They key to next year?

[Plowright]

I am not saying i am correct, but my opinion is that next year our next step is for your young players: DJ, henderson, derrick brown, Lexy, Tyrus. Must improve. Yes maybe one or tow little off season moves e.g. GET FLIP BACK! I dont know if we need a major change like some people say.

[ohara831]

I am not saying i am correct, but my opinion is that next year our next step is for your young players: DJ, henderson, derrick brown, Lexy, Tyrus. Must improve. Yes maybe one or tow little off season moves e.g. GET FLIP BACK! I dont know if we need a major change like some people say.

I agree with all that you said. And the biggest questions mark is Lexy. It would be simply sickening if it turns out we gave up a 1st for nothing. If he doesn't pan out, it will be another Adam Morrison fiasco - but at #19 rather than #3, which makes it a little more easy to swallow. But my gosh, our track record on drafts is astonishingly bad. It may turn out that the best player we drafted was a 2nd rounder in UPS!

[truDUKEfan]

Dudley was a decent draft.

[Fred Williamson]

The key for next year? Learn how to shoot the 3. Simple as that

[ammofan]

I agree with all that you said. And the biggest questions mark is Lexy. It would be simply sickening if it turns out we gave up a 1st for nothing. If he doesn't pan out, it will be another Adam Morrison fiasco - but at #19 rather than #3, which makes it a little more easy to swallow. But my gosh, our track record on drafts is astonishingly bad. It may turn out that the best player we drafted was a 2nd rounder in UPS!

Wow would youy guys shu up about Morrison. He hasn't panned out to be what we thought he was, but come on man....you cant compare him to Lexy. Adam averaged 11.8 ppg in his rookie year. That's good in my book. He was looking good in the summer of 07 and then got hurt in the preseason and was out for the year. He may have came out and played great in season 2. It does take some guys some time to find their game in the NBA.

Lexy has done NOTHING in the NBA thus far. Until he does, dont say he's another Morrison. Morrison did something, lex has done nothing and really isnt even part of the team.

[ohara831]

Dudley was a decent draft.

Very true. And LB did nto give him a chance, traded him away, and look at his production now. Frustrating.

[ajbry]

The key for next season is better frontcourt play. The Chandler/Diaw pairing is pathetic.

Every team (and fanbase) aspires for the young players on the roster to improve for the upcoming season and make legitimate contributions, but it rarely happens. You'll probably get one guy who surpasses expectations but that's about it.

IMO, Tyrus is essentially what he's going to be for a while - I'd look for Derrick Brown to be the guy who makes a substantial leap in the upcoming season.

[teej]

Very true. And LB did nto give him a chance, traded him away, and look at his production now. Frustrating.

Dudley said LB wasn't a good situation for him, and that as long as LB was there Dude couldn't maximize his talent. And PHX demanded he came wth J-Rich.

And AJ, if TC is healthy, he's perfect, Diaw, well, not so much.

[ajbry]

And AJ, if TC is healthy, he's perfect, Diaw, well, not so much.

I agree, but the caveat with TC is that he never stays healthy. :biggrin:

Diaw HAS to be moved.

[K1NGofAKR0N]

we should trade jax. and then start UPS. and please trade into the draft

[DY_nasty]

we should trade jax. and then start UPS. and please trade into the draftI'm all for playing the young guys but UPS has a LOOOOONG ways to go before he should touch starter minutes.

[davcbow]

I dont think LB is finished yet with this team, anyone that dont produce LB's way could end up on the trade table.. Rook or vet... I feel we are his last coaching stop and I would think he wants to win a trophy before he is finished...:cool:

[SWedd523]

The key to next year?




Sign me to run point. I'll play for 100k so there will be plenty of money to toss at Tyrus.

[Toocool]

Are you joking? UPS is a undersized 4, and slowly developing his 3 game. Jax is a 2. How would sticking a 4 at the 2 make sense? It's like chucking Bosh at the 4 because they traded Beninelli. And like DY_nasty said, UPS does have a long way to go.

For this season, we need our young guys to step up. Crash and Jax can't keep playing 40+ mins a game (although that might be a fault of LB with his rotation and not trusting his bench players). Hendo is great defensively, but needs to bring more to the offensive side of the table. Over the off-season, probably gonna get his dad to help him with his game. UPS is developing well, and we all saw what he could do. Ajinca has rushed his ass back to France...so I have no idea what to expect really. DJ might not be here next season, I wouldn't be surprised if he's traded off. If he stays, he needs to work hard.

Swedd, they can sign me up for 90k instead of your 100k, since that would turn into around 120k AUS. It'll be like a 5"7 short skinny guy running point with horrible handles. Not to mention I can't shoot or layup with my left hand =].

[Marvel]

Derrick Brown is the future........i want him playing 20+ mins next season.

[DY_nasty]

Alexis is the future........i want him playing 20+ mins next season.
Fixed that for you.

[SCBobcat]

It'll be like a 5"7 short skinny guy running point ... Not to mention I can't shoot or layup with my left hand =].

Dude, are you Brevin Knight??

[Toocool]

Dude, are you Brevin Knight??

No. I'm better :biggrin:. Plus, Brevin has at least 3 inches on me.
BK couldn't do crap. Although BK was better than McInnis, my dead grandfather could play better than McInnis and he hadn't probably seen a basketball in his life.

[bing!]

6'4'' skinny guy running point with horrible handles. Not to mention I can't shoot or layup with my left hand =].

I'd be willing to play for next to nothing... could use the promotion for my fresh & spanking hip-hop venture. :rolleyes:

... or they could hire swedd, cool and I and give Larry Bird a run for his money in the 'white-out' contest.

[Demon DeaCat]

Totally agree on playing the young guys. We desperately need Lexi and Brown to pan out. We can't continue to rely on trading for guys whose best days are behind them.

[spectre]

Is it that we don't play the young guys because LB doesn't play young guys...or is it that we we don't play the young guys because they don't deserve it?

From what I've seen so far it's the latter for the most part, tho I'm not going to sit here and not say that LB's player rotations haven't left me a little confused in a lot of instances.

[Plowright]

Reason Dudley got traded is that he is about as unathletic as you can get, he set himself a personal goal of dunking the ball 3 times in a game this year ( hes actually done it 4) Larry Brown LOVES athleticism!!!

[DY_nasty]

Is it that we don't play the young guys because LB doesn't play young guys...or is it that we we don't play the young guys because they don't deserve it?

From what I've seen so far it's the latter for the most part, tho I'm not going to sit here and not say that LB's player rotations haven't left me a little confused in a lot of instances.
All I know is... Stephen Graham should have never started a single game this season.

As long as there are at least 7 on people on the roster, 5 of them are better than Diop and Graham.

[teej]

All I know is... Stephen Graham should have never started a single game this season.

As long as there are at least 7 on people on the roster, 5 of them are better than Diop and Graham.

Get back to me when UPS or Hendo score 20 points or block 4 shots.

Diop and Graham are perfectly serviceable defensive players, and Graham can shoot, thus making him more effective than Hendo.

[spectre]

All I know is... Stephen Graham should have never started a single game this season.

As long as there are at least 7 on people on the roster, 5 of them are better than Diop and Graham.

:biggrin:

He played really well around/during that stretch Crash was out (March 14 - 17). For a 3 game stretch he shot 19 for 27 and had 19 boards.

Sadly it appeared to be a flash in the pan...but I don't think he's as bad as you're implying (LOL...or saying flat out!).

Do you think Hendo played better in the little amounts of time that we saw him? I remember a game or two he looked good, but that's about it.

IMO if anyone has the room to bitch it's UPS...but then again I wasn't at the practices where I'm sure a lot of PT is earned or lost.

[Demon DeaCat]

Is it that we don't play the young guys because LB doesn't play young guys...or is it that we we don't play the young guys because they don't deserve it?

From what I've seen so far it's the latter for the most part, tho I'm not going to sit here and not say that LB's player rotations haven't left me a little confused in a lot of instances.

Honestly, of all the young guys, the only one who really deserved to play more was Brown. Lexi and Hendo certainly haven't done anything, at least no in their limited time on the floor, to jump ahead of anybody else in the rotation. That being said, I think if you're going to invest a 1st round pick in a guy, and in Lexi's case a future 1st, you need to give him enough of an opportunity to make it worth the investment.

As for Graham, I don't know why anyone would rip on him. That guy saved us when GW was hurt and contributed every time he was called on, despite really sporadic minutes. I don't know how anyone could ask for anything more than what he gave us.

(edit: Spectre, didn't mean to re-state pretty much everything you already said. I guess that's what happens when you don't read thoroughly.)

[spectre]

Not a problem Demon. Nice to see someone agree with me every once and a while!

LB was kind of in a "no win" situation. I agree that if you're going to invest in a future 1st like we did with Jinx you need to invest the time in him. Thing was LB was in "win now" mode, so it's hard to give guys PT when they're more apt to hurt you right now.

[DY_nasty]

Maybe if LB wasn't so quick to snatch the younger guys right out of the game for little stuff they'd have a little more confidence in taking their shots...

I remember plenty of times late in the season where Hendo was scared to shoot because of it. I could understand early in the season because thats where most rookies typically make the adjustment, but its clear that the lack of PT has put Henderson way behind the curve. He can work on his jumpshot all summer long then come back and be way off for half of the season because he's never had the opportunity to adjust his game to the speed of the NBA OR know the rhythm of his own offense against NBA competition. Practice can only do so much, you need to play the kid. 40 games where he didn't see the court? Get over yourself Larry.

[Marvel]

Kidding me here.It has absolutely nothing to do with "deserving".Brown played well this season when he got the chance as for Hendo there's absolutely zero evidence to say he could have done better.Even if he made a mistake here or there he's a rookie for crying out loud.LB gives rookies no confidence and that's a HUGE factor to consider when developing your rookies.



Get back to me when UPS or Hendo score 20 points or block 4 shots


Get back to me when you get a brain.



IMO if anyone has the room to bitch it's UPS...but then again I wasn't at the practices where I'm sure a lot of PT is earned or lost.


How does that help player development.That's a pretty hazy statement if you weren't there like you said.I'd rather have a player give me production on the court in a game rather than give me 20 points 100 rebounds and 50 blocks at practice.
I'm sure Diaw looks like a shining star at practice, unfortuantely he's far from one in 80% of games.

[DY_nasty]

We talkin bout practice? Practice? NOT THE GAME. ...practice? practice.

Some guys are gamers - the only way to find out is by putting them on the floor.

I mean damn, Henderson actually did a very admirable job in the game against the Lakers. His reward? More pine to ride.

[spectre]

How does that help player development.That's a pretty hazy statement if you weren't there like you said.I'd rather have a player give me production on the court in a game rather than give me 20 points 100 rebounds and 50 blocks at practice.
I'm sure Diaw looks like a shining star at practice, unfortuantely he's far from one in 80% of games.

:shrug:

I'm not sure what you're saying. All I stated was that I wasn't at practice so I have no idea of any other factors that might be in play in determining the rook's PT.

Are you arguing against judging them in practice? I appreciate that but it's not like it's my call here...I'm just stating how I think Larry Brown determines PT. Since he himself implies that he'd rather run practice then coach an actual game I don't think figuring practice plays a big part in PT is a big leap of faith.

[bing!]

^ that leads to some dreadful thoughts. If Boris warrants a starting position with his (I ain't gonna bash) mellow all-around effort (which, I'm sure, he carries on from the practice court), what sort of performance are Derrick and Tyrus putting on, I wonder?

I know I'd make for a horrible coach, but sacrificing, in a manner of speaking, a half-a-dozen games to test the waters (the results of which could even prove beneficial to the team) is something I'd do in a jiffy, regardless of my 'principles'. Larry did great with the assets at hand, but this team needs a progressive mind-set when it comes to distributing minutes (something Larry is loath to attempt, it seems).

[BRNC]

If there is one "young" player that needs to step up it is Hendo...I hope he is working this summer on his game...

I doubt Lexi or DJ do any better if LB is back next year...they're in his dog-house and looks (to me) like they stay in it...

UPS is the head-scratcher for me...I think he deserved more time but oh well...

TT is what he is...not sure if he'll be back so I don't know what to say about him...

[kickazzz2000]

If there is one "young" player that needs to step up it is Hendo...I hope he is working this summer on his game...

I doubt Lexi or DJ do any better if LB is back next year...they're in his dog-house and looks (to me) like they stay in it...

UPS is the head-scratcher for me...I think he deserved more time but oh well...

TT is what he is...not sure if he'll be back so I don't know what to say about him...

Funny how the two guys HE wanted are in his doghouse.

Sometimes I wonder how bad he would have screwed Melo up if DTW had drafted him instead of Darko...

[dunnlx]

Win now mode, with the Bobcats roster, yeah right. This f#$@*&g team has a pathetic roster, with no post player. Win now my azz!

Not a problem Demon. Nice to see someone agree with me every once and a while!

LB was kind of in a "no win" situation. I agree that if you're going to invest in a future 1st like we did with Jinx you need to invest the time in him. Thing was LB was in "win now" mode, so it's hard to give guys PT when they're more apt to hurt you right now.

[Toocool]

Win now mode, with the Bobcats roster, yeah right. This f#$@*&g team has a pathetic roster, with no post player. Win now my azz!

Our post players consist of the following:
TT: Unreliable hook shot. Solid mid range jumper.
TC: Even more unreliable hook shot that is rarely seen. Not solid at all from mid range.
Diop: Stand, pray, get ball and try to jam it in for a dunk.
Theo: Dunk and a few zombie post moves
Nazzy: Mid range and a bit of a back to the basket post moves.

All combined, they add up to...a decent post player :biggrin:.

[spectre]

Win now mode, with the Bobcats roster, yeah right. This f#$@*&g team has a pathetic roster, with no post player. Win now my azz!

...and yet this same "f#$@*&g team" with it's pathetic roster had a record of 32 and 20 for the 2010 season. If we had went into the season with the same group we ended it with it could easily be argued that we could have went into the post season with home court advantage the 1st round.

Maybe you should step back put into perspective the fact that we've only been in the league for 6 years now. Building a solid consistent team takes a little bit of time...esp. if you make as many mistakes as the original FO did.

Either way we WERE in "win now" mode and the playoffs was our goal (which in turn led to spurring more interest in the fanbase). I think they accomplished that.

[Demon DeaCat]

I know I'd make for a horrible coach, but sacrificing, in a manner of speaking, a half-a-dozen games to test the waters (the results of which could even prove beneficial to the team) is something I'd do in a jiffy, regardless of my 'principles'. Larry did great with the assets at hand, but this team needs a progressive mind-set when it comes to distributing minutes (something Larry is loath to attempt, it seems).


While I would have liked to see the rooks get more PT, we were vying for a playoff tspot so sacrificing games wasn't really an option. We were definitely in "win now" mode, as we should have been. I think there were probably a few games here or there when we could have rested GW and Jack a little more just so they would have been fresher down the stretch, but even doing that wouldn't have gotten Hendo on the floor because Graham/Flip/Hughes clearly proved to be better options.

The one thing I did question though was why we went out of our way to get Tyrus. I really like Tyrus' potential and I'm happy to have him now that we do, but I don't know why we needed to trade for a back up PF, and give up Flip and a 1st in the process, when we had Brown who had played well earlier in the year and could have handled those minutes. Even Lexi was playing well in the D-league before he got hurt, yet we never called him back up. I probably would have given those 2 guys a chance before pulling the trigger on the TT trade, which will backfire on us in a major way if we don't re-sign him.

[spectre]

The one thing I did question though was why we went out of our way to get Tyrus. I really like Tyrus' potential and I'm happy to have him now that we do, but I don't know why we needed to trade for a back up PF, and give up Flip and a 1st in the process, when we had Brown who had played well earlier in the year and could have handled those minutes. Even Lexi was playing well in the D-league before he got hurt, yet we never called him back up. I probably would have given those 2 guys a chance before pulling the trigger on the TT trade, which will backfire on us in a major way if we don't re-sign him.

Good point.

If the rumors are to be believed we did it to shut LB up (but of course it didn't...again according to rumors LB then went on to complain about loosing Flip!).

[teej]

Henderson had two meaningful games. The first was against Toronto, the second LA. That's two games his entire rookie season where he looked capable of being on the court. The rest of the time he looked confused and just plain bad. Don't use the LA game as a reason for him getting PT if you're going to conviently ignore all his poor performances.

Brown played well, and got decent PT accordingly. In this system, where winning is more important that player development, you can't really complain. Had this team not made the playoffs, I have a feeling UPS, Hendo, DJ, and anyone else under 30 would've been on the trading block.

I have no clue why you all think that the rookies/sophomores should've played over proven vets. We're not Sacramento, we can't afford (financially) to lose. If you want to place blame on LB, then give him credit for making an expansion draftee an All-Star, and making Stephen Jackson happy. This is the greatest fundementals coach in the game today, and I have a feeling when he moves on, UPS and Hendo will show he helped them tremendously.

And Marvel, that wasn't necessary.

[DY_nasty]

Henderson had two meaningful games. The first was against Toronto, the second LA. That's two games his entire rookie season where he looked capable of being on the court. The rest of the time he looked confused and just plain bad. Don't use the LA game as a reason for him getting PT if you're going to conviently ignore all his poor performances.

Brown played well, and got decent PT accordingly. In this system, where winning is more important that player development, you can't really complain. Had this team not made the playoffs, I have a feeling UPS, Hendo, DJ, and anyone else under 30 would've been on the trading block.

I have no clue why you all think that the rookies/sophomores should've played over proven vets. We're not Sacramento, we can't afford (financially) to lose. If you want to place blame on LB, then give him credit for making an expansion draftee an All-Star, and making Stephen Jackson happy. This is the greatest fundementals coach in the game today, and I have a feeling when he moves on, UPS and Hendo will show he helped them tremendously.

And Marvel, that wasn't necessary.
I'm not 'conveniently' ignoring performances. And since when is Graham a proven vet? The guy is a complete washout bum that only has a chance of success on a mediocre team like ours in a system like ours. But I'll stay on the topic of Henderson since I don't even want to go down that road...

Back to Henderson - How can you blame a guy for looking confused and for the most part overwhelmed on the court when he doesn't see the court at all for 40 games? Lets take your Toronto game for example. He played pretty good right? Its early in the season, this should be something that can be built on to help the team through the rest of the season right? WRONG. Next game he doesn't even see all of 3 minutes. Okay, that was against Cleveland though. Maybe the next game... BAM 4 total minutes. Okay... Another Boston game. I could somewhat understand Henderson not playing this game except for the fact that Flip went 2-12. Instead of trying to get ANY confidence instilled in Henderson by letting him jump into any of the games after his good one early in the season against Toronto, he nails him to the bench. By the way, in that Celtics game Henderson was +13 while the next closest Bobcat was +1. What does LB do after seeing this in the Boston game? NO He doesn't make the logical move, realize his mistake in punishing a guy who didn't do anything wrong, he instead decides not to play him at all against NJ. Zero minutes. And just like that Henderson's rhythm and adjustment to the NBA is stone walled, as evidence in the game against Philly. Confidence smashed. Great Job Larry Brown. The bench just got that much shallower.

Look at Harden, in the same 'win now' type of season his first few games were absolutely terrible. Did they bench him for life? No. Were there two separate months where he only touched the court twice? No. Instead, when he had a good game, they did everything possible in the organization to ensure that he'd keep it up. They'd play him, adjust rotations so that he'd have the best chances to succeed within the team's play style. Thats how you handle a struggling rookie.

Also, about Derrick Brown. I like him, but he's got a ways to go. The guy is very out of control on offense. Don't think thats hard to debate...

[Marvel]

And Marvel, that wasn't necessary.

You were serious........my bad.

[spectre]

Thing with Hendo was that not only did he look confused...the boy just couldn't shoot. For many games our bench just flat sucked, continually getting outscored by their backup opponents. We needed scoring, and the guys who got PT over Hendo were players known as scorers (Flip/Hughes).

Gerald Henderson - 09-10 Review (http://www.queencityhoops.com/Henderson0910Review.php)


Bad news: Gerald takes more long twos than threes: Stop that. It is not an efficient shot - and as such, Gerald shot just 35.6% from the field and 21.1% from deep. That mark of 21.1% from deep is atrocious - but it is barely different from what Henderson did on long twos, where he shot 33%. 21.1 * 3 = 63.3. 33.0 * 2 = 66.0. The point: Gerald, stop taking jumpers until you are better at it - maybe only shoot from the foul line and in for a bit. Definitely stop curling off screens and pulling up for a jumper with a foot on the line or just a step in from three - it makes me yell at the tv.Note: a good thread would be comparing our bench production to the other 29 teams in the league for last season. Anyone know where that info might be readily obtainable?

[Marvel]

Yeah i don't like Hendo's jumper.Especially off the dribble,on the catch and shoot he's alright in terms of form but his jumper OTD is terrible.He just needs more court time to improve his IQ.Often when he was attacking/penetrating he would dribble into double teams or he would just attack for the sake of attacking.He wasn't reading anything, he would just play like a chicken with it's head cut off.But i just want to see him get more court time to see what he can really do.If he's "got it" then this season should have lit a fire under his ass to make him come back next season a better player.

[DY_nasty]

You guys make it sound like Henderson was actually ever told or encouraged to shoot... he only took 100 shots over the course of the season lol. Goes back to letting the kid get his feet underneath him. He doesn't even know what an NBA rhythm looks like.

Derrick Brown has a ways to go. He's like Tyrus in small forward form, without the freakish athleticism. I feel better about him than Tyrus mainly because he's still a rookie, and he clearly has the work ethic. But yeah... He's gotta real it in. Derrick is way more out of control than Gerald ever was.