Bye Bye Boris?

[G Wuh Wuh Wuh Wallace]

With the rumors of Lois "dracula" Amumndson and Walter "fabio" Herrmann I feel like the FO is feeling out the market for a backup or someone to share minutes at PF when Boris is shipped out. Thoughts?:g: Possible Boris destination?

[Chef]

boris has been gone if the right offer is available. if not, he is a much better backup than either admundson or fabio.

[G Wuh Wuh Wuh Wallace]

I know boris is gone eventually but Im starting to think think there is no way we start the first game with him on the roster. I think he is long gone before the season starts. He wont get a chance to be a back-up. Although i do like him as a 6th man, just not a starter. He is a good role player.

[TattoodCats4life]

I think they were thinking amundson as a C/pf not a PF/c if that makes sense. He played a good bit of time at center on the Suns, but how would it be if our PF was bigger than our C, and again I bring up this lineup that would be just weird:
Livingston 6-7
Jax 6-8
GW 6-8.5
TT 6-10
Amundson 6-9

We're all the same :)

[LiquidWayno]

Who knows, maybe coming off the bench would motivate Boris? That's where he thrived in Phoenix.

[SWedd523]

He thrived for one year--when Amar'e was out with an injury.

[Ampsportsduo]

Who knows, maybe coming off the bench would motivate Boris? That's where he thrived in Phoenix.

Truth be told he pouted much of the time, because he was asked to play Amare's role in the offense rather than allowing him to use his playmaking skills that "earned" him the contract in the first place.

I'm leaning towards him being gone as well, even though I've outlined my concerns about him not being in the starting lineup before. If the team starts the season with him on the bench, I worry his stock will sag even lower (like his belly). If he's lethargic and disinterested as he was toward the end in Phoenix, he'll have little value above a salary dump.

[GoBobs]

I don't think there is any way we can afford to get rid of Boris. He is our best post up scoring option. If Nazr gets injured he can also fill in at center.

DJ
Jack
Wallace
TT
Diaw

just might be our best lineup anyway.

[Woodsy23]

I don't think there is any way we can afford to get rid of Boris. He is our best post up scoring option. If Nazr gets injured he can also fill in at center.

DJ
Jack
Wallace
TT
Diaw

just might be our best lineup anyway.

if that's the lineup we start the season with its definitely time to blow this team up and start again.

[teej]

Shaun Livingston
Jack
Wallace
TT
Nazzy

just might be our best lineup anyway.

Fixed it for you.

[Veteran_Picksetter]

He thrived for one year--when Amar'e was out with an injury.

Don't forget the first season played for us. No doubt he was key to our improvement.

Despite his ability to disappear, year after year coaches give Boris big minutes anyway....

Maybe NBA coaches understand something a lot of people here DON'T.....

[ND22]

Don't forget the first season played for us. No doubt he was key to our improvement.

Despite his ability to disappear, year after year coaches give Boris big minutes anyway....

Maybe NBA coaches understand something a lot of people here DON'T.....

Its possible. I for one don't have a huge problem with him, I just feel like he could be better than he is. Stephen Jackson said Boris could go for a triple double every night if he wanted, while I think that's a stretch this says that his teammates see his ability but for some reason or another he's not living up to that. Regardless of that, I will say this, in the 2 years he's been here our team has improved.

[LiquidWayno]

I rip on Boris and DJ both a fair amount, but I will say this - if they both play at the level they did in 2008-09 instead of 09-10, we will be very tough to beat. I'm talking 4th place in the Eastern conference. It's not out of the question. I feel better about DJ's chances of playing at a high level all year than I do Diaw's.

[Toocool]

I understand alot of people bag Boris on this site. It's understandable with his questionable work ethic, attitude, seemingly bored state and passivity, we all know what he does bring to the table. I for one am in favour of TT starting over Diaw, but I don't think it's the end of the world if we don't trade him. I'm all for Boris staying on this team, but as a 6/7th man off the bench (Livingston would be 6th/7th).

[Plowright]

Check out my article on "why keeping diaw may not be so bad" on the home page of www.bobcatsplanet.com (http://www.bobcatsplanet.com) Brings up alot of the things you guys are saying on this thread

[bobcatniners09]

I rip on Boris and DJ both a fair amount, but I will say this - if they both play at the level they did in 2008-09 instead of 09-10, we will be very tough to beat. I'm talking 4th place in the Eastern conference. It's not out of the question. I feel better about DJ's chances of playing at a high level all year than I do Diaw's.

No way we finish top 4 in the east. Assuming the Heat, Magic and Celtics finish in the top 3. You think we will be better than the Bulls, Hawks and Bucks?Maybe the Bucks, but the Bulls may be better than the C's and we are not close to that level with our current roster.

7th or 8th is way more likely right now.

[Chef]

Check out my article on "why keeping diaw may not be so bad" on the home page of www.bobcatsplanet.com (http://www.bobcatsplanet.com) Brings up alot of the things you guys are saying on this thread

1 reason not on your list. next year he is a 9 mil expiring who is also a very capable playoff performer. should fetch a nice bounty if we play the cards right.

[Veteran_Picksetter]

Check out my article on "why keeping diaw may not be so bad" on the home page of www.bobcatsplanet.com (http://www.bobcatsplanet.com) Brings up alot of the things you guys are saying on this thread

Plowman, I did read your article.

People have to understand that you need a big man with perimeter skills on your roster. A big man who is any sort of a threat to do anything from the outside draws a big defender out of the lane play after play, and opens things up for everyone else. Boris is that for us.

You also need guys like Boris who can move their feet on defensive switch-offs and guard a wide variety of players. Tyrus can do that along with his superior interior "D", but he doesn't have Boris' perimeter prowess on the offensive end. I like having them both on the team. And we had some success playing them side-by-side last year.

Versatility is so important, especially when you're a small market team that can't bring in the big payroll.

I also think that perimeter-skilled big men tend to age well in this league. Diaw will some day "only" move well enough to defend 4's and 5's. But he will still create matchup issues with his unique ball skills.

People also knock Boris for his poor rebounding, but I'm not aware that rebounding has been an issue for this squad in his two years here.

[BlockParty]

We should all have an opportunity to watch Boris play the USA tomorrow:

Sunday: USA vs. France, Madison Square Garden, 1 p.m. ET, ESPN2, ESPN3.com

as shown on http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/olybb/news/story?id=5464038

[Plowright]

1 reason not on your list. next year he is a 9 mil expiring who is also a very capable playoff performer. should fetch a nice bounty if we play the cards right.

I very almost wrote about that, however he has a player option just like Tyson did this year. He would be stupid not to take it as he would not get 9 mil after last seasons performance. But i do see your point, just need to wait ANOTHER year after this one!

[Plowright]

Plowman, I did read your article.

People have to understand that you need a big man with perimeter skills on your roster. A big man who is any sort of a threat to do anything from the outside draws a big defender out of the lane play after play, and opens things up for everyone else. Boris is that for us.

You also need guys like Boris who can move their feet on defensive switch-offs and guard a wide variety of players. Tyrus can do that along with his superior interior "D", but he doesn't have Boris' perimeter prowess on the offensive end. I like having them both on the team. And we had some success playing them side-by-side last year.

Versatility is so important, especially when you're a small market team that can't bring in the big payroll.

I also think that perimeter-skilled big men tend to age well in this league. Diaw will some day "only" move well enough to defend 4's and 5's. But he will still create matchup issues with his unique ball skills.

People also knock Boris for his poor rebounding, but I'm not aware that rebounding has been an issue for this squad in his two years here.


I completley agree with you! i didnt want to go into the detail you did about speed,3 point shooting as i know everyone on this forum is knowlegable enough to know his specific skill set. Well at least we are acouple who wont mind him being still on the roster

[BobCatsFanInTx]

boris has been gone if the right offer is available. if not, he is a much better backup than either admundson or fabio.Amundson is twice the player for WHAT HE GIVES to a team as Doris currently is. Doris is out of shape while playing for France and if playing for his home nation does not motivate him nothing will. The guy was in better shape last season and yet nearly everyone on this board has agreed that he was nothing like he was when we first got him. That only lends itself to people seeing him as a guy who is lazy and unmotivated. Amundson is a guy who will hustle and play his ass off. He may not be an offensive asset but he sure as hell offers our team more in all the other areas. He WILL listen to LB and would fit in with his teammates a hell of a lot better than has Doris.

Now if Doris appeared to show some motivation and was in good to great shape at this time I would see that he has taken being a better player and a Bobcat seriously. If however it seems as though he remains a jelly roll and does not look good while playing for France, I think I would much rather have Amundson and/or Fabio.

That fact that Doris is still a Bobcat and has not been traded should say all we need to know about how he is perceived by the rest of the league. If they don't want him I don't see how he is our best 4/5 option.

[BobCatsFanInTx]

Don't forget the first season played for us. No doubt he was key to our improvement.

Despite his ability to disappear, year after year coaches give Boris big minutes anyway....

Maybe NBA coaches understand something a lot of people here DON'T.....Like all those coaches who haven't thus far offered anything worth squat for Boris/Doris?

We have seen that we were right about Emeka based on how the people of New Orleans and the rest of the league have seen him thus far.

I don't think people are off base for viewing Doris the way they view him. If Doris got solid minutes it was most likely more about coaches feeling there was a lack of depth at his position.

There was time when Doris was BORIS but seeing how he looks at this time and seeing how he was soft and lacked any confidence while all too often differing to his teammates says all we need to know at THIS TIME.

A lot of talent without effort and confidence does not matter. A limited amount of talent with a ton of effort can amount to a player being more of an asset than the high talent guy.

[BlockParty]

This is by no means a final endorsement that Diaw will start the season in a Bobcats uniform, but last week when the Bobcats released the Preseason schedule, they also included some artwork of our 'starters'.

Look who's in the first picture.

http://www.nba.com/bobcats/

http://www.nba.com/bobcats/photos/100818_blog_main.jpg

Almost immediately after we were eliminated in the playoffs, the Bobcats started to remove Raymond as one of the focal points of our team as presented to the public. (Last summer it was GW and Ray in most of the media releases, advertisments, etc).

BTW in the picture above where DJ is nipping at Curry's shot, if you look under DJ's right forearm, and above Curry's head you see the ORANGE 3's up in the 2nd deck. Those 3's and the B's (for blocks) is where I sit every home game, not as nice as a lot of your seats, but the men's room is 15 feet away, the elevator is 30 feet away and the closet concession stand is about 3 sections away. It's row C, and the 2 rows in front of us always sell-out to people wearing opposing jerseys when Kobe, Lebron, Dwade come to town. It's fun to heckle them during the last couple minutes of a victory.

[BETCATS]

So our lineup is gonna be Doris/Tyrus/Crash/Capt Jack/DJ?
They made a movie about this.

http://www.downloadost.com/ost/big-apocalypse-now-ost.jpg

[BlockParty]

So our lineup is gonna be Doris/Tyrus/Crash/Capt Jack/DJ?
They made a movie about this.


Yep..no love for Nazr either.

[teej]

Yep..no love for Nazr either.

They've only been trying to trade him for 3 years now.

He's an expiring, and unfortuately is likely trade bait.

I'd love to see Nazr play out his contract here then sign an extension. Great guy, great mentor.

[Veteran_Picksetter]

Like all those coaches who haven't thus far offered anything worth squat for Boris/Doris?

We have seen that we were right about Emeka based on how the people of New Orleans and the rest of the league have seen him thus far.

I don't think people are off base for viewing Doris the way they view him. If Doris got solid minutes it was most likely more about coaches feeling there was a lack of depth at his position.

There was time when Doris was BORIS but seeing how he looks at this time and seeing how he was soft and lacked any confidence while all too often differing to his teammates says all we need to know at THIS TIME.

A lot of talent without effort and confidence does not matter. A limited amount of talent with a ton of effort can amount to a player being more of an asset than the high talent guy.


What does New Orleans' take on Emeka Okafor have to do with Boris Diaw? Emeka Okafor was a double-double shot-swatting machine FOR US, but that is another thread.....

So, year after year, Boris just HAPPENS to play at a position where there is not enough depth for his team. Oh, okay, THAT'S why he plays so much wherever he lands. How lucky for him....

Bottom line is this: Coaches like versatility and players who set up their teammates. That is the very essence of Boris Diaw.

He defers to his teammates too often? He defered us all the way to a 44-win season and a playoff berth 2 seasons removed from the Sam Vincent era. I'm glad he defers to his teammates with Stephen Jackson AND Gerald Wallace on the roster. That's just smart basketball, overall.

And I don't care if he's a dough boy at this time playing for France this summer. This less effort he gives to France this summer, the better for us this winter.

[teej]

Diaw is like Rasheed Wallace, in that he has enough talent that he has to do no work at all, but is still a starter in the NBA.

Only difference is Sheed has a ring.

[Fred Williamson]

What were you guys thinking? Of course we are going to keep Diaw as a starter for next season. For the thousandth time, Tyrus is not starter material. He's dumb as a rock, can't pass, has no bball IQ and is useless offensively if he's not in the open court dunking the ball.

If you really want Tyrus starting over Diaw, you obviously don't understand the game of basketball.

[BRNC]

If you really want Tyrus starting over Diaw, you obviously don't understand the game of basketball.

This kind of thing still bothers me when folks do it...the "if you don't agree with my opinion you are a fill in the blank"...I'd really like to see it stop...:facepalm:

[stun704]

What were you guys thinking? Of course we are going to keep Diaw as a starter for next season. For the thousandth time, Tyrus is not starter material. He's dumb as a rock, can't pass, has no bball IQ and is useless offensively if he's not in the open court dunking the ball.

If you really want Tyrus starting over Diaw, you obviously don't understand the game of basketball.
why da hell did we pay him all dat money and give up a first round pick? if he doesn't start over diaw i will eat my shoe

[BlockParty]

if he doesn't start over diaw i will eat my shoe

Would you like Mustard, Mayo or BBQ sauce as a condiment?

If Boris is on the roster opening night, he will start until they trade him (to prove to the other 29 teams that he can still play and play as a starter). TT just got paid a lot of money, he isn't going to care if he's coming off the bench or not (after LB sits him down and has a pep talk).

[ALuhrs704]

This kind of thing still bothers me when folks do it...the "if you don't agree with my opinion you are a fill in the blank"...I'd really like to see it stop...:facepalm:
i agree. plus when tyrus does start this guy who "knows" basketball can shut up. boris should change his last name to iaw cuz he plays zero D. he cant jump and is soft, i dont want him in my post even if he can make plays. so can tyrus. boris wont be getting a rebound over ANYONE but smaller players.

[Toocool]

i agree. plus when tyrus does start this guy who "knows" basketball can shut up. boris should change his last name to iaw cuz he plays zero D. he cant jump and is soft, i dont want him in my post even if he can make plays. so can tyrus. boris wont be getting a rebound over ANYONE but smaller players.

I've heard that engineers and scientists in France are trying to find a way to convert Boris's lovely soft fat into the softest mattresses in the world. It is apparently going to revolutionise the mattress world, and people who suffer from sore backs are going to be cured forever because of this great man Boris and his eating habits.

There are big things in store for Battress.

[Fred Williamson]

i agree. plus when tyrus does start this guy who "knows" basketball can shut up. boris should change his last name to iaw cuz he plays zero D. he cant jump and is soft, i dont want him in my post even if he can make plays. so can tyrus. boris wont be getting a rebound over ANYONE but smaller players.

Diaw plays zero defense? what were you watching last year dude? He wasn't great but solid at least, and did a great job against guys like Tim Duncan and Amare. Moreover, we were the best defensive team last year and you want to tell me our starting power forward "played zero D" ? Really? :facepalm:


why da hell did we pay him all dat money and give up a first round pick? because we have a bunch of morons sitting in our front office

[BETCATS]

Diaw is a better all around player than Tyrus. He proved it the year we traded for him. Right now, Diaw has more tools in his all around game than Tyrus. Over time i think Tyrus will become a better player than Diaw is right now, and the margin of talent between them isnt that wide right now, but we are talking about right now.

HOWEVER Tyrus is more motivated and Diaw just doesnt give a shit. Tyrus wants to prove everyone who has written him off as a bust or a headcase. He was one of our few bright spots in the playoffs last year. He wants to be here and wants to win here. Diaw is the exact opposite. He doesnt care, he isnt interested in winning here, and he is not happy. His body language on the court shows it. Mind over matter, and Tyrus is going to be our starter because of that.

To fire back at an earlier comment, anyone who understands the game of basketball knows it is 50% talent 50% mental. Diaw has the 50% talent, but for us is giving about 10% mental. While Tyrus is only at about 40% talent, he has the full 50% mental. That makes Tyrus starting material and Diaw not.

[rsxnova]

Diaw is a better all around player than Tyrus. He proved it the year we traded for him. Right now, Diaw has more tools in his all around game than Tyrus. Over time i think Tyrus will become a better player than Diaw is right now, and the margin of talent between them isnt that wide right now, but we are talking about right now.

HOWEVER Tyrus is more motivated and Diaw just doesnt give a shit. Tyrus wants to prove everyone who has written him off as a bust or a headcase. He was one of our few bright spots in the playoffs last year. He wants to be here and wants to win here. Diaw is the exact opposite. He doesnt care, he isnt interested in winning here, and he is not happy. His body language on the court shows it. Mind over matter, and Tyrus is going to be our starter because of that.

To fire back at an earlier comment, anyone who understands the game of basketball knows it is 50% talent 50% mental. Diaw has the 50% talent, but for us is giving about 10% mental. While Tyrus is only at about 40% talent, he has the full 50% mental. That makes Tyrus starting material and Diaw not.


This is why i want TT starting at the end of the day.

[Fred Williamson]

We need Diaw because of his passing and playmaking ability for our offensively overchallenged team. We are a god awful 3point shooting team but with Diaw on the court, we can at least compensate it with his playmaking ability, which makes driving to the hoop easier for Crash, Jax and our point guards. Crash and Jax need Diaw's passing at the PF position and are only half as much effective with him off the court.

Now, put in Tyrus as our new starting power forward and we will have a bunch of overathletic guys in our starting unit who neither can shoot the ball, pass or create for their teammates. Therefore, opposing teams only have to seal up the zone to neutralize us.

Hate him or love him, but as long as we don't get a decent big man who can score and create space for others, or an allstar caliber point guard, we need to keep Diaw's fat ass.

[ALuhrs704]

Diaw plays zero defense? what were you watching last year dude? He wasn't great but solid at least, and did a great job against guys like Tim Duncan and Amare. Moreover, we were the best defensive team last year and you want to tell me our starting power forward "played zero D" ? Really? :facepalm:

because we have a bunch of morons sitting in our front office

one thing who are the guys "like" tim duncan and amare? i was watching the same boris who let point guards drive the lane and score layups right in iaw's face. theres a reason were trying to trade him now and thats cuz tyrus. if the bobcats didnt believe tyrus was better why would they pay him? but i guess boris didnt play zero d your right, 3% d makes a little more sense

[rsxnova]

We need Diaw because of his passing and playmaking ability for our offensively overchallenged team. We are a god awful 3point shooting team but with Diaw on the court, we can at least compensate it with his playmaking ability, which makes driving to the hoop easier for Crash, Jax and our point guards. Crash and Jax need Diaw's passing at the PF position and are only half as much effective with him off the court.

Now, put in Tyrus as our new starting power forward and we will have a bunch of overathletic guys in our starting unit who neither can shoot the ball, pass or create for their teammates. Therefore, opposing teams only have to seal up the zone to neutralize us.

Hate him or love him, but as long as we don't get a decent big man who can score and create space for others, or an allstar caliber point guard, we need to keep Diaw's fat ass.

Im just praying DJ/TT become a poor mans Nash/Amare.

[ALuhrs704]

We need Diaw because of his passing and playmaking ability for our offensively overchallenged team. We are a god awful 3point shooting team but with Diaw on the court, we can at least compensate it with his playmaking ability, which makes driving to the hoop easier for Crash, Jax and our point guards. Crash and Jax need Diaw's passing at the PF position and are only half as much effective with him off the court.

Now, put in Tyrus as our new starting power forward and we will have a bunch of overathletic guys in our starting unit who neither can shoot the ball, pass or create for their teammates. Therefore, opposing teams only have to seal up the zone to neutralize us.

Hate him or love him, but as long as we don't get a decent big man who can score and create space for others, or an allstar caliber point guard, we need to keep Diaw's fat ass.

gerald can shoot. jackson can shoot. but i see your point. i just feel like tyrus d, and athleticism is more worth the fact the diaw spreads out the D. i find it hard to believe we cant find someone to create things on our offense. jax can do it, and by trading diaw we can hopefully get some1 who does that @ point.

[spectre]

We need Diaw because of his passing and playmaking ability for our offensively overchallenged team. We are a god awful 3point shooting team but with Diaw on the court, we can at least compensate it with his playmaking ability, which makes driving to the hoop easier for Crash, Jax and our point guards. Crash and Jax need Diaw's passing at the PF position and are only half as much effective with him off the court.

Now, put in Tyrus as our new starting power forward and we will have a bunch of overathletic guys in our starting unit who neither can shoot the ball, pass or create for their teammates. Therefore, opposing teams only have to seal up the zone to neutralize us.

Hate him or love him, but as long as we don't get a decent big man who can score and create space for others, or an allstar caliber point guard, we need to keep Diaw's fat ass.

Exactly right.

DJ said himself (relayed via the Clips' announcers) the reason he struggled was that he was trying to get his mates involved more at the beginning of the season. The way he "turned it around" (meaning when he started to only be fair instead of God awful) was when he decided just to "play his own game".

We've lost Felton and replaced him with a guy whose not as comfortable setting his mates up. If you take Boris out of the lineup the one thing LB has worked hard to do...introducing more passing...would then rest solely on Jax's shoulders.

Dunno about you guys but that's scary to me.

[SWedd523]

In all fairness, Ray was really only ever an average playmaker. DJ and Shaun can more than compensate for him. The only issue is whether or not DIAW's ability to create can be covered.

If Diaw continues to show apathy/disdain for his conditioning, then his passing isn't going to offset his other shortcomings (it barely does so now). If he doesn't shape up, then I'll take Tyrus' better rebounding, defense, and tenacity and work out the rest later.

[spectre]

Livingston may very well compensate/even surpass the creation/playmaking that Felton brought...but IMO DJ needs to become better than he's ever shown as a pro to even come close.

I've seen bits of what he did at Texas...but I've never seen it in Charlotte. He CREATED baskets for guys in college by getting into the paint and being "sly" like Paul does. Maybe he's intimidated in the paint at the higher level, but I'd rather him try and fail then not do it at all.

[DY_nasty]

Diaw actually played well today in a upset against Spain.

[EC123]

Im just praying DJ/TT become a poor mans Nash/Amare.

No one will become anything without another PG. Augustin does not have anything special that would make him a starting NBA PG.

If the team goes into the season thinking they can make it through September with that lineup, some people are in for a rude awakening.

[EC123]

Diaw actually played well today in a upset against Spain.

It's time for him to go. Getting rid of Ajinca and Chandler was therapeutic.

If only they could move Augustin, Diaw, and Diop, they'd wash their hands of several mistakes.

Before mentioning Diop's contract, reconsider the word "only".

[Absinthe]

Diaw actually played well today in a upset against Spain.

In other news, a broken clock is right twice a day.

He needs to be traded. He's soft, doughy, and over the hill. Larry Brown's teams have always benefitted from strong point guard play where the point guard was the main distributor. If your team is using Diaw as the main facilitator then your team has problems.

[DY_nasty]

In other news, a broken clock is right twice a day.

He needs to be traded. He's soft, doughy, and over the hill. Larry Brown's teams have always benefitted from strong point guard play where the point guard was the main distributor. If your team is using Diaw as the main facilitator then your team has problems.
Completely agree.

Wouldn't mind Boris as a 6th man though.

[TheBeagle]

In other news, a broken clock is right twice a day.

He needs to be traded. He's soft, doughy, and over the hill. Larry Brown's teams have always benefitted from strong point guard play where the point guard was the main distributor. If your team is using Diaw as the main facilitator then your team has problems. I think it's been established that the team, as currently constructed, has problems mainly because of the reason you listed. Not knowing that much about Livingston post-injury, I'm most comfortable with Boris running the offense than anyone else. I mean, I love Jack, but he is a TO machine with his forced passes. So yeah, you're right, our team definitely has problems.