Running the Offense Primarily Thru Jax

[spectre]

:hysterical:

That was my first reaction anyway when Baseline offered their 1st "prescription" to our situation financially this upcoming season. That (and the intro blog post laying out our issues are here (http://www.bobcatsbaseline.com/blog/).

Basically we move Boris for Hinrich which I'm not totally against...Hinrich IMO is a good "Plan B" if we can't re-sign Felton or get a better PG...start TT at the 4 and get Nocioni as his backup.

Ignoring the pros and cons of all that...is the idea of letting Jax play distributor even remotely possible? I know he was "all things" in GSW at one point or another AND I also know LB talked about how he stopped the ball rotation during the playoffs, but can he adapt to that role?

If we're not getting a true distributing PG this season and Jax can't be this distributor...how can we possibly consider trading Boris?

So...for this thread let's focus on retaining ball movement next season. How do we improve or even keep the status quo without killing our ball movement...which BTW is integral to our type of team since we really have no superstar to just give the ball to and get points.

If you advocate trading Boris (and unless it's for Steve Nash) how are we going to move the ball?

[bing!]

If Felton decides to stay on board, then try to move Boris (&shit) for a complementary pg (&shit).

If Felts decides to bolt, retain Boris and pray. Then again, we could experiment, hand the reigns over to D.J. and see how that pans out (at least, during Oct-Nov) (whether Ray is there for the '10-'11 or not). Either way you flip it, keeping status quo is the only thing to hope for... and as a fan of a team so governed by ball-movement, the notion mentioned is kinda bringing me down.

Others can feel free to mention names cuz I haven't the slightest idea who's available on the market.

[Chef]

:hysterical:

That was my first reaction anyway when Baseline offered their 1st "prescription" to our situation financially this upcoming season. That (and the intro blog post laying out our issues are here (http://www.bobcatsbaseline.com/blog/).

Basically we move Boris for Hinrich which I'm not totally against...Hinrich IMO is a good "Plan B" if we can't re-sign Felton or get a better PG...start TT at the 4 and get Nocioni as his backup.

Ignoring the pros and cons of all that...is the idea of letting Jax play distributor even remotely possible? I know he was "all things" in GSW at one point or another AND I also know LB talked about how he stopped the ball rotation during the playoffs, but can he adapt to that role?

If we're not getting a true distributing PG this season and Jax can't be this distributor...how can we possibly consider trading Boris?

So...for this thread let's focus on retaining ball movement next season. How do we improve or even keep the status quo without killing our ball movement...which BTW is integral to our type of team since we really have no superstar to just give the ball to and get points.

If you advocate trading Boris (and unless it's for Steve Nash) how are we going to move the ball?

I would so much rather have Hinrich at 17 mil for 2 years than Ray at 45-50 for 5 years. Plus he comes off the books in 2012 right when a certain point guard in New Orleans is a free agent.

[spectre]

I would so much rather have Hinrich at 17 mil for 2 years than Ray at 45-50 for 5 years. Plus he comes off the books in 2012 right when a certain point guard in New Orleans is a free agent.

Well heck yeah...but I don't think anyone really believes he'll get a contract worth 9-10 million per year. If he signed a similar deal to the one he was offered by us last offseason those 2 years would cost us like 11 million.

Neither one really promotes a lot of ball movement though. Not saying they don't at all as they both have decent court vision...just that both wouldn't be best at being the sole facilitator. Main thing I'm concerned with is who does that, esp. if we're considering moving Boris.

[BRNC]

spectre...the wild card for me in any discussion of change is Jackson...he had a very solid year and (IMO) has at least a couple of good years left...he'd be a solid player for a couple of teams but what exactly would we get back for him...I have no idea...

If LB returns he'll want to keep as many vets as possible so I don't see us "going younger" if that happens...my best guess is he tries to move DJ/Lexi for something and if Ray is not retained he'll make a push for a vet PG is is comfortable having run the team...

I'm not sure what any trade of DJ/Lexi would bring...so I'm clueless (making a realistic) as to how we make any meaningful trade without Crash or Jackson not leaving...and if that is the case I pick Jackson as it...but we're left in the same position as last year before we traded for him...:g:

I doubt "Doris" has enough value to bring back much by himself...but he (and Jackson) have too many TOs to play together...so (IMO) one of them has to go...I'd vote "Doris" but we'd only get another Diop for him at this point...

I just doubt or capability to really do any meaningful trade that upgrades the team at this point...I say that because my best-guess is our FO is perceived as "easy" and the trade for TT (with a 1st thrown in) to a team desperate to move that particular player only reinforces that perception...:facepalm:

[GoBobs]

trade Stephen Jackson he is a turnover machine

[ajbry]

It's difficult to build an offense around a wing player - and not a point guard - when the wing is your primary scorer and distributor.

Jack is best suited to be a primary scorer and an auxiliary playmaker. He obviously can hover around the 4 APG mark quite easily but if you're asking for more, you're going to have a high-risk offense.

The offense clearly ran through Jack last season and I don't see any reason why it won't run through him again in '10-11. Hopefully he'll become more familiar with his teammates' tendencies and that'll make the distributing aspect of his game more consistent and reliable.

I absolutely understand the issue with turnovers, but holding Boris and Jack solely accountable for their high TO numbers isn't quite fair. In a cramped offense that lacks spacing (and legitimate scoring threats beyond 2 players on the entire roster) - your playmakers are going to force things because the defense is able to exert a good deal of pressure on your distributors.

Boris, of course, needs to go.

Basically, I think we should expect another 21-ish PPG season from Jack with 4 assists and hopefully a little better with the TOs.

[spectre]

Glad you chimed in ajbry.

I don't think we ran the offense thru Jax per se...I think it was more that we tried to exploit the mismatches he almost always caused at the 2 on the block. Typically in that scenario he holds the ball/tries to break down his defender and then passes if another is open (or even if he wasn't!).

To me that's different than what we did with Boris, basically crossing the time line and handing it to him at the top of the key.

Did Jax ever play the point/forward role in GSW?

[Fred Williamson]

If we would let our offense run through Jax, we would lead the league in turnovers by a large margin and Jax would became the first player in NBA history to average 20 points and 10 turnovers

[ajbry]

Glad you chimed in ajbry.

I don't think we ran the offense thru Jax per se...I think it was more that we tried to exploit the mismatches he almost always caused at the 2 on the block. Typically in that scenario he holds the ball/tries to break down his defender and then passes if another is open (or even if he wasn't!).

To me that's different than what we did with Boris, basically crossing the time line and handing it to him at the top of the key.

Did Jax ever play the point/forward role in GSW?

Perhaps we have different ideas of what running the offense through someone means. I generally associate the #1 option as that player.

Actually, I thought the offense needed to be run through Jack in the post much more often. He's a matchup problem for 2-guards, as you said, but he's a very good post player anyway and running the offense inside out would've been useful.

Yeah, he was a point forward for essentially his entire Warriors career. He and Baron were the principal distributors (Baron to a larger extent) for the 1.5 seasons they were together. Ellis racked up some assist numbers but he never really got teammates involved in the same way BD and Jack did. BD was fantastic at drawing the D and kicking to open shooters - Jack equally adept at getting the big men involved for dunks and layups. Last year (when BD left for LA), he averaged 6.5 dimes a night.

[spectre]

Yeah I think that's it (different views). I don't look at a post up guy as the primary facilitator although he does do it a lot...as any post up player should else he'll just get double teamed all the time.

I agree with you that we should have exploited it more. LB seemed to react more to other teams looking to take advantage of us then us trying to take advantage of them.

Heck, maybe it'd work with Jax as a point/forward (from the 2 spot). Maybe it's just a matter of getting used to the other players' comfort spots like you said.

[teej]

What if we traded Boris, DJ, and filler for B-Diddy and filler?

Solves the PG/distributor problem...

[DY_nasty]

Not a fan of seeing drunken PG play.

[Chef]

Perhaps we have different ideas of what running the offense through someone means. I generally associate the #1 option as that player.

Actually, I thought the offense needed to be run through Jack in the post much more often. He's a matchup problem for 2-guards, as you said, but he's a very good post player anyway and running the offense inside out would've been useful.

Yeah, he was a point forward for essentially his entire Warriors career. He and Baron were the principal distributors (Baron to a larger extent) for the 1.5 seasons they were together. Ellis racked up some assist numbers but he never really got teammates involved in the same way BD and Jack did. BD was fantastic at drawing the D and kicking to open shooters - Jack equally adept at getting the big men involved for dunks and layups. Last year (when BD left for LA), he averaged 6.5 dimes a night.

couldn't agree more. the offense runs through ray. ray brings it up and decides who gets the ball. jax is our primary scorer. it seems that many of us are forgetting what october and november looked like offensively. we were horrid. we were all clamoring for a scorer and the bobcats actually went out and got one and we got much much better. not saying we should keep jax at all costs, but if we do trade him we better have a plan to get another #1 scorer.

[Ghost Kat]

I can't believe what I'm reading....Are you folk seriously trying to find reasons to keep Boris? His sorta kinda playmaking skills? Where were those skills in the playoffs? How about during the season? Do they make up for the fact he doesn't rebound or defend the post? Trade Boris for Brandon Bass or some else with some man balls. Boris is a bitch and I will have no part in finding a reason to keep him.