View Full Version : A truly awful article
Plowright
08-10-2010, 01:58 PM
http://www.hoopsvibe.com/features/flagrant-foul/105229-the-charlotte-bobcats-could-be-stuck-in-nba-hell-
I thought this article was of such a poor standard it made me laugh! Not only is the content all B*ll Sh*t but but the writing is awful, phrases like "The team will suck even more with him as the starter" suck even more???? i mean with phrasing like that by a sports writer he doesnt deserve to have an opinion, the writing here on BobcatsPlanet.com is about 10 x better.
seriously this guy is awful
BlockParty
08-10-2010, 02:10 PM
http://www.hoopsvibe.com/features/flagrant-foul/105229-the-charlotte-bobcats-could-be-stuck-in-nba-hell-
I thought this article was of such a poor standard it made me laugh! Not only is the content all B*ll Sh*t but but the writing is awful, phrases like "The team will suck even more with him as the starter" suck even more???? i mean with phrasing like that by a sports writer he doesnt deserve to have an opinion, the writing here on BobcatsPlanet.com is about 10 x better.
seriously this guy is awful
My dog has more Bobcats knowledge then that twit, then again, my dog is named Rufus.
LiquidWayno
08-10-2010, 04:59 PM
"Every team needs a superstar. To win a playoff series in this league, you need at least one superstar and one All Star at 2 different positions."
Again, another writer who so freely throws around the superstar phrase. How many actual superstars are there in this league again?
How many actual superstars are there in this league again?
Kobe, Durant, Wade, Dirk, and CP3/D-Will. In that order.
Rondo, Duncan, Nashty, D12, Joe Johnson, Amar'e, LeBron, and Brandon Roy are the second tier.
Go ahead, flame me.
BlockParty
08-10-2010, 08:11 PM
Kobe, Durant, Wade, Dirk, and CP3/D-Will. In that order.
Rondo, Duncan, Nashty, D12, Joe Johnson, Amar'e, LeBron, and Brandon Roy are the second tier.
Go ahead, flame me.
C'mon Teej!!!
It's a good list, :g:but how do you leave Dominic McGuire off of it???
how do you leave Dominic McGuire off of it???
Who the fuck is that?
110oldeast
08-10-2010, 08:20 PM
Lebron is 2nd tier?
Kobe, Durant, Wade, Dirk, and CP3/D-Will. In that order.
Rondo, Duncan, Nashty, D12, Joe Johnson, Amar'e, LeBron, and Brandon Roy are the second tier.
Go ahead, flame me.
Lebron is 2nd tier?
To be first tier (in my mind) you have to be able to will your team to win.
I almost put Dirk on the 2nd tier, but he's just so good.
LeBron hasn't done anything outside his athleticism.
LiquidWayno
08-10-2010, 09:29 PM
I hate LeBron (and Kobe, for that matter), but I would place them both in the superstar tier. Just those two, Wade & Durrant.
dnbman
08-10-2010, 10:27 PM
LeBron hasn't done anything outside his athleticism.
I just made a post about how he's a clown, but he is definitely first tier. This past playoffs was regrettable, but he's had some insane moments, like the classic Detroit game, where he singled handedly beat a team in the playoffs. If Dirk and CP3 are up there, Lebron is unquestionably up there.
SWedd523
08-10-2010, 11:19 PM
LeBron--Tier 1*
Wade--Tier 1
Kobe--Tier 1
Durant--Tier 2 (doesn't qualify for Tier 1 just yet)
CP3--Tier 2
Deron--Tier 2
BRoy--Tier 2
Dirk--Tier 2
Timmy D--Tier 2
Dwight--Tier 2
Rondo-Tier 3
Nash--Tier 3
Amar'e--Tier 3
Joe Johnson--Tier 3
(all tiers in those orders, best player at the top)
*Has done a ton other than be athletic. Career 28/7/7 is fantastic. Those numbers jump to 29/8/7 in the playoffs. He has taken some shitty Cavs teams deep into the playoffs multiple times. He's also the best player in the league. There's no way he's not Tier 1.
Toocool
08-10-2010, 11:29 PM
I would shift Rondo to the 2nd tier, maybe just maybe Bosh might fit in the 3rd tier. Duncan would be 3rd tier, although his age is finally catching up to Mr. Fundamentals.
In terms of that article, that was just a fat man spouting crap. Haters gonna hate. More haters we have, better we'll be :D
ziggy
08-11-2010, 06:35 AM
LeBron--Tier 1*
Wade--Tier 1
Kobe--Tier 1
Durant--Tier 2 (doesn't qualify for Tier 1 just yet)
CP3--Tier 2
Deron--Tier 2
BRoy--Tier 2
Dirk--Tier 2
Timmy D--Tier 2
Dwight--Tier 2
Rondo-Tier 3
Nash--Tier 3
Amar'e--Tier 3
Joe Johnson--Tier 3
(all tiers in those orders, best player at the top)
*Has done a ton other than be athletic. Career 28/7/7 is fantastic. Those numbers jump to 29/8/7 in the playoffs. He has taken some shitty Cavs teams deep into the playoffs multiple times. He's also the best player in the league. There's no way he's not Tier 1.
Swedd is pretty close, I'd move Durant up to tier 1 and slide Roy down to tier 3
Lebron is taking a beating this summer, but he is still clearly one of the best 2 players in this league.
BlockParty
08-11-2010, 08:35 AM
Once again, I'm glad we didn't have any picks this year (not that Ajinca turned out to anything worthy of the dollar menu at McDonalds), but looking at SWedd's list we could have drafted 4 of those guys and still had 2 of them on the roster.
Deron or CP3 instead of Ray Ray and the Stay Puff Marshmellow May
and
Brandon Roy or Rondo instead of the 2-time World Champion Adam Morrison
Yeah I know, a lot of PG's, but you know the Bobcats don't mind swinging them into the combo guard role. The best combo would probably be CP3 and Roy....but any combo would work except CP3 and Rondo.
Which makes the T-Time trade and resigning that much more important, at least we know he can be successful and productive in the NBA and still have some upside (no knock on Ray for that has he will be a 14 year veteran at some point).
Fred Williamson
08-11-2010, 11:02 AM
Why are you guys mad? This guy only tells the truth and I agree with everything wrote in the article
- Crash and Jax aren't franchise players
- We don't have the assets to acquire Paul or Anthony besides Jax and Crash and some expirings.
- Tyrus is Stromie Swift 2.0 and we overpaid him.
Is there anything to disagree with?
Plowright
08-11-2010, 11:56 AM
Why are you guys mad? This guy only tells the truth and I agree with everything wrote in the article
- Crash and Jax aren't franchise players
- We don't have the assets to acquire Paul or Anthony besides Jax and Crash and some expirings.
- Tyrus is Stromie Swift 2.0 and we overpaid him.
Is there anything to disagree with?
I disagree that we need a superstar to become successfull. Im not even thinking about winning championships at the moment, and no bobcat fan should be as we are so far off. Right now we are trying to get a little bit better every year. Crash & Jax are better franchise players than we have ever had e.g. J Rich. We obv dont have the assets to get cp3 or melo or we would have done it already!!! But think about it... what teams do have the assets. He does say that we could get them if we traded gw and jax.
Finally, how can you say Tyrus is overpaid when... He has not even played yet this year!!!
LeBron--Tier 1*
Wade--Tier 1
Kobe--Tier 1
Durant--Tier 2 (doesn't qualify for Tier 1 just yet)
CP3--Tier 2
Deron--Tier 2
BRoy--Tier 2
Dirk--Tier 2
Timmy D--Tier 2
Dwight--Tier 2
Rondo-Tier 3
Nash--Tier 3
Amar'e--Tier 3
Joe Johnson--Tier 3
(all tiers in those orders, best player at the top)
*Has done a ton other than be athletic. Career 28/7/7 is fantastic. Those numbers jump to 29/8/7 in the playoffs. He has taken some shitty Cavs teams deep into the playoffs multiple times. He's also the best player in the league. There's no way he's not Tier 1.
I'm defining a tier 1 player as someone I'd build a team around with the expectation of winning a ring or four. Kobe and Wade have done so, Dirk should've done so if Wade hadn't received help from Dick Bavetta, Durant will, and I have faith either D-Will or CP3 (or both) will.
LeBron has shown that while he can take over a game, he can't lead a team to where it needs to be. He had plenty of talent, but wasn't a leader.
To me, second tier is a guy, who with a couple other all-stars, could win a ring. Duncan is here right now, although he's fading quickly. Rondo almost did that this year, Roy has the ability, Nash, Amar'e and Dwight have come close, and Joe Johnson may at some point get there, just not in Atlanta. LeBron has shown he needs help to get a ring. That's why I put him here.
SWedd523
08-11-2010, 01:19 PM
Anytime you make a false statement in an article, your credibility is shot. Tyrus' deal is frontloaded, not backloaded like the guy claims. Also, a large portion of that deal comes in the first year so his cap hit is only something like $7mil/year over the course of the deal--a very good value as far as I'm concerned. A simple Google search would have easily found that.
I refuse to give any merit to a writer who doesn't fact check.
spectre
08-11-2010, 01:29 PM
Is it frontloaded or backloaded? I thought it was a conventional deal with the bonus spread out over the length of the contract...which is the way it appears Tam has it:
http://www.bobcatsplanet.com/vb/showthread.php?t=11161
I agree though...if someone is going to write an article fact checking the simpler things should be done if they want to maintain credibility.
Plowright
08-11-2010, 01:35 PM
Yer thats what ive been saying, this writer is just abismal, how he got a column i just dont know :facepalm:
how he got a column i just dont know :facepalm:
I have a column. It (obviously) doesn't take much.
Plowright
08-11-2010, 01:40 PM
Yer your right any old smuck can get a column :p
SWedd523
08-11-2010, 01:47 PM
It's a conventional (declining) deal per se, it's a 5 year $28mil deal with a $12mil signing bonus that pushes the deal to $40mil. The beautiful thing is that the bonus is ALSO dispersed over the life of the deal. So he's making more money that first year, but it declines at a pretty good clip.
spectre
08-11-2010, 02:01 PM
It's a conventional (declining) deal per se, it's a 5 year $28mil deal with a $12mil signing bonus that pushes the deal to $40mil. The beautiful thing is that the bonus is ALSO dispersed over the life of the deal. So he's making more money that first year, but it declines at a pretty good clip.
Tam has it increasing...at least overall with the bonus.
Tam has it increasing...at least overall with the bonus.
It was originally reported as front loaded by a NJ paper, then I've seen it everywhere else as backloaded. But no one knows for sure.
Toocool
08-11-2010, 02:06 PM
It would have to be normal. I don't see how we could have signed Dominic McGuire, Livingston and not gone over the cap. If TT's salary was frontloaded, we wouldn't have been able to sign those guys since we would go over LT. We only have gone over LT now because of Carroll and Najera, but that deal wouldn't have been happening while we were resigning TT.
SWedd523
08-11-2010, 03:11 PM
It would have to be normal. I don't see how we could have signed Dominic McGuire, Livingston and not gone over the cap. If TT's salary was frontloaded, we wouldn't have been able to sign those guys since we would go over LT. We only have gone over LT now because of Carroll and Najera, but that deal wouldn't have been happening while we were resigning TT.
You're not getting the point. It's not $12mil his first year. It's basically two different contracts: 5 year/$12mil and 5 year/$28mil. On a flat rate that'd exactly $8mil a year with it swinging a little more either way depending on if it de/increases.
Original reports were a frontloaded deal to keep New Jersey at bay since they offered him a frontloaded sheet to scare us off. That's the story I'm sticking to unless I get definitive proof of the opposite. Either way, an average of $8mil a year for Tyrus is great value considering the amount of money Diaw and most of the big men in the league are getting paid.
spectre
08-11-2010, 03:25 PM
You're not getting the point. It's not $12mil his first year. It's basically two different contracts: 5 year/$12mil and 5 year/$28mil. On a flat rate that'd exactly $8mil a year with it swinging a little more either way depending on if it de/increases.
Original reports were a frontloaded deal to keep New Jersey at bay since they offered him a frontloaded sheet to scare us off. That's the story I'm sticking to unless I get definitive proof of the opposite. Either way, an average of $8mil a year for Tyrus is great value considering the amount of money Diaw and most of the big men in the league are getting paid.
I don't know if they actually offered a contract, but the original report I read out of NJ said that we didn't match an offer but we matched the signing bonus.
http://www.nj.com/nets/index.ssf/2010/07/nets_pass_on_tyrus_thomas_who.html
This was the article. It says "They backed out this morning – presumably – because it took this long to convince Avery Johnson that it would be a foolhardy investment".
That article spurred everyone going to Coon's FAQ and realizing that the bonuses aren't paid up front like this said, but spread out over the length of the contract.
That article spurred everyone going to Coon's FAQ and realizing that the bonuses aren't paid up front like this said, but spread out over the length of the contract.
The bonus is actually paid up front, but are used throughout the contract for cap purposes. So Tyrus will likely end up making well over 15 mil this year.
spectre
08-11-2010, 04:13 PM
The bonus is actually paid up front, but are used throughout the contract for cap purposes. So Tyrus will likely end up making well over 15 mil this year.
Not according to Larry Coon:
65. How about signing bonuses? Are they allowed? How do they count against the cap? (http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#Q65)
Teams are allowed to offer the players they sign a bonus worth as much as 20% of the total compensation (17.5% in offer sheets to restricted free agents signed after March 1, 2006). A signing bonus is spread among the guaranteed seasons in the contract (but not to option years or years following an ETO), in proportion to the percentage of salary in each of those seasons that is guaranteed*.
* The calculation for allocating the signing bonus to the years of the contract is somewhat confusing. It is not proportionate to the salary, but rather to how much of the salary is guaranteed. If there are five years in the contract, there is no option year or ETO, and each year of the contract is 100% guaranteed, then 20% of the signing bonus is allocated equally to each season of the contract, even though the salary increases throughout the contract.
He's stating it like there isn't an option to pay it all in one lump sum.
This is under both "are they allowed" and "how do they count against the cap".
If you have something different feel free to throw it out there.
Coon has also added some stuff on this:
Calculating NBA Contracts With Signing Bonuses (http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/SigningBonus.pdf)
...and in that last link:
"The signing bonus is paid up front". :facepalm:
Why in the hell couldn't I see that first?
...and to be sure we had this mapped out earlier. If Tam doesn't have it in his salary thread hopefully he'll add that in.
SWedd523
08-11-2010, 04:14 PM
The bonus is actually paid up front, but are used throughout the contract for cap purposes. So Tyrus will likely end up making well over 15 mil this year.
Yeah, he's GETTING the money this year, but it isn't COUNTING towards the cap. If it's 15mil his first year, the rest is 4 years at 25 mil. How is that not good value?
spectre
08-11-2010, 04:19 PM
Yeah, he's GETTING the money this year, but it isn't COUNTING towards the cap. If it's 15mil his first year, the rest is 4 years at 25 mil. How is that not good value?
Y'all are right...edited it in my last post.
I found the line in a PDF Coon had added in the FAQ.
He's probably already gotten the 12 mil. So it's just 5/28 from here on out.
SWedd523
08-11-2010, 04:42 PM
Y'all are right...edited it in my last post.
I found the line in a PDF Coon had added in the FAQ.
One thing is for sure, it's one confusing damn contract. :p
Really though (and I hate to repeat myself) for salary cap purposes, his deal isn't bad at all. It's a solid deal at a lower rate than what Diaw was getting and it looks even better when looking at the deals some other guys received. Haywood? Amir?....................................... Diop.....
Really though (and I hate to repeat myself) for salary cap purposes, his deal isn't bad at all. It's a solid deal at a lower rate than what Diaw was getting and it looks even better when looking at the deals some other guys received. Haywood? Amir?....................................... Diop.....
Haywood was a recipient of the Mark Cuban Big Man Fund.
spectre
08-11-2010, 06:50 PM
Anyone know off the top of your head if he's PPP or anything? (edit...trade machine says only BYC)
Say we wanted to move him as soon as he was available...since the 12 million has already been paid we'd be dealing a 4/25 contract right? What would happen with the money spread out due to hit our cap because of the bonus in the coming years? Would we be on the hook for that still or would it go away?
SWedd523
08-11-2010, 07:06 PM
Anyone know off the top of your head if he's PPP or anything? (edit...trade machine says only BYC)
Say we wanted to move him as soon as he was available...since the 12 million has already been paid we'd be dealing a 4/25 contract right? What would happen with the money spread out due to hit our cap because of the bonus in the coming years? Would we be on the hook for that still or would it go away?
From as much as I can gather, I think we're only on the hook for the signing bonus. For the rest of the contracts purpose (including trades), it's a 5 year/ $28mil deal.
So say it's a flat rate contract. He signed with us for $28mil over the course of 5 years. If we trade him, it's a $5.6mil outgoing contract PLUS the 2.4 from the bonus since it's dispersed as well. His cap hit will say $8mil, but his new team would only have to pay the $5.6 since we already covered part of it with his bonus.
So say it's a flat rate contract. He signed with us for $28mil over the course of 5 years. If we trade him, it's a $5.6mil outgoing contract PLUS the 2.4 from the bonus since it's dispersed as well. His cap hit will say $8mil, but his new team would only have to pay the $5.6 since we already covered part of it with his bonus.
A useful contract for a team like Detroit, NoLa or the like.
rsxnova
08-11-2010, 11:50 PM
Haywood was a recipient of the Mark Cuban Big Man Fund.
So where do we line up to trade for him?:biggrin:
So where do we line up to trade for him?:biggrin:
We have to wait a year, it's one overpaid stiff per year.
Along with a dry anal raping from Mark's assistant.
Toocool
08-12-2010, 03:36 AM
I stand corrected with my previous post. Thanks for clearing it up...these cap situations are really confusing :facepalm:
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