View Full Version : To Retain or Not to Retain Tyrus
spectre
05-26-2010, 10:23 AM
I'm going to assume we give him the qualifying offer, but I'll give the option of not offering it in the poll.
Do we do it with the leap of faith that he's going to be a long term fit/starter (I hope to hell we're not willing to pay that for a backup for the next 2-3 years) or do we do it in order to get value back?
I'm going to ignore any possible ridiculous offers a team under the cap might make.
sign and trade. we need to get something considering we gave up a 1st. he has pay-day player written all over him. i think he will be a big pain in the ass as soon as he inks a long term deal. there is a reason he couldn't get off the bench in chicago.
I went with S&T also...IMO his lack of BB IQ will not endear him to LB and LB will lower his value next season...trade him now while he has value...
dav7z
05-26-2010, 11:00 AM
S&t seems to best way to play things. When i say S&T i mean a one year QO.
We get a nice feel of his open market value . We not tied into his contract for years ,if he stays and have another year to deternime his value to us.
I have a feeling a lot of teams would like to have TTs contract . It might be a valueable asset.
dav7z
05-26-2010, 11:30 AM
Felton ranked at number 19# and TT even higher at 16# makes things instresting .
Hears a list of the top 50 free agents . Its some deals from 25 back .
http://nba.fanhouse.com/2010/04/06/top-50-2010-nba-free-agents/
Toocool
05-26-2010, 12:10 PM
S&T, best thing to do. Then if he performs well and meshes, we can sign him long term.
GoBobs
05-26-2010, 12:31 PM
I think he is a perfect fit for our team. His defense is naturally great and his offense is coming along. He was more then solid for us this year in the playoffs. I see Wallace and Tyrus as the main two guys we should be trying to build our team around.
The only thing that worries me about his situation this summer is if the nets or the knicks offer something like 1 yr 11 mil. The amount of money is a non issue to them as long as its on a short contract where they can still chase Mello next year. For us it would be very hard to match with the lux tax. Although, we could start the year in the tax and make a salary dump before the deadline to avoid it.
Marvel
05-26-2010, 08:25 PM
Agree with most here,s&t while he has value.He has "get the money and run" written all over him.
SWedd523
05-26-2010, 08:43 PM
I don't see why it matters if he's expiring or not. Diaw is expiring so wouldn't he act the same way? Tyrus is better than Diaw so as far as what to do with the PF slot, I say trade Diaw and keep Tyrus
DY_nasty
05-26-2010, 09:02 PM
I don't see why it matters if he's expiring or not. Diaw is expiring so wouldn't he act the same way? Tyrus is better than Diaw so as far as what to do with the PF slot, I say trade Diaw and keep Tyrus
No one actually wants Diaw though. Or his contract.
Tyrus for cheap is lovely. People want him, it'd give us the immediate advantage in every trade negotiation.
G-Force
05-26-2010, 09:55 PM
Definitely sign T2 for the long term. At worst, his skill doesn't improve and he only contribute as much at he did this year... Which is pretty decent IMO. Or play to his full potential and become an all-star; @ 6mil/yr it'll be a great value.
For what the Bobcats gave up, I'm sure they will resign him. MJ is not stupid to give up a 1st rounder to have T2 for only 3 months.
CTownSC
05-26-2010, 11:22 PM
I was stoked when we got him...I hope we keep him
I don't see why it matters if he's expiring or not. Diaw is expiring so wouldn't he act the same way?
:confused:
Boris is here the next two years?
Fred Williamson
05-27-2010, 03:10 AM
Or play to his full potential and become an all-star; @ 6mil/yr it'll be a great value.
I lol'd.
Sign and trade him for a lottery pick please. Diaw and Tyrus aren't the answers for our PF problem. We need a REAL power forward who can score 20 points on a nightly basis. No more tweeners who either suck offensively, have zero BBall-IQ or tend to disappear every 2nd game.
I still hope Lexi can turn into this kind of player
ohara831
05-27-2010, 07:57 AM
I really like his game and would like to consider signing him for an extended deal. But I have serious concerns with his falling in love with his non existent jump shot. He is strong inside of 5 feet. But he loves his mid range jumper and that is not his strong suit. If he decides to focus on it again next year, that will only drive his value down. I vote for the QO with intent to S&T. But the deal would have to be very very good. Otherwise, I sign him with the intent to keep him.
truDUKEfan
05-27-2010, 11:26 AM
i dont understand how everyoone says he has a bad jump shot, i mean he has a reliable 15 footer that we need him to have, SHIT at times this year he was the only one who could make a jump shot, PlUS we need all the help we can to clear the lane and his "j" opens the lane enough for wallace and felton to cut to the whole. At least we can say that he would shoot the ball or drive it in unlike our other soft ass PF whod rather pass and give up a open llookk..............................
The problem with that jump shot is he shoots it too often with someone in his face...he is prone to not passing the ball...he is a poor rebounder for his size...questionable BB IQ (Imo)...and very questionable maturity...someone else indicated earlier in the thread that other teams want him...the Nuggets were the only other team that expressed a lot of interest at the trade dead-line so I doubt the "a lot" part...
I'm impressed with his athleticism and that's it...
truDUKEfan
05-27-2010, 04:00 PM
If we can get something of value i would trade him but we gave up a first rounder, flip and law. I would rather test the water with diaw in a trade somthing like mo williams or someone along that line, who can shoot and run an Off. , I just hope to see Redick in a b-cats jersey lol
DY_nasty
05-27-2010, 06:07 PM
i dont understand how everyoone says he has a bad jump shot, i mean he has a reliable 15 footer that we need him to have, SHIT at times this year he was the only one who could make a jump shot, PlUS we need all the help we can to clear the lane and his "j" opens the lane enough for wallace and felton to cut to the whole. At least we can say that he would shoot the ball or drive it in unlike our other soft ass PF whod rather pass and give up a open llookk..............................
Only person with a jumpshot? Thats not saying much on this team. Outside of Jackson, no one is consistent.
And why should a 6'11 freak athlete be shooting 15 footers and long jumpshots like its his bread and butter? Its exactly why people hate Sheed for wasting potential and can't stand Aldridge for walking in his footsteps. The funny thing is, LMA came into the league at the same time and has entirely left Tyrus in the dust. Portland already fleeced someone with Tyrus, we should do the same before its too late.
Package him with someone else and get back into the lottery.
BobCatsFanInTx
05-27-2010, 06:20 PM
I really like his game and would like to consider signing him for an extended deal. But I have serious concerns with his falling in love with his non existent jump shot. He is strong inside of 5 feet. But he loves his mid range jumper and that is not his strong suit. If he decides to focus on it again next year, that will only drive his value down. I vote for the QO with intent to S&T. But the deal would have to be very very good. Otherwise, I sign him with the intent to keep him.Ohara, his jump shot may be an asset as opposed to a weakness next season. If TT spends a lot of time working on his game that may be a part of his game that comes around. That said, I would hope TT works on his post game. I saw enough in the short time we have had TT to believe that he is too good to trade away. I feel the Bulls organization really blew it. TT showed up and played hard for our team and he was one of the few players we had in the postseason who made a difference regularly. Truth be said Larry Brown played him far too few minutes.
On a side note, I think in some ways Larry Brown will hinder our team from being anything more than a low seed each season. I half ass wish we had a coach who utilizes his young players early and does a better job with the bench.
BobCatsFanInTx
05-27-2010, 06:32 PM
The problem with that jump shot is he shoots it too often with someone in his face...he is prone to not passing the ball...he is a poor rebounder for his size...questionable BB IQ (Imo)...and very questionable maturity...someone else indicated earlier in the thread that other teams want him...the Nuggets were the only other team that expressed a lot of interest at the trade dead-line so I doubt the "a lot" part...
I'm impressed with his athleticism and that's it...Mark my words...TT is an All Star in the making. His athleticism alone makes him more of an asset than a liability. TT was totally misused while in Chicago. Since I am also a Denver Nugget fan I would LOVE for this team to screw up and give him to my other team. At least when this ball club is lacking at the 4 my Nuggets will be set and I can root for them. Now don't get me wrong I hope our Bobcats do well next season but the trade value of TT is not that high and any trade the team makes will not improve it in regards to trading TT.
I say we offer a one season deal with the option for a long term after that.
As I said, many can be scouts and claim weakness where TT is concerned but all I know is that when our team was making it to the playoffs on fumes TT was an impressive part of the team. He is in my opinion worth keeping at the least one more season. It is not likely we are a Finals contender next season so keeping TT is not going to hurt us much being on the team. Their is a decent chance that he plays well and fights to get a long term deal. So for me there is no option outside of giving a one year deal with some incentives.
Ghost Kat
05-28-2010, 11:25 AM
On a side note, I think in some ways Larry Brown will hinder our team from being anything more than a low seed each season. I half ass wish we had a coach who utilizes his young players early and does a better job with the bench.
I can't tell you how much I agree with this. I thought LB used the staters way to much. UPS, Tyrus and Henderson are energy players. They are the Bobcats future for the next couple yrs.
Tx...I have not doubt that he might have been misused with the Bulls...but I know he was beat out by Gibson, (a rookie), and the Bulls could not wait to ship him...when a player will not play team ball there will be issues...
The Hawks have an overabundance of athleticism and low BB IQ...it will only take you so far...
...and as for TT being an All-Star...I respect your opinion but I doubt that ever happens...
BobCatsFanInTx
05-28-2010, 02:30 PM
Tx...I have not doubt that he might have been misused with the Bulls...but I know he was beat out by Gibson, (a rookie), and the Bulls could not wait to ship him...when a player will not play team ball there will be issues...
The Hawks have an overabundance of athleticism and low BB IQ...it will only take you so far...
...and as for TT being an All-Star...I respect your opinion but I doubt that ever happens...I get your point but do you really think trading TT will bring us a whole lot better in return? I just don't see his value that high just based on some of your concerns alone. I say it can not hurt to sign TT to a reasonable contract for one season and see what happens from there. As I said, it is not likely our Bobcats are any higher than a fourth seed next season as they are now constructed and I don't see a whole lot we can do to improve beyond that. To me TT was an asset late last season and in the playoffs so why not give him a full season to see what he can add to our team?
As far as Gibson beating TT out, to me that is more a matter of attitude issues as opposed to Tyrus's talent or BB IQ. Larry has been known to increase players BB IQ's. I am all for getting something valuable and better for our team in a trade of TT. Problem is that I don't see it happening.
I have no doubts about TTs athletic talents...just everything else about him...
I doubt we can get anyone "better" for him in a trade that's why I'd rather get pick(s) if possible...
The bigger long-term concern I have is this...if LB returns I expect him to run TTs value down...not up...so I'd rather get something now...
If LB does not return...I'm not sure I'd advocate trading TT...would depend on who we brought in as the new Head Coach...:g:
spectre
05-28-2010, 03:37 PM
If LB does not return...I'm not sure I'd advocate trading TT...would depend on who we brought in as the new Head Coach.
I understand your concern about LB driving down TT's trade value, but I'm more concerned that if we end up getting another idiot coach to replace LB we'll be in the same position the Bulls were in regarding TT his 3 or so years there. He obviously had no respect for their coaches and refused to do other than what he wanted to do on the court.
If LB returns I think TT will respect what he says and will at least attempt to please him.
In regards to TT and that outside shot, I went to NBA Hotspots the other day just to compare this past season to the previous one:
http://www.nba.com/hotspots/
*won't let me post a direct link; you have to choose the team/player/season/split yourselves.
Tho his TS%, etc slightly declined for the 09/10 season compared to the previous year his accuracy from the 10-20 range did improve. He's still weak as hell on the left baseline, but overall there was a rise in numbers (slight lowering underneath...from 0.545 to 0.511).
If he can continually get better I have no problem with him shooting those. Eventually he'll be drawing his defender out of the paint and that only makes things better for the other guys.
DY_nasty
05-28-2010, 04:54 PM
I understand your concern about LB driving down TT's trade value, but I'm more concerned that if we end up getting another idiot coach to replace LB we'll be in the same position the Bulls were in regarding TT his 3 or so years there. He obviously had no respect for their coaches and refused to do other than what he wanted to do on the court.
If LB returns I think TT will respect what he says and will at least attempt to please him.
In regards to TT and that outside shot, I went to NBA Hotspots the other day just to compare this past season to the previous one:
http://www.nba.com/hotspots/
*won't let me post a direct link; you have to choose the team/player/season/split yourselves.
Tho his TS%, etc slightly declined for the 09/10 season compared to the previous year his accuracy from the 10-20 range did improve. He's still weak as hell on the left baseline, but overall there was a rise in numbers (slight lowering underneath...from 0.545 to 0.511).
If he can continually get better I have no problem with him shooting those. Eventually he'll be drawing his defender out of the paint and that only makes things better for the other guys.
Thats nice and all but nobody really likes 6'11 jumpshooters...
I'm in the 'trade him now' camp because I think that once he plays out another season in our snail offense, people will lose interest him. It'd be one thing if he was solid in any one aspect of the game, but he's got to improve everything about his game for him to be a solid player. Letting people actually 'see' if he's worth trading for is the problem. Teams still have interest in him and if we don't take advantage of that early, odds are that we'll just end up BSing and losing out on the opportunity.
Indecision is always the worst decision you can make. Either commit to the guy (which I'm hesitant to do, but could understand if certain other events take place...) or move him before he loses his value.
Weezy21
05-29-2010, 03:12 PM
anyway we could pull off a 3 way trade with denver and miami?
bobcats trade- jax, tyson, tyrus
bobcats get-nene, jr smith, kmart
c-nene/naz/diop
pf-kmart/UPS
sf-wallace/diaw/
sg-JR/henderson
pg-dj/flip
denver trade- nene, JR, kmart, future first
denver get- tyson, beasley, tyrus, jax
c-tyson/birdman
pf-tyrus/beasley
sf-melo/tyrus
sg-jax/afflolo
pg-billups/lawson
miami trade- beasley
miami get- denver future 1st round pick
allows enough cap space to sign 3 big names this offseason
wade/amare/gay
wade/boozer/gay
wade/bosh/gay
spectre...I realize his jump shot (and I appreciate your stats to back it up) has been getting slightly better...but not really my point...I think his minutes began to drop because he started shooting it (the jumper) too quickly, too often, with guys in his face...his team-concept (lack of) and low BB IQ are what bother me about him...he's athletic as heck...but again...that's all that impresses me about him...
Ghost Kat
05-30-2010, 12:43 PM
I have to say a little something about so called BBIQ. I'll assume Diaw has a high BBIQ, but He's lazy as shit. Tyrus, atleast is active. I'll take a dumb athletic big man over a smart lazy player any day. Effort wins games not IQ
I have to say a little something about so called BBIQ. I'll assume Diaw has a high BBIQ, but He's lazy as shit. Tyrus, atleast is active. I'll take a dumb athletic big man over a smart lazy player any day. Effort wins games not IQ
Wizards fans everywhere are pulling their hair out. And Kings fans.
spectre
05-31-2010, 05:49 AM
spectre...I realize his jump shot (and I appreciate your stats to back it up) has been getting slightly better...but not really my point...I think his minutes began to drop because he started shooting it (the jumper) too quickly, too often, with guys in his face...his team-concept (lack of) and low BB IQ are what bother me about him...he's athletic as heck...but again...that's all that impresses me about him...
I wasn't trying to counter you BRNC, just making an observation that was somewhat surprising to me. I had looked thru his advanced stats on bball reference and they were all slightly down from his previous year, so the better shooting came as a mild shock.
If you notice tho none of those zones had a very high volume to prove anything.
I have to say a little something about so called BBIQ. I'll assume Diaw has a high BBIQ, but He's lazy as shit. Tyrus, atleast is active. I'll take a dumb athletic big man over a smart lazy player any day. Effort wins games not IQ
"Controlled" effort wins games.
Honestly I doubt you win many games consistently with either of those types of players, but if you have high BBIQ that puts out the effort then you're on to something.
I have to say a little something about so called BBIQ. I'll assume Diaw has a high BBIQ, but He's lazy as shit. Tyrus, atleast is active. I'll take a dumb athletic big man over a smart lazy player any day. Effort wins games not IQ
Kat...LMAO...I'd rather not have either...
spectre...I did not think you were countering anything I'd said...I was just thanking you for already having posted the stats for what I was going to say...I've never thought (since TT came here) that he was inconsistent or even bad with his jumper but he (on many occasions) does not know when to take the shot and when not...I think it is more of a problem with LB here but he got himself in trouble (with teammates) in Chicago falling in love with it and I could see the same thing happening here...
Ghost Kat
05-31-2010, 05:56 PM
Maybe I should re-read this but BBIQ for example in Ajinca was clearly low since he always looked lost. So what was it Tyrus did or does that makes his BBIQ seem low? He's very active on the offense boards and shot blocking, that takes timing and some BBIQ to be in the right spot...right?
Diaw is the complete opposite. He's not active anywhere besides trying to beat Sean's total body fat record. He gets all this credit for passing the ball but he turns the ball over just as much as Capt. Jack but atleast Jack scores points and plays defense. "Start Tyrus" Snuggies on sell now!!!!!
Maybe I should re-read this but BBIQ for example in Ajinca was clearly low since he always looked lost. So what was it Tyrus did or does that makes his BBIQ seem low? He's very active on the offense boards and shot blocking, that takes timing and some BBIQ to be in the right spot...right?
Yes, but he also takes low-percentage shots with time left on the shot clock, and poor decisions on defense. He's an thletic freak, but like Gerald a few years ago, he can't harness it. If/When he does, he'll be great. Until then, he's a backup.
Ghost Kat
05-31-2010, 06:13 PM
So u would rather have Boris " Let the haters hate" Diaw on the court then Tyrus. Even though u know Boris isn't going to play defense or rebound
So u would rather have Boris " Let the haters hate" Diaw on the court then Tyrus. Even though u know Boris isn't going to play defense or rebound
Boris plays solid defense. He gives effort on defense. He's a SF body, which is why he's not a rebounder. That's why Crash rebounds. It's LB's choice.
And yes, I'd rather have talent over effort, because in the NBA, that's what matters.
Toocool
06-01-2010, 06:47 AM
Boris plays solid defense. He gives effort on defense. He's a SF body, which is why he's not a rebounder. That's why Crash rebounds. It's LB's choice.
And yes, I'd rather have talent over effort, because in the NBA, that's what matters.
I'm against you on this one teej. He does give effort on defense, but doesn't Tyrus as well? If Boris put in as much heart and effort as TT did on that court, we wouldn't be having this discussion. But TT to me seems to leave everything out there, while Boris could probably kick in a few more gears. In my opinion, I rather have the effort player in there. Since they're putting in the hard yards on the court and on practice, and should be rewarded with PT.
spectre
06-01-2010, 08:26 AM
Boris is a smart defender...TT is a "reactionary" defender.
Generally speaking o'course.
Remember, we had a team defense that was at/near the top in a lot of categories. That can't just be blown off. Tho some players probably can be replaced by others, our defense isn't generically a "plug and play" type of thing.
...and I'm using this to bump my team defense thread! :p
Ghost Kat
06-01-2010, 11:58 AM
Ya'll must be "glass half full" types....This Defense you see out of Boris, I just can't see it. I'll use this example, Boris had alot of blocks last year, How many times can you remember Boris jumping and challenging shots? Most of his blocks came from just putting his arms straight up and the Shooter jumping into him trying to dodge Crash or the shot blocking Zombie. He was over powered by bigger guys and smaller guys went riht past him. In or starting lineup including the Zombie, Who is the weak link on defense?
We need to resign Tyrus, Start him and trade Diaw.....I really don't care who they get ILBIT (sometimes)
Again I have to take effort over so called BBIQ
Effort wins you games in High School and in college, but at the very top level, you need more than effort. Gerald Green gave tons of effort, but he was dumb as bricks, which is why he can't get a job. Tyrus gives 110% effort, but he's unable to play within a team defense and team offense. Boris can. While he obviously doesn't have the heart everyone else does, he is talented enough to get away with it. He's like Vince Carter. Carter mails it in, but you'd take him over JJ Redick in the starting lineup every day. Boris rotates very well on defense, and is pretty good at boxing out. He plays above average man-to-man defense, and most importantly, he doesn't do stupid things with the ball in his hands.
Ghost Kat
06-07-2010, 11:54 AM
Effort wins you games in High School and in college, but at the very top level, you need more than effort. Gerald Green gave tons of effort, but he was dumb as bricks, which is why he can't get a job. Tyrus gives 110% effort, but he's unable to play within a team defense and team offense. Boris can. While he obviously doesn't have the heart everyone else does, he is talented enough to get away with it. He's like Vince Carter. Carter mails it in, but you'd take him over JJ Redick in the starting lineup every day. Boris rotates very well on defense, and is pretty good at boxing out. He plays above average man-to-man defense, and most importantly, he doesn't do stupid things with the ball in his hands.
I disagree with all of this
BobCatsFanInTx
06-14-2010, 12:53 PM
Considering what little time we had TT on our team don't you all think it is a bit presumptuous to start giving an actual grade to his play? In Chicago he was never really given a chance to show his stuff. I don't buy that his poor practices were a reason. Most people on Bulls forums actually liked TT and felt that a lot of his problems were the Bulls coaches and management.
The little I saw of TT in the few real minutes he was given he was more of a factor to our Bobcats successes than was Boris. I don't see how signing TT to QO for one season will set our team so far back that we are dreading the decision.
Boris to me seems like a guy who is upset about no longer being on a contender and would rather not put in the effort. He acts like he feels his effort is just wasted so why go all out every game. Maybe I am wrong but I don't feel as though Boris really is a Bobcat at heart.
In the end whatever the case, TT deserves a chance to prove himself. He at least wants to show he can play and that to me is better than a guy in Boris who can play but choses not to give his best effort.
TT played well enough to me in the playoffs with limited minutes that he earned the right to be a Bobcat for a full season.
DY_nasty
06-14-2010, 03:04 PM
He had every opportunity to be successful in Chicago. The only thing that has ever held him back as a player was immaturity and poor work habits.
Plowright
06-14-2010, 07:02 PM
It seems as though we are going to be re-signing Tyrus, LB said in his latest interview on bobcatsbreak.com that he see's TT as our 1st round pick, as well as GH and DB. He also said he is going to teach him and its his fault if he doesnt do well, dont think u would say all that if you werent gonna resign him, unless LB and the front office dont talk but i know him and Rod are texting each other alot according to My sources ;) lol
Ghost Kat
06-14-2010, 07:33 PM
We did give up a future draft pick on Tyrus. I say sign him to the year deal, see what he does next year. Please basketball gods get rid of Boris. I don't care if Tyrus starts or they bring in a vet PF. I wouldn't want Boris to play on the Sting ( Lady Hornets). His Jawanna Man ass shouldn't be allowed on the court if he's just going to give half effort. This I'd rather pass then score nonsense only works for PG's.
The best news i've heard all day is LB planning on modeling Tyrus. Since being signed Tyrus has produced. He's had more of a impact then 2/3 of our big's. And some people still want tolet him go....And get who??
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