The Great Raymond Felton Debate

[BETCATS]

http://rws.typepad.com/rhapsody_music/images/2008/10/28/78589048.jpg
(first off, i am not sure if this deserves its own thread, i think it does because it would be nice to have all Felton related discussion in one place instead of scattered everywhere/if any mod feels otherwise please lock this)

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/raymond_felton/career_stats.html

Their has been a lot of talk about resigning Felton or letting him walk. How much to pay him or if to pay him at all. If a sign in trade is the best option or if just flat out signing him is what is in our best interests. The point guard's job is to lead the offense, and it seems we are not all in the same boat as to whether Felton is the guy or not. I will state my opinion after the discussion starts going. I dont think it belongs in the orginal post.

Have at it....

[murphman]

It is so early right now and LB's future is a factor. However, PG is the one position in free agency that appears to not be very deep on starting caliber players so there may be many teams looking for one after the draft. I am leaning towards a sign and trade, perhaps for a low 1st round draft pick in 2011 or for an expiring contract that we can add to heap (Tyson, Nazr, Brown, others we sign this summer) and use as trade bait.

[WAM9]

My biggest concern is that point guards in general take some time to adjust to LB's style. A big free agent crop of free agents was mentioned but, in reality, who is available who will be better next year than Raymond Felton?

I'm not saying who is better than Felton but instead who will be better for our team in LB's system...

I hate to start over and have LB start training another point guard from scratch. DJ is not ready to be our full time starter. Is there a better option than Felton out there?

[teej]

DJ will never be a true point guard, much less starter quality. If we keep LB, then we need to sign Ray back for a 3 year/$18 million deal with a mutual option for the 4th.

Other than that, start Jack at point for all I care, Graham can play the 2.

[ziggy]

I think that this is easily deserving of its own thread, so no problem here BETCATS :biggrin:

[BobCatsFanInTx]

For me, when it comes to Raymond there really is no debate. Raymond is a solid middle of the NBA talent PG and he is far from a detriment to the team. On the other hand those that think we can do better may be quite upset if it turns out we can not.

Larry Brown has spent a lot of time working with both Raymond and DJ and I don't think he want's it all to be used against him when they are playing well for some other team.

I feel that should Raymond stay, it would be a real turning point in his career. In my opinion Raymond deserves a third season in the NBA. You ask how it is he has only been in the league two years? Well technically he has been around longer but one must consider that he really only started growing up and playing solidly when Larry coached him. I feel that he is worthy of a decent contract. Not a top ten one mind you but at least a top 15.

In recent years the NBA has been producing some good pg's but it is a crap shoot and their is a chance a young pg won't really do much for our Bobcats. Our guys have chemistry and they are only going to get better with another season together.

So for me there is no debate to be had. I think Ray is good enough to remain a Bobcat considering the options may not be better. Unless we can get a Deron Williams, CP3, Rondo or Nelson I don't see this urge to replace Raymond.

If Ray is allowed to go then I hope we have a better option to replace him. I hope we know that option is better and we don't just speculate.

That is where I am at on the issue.

[etothet]

For me, when it comes to Raymond there really is no debate. Raymond is a solid middle of the NBA talent PG and he is far from a detriment to the team. On the other hand those that think we can do better may be quite upset if it turns out we can not.

Larry Brown has spent a lot of time working with both Raymond and DJ and I don't think he want's it all to be used against him when they are playing well for some other team.

I feel that should Raymond stay, it would be a real turning point in his career. In my opinion Raymond deserves a third season in the NBA. You ask how it is he has only been in the league two years? Well technically he has been around longer but one must consider that he really only started growing up and playing solidly when Larry coached him. I feel that he is worthy of a decent contract. Not a top ten one mind you but at least a top 15.

In recent years the NBA has been producing some good pg's but it is a crap shoot and their is a chance a young pg won't really do much for our Bobcats. Our guys have chemistry and they are only going to get better with another season together.

So for me there is no debate to be had. I think Ray is good enough to remain a Bobcat considering the options may not be better. Unless we can get a Deron Williams, CP3, Rondo or Nelson I don't see this urge to replace Raymond.

If Ray is allowed to go then I hope we have a better option to replace him. I hope we know that option is better and we don't just speculate.

That is where I am at on the issue.






I think you are probably correct. Letting Raymond walk for nothing is not a good move.

[BRNC]

Two points have already been made...quality (lack of) with FA PGs this year and learning the LB system...

Second first...there is absolutely no guarantee that LB will be here next year so his "system" could be a moot point...if he is here next season that could be his last...so...

How much do you over-pay Ray (if you do) and for how long to run a "system" that is very likely going to change next season or (very likely) the one after that?

or...do you try to get by for a year with a Blake or Ridnour...or

...make a trade for a PG you actually think can run the team better and let Ray leave...those seem to be our options...

[teej]

Even if LB leaves my money is on Dave Hanners becoming head coach, so it'd be the same system.

[BRNC]

teej...I'm really not sold that Hanners will be our Head Coach if LB leaves...and if he were that "great" why wouldn't LB want Hanners as his Head Coach if he does take a FO position calling the shots?

I can think of other guys I'd rather have than Hanners...I'm really tired of not developing young players...if LB leaves I'd rather bring in a guy more willing to play them...but that's just me...

[teej]

teej...I'm really not sold that Hanners will be our Head Coach if LB leaves...and if he were that "great" why wouldn't LB want Hanners as his Head Coach if he does take a FO position calling the shots?

I can think of other guys I'd rather have than Hanners...I'm really tired of not developing young players...if LB leaves I'd rather bring in a guy more willing to play them...but that's just me...

Did Hanners not play the young guys/bench the two times he was in charge?

And there are a lot of people in the organization who really like Hanners as a coach. I don't think LB would take him though, because he'd be risking his rep on an untested coach. In my mind, though, none of the truly tested coaches are quality candidates, especially since JVG and MJ aren't the best of buds.

I'd like people more than Hanners, sure, but if we named him coach tomorrow I'd be very happy. He's smart, witty, and he's studied under LB and Dean. What's not to like?

[Fred Williamson]

I can think of other guys I'd rather have than Hanners...I'm really tired of not developing young players...if LB leaves I'd rather bring in a guy more willing to play them...but that's just me...

agreed. I'm sick and tired of Crash and Jax playing 47 minutes per game and washed up veterans.

Just get a coach who can teach some offense and is willing to let the young guys play

[ND22]

I'm on the fence, Ray has definitely improved this year but he was almost a non-factor in the playoffs. At the same time, he has a true love and passion for this team and organization, and on top of that, I don't think we could find a real upgrade to him in free agency this year.

I say we re-sign him.

[BRNC]

teej...Ziggy has the first of my three part series on coaches...think he's posting the first tomorrow...my top choice (if LB leaves) is in the third...I'm not "ruining" my three-piece work just to appease you...:p

It is not that I'm dead-set against Dave or even Phil Ford for that matter...problem is...a rookie Head Coach (with vets on the team) is a heck of a lot more concerned with their jobs...a vet coach with a proven record has more lee-way with the FO and works that out ahead of the season...the other problem is ...

Promoting an assistant to top dog is a real 50-50...Alvin Gentry is the good...michael Curry the not so good...

[teej]

teej...Ziggy has the first of my three part series on coaches...think he's posting the first tomorrow...my top choice (if LB leaves) is in the third...I'm not "ruining" my three-piece work just to appease you...:p

It is not that I'm dead-set against Dave or even Phil Ford for that matter...problem is...a rookie Head Coach (with vets on the team) is a heck of a lot more concerned with their jobs...a vet coach with a proven record has more lee-way with the FO and works that out ahead of the season...the other problem is ...

Promoting an assistant to top dog is a real 50-50...Alvin Gentry is the good...michael Curry the not so good...

First, I jumped to read something quickly, came back, and without reloading the page quoted your post. Thing is, it tripled while I was reading. Edit Master FTW.

OK, now for the important stuff: If I had to wager money on one of the two to be successful, I'd pick Dave over Phil. Dave is very personable (think Flip Saunders nice) yet demanding (like Pop). He's got enough personality for the players to accept him, but also enough smarts to know when he needs to coach. He's probably the only coach in the NBA with a Masters in English Education.

And to your point about LB's assistants, just take a look at his coaching tree. Pop and RC Buford, Mike Woodson, Gentry, Doc Rivers, Byron Scott, John Kuester, Curry, and Paul Silas. Except for Curry/Kuester, who've inherited a horrible situation in Detroit, all have made the playoffs multiple times and there are a lot of rings going around. I'd be willing to bet Curry would be decent somewhere else...

EDIT: Totally forgot about Bill Self and John Calipari. Not too shabby for Hanners, is it?

[BRNC]

teej...not going to argue about Curry...and I'll say this Dave and Phil "might" be successful Head Coaches...somewhere else...players do not accept (see Curry) promotions even when they ask for them (again see Curry)...and I know the pedigree of the guys that have worked with/for LB...not my point...

Unless Jax is traded it will be difficult for a "rookie" Head Coach to do this gig...that's my opinion...

[SWedd523]

agreed. I'm sick and tired of Crash and Jax playing 47 minutes per game and washed up veterans.

Just get a coach who can teach some offense and is willing to let the young guys play

Also agree. Young guys make mistakes but if you let them grow throughout the season they become productive players for you for a long time. I was thinking just this as I saw Taj Gibson get extended minutes tonight.


Growing pains are going to happen, but in the not-so-long run, they'll reward you. Let them play and give the old guys a rest.

[teej]

I think we have the bottom price floor, gents :p


123. Ray Felton
Made Jameer Nelson look good enough that I left the Magic series thinking, "Either Nelson has gone to another level and I need to reconfigure my 'Orlando can't make the finals without a real go-to guy' statement, or Ray Felton is a career backup and should not earn more than $2.35 million a year."

[spectre]

Bill Simmons eh?

http://www.miamiherald.com/qna/forum/heat_chat/index.html


Q: Do you think it would be feasible to trade Beasley and this year's 1st rd pick to the Nets for the #1 pick so we can draft John Wall? What mid-level FA's do you think we could pick up once we sign one of the top FA's?

Answered 04/29/10 14:07:42 by Miami Heat Beat Reporter

A: I don't think the Nets would even come close to touching that trade. I think Carlos Boozer would be an option, with a Bosh/Boozer combination. I think John Salmons would be a fit if he decides to opt out. I think Raymond Felton and Rudy Gay are also potential targets. It just depends which main guy the Heat grabs first after re-signing Dwyane Wade.Also:


Q: Ok Mike, let's get real here. Lebron's ego is way too big for "Wade" County. He would never agree to it. There is a very good chance that Bosh ends up with a team like LA that can offer a better sign and trade scenario than Miami. Amare may resign with the Suns or somewhere else, and Boozer is not worth a max contract and probably good enough for another 1st or 2nd round playoff exit. If the goal is a dynasty then what do we do when Plans A,B,C, and D all fail, which is not as unrealistic as it probably sounds? Would there be any way we could form a championship caliber team?

Answered 04/29/10 13:40:07 by Miami Heat Beat Reporter

A: Sure. And I totally agree with you on the "what if all else fails" predicament. As a matter of fact, the Heat might be better off getting three or four B-level players with its cap space than throwing all of its money at 1 A-level player aside from Wade. When it comes to competing for a title, it's often your third and fourth best players who are the deciding factors. So in that case, grab a Carlos Boozer for less than max money, bring in a John Salmons type as your swingman and try to pry a Raymond Felton or Ramon Sessions away as your point guard. How would Felton/Sessions, Wade, Salmons/Gay, Boozer and defensive-minded center play in the East? Keep in mind, this team won 47 games with far less than that lineup this season.

[murphman]

Here is another idea. How about a sign and trade with Portland for Andre Miller. Miller is old but this past season showed that he can still score at will. Most importantly is his contract, next season is the 2nd of his three year deal but the third year is a team option meaning we can cut ties with him after only one season. And if need be, he might make very valuable trade bait with that contract. Portland would get another young core player to develop into their system.

Yes, it is a stop gap but looking at our roster (both cap hit and age of our players), a one year stop gap is exactly what we need.

[BRNC]

The thing is (IMO) I think with Ray's value having dropped it is better than 50%-50% that he stays here...if I sign (Ray) a three year deal with the 'Cats and the third is a player option I have a chance to raise my value...I'm only 29 when I could do my "last" contract if I get my value back up...

[spectre]

The thing is (IMO) I think with Ray's value having dropped it is better than 50%-50% that he stays here...if I sign (Ray) a three year deal with the 'Cats and the third is a player option I have a chance to raise my value...I'm only 29 when I could do my "last" contract if I get my value back up...

Exactly. I put forth the idea of a 2 year deal the other day...but a 3 year would work just as well as we still wouldn't be committing to anything long term.

[BRNC]

spectre...I actually liked your deal better...but I think Ray goes for a player option three...and it still does not hurt us...

just pulled this from the Chris Perkins "chat" at Hoopsworld...


rolly in cal:
hi chris!hw r u again?lakers is in a search for a point guard in the coming off season.what do you think of felton coming to la as there future point guard?will he fit right with the triangle?how would the lakers acquire him?thanks!

http://www.hoopsworld.com/images/hw_icon.gif
Chris Perkins:
Rolly,
Welcome back...yeah, I think Raymond Felton could fit in pretty well with the Lakers. He'd be easy to acquire. Put together a package. Start with the idea the Bobcats could use Andrew Bynum and go from there. Charlotte has some talent, and you might be able to swindle their owner, Michael Jordan.

Read more NBA news and insight: http://www.hoopsworld.com/chat.asp?status=&CHAT_TOPICS_ID=927#ixzz0mbGtuXpa

[spectre]

Bynum? Until he signed that contract I'd have said heck yeah. Now I think I'd have to pass as he's owed around 14 million next season and 15 million the next.

The playoffs may have hurt Felton's value, but it sure doesn't seem like it's stopped other teams from thinking about him.

[BRNC]

spectre...I agree that other teams probably value Ray higher than some of our forum members...the only reason I put the Perkins chat up was at the minimum I think Ray will give us (Bobcats) a sign and trade option...I'd still rather keep him and trade DJ...:rolleyes:

bynum with that contract...yes I could pass on that...

[EC123]

Don't care at this point.

Jameer Nelson is not a 25 ppg PG.

Felton was just intimidated by him.

If he walks, I won't lose any sleep over it.

[mj4life]

DJ will never be a true point guard, much less starter quality. If we keep LB, then we need to sign Ray back for a 3 year/$18 million deal with a mutual option for the 4th.

Other than that, start Jack at point for all I care, Graham can play the 2.
agree a short trm deal would benefit ray and the team, it would give him a chance to improve and redeem himself and gives the FO time to see what moves need to be made to get better

[DY_nasty]

Didn't Ray want something like 4-5 years before? Why would he take fewer years and less money now?

[teej]

Didn't Ray want something like 4-5 years before? Why would he take fewer years and less money now?

A) Last year when he was a RFA, he asked everyone for that money and no one thought he was worth it. So he played under the QO this year to try to build up his worth.

B) Now that he basically "bombed" in the playoffs, he's no longer an untested young guy but a guy who couldn't perfom when it mattered. Sure, he got his percentages up over the season, but he regressed value-wise in any GM's eye. They may still think he has potential, but not like before.

C) It'd give Ray his wish to be both the starter in Charlotte and to get his value back up so he can get a big contract before he turns 30.

Win-win.

[DY_nasty]

Cool.

Just thinking that if his management is as crazy as they were last year, they may try and strong arm the front office again. However, that in itself is a huge assumption since its not really clear how much the guy wants to be here (as in, if he's willing to take a multi-million dollar pay cut considering how much he'd get on the market). Are the sign & trade options really as outlandish as they sound though?

[spectre]

Bobcats wrap-up: Felton hopes, talks like he'll be back (http://www.gastongazette.com/sports/wrap-46673-bobcats-charlotte.html)


CHARLOTTE — You’d think it would be the best of times for Charlotte Bobcats guard Raymond Felton.

After all, the fifth-year guard finally realized his goal of making the playoffs this season as Felton helped the six-year-old franchise make its first postseason appearance.

Instead, Felton will enter this offseason — as will many Bobcats fans, players and even management — with a great deal of uncertainty.

There’s no doubt that clearing up the questions surrounding the status of head coach Larry Brown is a top priority for the franchise. Brown has two years left on his head coaching contract, but reports have swirled about the possibility of his leaving the franchise for the Philadelphia 76ers so he can be closer to his wife and family.

But as soon as Brown’s status is cleared up, figuring out what to do with Felton has to be the next order of business. The 6-foot-1, 198-pound point guard is an unrestricted free agent.

This side of a disappointing showing against Orlando point guard Jameer Nelson in the playoffs, Felton seemed to show the kind of improvement many in the organization expected of him this year. He averaged 12.1 points, 5.6 assists and 2.1 turnovers per game this season and appeared to endear himself to Brown and his teammates in the process.

“We made the playoffs happen,” Felton said in assessing the season. “Unfortunately, we didn’t do what we wanted to do in the playoffs. We’ll have to do better next season.”

When asked why that sounds like a player who expects to return, Felton said that’s undoubtedly his preference.

“I want to be here and they know I want to be here,” said Felton, the fifth overall pick in the 2005 NBA draft — or just two months after he helped the University of North Carolina to the 2005 NCAA title.

Still, Felton reportedly turned down a six-year, $40 million contract offer from the Bobcats last summer before signing the predetermined one-year, $5.5 million qualifying offer last September.

“I’d rather not talk about it other than to say it’s a business and I understand that,” Felton said.

Many players have struggled mightily — or at least been frustrated — when going through a “contract year” like Felton just did.

But Felton never seemed to play pressured at all this season.

“I’m a strong-minded, strong-hearted person,” Felton said. “And what is there to stress about? You’re playing basketball. So I don’t have time to be frustrated by any of that.”

Felton’s attitude is admirable, but this summer it’ll be interesting to see how much he’s offered — and by whom — since he can negotiate with all 30 NBA teams.

“Personally, he’s been phenomenal for me to coach,” Bobcats coach Larry Brown said of Felton at Friday’s seasonal review news conference. “He comes to every practice and every game and tries with all he has. But when you look at our situation financially, that’s a decision (majority owner) Michael (Jordan) has got to make.”

[DY_nasty]

So.... because he doesn't go on twitter about his free agency options like Chris Bosh it means that he's gonna be back?

... :facepalm:

[spectre]

So.... because he doesn't go on twitter about his free agency options like Chris Bosh it means that he's gonna be back?

... :facepalm:

Interesting that you got that out of the article I posted.

The only real news was the 6 year 40 million line which was new to me (I'd heard the more generic 7 per). The rest is just things that have been said throughout Felton's RFA/FA.

[DY_nasty]

Just sayin...

As a guy in journalism, it irks me to look at a headline like that considering whats actually in the article.

I thought the 6/40 deal was the initial offer that Felton later rejected and (rightfully) laughed at.

[spectre]

I didn't realize he got more than one offer.

IMO from the FO's position I don't think it was bad, nor would I blame Felton for rejecting it. Given his RFA status and the FA market this year where a lot of teams have space it was most likely all about business.

Higgins even said as much earlier this year.

In regards to the title, I didn't see any of the "hopes to be back"...so I agree it could have been a little more geared to the content. I like Walker though; he tends to throw little tidbits out there that we don't normally see from other sources.

Journalism eh? Working now or school? Sports journalism?

Edit:

Just saw the Bull City...I'm in Raleigh. Nice to see other NC fans getting on board outside the dreaded 100 mile radius.

[DY_nasty]

I'm actually in Charlotte right now. School and all that stuff. Sports Management major out at Johnson C. Smith btw.

The Bobcats practically gave away the tickets on our campus. I just happened to slip up and fall in love with the team.

About Ray though, I don't see him staying for cheap unless someone makes love to contract negotiations.

[davcbow]

Bobcats wrap-up: Felton hopes, talks like he'll be back (http://www.gastongazette.com/sports/wrap-46673-bobcats-charlotte.html)


To me that sounds like it can go either way, there is no clear direction established yet....:cool:

[BRNC]

If LB does return it is hard to imagine (given the relationship between LB and DJ) the FO will not extend every effort to retain Ray...will be interesting to say the least...:biggrin:

[GoBobs]

Felton is a very good player, but he hasn't proven he is a game changing player in this league. Problem for him is really good players don't get paid nearly as much as stars. I think Felton should get something right around what he got this year. That puts him between Jared Jack and Marvin Williams which are two comparable talents. My max offer would be like 3 years 16 mil with the last year a player option or 6 years 35 mil with a player option in the 5th and 6th year. I think that is a situation where both sided can win a little bit. Felton gets a valuable player option in case he shows breakout improvement. The Bobcats get to sign him for less then they offered last summer.

I think I might also offer the same thing to Tyrus Thomas if he would rather do that then play under the qualifying offer.

[spectre]

I don't understand why we'd offer less this season than we did last year considering his improvement. Of course in all honestly I'm surprised the FO was willing to go as high as it did last summer as I don't think last year's play justified it.

The 6 yr/40 million would have broken down like this (w/ 10.5% raises):

5.281
5.834
6.389
6.944
7.498
8.053

That's starting out less than what his QO was this year. That's also slightly less than the MLE (which by definition is "average"). From that perspective it's almost a no brainer for him to have turned it down.

The question isn't whether he's worth that IMO, but whether the FO wants to stick with him or look in another direction (whether for financial reasons or something else). Thing is as BRNC said...if LB comes back the 3rd reason comes into play; is there an alternative to Felton that he can live with?

If LB doesn't come back I'm much more amenable to going in another direction. I don't think Felton has "maxed out" in potential like some do...but I question if another coach could get it out of him like LB could.

[DY_nasty]

I feel the exact opposite. If anyone needs a change of scenery, its Ray. If he played somewhere else, lets say Miami, where he's clearly got a role cut out for him... I think thats the ideal situation for Ray.

[spectre]

I feel the exact opposite. If anyone needs a change of scenery, its Ray. If he played somewhere else, lets say Miami, where he's clearly got a role cut out for him... I think thats the ideal situation for Ray.

How do you figure? This past season (minus the playoffs) was great for him, and I attribute that to Larry Brown.

Here he's 3rd option and sometimes 4th (when Boris is awake). Worst comes to worst he has tried to be 1st option and that usually gave mixed results. Wouldn't that basically be the same in a place like Miami where there's a dedicated go to guy in Flash?

[davcbow]

The way I see it;
This was a make or break year for Felton and he did good during the season but sucked in the playoffs which is something that with more experience will make him better. Now if we lose him or let him walk we have DJ and would need to pickup someone else of which we dont have any draft picks so we would have to sign a FA.
So we have Felton vs DJ vs FA which direction is best for the team?
I also ask is DJ happy being on the team? What is his relationship with MJ and LB like? This would have alot to do with which direction I would want the team to go in...
Do you have any detailed info "Whore"? I mean "Ball" I mean Ballwhore? :cool:

[nazsquad]

It concerns me that many of you are ready to get rid of Felton. This guy is part of the heart of the team and plays will passion. He doesn't back down, takes blame when things aren't going smoothly, and doesn't let injuries slow him down.

He might have played average during the playoffs.....but Nelson has had more playoff experience. You cant blame our loss on one guy. We need more shots to fall down in the playoffs. Sometimes players play bad against certain teams. To me, Orlando is a team the Bobcats dont play well against. We hardly ever seem to beat them.

If we play LA or Cleveland, look at what Ray does there. Some matchups dont suit some players. He is a leader on this team. Don't give up so soon.

[DY_nasty]

Again, for the record, I like Felton. He came to some of my games back when I was in high school, he's cool. Still, after 5 years it is what it is... Crash has made huge adjustments to his game and has grown overall. Felton has done what? (And no way was Felton's playoff performance average, one could argue that George Hill has had a better post-season)


How do you figure? This past season (minus the playoffs) was great for him, and I attribute that to Larry Brown.

Here he's 3rd option and sometimes 4th (when Boris is awake). Worst comes to worst he has tried to be 1st option and that usually gave mixed results. Wouldn't that basically be the same in a place like Miami where there's a dedicated go to guy in Flash?
I wouldn't call it great... He finally had a decent season shooting and had some continuity with his coach for once. He had a slightly above average season.

Here he's not fitting the mold. Even though he's become better with the ball, the system doesn't really take advantage of his strengths as a player - I think we all can agree with that. In a faster paced system like Miami's and with a guy that demands as much attention as Wade, I think its safe to say that he'd get a lot more opportunities to play naturally.

[spectre]

Still, after 5 years it is what it is... Crash has made huge adjustments to his game and has grown overall. Felton has done what? (And no way was Felton's playoff performance average, one could argue that George Hill has had a better post-season)

He improved this season...so it's a misnomer to imply he's not improved in 5 years.

Some said he couldn't improve last year...yet he improved his efficiency bigtime. He took less shots, better FG%, had less TOs, better A/T ratio (2nd best of his career), better finishing in the paint. This year he played more of a team game than he ever has with us.

If he can improve from last year to this one I don't understand how it's a fact that he can't continue to improve. The older PGs get they seem to let the flow come to them more...gain "poise". I don't know that he will, but I also don't know that he won't.

In regards to the playoffs I agree with you.


I wouldn't call it great... He finally had a decent season shooting and had some continuity with his coach for once. He had a slightly above average season.

Which is much better than he's shown in the previous seasons. Compared to those I think for him personally it was a great season (not great in total NBA terms; this year I'd agree with you...slightly above average).


Here he's not fitting the mold. Even though he's become better with the ball, the system doesn't really take advantage of his strengths as a player - I think we all can agree with that. In a faster paced system like Miami's and with a guy that demands as much attention as Wade, I think its safe to say that he'd get a lot more opportunities to play naturally.

Miami was 19th in pace, we were 24th. Miami might help (being paired with Flash should help anyone), but I don't it'd help that much in regards to their pace vs ours.

It's long been said that a faster paced team would help him and I won't argue that it won't. I do think however that he's a pretty good half court PG in that he can usually break down his opposing PG at a standstill and get into the paint pretty much whenever he wants. He's improved his finishing in the paint bigtime too (0.458 last season, 0.561 this season). Consider the comparison to Tony Parker in that statistic (0.601)...who I think is one of the best at getting into the paint/finishing. FWIW the Spurs were 21st in pace.

Since we are a half court team we need that skillset pretty badly.

[teej]

Dy_Nasty, try reading this. It may help a little.

http://bobcatsplanet.com/wp/report-card-2-raymond-felton

[DY_nasty]

Dy_Nasty, try reading this. It may help a little.

http://bobcatsplanet.com/wp/report-card-2-raymond-felton
A good read. I don't want people thinking that I don't like Felton or anything like that. I think he's a solid mid-tier point guard. At the same time, he's the most overrated player on our team.

I still believe that Felton's had more than plenty of opportunities to make the most of out his career here though. After 5 years, we all agree that he's a 3rd option scorer, an above average on-ball defender (as long as we pretend the playoffs didn't happen), and a decent point guard - I just don't see how a guy with that kind of resume (who still can't hit an outside shot and doesn't manage to get to the free throw line as much as he should given his body type) should get anything more than 6.5 mil per.

Even then, a team in a financial situation such as ours should really think long and hard before making that kind of commitment while so many other issues remain unresolved.

[spectre]

Overrated? I think he gets more negative criticism than anyone else on our team and he has since he came here...most likely due to his draft class.

He led our team for most of the year in the 3 ball until DJ made his late season surge, so I disagree that he "still can't make an outside shot". Having plenty of opportunities also comes with the baggage of being on a team where he was forced to be a 1st option due to our expansion status/miffing opportunities/hiring dog catchers for coaches when as you said he's a 3rd option.

We gave him more options this past season and he responded.

The rest I agree with. 3rd option is worth the MLE, esp. since he plays on both sides of the ball. I don't fault him for trying to get more (wouldn't anyone?), but I'd fault us for overpaying.

The team can't afford to take a step back next season. If it's feasible to bring him back then we should...but after next season when our financial situation starts to get better we can look for better alternatives.

[spectre]

Not getting to the line can be a subject unto itself. When I get time I'd like to discuss that and compare him and DJ to all the other PGs in the league. What do those successful do differently than he does? If anyone else wants to start a topic like that up before I get around to it feel free.

We need things to beat around for the next couple months.

I agree tho; for a guy who can get into the lane at will it's amazing he doesn't get to the line more.

[110oldeast]

In the NBA reputations get you to the line as much as anything. He has historically gone into the bodies of guys the way you are taught, but simply has not consistently gotten the calls. If you don't have a rep, you are almost better suited not having a stronger body like Felton, as guys with those types of bodies and non-protected reps take more hits without foul calls. DJ can drive and flail and get more calls as the league tends to protect smaller players now more than they used to. Felton gets to the line less than any other pg who plays as any minutes in the league (maybe 1 or 2 less). When you consider his penetration, it doesn't make sense. But it also makes his shooting percentage even better, as many players miss plenty of shots, but don't have them show up in the box score due to foul calls that put them on the line. And I would certainly agree that Felton has been the opposite of overrated his entire tenure here.


Not getting to the line can be a subject unto itself. When I get time I'd like to discuss that and compare him and DJ to all the other PGs in the league. What do those successful do differently than he does? If anyone else wants to start a topic like that up before I get around to it feel free.

We need things to beat around for the next couple months.

I agree tho; for a guy who can get into the lane at will it's amazing he doesn't get to the line more.

[DY_nasty]

Felton isn't great when it comes to finishing at the rim anyways. A lot of times officials will give you a call if there's contact and they think that you would've finished had there been no contact. Whats funny is that when Felton was drafted, he was seen as the best finisher of the three big point guards at the time. He'd probably help himself if he decided to drive in quarters 1-3 instead of just late game scenarios.
He led our team for most of the year
Thats not saying much :cool:

But when I say overrated, I mean that most Bobcats fans think that he's at the top of the list of mid-tier point guards in the league. This is true, however, there's a MONSTROUS gap between the mid-tier and top-tier point guards and that cherish the average a little too much after seeing McInnis run point for two years.

I just don't think he's that important. His role isn't that large really, just move the ball around, make the correct reads, and defend. The guy doesn't even do much with the ball besides pass it, and even then he's not that good of a passer. He can be replaced just fine.

EDIT: This sums it up a little better. We all know that our offensive pace is slow as dirt, but check this out. http://www.82games.com/0910/09CHA2.HTM look at 'Turnovers and Ballhandling'. Now, what immediately stands out is "Hot damn! look at all those bad passes! but wait - its okay, he's doesn't have that many ball handling turnovers like other guys!". Normally, thats right but if you look at that fact that he doesn't actually have the ball that much and the fact that the tempo is so slow its kind of... bad. Sums up what I was saying earlier in the thread about DJ.

[spectre]

From that same line he also has a 25.1 "Hands" stat which is one of the better ones (Andre Miller - 23.8, Nelson, 25.6, D. Harris 26.7).

The 56% I posted about deep in the paint also shows he's finishing a LOT better than he previously has.

Again...we're talking about an MLE type player here. If you want to get someone who has no negatives we'd be talking a lot more money.


I just don't think he's that important. His role isn't that large really, just move the ball around, make the correct reads, and defend. The guy doesn't even do much with the ball besides pass it, and even then he's not that good of a passer. He can be replaced just fine.3rd best player on a team that made it to the playoffs? That ain't chopped liver for the money we're talking. Another thread possibility; what do 3rd/4th/5th options make on non rookie deals across the league.

Sure he can be replaced...but not with what's available in FA this season.

[DY_nasty]

From that same line he also has a 25.1 "Hands" stat which is one of the better ones (Andre Miller - 23.8, Nelson, 25.6, D. Harris 26.7).

The 56% I posted about deep in the paint also shows he's finishing a LOT better than he previously has.

Again...we're talking about an MLE type player here. If you want to get someone who has no negatives we'd be talking a lot more money.

3rd best player on a team that made it to the playoffs? That ain't chopped liver for the money we're talking. Another thread possibility; what do 3rd/4th/5th options make on non rookie deals across the league.

Sure he can be replaced...but not with what's available in FA this season.Actually I was surprised that Felton got better in the lane... Just wish he'd visit it more often with that frame of his. Felton only shot 173 fts this year, his fewest since he's been in the league by FAR - maybe the reason he's shooting a better percentage in close because he's not going in as often. Thats speculation on my part though, I'll leave that issue alone for now.

By itself, Felton's 'hands' stat is just fine. Its just the fact that he doesn't score as much as the other guys that you mentioned. He's an okay point guard for a mediocre team, thats all. Andre and Jameer do the same thing, they just have the ability to score. And Jameer... without him, Orlando isn't the same team at all. Ask any Orlando fan who watched the team try and keep the same continuity without him last year. Removing him from that team is like removing Chauncey from the Nuggets.

To the bolded though. It doesn't make sense to pay him even that given its gonna require a long term commitment. And even when you call him the 3rd best player on the team, he's waaaaaaay behind the guys who are #1 and #2. I'd rather see this team make some smart financial moves to lay some foundation down the road (mainly, not pay a guy 6+ over 4 or more seasons) and miss the playoffs next year than settle into a spot of first round cannon fodder for the next two years.

[spectre]

Actually I was surprised that Felton got better in the lane... Just wish he'd visit it more often with that frame of his. Felton only shot 173 fts this year, his fewest since he's been in the league by FAR - maybe the reason he's shooting a better percentage in close because he's not going in as often. Thats speculation on my part though, I'll leave that issue alone for now.

Heh, I think this issue is much more worthy of talking about vs. a "he is/he isn't" like it's been going! With our FO it's impossible to guess what they're going to do here (why did they offer him 6 last season? His play didn't warrant it and they had no other bidders.).

http://www.nba.com/hotspots/

180/393 attempts deep in the paint last season, 202/360 this one...about 30 less, but 20 more makes.


By itself, Felton's 'hands' stat is just fine. Its just the fact that he doesn't score as much as the other guys that you mentioned.

...which is kind of ironic if you'd been a fan since we drafted him. The knock on Felton til this year was that he didn't defer enough...always going into "hero mode".

He's not there yet in always determining which is the right way to go. I think he came down and gave it to Jax and let him iso way more than he should, but for all I know that was the game plan. Maybe Jax's dominant personality demanded that he defer to him (Felton's reported "always wants to please"). Maybe it's a weakness on Felton's? We've seen him set up and run the pick/roll many times and it worked...yet we didn't see it so much this season.


He's an okay point guard for a mediocre team, thats all. Andre and Jameer do the same thing, they just have the ability to score. And Jameer... without him, Orlando isn't the same team at all. Ask any Orlando fan who watched the team try and keep the same continuity without him last year. Removing him from that team is like removing Chauncey from the Nuggets.

To the bolded though. It doesn't make sense to pay him even that given its gonna require a long term commitment. And even when you call him the 3rd best player on the team, he's waaaaaaay behind the guys who are #1 and #2. I'd rather see this team make some smart financial moves to lay some foundation down the road (mainly, not pay a guy 6+ over 4 or more seasons) and miss the playoffs next year than settle into a spot of first round cannon fodder for the next two years.

Just getting into the playoffs...is that mediocre? Maybe by one's definition I guess. I could see a team being called that who hovers in the dreaded "barely a playoff team/guaranteed 1st round exit" slot...but again even MJ pointed out that he thinks the team can get better given more time together. With the same group and relative health I think we could push for 4th and home field advantage next season. Is that too optimistic? I dunno, but I don't think it's impossible.

Felton's not that far behind *2. Jax is credited with 5.0 winshares this season (0 with GS) and Felton is credited with 6.5 winshares. Felton has helped us in a lot of games. He shot over 50% in over 1/3 of the games played this season.

11/14 vs NJ
10/12 vs TOR
8 of 13 vs CLE
7 of 12 vs MEM
7 of 10 vs CLE

He's had some crappy shooting games, but less this season than in previous seasons.

Not saying at all that Felton is better than Jax nor that we'd win more with Jax out than Felton (we wouldn't)...but Jax has some major flaws we can talk about in pages of threads too. You can't just take out a point or two and make a judgement on that with either of those two; you have to look at the overall picture and what that is or isn't worth.

I don't want to overpay him, and until the FA period kicks off we don't even know if we're bidding against anyone else. I'm fine with giving him an MLE deal if that's all it takes as it'll be fairly easy to trade anytime we want (it won't even be BYC the first year).

[BRNC]

spectre...I think having the same group together (maybe getting Flip back) it would be legit to say they could push for the #4...they had a shot at #4 very late in the season so...but we know there are signing issues specifically concerning Ray and TT...


I think most of us can agree there is no way to upgrade the PG position through FA this year...so to upgrade we have to trade...but how much future talent can we afford trading away with limited (next couple of year) picks...?

I think Rod and MJ did a good job of not giving in to "all trades" they were asked to make and we still have some young talent that we need to see how well they can play...but again...how much (if any) can we afford to trade away without sinking out of the picture?

I wanted Jax here for what we were trying to accomplish but I think he will be the key to trades if we're actually going to make changes this off-season...

[spectre]

NBA PM: Free Agent PG Depth Weak (Hoopsworld) (http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=16215)


Need a Point Guard? Teams in need of a new starting point guard this summer may have slim pickings. Our own Tommy Beer put together this nice list a few days ago of free agents by position (http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=16181) – guess how many point guards that might be considered starters are on there?

Two, depending on your perspective. Raymond Felton and T.J. Ford, and Ford are not going to be a free agent because he will exercise his Player Option. There are plenty of point guards who have been starters, like Luke Ridnour, Steve Blake, Chris Duhon, Carlos Arroyo, Jason Williams, Earl Watson, Derek Fisher, and Jamaal Tinsley to name a few. But would you spend anything more than minimal free agent money on any one of them?

Not if you wanted to create a successful team with a reliable floor leader.
If point guard is a team's top priority this summer it looks like they have two choices: sign Felton or make a trade. The Bobcats like Felton but they aren't going to overpay for him, so if any team offers him more than say $7 million to start they will probably bow out of the running (he is an unrestricted free agent because he signed the one-year Qualifying Offer last summer).

Felton has his drawbacks. He's not a consistent three-point shooter nor is he the best defender, but he has decent size and generally makes good decisions. He's solid, but not going to blow anyone away with his skills. It's quite possible a team with money who needs a point guard won't be interested in spending the cash to give him a long-term contract (but if two teams like him, he may end up getting paid far more than his actual production value).

Say Felton isn't a team's cup of tea. What are the trade options?

Mike Bibby could be available if the Atlanta Hawks do decide to blow the whole thing up. Monta Ellis could hit the trade market, though that likely depends on what happens with a possibly new ownership group and their opinion of him. He's also owed $44 million over the next four years. If the New Jersey Nets end up with John Wall in the draft Devin Harris could be available, but it's not a given. There are rumors Tony Parker in San Antonio could be available, but those have been played down and Parker is adamant he wants to stay.

Nope, there really isn't a lot out there, and there will be teams who want point guards. The L.A. Lakers are definitely one team who will be on the lookout, as will some of the teams with money like Miami HEAT and the New York Knicks.

This year's draft isn't particularly deep with point guards either – the exact opposite of 2009. Don't be surprised if some of those point guards on the free agent list or possibly available in trade end up costing more than expected, simply because of the laws of supply and demand. Low supply and normal to high demand will make sure of that.
Nothing we didn't already know...just confirming what could be a sticky situation at the 1 next season.

Oh...and the author does lose some points for the defender line. Tho he didn't look good in the playoffs he's always been an above average defender. The 3 has gotten more consistent as well.

[BRNC]

Agree...about as weak a FA position as you can get...it is going to be tough for the FO to not over-pay but I really hope they resist...I like Ray but on a reasonable contract...

[teej]

That's why I want Flip to run the point. Our point men are Diaw and Jack.

[murphman]

So he switched agents?

http://twitter.com/spearsnbayahoo

[teej]

So he switched agents?

http://twitter.com/spearsnbayahoo

Hm. I guess he wasn't happy with how his agent worked last offseason? I've never heard of Tony Dutt...

[spectre]

Hm. I guess he wasn't happy with how his agent worked last offseason? I've never heard of Tony Dutt...

...most famous for getting Rashard Lewis that fat contract out of Orlando.

He doesn't have a lot of NBA clients tho:

http://hoopshype.com/agents/tony_dutt.htm

Mainly Lewis & Bass.

[BRNC]

Bass certainly made out like a bandit for sitting in Orlando all year...but I hope Ray knows what he's going...Dutt (I'm sure) will try to get the Knicks to over-pay after they fail in the LBJ "sweeps"...:facepalm:

[DY_nasty]

Ray is gonna get a Peja contract lol

Its been real Ray! Thanks for the memories!

[spectre]

Bleacher Report - Top 50 Free Agents (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/370841-2010-nba-free-agency-the-top-50-unrestricted-free-agents#page/41)

11. Raymond Felton, PG

PPG: 12.1
APG: 5.5
SPG: 1.6

The subject of trade rumors over the past three seasons, Raymond Felton will finally have his own chance to test the market this summer, not to mention, in a free agent class where he's arguably the best point guard available.

With many teams lacking at the position, he’s likely to cash in on a big contract. That's one of the reasons he's so high on the list.

His play hasn't been consistent throughout his career, but at 25-years-old the four-year veteran still has room to grow. He's shooting .388 from three-point range, well above his career average. He is also developing a strong outside game to complement his other skills. Felton may be a bit small, but he plays big and isn’t afraid of contact in the paint.

His 2.5 assist to turnover ratio is decent, which raises concerns about his ability to hold onto the ball, but if put in a system with multiple ball-handlers he could really see his stock rise.

[teej]

"the four-year veteran still has room to grow"

What? Did he switch drafts with Ammo?

But the rest is pretty accurate. I'm just hoping we get another PG.

[Ghost Kat]

Its been real Ray! Thanks for the memories!
:yeahthat:

[murphman]

Looking more and more like Felton will be the hot PG on the market unless Washington buys out Arenas (unlikely). I can't find another potential free agent who is a decent starter in this whole class. To make things tighter, only two pgs are expected to be drafted in the top 25 picks in the draft, Wall and Bledsoe (who is a combo guard).

PG's will be a hot item this summer where supply is much more shorter than demand. The Bobcats would be wise to do a sign and trade to get something for him (unless he agrees to a cheap contract to stay home which seems very unlikely).

[spectre]

He's only worth like 3-4 million. Even then we're better off if he goes somewhere else regardless of what we're left with.

I know this because that's the position of people I'm told are unbiased. :cool:

The odds of us downgrading the PG slot are pretty high going into this season. Hopefully the FO has a plan that:

1) at least keeps us close to the status quo
2) doesn't overpay anyone
3) doesn't take on a bad contract just to cover the position
4) doesn't trade for TJ Ford

[teej]

1) at least keeps us close to the status quo
2) doesn't overpay anyone
3) doesn't take on a bad contract just to cover the position
4) doesn't trade for TJ Ford

First three are likely, but number 4, well, Nazr better not get settled. :facepalm:

[truDUKEfan]

What about going after graig smith from the clippers who is a FA, or i tried this trade that worked with orlando witch involved us sending out doris in a trade for bass and petrious which we would get our guy in bass on a good contract and a little backup help for wallace at the small forward who could spread the floor more with his shooting and LB liked his brother over the summer so why not go after the better of the 2?? idk guys it solves a need for us and we get two good solid players for one descent player who plays half assed most of the time.. Or what about going after Mo Willams in a trade? if we traded doris for Mo and danny greene it works and that would give us a young talent and a starting caliber pg who can score and run an offense. idk guys let me know what you think.........:confused::confused:

[spectre]

Smith is a FA according to DX, but assuming we can spare the cap I wouldn't have a problem going after him and we move Boris (I still have major issues with the idea of TT as the starter tho).

I like Mo ok (scoring PG...not a good distributor), but I do not like his contract:

9.3 million
8.5 million
8.5 million

If we kept Boris as a point/forward we could probably do worse than Mo. In order to take him back tho I'd want to include Gana for future cap consideration.

[murphman]

Hopefully the FO has a plan that:


4) doesn't trade for TJ Ford

With A.J. Price out through the fall with that injury and Earl Watson an UFA, I think the Pacers may be forced to keep TJ at least through the 1st half of the season.

[spectre]

Looking back, looking forward (http://blogs.charlotte.com/inside_the_nba/2010/06/looking-back-looking-forward.html)


-- Don't be shocked if the Bobcats don't re-sign Raymond Felton. It's a rarity that teams don't try to retain their high draft picks, particularly one with the deep local ties Felton has. But there are strong misgivings within the organization, following Felton's poor performance in the playoffs.

Not saying Felton can't come back. But I suspect he's worth less, in their view, now than he was a year ago.

-- I wonder how Felton's situation affects Boris Diaw. Until they address a long-term solution at point guard, it's hard to consider trading Diaw, the second-best passer on this team. That doesn't mean they like the way he played last season.
Sounds like Bonnell got someone to talk to him.

Also some LB whining.

[BRNC]

I'm not going to be "shocked" if Ray signs with a "gilted suitor" with money in the great FA signing spree coming up...he is the best PG FA this year so I expect he's gone...

[etothet]

Exactly. Someone is probably gonna show Ray the money. It is obvious the bobcats probably won't be able to afford him. So it definitely will not be a surprise if he is not signed by the bobcats. The playoffs did not hurt Ray's stock. The number 1 point guard in free agency.

[GoBobs]

Maybe we should offer him like 6yrs 43 mil with a player option at the end. Or the same deal for 3yrs 21 mil. That way at least if he goes somewhere else we know they are going to overpay at least.

If he does leave I think we should go after Nate Robinson. We should be able to get him for something reasonable and if not we will at least drive his price way up for Boston.

[ammofan]

Maybe we should offer him like 6yrs 43 mil with a player option at the end. Or the same deal for 3yrs 21 mil. That way at least if he goes somewhere else we know they are going to overpay at least.

If he does leave I think we should go after Nate Robinson. We should be able to get him for something reasonable and if not we will at least drive his price way up for Boston.

I would love to have Nate here. I really like his energy. But, I dont think he will be leaving Boston.

[Ghost Kat]

Here's where I stand on Felton

He improved last year in the beginning but when he saw his job was safe and DJ hadn't improved he went back to his old habits. Honestly , I have no problem with keeping Felton but he doesn't deserve star money.

But ,If losing Felton means the FO thinks twice about trading Diaw then by all means pay Felton

[spectre]

Glenn in Orlando:
Who among the second-tier free agents is most likely to get a near-max deal when a team with cap room strikes out on the big names?

http://www.hoopsworld.com/images/hw_icon.gif
Bill Ingram:

I think John Salmons will get a nice pay day, as will David Lee and Luis Scola. Felton could be a dark horse, as well, with the Knicks needing a PG so badly.

Read more NBA news and insight: http://www.hoopsworld.com/Chat.asp?CHAT_TOPICS_ID=996#ixzz0qC3QK9Le

I think Felton will go for a lot less than "near max", but I notice Bill did put in the qualifier "nice pay day".

[teej]

If the Knicks strike out on LeBron, Wade, and Bosh (which I think happens), then I could easily see Ray making $10 million next season in the Big Apple.

[GoBobs]

I would like to see who will offer more then 6yr 42 mil. The Knicks might offer 1yr 10 mil if they strike out on everybody but i doubt they do 5yr 50 mill. Then again the Knicks have done some really dumb things in the past like trade two first round picks for Eddy Curry.

[Scottley Crue]

If the Knicks strike out on LeBron, Wade, and Bosh (which I think happens), then I could easily see Ray making $10 million next season in the Big Apple.
I lilke Ray, but if they (or anyone else for that matter) wants to pay him $10 million a year, then I'd thank Ray for his time here and wish him well in his future endeavors.

[spectre]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/404542-nba-free-agency-each-teams-best-possible-signing-and-draft-pick#page/12

Indiana Pacers - Best Possible Signing: Raymond Felton


The Pacers definitely need a point guard; T.J. Ford and A.J. Price are the only ones on roster at this point.

They won't be able to outright sign Felton, but maybe they can nab him in a sign-and-trade and ship off someone like Mike Dunleavy for him and Alexis Ajinca or Nazr Muhammad (cap filler).

Felton was anything but spectacular in the playoffs, but playing with Danny Granger and Troy Murphy (two somewhat similar players to Stephen Jackson and Gerald Wallace) should facilitate his transition to Indiana's offense.

The Pacers won't have to commit too much to the future either; something in the three-year, $20 million range would be acceptable. In turn, they'd still have around $30 million in cap space next summer and a Felton-Granger-Roy Hibbert combo to build around.
Problem of course is that we can't afford to take back salary. Pretty sure we've had a thing for Foster in the past. I could see us possibly wanting him over Dunleavy if we could work it salarywise.

[Toocool]

If the Pacers think that we would take a fat scrub in Dunleavy for Felton, they're kidding themselves. Not only is Dunleavy past his prime, he's a 3. We have a capable 3 in Crash and great backups in Graham and UPS. They can hope all they want, but unless they take Diop or something it's a no go zone for me.

[spectre]

Yeah I agree, that idea is whacked. Remember tho this is a fan ("correspondent") idea. That's why I suggested Foster, but even then we're capped out without Felton's salary. To add a player in a S&T we're still be in the same boat if we'd kept a reasonably signed Felton.


In turn, they'd still have around $30 million in cap space next summer and a Felton-Granger-Roy Hibbert combo to build around.Off topic, but that's a heckuva nice place to be in. Imagine if they were there this offseason with all those max FAs out there. Still, with 30 million they should be able to make some killer trades.

Another team I don't peg to be ahead of us in the future standing which could potentially reverse that thought.

[ohara831]

http://blogs.charlotte.com/inside_the_nba/2010/06/felton-not-hellbent-to-stay.html

Very interesting take on things. Seems to me Ray is trying to prepare himself mentally for life outside of the Bobcats.

[ammofan]

He is good as gone imo...

[dav7z]

He is good as gone imo...

Hes gone i was told today thet we was going to try and resign TT . And we was looking to up grade the point position . He said through trade but didn't or would not say who we trying to move . But Felton is gone and im one of the biggest Felton fans hear....

[Cats4lif3]

Hes gone i was told today thet we was going to try and resign TT . And we was looking to up grade the point position . He said through trade but didn't or would not say who we trying to move . But Felton is gone and im one of the biggest Felton fans hear....

Any idea on who they may be looking for?

[spectre]

Felton And The Bobcats - Bill Ingram (http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=16480)

Nothing new...just a re-cap of what we've all beaten to death.

Bill doesn't give an opinion on whether the LT will come into play as I (and others) am starting to think will be the biggest obstacle in retaining him.

[Muttley]

Felton And The Bobcats - Bill Ingram (http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=16480)

Nothing new...just a re-cap of what we've all beaten to death.

Bill doesn't give an opinion on whether the LT will come into play as I (and others) am starting to think will be the biggest obstacle in retaining him.
I'm trying to mentally prepare myself for life after Felton. He wasn't a game-changer, by any stretch, but that doesn't mean I want to start the whole process over. Maybe if there were a trade for a new PG, then it would be one who miraculously "gets it" right away. (Doubtful)

Ingram mentions Collison, even that the 'Cats would have interest, which is intriguing. He says we'd have to take back Oak, but earlier in the article he says that NO would like to "at least get out from under James Posey," who has Diop's contract. Would Nazr for Collison & Posey be worth it? Is Collison that good?

Edit: Here's an interesting thought. For all the lame-ness that Emeka displayed on the court while here, Collison/Okafor<->Diaw/Diop just barely works in the trade checker, or at least it will on July 1st. (I know, that doesn't mean crap.) We save a ton of short-term cash. We don't lose out on our big expiring (TC). hmm... intriguing.

[spectre]

I emailed Bill and he says he still thinks Felton is our best option going into next season, but he agrees that we won't even flirt with the LT (going over but then getting under by the trade deadline). He said there's no way we'd take back Okafor but Mo might be a good gamble. Bill thinks he's a much better PG than he showed in Cleveland...his line was:


he's better as a point guard when he has the ball in his hands. Hard to lead a team without the ballI of course voiced my great fear about TJ...and he responded with:


TJ Ford is a friend, but I wouldn't want him as my starting point guard at this point in his career. Not if I wanted to make the playoffs.I'm starting to warm to the idea of Mo Williams...which of course almost guarantees we'll trade for TJ.

He also agreed the Hedo trade made absolutely no sense...so I also expect that to go down on draft night.

[spectre]

Edit: Here's an interesting thought. For all the lame-ness that Emeka displayed on the court while here, Collison/Okafor<->Diaw/Diop just barely works in the trade checker, or at least it will on July 1st. (I know, that doesn't mean crap.) We save a ton of short-term cash. We don't lose out on our big expiring (TC). hmm... intriguing.

I'd do that in a heartbeat...but I bet NOLA gets a better offer. I think I read that Indiana is contemplating taking one of those salaries and including the 10th overall pick. Could be wrong though.

[Muttley]

I'm starting to warm to the idea of Mo Williams...which of course almost guarantees we'll trade for TJ.
Did he opine on who could be involved in a Mo Williams trade?

[spectre]

Did he opine on who could be involved in a Mo Williams trade?

Nah...I'm not sure he'd even heard about it. I gave him what I thought it would take. The rumor had DJ involved but that's not enough salary. I know darn well they'd never consider Gana...so that kind of left Nazr by default. That also makes some sense as they'll most likely let Shaq walk.

[teej]

I of course voiced my great fear about TJ...and he responded with:
I'm starting to warm to the idea of Mo Williams...which of course almost guarantees we'll trade for TJ.

He also agreed the Hedo trade made absolutely no sense...so I also expect that to go down on draft night.

I love this.

Though if we didn't give up too much for TJ I'd be fine with it.

[SCBobcat]

One of the hardest things to do in running a professional team is to know when to decline to extend a good player. Like the TV show says, everyone loves Raymond for his spirit, his drive, his dedication to the team, etc. The problem is that he is merely pretty good. Matt Carrol was the same way--very likeable and good. Exteding Matt (and bringing in the biscuit) hurt us long-term and we pannicked. As an aside, MC's contract is soon to be about 3.5 per and we are stuck with Gana's approaching 7. Yikes.

[spectre]

Thing is "pretty good" tops every option out there where we don't have to give up an asset. Normally that's not a killer, but as we only have like 11 guys under contract and no overloaded position odds are we'll end up getting weaker somewhere else.

Besides...money (luxury tax) is the tail wagging this dog.

[Cats4lif3]

I think bobcats should trade dj and nazr for mo and jj

[ammofan]

I think bobcats should trade dj and nazr for mo and jj

That would be awesome

[Cats4lif3]

I'd even do dj and diaw for mo and jj. Then draft Torrence or another combo guard

[millst2]

We just need a better 4, and get rid of diaws lackadaisical ass. Mo williams isn't a bad option if his attitude stays in check. I would hope we upgrade the 4, we need a solid replacement for felton and we need to bring in josh childress or see if we can get jj reddick. I know all of us have seen this year how important it is to have a 3pt scoring threat.