Goodbye Collison and CP3

[teej]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5455472

Four NBA teams are on the verge of a five-player trade, two league sources said.
In the proposed deal, the Houston Rockets (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=hou)will send Trevor Ariza (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2426) to the New Orleans Hornets (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=nor). The Hornets will send Darren Collison (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3973) and James Posey (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=671) to the Indiana Pacers (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=ind). The Pacers will send Troy Murphy (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1013) to the New Jersey Nets (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=njn). And the Nets will send Courtney Lee (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3445) to the Rockets.
According to the sources the Rockets, Hornets, Pacers and Nets are in advanced discussions on the deal and the principals are set. The teams were ironing out details including Posey's trade kicker and possible cash payments.

[spectre]

http://twitter.com/chadfordinsider/status/20901006642


Breaking: Hornets, Rockets, Pacers & Nets working on 4 team deal. Ariza to NO. C. Lee to HOU. Collison & Posey to IND. Murphy to NJ.I can't access Twitter so I can't verify that this is accurate. Can someone confirm?

If I'm reading this right Indiana is on the verge of getting Collison/Posey for Murphy?

NJ is Courtney Lee (+ space) for Murphy.

Houston is Ariza for Courtney Lee

NOLA is Posey/Collison for Ariza

[spectre]

Hornets, Rockets, Pacers, Nets working on four team deal (http://nbaprimetime.com/hornets-rockets-pacers-nets-working-on-four-team-deal/3772/)


ESPN’s Chad Ford is reporting that the Hornets, Rockets, Pacers, and Nets are working on a four team deal.

New Jersey Nets get Troy Murphy. Lose Courtney Lee
Houston Rockets get Courney Lee. Lose Trevor Ariza.
Indiana Pacers get Darren Collison and James Posey. Lose Troy Murphy.
New Orleans Hornets get Trevor Ariza. Lose Darren Collison and James Posey.

[SWedd523]

Indiana makes out like bandits. New Jersey gets a great deal. Houston gets crapped on. New Orleans does too.

[teej]

Nola get's raped, Indy makes out like bandits.

[SWedd523]

Nola get's raped, Indy makes out like bandits.

Copy cat. :g:

[teej]

Copy cat. :g:

I had it written before you I just had to move spectre's post. So you're the copy cat. :paddle:

[Plowright]

Why are they giving away Collinson for so little!?!?!?

[spectre]

If NOLA is going to do crap like that why in the hell didn't we at least push something with them?

I can't see Ariza being the move that keeps Paul...so when he bolts in 2 years they'll have no 2nd option at the PG spot.

There's always the draft I guess.

[teej]

Why are they giving away Collinson for so little!?!?!?

I don't get it. Ariza has a longer contract than Posey.

I refuse to say Houston loses because Morey is a genius, but it sure seems unfair.

[CatNation]

dont see why the Nets want or need Murphy. Unless they wanna swing us Murphy/Harris or Harris/Favors :biggrin:

[Plowright]

Maybe cp3 was just desperate for someone athletic to throw oops to in Ariza??? lol

[Chef]

what a shit trade. NO takes on long term money??? we could have gotten collison, west, posey for damp + dj/hendo easily.

[CatNation]

what a shit trade. NO takes on long term money??? we could have gotten collison, west, posey for damp + dj/hendo easily.

theyre trying to make CP3 happy so they got a 18ppg scorer I guess.

[Toocool]

18 ppg? Are you kidding? He's like a 14 ppg scorer, hardly able to take over a game. And to think Rockets gave up Artest for him.

For the deal, Wow.
Don't know why Net's want Murphy when they've got Lopez, and Shinn is desperate to get rid of salary to sell his team by shipping away Posey and giving up Collison.

It's a good day for Indiana, who've probably just jumped a mile ahead without an idiot in TJ Ford running point as much.

[teej]

It's a good day for Indiana, who've probably just jumped a mile ahead without an idiot in TJ Ford running point as much.

Diop for Ford.

Do it now.

[Toocool]

Diop for Ford.

Do it now.

Word.

10char

[Plowright]

WojYahooNBA (http://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA)
The Pacers are negotiating a buyout with T.J. Ford's agent on the $8.5 million owed the point guard this season, league sources tell Y!.

uh oh, something involving us with him is gonna go down, cant u feel it? lol

[rsxnova]

WojYahooNBA (http://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA)
The Pacers are negotiating a buyout with T.J. Ford's agent on the $8.5 million owed the point guard this season, league sources tell Y!.

uh oh, something involving us with him is gonna go down, cant u feel it? lol

God no.


10 Char

[CatNation]

why buy him out when they can probably screw us out of some decent players for him

[Proudiddy]

This sucks balls. We traded TC away for NOTHING. Dallas better have lubed us up before they f*cked us in ANOTHER trade. They knew that no one cared about the 'dust chip.' It really is a dust chip, it's worthless. All we got was 3 scrubs.

Meanwhile, another team in the east gets better with Collison, a player which we REALLY need. This off-season has been horrible.

[rsxnova]

This is where MJ needs to but in to this trade and say hello.

[BETCATS]

Houston did not "lose" on this trade. Courtney Lee is a good 6th man, and since they got Kevin Martin they really had no need to keep Ariza. Even though Ariza is better than Martin or Lee (at least the way i see it) he cost more money. It was a smart move to trade him.

As for New Orleans, Ariza seems like the perfect fit for keeping Paul. This guy has a great skillset and is very athletic. Plus he is a former champion. If the Hornets fix their front court (West and Okafor are way to simmular, one needs to go) they will be a contender again. The next logical move for the Hornets would be to package Julian Wright with either West or Okafor to get a center. It was a good move to trade Collison now. I view Collison as an energy guy. He is all flash no thunder, Paul is flash and thunder. Maybe Collison will become a top 15 point guard ONE DAY, but CP3 is already #1. Plus they got out of Poesy's contract which is a real big win for them.

Then again, some people on here thought we got a 'ultra steal' when we traded Hollins and Carrol for Diop so i am not suprised that people are saying the Hornets and Rockets got hosed.

To all those that thought we were getting Chris Paul: NO SOUP FOR YOU!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZ3AOmZ2fps

[CatNation]

This sucks balls. We traded TC away for NOTHING. Dallas better have lubed us up before they f*cked us in ANOTHER trade. They knew that no one cared about the 'dust chip.' It really is a dust chip, it's worthless. All we got was 3 scrubs.

Meanwhile, another team in the east gets better with Collison, a player which we REALLY need. This off-season has been horrible.

the dust chip has always been about cap management, we were never going to bring in a superstar with it. there was never a chance of getting cp3

[Plowright]

WojYahooNBA (http://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA)
The Pacers are still working on trade possibiltiies with T.J. Ford, as well as on-going discussions of a buyout, sources say.

everybody cross your fingers, things are looking rocky

[teej]

WojYahooNBA (http://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA)
The Pacers are still working on trade possibiltiies with T.J. Ford, as well as on-going discussions of a buyout, sources say.


Diop + Hendo for Ford + Rush?

[stun704]

WojYahooNBA (http://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA)
The Pacers are still working on trade possibiltiies with T.J. Ford, as well as on-going discussions of a buyout, sources say.

everybody cross your fingers, things are looking rocky
I would be happy if it was something like, Diopfor Hibbert, then Damp for TJ, then waive TJ with the money we would have saved by going in the luxury tax

DJ/Livingston/Collions
Jax/Hedo/Carrol
Crash/UPS/Nareja
TT/Diaw
Hibbert/Mohammed/Free agen C

is a solid lineup imo.

[Plowright]

WojYahooNBA (http://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA)
Rockets, Nets, Pacers and Hornets complete four-team, five player trade: http://tinyurl.com/28njkf3

well that happend quickly...

[stun704]

Well good bye hopes and dreams :(

[spectre]

It's a sad day indeed when the "big hope" left is getting TJ Ford. :facepalm:

[Chef]

we really should have moved for collison. ariza isn't really that great. naz and jax could have been used to get collison and posey. if not, throw the DUST at them for collison not cp3. i am going to predict that many teams are going to really regret not going after collison when he could be had so cheaply. he will be a stud.

[ajbry]

Acquiring Ford - basketball reasons notwithstanding - would make absolutely no sense. The point guard rotation is already 3 deep (albeit with 3 mediocre players). It seriously looks like we'll be heading into the season with Augustin/Livingston/Collins at the 1.

I'm just annoyed... The East is getting tougher and tougher by every move this offseason and the Bobcats are sinking and look poised to waste the remaining prime years of their two best players.

[ziggy]

It's a sad day indeed when the "big hope" left is getting TJ Ford. :facepalm:

Quoted for the painful truth :banghead:

[murphman]

Go look up Collison's stats last year when he starts vs. coming off the bench. Especially his assist/TO ratio. Then compare them to DJ's rookie stats of the same. DJ looks good in the starting role (he only got two chances last season and still performed well). Collison may not be much of an upgrade here.

Larry Brown complained enough to MJ about getting another PG on draft night that we let Lopez go. He wanted him so much, now he needs to start him and give him his shot.

[Plowright]

I hope MJ is having a time of reflection upon his failure at this minute...

[dav7z]

What in the hell is going with our team . We not even acting as if we give a damn about winning. Our frunt office hasn't done one positive thing this off season . And i fiiggin up graded my seats expecting a winning attitude??

[rsxnova]

I hope MJ is having a time of reflection upon his failure at this minute...

Yea this has to be sad for him. I dont think there are any PG's out there to be had for trades now. I just hope one of our 3 PG's stand up and become a balller/leader.

[teej]

Doom and gloom, whining and complaing. Yup, another day of Bobcats Basketball.

[Plowright]

Yep, and for some reason we all love it :D

[SWedd523]

Houston did not "lose" on this trade. Courtney Lee is a good 6th man, and since they got Kevin Martin they really had no need to keep Ariza. Even though Ariza is better than Martin or Lee (at least the way i see it) he cost more money. It was a smart move to trade him.

Ariza and Martin play different positions. I wouldn't think an undersized 2 guard would make an athletic small forward like Ariza expendable.

[rsxnova]

Ariza and Martin play different positions. I wouldn't think an undersized 2 guard would make an athletic small forward like Ariza expendable.

It was a Salery dump.

[BETCATS]

Ariza and Martin play different positions. I wouldn't think an undersized 2 guard would make an athletic small forward like Ariza expendable.
6-7 is hardly undersized. Martin needs the ball, Yao needs the ball, and Brooks needs the ball. For the money they were paying Ariza it wasnt worth keeping him if he couldnt get the ball for enough possessions to make a difference. Courtney Lee can do some of the same things (to a lesser extent) and is much cheaper.

PLUS it frees up minutes for Patrick Patterson who could develop into something special or at least to the same level as Ariza.

[SCBobcat]

The DUST will not be traded. We will cut him and enjoy the savings. I don't think he will sign with us for the minimum or the remainder of our MLE. Thus, we will be left with Josh Boone on a minimum contract.

[SWedd523]

I said undersized, not short. Patrick Patterson is a Power Forward (banger) not a wing. I understand that they don't need Ariza's scoring anymore with KMart on the roster, but trading your starting SF for a backup 2 doesn't make sense--especially since Shane Battier isn't getting any younger.

It was nothing but a salary dump (like whoever it was said). To that effect, they got worked in the deal as far as talent goes.

[DY_nasty]

I said undersized, not short. Patrick Patterson is a Power Forward (banger) not a wing. I understand that they don't need Ariza's scoring anymore with KMart on the roster, but trading your starting SF for a backup 2 doesn't make sense--especially since Shane Battier isn't getting any younger.

It was nothing but a salary dump (like whoever it was said). To that effect, they got worked in the deal as far as talent goes.
Chase should fill in just fine...

New Orleans got boned in this deal.

[Mustachio]

I sure am glad i bought season tickets so I can watch Jordan save money.

[BETCATS]

I said undersized, not short.
What the hell does that even mean?

Patterson is 6'8, he is not an NBA power forward. He is going to be in the same boat as a Micheal Beasley was, and will have to become a small forward in order to last. Battier/Lee/Chase Bunniger/Patterson dont need the ball as much as Ariza (which will benifit the team since Martin/Brooks/Yao do) and can still fill in and contribute for less money than Ariza was costing. It was a salary dump but it wont cost the Rockets wins. It might even improve chemistry. The Rockets have the 3 core guys and a bunch of role player/young players/energy guys.

[ohara831]

Stunned that Collison went for so little. Just feel like our FO is asleep at the wheel.

[Fred Williamson]

So our front office couldn't manage to offer them DJ and Nazr for Collison and Posey? Are you kidding me???? :facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:

We are so pathetic

[teej]

So our front office couldn't manage to offer them DJ and Nazr for Collison and Posey? Are you kidding me???? :facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:

We are so pathetic

Unless they have something else lined up, it is pretty sad.

[rsxnova]

From the mouth of our football counterparts. "It is what it is".

[BlockParty]

Is everyone forgetting....we have Dominic McGuire?

:facepalm:

[Mustachio]

Is everyone forgetting....we have Dominic McGuire?

:facepalm:


and dont forget Sharon.

[Fred Williamson]

He's the next Chris Paul!!!






according to Cole Aldrich :facepalm:


Unfuckingbelievable. I'm so mad right now.

[murphman]

NJ is in an interesting situation now. Troy Murphy is the perfect PF for them. He was the 2nd best player for Indiana last season bar none. With one year left on his contract, Derek Favors can watch and learn in a substitution role rather than throwing him into the starting position on day one.

However, Morrow is the only true SG on the entire roster. I know that they are trying to get Melo. With CP3 perhaps harder to pry away now, NJ may focus hard on Melo and getting Damp's expiring may be a major key for them to do it. Plus we may be able to attach Carroll to the trade since he fills a need for them. A three way with NJ and Denver may be possible here before the season starts if Melo has indicated he will not sign an extension by then.

[SWedd523]

What the hell does that even mean?
Let me try this again

DJ Augustin is 6 feet tall and weighs 180lb--And we call him scrawny
Kevin Martin is 7 inches taller, yet weighs 185--how else can I explain that he's undersized? The dude is painfully frail



Patterson is 6'8, he is not an NBA power forward.
Diaw is 6'8, he's a PF right?
ESPN has Patterson listed as 6'9'', certainly seems big enough to play Power Forward. No? Okay, here are some notable 6'9'' Power Forwards: Carlos Boozer, Elton Brand, Taj Gibson, Antawn Jamison, Carl Landry, Kenyon Martin, Zach Randolph, Luis Scola, Josh Smith, and David West.

I mean really. He's not an NBA PF? He's played PF/C his entire career, why is he going to slide over to SF now? He's plenty big and strong enough to bang in the low post.




You also can't tell me going from Ariza to Lee doesn't cost them at least some wins. Ariza has a higher career PER, TRB%, AST%, STL%, and BLK%. He also has a Lower DRtg and has a higher OWS (5.7 to 3.1) and DWS (ridiculous 11.7 to 4.4). There is no way they are an equally talented, much less BETTER team with Lee instead of Ariza.

[LiquidWayno]

As much as I would like to make moves, I will say this - I'd rather stay put for the moment and make a move down the road than jump on a sub-par trade right now.

[LiquidWayno]

And if I am Houston, I sign Rashad McCants now.

[murphman]

Per ESPN



The Hornets didn't stop there. NBA front office sources told ESPN.com's Marc Stein that in a separate deal, the team agreed to send swingman Julian Wright (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3241) to Toronto (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=tor) for Raptors guard Marco Belinelli (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3190). That deal, like the four-team trade, was also expected to be completed Wednesday


Filler pieces for both teams.

[ammofan]

This whole thing pisses me off. We cant get anything and there was a freakin 4 team deal pulled of that involved big men and a point guard that we could've used??? C'mon Jordan do some work now man....

RealGM also says Ford is getting a buyout....could we sign him? Guess not....we got Dj, livingston and Sherron.... We need improvements at PG and C/PF and there are some improvements available(not saying ford is an improvement)

[ALuhrs704]

This whole thing pisses me off. We cant get anything and there was a freakin 4 team deal pulled of that involved big men and a point guard that we could've used??? C'mon Jordan do some work now man....

RealGM also says Ford is getting a buyout....could we sign him? Guess not....we got Dj, livingston and Sherron.... We need improvements at PG and C/PF and there are some improvements available(not saying ford is an improvement)

how is ford not an improvement to ANYTHING weve had........ but its real fustrating watching these moves, know we still have one to make. just who knows what its gonna be!

[Chef]

With CP3 perhaps harder to pry away now, .

don't think he is any less likely to leave now that they have ariza. ariza? yeah, that's a game changer. he is gone in 2 for sure. ariza? really, you have 2 assets west and collison and you give up the bigger asset for trevor freakin ariza?

[BobCatsFanInTx]

This is where MJ needs to but in to this trade and say hello.MJ is a joke and this proves it. The Bobcats will not make any obvious trades that would benefit our team and shore up any weaknesses without first letting the current line up play. If the team sucks and players lose trade value that plan will backfire.

We are still good enough to be a low seed in the playoffs but the battle to do so will be tough and as it stands we could in fact also miss the playoffs. I don't consider Najera a scrub so I will just have to agree to disagree with you guys on that.

Simply having MJ as owner hasn't emboldened anyone to get screwed by us or make a fair trade that helps both. Since MJ no longer plays and his character is seen as questionable by a fair share of people I don't see where MJ makes a big difference at this point in getting real talent that can push the Bobcats to title contenders.

[ND22]

You know, now that this has happened Tyson for Calderon sounds pretty good right now.

But we move on, it sucks but we just hope that A) we can get that deal we've been looking for or B) hope DJ or Livingston step up next year.

[Chef]

You know, now that this has happened Tyson for Calderon sounds pretty good right now.

But we move on, it sucks but we just hope that A) we can get that deal we've been looking for or B) hope DJ or Livingston step up next year.

i'd rather have our 3 pg's now than calderon. not that he is bad but his contract is just terrible.

[DY_nasty]

MJ is a joke and this proves it. The Bobcats will not make any obvious trades that would benefit our team and shore up any weaknesses without first letting the current line up play. If the team sucks and players lose trade value that plan will backfire.

We are still good enough to be a low seed in the playoffs but the battle to do so will be tough and as it stands we could in fact also miss the playoffs. I don't consider Najera a scrub so I will just have to agree to disagree with you guys on that.

Simply having MJ as owner hasn't emboldened anyone to get screwed by us or make a fair trade that helps both. Since MJ no longer plays and his character is seen as questionable by a fair share of people I don't see where MJ makes a big difference at this point in getting real talent that can push the Bobcats to title contenders.

If only we had a young point guard on our team with lottery potential and the ability to shoot....

oh wait

MJ is doing just fine.

[BobCatsFanInTx]

This whole thing pisses me off. We cant get anything and there was a freakin 4 team deal pulled of that involved big men and a point guard that we could've used??? C'mon Jordan do some work now man....

RealGM also says Ford is getting a buyout....could we sign him? Guess not....we got Dj, livingston and Sherron.... We need improvements at PG and C/PF and there are some improvements available(not saying ford is an improvement)I would not call Ford a scrub and there was a time when he looked quite promising. Let's face it, for several years now the Pacers have been inept starting with those at the top. That kind of thing rubs off on the whole team and the players don't always perform as well in a poor working environment. TJ may be rejuvenated with LB as coach and with the core guys on our team. I see TT being that way for us this season. Hardly anybody on the Pacers team has really stood out and none of them are having career years lately. There is a dark cloud hanging over the Pacers. Maybe the recent trade will help them. TJ is not bad but the Pacers needed real change and getting Collison is important for a fresh start.

I am not a major Ford fan but in my opinion TJ is a minor improvement over what we currently have. At least to me it seems so. However it is possible the three pg's we have could be quite good. Not likely but not impossible. My biggest worry is that we make no more trades to shore up areas of weakness and the players in those positions suck and lose all trade value. If that happens we can at least know we have some expiring contracts and if we really suck we can get a lottery pick in the draft. The top of the next NBA draft looks like it may be pretty damned good.

Anyhow I would not count on getting a real difference maker at the 1 through any kind of trade. TJ Ford looks to be about as good as it gets for us I am afraid.

I can see a trade that improves us quite a bit at the 5 but we shall see what we shall see.

I honestly must admit that I hope for the best and desire some significant moves to propel the team to the top teams in the Eastern Conference, but I don't have much faith in MJ right now. I am not so sure a whole changes with MJ as what we dealt with before he bought the team. I HOPE I AM WRONG!!!

[DY_nasty]

What? The last time TJ Ford showed glimpses of anything he was wearing a Bucks jersey.

And the Pacers are hardly buried in the doom shed...

[BobCatsFanInTx]

If only we had a young point guard on our team with lottery potential and the ability to shoot....

oh wait

MJ is doing just fine.It is always funny how people bitch about the weaknesses of the team and how they are not addressed but as soon as anyone is critical of MJ everyone all of a sudden loves the players they had just said were not good enough to start.

Maybe I am wrong about MJ but in opinion he will spend at least this season being cautious and avoiding making any serious moves. If the Bobcats make it higher than a 5 seed in the east it will not be this season in my opinion. This is a season to see what needs to be done next season. No real moves to get difference makers will be done this season. At least in my way of thinking.

Perhaps I am wrong to jump the gun on MJ because this season making the playoffs will be nice and making big moves for the sake of doing so would be a mistake. There is plenty of time to make a trade or trades. As long as we have a few players that are of interest to other teams, trading during the season will be fine.

[TheBeagle]

Kind of a weird trade to me. I think Murphy's a good fit in NJ with Lopez; as a perimeter 4 he won't clog the lane for Lopez, and they just became that much better a rebounding team. Still, losing Lee is not a small deal for them...since I've never been a Harris fan, and unless I'm missing someone, their backcourt is iffy. Not sure why Houston did this. Get Ariza $ off the books? Still, Lee is a good addition. Even though I haven't bought into Collison as being anything special, they definitely upgraded at 1 (not saying much, right?) but they had to take on Posey and give up Murphy to do so. Guess it depends on how good Collison turns out to be. But NO? Wow. I thought the goal here was to KEEP CP and make him happy. Erm. Oooooookay. Still, he's serviceable enough, and if Thornton continues to make strides, they won't be terrible and should compete for a playoff spot, but depth is an issue now and they are in the west.


As for the Cats, well, I've kept my sig as it is since last year's draft for a reason...keeps from getting heartbroken. As for TJ Ford? I'd rather stick with what's already there at 1 than bring him in....but fully anticipating him being the starter come November.

I really have to wonder what Jack and GW are thinking about this team right now; they lost their co-captain and replace him with....not much; did get rid of TC, which I think they are more than fine with, but got Ericka in return. And then there's Whodafuck. I could be wrong, but if this season starts ugly, we'll see some turmoil that rivals the Ham Biscuit era what with disgruntled vets and a reluctant coach? Must move on from this train of thought....

[BobCatsFanInTx]

What? The last time TJ Ford showed glimpses of anything he was wearing a Bucks jersey.

And the Pacers are hardly buried in the doom shed...All one has to do is look at how much Raymond improved under Larry Brown. It is also obvious that TJ has some value in Larry's mind or he would not have been mentioned as coming to the Bobcats in a trade. A crappy trade but a trade none the less. Larry undervalued Crash at the time but if Larry sees promise in ANY pg I am going to say ILBIT!!! Hate on TJ all many of you want but I say he IS better than what we currently have at the 1. At least as of now. DJ or the others could be real surprises. If the Bobcats brass feel the team needs another pg they sure as hell are not going to get a whole lot through a trade. PG's along TJ Fords caliber are most likely all anyone is going to part from.

By the way Collison had ONE promising season. As a backup who played less minutes DJ I could argue had a promising season as well. While everyone is ready to make Darren Collison a CP3 in the making it may turn out far different. Darren may be much more like TJ. Time will tell.

One good season for Darren is hardly a reason to call the Pacers winners in the trades.

[DY_nasty]

Ariza is gone from Houston because he's entirely replaceable, plus he's overpaid... Expect Chase to fill in and not miss a beat.

It is always funny how people bitch about the weaknesses of the team and how they are not addressed but as soon as anyone is critical of MJ everyone all of a sudden loves the players they had just said were not good enough to start.

Maybe I am wrong about MJ but in opinion he will spend at least this season being cautious and avoiding making any serious moves. If the Bobcats make it higher than a 5 seed in the east it will not be this season in my opinion. This is a season to see what needs to be done next season. No real moves to get difference makers will be done this season. At least in my way of thinking.

Perhaps I am wrong to jump the gun on MJ because this season making the playoffs will be nice and making big moves for the sake of doing so would be a mistake. There is plenty of time to make a trade or trades. As long as we have a few players that are of interest to other teams, trading during the season will be fine.Uh... I'm pretty sure I'm the most critical Bobcat fan here. MJ hasn't done anything wrong yet. We drop Ray, okay, not that big of a deal - he lost us just as many games as he won. Tyson? He never even suited up for us as far as I can tell. What did we lose?

We had the best defense in the NBA last year. One guy (and another guy who never showed up) aren't going to drop us into Clippers territory.

I'm not sure why exactly people are mad, or upset, or holding something against DJ for suffering through Larry Brown's routine mental castration of young players.

[DY_nasty]

All one has to do is look at how much Raymond improved under Larry Brown. It is also obvious that TJ has some value in Larry's mind or he would not have been mentioned as coming to the Bobcats in a trade. A crappy trade but a trade none the less. Larry undervalued Crash at the time but if Larry sees promise in ANY pg I am going to say ILBIT!!! Hate on TJ all many of you want but I say he IS better than what we currently have at the 1. At least as of now. DJ or the others could be real surprises. If the Bobcats brass feel the team needs another pg they sure as hell are not going to get a whole lot through a trade. PG's along TJ Fords caliber are most likely all anyone is going to part from.

By the way Collison had ONE promising season. As a backup who played less minutes DJ I could argue had a promising season as well. While everyone is ready to make Darren Collison a CP3 in the making it may turn out far different. Darren may be much more like TJ. Time will tell.

One good season for Darren is hardly a reason to call the Pacers winners in the trades.
Ray improved marginally under Larry Brown. Most of his improved stats came from the ball not being in his hands as much...

TJ Ford has regressed since he's been in the NBA.

If we sign TJ Ford after letting Felton go (who are both basically in the same tier of talent) then MJ can be labeled an idiot.

[Chef]

Uh... I'm pretty sure I'm the most critical Bobcat fan here. MJ hasn't done anything wrong yet. We drop Ray, okay, not that big of a deal - he lost us just as many games as he won. Tyson? He never even suited up for us as far as I can tell. What did we lose?

We had the best defense in the NBA last year. One guy (and another guy who never showed up) aren't going to drop us into Clippers territory.

I'm not sure why exactly people are mad, or upset, or holding something against DJ for suffering through Larry Brown's routine mental castration of young players.

agree with everything. the only disappointment was that collison could be had for peanuts and i think he is going to be a stud. i still dont think we should just waive damp. it sends a bad vibe to players and fans.

[Chef]

Ray improved marginally under Larry Brown. Most of his improved stats came from the ball not being in his hands as much...

TJ Ford has regressed since he's been in the NBA.

If we sign TJ Ford after letting Felton go (who are both basically in the same tier of talent) then MJ can be labeled an idiot.

except tj is an 8.5 mil expiring and ray would have cost us 7 or 8 per for 5 years. with buyout rumors floating, diaw for ford and picks or youngins is a real possibility.

[DY_nasty]

except tj is an 8.5 mil expiring and ray would have cost us 7 or 8 per for 5 years. with buyout rumors floating, diaw for ford and picks or youngins is a real possibility.
No.

Woj is reporting that TJ is the middle of negotiating a buyout from the Pacers. If we sign TJ, then its completely idiotic given the circumstances.

I do like Collison, but dude turns the ball over like crazy. He's got like 2:1 as/to ratio or something... not only that, but the fact that both he and Paul put up big numbers has always made me question whether or not they're products of a system. Completely unfounded, I know, but its just a thought that always seems to pop into my head.

[Plowright]

Apparantly we tried to get in on this trade according to David Aldridge, we wanted to send the DUST to Indiana, Indiana would then send TJ Ford to the Raptors, The Raptors would then send Calderon to us.

Thoughts?

[DY_nasty]

Apparantly we tried to get in on this trade according to David Aldridge, we wanted to send the DUST to Indiana, Indiana would then send TJ Ford to the Raptors, The Raptors would then send Calderon to us.

Thoughts?
Seems like poor communication in the Bobcats FO.


Sounds like Higgins wants Calderon, MJ wants to develop DJ, and Larry Brown just wants everyone off of his lawn.

[SWedd523]

DUST for Jose?



Ew.

[CatNation]

the only thought i have is that im gonna be pissed off no matter how this ends

[BobCatsFanInTx]

Ray improved marginally under Larry Brown. Most of his improved stats came from the ball not being in his hands as much...

TJ Ford has regressed since he's been in the NBA.

If we sign TJ Ford after letting Felton go (who are both basically in the same tier of talent) then MJ can be labeled an idiot.You may soon be calling MJ that. If TJ was on the radar in the past I doubt he completely fell off of it now. I beg to differ with you on Raymond. He was a difference maker for the team quite a bit more than a hindrance in my opinion.

I will tell you this, based on what it looks like we have at the 1 at this time, I would much rather have Raymond where we at least would know what to expect.

Having so many real questions is unnerving. DJ has a slight track record and Sherron has none and Shaun suffered a serious injury and whether he ever resembles himself pre injury is anybody's guess. Tyrus looked good last year for a short period of time and if he can return this year even better that would be great. That said, for most of his brief career he has been a disappointment and is known to be a bit immature with a poor attitude. Boris is a question in that we have no idea how much of the season he will really show up and play with full effort. None of our Centers based on their track records are starter quality and though Nazr has looked good he should not be counted on for starters minutes. Dampier has been nowhere near good enough to start for quite some time and Diop is a waste of space on the team.

So while I would like to believe our team can make the playoffs as it currently is I just can't swear to it based on the other teams improving at least some and with us only adding more questions, I am a bit pessimistic in all honesty.

I hope MJ will roll the dice and at least take a chance on trying to improve our perceived weaknesses. I don't know that our players aside from the obvious Jax and Crash have any real trade value that will benefit our Bobcats. Unless some sort of trade comes about that looks like we get obvious upgrades, I'll be a bit nervous.

[DY_nasty]

You may soon be calling MJ that. If TJ was on the radar in the past I doubt he completely fell off of it now. I beg to differ with you on Raymond. He was a difference maker for the team quite a bit more than a hindrance in my opinion.

I will tell you this, based on what it looks like we have at the 1 at this time, I would much rather have Raymond where we at least would know what to expect.

Having so many real questions is unnerving. DJ has a slight track record and Sherron has none and Shaun suffered a serious injury and whether he ever resembles himself pre injury is anybody's guess. Tyrus looked good last year for a short period of time and if he can return this year even better that would be great. That said, for most of his brief career he has been a disappointment and is known to be a bit immature with a poor attitude. Boris is a question in that we have no idea how much of the season he will really show up and play with full effort. None of our Centers based on their track records are starter quality and though Nazr has looked good he should not be counted on for starters minutes. Dampier has been nowhere near good enough to start for quite some time and Diop is a waste of space on the team.

So while I would like to believe our team can make the playoffs as it currently is I just can't swear to it based on the other teams improving at least some and with us only adding more questions, I am a bit pessimistic in all honesty.

I hope MJ will roll the dice and at least take a chance on trying to improve our perceived weaknesses. I don't know that our players aside from the obvious Jax and Crash have any real trade value that will benefit our Bobcats. Unless some sort of trade comes about that looks like we get obvious upgrades, I'll be a bit nervous.
Never called Ray a hindrance, just a non-factor. Like I said, he's lost us just as many games as he's won.

The team has never looked good on paper. Ever. No need to start taking suicide pills now...

As for our weaknesses, I think a lot of them can be remedied by stability. The team has been in constant flux for 4 years now. Lets let the DUST settle, and RELEASE all this tension.

[TheLegend]

What we need is a new GM. I'm getting tired of Higgins.

[DY_nasty]

What we need is a new GM. I'm getting tired of Higgins.
Higgins didn't make New Orleans make the dumbest deal possible.

They didn't get a TPE, they didn't get any picks, they added salary. Every team in this deal came out better than New Orleans. I just feel sorry for their fans if anything. Ariza isn't going to make Paul stay.

[SWedd523]

I hope MJ will roll the dice and at least take a chance on trying to improve our perceived weaknesses. I don't know that our players aside from the obvious Jax and Crash have any real trade value that will benefit our Bobcats. Unless some sort of trade comes about that looks like we get obvious upgrades, I'll be a bit nervous.


If you don't consider trading for two bad contracts just to get the DUST chip to possibly be used to drastically improve our roster, then I have no idea what you consider "rolling the dice"

[Chef]

No.

Woj is reporting that TJ is the middle of negotiating a buyout from the Pacers. If we sign TJ, then its completely idiotic given the circumstances.

I do like Collison, but dude turns the ball over like crazy. He's got like 2:1 as/to ratio or something... not only that, but the fact that both he and Paul put up big numbers has always made me question whether or not they're products of a system. Completely unfounded, I know, but its just a thought that always seems to pop into my head.

if we SIGN tj then we are effing stoopit and deserve all that we get. unless, it is for the minimum. trade is the only way it should be done. there is no reason why it shouldn't happen.

[Keetch]

And then there's Whodafuck.

LMAO is this an official nickname? I can hear the PA guy now..."entering the game for Doris Biaw; Whodafuck!"

As for the trade? Meh.

This could be a long year, especially if LB plays it as a lame duck coach. I hope not.

At least we have our draft pick next year. Oh, wait.

[dvdbumpus]

Apparently we were involved in the trade.

We would have sent Dampier to Toronto for Calderon. Seriously???? To hell with that. And to hell with TJ Ford. I'd rather take Ramon Sessions or nearly anybody else besides those bums.

[truDUKEfan]

:facepalm: W????????T?????????F :facepalm:

[Bobcat Matt]

This is NO's master plan to build a "contender" around Chris Paul? An overrated Ariza who is over paid and Bellinelli....Wow, pencil in NO and LAL in the West finals...haha

I can't believe that's all they got for Collison...He was there one valuable trade asset. I don't think this changes anything on the CP3 front. This could not be the move he was thinking about when he wanted them to do something.


I'm stunned. INDY, unbelievable deal for them, if Collison is not a one year wonder, like DJ.

[Scottley Crue]

This is NO's master plan to build a "contender" around Chris Paul? An overrated Ariza who is over paid and Bellinelli....Wow, pencil in NO and LAL in the West finals...haha

I can't believe that's all they got for Collison...He was there one valuable trade asset. I don't think this changes anything on the CP3 front. This could not be the move he was thinking about when he wanted them to do something.


I'm stunned. INDY, unbelievable deal for them, if Collison is not a one year wonder, like DJ.
I'm with you on this. I can in no way, shape or form understand this from NO point of view. They seem to have got very little for Collison and I just don't believe Ariza, while very talented, will make CP3 jump over the moon. Though it doesn't seem as likely as before, I don't know that this takes CP3 completely off the table. It may just make it even clearer to him (and then to the team) that he's bolting when he can. I...I just can't even begin to wrap my head around this move for NO.

[Chef]

i floated this on real gm. boris + 2nd for tj + 1st (top 10 protected)

[BRNC]

Let me first say that I would have liked Collison here but he is not...I have no idea how he will play his sophomore season but if DJ is a gauge he's probably better off not here...

Second...on two occasions trades that indicated TJ Ford might come here came to naught...we know for sure on the first one LB did not want it to happen...the second we got TT instead...but if LB wanted TJ Ford he'd already be here...after Indy buys him out he might get an invite...I don't know...but I think him here at all is only if Indy buys him out and then so long Sherron...but is TJ an upgrade over what we have now...not IMO...

The Dust chip...I've said in another post...it has value...not super-star value but I think it will still bring us an upgrade over what we currently have at PG...

[teej]

Couple things guys.

First, for those talking about the TJ Ford situation:

A) Remember the reports of how, when he heard he was being traded to Charlotte, he literally jumped and started dancing?

B) MJ wants TJ, not LB or Rod. MJ tried to trade Crash for TJ, and Colangelo said no.

C) If we dump salary for him, it's a smart move, especially if that salary would hinder the addition of CP3.

On the general state of the 'Cats:

A) When Larry Brown came here, we had no 4, questions at the 1 and the whole bench, and we almost made the playoffs.

B) Going into this past year, the 2 and 5 were major questions, and there were issues with the depth at the 4. Yet somehow, this team made the playoffs.

C) Even if Damp is merely waived and re-signed, that's major savings for MJ that allowed him to pick up Livingston and re-sign Tyrus while not losing anything that great and adding to bench depth.

D) Diaw is almost assuredly traded before the season, and if we traded him for TJ Ford, then we save 9.5 million and get depth where we need it and lose a marginal starter at a loaded position.

Quit whining, guys.

[rsxnova]

I stand firm on saying no to TJ Ford, but i could live with him for Boris.

[teej]

I stand firm on saying no to TJ Ford, but i could live with him for Boris.

I don't want him either. But I'd still trade Diop or Boris for him and be thrilled if it was just a salary dump.

[rsxnova]

I don't want him either. But I'd still trade Diop or Boris for him and be thrilled if it was just a salary dump.

Diop for him would be a dream come true.

[Cats4lif3]

Here is just a thought keep our pg's and hope one becomes a good starter and use dampier and or Boris for a center like the big Russian from gsw and then whoever waives damp we can hopefully resign him for cheap

[teej]

Here is just a thought keep our pg's and hope one becomes a good starter and use dampier and or Boris for a center like the big Russian from gsw and then whoever waives damp we can hopefully resign him for cheap

Biedrins is Latvian, if that's who you mean.

I don't want him for Damp.

[x2pacalypse]

i havent read much on this but thank god the chris paul saga is over with

[batingaw]

Now, I am ready to give up Chris Paul and ready to hear about backup plans.
I am ok with DJ to start next year. I remember the game when they sit Felton at the end of the season. I think he did a good job. 13 pts, 9ast/1TO, 2 steals and 1 blk.
But I think Bobcats needs some help in the center position, an athletic big man like TC but no injuries.

[Fred Williamson]

I don't want him either. But I'd still trade Diop or Boris for him and be thrilled if it was just a salary dump.

okay then, but who's going to be our backup PF? Seriously, Tyrus is NOT starter material, he couldn't get it done in Chicago and it will be painful to watch him 35 minutes per night.

[CatNation]

does management not remember how pissed off Jackson got when GS refused to bring in talent and downgraded the roster? he basically quit on them. not bringing back one of his best buds in Raymond and overall downgrading the roster over the summer, don't be surprised when Jackson starts whining and quitting on us. this team could potentially collapse any time now. we already have a coach that doesnt really want to be here

[rsxnova]

okay then, but who's going to be our backup PF? Seriously, Tyrus is NOT starter material, he couldn't get it done in Chicago and it will be painful to watch him 35 minutes per night.

I dont think we paid him that much to back up Doris.

[teej]

I dont think we paid him that much to back up Doris.

This.

Tyrus/Najera/McGuire/UPS

That's not bad at all.

[Toocool]

Again, unless you are Millsap you don't sign that much money, and expect the guy to back you up in Bobcats land.

[spectre]

Apparantly we tried to get in on this trade according to David Aldridge, we wanted to send the DUST to Indiana, Indiana would then send TJ Ford to the Raptors, The Raptors would then send Calderon to us.

Thoughts?


the only thought i have is that im gonna be pissed off no matter how this ends

No doubt.

You have to f*cking be kidding me. We were going to trade DUST for Caleron? Wouldn't we STILL be over the LT if we did that?

The 3 stooges could do better.

[Chef]

no buyout for ford. prediction: boris for tj and hopefully we can swap a 2nd for a 1st. honestly, what team is going to make a better offer. all offers are going to be roster scrubs for an expiring because they know the pacers will be desperate to get rid of him. plus, boris's game will compliment the pacers lineup right now.

The Pacers tried to throw point guard T.J. Ford into Wednesday's four-team trade.

When that didn't work they tried to negotiate a buyout with the veteran to a similar result.

Indiana offered Ford a buyout of $5 million.

"I'm not taking a buyout," said Ford, who is scheduled to make $8.5 million this coming season.

Read more: http://basketball.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/68653/20100812/ford_rejects_buyout_offer_from_pacers/#ixzz0wOUN8RGT

[Chef]

Now, I am ready to give up Chris Paul and ready to hear about backup plans.
I am ok with DJ to start next year. I remember the game when they sit Felton at the end of the season. I think he did a good job. 13 pts, 9ast/1TO, 2 steals and 1 blk.
But I think Bobcats needs some help in the center position, an athletic big man like TC but no injuries.

this is a very risky trade especially since it assures orlando of a title or multiple titles but gets us out of jax's contract. he WILL become a distraction if we fail to improve/contend for a title not just a playoff spot.

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=23r3kw3

diaw + jax for vc + daniel orton

we could also try to get future 1sts out of it.

or if that is too sweet for them
2 trades for logistical reasons
the above trade
matty for bass

ok, i am ready to hear the boo's

[spectre]

Boo!!!!

:p

I just can't believe that Aldridge story is true. I've never had high regard for our FO (understatement), but this smacks of pure idiocy.

Unless we REALLY just wanted Carroll & Najera. :facepalm:

[GoBobs]

I have a feeling something I going to go down real soon. I just hope it isn't a knee jerk reaction.

[Chef]

Boo!!!!

:p


yup..

but here is my logic. it saves us 8 mil in the third year, gives us a mega-expiring in 2 years (right when cp3 becomes a FA, although we all know that ship is long gone). he also, gives us the answer at sg and would compliment what we have already on the roster. he can shoot better than any of our starters and can still run up and down the court. of course, he is the biggest puss in the league.

we could then use damp to sure up the point or more importantly get a center. it looks like he isn't as valuable as we thought though. no super-star in return. how about biedrins from gs.

damp and diop for biendrins and brandon wright
more likely
damp for biedrins
bass for wright

line up
dj/livingston/collins
vc/hendo
crash/ups
tt/bass or wright/edwardo
biedrins/nazr/diop (hopefully not)

[Mustachio]

yup..

but here is my logic. it saves us 8 mil in the third year, gives us a mega-expiring in 2 years (right when cp3 becomes a FA, although we all know that ship is long gone). he also, gives us the answer at sg and would compliment what we have already on the roster. he can shoot better than any of our starters and can still run up and down the court. of course, he is the biggest puss in the league.

we could then use damp to sure up the point or more importantly get a center. it looks like he isn't as valuable as we thought though. no super-star in return. how about biedrins from gs.

damp and diop for biendrins and brandon wright
more likely
damp for biedrins
bass for wright

line up
dj/livingston/collins
vc/hendo
crash/ups
tt/bass or wright/edwardo
biedrins/nazr/diop (hopefully not)


any trade that involves vince carter anywhere near the Bobcats is a horrible trade.

he isnt the answer to anything, especially when we have a guy who is 15 times better than VC will ever be.

[spectre]

NBA AM: Bobcats Still After Calderon (http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?STORY_ID=17064&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter)


At the end of the day the Bobcats couldn't get their end of the deal done, and they are again talking with Toronto directly about a deal for Jose.

The Raptors are eager to move Calderon and with Charlotte expressing real interest again, it seems like a good match.

The Bobcats currently have three point guards on the roster – returning reserve guard D.J. Augustin, free agent signee Shaun Livingston and undrafted free agent Sharron Collins.

None of those three inspire a lot of confidence in the Cats quest to get back to the playoffs; however the Bobcats would have quite the logjam at the point guard spot if they acquire Calderon without making a move to lighten their roster.

Bobcats' head coach Larry Brown has never been very high on Augustin and often hinted that he would be traded last season.

With last year's starter Raymond Felton now a New York Knick, Augustin is the only point guard coming into camp that knows the system, so there is a chance he's given an opportunity to win the starting job.

But with Charlotte still talking deals for Calderon, it seems more likely than not that DJ could be on his way out in Charlotte, even though he's the most experienced and proven guard on the roster.


:cry:

[Fred Williamson]

By: Steve Kyler (skyler@hoopsworld.com)

That's all you need to know.

[ammofan]

I made a new thread about Jose....I thought it deserved it.

[spectre]

That's all you need to know.

...AND Aldridge.

You don't think there's some fire amidst all this smoke?

[spankymoore7]

How about Augustin, Carroll, Dampier, Mohammad for Dunleavy, Ford, Foster, Posey? Hate to lose DJ, but would get us under the luxury tax, nice role players in dunleavy, foster, and posey. Plus, Ford and Dunleavy are huge expirings that we could maybe move near the trade deadline.

Ford/Livingston/Collins
Jackson/Hendo/Posey
Wallace/Dunleavy/Brown
TT/Diaw/McGuire
Foster/Diop/Najera

Or could probably move ford for calderon, toronto probably would just dump him

[Toocool]

How about Augustin, Carroll, Dampier, Mohammad for Dunleavy, Ford, Foster, Posey? Hate to lose DJ, but would get us under the luxury tax, nice role players in dunleavy, foster, and posey. Plus, Ford and Dunleavy are huge expirings that we could maybe move near the trade deadline.

Ford/Livingston/Collins
Jackson/Hendo/Posey
Wallace/Dunleavy/Brown
TT/Diaw/McGuire
Foster/Diop/Najera

Or could probably move ford for calderon, toronto probably would just dump him

Dunleavy is shockingly bad. Overpaid roleplayer who doesn't contribute much. Massive scrub with a massive contract, much like our friend Diop the friendly benchwarmer.

Edit: Okay so he isn't that bad, but he's still terrible. For 1/9th of the cost, we can resign Flip whos cheaper, more offensively polished and just as dangerous from 3. Plus Hammer will be camping the 3 point line this year.

[spankymoore7]

Dunleavy scored 10 points a game last year. Plus he is an expiring-very very different from diop's contract

[Chef]

but he is expiring. i would do that deal.

[murphman]

don't think he is any less likely to leave now that they have ariza. ariza? yeah, that's a game changer. he is gone in 2 for sure. ariza? really, you have 2 assets west and collison and you give up the bigger asset for trevor freakin ariza?




SLAM: Let’s talk about Trevor Ariza, now on the Hornets. What’s his value to your team?
Chris Paul: Oh man, he brings the ability to defend. You know what I mean? Against guys like DWade and Kobe Bryant, stuff like that. Playing against him over the years, he’s a competitor. He’s got that hunger that he showed in winning a championship with the Lakers. It’s something that we can definitely use.


Sounds like CP3 is OK with the move. I'm not saying this trade makes him totally happy but the chances of him leaving before the start of the season have diminished.

Now if it is early Feb. and NO is sitting on a .333 winning %, all bets are off as to what might happen. However I doubt we will have anywhere near any assets to offer to even come close to make a play for him.

[CatNation]

Sounds like CP3 is OK with the move. I'm not saying this trade makes him totally happy but the chances of him leaving before the start of the season have diminished.

Now if it is early Feb. and NO is sitting on a .333 winning %, all bets are off as to what might happen. However I doubt we will have anywhere near any assets to offer to even come close to make a play for him.

After trading Collison there is 0% chance NO trades Chris Paul to anyone, ever. They've talked to Chris and if they weren't convinced CP3 wanted to play for them they wouldn't have traded Collison. They also must feel from talking to him that they have very good odds in re-signing him in 2 years.

[BobCatsFanInTx]

If you don't consider trading for two bad contracts just to get the DUST chip to possibly be used to drastically improve our roster, then I have no idea what you consider "rolling the dice"Nobody is obviously biting on the DUST chip and as far as any proposed trades it seems all that Higgins and MJ are doing IS rolling the dice. From what I have seen the proposed trades are really shit and do nothing to get us further ahead next season from last season. I could give a shit less if we take on salary if it means those players perform. But when we are looking at taking crap that is overpaid and overvalued I would rather us not make a deal. There a plenty of good value deals to be made but if trading the dust chip brings us DUST I think I would pass. So far I haven't heard squat in trade rumors about the "dust chip" being offered or asked about. What I have seen are crappy trade scenarios that bring us an underwhelming pg who really does squat to improve our team. If we really have anything anyone wanted, MJ and Higgins would have made a trade that brings real value with it by now.

So pardon me for being a realist but MJ and Higgins will do one of two things before next season starts. They will (A) Keep the players we currently have to start the season or (B) They will overvalue some schmuck with a high dollar long term contract and get him in an unfair trade. The other team or teams will be left laughing at what a schmuck MJ and Higgins are.

I truthfully don't get off on the idea that our Bobcats are set up to MAYBE make a playoff run this year. I would much rather our team looks to have a real chance to be more than a 7th or 8th seed this season. A season of losing or mediocrity will not increase the value of any of the players we find cumbersome to the team. The reality for me is that I would rather not leave the Center and PG positions up to chance.

I hate that TT is really unproven because the fact that he is our starter and we have put all our hopes on him performing beyond his career numbers while also hoping he does not ruin team chemistry sucks. I can deal with that for the time being but I do feel the Bobcats are in a real pickle at the 1 and 5 positions. If I upset some of you with my pessimism so be it but I hate leaving a season to chance. At least in regards to our pg's and somewhat in regards to our Centers.

If our team gets decent value for the "DUST chip" I will abstain from fapping for the whole NBA season.;)

[Chef]

Sounds like CP3 is OK with the move. I'm not saying this trade makes him totally happy but the chances of him leaving before the start of the season have diminished.

Now if it is early Feb. and NO is sitting on a .333 winning %, all bets are off as to what might happen. However I doubt we will have anywhere near any assets to offer to even come close to make a play for him.

oh, he is ok with the move. he had input into it. i meant he is still gone in 2012 no doubt. plus, he was never going to leave, he couldn't it is up to NO to trade him.

[Chef]

After trading Collison there is 0% chance NO trades Chris Paul to anyone, ever. They've talked to Chris and if they weren't convinced CP3 wanted to play for them they wouldn't have traded Collison. They also must feel from talking to him that they have very good odds in re-signing him in 2 years.

he's gone. him and melo are both going to nyk. book it. he told them that so that he would quiet all the "i want traded" talk because he saw what that kind of attention does to your rep through LBJ this summer.

[BobCatsFanInTx]

Never called Ray a hindrance, just a non-factor. Like I said, he's lost us just as many games as he's won.

The team has never looked good on paper. Ever. No need to start taking suicide pills now...

As for our weaknesses, I think a lot of them can be remedied by stability. The team has been in constant flux for 4 years now. Lets let the DUST settle, and RELEASE all this tension.No sense in arguing over Felton. There are those of us that feel that Felton on many nights was a factor. Then there are those like yourself who guys like myself feel undervalue Raymond's contributions to the team. No big deal. At the end of the day we all root for the Bobcats.

I must say personally that it will feel weird when our Bobcats play the Knicks and we are watching Raymond play for them.

[BobCatsFanInTx]

Never called Ray a hindrance, just a non-factor. Like I said, he's lost us just as many games as he's won.

The team has never looked good on paper. Ever. No need to start taking suicide pills now...

As for our weaknesses, I think a lot of them can be remedied by stability. The team has been in constant flux for 4 years now. Lets let the DUST settle, and RELEASE all this tension.I beg to differ with you about how our team is perceived on paper. Other than the 5 the rest of the team was at least not seen as bad on paper. I don't think our team making the playoffs as an 7th seed last year was THAT big of a shock to the so called experts

[CatNation]

he's gone. him and melo are both going to nyk. book it. he told them that so that he would quiet all the "i want traded" talk because he saw what that kind of attention does to your rep through LBJ this summer.

I wouldn't be so sure. NO has had extensive discussions with him and if he indicated he wouldn't be for re-signing in 2012 why wouldn't they trade him now and maximize value? And why would they trade their young stud Collison if they thought theyd be left high and dry with no PG in 2 years?

[SWedd523]

Tex, my point is that they are AT LEAST gambling to make something better out of what we have now. Sure the DUST chip might not work. But I applaud them for the gamble and at least trying to make us better.


Trying and failing is much better than not trying at all.

[teej]

Tex, my point is that they are AT LEAST gambling to make something better out of what we have now. Sure the DUST chip might not work. But I applaud them for the gamble and at least trying to make us better.


Trying and failing is much better than not trying at all.

To back this point up, here are some famous quotes from MJ.


I can accept failure, everyone fails at something. But I can't accept not trying.


I never looked at the consequences of missing a big shot... when you think about the consequences you always think of a negative result.


I've missed more than 9000 shots in my career. I've lost almost 300 games. 26 times, I've been trusted to take the game winning shot and missed. I've failed over and over and over again in my life. And that is why I succeed.



I've never been afraid to fail.


If you accept the expectations of others, especially negative ones, then you never will change the outcome.


Some people want it to happen, some wish it would happen, others make it happen.

[rsxnova]

To back this point up, here are some famous quotes from MJ.

Im not sure it that inspires confidence or not.

[SWedd523]

Im not sure it that inspires confidence or not.

Being conservative won't get you anywhere in the NBA.

[teej]

Being conservative won't get you anywhere in the NBA.

Well, it will get you into the lottery.

[rsxnova]

Being conservative won't get you anywhere in the NBA.

I think we found that out out early. Lets draft the white guy with the stache. He wants to come here. That other guy dosent want to come here.:biggrin:

[spectre]

Tex, my point is that they are AT LEAST gambling to make something better out of what we have now. Sure the DUST chip might not work. But I applaud them for the gamble and at least trying to make us better.


Trying and failing is much better than not trying at all.

I'm with you on that. My fear however is that since it didn't work we're going to panic and take on something we're going to regret later. Don't trade for Caleron and his big ass contract...just hang with the status quo and maybe DJ or Livingston will rise to the occasion.

And regardless of my "ILBIT" I'm afraid LB is going to be the one pushing for it (Steve Francis). I've figured all along he wouldn't be satisfied with the PGs, and now he has no C who can defend the P&R. He's going to bitch until we do something...and I'm worried it's going to end up biting us big time.

[SWedd523]

I think all of that hinges on our early season play. Assuming (and that's a huge assumption) that we don't make any moves this offseason, If we start out slow and DJ/Livingston underwhelms, it's a guarantee that Calderon/Ford will be on our roster in some shitty move.



Do you think we last until the season starts, or do you think we get antsy and make a move like I posted?

[spectre]

I think all of that hinges on our early season play. Assuming (and that's a huge assumption) that we don't make any moves this offseason, If we start out slow and DJ/Livingston underwhelms, it's a guarantee that Calderon/Ford will be on our roster in some shitty move.



Do you think we last until the season starts, or do you think we get antsy and make a move like I posted?

I'll go with "antsy".

I think that even if MJ kept it as is LB will figure the status quo won't work and it'd take an overwhelming display by our current guys to convince him otherwise.