend Jameer, but also all the pick's he "thinks" are coming as he does not know what the helper will do outside of a couple of guys.

It's funny, when Tyrus Thomas was in there, there was little issue defending Jameer has he understood how to SHOW (stop or change the direction of the man with the ball) on the pick and roll and allow the guard to recover. Tyson Chandler is the center who does this well. Jack didn't step out at all and only bear-hugged Vince, Diaw stepped out half-heartedly and allowed Nelson to turn the corner. Nazr is similar to Diaw in this regard.

Now, if help defenders aren't going to show well then the pg has to go under the screen. The problem with this is that it allows another option for an open 3. Either way, players have to be on the same page and do their individual part for it to work.

Again, while I haven't loved Ray's defense, I view that as a team issue of defending the pick and roll (HARD DOUBLE TEAM THIS when a center sets the pick). My issue has been the inconsistent offensive aggression as I think that he has had the ability to do more of this.

[Brown'sTown]

I definitely am a "Raymond lover" and would still say I am upset with his performance this series and said so in another thread. I have been as upset with his lack of consistent offensive aggression as the defensive part.

That said, what's ironic is that he had back to back drives and finishes in the halfcourt, including the 3 pt play to take Howard out of the game and we then went back to Jack for a top of the key 3 instead of continuing to attack the rim DOWN 1. And that was an LB design. Ray's made plays in the clutch all year, including 2 back to back drives and finishes preceding the final play. You're down 1 and you set up a catch and shoot 3 for Jack who is more of a scorer who shoots well off the dribble and isolation than a catch and shoot player (something we immensely lack and hope the front office learns the value of after being in this series).

Ray's been one of the best 2 defenders on the team all year long, but has struggled this series. Part of that is because there's been one sided aggression in his matchup (Jameer being aggressive offensively, with Felton being passive offensively allowing Jameer freedom on both ends). Part of that has been b/c we have had NO CLEAR direction on handling Orlando's pick and roll. From player to player, each help defender does something different and there is no defensive trust out there. Raymond's trying to defend Jameer, but also all the pick's he "thinks" are coming as he does not know what the helper will do outside of a couple of guys.

It's funny, when Tyrus Thomas was in there, there was little issue defending Jameer has he understood how to SHOW (stop or change the direction of the man with the ball) on the pick and roll and allow the guard to recover. Tyson Chandler is the center who does this well. Jack didn't step out at all and only bear-hugged Vince, Diaw stepped out half-heartedly and allowed Nelson to turn the corner. Nazr is similar to Diaw in this regard.

Now, if help defenders aren't going to show well then the pg has to go under the screen. The problem with this is that it allows another option for an open 3. Either way, players have to be on the same page and do their individual part for it to work.

Again, while I haven't loved Ray's defense, I view that as a team issue of defending the pick and roll (HARD DOUBLE TEAM THIS when a center sets the pick). My issue has been the inconsistent offensive aggression as I think that he has had the ability to do more of this.

Thats basically dead on. The guy who posted that Felton can only guard a handful of players has no idea what he's talking about, has to be a hardcore Duke fan with leftover hate or something. Felton is one of the better PG defenders in the league. The biggest problem is team defense. NO ONE can stay in front of a fast NBA PG. Moving forward and being the one who decides what direction you're going gives you an advantage over the defender. If a nice screen is set its up to the help d to come over if the switch is slow, which our big guys have been extremely slow on. Unfortunately the magic have 4 3 pt shooters on the floor at all times and someone is going to get a wide open 3 if you help and this team hits everything thats open. THe reality is we have no idea how to guard them. Jameer seems to be the one benefiting the most from this and unfortunately he's shooting out of his mind. These aren't all shots he normally hits, even open. Jameer did absolutely nothing when Felton was guarding him in game 2, or the second half of game one for that matter. It has more to do with what the team decides to leave open and how aggressive and on fire Jameer is at the moment. I agree with the previous poster, it's Felton's offense thats frustrating. He just isn't aggressive most of the time. I think he got jipped on that last drive. There was definitely some body contact from Lewis and shards momentum was going forward. They were getting those calls everytime they went at the rim. I thought Felton was solid at the end of the game, but the problem was that he just wasn't aggressive leading up to that point. Offensively we know what to expect from Felton. In a more free flow system he's a 14 and 7 guy, in a real restricted system he's a 12 and 6 guy. Unfortunately this team is horrible offensively and we can't have a PG like that. I don't think we should resign him because we need offense so bad and we've dug ourselves a hole financially. On a team like Orlando or LAL Raymond would be a great fit, but we just don't have the offensive fire power to have a PG that doesn't have to carry a large load on offense. It's not really Raymond's fault so much as it is the front office's for picking Morrison and DJ over obvious all star caliber players, or guys like Boris Diaw for underachieving so horribly, or maybe even Larry Brown for neglecting prospects we already have on our own bench. We're locked into big contracts we dogshit players like Doris, Diop, and Tyson. I'd rather get rid of them than Felton, but that's probably not a possibility because no one wants those garbage contracts(except maybe tyson who is expiring). On a side note, we're really missing Flip Murray. The Tyrus trade isn't helping because Brown won't play him enough. Murray would have gotten minutes and he would have gotten us points.

[Brown'sTown]

how come my posts always come out in one uninterrupted paragraph? it was separated in 3 or 4 paragraphs and it does this every time I post.

[spectre]

Remember the play in the 4th where Nelson rubbed Felton off on the screen, Boris was the "help" and Nelson split between Boris and the Magic player setting the screen?

I find it amazing how much some don't understand the concepts of a screen and how to defend it. Since it appears no one on the Bobcats with the possible exception of TC and probably Crash (who I don't remember his guy ever setting the screen?) does however...maybe not.

[BRNC]

With Howard fouling out jump shots were not the way to go for the last three minutes...and I really question not using Gerald (in the offense) for the last two games...

[gforce33]

With Howard fouling out jump shots were not the way to go for the last three minutes...and I really question not using Gerald (in the offense) for the last two games...

I agree with you

[KT#20]

Felton has his faults, definitely, but I can't believe anyone would suggest you could name on one hand the starting point guards that he can defend well. In reality, there is a reason he's been getting All-Defensive love for the past two years now. Felton's defense hasn't been what we expected, but Nelson is obviously playing above his head right now, as evident by the ridiculous shots he's hitting and in comparison to what he did in the regular season, specifically against us (less than 13 and 5).

I guess it's expected, but I think people have lost sight of the fact that we are a 7 seed playing a 2 seed. Felton's ability to lead/perform in the playoffs should not be based on his first ever playoff series, against the defending EC champs.

[110oldeast]

Boris actually had a moment where he "showed" on the OPPOSITE side of where Nelson was going as he tried to cheat.

Let me break that down further:

Boris was on the same side as Felton, in other words allowing 1 man to screen 2 men, creating more of a double screen than help defense.

Finally, the part of the equation folks keep ignoring is how the early doubling of Dwight Howard sets the tone for all this shit, allowing Orlando wide open looks to get confident off of. Why the hell we continue this, I don't get it. Orlando is a team of SHOOTERS. You beat them by stopping their SHOOTERS, not by allowing them to get off as you inexplicably double Dwight Howard starting off the game.

After the 1st half of Game 1, Felton had slowed down Nelson, only giving up 2 fgs to him in 3 quarters (he had 2 layups off TOs). We come out in Game 3, robotically doubling Dwight Howard and Nelson, Lewis and crew knock down some open jumpers, getting them started and confident just like they need. MAKE DWIGHT MAKE POST MOVES and foul him if he has deep position.



Remember the play in the 4th where Nelson rubbed Felton off on the screen, Boris was the "help" and Nelson split between Boris and the Magic player setting the screen?

I find it amazing how much some don't understand the concepts of a screen and how to defend it. Since it appears no one on the Bobcats with the possible exception of TC and probably Crash (who I don't remember his guy ever setting the screen?) does however...maybe not.

[110oldeast]

For perspective:

Jameer Nelson and Orlando had their debut (not franchise debut, but the 1st of their recent ones) vs. Detroit and Chauncey Billups and the defending Eastern Conference champ Detroit Pistons in 2006-07 and were swept 4-0.

Jameer in that series was outdueled by a playoff experienced Chauncey Billups who controlled the games and averaged:

22.3 pts
7 assists
2.8 TOs
2.5 a/t ratio
52% fg
40% 3pt

Meanwhile Jameer averaged:

14.3 pts
3.3 assists
2.3 TOs
1.4 a/t ratio
42% fg
36% 3pt

Simple reality: Felton has had a hate/love relationship here throughout his career as many subconsciously view him as the villain who robbed them of having Chris Paul here. When things go well, it will be done in spite of his deficiencies and when they go poorly, it would be due mostly to his deficiencies. It has caused us to overvalue other players on the team and say how Felton holds them back while also downplaying players on other teams and saying how other pgs do more with less. I remember arguing with folks who said that Okafor would be an All-Star in Orlando and I disagreed saying he would get less touches than here as West, Paul, and their wing shooters would get the bulk of the shots, as Mek's offensive game is not as strong as Charlotte's offense made it seem. Mek did not have much of a burst when Paul played and when Collison came in, his FGAs were still very low, meaning that it was not as a much pg play holding him back as it was Bobcats' folks inflated perception of his offensive capabilities. While I have been very disappointed with Felton's play, some perspective is necessary. Felton was a large part of us getting to the playoffs, but it seems many folks have pretty much written that off.


Imagine if Orlando threw out the baby with the bathwater after their first series against the defending Eastern Conference Champs when Chauncey came out as the aggressor and outplayed Nelson.


Felton has his faults, definitely, but I can't believe anyone would suggest you could name on one hand the starting point guards that he can defend well. In reality, there is a reason he's been getting All-Defensive love for the past two years now. Felton's defense hasn't been what we expected, but Nelson is obviously playing above his head right now, as evident by the ridiculous shots he's hitting and in comparison to what he did in the regular season, specifically against us (less than 13 and 5).

I guess it's expected, but I think people have lost sight of the fact that we are a 7 seed playing a 2 seed. Felton's ability to lead/perform in the playoffs should not be based on his first ever playoff series, against the defending EC champs.

[CarolinaBlue23]

All season we have criticized Felton but we cut him a break when he has a couple of good games verses weaker guards. Kenny Smith pointed it out that Nelson doesn't fear any of the guards on the Bobcats roster. He can do whatever he wants on offense and play little to no defense. After all this time Felton still lacks what it takes to be a good NBA guard. He can't take over a game with his shooting, passing, or his defense. Jordan needs to let him walk this summer. There are point guards riding the pine on teams that are better than him.

[ammofan]

The Jack 3 was a designed play.

And please, ammofan, don't tell me you think DJ would do any better? He can't hit a 3 right now to save his life.

all I know is that our team looks alot better when we have DJ in there, as opposed to having Felton in there. DJ may not be shooting better but at least he doesnt turn the ball over, and just make stupid decisions overall.

Also please tell me what makes you think the Jack three was a designed play. Were you in the time out?

[110oldeast]

This post is flawed from top to bottom outside of the part Kenny Smith said.

I have maintained that Felton has needed to aggressively penetrate against Nelson throughout the series. When he has, a lot of good things have happened. The problem is that he has not done it enough.



All season we have criticized Felton but we cut him a break when he has a couple of good games verses weaker guards. Kenny Smith pointed it out that Nelson doesn't fear any of the guards on the Bobcats roster. He can do whatever he wants on offense and play little to no defense. After all this time Felton still lacks what it takes to be a good NBA guard. He can't take over a game with his shooting, passing, or his defense. Jordan needs to let him walk this summer. There are point guards riding the pine on teams that are better than him.

[110oldeast]

This stuff is hilarious.

Felton's A/T ratio is 14/5 for the entire series. That's almost 3/1.

That's less than 2 TOs per game. Like I said, folks just say stuff without even analyzing it. Please let me know about all these dumb decisions and TOs that he has made.

DJ's had most of his time against Jason Williams. He's played Nelson like 5 or 6 minutes the whole series against Nelson and hasn't had the barrage of screens Felton has faced and rarely has had the combo of Howard, Lewis, and Nelson playing together on the floor at the same time. This combo has been what has been tough for us to defend.

Finally, you really don't think that popout to Jack was designed? Really? They call a TO, a double screen pops Jack out wide open to the top of the key, the pg delivers the ball to wide open Jack and Jack shoots it.

If that wasn't designed, are you calling that a dumb decision by the pg?

Let me guess, the play down 3 with 25 secs where LB didn't call a TO and Felton drove to the hoop for a quick 2 was another dumb decision and not what he was supposed to do, even though LB has opted for that approach and gotten upset when we didn't do it earlier in the year, right?



all I know is that our team looks alot better when we have DJ in there, as opposed to having Felton in there. DJ may not be shooting better but at least he doesnt turn the ball over, and just make stupid decisions overall.

Also please tell me what makes you think the Jack three was a designed play. Were you in the time out?

[DwiLLL]

Felton is what he is, a career backup point guard. Think Jason Williams.

[teej]

all I know is that our team looks alot better when we have DJ in there, as opposed to having Felton in there. DJ may not be shooting better but at least he doesnt turn the ball over, and just make stupid decisions overall.

Also please tell me what makes you think the Jack three was a designed play. Were you in the time out?

First, the Jack part:




Once, Brown took two timeouts in a row with 31.3 seconds left and Charlotte down by a point. The play Brown spent so much time diagramming got Stephen Jackson an open three-pointer, which Jackson missed badly.

Second, DJ: As much as he "looks" better, please remember most of his minutes come against the second team. And while he may "look" better, the stats don't necessarily agree. Ray has been just as good if not better than DJ this series, yet he's the whipping boy. Could we be better without him? Only if we bring in someone better. And right now, that's not possible.

Third, to everyone who's bashing Ray: Just remember, without Ray, we'd be sitting at home watching the Raptors play right now. Stop biting the hand that feeds you. While I'd love to see Chris Paul instead of Ray and DJ, Ray is clearly the best option right now.