Kwame Brown

[Mustachio]

@STEIN_LINE_HQ

Kwame agrees to one-year minimum deal w/Bobcats to try to "create a new chapter," according to Bartelstein, after unhappy Wiz chapter w/MJ



may god have mercy on our souls.

[DCW]

no f......kn way

[ohara831]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5489854

Yep. MJ has officially lost his mind. Someone get the commitment papers to the Judge quickly. I hear we are about to trade Crash for Sean May!

[ohara831]

Wait. We already have 15 listed on our Roster. Have we traded someone, or are we officially going to cut Dampier before signing Brown?

[BIGCatBobcat]

http://www.ebaumsworld.com/video/watch/14413/

This is a hoax right? A hoax?

[ohara831]

http://www.ebaumsworld.com/video/watch/14413/

This is a hoax right? A hoax?

If it is, then ESPN is a part of it.

[murphman]

:facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:

[Fred Williamson]

you gotta be fucking kidding me. :facepalm:

[spectre]

:hysterical:

You know that boy had to be desperate to sign with us!

Eh...probably one of the better C's left (not saying much). LB will probably have to play him for lack of alternatives.

We're gonna be GREAT!

[Black]

Vet minimum big man...why not?

[Plowright]

LOL what a joke (i wish this was a joke :(

[mrfargo]

:paddle::paddle::paddle::paddle::paddle::paddle::p addle::paddle::paddle::paddle:

anyone else feel like taking a knee out??

:paddle::paddle::paddle::paddle::paddle::paddle::p addle::paddle::paddle::paddle:

[Chef]

Wait. We already have 15 listed on our Roster. Have we traded someone, or are we officially going to cut Dampier before signing Brown?

or we could be trading him. i imagine if we were cutting him we would try to resign for less.

[Mustachio]

Vet minimum big man...why not?


yeah totally. I mean its better than going into the season expecting Diop to contribute anything.

I was more or less disappointed that we have become the new Wizards.

[ohara831]

I think cutting Dampier and resigning him for much less is far more preferable to signing Kwame Brown. I dont get this at all, unless a Dampier trade is going down now. Signing Brown as a 3rd Center is OK then if Dampier is being traded for something of value other than a Center.

[Plowright]

I cant effing believe this, due you realise that the rest of the NBA are laughing at us right now???!!!

[Chef]

I think cutting Dampier and resigning him for much less is far more preferable to signing Kwame Brown. I dont get this at all, unless a Dampier trade is going down now. Signing Brown as a 3rd Center is OK then if Dampier is being traded for something of value other than a Center.

watch it be dampier for calderon, dampier and boris for tj ford and dunleavy (wouldn't mind this as much), dampier for baron davis or something else to not really improve our situation.

[DCW]

cmon man, they been laughing for quite awhile

[DCW]

they wont trade for a gimpy Calderon atleast i hope not

[Fred Williamson]

they wont trade for a gimpy Calderon atleast i hope not

oh hell yes we can. why can't we? I mean we traded for a gimpy Chandler

[Chef]

they wont trade for a gimpy Calderon atleast i hope not

never underestimate the stupidity of desperate front office

[DCW]

very true most of this offseason has been questionable

[Scottley Crue]

Vet minimum big man...why not?
Agreed. He'll be for depth and for that price, like you say, why not?

[Chef]

Agreed. He'll be for depth and for that price, like you say, why not?

unless we trade dampier then what?
start nazr and play him 20 min per game
start diop?

either way kwame is going to get significant burn. he is better than diop.
one of two things is guaranteed to happen either
a. we trade nazr and someone else for a pg or sg
b. we trade damp for the same

[SWedd523]

Stop overreacting so much guys. Put it into perspective: For the vet min, I'd gladly sign Kwame. He's not anywhere near what a #1 pick should be, but for the vet minimum, he's productive. And since when are we concerned with people laughing at us? Haven't we thrived as a team with a chip on our shoulder, looking to prove people wrong?

Also consider Dampier probably wouldn't accept a minimum contract so it makes sense to sign Kwame.




Nazr/Brown/Diop certainly looks much better than Nazr/Diop.

[Chef]

Stop overreacting so much guys. Put it into perspective: For the vet min, I'd gladly sign Kwame. He's not anywhere near what a #1 pick should be, but for the vet minimum, he's productive. And since when are we concerned with people laughing at us? Haven't we thrived as a team with a chip on our shoulder, looking to prove people wrong?

Also consider Dampier probably wouldn't accept a minimum contract so it makes sense to sign Kwame.




Nazr/Brown/Diop certainly looks much better than Nazr/Diop.

so we took on carroll and najera to save 13 mil when we could have kept tyson and let him expire this year? i highly doubt we just waive dampier

[Mustachio]

And since when are we concerned with people laughing at us? Haven't we thrived as a team with a chip on our shoulder, looking to prove people wrong?

.


Our definitions of "thrived" are obviously very very very different.






but the point of your post remains, not a big deal really.

[SWedd523]

so we took on carroll and najera to save 13 mil when we could have kept tyson and let him expire this year? i highly doubt we just waive dampier

What does waiving Dampier (or not) have anything to do with what I posted?

[Toocool]

Holy crap. Extremely surprised by this move, but then again he is better than Diop.

Mostly there for depth to backup Nazzy I assume, and possibly Dampier if he's coming back.

Can't really see him getting too many minutes, but I don't mind it as he's got the vet min and it's for depth. If he starts...then we got a problem.

Edit: Plus it could be worst...like Eddy Curry

[Chef]

What does waiving Dampier (or not) have anything to do with what I posted?

i assumed it since you said dampier probably won't resign for cheap and then nazr/brown/diop looks better than nazr/diop, meaning no dampier.

[SWedd523]

Our definitions of "thrived" are obviously very very very different.


When we're underdogs and supposed to play bad, we play very well. Look at our record against the Lakers/Cavs to see what I'm talking about, or remember last year when Beasley said they weren't worried about us because we aren't good--we came out and beat them, badly.

Adversity is good, it gives us a reason to fight.

[SWedd523]

i assumed it since you said dampier probably won't resign for cheap and then nazr/brown/diop looks better than nazr/diop, meaning no dampier.

Dampier is getting waived, regardless.

If we trade him, his new team will waive him. If we don't, we will. In either case, he isn't going to come to Charlotte for the minimum when he can likely sign somewhere else for more.

[Chef]

Dampier is getting waived, regardless.

If we trade him, his new team will waive him. If we don't, we will. In either case, he isn't going to come to Charlotte for the minimum when he can likely sign somewhere else for more.

ok. but would you agree that if we waive him, it was unwise to acquire him in the first place?

[Fred Williamson]

we are going to waive him. book it.

[G-Force]

Well a positive way to look at this is: Kwame Brown = Darko Milicic but 4x cheaper.

I guess K. Brown was the best available in FA.

[Chef]

we are going to waive him. book it.

so we take on $17 mil in salary to cut $13 mil and gave up $15 mil in expiring contracts for it? good god!

[SWedd523]

ok. but would you agree that if we waive him, it was unwise to acquire him in the first place?

Not necessarily. Acquiring him showed me that the FO is willing to take a gamble in order to significantly improve our roster. If bringing him in proves fruitful (getting a piece that makes us better), then I'm okay with Hammer/Eddie. If not, then I'm still okay with it because you can't really fault them for at least trying.

[CatNation]

not a horrible basketball move but crazy given the people involved. If you had asked me yesterday to name the player the nba with the least possible chance of ever being a Bobcat I would probably have picked Kwame with a 0.0000000% chance

[G-Force]

Not necessarily. Acquiring him showed me that the FO is willing to take a gamble in order to significantly improve our roster. If bringing him in proves fruitful (getting a piece that makes us better), then I'm okay with Hammer/Eddie. If not, then I'm still okay with it because you can't really fault them for at least trying.


I don't know if they really were trying to get better, but rather trying to get under the Luxury Tax. Either way, I hope there's more moves ahead.

[Proudiddy]

Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuucccccccccccccccccccccccc cccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccc cccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccc ccccccccck are we doing?!?!?!

[Fred Williamson]

Now is the time to waive UPS and bring Ammo back!

Do it MJ!
http://hellyeahmofo.ytmnd.com/

[CatNation]

I guess the Dampier waiving news should be any time now

[G-Force]

Does anyone know K.Brown conditioning this off-season? He is at least trying to get in shape? Or is he hanging out with Diaw?

[Fred Williamson]

hell, even if he put on 40pounds of muscle, dude can't play the game of basketball.

[ND22]

We would sign Kwame Brown. But honestly, this is a no risk signing. He probably won't give us much, but all LB wants our centers to do anyways is rebound and foul, which Kwame should be able to do.

[bing!]

I'm actually looking forward to seeing what this'll lead to. 10-11 is all about the chuckles.

[CatNation]

good defensive big, cant catch a pass, injury history. Hey people, we payed 11 million for that last year. Stop freaking out about a minimum signing :facepalm:

[The Prodigy]

We could at least get draft picks for Dampier right? Would that be any different than just releasing him? We would still get the salary relief, but at least we could get SOMETHING for him.

[ND22]

10-11 is all about the chuckles.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/TripleAInc/lb-mj.jpg

[spectre]

We could at least get draft picks for Dampier right? Would that be any different than just releasing him? We would still get the salary relief, but at least we could get SOMETHING for him.

In a trade unless the team is under the cap they'd have to send back at least 80% (+/- 100k).

We're obviously not paying the LT for this team, so I'd think a deal would have to be pretty outstanding for us to trade him somewhere.

I guess it could be a big deal...but it'd have to be REALLY big. something like Damp & Gana (around 19.5) and we'd still have to take in around 15-16, which would still leave us over the LT.

[BETCATS]

Primoz Brezec, Jahadi White, Jake Voskul, Linton Johnson, Andre Brown, Alexis Ajinca, Sean May, and now Kwame Brown.

The Charlotte Bobcats know how to spot quality bigmen.

[teej]

A few notes before Ohara commits suicide :p.

A) You can have as many players on the roster as you want, as long as you're down to 15 by the start of the regular season. McGuire, UPS and Sherron Collins are unguaranteed, so we can cut them all with no repercussions. Kwame is probably unguaranteed as well. And even then, you can still cut a guaranteed contract, you're just on the hook for the remaining guaranteed salary.

B) He's going to receive no more than 1.3 million this year. That's one-tenth of Tyson's contract, one-fifth of Gana's, and the team only pays him 860k-ish, David Stern pays the rest.

C) He's not going to start. He's probably not even the first guy off the bench. But he's a project to shut LB up (along with TT, Sherron and Livingston) and the worst that happens is he's worthless, same as Gana.

D) For those whining about the Damp trade, look at it this way. It allowed us to re-sign Tyrus, sign Livingston, and there's still the possibility he re-signs for the remaining 2.2 mil on the MLE. What did we lose? A wasted draft pick and a starting center that couldn't start.

E) It's a smart move, both on the computer and in real life. MJ wants redemption, so does Kwame, so both are motivated to make it work. Relax, people.

[Muttley]

A vet-minimum signing? Cool. Maybe he helps, maybe he doesn't. No reason to get worked up over it.

[CarolinaBlue23]

Kwame is a cheap big man and I don't think he was signed to save the franchise like he was in Washington. Kwame will get backup minutes and I expect a few nights he may even surprise us. He is in much better shape than Sean May ever was and we put up with him. :paddle:

[Chef]

A few notes before Ohara commits suicide :p.


D) For those whining about the Damp trade, look at it this way. It allowed us to re-sign Tyrus, sign Livingston, and there's still the possibility he re-signs for the remaining 2.2 mil on the MLE. What did we lose? A wasted draft pick and a starting center that couldn't start.


agree with everything except we took on carroll and najera to get damp. it was a bad move. unless we are explaining it by saying it was a gamble to land cp3 and melo and it didn't work out. if that is the case, i guess it is ok. shows a willingness to take risks to get better.

[spectre]

D) For those whining about the Damp trade, look at it this way. It allowed us to re-sign Tyrus, sign Livingston, and there's still the possibility he re-signs for the remaining 2.2 mil on the MLE. What did we lose? A wasted draft pick and a starting center that couldn't start.I'm going from memory so correct me if I'm wrong:

We were right at 50 million guaranteed before re-signing Tyrus & without Felton. Tyrus' hit is around 6-7, right? That would have left room to sign Livingston plus keep Tyson's big expiring and still stay under the LT.

Of course we'd be missing out on the greatness that is Carroll, Nagera & McGuire...

For me it boils down to what Swedd said...at least the FO took a chance to get extremely better. For that I won't knock them (too much).

[teej]

agree with everything except we took on carroll and najera to get damp. it was a bad move. unless we are explaining it by saying it was a gamble to land cp3 and melo and it didn't work out. if that is the case, i guess it is ok. shows a willingness to take risks to get better.

I'm sure it was, and Carroll and Najera are both solid bench guys, and good character guys, which this locker room could use every now and then, between Jack, DJ, Boris and Tyrus.

And look at it this way. We turned an injured center into Shaun Livingston, Matt Carroll, Eduardo Najera, Kwame Brown, and possibly Erick Dampier, or something valuable like Flip.

Consider Damp and Chandler a wash, we took on 6.65 mil for the lockout season, and 3.5 the year beyond. If Livingston, Brown, or someone else works out, then it was more than worth it.

[TattoodCats4life]

Okay, I have two things to say in regards to this... First of all a VET MINIMUM signing is the type of guy who just don't freaking matter. i.e. if a nice 3 for 5 trade goes down at the deadline, we can CUT even a fully guaranteed VET MINIMUM contract and only pay the balance of that contract, which would be like half a million at the deadline (the other half million roughly having been paid before the deadline). Bottom line is vet minimum salary guys take up a roster spot and some of MJ's pocket change. If Kwame has ONE and i am dead serious ONE game with a double double he more than earned his salary. Likewise if a guy goes down and he needs to start and play 30 for 5 games and we win ONE he earned his salary. Put your expectations where they belong, on the floor :)

This said, WTF and I do mean WTFWTF is wrong with Bonnell? He hasn't written anything himself since announcing we're going to camp in Wilmington,weeks ago. I hope he is on unpaid leave because he sure as shit don't deserve money this month.

[teej]

I'm going from memory so correct me if I'm wrong:

We were right at 50 million guaranteed before re-signing Tyrus & without Felton. Tyrus' hit is around 6-7, right? That would have left room to sign Livingston plus keep Tyson's big expiring and still stay under the LT.

Of course we'd be missing out on the greatness that is Carroll, Nagera & McGuire...

For me it boils down to what Swedd said...at least the FO took a chance to get extremely better. For that I won't knock them (too much).

The cap is 58, the tax is 68. Currently they're at about 79. Cutting Dampier leaves them with around 2 million in room below the tax, and 2.2 of the MLE.

I don't think there was any way to get Livingston, re-sign TT, and fill out the roster the way it was, since Tyson and Lexy is only about 5 million less than Damp/MC/Eduardo

[murphman]

The cap is 58, the tax is 68. Currently they're at about 79.

Actually the luxury tax is 70.3 million thus we could trade Damp for another player(s) of equal salary and trade Boris for a 2nd round draft pick and probably be right at or under the tax

[Fred Williamson]

I'm not even mad about this signing since it's only a minimum deal. But the fact that we just signed another center tells me that we are going to waive the DUST, leaving us with a bunch of scrubs we acquired (Najera,carroll, diop) on longterm contracts. And that's what I'm furious about.

[DY_nasty]

I'm not even mad about this signing since it's only a minimum deal. But the fact that we just signed another center tells me that we are going to waive the DUST, leaving us with a bunch of scrubs we acquired (Najera,carroll, diop) on longterm contracts. And that's what I'm furious about.
We were thin at center anyways. Ignoring Damp's situation, Nazr can not stay healthy at all. Kwame is better than Diop, its really just that simple.

Also, if you look at our division, we're going to be seeing plenty of good bigs all season long. If Kwame gives us nothing but 6 hard fouls a night, he'll easily be worth his contract.

[Katmandu]

Kwame Brown? A few weeks ago we were dreaming about Chris Paul and today we signed Kwame Brown?



Is it too early to order playoff tickets?

[spectre]

The cap is 58, the tax is 68. Currently they're at about 79. Cutting Dampier leaves them with around 2 million in room below the tax, and 2.2 of the MLE.

I don't think there was any way to get Livingston, re-sign TT, and fill out the roster the way it was, since Tyson and Lexy is only about 5 million less than Damp/MC/Eduardo

I didn't realize this forum only goes 14 pages back. The things prior to that...is it just deleted?

Anyway, going back I'm pretty confident that including Tyrus' QO put us right at what I thought would be the LT...around 66 million, and that's including Lex. It actually went up however, and like Murph said it's a little over 70 million.

I feel pretty sure we could have kept Tyson and signed Livingston while staying right at/under the LT.

[ziggy]

Well, maybe they'll add some polka dots to the uniforms since they are adding Kwame... Wait, what?!?!?

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w301/bobcatsplanet/kwame-a-day-cover-1.jpg

[ziggy]

I didn't realize this forum only goes 14 pages back. The things prior to that...is it just deleted?


Nothing is deleted. You can use these dropdowns to go all the way back to 2006 :biggrin:
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w301/bobcatsplanet/options.png

[SCBobcat]

I didn't realize this forum only goes 14 pages back. The things prior to that...is it just deleted?

Spectre, scroll down and change the range from 1 year to til beginning. The other day I went back and read some of Ziggy's earliest work on this site. Ziggy, thanks for sticking with it so we could find you and have this site. You da man.

Also, good cheap signing. Kwame also has some pretty good character to put hinself through what is just getting started.

[ammofan]

Has the world ended? Whats going on MJ? Did LB forget to take his pills today? OMGGGGGGGG

[ziggy]

Spectre, scroll down and change the range from 1 year to til beginning. The other day I went back and read some of Ziggy's earliest work on this site. Ziggy, thanks for sticking with it so we could find you and have this site. You da man.

Thanks, you wouldn't believe the heated discussions that we had about scrubs like Bernard Robinson and Melvin Ely :facepalm:

[dav7z]

Has the world ended? Whats going on MJ? Did LB forget to take his pills today? OMGGGGGGGG

This is a Brown Higgins move for sure . I love the move . This means we are going to use the dust chip or we would have just cut Damp and resigned him .


We seven milion over the cap after this signing . With tax hell being 70 milion . Denver is all so 7 milion over the cap


Denver is in Tax hell and with rumors of Mello leaving . And Smith on the block . Its a perfect time to be a facilitor for N Y . Or just trade with Denver.

Look for Diaw and Damp to be our trading chips.
Look for Lawson , Smith , Anderson , and Mellow as chips
Look for any one in NY except Amare as a chip.

Our only other trade pardner would have to be the pistons.
Sept 13th should be a big day this year.

Bottom line we going to trade Damp now for sure.

Damp has to have more value to Brown than K Brown?

[dav7z]

Thanks, you wouldn't believe the heated discussions that we had about scrubs like Bernard Robinson and Melvin Ely :facepalm:

I still have have my Felton is better than Paul shirt YOU WAS SELLING ?

[WAM9]

I have to say that I have never seen this type of reaction about a vet minimum signing.

What is all the issue with?

You guys don't even know who the F Dominic McGuire is and it didn't get this type of animosity.

Before anyone jumps off a bridge, remember, it's a vet min project. Call me crazy but I actually am very excited about this.

If he pans out to even a viable 15 minute player off the bench, then it is a great move. If he doesn't pan out at all, then there is absolutely nothing lost.

For everyone who is killing the FO over this, I completely disagree with you and think you need to step back, take a breath and reconsider. They haven't done anything wrong here at all. This is either a non-issue or it has upside. There is no downside to this, period.

[Chef]

I have to say that I have never seen this type of reaction about a vet minimum signing.

What is all the issue with?

You guys don't even know who the F Dominic McGuire is and it didn't get this type of animosity.

Before anyone jumps off a bridge, remember, it's a vet min project. Call me crazy but I actually am very excited about this.

If he pans out to even a viable 15 minute player off the bench, then it is a great move. If he doesn't pan out at all, then there is absolutely nothing lost.

For everyone who is killing the FO over this, I completely disagree with you and think you need to step back, take a breath and reconsider. They haven't done anything wrong here at all. This is either a non-issue or it has upside. There is no downside to this, period.

i have no problems with the kwame signing. i think it is actually a great move. my bigger issue/concern is what if anything we do with damp. i just hope we didn't take on extra money to not use the DUST chip.

[GoBobs]

I don't care who they sign as long as it isn't Jose C.

[Ampsportsduo]

Kwame Brown being the focus of undeserved criticism? Some things never change. A lot of the the reaction is pent up frustration with the way this team has "built on last year's playoff run."

I'm shocked there isn't a local news broadcast breaking in to tell us the news. I imagine part Dave Chappelle's reparations skit/part post-tornado trailer park coverage. "We're just gonna have to rebuild." Either way, we'll all remember where we were when the power in the East shifted.

[ohara831]

Hey, maybe we can get MJ to hire Fine Ham Biscuit as an asst coach now. You know, to train under LB and take over next year! Yeah! Who's on board? Woohoo! Let's get this train rolling now!

[ND22]

Seriously folks this isn't a dumb move at all. The only reason you guys are getting worked up is because Kwame Brown was MJ's bust. It could be worse, we could have signed Darko Milicic for $20 million dollars. If he works out, its a great move, if he doesn't, it means nothing and we lose nothing. Everyone just calm down, we actually got better from this move.

[BlockParty]

I posted this in the last week or two in the Best/Worst management thread. Little did I know we were going to solidify our lock on rocking the 2001 First Round NBA draft. Check out the stellar players that are (or have been) on the Bobcats roster. The Hornets hadn't even left the building yet and Charlotte still owns the 1st round draft 6 of the 28 players is over 21%....end sarcasm.

I am at least happy that the lowest draft pick on our roster (GW) is making more than the other two current rostered players (Kwame and Gana).


ROUND 1 / 2001 NBA DRAFT
1. WAS Kwame Brown, Glynn Academy HS (GA)
2. LAC Tyson Chandler, Dominguez HS (CA)
3. ATL Pau Gasol, Spain
4. CHI Eddy Curry, Thornwood HS (IL)
5. GSW Jason Richardson, Michigan State
6. MEM Shane Battier, Duke
7. NJN Eddie Griffin, Seton Hall
8. CLE DeSagana Diop, Oak Hill Academy (VA)
9. DET Rodney White, Charlotte
10. BOS Joe Johnson, Arkansas
11. BOS Kedrick Brown, Okaloosa-Walton CC
12. SEA Vladimir Radmanovic, Yugoslovia
13. HOU Richard Jefferson, Arizona
14. GSW Troy Murphy, Notre Dame
15. ORL Steven Hunter, DePaul
16. CHH Kirk Haston, Indiana
17. TOR Michael Bradley, Villanova
18. HOU Jason Collins, Stanford
19. POR Zach Randolph, Michigan State
20. CLE Brendan Haywood, North Carolina
21. BOS Joseph Forte, North Carolina
22. ORL Jeryl Sasser, Southern Methodist
23. HOU Brandon Armstrong, Pepperdine
24. UTA Raul Lopez, Spain
25. SAC Gerald Wallace, Alabama
26. PHI Samuel Dalembert, Seton Hall
27. MEM Jamaal Tinsley, Iowa State
28. SAS Tony Parker, France

Read more: http://www.insidehoops.com/nba-draft...#ixzz0x0j2cdRA (http://www.insidehoops.com/nba-draft/2001.shtml#ixzz0x0j2cdRA)

[dnbman]

I have to say that I have never seen this type of reaction about a vet minimum signing.

What is all the issue with?

You guys don't even know who the F Dominic McGuire is and it didn't get this type of animosity.

Before anyone jumps off a bridge, remember, it's a vet min project. Call me crazy but I actually am very excited about this.

If he pans out to even a viable 15 minute player off the bench, then it is a great move. If he doesn't pan out at all, then there is absolutely nothing lost.

For everyone who is killing the FO over this, I completely disagree with you and think you need to step back, take a breath and reconsider. They haven't done anything wrong here at all. This is either a non-issue or it has upside. There is no downside to this, period.

This is exactly how I feel. He's 28 years old and has to prove himself now. I feel pretty good about it, actually.

[BlockParty]

For looking to the future, hoopshype is a good starting point for our financial commitments. Obviously you need to add in Collins, Brown and Livingston's numbers (possibly because they are not guaranteed they are not included).

http://hoopshype.com/salaries/charlotte.htm

Just reinforces, Damp was all about the DUST chip, nothing whatsoever to do with him actually putting on the Bobcats jersey.

[LiquidWayno]

I'm thinking we should wave Dominic McGuire, and that's only 70 percent from not knowing who he is.

[Black]

Who is he?

[rsxnova]

Decent signing for vet min. I think we could have made worse moves.

[ammofan]

I'm thinking we should wave Dominic McGuire, and that's only 70 percent from not knowing who he is.

I honestly forgot he was on the team. Like for real lol

[teej]

I honestly forgot he was on the team. Like for real lol

How would you remember unless you knew who the fuck he was?

[rsxnova]

I bet Dom forgot he was on the team.

[mrtarheel]

I actually like the signing. Damp can be used as a facilitator in the NY Denver deal getting us Azebuke, Billups and maybe Nene.

[dav7z]

For looking to the future, hoopshype is a good starting point for our financial commitments. Obviously you need to add in Collins, Brown and Livingston's numbers (possibly because they are not guaranteed they are not included).

http://hoopshype.com/salaries/charlotte.htm

Just reinforces, Damp was all about the DUST chip, nothing whatsoever to do with him actually putting on the Bobcats jersey.

I f you right about GUARANTEEDED contracts. I compleately agree with the Dust chip . It makes sence for both sides

Lawson==1546,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Damp 13075
Anderson==3942,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Carroll 4300
Smith==6031
Balkman==1675
===13204.......................................... ....................... == 17375

Charlotte = 72990 = out= 17375 in13204=- 68819,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Denver = 77 ooo= out=13204 in 17375= 81171- The dust chip = 68096

This would put both teams out of tax hell.
If Livingston is Guarnteeded we would be at 72319, Whitch is a manageable number

Remember this saves Denver with the Luxery tax about 14 milion dollars in payrole. Im all so thinking Denver is ready to blow it up this season with expirings and Dust chips , To make a solid run next season for players like CP3 to go around Mellow

[bobcatniners09]

Decent signing for vet min. Only reason it's any news is because of MJ/Wizards.

[dvdbumpus]

At least we know who Kwame Brown is, unlike Dominic Mcguire.

Clean up on the boards, get us some putbacks and is only 28 with a vet minimum salary. At least we didn't sign Darko Milicic to the contract he has. LOL.

[TheBeagle]

Stop overreacting so much guys. Put it into perspective: For the vet min, I'd gladly sign Kwame. He's not anywhere near what a #1 pick should be, but for the vet minimum, he's productive. And since when are we concerned with people laughing at us? Haven't we thrived as a team with a chip on our shoulder, looking to prove people wrong?

Also consider Dampier probably wouldn't accept a minimum contract so it makes sense to sign Kwame.




Nazr/Brown/Diop certainly looks much better than Nazr/Diop. Right on, Swedd! Like you say, everybody's always laughed at us and our moves, and that is the only negative from this signing, so I don't see what the big fuss is. It makes us look funny in the media. Since when do we care about what the media percieves of us? When comparing his talent and salary to what exists at backup at 4 and 5, it's a solid signing.

Unless he and MJ have another squabble, or he turns out to be a douche, the only negative affect this has on the team is from a national image standpoint, and that's nothing new.

[Plowright]

Was very impressed with Kwame in hi interview on bobcats.com He sounded like hes got a really good head between those shoulders

[ammofan]

Was very impressed with Kwame in hi interview on bobcats.com He sounded like hes got a really good head between those shoulders

Me too man. Im thinking he's going to do good for us just based on his attitude.

[G Wuh Wuh Wuh Wallace]

It solidifies it......MJ is coming back again.:rim:

[dvdbumpus]

I'll say it again, as long as people don't have expectations as him being a #1 draft pick, he's a decent pickup for the veteran minimum. It could be worse!

On top of that, Greg Oden has taken the role of #1 draft bust :D

[rsxnova]

I hope he averages 5/6 for us. Maybe LB could have a positive impact on him.

[Toocool]

Glad that Brown said in his interview "I'm not looking for anything, I'm just looking to earn it."

Made me feel better about his signing, and that he's willing to go in and work hard in the gym. Hope he gets in shape ready for TC/Pre-season.

[ohara831]

If we can move Dampier in a trade to get something good as well as a little cap relief to stay under the LT, then considering how little we are paying for him, I am starting to come around on the signing. Now, just move Dampier and Diaw and I'll be happy.

[adam187]

Here's an old article from 2002 that I thought was a good read and shed a lot of light on Kwame:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&contentId=A14426-2002Apr19

[mj4life]

vet min. is not a bad deal, kwame does play d but has little to no offense, you could say he's a very poor man's okafor just a little bigger and more mobile. dampier will either be traded or cut so we don't lose much. who cares what the national media thinks, MJ &co are making efforts to get better but some of us need to understand that you have to make some deals to put you in place to do something big down the road(ala miami)

[EC123]

Great move.

With what the Bobcats have at the 3 and 4, and a teaching coach like Larry Brown, if kwame can't turn it around in Charlotte, he never will.

I feel like he's finally going to get it. If he does, it could at least give the Bobcats a serviceable 5.

[dvdbumpus]

vet min. is not a bad deal, kwame does play d but has little to no offense, you could say he's a very poor man's okafor just a little bigger and more mobile. dampier will either be traded or cut so we don't lose much. who cares what the national media thinks, MJ &co are making efforts to get better but some of us need to understand that you have to make some deals to put you in place to do something big down the road(ala miami)

I'll take the depth. 1 year, who cares? If he's a poor man's Okafor that is bigger and more mobile it works for me. When we mention offensively inept, the first person that comes to my mind is this: Tyson Chandler.

Brilliant!

[Absinthe]

We were thin at center anyways. Ignoring Damp's situation, Nazr can not stay healthy at all. Kwame is better than Diop, its really just that simple.

Also, if you look at our division, we're going to be seeing plenty of good bigs all season long. If Kwame gives us nothing but 6 hard fouls a night, he'll easily be worth his contract.

You can't be pleased with this off season. Yes, Felton is gone, and that is addition by subtraction, but the Bobcats have made pretty terrible moves. I don't really have a problem with Tyrus Thomas, but the Livingston and Kwame signings are suspect to say the least. I want Diaw off the team. The guy is soft and now he is doughy (too many baguettes, I suppose). My ideal scenario would be for the Cats to package both Dampier and Diaw and make a run at some talent. Otherwise, they've taken a pretty big step backwards.

[BlockParty]

You can't be pleased with this off season. Yes, Felton is gone, and that is addition by subtraction, but the Bobcats have made pretty terrible moves. I don't really have a problem with Tyrus Thomas, but the Livingston and Kwame signings are suspect to say the least. I want Diaw off the team. The guy is soft and now he is doughy (too many baguettes, I suppose). My ideal scenario would be for the Cats to package both Dampier and Diaw and make a run at some talent. Otherwise, they've taken a pretty big step backwards.

A year ago we hadn't signed Flip Murray, we thought Tyson Chandler was going to be a savior, we thought DJ would give Raymond a run for his money at PG, we had very little wiggle room under the cap (so not many options to improve ourselves without help) and Stephen Jackson wasn't on the roster.

This offseason isn't over yet.

We know Nazr, Kwame and help from TT and Diaw at the center position will match the mediocre output of the Center position last year. We don't expect anything out of Diop (so we won't be disappointed), Jackson will have a training camp with LB, we still have the flexibility that Dampier's dust chip will bring (either in an improved all-star player or Cap relief which provides for greater flexibility during the season as the trade deadline approaches).

:biggrin: It's ok to be upbeat about the team, most of the beat writers don't do adequate research before spitting out a couple sentences about why the Bobcats aren't any good. Doom and Gloom sells papers.

*orders more bandwagons for the flood that will be upon us in December.

[spectre]

Losing Felton was addition by subtraction. :facepalm:

I ran across this following quote from another source, done back in 2002. Everyone thinks of Jordan being the hard ass on Kwame (which he was at times)...but this might help that perception just a little bit...

Growing Pains - Washington Post (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/11/28/AR2006112800709_pf.html)


Brown couldn't do anything right. "He couldn't catch it, couldn't throw it, couldn't shoot it right," Jones says. In a series of three-on-three drills, the Wizards banged him -- hard, intentionally. "He got pretty beat around," Jones says. Center Jahidi White knocked him to the ground -- and fell on top of him. Brown lay there, stunned and bruised.

"Get up, you aren't hurt," White said.

Brown got up, aching, holding his back. His gray practice shirt was soaked through. Nobody had any sympathy for him. Not even Popeye Jones, the veteran who'd looked out for him the most. "It's time for you to grow up," Jones told him, coldly. "Now. Today. Stand on your own two feet."

Collins, still not satisfied, ordered a set of punishing sprints. Brown hesitated. "I hurt my back," he said.

Collins wheeled. Now it was his turn. "Stop being a baby and start growing up and playing, and earning the respect of your teammates," Collins shouted. "They're tired of you. They're tired of you getting knocked down, and laying around. They're tired of you holding your back. And holding your head. And holding your thumb. You're the one who has to be in that locker room, and meet them eye to eye."

Brown stared at his feet. "Do you want to play or not?" Collins snapped. No answer.

"Get off the court," Collins said disgustedly.

He sat in front of his locker trembling and crying. This is it, he thought, the league's not for me. I'm horrible. The coach thinks I'm horrible. The whole team thinks I'm horrible. I can't even play. Then he got on a treadmill and ran as hard he could, for almost an hour.

After a while, Jordan came into the locker room. He sat on a bench with Brown, and put his arm around him, and hugged him. "You're going to be all right," he said. For several minutes, he talked to Brown in soothing tones.

"Doug is tough, but in a few years you'll understand how good he is," he said. They still believed in him, Jordan affirmed. "We put our necks out for you," he said. "We think you have the ingredients to be a great power forward for a long, long time."

To Brown, it meant everything. "He showed me a side you never read about," Brown says. "The M.J. who comes over and picks you up and talks to you when you're down and out."

[BRNC]

I'm not sure (at his price) why anyone would consider Brown a negative hire...we need "big" depth and we get it at bargain basement prices...I'd certainly rather have him (as an option) behind Nazr than Diop...

[DY_nasty]

You can't be pleased with this off season. Yes, Felton is gone, and that is addition by subtraction, but the Bobcats have made pretty terrible moves. I don't really have a problem with Tyrus Thomas, but the Livingston and Kwame signings are suspect to say the least. I want Diaw off the team. The guy is soft and now he is doughy (too many baguettes, I suppose). My ideal scenario would be for the Cats to package both Dampier and Diaw and make a run at some talent. Otherwise, they've taken a pretty big step backwards.
I agree for the most part. Felton's love is completely ridiculous... I find it hilarious how some people love labeling him a winner when he never did anything here before and try to label his improvements this year as his own when Jackson taking pressure off of him was the main catalyst. I really don't even think that Felton is any better than Kyle Lowry at the moment, maybe a little worse.

Still, the offseason isn't bad. Once Diaw is gone, I'll be happy though. The team's been getting turned inside-out for the last 3 years some stability around a decent group of players should do wonders. I was all about blowing the team up before the draft, but I'd like to see if the team can actually develop some talent for once.

Again, its kind of funny how a lot of other people are flipping out and wanting to blow the team up now. I was all about that long before it was in style lol, and on top of that people were getting mad at me for it. Now that we actually make a sensible move in Kwame for 1 year/pennies, they want to flip out? Come on...

I don't see how the team got worse at all. Hopefully with Kwame around, LB will have a new punching bag and he can leave DJ alone. Just two years ago everyone was ready for DJ to replace Felton's forever mediocre ass anyways. There's no point in trading for TJ Ford essentially - financially, or otherwise. Tyson was never good for anything, all Kwame has to do is consistently fill the gap on the inside and he's a significant improvement. Tyrus and Gerald are damned good help defenders so we could play a bookcase at center and it'd get decent production.

The team hasn't got any worse at all this offseason. If anything they'll be better after getting a chance to mesh for once. 6th seed for the team is more than reasonable. We're still a 2nd round team at best though, not happy about that but I guess I'll just have to wait until the team naturally dissolves in two years.

[spectre]

So a player who's been forced to be a 1st or 2nd option and struggled...when given more tools (talent) and can then be the 3rd option and does better...is somehow a negative and it reflects no improvement? So much so that he's then "addition by subtraction"?

Ok...

We've debated this before:

http://www.bobcatsplanet.com/vb/showthread.php?t=10902&highlight=felton&page=4

(thanks to the guys/Zig on searching!)

...and I REALLY don't want to debate it again as he's no longer a Bobcat, and this team is really all I care to concern myself with.

Personally I hope "everyone" was right and DJ is really Steve Nash waiting to break out.

Back to Kwame...I don't really see anyone freaking out over the signing! Most (myself included) thought it was ironic that Jordan would be bringing him back due to their history...and that was at first thought. A "bad" signing though? How can a vet min be a "bad" signing?

[teej]

How can a vet min be a "bad" signing?

See: McInnis, Jeff.

[DY_nasty]

So a player who's been forced to be a 1st or 2nd option and struggled...when given more tools (talent) and can then be the 3rd option and does better...is somehow a negative and it reflects no improvement? So much so that he's then "addition by subtraction"?

Ok...

We've debated this before:

http://www.bobcatsplanet.com/vb/showthread.php?t=10902&highlight=felton&page=4

(thanks to the guys/Zig on searching!)

...and I REALLY don't want to debate it again as he's no longer a Bobcat, and this team is really all I care to concern myself with.

Personally I hope "everyone" was right and DJ is really Steve Nash waiting to break out.

Back to Kwame...I don't really see anyone freaking out over the signing! Most (myself included) thought it was ironic that Jordan would be bringing him back due to their history...and that was at first thought. A "bad" signing though? How can a vet min be a "bad" signing?
Thats the thing, Felton didn't do that much better at all... No one said that DJ was Nash 2.0, but just a few seasons ago people were more than ready to give him the starting job over Felton.

You don't see people freaking out over the signing? Okay... this thread wouldn't be 10 pages long if that were the case. I'm in agreement though, there's nothing bad about this deal. And given what we need out of the center position and the FA available, he was the best choice.

[dvdbumpus]

See: McInnis, Jeff.

That was more the fault of Ham Biscuit rather than Mcinnis. Mcinnis for 5 - 10 minutes wasn't as bad as him being 30 minutes a game. UGH. That was the worst thing in the world.

Oh and BTW :fhb::fhb::fhb::fhb::fhb::fhb::fhb::fhb:

[Veteran_Picksetter]

Thats the thing, Felton didn't do that much better at all... No one said that DJ was Nash 2.0, but just a few seasons ago people were more than ready to give him the starting job over Felton.



Gimme a break. Look at the solid improvement in Felton's shooting alone. And I guess as the starting PG he can't take ANY credit for a 44-win season, huh?

Fans were ready to give DJ the starting job because fans are suckers for what is NEW and HYPED. When the league figured DJ out and he couldn't counter because of his severe physical limitations, we got a taste of reality. DJ's only hope is to play on a run-and-gun team or to play next to a PG with SG size. Maybe that will happen here someday.

And besides, DJ can partially thank playing next to Felton for his solid rookie year. Left on his own to be PG for a Larry Brown offense, he struggled.

[Veteran_Picksetter]

So a player who's been forced to be a 1st or 2nd option and struggled...when given more tools (talent) and can then be the 3rd option and does better...is somehow a negative and it reflects no improvement? So much so that he's then "addition by subtraction"?

Ok...

We've debated this before:

http://www.bobcatsplanet.com/vb/showthread.php?t=10902&highlight=felton&page=4

(thanks to the guys/Zig on searching!)

...and I REALLY don't want to debate it again as he's no longer a Bobcat, and this team is really all I care to concern myself with.



Amen. On point.

[Toocool]

Everyone jumps on bandwagons and jumps off bandwagons. It's a fact of life. Alotta Bobcats fans do that too. They see a young guy play well, they instantly want them to start over the other.

McInnis...a dark dark period of time that one. I'm pretty sure Brown won't be chucked in for 30+ minutes, maybe the UPS Brown if Gdub gets injured.

[DY_nasty]

Gimme a break. Look at the solid improvement in Felton's shooting alone. And I guess as the starting PG he can't take ANY credit for a 44-win season, huh?

Fans were ready to give DJ the starting job because fans are suckers for what is NEW and HYPED. When the league figured DJ out and he couldn't counter because of his severe physical limitations, we got a taste of reality. DJ's only hope is to play on a run-and-gun team or to play next to a PG with SG size. Maybe that will happen here someday.

And besides, DJ can partially thank playing next to Felton for his solid rookie year. Left on his own to be PG for a Larry Brown offense, he struggled.
Felton's shooting % went up because all of a sudden he wasn't a primary scoring option anymore. We already covered that. Also, he were weren't winning anything until Jackson came in and *gasp* all of a sudden we're in the playoffs. I don't know why Felton keeps getting credit for that... Larry Brown did his thing, Crash put up an all-star season, Jackson positions himself as arguably the 5th best shooting guard in the league - but somehow Felton gets a sticker too like he did something special? No.

And DJ as a starter has proved plenty of times before that he's capable of being just as good as Ray. Hopefully, Larry Brown is done messing with his head so that he can actually play a full 10 seconds without looking to the sideline for approval.

[spectre]

Felton's shooting % went up because all of a sudden he wasn't a primary scoring option anymore. We already covered that. Also, he were weren't winning anything until Jackson came in and *gasp* all of a sudden we're in the playoffs. I don't know why Felton keeps getting credit for that... Larry Brown did his thing, Crash put up an all-star season, Jackson positions himself as arguably the 5th best shooting guard in the league - but somehow Felton gets a sticker too like he did something special? No.

And DJ as a starter has proved plenty of times before that he's capable of being just as good as Ray. Hopefully, Larry Brown is done messing with his head so that he can actually play a full 10 seconds without looking to the sideline for approval.

It's not a negative to be a good 3rd option! You kind of need that y'know?

Is Crash less of an all star because Jax came to town? Does he get no credit in being a 2nd option? Why does Jax get all the credit? If you take away Felton & Crash last season does HE do it all on his own?

5 players on the court at the same time.

We went thru this in that thread I referenced earlier where I showed how he improved. If you really want to debate this why not hit those points in that thread instead of in this Kwame thread?

Most likely this one is so long because there's been nothing else to talk about? I'm not going back thru it but I've read all and I just don't remember "everyone" freaking out.

And FWIW...we took a poll at the beginning of last season about who starts and "everyone" didn't show up for the poll. Felton won.

[DY_nasty]

It's not a negative to be a good 3rd option! You kind of need that y'know?

Is Crash less of an all star because Jax came to town? Does he get no credit in being a 2nd option? Why does Jax get all the credit? If you take away Felton & Crash last season does HE do it all on his own?

5 players on the court at the same time.

We went thru this in that thread I referenced earlier where I showed how he improved. If you really want to debate this why not hit those points in that thread instead of in this Kwame thread?

Most likely this one is so long because there's been nothing else to talk about? I'm not going back thru it but I've read all and I just don't remember "everyone" freaking out.

And FWIW...we took a poll at the beginning of last season about who starts and "everyone" didn't show up for the poll. Felton won.
nononono, you misunderstood me right there at the bolded. I was saying that 3 people (Larry Brown, Wallace, and Jackson) had more to do with the turnaround than anyone else - Felton being included in that group doesn't make sense. Thats all.

I'm looking forward to seeing Kwame as the new punching bag this season though.

[spectre]

nononono, you misunderstood me right there at the bolded. I was saying that 3 people (Larry Brown, Wallace, and Jackson) had more to do with the turnaround than anyone else - Felton being included in that group doesn't make sense. Thats all.

I'm looking forward to seeing Kwame as the new punching bag this season though.

I won't dispute that at all (heh, even Kwame being the new punching bag part!). But because those 3 had more to do with the turnaround doesn't mean Felton didn't contribute and contribute well. He could have easily been just as disappointing as a 3rd option as a 1st or 2nd. Instead, he improved his shooting (biggest knock prior), lowered his TOs and became a strong defender...playoffs notwithstanding.

You can do one helluva lot worse in a 3rd option...which I'm hoping like everything we don't experience firsthand.

[DY_nasty]

I won't dispute that at all (heh, even Kwame being the new punching bag part!). But because those 3 had more to do with the turnaround doesn't mean Felton didn't contribute and contribute well. He could have easily been just as disappointing as a 3rd option as a 1st or 2nd. Instead, he improved his shooting (biggest knock prior), lowered his TOs and became a strong defender...playoffs notwithstanding.

You can do one helluva lot worse in a 3rd option...which I'm hoping like everything we don't experience firsthand.
He did play better, but its not hard to find a mediocre 3rd option on a team that barely cracks .500.

Honestly though, I wouldn't even mind Kwame starting for a couple of weeks so long as we never pass him the ball.

[ziggy]

I'm looking forward to seeing Kwame as the new punching bag this season though.

If Boris remains on the team, I think he'll easily trump Kwame as the punching bag this season

[G Wuh Wuh Wuh Wallace]

If Boris remains on the team, I think he'll easily trump Kwame as the punching bag this season

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Knzzondy398&feature=related

[spectre]

He did play better, but its not hard to find a mediocre 3rd option on a team that barely cracks .500.

Hopefully I won't be bringing this up about 1 month into the season. But at any rate...if the new 3rd option doesn't easily surpass Felton then does that player fall under the category "addition by subtraction" as well?

Zig you're right. Boris will easily be the kicking boy this year if he's still on the team.

[DY_nasty]

Hopefully I won't be bringing this up about 1 month into the season. But at any rate...if the new 3rd option doesn't easily surpass Felton then does that player fall under the category "addition by subtraction" as well?

Zig you're right. Boris will easily be the kicking boy this year if he's still on the team.
He doesn't even have to easily surpass him. As long as he's not getting paid 5+ mil, not going on his 5th or 6th year, and is showing signs of improvement - the new 3rd option is an upgrade and a sign of growth in the franchise... Even then, I'm not even sure Felton could be called 3rd option with Boris on the team too. LB clearly preferred Diaw making decisions with the ball over Felton.

I'd still like another big though.

[BIGCatBobcat]

the whole thing here is it's Michael Jordan and Kwame Brown. If it was just a former #1 pick signing for a minimum salary, whatever. But all the water under that bridge is still pretty hefty. It's a big deal because of the story. Is Jordan trying to apologize? Is he trying to redeem this kid? It's a human interest story not basketball or business! Have fun with it!

[BlockParty]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Knzzondy398&feature=related


At the .20 mark, it's the cheater cheater pumkin eater Ref that used to bet on the games....and call fouls (or not call them) to influence the outcome

[spectre]

He doesn't even have to easily surpass him. As long as he's not getting paid 5+ mil, not going on his 5th or 6th year, and is showing signs of improvement - the new 3rd option is an upgrade and a sign of growth in the franchise... Even then, I'm not even sure Felton could be called 3rd option with Boris on the team too. LB clearly preferred Diaw making decisions with the ball over Felton.

I'd still like another big though.

When a player is on the court the money nor the experience mean squat...so I don't agree with your idea of "upgrade". I'm much more concerned with not hurting the squad on defense and helping to score/facilitate on offense during games. During the LB era we're in it to win.

We've certainly been looking to deal for a PG...and none of them are young with plenty of room for growth. We might not be able to, but IMO we're going to try until all options are exhausted.

LB uses everyone as an option except for his Cs. He likes versatility.

[DY_nasty]

When a player is on the court the money nor the experience mean squat...so I don't agree with your idea of "upgrade". I'm much more concerned with not hurting the squad on defense and helping to score/facilitate on offense during games. During the LB era we're in it to win.

We've certainly been looking to deal for a PG...and none of them are young with plenty of room for growth. We might not be able to, but IMO we're going to try until all options are exhausted.

LB uses everyone as an option except for his Cs. He likes versatility.
Felton has experience at what exactly? He's been mediocre and shown marginal improvement at best since he's been in the NBA - He's supposed to get brownie points for just sticking around on a sub .500 team and talking about how much of a leader he is?

And his defense is overrated. The new generation of young, quick guards torch him. Also, Ray was never more removed from offensive decision making at any point in his career than he was this past season. Somehow, it was also one of his most efficient as well.

We've already got a pretty good young point with room for growth in DJ, but because the franchise simply can't grasp the concept of player development (outside the fluke of Wallace) he's probably going to fail just like all the other draft picks.

[Toocool]

Felton has experience at what exactly? He's been mediocre and shown marginal improvement at best since he's been in the NBA - He's supposed to get brownie points for just sticking around on a sub .500 team and talking about how much of a leader he is?

And his defense is overrated. The new generation of young, quick guards torch him. Also, Ray was never more removed from offensive decision making at any point in his career than he was this past season. Somehow, it was also one of his most efficient as well.

We've already got a pretty good young point with room for growth in DJ, but because the franchise simply can't grasp the concept of player development (outside the fluke of Wallace) he's probably going to fail just like all the other draft picks.

Haters gonna hate. Felton is by no means mediocre. He was solid, slightly above average but he was by no means mediocre. He wasn't suited for a half court setting, and would be more prominent in a run-and-gun setting where he can use his speed. He stuck around because he wanted to because he loved his team, and he busted his ass on that court. He played through injuries that would have taken down a weaker man but he hopped up and continued to play. And all you can do is talk crap and criticize him. Shame on you. And for leadership? You try breaking teeth from KG and try to get back on that court to play so you can support your team. You try playing through a busted ankle an entire game at the pace they play. Felton led by example through hard work and toughness. You cannot ever question is leadership.

Why don't you try playing on a mediocre team with no low post presence, the only real scorer you have is Crash and having to carry as the 2nd option on offense when you're more suited to a 3rd-4th option. You try averaging 14/6 with coaches such as the FHB who PLAY you BEHIND frickin Jeff "Bench my ass please" McInnis and scrubs such as Primoz Brezec and Vlad Rad.

Ray's defense was great. It wasn't jaw-breaking or anything like that but he was damn solid. He got dominated in the playoffs, everyone knows that but for most of the season his defense was solid. I didn't want to give up Felton for nothing, but we had to. We can't move on into the future if we keep thinking of of the past. And you need to stop with the hating of Felton.

[DY_nasty]

Haters gonna hate. Felton is by no means mediocre. He was solid, slightly above average but he was by no means mediocre. He wasn't suited for a half court setting, and would be more prominent in a run-and-gun setting where he can use his speed. He stuck around because he wanted to because he loved his team, and he busted his ass on that court. He played through injuries that would have taken down a weaker man but he hopped up and continued to play. And all you can do is talk crap and criticize him. Shame on you. And for leadership? You try breaking teeth from KG and try to get back on that court to play so you can support your team. You try playing through a busted ankle an entire game at the pace they play. Felton led by example through hard work and toughness. You cannot ever question is leadership.

Why don't you try playing on a mediocre team with no low post presence, the only real scorer you have is Crash and having to carry as the 2nd option on offense when you're more suited to a 3rd-4th option. You try averaging 14/6 with coaches such as the FHB who PLAY you BEHIND frickin Jeff "Bench my ass please" McInnis and scrubs such as Primoz Brezec and Vlad Rad.

Ray's defense was great. It wasn't jaw-breaking or anything like that but he was damn solid. He got dominated in the playoffs, everyone knows that but for most of the season his defense was solid. I didn't want to give up Felton for nothing, but we had to. We can't move on into the future if we keep thinking of of the past. And you need to stop with the hating of Felton.I'm only responding at this point but what the hell... we're all bored.

Look at Kevin Martin - now that he's finally on a good team, we all know exactly how much of an average player he is. Back when he was surrounded by scrubs in Sacramento, he was lighting it up. His coaches were just as retarded as Sam Vincent. For the longest time people overrated him because of his play on such a poor roster. Long story short, above average players on a terrible team put up really good numbers. Now that Martin is finally on a good team, he's maybe even as low as the 5th option and he's getting his weaknesses exposed daily.

Now lets stretch that to Felton....

Almost an equally bad team at some points, but even then Felton couldn't put up any real good numbers. Ironically, Felton's numbers were arguably the best when he had the smallest role. That doesn't make sense. Why? Well obviously because he's not as good. Busting your ass on the court and being a tough guy is great and all, but it doesn't mean you're actually a good player. And again - what did Felton 'lead' us to? Plenty of other players around the league have done more with much less.

(Note: Felton got torched by every quick, small pg in the league before the Orlando series - it wasn't just referring to that)

Also, I'm not hating on Felton. I'm just not going to keep making excuses for the guy who's had 4 seasons of people doing it already. There's got to be some balance here.... for every 5 players that jump on Derrick Brown's nuts, there should be at least one guy to say "lol athletic, long sf that can't shoot #4801", "Felton - leader (of what?)", "Larry 'Acie' Brown", and "Yeah - Jackson is the MAIN reason we made the playoffs".

[Toocool]

I'm only responding at this point but what the hell... we're all bored.

Look at Kevin Martin - now that he's finally on a good team, we all know exactly how much of an average player he is. Back when he was surrounded by scrubs in Sacramento, he was lighting it up. His coaches were just as retarded as Sam Vincent. For the longest time people overrated him because of his play on such a poor roster. Long story short, above average players on a terrible team put up really good numbers. Now that Martin is finally on a good team, he's maybe even as low as the 5th option and he's getting his weaknesses exposed daily.

Now lets stretch that to Felton....

Almost an equally bad team at some points, but even then Felton couldn't put up any real good numbers. Ironically, Felton's numbers were arguably the best when he had the smallest role. That doesn't make sense. Why? Well obviously because he's not as good. Busting your ass on the court and being a tough guy is great and all, but it doesn't mean you're actually a good player. And again - what did Felton 'lead' us to? Plenty of other players around the league have done more with much less.

(Note: Felton got torched by every quick, small pg in the league before the Orlando series - it wasn't just referring to that)

Also, I'm not hating on Felton. I'm just not going to keep making excuses for the guy who's had 4 seasons of people doing it already. There's got to be some balance here.... for every 5 players that jump on Derrick Brown's nuts, there should be at least one guy to say "lol athletic, long sf that can't shoot #4801", "Felton - leader (of what?)", "Larry 'Acie' Brown", and "Yeah - Jackson is the MAIN reason we made the playoffs".

You wanna gargle with gasoline, floss with barbed wire eh boy? No idea why I just wrote that, interesting quote from a movie though...

Why are you comparing Kev Mart and Felton? Both have completely different roles and a different skill-set. You can't just compare a SG to a PG, as Felton was more of a distributer, Kev was the no.1 option of offense. Plus Kev is a scorer, Felton isn't that much of a scorer.

I don't see why you say that about Kev Mart. He put up even bigger scoring numbers on the Rockets team than on the Kings, though that'll diminish with Yao coming back.

I think my post doesn't really make sense, maybe I'll go over it at a much better hour (2 am atm) and write something better. But for now, this.

[DY_nasty]

You wanna gargle with gasoline, floss with barbed wire eh boy? No idea why I just wrote that, interesting quote from a movie though...

Why are you comparing Kev Mart and Felton? Both have completely different roles and a different skill-set. You can't just compare a SG to a PG, as Felton was more of a distributer, Kev was the no.1 option of offense. Plus Kev is a scorer, Felton isn't that much of a scorer.

I don't see why you say that about Kev Mart. He put up even bigger scoring numbers on the Rockets team than on the Kings, though that'll diminish with Yao coming back.

I think my post doesn't really make sense, maybe I'll go over it at a much better hour (2 am atm) and write something better. But for now, this.
The Kevin Martin/Felton analogy isn't one based on skills or anything like that. Its a basic comparison showing that how a guy who's no more than an average player on a good team puts up much, much better numbers on a team with a lower talent level.

And no, Kevin Martin did not put up bigger numbers on the Rockets - his role got diminished to the point where many in the organization feel that he can be replaced by Chase Budinger.

My whole point is that many average players shine because of the lack of talent on their team, but when they move on to a better team or their team improves, their numbers either don't improve as well or their production falls off and that player's value becomes more and more questionable.

[WarioVsMooChicken]

I'm not part of this debate, so pardon me, but Kevin Martin averaged 1.5 more points and shot .037% better while on the Rockets this year compared to the Kings. I don't see how a player who plays 35 minutes a game had his role "diminished".

I agree that what you said is often the case, but it isn't always...And Kevin Martin is not that good of an example.

[spectre]

My whole point is that many average players shine because of the lack of talent on their team, but when they move on to a better team or their team improves, their numbers either don't improve as well or their production falls off and that player's value becomes more and more questionable.

We added talent, he played a more diminished role and his numbers did get better. After we got some stability he showed he's a pretty decent 3rd option that normally doesn't hurt you on defense. Who knows how much more affective he'd have been if we had a post player.

Just because he didn't succeed as a 1st or 2nd option doesn't mean he didn't have a positive affect on our team...and he most assuredly did.

He did well enough to get Walsh to believe in him for a couple years anyway.

[teej]

He did well enough to get Walsh to believe in him for a couple years anyway.

The same guy who traded the #8 overall pick and an unprotected #1 to remove 6 million in salary for a player he never got...

[spectre]

The same guy who traded the #8 overall pick and an unprotected #1 to remove 6 million in salary for a player he never got...

...who also has two guys at a wedding publicly planning on meeting up there in a year or two.

They'd been telling the base for years they were going after LBJ. They made that move to get 2 max guys (which LBJ was saying was a requirement).

He pretty much had no choice.

Walsh is a topnotch GM.

[teej]

...who also has two guys at a wedding publicly planning on meeting up there in a year or two.

They'd been telling the base for years they were going after LBJ. They made that move to get 2 max guys (which LBJ was saying was a requirement).

He pretty much had no choice.

Walsh is a topnotch GM.

I don't care how good of a GM you are, that specific trade was horrid. I'm sure there were other teams that wouldn't have raped them like that.

[DY_nasty]

...who also has two guys at a wedding publicly planning on meeting up there in a year or two.

They'd been telling the base for years they were going after LBJ. They made that move to get 2 max guys (which LBJ was saying was a requirement).

He pretty much had no choice.

Walsh is a topnotch GM.
Walsh paid Felton 7+ mil - he was bidding against nobody. He signed Amare, but he only accomplished it by overbidding to the point where no other team wanted any part of it.

Walsh did an great job of getting the Knicks' books back in order, but he royally screwed up banking on 2010. He never needed to trade his picks away for McGrady and that expiring.

[Toocool]

The Kevin Martin/Felton analogy isn't one based on skills or anything like that. Its a basic comparison showing that how a guy who's no more than an average player on a good team puts up much, much better numbers on a team with a lower talent level.

And no, Kevin Martin did not put up bigger numbers on the Rockets - his role got diminished to the point where many in the organization feel that he can be replaced by Chase Budinger.

My whole point is that many average players shine because of the lack of talent on their team, but when they move on to a better team or their team improves, their numbers either don't improve as well or their production falls off and that player's value becomes more and more questionable.

Wrong. Kev Mart put up better numbers on the Rockets than he did in the Kings solely from a scoring point of view. He put up around roughly the same numbers on the Rockets except for a diminished rebounding per game average.

I still disagree your point. Only a very small number of average players shine, and they are in certain circumstances. It is very situational the point you are trying to make, and it also completely dependant on what position you play, and your role. You have to take everything into account, personnel, your position and what role you play.

[DY_nasty]

Wrong. Kev Mart put up better numbers on the Rockets than he did in the Kings solely from a scoring point of view. He put up around roughly the same numbers on the Rockets except for a diminished rebounding per game average.

I still disagree your point. Only a very small number of average players shine, and they are in certain circumstances. It is very situational the point you are trying to make, and it also completely dependant on what position you play, and your role. You have to take everything into account, personnel, your position and what role you play.
Kevin Martin spent the first few weeks of this year on the injured list. His scoring went down from the previous year. He wasn't getting to the line as much and his 3pt shooting fell off. And his defense? you thought it was bad before? l.o.l. he's an embarrassment every possession.

His ppg dropped, but thats not all. His value on the court dropped off. He still got his buckets, but Adelman didn't even want him on the court.

All the smaller circumstances really aren't even that important to the comparison. When he was on a horrible team, he was seen as a better player than he really was. The same can be said for Felton, except the fact that Felton wasn't even that good to begin with and instead of having a coach that openly detests his presence on the court like Adelman, he has a coach that removes him making decisions with the ball.

[Chef]

Walsh paid Felton 7+ mil - he was bidding against nobody. He signed Amare, but he only accomplished it by overbidding to the point where no other team wanted any part of it.


he did have to out-bid us. he had to offer enough so that ray would not resign with us for 5 years at 25-30mil

[DY_nasty]

he did have to out-bid us. he had to offer enough so that ray would not resign with us for 5 years at 25-30mil
We never gave Ray an offer.

[spectre]

I'm glad we're not on the hook for him at 6 years 8.5 per, but unless we upgrade the PG spot (which I think we'll make every effort to do so) the team will miss him on the court.

"Addition by subtraction" is pure bullshit.

[BRNC]

...up to this point we've only "subtracted" with Ray walking...tough defender who comes to play every night...no PG on the roster (at this point) has shown anything close to Rays' all-around game and ability to get better each year...

Was Ray the answer...not really for the long term...but IMO he was the best PG we had...and is better than the guys we currently have so what did we gain by addition?

[Toocool]

Kevin Martin spent the first few weeks of this year on the injured list. His scoring went down from the previous year. He wasn't getting to the line as much and his 3pt shooting fell off. And his defense? you thought it was bad before? l.o.l. he's an embarrassment every possession.

His ppg dropped, but thats not all. His value on the court dropped off. He still got his buckets, but Adelman didn't even want him on the court.

All the smaller circumstances really aren't even that important to the comparison. When he was on a horrible team, he was seen as a better player than he really was. The same can be said for Felton, except the fact that Felton wasn't even that good to begin with and instead of having a coach that openly detests his presence on the court like Adelman, he has a coach that removes him making decisions with the ball.

Where did we bring defense into this? I have made no notion of defense, only of his rebounding stat. His scoring went down due to Evans scoring 20 ppg? Also because Adelman didn't think Martin and Evans meshed well together. Of course he would of gotten rid of Evans instead of Martin, as Evans has far more upside at this point.

All the smaller circumstances are important and I still stand by it. It's a completely different situation, Felton and Martin.

[SWedd523]

Martin is just about the perfect complement of a guy like Reke. He can spot up for the outside shot wen Reke drives the lane, or he can break his man down when Reke is demanding doubles.

[DY_nasty]

Where did we bring defense into this? I have made no notion of defense, only of his rebounding stat. His scoring went down due to Evans scoring 20 ppg? Also because Adelman didn't think Martin and Evans meshed well together. Of course he would of gotten rid of Evans instead of Martin, as Evans has far more upside at this point.

All the smaller circumstances are important and I still stand by it. It's a completely different situation, Felton and Martin.
I think you're missing my point entirely...

I'm not talking specifically about each player, just how their value diminishes as their surroundings improve.

[teej]

I'm not talking specifically about each player, just how their value diminishes as their surroundings improve.

erm...Pau Gasol?

[DY_nasty]

erm...Pau Gasol?
I never said it was the norm or anything like that. I said before - certain players. As Memphis' talent increased, Pau's numbers never went down.

Better examples would be Jamal Crawford and Jason Terry.

Even then, all Pau has shown in LA is that he's been able to be a great #2 guy. He did alright in Memphis as the go to guy and leader, but its pretty clear that he's much more successful and comfortable playing off of Kobe.

[teej]

I never said it was the norm or anything like that. I said before - certain players. As Memphis' talent increased, Pau's numbers never went down.

Better examples would be Jamal Crawford and Jason Terry.

Even then, all Pau has shown in LA is that he's been able to be a great #2 guy. He did alright in Memphis as the go to guy and leader, but its pretty clear that he's much more successful and comfortable playing off of Kobe.

A) Pau is one of the top 5 big men in the League. But every big man needs a little man to win.

B) Crawford and Terry are both 6th Men of the Year. I'd hardly call that lowering stats.

C) Your point in general is true, but it's hardly a rule. There's no way to point and say "This guy did worse." Their talent or star level doesn't change, just their usage.

[DY_nasty]

A) Pau is one of the top 5 big men in the League. But every big man needs a little man to win.

B) Crawford and Terry are both 6th Men of the Year. I'd hardly call that lowering stats.

C) Your point in general is true, but it's hardly a rule. There's no way to point and say "This guy did worse." Their talent or star level doesn't change, just their usage.
I'm not the one who brought up Pau at all...

Crawford and Terry were both 6th men of the year after they put up big numbers as starters on terrible teams. Atlanta's teams were crap with Terry and it even took Terry a while to adjust to 'winning' once he got to Dallas.

And yeah, its not a rule, but it generally is very common for guys who put up big numbers on crappy teams and continue to put up big numbers as their teams don't get any better. Pau at least took his team to the playoffs. He may have actually won a game or two if he didn't get matched up against the Spurs too.

[spectre]

Getting back to the C position...

Reasons for Concern? - QCH (http://www.queencityhoops.com/ReasonsForConcern.php)


However, the team defense took a significant hit - when Nazr was on the court last season, overall the Cats allowed 106.4 points per 100 possessions - without him, 100.8 (these numbers include the postseason).
It is clear that while Nazr's individual defense was passable - the team was very different as a whole with him on the court. The Bobcats aggressive man to man defense and the NBA as a whole's reliance on the pick and roll necessitate a big man who can move his move his feet and deter a driving opponent - Tyson is built for that kind of defense and Nazr is, well, less so.Been saying it since last year...TC was the best P&R defender we've ever had.

Tyson's Defensive Impact (http://queencityhoops.com/TysonsDefensiveImpact.php)

more at the link.

Brett promises an examination of the PG spot next...maybe THEN we can discuss them in another thread.

[Muttley]

Getting back to the C position...

Reasons for Concern? - QCH (http://www.queencityhoops.com/ReasonsForConcern.php)

Been saying it since last year...TC was the best P&R defender we've ever had.

Tyson's Defensive Impact (http://queencityhoops.com/TysonsDefensiveImpact.php)

more at the link.
Hmm... Perhaps the thought is that Kwame can fill some of that void and furthermore spend more time on the court than Tyson did. How's Kwame's P&R defense?

[DY_nasty]

Its too bad that TC could never stay on the court like that, but w/e... if anything, this just proves how bad our C depth was last year.

Also, sorry if I derailed the thread. I was just responding to stuff, didn't think my opinion would take things so far offtopic.

[spectre]

Its too bad that TC could never stay on the court like that, but w/e... if anything, this just proves how bad our C depth was last year.

Also, sorry if I derailed the thread. I was just responding to stuff, didn't think my opinion would take things so far offtopic.

Thing is everything is in line for TC to have a very good year. Contract's up, has had plenty of rest (didn't he continue to try and play on the toe/injury in NOLA?) and he now has that new custom fitted brace with the time in getting used to it.

I thought he was looking really good the final part of the season too. It was really a treat seeing him defend that P&R...esp. since I haven't seen it with any consistently in our history. I really didn't want him to leave (fat expiring at the deadline wouldn't be bad either).

Stuff gets off track all the time. Felton has been argued about so darn much when he was here it seems very immaterial to have debates about him now, at least from my perspective. He's gone and doesn't concern us anymore...now he's the enemy. And I know you didn't bring it up.

Y'all can start a separate thread called "Felton Sucks". That way I can stay totally out of it! :p

Edit:

I see it's went to "point guard rankings" and I'll just avoid that one...so it's all good! :biggrin:

[DY_nasty]

Thing is everything is in line for TC to have a very good year. Contract's up, has had plenty of rest (didn't he continue to try and play on the toe/injury in NOLA?) and he now has that new custom fitted brace with the time in getting used to it.

I thought he was looking really good the final part of the season too. It was really a treat seeing him defend that P&R...esp. since I haven't seen it with any consistently in our history. I really didn't want him to leave (fat expiring at the deadline wouldn't be bad either).

Stuff gets off track all the time. Felton has been argued about so darn much when he was here it seems very immaterial to have debates about him now, at least from my perspective. He's gone and doesn't concern us anymore...now he's the enemy. And I know you didn't bring it up.

Y'all can start a separate thread called "Felton Sucks". That way I can stay totally out of it! :p

Edit:

I see it's went to "point guard rankings" and I'll just avoid that one...so it's all good! :biggrin:TC was going to have a good season this year no matter what. Its his contract year - thats the kind of guy he is. I saw this coming a mile away... I'm just happy that he's not here because he'd no doubt put up 10/8/2 season and demand some fat booty contract from us. He'll probably light it up in Dallas then join the rest of Cuban's overpaid bigs.

[spectre]

Hmm... Perhaps the thought is that Kwame can fill some of that void and furthermore spend more time on the court than Tyson did. How's Kwame's P&R defense?

Found some stuff

Kwame Brown's defense can't be the only thing keeping him on the bench (http://blog.mlive.com/fullcourtpress/2010/02/john_kuesters_criticism_of_kwa.html)

Here's one way back from 2005:

Kwame Brown Will Never Reach His Potential. (http://newsgroups.derkeiler.com/Archive/Alt/alt.sports.basketball.nba.la-lakers/2005-12/msg01562.html)


Fourth, his defensive game. Kwame Brown is a fair post-defender. He
denies position relatively well and can force altered shots even against
the likes of Garnett. However, when it comes to team defense and
rebounding, Brown slips. He is often late on rotation or simply
unwilling to help out teammates and offer help defense on dribble
penetration from a guard or swing man. Blocked shots are nearly
non-existent because of that. The advantage to not rotating on defense
is good position under the basket. Unfortunately, he doesn?t box-out as
well, nor as consistently as fellow teammates Andrew Bynum or Lamar
Odom. While it?s clear he has all the physical and athletic tools to
become a very good defender, his progress defensively has been awfully
slow.

From 2007 leaving the Lakers:

Report Card/Exit Interview: Kwame Brown (http://lakersblog.latimes.com/lakersblog/2007/05/report_cardexit_14.html)


Obviously, there's no denying how well Kwame does bodying up the Tim Duncans of the world and denying position. He could be among the league's top five at that particular skill set. But there's more to patrolling the paint than just being an immovable one-on-one force. He needs to rotate better, prevent more layups by guys other than just his man, block more shots and generally create a greater variety of havoc. Even if Kwame becomes nothing more than a poor man's Ben Wallace, no worries. You can do considerably worse than that. But at this point, he's more "Homeless Man's" Big Ben than simply "poor." If defense is destined to become Kwame's calling card, his needs to be better-rounded.

I dare say he's not that great defending the P&R. It does look like he can lock down his own man though.

He's a vet min, but he ain't no Theo.

Tyrus & him might be interesting.

[spectre]

TC was going to have a good season this year no matter what. Its his contract year - thats the kind of guy he is. I saw this coming a mile away... I'm just happy that he's not here because he'd no doubt put up 10/8/2 season and demand some fat booty contract from us. He'll probably light it up in Dallas then join the rest of Cuban's overpaid bigs.

But you use that instead of letting it take advantage.

He puts up good numbers it would only increase his value beyond the expiring at the deadline. That way we get the benefit of the play and the payoff.

You just don't want to be the one paying the fat contract next year.

[BlockParty]

No matter what happens Tyson is not 12 times better than Kwame. We win :biggrin:

Unless of course the NBA gives Tyson 3 extra fouls a game on the offensive end of the court (usually when he doesn't have the ball and isn't picking for his teammate with the ball). Then Tyson would be more valuable...until his feet hurt and he needs to take some time (4-6 weeks) to wait and see if all the pain goes away completely.

[teej]

No matter what happens Tyson is not 12 times better than Kwame. We win :biggrin:

Unless of course the NBA gives Tyson 3 extra fouls a game on the offensive end of the court

Or they elimnated the 3 second violation.

[DY_nasty]

But you use that instead of letting it take advantage.

He puts up good numbers it would only increase his value beyond the expiring at the deadline. That way we get the benefit of the play and the payoff.

You just don't want to be the one paying the fat contract next year.
Yeah, I posted that exact same sentiment a few months back. I really do feel as if he'll have a good start to the season.

I wonder who'd have a better trade value though, DUST or contractyearTC...

[spectre]

Yeah, I posted that exact same sentiment a few months back. I really do feel as if he'll have a good start to the season.

I wonder who'd have a better trade value though, DUST or contractyearTC...

This year TC because of all the teams who had space. If this had been a year or two back I think DUST would really have pulled something good. At the deadline (assuming TC plays for the contract and stays healthy) I'd bet some team would give up a very good young asset for what he can do in a playoff run.

[G-Force]

According to Marc Spears tweet is out for 4-6 week due to ankle injury?!


Bobcats say center Kwame Brown will miss a minimum of 4-6 weeks due to a third degree left ankle sprain. 1 minute ago (http://twitter.com/SpearsNBAYahoo/status/25518929538) via Twitter for BlackBerry® (http://blackberry.com/twitter)

Are you serious?!!! Training camp hasn't even started!

[Muttley]

By my calculations, he'd be getting healthy right around the start of the season. It would obviously be much nicer to have him around in training camp, though.

[spectre]

:facepalm:













10 char

[ALong13]

Well there goes any hope and chance for Kwame Brown to start the season as a starter on his "comeback tour"

[Toocool]

And I was hoping LB could help Kwame work on his game before start of the season to give us a tiny bit of boost. Clearly not. Although if the time spent teaching Kwame changes to teaching the young ones such as TT, Hendo and UPS, I'm all for it.

[ammofan]

Man wtf Kwame? Is his contract voidable before the season starts? Please?

[BlockParty]

Not worried about this injury, Nazr did fine early in the season last year. If Nazr, Kwame, Diop and situational fill-ins by TT is the committee approach the Bobcats end up taking, we actually need to stagger the wear and tear on the players. Having Kwame miss a lot in November may help us in March.

[Plowright]

someone always gets injured pre training camp for every team, lets just be thankful its kwame and not one of our starters!

[TattoodCats4life]

Very true, and seriously, I'll drink to that... but I'm also hoping that there is a chance that his contract is voidable, even we do play him early in the season, if he blows we can waive his as5 and get someone else (off waivers or otherwise cheap).


someone always gets injured pre training camp for every team, lets just be thankful its kwame and not one of our starters!