TMac?

[Chef]

what do you guys think about acquiring tmac? can he be productive for us at the sg? can he be an outside scorer? would he ruin the locker room? if you do think he would be valuable, how much is he worth to us/what would be the highest you would pay for him?

[vinnie_paz]

i'd take AI over t-mac

[DY_nasty]

Not with jackson on the team... he takes enough bad shots for everyone.

McGrady was my favorite player in the NBA, but he's just not healthy anymore. He's never been a locker room problem or anything either, what went down in Houston is just as much the fault of the Rockets FO as it was his own. Still, I'd rather see him just settle in at Chicago then inevitably bomb here.

[ziggy]

I'd only be interested in him if he would accept the veteran minimum, But no way that happens.

[LiquidWayno]

I knew it was just a matter of time before somebody suggested this. It's crossed my mind, but I don't really see what his role would be here.

[Plowright]

Yer ive been waiting someone to suggest this, and the my opinion is NOOOOOOOOO he has not been good enough/healthy enough for the Rockets, Bulls, Knicks so why would he suddenly be ok to play here??? He would also take Playing time from Henderson and could very possibly be another head case. Get Flip if we are neeeding another SG

[vinnie_paz]

Not with jackson on the team... he takes enough bad shots for everyone.



which nba player doesnt take bad shots ?

[ND22]

For the right price, I'd take him. Not trying to knock off Henderson, but when healthy, T-Mac is better than Henderson will ever be. But he probably wants major burn, and Chicago is where he'll get that.

[Chef]

i've always thought he was a loser. can't win when it matters and is soft. but, he was one of the best players offensively in the era of the me first point guard/ball dominator. i would only take him for the vet min or very close to it.

[SWedd523]

i'd take AI over t-mac
I'd take VD over TMac....... and AI.

[Chef]

real gm forum has multiple posters saying he just signed a 1 year vet min contract with detroit. the speculation then goes to them already having a deal in place to move rip...please not with us if it is true

[ammofan]

real gm forum has multiple posters saying he just signed a 1 year vet min contract with detroit. the speculation then goes to them already having a deal in place to move rip...please not with us if it is true

Hmmmmmm very very interesting. Didnt Jamestheaussie say a few weeks ago that a back up deal would be Damp for Wilcox/Gordon????? HMMMMMMMMM!

[dvdbumpus]

Hmmmmmm very very interesting. Didnt Jamestheaussie say a few weeks ago that a back up deal would be Damp for Wilcox/Gordon????? HMMMMMMMMM!

I like Wilcox, but why would we take Gordon? He's no point guard - I don't want him on the team and I have a soft spot for Uconn players.

[rsxnova]

F that, I want Greg Monroe if we are taking on Gordon.

[Toocool]

How many more fat contracts are we getting? We get rid of Vlad's fatass contract, EO50's fatass contract, only to take on Gordon's fatass contract plus getting a scrubby player in Wilcox? No thanks. I rather cut Damp and resign him then take on Gordon's contract. Plus, we already have a player in Jackson who needs the ball to be effective, Gordon is in the same boat.

Finally, with Tmac, I love the guy. Great player, just had a bad run of injuries. Unforunately, he would want big minutes and alot more money than we have. So it would have to be a no from me.

[DY_nasty]

which nba player doesnt take bad shots ?
How many NBA players take more bad shots than Jackson on a nightly basis?

I like what he does, but with our tempo we really wouldn't even be competitive with two volume scorers on the team.

[Toocool]

How many NBA players take more bad shots than Jackson on a nightly basis and make them with the consistency of Jackson? Besides Mebron, Wade, Kobe, Durant, Melo? No one else.

I like what he does, but with our tempo we really wouldn't even be competitive with Gordon taking up Hendo's minutes and playing crappy defense, not to mentioning needing the ball 90% of the time to be effective, not also mentioning the fact that he has a fatass contract and that if we want that kind of player we can get Flip back for around 1 year 1.5 million?

If talking about Tmac, I like what he does but with Tmac and his injuries, plus wanting huge minutes and the ball 90% of the time, if we want that kind of player should I mention Flip who can come back for 1.5 mill 1 year contract instead of a fat one that Tmac wants?
>

Fixed

10char

[BobCatsFanInTx]

real gm forum has multiple posters saying he just signed a 1 year vet min contract with detroit. the speculation then goes to them already having a deal in place to move rip...please not with us if it is truePeople can hate on Rip all they want but the reality when it comes to the Pistons Joe Dumars has dropped the ball so to speak more than any player from the championship Pistons still on the team.

Rip is a veteran who knows coach Brown better than ANY current Bobcats player does. Rip had his best years playing under coach Brown and if reunited could really excel once again.

I for one will not have "The sky is falling" opinion about getting a player like Rip Hamilton.

There is a whole lot worse players we could wind up with in a trade.

Assuming we don't give up anything seriously substantial ala Crash I most definitely can deal with a trade that brings Rip or Tayshaun Prince.

[Chef]

People can hate on Rip all they want but the reality when it comes to the Pistons is that Joe Dumars has dropped the ball so to speak more than any player from the championship Pistons players still on the team.

Rip is a veteran who knows coach Brown better than ANY current Bobcats player does. Rip had his best years playing under coach Brown and if reunited could really excel once again.

I for one will not have "The sky is falling" opinion about getting a player like Rip Hamilton.

There is a whole lot worse players we could wind up with in a trade.

Assuming we don't give up anything seriously substantial ala Crash I most definitely can deal with a trade that brings Rip or Tayshaun Prince.

i would absolutely insist they take diop and/or jax. if we get rip, there is no room for jax. crash is the sf and rip would be the sg. jax would be the odd man out. and salary-wise his last years of his contract are not going to be pretty.

2 part trade
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=277jp77

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=26g22a4

+ a very protected 1st round pick

[mrtarheel]

T Mac is reported to be taking the vet min to Detriot. If he would come at a price like that he is insurance on Crash being injured along with him wanting to prove he is back is good enough four me.

[teej]

which nba player doesnt take bad shots ?

Boris Diaw.

Unless not shooting a good shot is a bad shot.

[dav7z]

i would absolutely insist they take diop and/or jax. if we get rip, there is no room for jax. crash is the sf and rip would be the sg. jax would be the odd man out. and salary-wise his last years of his contract are not going to be pretty.

2 part trade
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=277jp77

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=26g22a4

+ a very protected 1st round pick

Can't see your trade ?
Damp , Jax , DJ
Rip, Prince, Stuckey, works

Though Prince would have to back up Wallace . Don't know how that would work.

Stuckey with his size and scoring ability under Brown . WOW

[Scottley Crue]

Though I like the talent brought in by these Detroit trades, it really thins out the center position and doesn't address the PG issue. I could live with Stuckey, I guess, if it could be worked out. In my mind, though, Stuckey's not really a point guard. I see him as more of a Flip Murray type---he can handle the ball when needed but is at his best when allowed to concentrate on scoring.

[BlockParty]

Stuckey is the one with some health issues right? Do we really want a potential Hank Gaithers in the rotation?

[Chef]

Can't see your trade ?
Damp , Jax , DJ
Rip, Prince, Stuckey, works

Though Prince would have to back up Wallace . Don't know how that would work.

Stuckey with his size and scoring ability under Brown . WOW

trade 1= diop + jax for prince and maxiell
trade 2 = dust for rip

[dav7z]

Stuckey is the one with some health issues right? Do we really want a potential Hank Gaithers in the rotation?

I don't know of any health issues with him . He played in 73 games last season and averged 16ppg and 5 assist. Though he shot just 40% . He does remind you of a combo guard. But one gets a feeling Brown could make him special.


Stuckey. Livingston,
Rip , Hendo , Carroll
Wallace , Prince ,UPS
TT, Diaw, Najera
Nazz, Diop ,
Would allow Brown lots of flexability. TT , Boris could play a little five. Prince could play a little four.

I could see TT, Prince and Diaw all on the floor at the same time. Prince might be able to play some two all so not sure.

[dav7z]

trade 1= diop + jax for prince and maxiell
trade 2 = dust for rip


I don't really like RIPs contract , Prince is a expiring a very nice contract so i would really want to add him in any type trade we could make with them.

Stuckey is who i think would be a wild card in any trade with them '
Rip is just a slight upgrade over JAX if any upgrade over JAX.

Stuckey , Prince for Damp would be ideal.

[BlockParty]

I don't know of any health issues with him . He played in 73 games last season and averged 16ppg and 5 assist. Though he shot just 40% . He does remind you of a combo guard. But one gets a feeling Brown could make him special.



This is what I was referring to:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSZVxMwwh8Y

[ziggy]

trade 1= diop + jax for prince and maxiell
trade 2 = dust for rip

I am completely comfortable with this. Anyone else on board?

[dav7z]

This is what I was referring to:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSZVxMwwh8Y


Nice find thanks, You right he would have to be cleared of any health issues. Does any one know any thing about his health now.

[dav7z]

I am completely comfortable with this. Anyone else on board?

I wouldn't mind it . But would rather have Stuckey if hes healthy. I just have a feeling he could go a lot for us at point under Brown..

[SWedd523]

If we were forced to trade with Detroit, the only thing I'd approve of would be

Charlotte out: Jack, Diaw, Diop
Detroit out: Hamilton, Prince, Stuckey



I know Jack is better than Rip and I also know he has a shorter/smaller deal. But, getting rid of Diop and Diaw's contracts and getting Prince's expring and Stuckey's expiring would make it worth it.

[x2pacalypse]

when did the transition happen of everybody wanting to get rid of jackson to save cap space and keep diaw on the roster as a backup?

[Toocool]

when did the transition happen of everybody wanting to get rid of jackson to save cap space and keep diaw on the roster as a backup?

People like to get around, and thus opinions change yearly, monthly, weekly, daily, by the hour, by the minute and by the second. It's who we are as people. It's simply up to you whether you jump on the wagon or not :)

[Fred Williamson]

If we were forced to trade with Detroit, the only thing I'd approve of would be

Charlotte out: Jack, Diaw, Diop
Detroit out: Hamilton, Prince, Stuckey



I know Jack is better than Rip and I also know he has a shorter/smaller deal. But, getting rid of Diop and Diaw's contracts and getting Prince's expring and Stuckey's expiring would make it worth it.

even without Stuckey, I'd still do it. But you should at least add Wilcox or Charlie V in this deal.

Rip/Prince/Wilcox for Jax/Diaw/Diop. Where do I sign?

[SWedd523]

even without Stuckey, I'd still do it. But you should at least add Wilcox or Charlie V in this deal.

Rip/Prince/Wilcox for Jax/Diaw/Diop. Where do I sign?

I was honestly thinking about throwing Wilcox in there when I was on the trade machine but ran into two problems.

1) I don't think Dumars would like the deal as currently constructed anyway. He's made it known that he wants out of those contracts but we'd be giving him even longer ones in return so I think he'd say no unless we added some sort of incentive (picks? DJ?) in there to get them to bite in the first place. Is taking back all those long term, albeit smaller, salaries worth getting out of Rip's deal? Is Detroit willing to take back Jack, with all the history he has with them?

2) In my trade, we'd be taking back about $2.5mil more in salary so adding Wilcox without putting somebody else in the deal makes it financially tough for MJ to do because it places us even further over the LT and we still haven't addressed the Center problem.


However, I am very, very excited to see that I have come up with a trade idea that made you happy. I didn't know if that could be done :D

[dav7z]

I was honestly thinking about throwing Wilcox in there when I was on the trade machine but ran into two problems.

1) I don't think Dumars would like the deal as currently constructed anyway. He's made it known that he wants out of those contracts but we'd be giving him even longer ones in return so I think he'd say no unless we added some sort of incentive (picks? DJ?) in there to get them to bite in the first place. Is taking back all those long term, albeit smaller, salaries worth getting out of Rip's deal? Is Detroit willing to take back Jack, with all the history he has with them?

2) In my trade, we'd be taking back about $2.5mil more in salary so adding Wilcox without putting somebody else in the deal makes it financially tough for MJ to do because it places us even further over the LT and we still haven't addressed the Center problem.


However, I am very, very excited to see that I have come up with a trade idea that made you happy. I didn't know if that could be done :D


Thats the reason i added DJ and Damp . But i think we end up in luxery Tax hell with what i preposed. The Prince contract is one i would like to have. Let me revisit this.

Another thing adding Diop might be a mistake . With our roster constructed like it is now.

[SWedd523]

Dav, I agree that it'd be unwise to go into the season with only one Center, I wouldn't even think twice about trading Diop for cap space. We can find plenty of young DLeague Centers who can provide as much as Diop (next to nothing) for a fraction of the cost. Any way we can get out of bad contracts while at the same time getting better/staying the same, I go for it.




I'd throw in Damp and DJ if that meant we got Monroe in return. Definitely. Stuckey is better than any PG we've ever had. Monroe would instantly be our highest upside player (and fill a position of need--Center), AND we get better defensively and more efficient? Sign me up.

[dav7z]

Try this

Rip 12650 two years,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ,,,Nazz =6883 expiring
Prince 11148 expiring,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ,,,,, Diaw = 9000 two years
Stuckey 2767 expiring team option,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Carroll= 4300 three years left
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Augustine=2540 expiring team op
= 26,565,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,22723

We siting at around 75.5 milion. We cut Damp we siting at around 62.5. We take on the 3.8 extra salery we will be siting at around 66 milion . We then could resign Damp at around 3.5 to 4 milion . That would put us at around 70 even. or just below tax hell?

Stuckey, Livingston , Collins
Jax , Rip , Henderson
Wallace, Prince, UPS
TT, Nijira
Damp, Diop.
Though i would prefer to move Jax and keep Nazzs expiring, Jax or Nazz either one would work.

[dav7z]

Dav, I agree that it'd be unwise to go into the season with only one Center, I wouldn't even think twice about trading Diop for cap space. We can find plenty of young DLeague Centers who can provide as much as Diop (next to nothing) for a fraction of the cost. Any way we can get out of bad contracts while at the same time getting better/staying the same, I go for it.




I'd throw in Damp and DJ if that meant we got Monroe in return. Definitely. Stuckey is better than any PG we've ever had. Monroe would instantly be our highest upside player (and fill a position of need--Center), AND we get better defensively and more efficient? Sign me up.

Agreeded in a second . But i just cant see any one taking on Diop except Washington for Arenas . Hell i would even packege Diop with Carroll for Curry in NY...

[Chef]

read through most of the comments on the original diop/jax for prince/maxiell trade.

i agree, stuckey is a much better add in than maxiell. but, no way detroit takes on diop and jax long term money and gives up stuckey. he is too valuable as a stand alone trade chip or perhaps as a future package. his contract is much more favorable than maxiell's. basically the thinking is that detroit desperately wants to get rid of hamilton's awful deal, but no one will go near it. we offer them the DUST for an instant $13 mil savings or a great trade asset to package with either CV or gordon freeing them of those deals. but, they have to take our long term deals of jax (replaced by rip) and our awful deal diop. to do this, they aren't giving us stuckey. maxiell is much more productive than diop (but still not a good deal) but is a 3 year 5mil per contract. this eases detroit's blow of taking diop. they have to take jax (who is a more than productive player on a bad contract for his age) but give up prince who they can't get anyone to take (yet...come feb he turns into an asset). the trade was designed to be something that both teams could agree on, not an obviously beneficial deal for the cats. i also proposed asking for a heavily protected future 1st for taking 2 contracts from them they can't move.

as for the comment about jax vs. rip, independent of contract, it is a wash. jax is more productive at this stage of his career, but rip is an offensive player who doesn't command the ball in his hands to be effective. he uses screens, cuts etc to get open. this creates movement throughout the possession. we have a lot of possessions where there is very little movement, poor spacing and the end result is jax chucking up a bad shot. hopefully, one of the stat-heads on BCP would like to do an analysis of their productions. BUT, i fully admit this is a HUGE risk. Rip is old and in decline, the gamble is can he be productive for 2 of the 3 years he has left at over $12 mil per?

as for the comment of why are we in love with detroit now? i am emphatically not. i like my proposed deals on the "interesting trade ideas" thread with indy, port and NO alot more than this one. this was a response to the...if they sign tmac it means they have a buyer for rip/prince and it could be us...posting.

and if we did this deal, i would absolutely expect diaw to be traded for a starting pg and back up center or a stand alone starting center.

maybe this: http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=26wh9ny

diaw/dj/dom mag (couldn't put him in checker, but ups if port insisted) for andre miller/przybilla

line up to start season:
andre miller/livingston/collins
rip/hendo/carroll
crash/prince
tt/maxiell/prince/najera
prez/nazr/maxiell

if healthy...very dangerous. plus, nazr, prez, prince all off the books at the end of the year. miller, najera off in 2.

[spectre]

read through most of the comments on the original diop/jax for prince/maxiell trade.

i agree, stuckey is a much better add in than maxiell. but, no way detroit takes on diop and jax long term money and gives up stuckey. he is too valuable as a stand alone trade chip or perhaps as a future package. his contract is much more favorable than maxiell's. basically the thinking is that detroit desperately wants to get rid of hamilton's awful deal, but no one will go near it. we offer them the DUST for an instant $13 mil savings or a great trade asset to package with either CV or gordon freeing them of those deals. but, they have to take our long term deals of jax (replaced by rip) and our awful deal diop. to do this, they aren't giving us stuckey. maxiell is much more productive than diop (but still not a good deal) but is a 3 year 5mil per contract. this eases detroit's blow of taking diop. they have to take jax (who is a more than productive player on a bad contract for his age) but give up prince who they can't get anyone to take (yet...come feb he turns into an asset). the trade was designed to be something that both teams could agree on, not an obviously beneficial deal for the cats. i also proposed asking for a heavily protected future 1st for taking 2 contracts from them they can't move.

Agreed. Detroit doesn't want to move Stuckey (at least publicly) nor do they want to move Prince. It's that albatross of a contract they gave Rip that they're desperate to move.

It might be possible to get Gordon out of them...but this is Dumars we're talking about here.

[rsxnova]

Agreed. Detroit doesn't want to move Stuckey (at least publicly) nor do they want to move Prince. It's that albatross of a contract they gave Rip that they're desperate to move.

It might be possible to get Gordon out of them...but this is Dumars we're talking about here.

What i dont understand is how we are supposed to be happy to take rip on. These kind of trades work when we get good young talent back. I see none in the proposed offers.

[teej]

Agreed. Detroit doesn't want to move Stuckey (at least publicly) nor do they want to move Prince. It's that albatross of a contract they gave Rip that they're desperate to move.

It might be possible to get Gordon out of them...but this is Dumars we're talking about here.

They're trying to sell the team, so long term salary of any kind is more than available.

Diop, DJ and Jack for Gordon, Wilcox, Ben Wallace and Stuckey, then Damp for Rip.

Stuckey/Livingston/Collins
Rip/Gordon/Hendo/Carroll
Crash/Gordon/UPS/that McGuire guy, whoever the fuck he is
Diaw/Tyrus/Najera/Wilcox
Ben/Nazzy/Wlicox/Tyrus

Then do something with Diaw

[spectre]

What i dont understand is how we are supposed to be happy to take rip on. These kind of trades work when we get good young talent back. I see none in the proposed offers.

...and that's why they haven't moved him. They needed to do it last offseason, but he's still a Piston.

Teej, what's the breakdown moneywise? I see them getting longterm money back, but the DUST chip might make it palatable.

Dunno why we'd want Rip & Gordon though.

[Chef]

They're trying to sell the team, so long term salary of any kind is more than available.

Diop, DJ and Jack for Gordon, Wilcox, Ben Wallace and Stuckey, then Damp for Rip.

Stuckey/Livingston/Collins
Rip/Gordon/Hendo/Carroll
Crash/Gordon/UPS/that McGuire guy, whoever the fuck he is
Diaw/Tyrus/Najera/Wilcox
Ben/Nazzy/Wlicox/Tyrus

Then do something with Diaw

if your premise is true then no way they even sniff this deal. yes they give up long term money but they take just as much back (sans rip). plus, diop and jax are basically untradeable. at least stuckey and gordon have on court value plus younger ages. this gets them nowhere but $13 mil less and more untradeable long term problems. would you do this if you were a piston's fan. hell no, makes no sense even assuming they are trying to strip the team down to sell.

[teej]

...and that's why they haven't moved him. They needed to do it last offseason, but he's still a Piston.

Teej, what's the breakdown moneywise? I see them getting longterm money back, but the DUST chip might make it palatable.

Dunno why we'd want Rip & Gordon though.

If no one wants Gordon, then it's probably better as Diop, UPS and DJ for Wilcox, Stuckey and Ben, then Damp for Rip.

Gordon's contract is effectively 4 years at 12 per. Rip's is 3 at 12.65. Wilcox and Ben are 3 and 2 million expirings, respectively. Stuckey has 1 year at 2.8, then a QO of 3.8 mil.

Jack is 3 years at about 9.3 per. Diop is basically 3 years, 7 per. DJ is 2 years on the rookie scale, then a 4.4 mil QO.

If there was any way possible to steal Jerebko, I would love that. But I don't see it.

[LiquidWayno]

I would see no point in having Rip and Ben Gordon both....don't understand why Detroit has them both in the first place.

I like that Cleveland is working out T-Mac. That move would make some sense.

[dav7z]

The Pistons are not going to take on any bad contracts. We are only going to make a move if we get better.

Our best trading chips are Damp and Nazz
Thair best chips are Stuckey and Jerebko. Prince
Rips contract is what they want moved

Damp 13. Nazz. 7= 20milion out
Rip 12 ,Stuckey 2.7 Jerebko 700k =16 milion
Question hear is can we move Diaw or Jax for a quility big ?

[Chef]

uh oh

http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/68626/20100810/pistons_working_to_un_jam_log_jam_at_wing/

Having agreed to terms with veteran Tracy McGrady, a source indicates that the Pistons will work to "un-jam the log jam" the team has at the wing.

McGrady reportedly agreed to play behind Tayshaun Prince and Richard Hamilton, but Detroit is expected to shop both long-time Pistons.

A source said Sunday that Detroit won't move Prince unless he requests a trade.

[dav7z]

uh oh

http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/68626/20100810/pistons_working_to_un_jam_log_jam_at_wing/

Having agreed to terms with veteran Tracy McGrady, a source indicates that the Pistons will work to "un-jam the log jam" the team has at the wing.

McGrady reportedly agreed to play behind Tayshaun Prince and Richard Hamilton, but Detroit is expected to shop both long-time Pistons.

A source said Sunday that Detroit won't move Prince unless he requests a trade.

Bet you guys money we looking at taking on Rips contract. A Brown favorite. Im hopeing somthing like this goes down.


DJ could be added to this all so . I read about a month ago the Pistons wanted more of a true point guard.

Nazz and Diaw for Rip , Stuckey , Jerebko.

We could then cut Damp and have around five milion to resign him . And stay out of tax hell.

Pistons do this to rid Rips contract , Signing McGrady proves that.
We do it for debth and two young prospects.

I have a feeling we going to see something close to this trade right hear.


edit

I could see Brown playing a lot of this lineup hear.
Stuckey,Rip Wallace, Jax, T Time

[BlockParty]

Why do we want Rip so bad? His career stats are good, but he's had injuries and if last year is any indication if things will improve or not....I'd rather some other team be stuck with his contract:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3330/career;_ylt=AmJRDB4pRorSxsl_V6BQx0haPKB4

And Stuckey (if he's over his seizures, which generally once you've had one seizure, you are a lot more likely to have more) is actually a worse shooter than Felton.

Stuckey is career 41.7% from field and 25% from 3 pt range
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/4293/career;_ylt=AmJRDB4pRorSxsl_V6BQx0iYPaB4

Raymond is career 41.0% from field and 32% from 3 pt range
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3931/career;_ylt=AmJRDB4pRorSxsl_V6BQx0gcPaB4

[teej]

Why do we want Rip so bad?

Only if they take Diop.

[BlockParty]

Only if they take Diop.

Yeah but it's $17.1 Million more in money over the same period

[teej]

Yeah but it's $17.1 Million more in money over the same period

But infinitely more production.

I don't want a straight up Damp for Rip trade at all. I'd want more depth and young talent. But Rip isn't horrible.

[SWedd523]

I'd gladly do a Jack and Diop for Rip trade.

The only way I trade for Rip without trading Jack is if we have another deal lined up to send the Cap'n out for a big man.

Knowing us, we'd probably do Crash and Jack for Rip and Prince.

[teej]

Knowing us, we'd probably do Crash and Jack for Rip and Prince.

Remember last offseason when everyone was debating whether we should trade Crash straight up for Tayshaun. :facepalm:

[Chef]

so i made a real gm profile to post the damp/diop/jax trade we talked about on this board vs stuckey. they are basically clueless to the fact that rip is not wanted by anyone. they also way overvalue their players, much like every team's fans including us.

and teej, you were pretty on about the long term contracts, but i just don't see how they move rip without taking on an equal amount of long term money spread over smaller deals. same with prince, they aren't getting young talent or picks for prince.

my favorite, was them accepting deal 1: rip for damp but rejecting deal 2: the actual deal.
rip for dust straight up..hmm let me think

http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=1044959&sid=1f1a87ada01890f5b8ae4db2dbe36a2d

[dav7z]

Why do we want Rip so bad? His career stats are good, but he's had injuries and if last year is any indication if things will improve or not....I'd rather some other team be stuck with his contract:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3330/career;_ylt=AmJRDB4pRorSxsl_V6BQx0haPKB4

And Stuckey (if he's over his seizures, which generally once you've had one seizure, you are a lot more likely to have more) is actually a worse shooter than Felton.

Stuckey is career 41.7% from field and 25% from 3 pt range
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/4293/career;_ylt=AmJRDB4pRorSxsl_V6BQx0iYPaB4

Raymond is career 41.0% from field and 32% from 3 pt range
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3931/career;_ylt=AmJRDB4pRorSxsl_V6BQx0gcPaB4

Im not saying we want Rip so bad . But i bet you Brown wants him.

Stuckey is the combo type guard Brown has wet dreams about. He averaged 16ppg and 5 assist with less coaching. Health could be a issue hear but hes on a team option.
Jerebko is a physical rebounding fool with some scoreing skills.
Rip plays tough physical defence and knocks down open shots on a consistant clip. At his age a solid sixth man backing up Jax and Wallace. A VERY NICE INSURANCE POLICY, in case of injery to Wallace or JAX. A scoring punch off the beanch like we have never had.


Nazz is a expiring with decent talent . But i don't see us keeping him any longer than one more year. Borris most of Bobcatsplanet wants to get rid of for nothing.

Doing this move allows us to cut Damp and put us about five milion under the tax.
We could then resign Damp at about 5 milion and stay solid at the five.


This team would be much deeper and better making this trade . Please explain how we lose in a deal like this.

How can you compare Felton to Stuckey now Felton is gone. Compare Stuckey to Livingston or DJ ??

[Chef]

Please explain how we lose in a deal like this.

How can you compare Felton to Stuckey now Felton is gone. Compare Stuckey to Livingston or DJ ??

rip continues to decline now we have diop and rip on the books for the next 3 years at 18 million each year!!!

[BRNC]

The once place we have strength (even backups) is on the wings...I would not entertain Rip or Prince...we need a PG without taking on more long term debt...

[dav7z]

rip continues to decline now we have diop and rip on the books for the next 3 years at 18 million each year!!!

I understand your concern hear . But Rip still has enough to be a great back up [scoring punch ] off the beanch.

Stuckey and JEREBKO, both have tons of upside and makes us lots younger.

Both averaged nice numbers last season.

Is thease two good young contracts worth taking on RIP. I think they are . I all so think RIP would be very productive as a sixth man under Brown.

This would be a much inproved team over what we have now . That can't really be disputed.

[dav7z]

The once place we have strength (even backups) is on the wings...I would not entertain Rip or Prince...we need a PG without taking on more long term debt...

Stuckey is who im pushing to be our starting point hear....... Hes the main reason i like this trade.

[Chef]

I understand your concern hear . But Rip still has enough to be a great back up [scoring punch ] off the beanch.

Stuckey and JEREBKO, both have tons of upside and makes us lots younger.

Both averaged nice numbers last season.

Is thease two good young contracts worth taking on RIP. I think they are . I all so think RIP would be very productive as a sixth man under Brown.

This would be a much inproved team over what we have now . That can't really be disputed.

just arguing for the obvious other side. for the record, i think rip still has 2 good years, but has to be the starter (this was problem in detroit), which gives us problems with him and jax. to get jerebko and stuckey will take DUST. i don't think boris and naz will cut it.

if your deal above works i would take it then look to move damp + jax for a pg and center. either way i think if we have rip we can't have jax.

[dav7z]

just arguing for the obvious other side. for the record, i think rip still has 2 good years, but has to be the starter (this was problem in detroit), which gives us problems with him and jax. to get jerebko and stuckey will take DUST. i don't think boris and naz will cut it.

if your deal above works i would take it then look to move damp + jax for a pg and center. either way i think if we have rip we can't have jax. I think they would take Diaw and NAZZs expiring. But you right about Rip and JAX . Im not sure how that would work out. With Stuckey DJ and Livingston point should be solid . If we resigned Damp we should be solid thair all so with Damp , Jerebko , Diop. One year under Damp Jerebko could be a beast.

[BlockParty]

Doing this move allows us to cut Damp and put us about five milion under the tax.
We could then resign Damp at about 5 milion and stay solid at the five.

This team would be much deeper and better making this trade . Please explain how we lose in a deal like this.

How can you compare Felton to Stuckey now Felton is gone. Compare Stuckey to Livingston or DJ ??

We can cut Damp now and resign him and be under the Tax number, we don't need Detroit's help with that, or any other team.

We lose on a deal like this if Stuckey or Rip have a recurring injury or health issues. If Stuckey has a seizure in a game, on the break as quick as he is...that's dead weight and likely career ending head injury when he rams into the scorer's table, a chair, Jack Nicholson's knee, etc.

Why do I compare Felton to Stuckey? What most fans were most frustrated with Felton was his shooting percentage (aided by poor shot selection at times)....and Stuckey's is worse from the perimeter by 7% points! It's not Stuckey's contract that I'm scared of, it's his health and the albatross of Rip's contract that comes along with it.

Everyone in the NBA knows Detroit is between a rock and a hard spot now that TMac has signed, just like Golden State was last year when Jax demanded a trade and Nellie wouldn't back down. Think about Golden State, we got Jax the entire season, they got Radmanovic and Bell's limp wrist...That was a lopsided deal in our favor.

We need a lot better deal in return for taking on Rip's contract (and not just losing Diop), it's a fire sale for Detroit, we shouldn't do the deal unless it's lopsided in our favor.

[BRNC]

I'm not convinced we make (even) a lateral move at PG with this Detroit deal...I th9ink we'll have better options without bringing in more long-term (dead-weight) contracts...I just don't see upside with this deal...

[LiquidWayno]

I actually have always liked Will Bynum, but maybe I just have that time he dropped like 26 pts on us in the 4th quarter stuck in my head.

[LiquidWayno]

Here's a trade I would like with Detroit - DUST for Stuckey, Gordon & Jererbko. It actually works in the trade machine, though I can't think of a lot of reasons the Pistons would want to lose Jonas. Would help with our scoring problems, would just need to look for a cheap center somewhere.

[LiquidWayno]

Obviously, bringing in Hamilton or Gordon would affect Hendo's minutes, but either could solve our scoring issues. I feel like Rip would play well off of Diaw but would be must effective when playing with a legit PG.

[LiquidWayno]

Nazr was pretty well liked in Detroit too I believe. Rip and Larry Brown are pretty close I believe? I would definitely go for the Stuckey/Rip/Jonas trade for Diaw and Nazr, but we would HAVE to find a big immediately after....or waive and resign Dampier on the cheap.

[Toocool]

Nazr was pretty well liked in Detroit too I believe. Rip and Larry Brown are pretty close I believe? I would definitely go for the Stuckey/Rip/Jonas trade for Diaw and Nazr, but we would HAVE to find a big immediately after....or waive and resign Dampier on the cheap.

I think it's more that we'll waive+resign. Unless we somehow get an awesome trade going involving great key players, we won't be paying LT this season.

[dav7z]

Here's a trade I would like with Detroit - DUST for Stuckey, Gordon & Jererbko. It actually works in the trade machine, though I can't think of a lot of reasons the Pistons would want to lose Jonas. Would help with our scoring problems, would just need to look for a cheap center somewhere.

I don't think we need Dust for either deal. Gordon or Rip though i think Brown would like Rip better . All so his contract doesn't increase. That makes it better to add or resign another player.

Damp is going to be cut you guys need to get used to that one . Its no way we need to go into luxery tax without a big time star.

We siting at around 76 milion right now . When season starts we going to be at 70 or below. So cuting and resigning Damp is a nice option thair.

So if we cut Damp ,How much better do you guys think we could get out of Nazz and Diaw . Its either we make a move similar to this [ Taking on some salery] or stand pat .If this team stands as constructed then sales is going to drop. MJ just turned the coorner last season . Its no way he don't make a move to keep sales up.

To sum this whole thing up we have two choices . Make a move like this or blow up the whole team and start over.

[BRNC]

dav...I agree we need to make a move...just not like this...with Dust we have (finally) some flexibility...also some contracts coming off in the next couple of years...I think we can make a move without putting ourselves back in "cap hell" and this Detroit deal would do that...put us in "cap hell"...

I got the distinct impression that's why MJ bailed on the Raptors deal...I stay of the opinion we'll get a decent PG that is at least lateral to Ray without going into "cap hell"...but it will take patience to do that...

[BRNC]

duplicate post...trouble with my connection...

[dav7z]

dav...I agree we need to make a move...just not like this...with Dust we have (finally) some flexibility...also some contracts coming off in the next couple of years...I think we can make a move without putting ourselves back in "cap hell" and this Detroit deal would do that...put us in "cap hell"...

I got the distinct impression that's why MJ bailed on the Raptors deal...I stay of the opinion we'll get a decent PG that is at least lateral to Ray without going into "cap hell"...but it will take patience to do that...

Agreeded that could be another way to go [might even be a better option] But we still looking at our trade piece is Diaw and or Nazz

Its only about three or four options i can see go down hear '
1# Diaw for Calderon
2# Diaw for Flynn and Beasley with rumors Flynn or Beasley is not coveted much
3# Diaw and Nazz for OK50 and Collison , Hear we take on salery again and i don't think NO does it ?

We can't use DUST hear because if we do we stuck in tax hell for sure.

[teej]

2# Diaw for Flynn and Beasley with rumors Flynn or Beasley is not coveted much
3# Diaw and Nazz for OK50 and Collison , Hear we take on salery again and i don't think NO does it ?

Either one. Yes pleaseeeeeeeeeeee.

[dav7z]

Either one. Yes pleaseeeeeeeeeeee.

I must have over valued Collison in the Bobcats eyes Diaw and NAZZ wasn't worth OK50 and Collison .

Im beginning to think we going to play with what we got . [screw winning ] if it means thking on a few more dollars.


What we have now might be a finished product for the year. We just got fucked out of two starters this season.

[rsxnova]

Agreeded that could be another way to go [might even be a better option] But we still looking at our trade piece is Diaw and or Nazz

Its only about three or four options i can see go down hear '
1# Diaw for Calderon
2# Diaw for Flynn and Beasley with rumors Flynn or Beasley is not coveted much
3# Diaw and Nazz for OK50 and Collison , Hear we take on salery again and i don't think NO does it ?

We can't use DUST hear because if we do we stuck in tax hell for sure.

Yes please. I would even throw in a second.

[LiquidWayno]

Flynn/Beasley for Diaw would be incredible...why would we not do that?

[teej]

Flynn/Beasley for Diaw would be incredible...why would we not do that?

There's no reason not to.

LB wouldn't like it, but idc.

Send DJ to Minny too, make it semi-even.