Point guard rankings

[dav7z]

http://games.espn.go.com/fba/tools/projections?display=alt&slotCategoryId=0&startIndex=30

Collins our [BEST] or highest ranked point is sitting at 40th best point in the league.
Livingston is ranked 66th
DJ brings up the rear ranked 77th . The league must really think he sucks. Thats all but saying hes not even back up material.

I knew DJs value sucked , but had no idea it sucked this bad.

[Black]

I'll take my chances with the former lottery picks over the fat undrafted rookies. I like Collins, but those rankings are a joke.

[BlockParty]

[QUOTE=dav7z;176738] The league must really think he sucks.[QUOTE]

Don't confuse "the league" with Hollinger driven ESPN opinions. All of their articles (and I know he isn't the only person commenting on the rankings) are written to support whatever diarrhea his computer spits out.

[SWedd523]

http://beliketike.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/michael-jordan-cigar.jpg

[Toocool]

I looked, and instantly saw when it said ESPN that it would be full of bull crap. It was far worse :facepalm:

[Fred Williamson]

whatthefuckisthisshit.jpg

[ND22]

Ricky Rubio is rated higher than Livingston and DJ. He's not even in the league. :facepalm:

[dvdbumpus]

They have Eric Bledsoe ranked higher. The rookie that backed up John Wall at Kentucky. The one that hasn't even started a game since high school. The one that averaged more turnovers than assists in college.


They also have Will Conroy, the player that continually has played in the NBDL and can't get a chance to be on a roster.

On top of that, they have Ty Lawson at 61 and Rodrigue Beabois 63rd. Oh and lastly, they have Ramon Sessions 87th. Yea. Totally accurate. Steve Blake and Lukle Ridnour in the 100's.

Lastly, they have Mo Williams ahead of Derrick Rose, Darren Collison and Tony Parker. WTF!

[ammofan]

WHat are these rankings based on?

[Black]

After a bottle of watermelon vodka and hours of Streisand records, Hollinger gets a little loopy.

[The Prodigy]

Nate Robinson at 105? Hes not great, but is Sherron Collins and many other undrafted rookies really better than him?

[The Prodigy]

Brevin Knight ahead of Derek Fisher
:yeah:

[EC123]

I looked, and instantly saw when it said ESPN that it would be full of bull crap. It was far worse :facepalm:

Had no idea there were even 77 PGs out there, but relatively speaking, the positions they are in the rankings looks about right.

[EC123]

Ricky Rubio is rated higher than Livingston and DJ. He's not even in the league. :facepalm:

To rank most players higher than Augustin is the only thing keeping this poll from falling apart.

[dav7z]

Livingston being ranked that low with his knee problems. Is not that far off. I addmit he leaves a big?? A mistake puting 7 milion into him ?? I don't know. It seems like a big investment if the kid can't dress. I have heard rumors his contract is not a gurnatee. Can any one confirm.

DJ being ranked at 77 th for sure didn't get any love. But being a hudge Bobcat fan it's no way i can rank him any higher than 45th. Yes im saying hes in the lower half of the backup points in the league . Is our frount office really going to put the playoffs in either of thease two guys hands.

I think Collins was ranked 4oth a undrafted rookie just to show how pathic our point staff is?? If a undrafted rookie gets that much more love than our suposed starter its a statement of how bad our suposed starter really is liked. Basicly ESPN is saying our points suck.

Most of you guys are saying its just ESPN ? I feel ESPN was close ranking Wallace, JAX , Borris ., T Time was a little low but not out of the question. If the rest of the positions was ranked close . Then how did our points get screwed so bad ? Have you guys ever thought ESPN thinks our points just isn't that good.

[BRNC]

I think the season will tell if the rankings are correct...difficult (for me) to really argue with them since they are based on performance...although Collins has shown nothing in the NBA I guess they (ESPN) have rated him where they saw him as a draft pick...I can only hope that at least one of our guys proves them wrong...but it is on them to do that...

[ND22]

I'm also starting to believe ESPN stopped accurately ranking the players after a certain number. And another thing, this applies to fantasy basketball rankings, so that could have something to do with it.

On a side note it has Gerald Wallace as the number 3 PF. I wouldn't think too much about these rankings to be honest.

[dav7z]

I'm also starting to believe ESPN stopped accurately ranking the players after a certain number. And another thing, this applies to fantasy basketball rankings, so that could have something to do with it.

On a side note it has Gerald Wallace as the number 3 PF. I wouldn't think too much about these rankings to be honest.

3rd for Wallace is a little high at Power foward . But its close , If any thing it shows ESPN just isn't throughing out hate to the Bobcats.

We just need to face it . DJ. Livingston , Collins is the woest group of points in the league.
Not any of thease points would start all season on any team in the NBA.

[DY_nasty]

this applies to fantasy basketball rankings, so that could have something to do with it.
It has everything to do with lol

you guys are flipping out over nothing

[Muttley]

It has everything to do with lol

you guys are flipping out over nothing
Agreed.

These rankings would seem to imply though that the ESPN-ers think that Collins will end up earning more minutes than Livingston or DJ. Thus being a better candidate for a fantasy team. That said, how many leagues have 40 PGs drafted? (Outside of BCP's bohemoth 20-team leagues, that is.)

Not that anyone should take ESPN's word for much of anything.

[teej]

Not that anyone should take ESPN's word for much of anything.

Especially not Raiders fans.


The Raiders have never discussed trading for Leinart.The Raiders are very happy about their quarterback situation. about 1 hour ago (http://twitter.com/RAIDERS/status/22732618537) via web

ESPN’s Adam Schefter is once again making untrue statements about The Oakland Raiders, this time regarding Matt Leinart. about 1 hour ago (http://twitter.com/RAIDERS/status/22730332869) via web

[dav7z]

Agreed.

These rankings would seem to imply though that the ESPN-ers think that Collins will end up earning more minutes than Livingston or DJ. Thus being a better candidate for a fantasy team. That said, how many leagues have 40 PGs drafted? (Outside of BCP's bohemoth 20-team leagues, that is.)

Not that anyone should take ESPN's word for much of anything.

I agree with ESPN our points suck , Collins might just be our best option . DJ sure to god isn't.

[DY_nasty]

I agree with ESPN our points suck , Collins might just be our best option . DJ sure to god isn't.
lol... if only people were willing to give DJ 4 years of excuses like they did for Felton

[BlockParty]

lol... if only people were willing to give DJ 4 years of excuses like they did for Felton

I'll give him 2 and a quarter (until Christmas this year). The Bobcats are in a different place than in Felton's first 2-3 years. We've made the playoffs, we have the same Cap as other teams. Whether that is DJ's fault or not, it is the reality of life in pro-sports. He needs to produce...NOW. With LB, my bet is before we get out of November, he's made his decision on DJ.

DJ was so promising, I remember the scrimmage at the end of training camp his rookie season in Wilmington, he nearly broke GW's ankles twice on moves to the basket. He was young carefree and just worried about playing ball. Last season, I'm not sure where his head was, that was his mulligan.

I wish him the best, but the circumstances are entirely different from when Felton was starting his 3rd season.

[DY_nasty]

I'll give him 2 and a quarter (until Christmas this year). The Bobcats are in a different place than in Felton's first 2-3 years. We've made the playoffs, we have the same Cap as other teams. Whether that is DJ's fault or not, it is the reality of life in pro-sports. He needs to produce...NOW. With LB, my bet is before we get out of November, he's made his decision on DJ.

DJ was so promising, I remember the scrimmage at the end of training camp his rookie season in Wilmington, he nearly broke GW's ankles twice on moves to the basket. He was young carefree and just worried about playing ball. Last season, I'm not sure where his head was, that was his mulligan.

I wish him the best, but the circumstances are entirely different from when Felton was starting his 3rd season.
I'm pretty much on the exact same page as you. If he doesn't at least get off to a solid start, then I could see him get traded and wouldn't feel like he was given a raw deal while he was here.

[dav7z]

I'm pretty much on the exact same page as you. If he doesn't at least get off to a solid start, then I could see him get traded and wouldn't feel like he was given a raw deal while he was here.

He had two years playing solid back up mins . I still can't name ONE point he stoped on the defencive side of the ball.

We can only pray for Billups or Lawson

[DY_nasty]

He had two years playing solid back up mins . I still can't name ONE point he stoped on the defencive side of the ball.

We can only pray for Billups or Lawson
He's had plenty of stops, just like he's had plenty of mistakes - the same can be said for any young point guard. I'm not going to say that DJ is perfect, far from it, but to suggest that he's some complete failure of a project point guard is absurd.

Still, one bad season under a coach that clearly has some sort of issues with him AFTER he's already had one solid year... it doesn't make any sense at all to give up on the guy.

[SWedd523]

Off the top of my head, I can remember DJ absolutely working Derrick Rose in their rookie year.

DJ on 12/16
45 MIN
.375 FG
.571 3PT
13-13 FT
29 PTS
7 AST
1 TOV
1 STL
2 REB


Rose on 12/16
47 MIN
.188 FG
.000 3PT
0-0 FT
6 PTS
7 AST
3 TOV
0 STL
5 REB



There's just one example

[Toocool]

Off the top of my head, I can remember DJ absolutely working Derrick Rose in their rookie year.

DJ on 12/16
45 MIN
.375 FG
.571 3PT
13-13 FT
29 PTS
7 AST
1 TOV
1 STL
2 REB


Rose on 12/16
47 MIN
.188 FG
.000 3PT
0-0 FT
6 PTS
7 AST
3 TOV
0 STL
5 REB



There's just one example

If that's a workout, then there is no more fat lady that can sing. Fat lady just lost 50 kgs to that workout right there.

[dav7z]

Off the top of my head, I can remember DJ absolutely working Derrick Rose in their rookie year.

DJ on 12/16
45 MIN
.375 FG
.571 3PT
13-13 FT
29 PTS
7 AST
1 TOV
1 STL
2 REB


Rose on 12/16
47 MIN
.188 FG
.000 3PT
0-0 FT
6 PTS
7 AST
3 TOV
0 STL
5 REB



There's just one example

Out of a 164 games thats one of only two or three times hes looked decent.
And what did Rose do to him this past year? He made DJ his Bitch.

[spectre]

There's only very small sample sizes in regards to DJ because LB had a crutch (Felton) to always fall back on. He seldom matched up with starter PGs, and when he was in it was usually with Felton and he took the lesser offensive player.

His starting stats? Against 2 teams...Detroit (Stuckey didn't play) and Minny.

If LB's ONLY realistic option was DJ it could/might be different. DJ isn't a defensive sieve, he puts forth effort and his man D has improved. Thing is with Livingston here and the possibility that we're looking for a better PG than the status quo just doesn't bode well for him.

FWIW that first year Rose was still trying to find his place on the Bulls...he was very erratic and hesitant to stay with his strengths most of the time. Last year Felton couldn't stop him either (nor most PGs I'd imagine...he's pretty frigging amazing on the drive). We couldn't do squat with him until LB had the bright idea of playing Crash on the receiver of the P&R.

[dav7z]

He's had plenty of stops, just like he's had plenty of mistakes - the same can be said for any young point guard. I'm not going to say that DJ is perfect, far from it, but to suggest that he's some complete failure of a project point guard is absurd.

Still, one bad season under a coach that clearly has some sort of issues with him AFTER he's already had one solid year... it doesn't make any sense at all to give up on the guy.

ESPN HAS HIM RANKED 77th . Hes not in a class with Lopez . Hes not in a class of any loto pick that year. And i can't belive people actually blame LB a hall of fame coach because a player sucks.

Felton sucked on offence but prided his self on defence. Actually a bodorline starter. A player who busted his ass for any thing he got.
DJ don't know how or wont bust his ass to get better. Thats why Browns not crazy about him . I know most don't like what im saying about DJ . But if he ends up out starting point we headed back to the loto.

Browns issues with DJ . Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm DJ is lazy with no drive to get better.

[spectre]

DJ don't know how or wont bust his ass to get better. Thats why Browns not crazy about him . I know most don't like what im saying about DJ . But if he ends up out starting point we headed back to the loto.

What...he's been WORKING HARD! He said so himself right after he came back from Europe!

I've always been concerned that he doesn't hang out with the rest in the offseason here in Charlotte.

[dav7z]

What...he's been WORKING HARD! He said so himself right after he came back from Europe!

I've always been concerned that he doesn't hang out with the rest in the offseason here in Charlotte.


I don't think he will ever put the work in required . I don't even think JAX can get him in early with the team to go to work. Belive me the kid really needs the work.
Next thing hes going to piss JAX off. Jax being close to Felton any way .

[DY_nasty]

ESPN HAS HIM RANKED 77th . Hes not in a class with Lopez . Hes not in a class of any loto pick that year. And i can't belive people actually blame LB a hall of fame coach because a player sucks.

Felton sucked on offence but prided his self on defence. Actually a bodorline starter. A player who busted his ass for any thing he got.
DJ don't know how or wont bust his ass to get better. Thats why Browns not crazy about him . I know most don't like what im saying about DJ . But if he ends up out starting point we headed back to the loto.

Browns issues with DJ . Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm DJ is lazy with no drive to get better.
ESPN also had the Cavs winning this year and last. They had the Bucks finishing in the lottery. They said Oden was the next Kareem.... ESPN is just an opinion, its not fact.

Not only that, but this list is only about fantasy basketball - not actual impact. Fantasy stats =/= actual basketball.

And who said anything about Lopez?

[teej]

His starting stats? Against 2 teams...Detroit (Stuckey didn't play) and Minny.

I don't remember the Detroit game, but the Minny one Sessions absolutely killed DJ, and we only won because Nazr was amazing and Minny had a mental error at the end.

[dav7z]

ESPN also had the Cavs winning this year and last. They had the Bucks finishing in the lottery. They said Oden was the next Kareem.... ESPN is just an opinion, its not fact.

Not only that, but this list is only about fantasy basketball - not actual impact. Fantasy stats =/= actual basketball.

And who said anything about Lopez?

Just saying he wasn't any where close to a loto pick. People talk junk about Felton unjustly for two years . And we have one thread about a player who can't ware Feltons jock strap on the court . A lazy point who never shows up early to work on his game to get better and WE SUPOSE TO HAND HIM THE KEYS TO A STARTING POINT POSITION. Its no wonder Brown is pissed at the kid.

[DY_nasty]

Just saying he wasn't any where close to a loto pick. People talk junk about Felton unjustly for two years . And we have one thread about a player who can't ware Feltons jock strap on the court . A lazy point who never shows up early to work on his game to get better and WE SUPOSE TO HAND HIM THE KEYS TO A STARTING POINT POSITION. Its no wonder Brown is pissed at the kid.
Brown is always pissed at someone. Its his thing, its what he's known for.

His rookie season stats clearly prove that his selection in the lottery was justified.

Felton is no better than Kyle Lowry, he may actually be a little worse. Felton barely improved his game at all over his NBA career. People want to talk about a 2nd year pg making mistakes, how about the established vet making the same mistakes he was back in his own rookie season.

And yeah, give him the keys and lets see what he does with it - Even if we start 3-8, it won't be any worse than last year.

[dav7z]

Brown is always pissed at someone. Its his thing, its what he's known for.

His rookie season stats clearly prove that his selection in the lottery was justified.

Felton is no better than Kyle Lowry, he may actually be a little worse. Felton barely improved his game at all over his NBA career. People want to talk about a 2nd year pg making mistakes, how about the established vet making the same mistakes he was back in his own rookie season.

And yeah, give him the keys and lets see what he does with it - Even if we start 3-8, it won't be any worse than last year.

Most ever one is sceard of DJ starting. Management has been looking sence early spring for some one . I read early today if Livingston could hold up . He could start over DJ . Billups is our hopes Lawson is all so on our radar.

Is it a chance you a season ticket holder. Because over a span of 41 home games DJ and his liabilitys are really seen . Its not like what you see on the TV, you see all the mistakes , belive me its a hell of a lot of them.
BTW , DJ , should not even be in the same conversation as Lowry and Felton we talking about a different class players. When we talking DJ . If you to classify DJ lets put him in the right class, I would compare him to a inexperanced BK , or a Bynum with a much less shot. Or to a defence of a old Jeff [torch] McGenis.

Is it your hope to go back to the loto. Because starting DJ will do that for us . BTW DJ would be lucky to take us to 1 and 9 start with the first 10 teams we playing. It is inportant to start fast in a stronger east this season.

[DY_nasty]

Most ever one is sceard of DJ starting. Management has been looking sence early spring for some one . I read early today if Livingston could hold up . He could start over DJ . Billups is our hopes Lawson is all so on our radar.

Is it a chance you a season ticket holder. Because over a span of 41 home games DJ and his liabilitys are really seen . Its not like what you see on the TV, you see all the mistakes , belive me its a hell of a lot of them.
BTW , DJ , should not even be in the same conversation as Lowry and Felton we talking about a different class players. When we talking DJ . If you to classify DJ lets put him in the right class, I would compare him to a inexperanced BK , or a Bynum with a much less shot. Or to a defence of a old Jeff [torch] McGenis.

Is it your hope to go back to the loto. Because starting DJ will do that for us . BTW DJ would be lucky to take us to 1 and 9 start with the first 10 teams we playing. It is inportant to start fast in a stronger east this season.
Actually, every potential trade that would've had anything to do with DJ NOT starting going into the 2010-11 season has somehow been nixed at the last moment. The Portland talks, the Indiana deal, all of the Raptors deals - all shutdown. Just take it for its worth.

And please, spare me the 'do you watch the games talk'... DJ is nothing like BK because 1) he's not pass first 2) he can actually shoot. And are you talking about Will Bynum? Because he's shown that he's more than capable over the course of his Detroit career as well, even though they play almost nothing alike but whatever...

Its one thing to say that 'hey, I don't particularly like this guy', but you don't need to make up reasons that everyone should too. Hell, I don't like Henderson - but I hope he plays well and gets a chance to actually show what he can do on the court.

[teej]

The Portland talks, the Indiana deal, all of the Raptors deals - all shutdown.

Indy deal was only stopped by Bob. MJ had ok'd it.

[DY_nasty]

Indy deal was only stopped by Bob. MJ had ok'd it.
Point still stands... enough people have put their investment into the guy (LB in the draft, Higgins ^, and MJ this summer), he deserves his shot. Its not like the guy has NEVER played well or anything.

[rsxnova]

ESPN HAS HIM RANKED 77th . Hes not in a class with Lopez . Hes not in a class of any loto pick that year. And i can't belive people actually blame LB a hall of fame coach because a player sucks.

Felton sucked on offence but prided his self on defence. Actually a bodorline starter. A player who busted his ass for any thing he got.
DJ don't know how or wont bust his ass to get better. Thats why Browns not crazy about him . I know most don't like what im saying about DJ . But if he ends up out starting point we headed back to the loto.

Browns issues with DJ . Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm DJ is lazy with no drive to get better.

Please dont put DJ above the mighty Joe Alexander as a bust.

[spectre]

Indy deal was only stopped by Bob. MJ had ok'd it.

No kidding?

Yet ANOTHER reason Bob wasn't so bad! :p

[teej]

No kidding?

Yet ANOTHER reason Bob wasn't so bad! :p

Looking back, since Naz got hurt right after that (like literally days) and seeing how DJ has done and that Ray walked, it wasn't such a bad idea.

[dav7z]

Actually, every potential trade that would've had anything to do with DJ NOT starting going into the 2010-11 season has somehow been nixed at the last moment. The Portland talks, the Indiana deal, all of the Raptors deals - all shutdown. Just take it for its worth.

And please, spare me the 'do you watch the games talk'... DJ is nothing like BK because 1) he's not pass first 2) he can actually shoot. And are you talking about Will Bynum? Because he's shown that he's more than capable over the course of his Detroit career as well, even though they play almost nothing alike but whatever...

Its one thing to say that 'hey, I don't particularly like this guy', but you don't need to make up reasons that everyone should too. Hell, I don't like Henderson - but I hope he plays well and gets a chance to actually show what he can do on the court.

Management would dump him for a second round pick if they could dump that 2.5 milion . You can bet your ass DJ will be included in any Damp trade. I go the game , DJ comes in i cheer with in 5 mins im saying get his sorry ass out . Hes just gives up to many leads. With no defence. Did you say he could actually shoot [not last season]
Thats why Brown went with Flip more and more as the season went on. After the Flip trade Brown had to make another quick rotation adjustment because DJ screwed up so quickly.He had to increase Feltons mins again. Just to hold on to a playoff spot.

Him and Alexander are running neck to neck Spectre

[DY_nasty]

Management would dump him for a second round pick if they could dump that 2.5 milion . You can bet your ass DJ will be included in any Damp trade. I go the game , DJ comes in i cheer with in 5 mins im saying get his sorry ass out . Hes just gives up to many leads. With no defence. Did you say he could actually shoot [not last season]
Thats why Brown went with Flip more and more as the season went on. After the Flip trade Brown had to make another quick rotation adjustment because DJ screwed up so quickly.He had to increase Feltons mins again. Just to hold on to a playoff spot.

Him and Alexander are running neck to neck Spectre
Uh, yeah. DJ shooting like crap still got more respect from behind the arc than Ray ever did. And since when did DJ ever single handedly give up a lead?

And Flip at point was terrible come on man. LB had idiotic rotations all season long and you and just about every bobcat fan acknowledged it - don't start advocating that idiocy from LB just because it supports your argument now lol

Thats like me saying that we should've kept Acie Law because LB saw enough in him to justify putting him into the game with no time left on the clock to win it all for us on the road.

[spectre]

Looking back, since Naz got hurt right after that (like literally days) and seeing how DJ has done and that Ray walked, it wasn't such a bad idea.

Heh, and I just posted awhile ago I was going to avoid this thread! :facepalm:

Who were we getting back again? Wasn't it Rush/TJ for Nazr/DJ/Henderson?

Nah...I still think that was a bad trade, esp. considering Nazr is now by far our best C. I'm not on DJ bandwagon but I definitely think he's being sold somewhat short (no pun intended). We've had worse PG backups, and I put a lot of importance on that position. Not his fault we've put him in the position he's in right now and he disappoints. Maybe he even steps up?

And even tho Ford probably is our best option barring a good trade...he's still crap in my book. Only getting Caleron makes him look entertaining to me.

Not sold on Hendo at all either but I think he's a much better defender than Rush. Given the choice between the two skillsets I'll take the defender (almost) every time.

[teej]

Heh, and I just posted awhile ago I was going to avoid this thread! :facepalm:

Who were we getting back again? Wasn't it Rush/TJ for Nazr/DJ/Henderson?

Nah...I still think that was a bad trade, esp. considering Nazr is now by far our best C. I'm not on DJ bandwagon but I definitely think he's being sold somewhat short (no pun intended). We've had worse PG backups, and I put a lot of importance on that position. Not his fault we've put him in the position he's in right now and he disappoints. Maybe he even steps up?

And even tho Ford probably is our best option barring a good trade...he's still crap in my book. Only getting Caleron makes him look entertaining to me.

Not sold on Hendo at all either but I think he's a much better defender than Rush. Given the choice between the two skillsets I'll take the defender (almost) every time.

A) Nazr being our best center is like DJ being our best point. They still aren't starters.

B) It wasn't a great steal by any stretch, but I'd still do it if there was nothing else out there.

C) I agree with you on taking the defender, except you can't have a team of defenders. SOMEone has to knock down a shot, and Hendo certainly can't do that with consistency.

[spectre]

A) Nazr being our best center is like DJ being our best point. They still aren't starters.

B) It wasn't a great steal by any stretch, but I'd still do it if there was nothing else out there.

C) I agree with you on taking the defender, except you can't have a team of defenders. SOMEone has to knock down a shot, and Hendo certainly can't do that with consistency.

A) It is what it is. Barring a unique trade (has there been any rumors where we upgrade C?) Nazr's our guy. Better he than Kwame or Gana.

B) Not me. I think it was crap then and I'm still there.

C) Have you seen Rush's stats? Consistency isn't in there anywhere.

Wow...I just saw that Rush shot 63% from the line last season! It also appears he's like DJ; not that good from inside the ring but his 3 ball keeps his overall % at least fair.

[dav7z]

Uh, yeah. DJ shooting like crap still got more respect from behind the arc than Ray ever did. And since when did DJ ever single handedly give up a lead?

And Flip at point was terrible come on man. LB had idiotic rotations all season long and you and just about every bobcat fan acknowledged it - don't start advocating that idiocy from LB just because it supports your argument now lol

Thats like me saying that we should've kept Acie Law because LB saw enough in him to justify putting him into the game with no time left on the clock to win it all for us on the road.

I noticed a while back you wasn't a fan of Felton . The board being dead i thought i would pull your chain a little. Truth be told about DJ . I think he has a carer as a decent back up point in the league. Though im not convinced he can start. If we don't trade for a point it should be a instresting battle for a starting job between him and Livingston.
Truth be told i hate we didn;t have a solid plan at the center and point positions . I feel both are not as solid as last season so far. This has been the weirdest off season in Bobcat history. It just seams we have no true direction. T he signing of the Dust and then the signings of Livingston and Brown. We all hearing rumblings of a great trade. And we just hopeing the frunt office makes one positive move.

DJ is not that bad and i don't hate him . Just a little payback for the hell you give Spectre about Felton.

[DY_nasty]

I noticed a while back you wasn't a fan of Felton . The board being dead i thought i would pull your chain a little. Truth be told about DJ . I think he has a carer as a decent back up point in the league. Though im not convinced he can start. If we don't trade for a point it should be a instresting battle for a starting job between him and Livingston.
Truth be told i hate we didn;t have a solid plan at the center and point positions . I feel both are not as solid as last season so far. This has been the weirdest off season in Bobcat history. It just seams we have no true direction. T he signing of the Dust and then the signings of Livingston and Brown. We all hearing rumblings of a great trade. And we just hopeing the frunt office makes one positive move.

DJ is not that bad and i don't hate him . Just a little payback for the hell you give Spectre about Felton.I like Felton, and it goes back to high school. I went to the same school as David Noel and Ray used to come through a few of my games. Dude even gave me shoutout when I was playing in the CIAA tourney at Time Warner when I was riding pine. He's a cool guy, but that doesn't mean I won't be critical of his game. Since he's been in the NBA, his game just hasn't improved that much. People want to say that his shooting improved but that was direct effect of Jackson's arrival and LB gradually removing him from the ball. How has he got any better? And not only that, why is he called a winner? Dude never turned the franchise around or anything. How he is a leader? Jackson is a leader... Ray never commanded any kind of respect like that. The guy is fun to watch, and I love being a fan of his but I'm not going to act like he's proven that he can be anything other than a good 6th man on a playoff team.

And I'm not attacking anyone here. I don't get why people keep trying to come at me with some sort of animosity just because I have different opinions along with a decent argument behind each one. Even in the last thread I was agreeing with someone else, then people just responded one after another to what I posted. I've got no problem with a good argument - this is a message board, I post here for a reason.

The front office hasn't made a bad move yet in this offseason. You can only play the hand that you're dealt and Higgins isn't working with much. The jury is still out on the Dampier/Chandler/Okafor work in progress though.

Its just crazy how people say DJ can't play after he's proven in the past that he can. Then a young PG has a down year under Larry Brown - shocking! - LB is notorious from breaking down players. His rough stretch shouldn't be a surprise to anyone.

[spectre]

DJ is not that bad and i don't hate him . Just a little payback for the hell you give Spectre about Felton.

It's great to have pals!

Damn fine job too...I was starting to buy it!

Dy is all right in my book, and it was part my fault for "taking the bait" so to speak.

[truDUKEfan]

I think he should start with our current guard line-up but if we can make a huge improvement without out going over the cap. then im all for that. But its gotta be a significant upgrade and we still gotta see how Livingston pans out ( thats a huge line up with him at point everyone on the court would be 6'7 or over ) :confused2:

[dav7z]

I like Felton, and it goes back to high school. I went to the same school as David Noel and Ray used to come through a few of my games. Dude even gave me shoutout when I was playing in the CIAA tourney at Time Warner when I was riding pine. He's a cool guy, but that doesn't mean I won't be critical of his game. Since he's been in the NBA, his game just hasn't improved that much. People want to say that his shooting improved but that was direct effect of Jackson's arrival and LB gradually removing him from the ball. How has he got any better? And not only that, why is he called a winner? Dude never turned the franchise around or anything. How he is a leader? Jackson is a leader... Ray never commanded any kind of respect like that. The guy is fun to watch, and I love being a fan of his but I'm not going to act like he's proven that he can be anything other than a good 6th man on a playoff team.

And I'm not attacking anyone here. I don't get why people keep trying to come at me with some sort of animosity just because I have different opinions along with a decent argument behind each one. Even in the last thread I was agreeing with someone else, then people just responded one after another to what I posted. I've got no problem with a good argument - this is a message board, I post here for a reason.

The front office hasn't made a bad move yet in this offseason. You can only play the hand that you're dealt and Higgins isn't working with much. The jury is still out on the Dampier/Chandler/Okafor work in progress though.

Its just crazy how people say DJ can't play after he's proven in the past that he can. Then a young PG has a down year under Larry Brown - shocking! - LB is notorious from breaking down players. His rough stretch shouldn't be a surprise to anyone.


All kidding a side i noticed in your post you said The front office hasn't made a bad move this season.
I just wanted yours , Spectre, and all others thoughts, about the signings of Livingston, and Brown, befor useing the dust chip, With Miller, Ratliff, and quite a few decent points left. Those signings along with taking on Carroll and Nigeua are at best questionable moves to me. If you disagree please explain to me . The statement about no direction holds true for me.

[spectre]

DUST is incomplete, but it's not looking good at the moment. Livingston is also somewhat incomplete due to the health concerns, but IMO it's a good risk to take...so I'm going to add that to my positives.

Mistakes:

*Letting Felton walk for nothing. If that was the plan (they have a plan?) they should have had a little foresight and moved him earlier in a trade.

*Not re-signing Theo. Dude was a starter for us at the end of the season. Offer him a few bucks more over the vet min. Maybe he wanted to leave...but I've not seen that anywhere.

*Losing TC (still somewhat incomplete due to DUST). As I've said I think all the signs are there for him to have a good season...it would really have been nice to get that play on the court and then cash in at the deadline. It's possible we replace him in a DUST trade, but I've not seen any mention/rumor where we're getting back a better big.

*Not replacing Felton with a comparable PG. Per Higgins we were supposed to "upgrade" there...hasn't happened. If the FO thought Caleron/Ford is that then they're dumber than I thought.

Positives:

*Signing Livingston. Good possibility of reward with minimal risk (well, if 7 million guaranteed can be considered "minimal").

*Kwame. Not bad at all for the vet min...but with Gana on the roster and likely to stay there we needed better.

What else have we done this offseason? Oh yeah...McGuire. Who the fuck is that again?

It "appears" it's opening up for the young guys and that's not necessarily a bad thing. What DOES make it bad is it's Larry Brown coaching the team. If any of them do get some significant time I imagine they'll be on a really short leash...and it wouldn't surprise me if LB gives them the PT in order to say to the FO "see, this isn't going to work".

[Chef]

Mistakes:

*Letting Felton walk for nothing. If that was the plan (they have a plan?) they should have had a little foresight and moved him earlier in a trade.



terrible mistake. we talked about this many times over the past two seasons. although the catch 22 was do you trade your starting pg last year as you are getting your franchise's first playoff berth? i think trading him last year and missing the playoffs would have been the death of the franchise.

[dvdbumpus]

terrible mistake. we talked about this many times over the past two seasons. although the catch 22 was do you trade your starting pg last year as you are getting your franchise's first playoff berth? i think trading him last year and missing the playoffs would have been the death of the franchise.

I think Felton's end to his Bobcats career was when he got dominated by Jameer Nelson in the playoffs. He was probably 50/50 on staying, as LB would have traded him if he didn't want to give him a shot to be his PG for a few more years.

[dnbman]

I think Felton's end to his Bobcats career was when he got dominated by Jameer Nelson in the playoffs. He was probably 50/50 on staying, as LB would have traded him if he didn't want to give him a shot to be his PG for a few more years.

I agree, no matter how unfortunate it is. If Felton had a strong showing, I think he's still a Bobcat. However, given how little he impacted the game in the playoffs and his overall resume of mediocrity, the organization had to let him go. I don't think any of the FO thought Felton would be that disappointing in the playoffs. I'm not remotely blaming Felton for our poor playoff performance, but that was what did him in.

That being said, I am surprised we didn't try to get another working class point guard. Livingston is yet another risk, even though I feel pretty positive about him right now.

[BlockParty]

terrible mistake. we talked about this many times over the past two seasons. although the catch 22 was do you trade your starting pg last year as you are getting your franchise's first playoff berth? i think trading him last year and missing the playoffs would have been the death of the franchise.

I don't think it's a terrible mistake because I don't see Felton coming back and being a thorn in our sides on the court. Will he play well? probably, will NY's record versus the Bobcats improve? doubtful (and not because of Felton's presence). What will happen is another team in the east OVERPAID for talent in giving Felton what they did....that ultimately helps the Bobcats as NY will have less flexibility in free agency (being closer to the cap because of what Felton is on the books for). Just like we benefited when Atlanta re-signed Joe Johnson on a max contract....he is overpaid, that will help the Bobcats.

[Chef]

I don't think it's a terrible mistake because I don't see Felton coming back and being a thorn in our sides on the court. Will he play well? probably, will NY's record versus the Bobcats improve? doubtful (and not because of Felton's presence). What will happen is another team in the east OVERPAID for talent in giving Felton what they did....that ultimately helps the Bobcats as NY will have less flexibility in free agency (being closer to the cap because of what Felton is on the books for). Just like we benefited when Atlanta re-signed Joe Johnson on a max contract....he is overpaid, that will help the Bobcats.

terrible mistake by not trading him two years ago or last year and getting something for him. we definitely could have gotten rid of bad contract with him or gotten some draft picks.

[BlockParty]

terrible mistake by not trading him two years ago or last year and getting something for him. we definitely could have gotten rid of bad contract with him or gotten some draft picks.

If we could've gotten alot for him (picks or dumping a bad contract), we would've done that. The interest wasn't there because teams were clearing cap space galore for the Summer of Lebron. And the teams with interest (including NY) would not have signed Raymond past the 2009-10 season even if they had interest (and they wouldn't give up draft picks or take on bad contracts if they had no guarantee he wouldn't move to another team).

It boils down to bad decision making (in hindsight) that we didn't package the stay-puff marshmellow May and Raymond for CP3 or Deron Williams. After that mistake, they guaranteed May for at least 1 season too many (not having seen him work on the micro-fracture repaired knee).

Raymond was a servicable asset for the organization, but as an organization, we sealed the deal with him when we decided to hire Larry Brown. If anything, Raymond worked out better than could be predicted in Brown's system and DJ's demise last season ended any hopes of moving Raymond during the season as we were moving forward in our first playoff run.

[spectre]

Larry Brown didn't want to trade Felton. Walsh said he tried to make a deal last year but LB wasn't interested (something about "can't trade his heart"). Felton would have had to approve of it, but since he ended up there anyway you'd think something could have been done.

Agreed with BP that making the playoff run probably factored into LB's reasoning.

We COULD have moved him the year before at the deadline. Dallas was very motivated to trade for him and had been for a couple of years.

[spectre]

Reasons for Concern? pt. 2 - QCH (http://www.queencityhoops.com/ReasonsForConcernPt2.php)

As promised, the 2nd installment of the tradeoffs we've made...this one at the PG spot.

[SWedd523]

I still think the loss of Tyson is overstated

[spectre]

I still think the loss of Tyson is overstated

Out most of the season like last year...I'd agree. IF (Big "if) he can log 65-70 games I think we'd really be regretting the loss along with losing Theo...esp. against the penetrating guards who can dish in the paint. Those two were the only ones who were decent at defending that.

The (lack of quality) depth overall is bothersome at the 5.

[LiquidWayno]

I'm amazed how we got 4 deep at the 5 year after year without a single legit NBA starter.