Dampier Waived

[ND22]

http://www.nba.com/bobcats/release_dampier_waived_100914.html

No Carmelo, Chauncey, Thompson, or TJ. Just dust, and a lot of cap space.

[GOBOBCATS24]

Crap that sucks

[ohara831]

Mike, if you are cash strapped, you should not have bought the damn team.

[ALuhrs704]

im kinda upset with this. i know it will help us in the long run with the cap space but in retrospect i dont think anyone would like getting matt carrol and najera for okafor. i know it had everything to do with $$$, but i was hoping we could get a decent impact player for our team with damp.

[Mustachio]

http://www.nba.com/bobcats/release_dampier_waived_100914.html

No Carmelo, Chauncey, Thompson, or TJ. Just dust, and a lot of cap space.


Thanks Bobcats. Way to run an organization. i feel a lot better about my decision to buy season tickets, knowing that you didnt have to go over the luxury cap and spend money. It makes my decision to spend money on you a whole lot easier.

So let me get this straight. Had Okafor, traded him for Chandler, traded him for Dampier, cut him for money. solid work guys. go play some golf.

[spectre]

So we ended up swapping TC's expiring (and Ajinca!) of 13 million, took on Carroll & Nagera's combined 17.5 million over 3 years just to get under the tax.

I do think we were after CP and I commend the FO for taking the gamble...but damn.

[teej]

Frees up 2.2 mil for Flip...

[spectre]

Frees up 2.2 mil for Flip...

...and in turn gives us an "intimidated" PG.

Just kidding! I liked Flip. We could do worse with that 2.2 I guess. That C position still looks mighty pitiful though.

[ohara831]

Well, I hope we are pleasantly surprised by the developement of DJ, Hendo and UPS. For us to get back to the playoffs, they are going to have to step it up.

[spectre]

Hey...Earl Watson is still out there. He'd be a good deal at 2.2 million.

[ND22]

Yeah I think this is a case of gambling to see what we could get, and not getting anything, so now we cut our losses and move on. This isn't what anybody wanted, but we just have to hope the unproven players we have (DJ, UPS, Hendo), step up this year.

[teej]

Plenty of backup big men too, maybe split the MLE?

[spectre]

Plenty of backup big men too, maybe split the MLE?

We already have...part to Livingston and the other to ?

What bigs are you thinking?

[GOBOBCATS24]

If we are going to get flip we might as well scratch that and get AI and start him and play him 48 minutes. I have a feeling that unless Nazr is just as good as last year before the back problems then we don't have a lot to look forward to this year.

[GoBobs]

This has been coming for a while. I think Dallas got the better end of that deal for sure. I bet we could have gotten more for Tyson Chandler by trading him to a team like the Thunder esp after everyone has been watching him play for team USA. We also should have gotten more for Oak last year.

I still like some of the recent moves we have made though. Tyrus Thomas is way better then Tyson Chandler. If DJ can step it up some we should be as good as last year.

[ammofan]

F*** this. This is upsetting. I didn't expect Melo or Billups or any big name for that matter but I sure as heck expected someone. Higgins just said how valuable of a trade piece this is, and now we dont use it. How are we gonna build off of our progress from last season if we just keep losing players and getting no real talent in return?

We better be dealing Diaw soon....

Go Cats....

[Mustachio]

Ladies and Gentleman,

Your 2010-2011 Charlotte Bobcats!!!! CATCH THE EXCITEMENT!

http://espn.go.com/nba/teams/depth?team=cha

The race to 35 wins starts now! Get your season tickets today!

[stun704]

Why the fuck is doris meow still ahead of TT on the depth chart, damn this team is pathetic

[Mustachio]

Why the fuck is doris meow still ahead of TT on the depth chart, damn this team is pathetic


hey... we may be pathetic, but at least we're saving some money right?

[ALuhrs704]

i feel like all the energy we had at the end of last season making the playoffs is lost. i only am hoping that there is some moves going on that we dont hear of (like usually) that will happen, but with the money tight i dont see anything that IMPROVES us from last year. it sucks when both teams from the carolinas (us and panthers) are being real cheap and expect the fans to pay. fans are gonna be mad when we make $ saving moves regardless. the faith in the unprovens scares me for next year.

[Demon DeaCat]

It was definitely a gamble, and one well worth taking IMO. If we had been able to cash Damp in for a major contributer, MJ and Rod would be heralded as geniuses. It didn't work out so we did the only logical thing, which was to waive him. I'm quite certain we got some offers, probably for some decent players, but MJ said all along that we weren't going into the LT unless is was a guy who could take us to the next level. I agree that it didn't make sense to go over and take back a guy who would only result in a marginal improvement.

In the end the timing just wasn't right. Had this been last year when everyone was scurrying to clear cap space for the free agent bonanza we probably could have named our price. But with several teams out there already below the cap and few big FAs to be had next summer, there just wasn't much of a market for that chip. CP was definitely our best shot to use it. We'll probably never know how close we really were to pulling that off. Maybe we weren't close at all and maybe we were, but were aren't even in the discussion if we don't have Damp so I don't fault them for trying. All it cost us was an underperforming center in TC. Not that he wouldn't have helped us, but I have a hard time believing he'll be the difference between us beeing a playoff team or not. I think we need to sign Flip back and call it a day.

[BETCATS]

It's Josh Boone and Earl Watson time! (please please please please please)

[dvdbumpus]

It's Josh Boone and Earl Watson time! (please please please please please)

I'll take Josh Boone, or even Ike Diogu at this point in time. I'd prefer loading up on bigs, because I at least see some potential with the PG's.

So we now have 14 players on the roster, and have needs at the 1 and the 5. We're screwed. Players named Mcguire, Najera, Collins, Diop, Kwame, Carroll and others do not inspire confidence in getting to the playoffs. Thomas, Diaw (if he's still here....likely will be with crappy contract), Augustin, Livingston, and Henderson will really have to step up to have repeated success.

That's a lot more ifs then I'd like to have.

[murphman]

It was definitely a gamble, and one well worth taking IMO. If we had been able to cash Damp in for a major contributer, MJ and Rod would be heralded as geniuses. It didn't work out so we did the only logical thing, which was to waive him. I'm quite certain we got some offers, probably for some decent players, but MJ said all along that we weren't going into the LT unless is was a guy who could take us to the next level. I agree that it didn't make sense to go over and take back a guy who would only result in a marginal improvement

One has to wonder if the moves of the Miami Heat sort of upped the ante a bit with MJ's plan. Orlando, Boston, Mil. and Atlanta did nothing to get worse so MJ probably thinks that it would take somebody huge like CP3 plus keeping GW and Jax just to have a chance to move into the top three in the division and no team was offering a trade that would let us snag an allstar and keep our other best assets. Hard to justify going into the luxury tax for such a small market team just to improve from a 7th seed to a 5th or 6th.

[G-Force]

Alright, it's time to suck and get in the lottery. Hopefully we can get someone like kyrie Irving or Enes kanter.

[TheBeagle]

It was definitely a gamble, and one well worth taking IMO. If we had been able to cash Damp in for a major contributer, MJ and Rod would be heralded as geniuses. It didn't work out so we did the only logical thing, which was to waive him. I'm quite certain we got some offers, probably for some decent players, but MJ said all along that we weren't going into the LT unless is was a guy who could take us to the next level. I agree that it didn't make sense to go over and take back a guy who would only result in a marginal improvement.

In the end the timing just wasn't right. Had this been last year when everyone was scurrying to clear cap space for the free agent bonanza we probably could have named our price. But with several teams out there already below the cap and few big FAs to be had next summer, there just wasn't much of a market for that chip. CP was definitely our best shot to use it. We'll probably never know how close we really were to pulling that off. Maybe we weren't close at all and maybe we were, but were aren't even in the discussion if we don't have Damp so I don't fault them for trying. All it cost us was an underperforming center in TC. Not that he wouldn't have helped us, but I have a hard time believing he'll be the difference between us beeing a playoff team or not. I think we need to sign Flip back and call it a day. Nice post. When the CP gambit fell through, I assumed what happened today was going to happen. Even up to yesterday I hoped that we could get Chauncey or Thompson, but was fully expected a waive, and honestly, not terribly upset to see it happen for reasons Demon mentions above.

This isn't the news anybody wanted, but it's not disaster. Whether before the season, or as a vintage early season trade, I expect to get some help at 5 and/or 1, and our Cats will be competitive, which is all I've ever asked.

IMJIT

[CatNation]

this is why I don't get my hopes up

[Scottley Crue]

Nice post. When the CP gambit fell through, I assumed what happened today was going to happen. Even up to yesterday I hoped that we could get Chauncey or Thompson, but was fully expected a waive, and honestly, not terribly upset to see it happen for reasons Demon mentions above.

This isn't the news anybody wanted, but it's not disaster. Whether before the season, or as a vintage early season trade, I expect to get some help at 5 and/or 1, and our Cats will be competitive, which is all I've ever asked.

IMJIT
You took the words right out of my mouth. It's not the most ideal outcome, but it's far from bad. I imagine Rod got many calls about this, though it was probably other teams trying to dump their long, undesirable "mistake" contracts on the 'Cats. I too have no doubt that there will be a trade at some point and I do think this team will be very competitive, which is the main thing I ask for as well.

[ammofan]

I just have a question....alot of you were saying how we need to save money and all but now we do save alot of money and you all complain....

[BlockParty]

This is similar to John Fox's approach that a Punt isn't a bad play. We made the right decision today, we have flexibility leading into the season and will be able to make a trade if we see value (hence not taking back a back-end loaded death sentence contract like Diop's).

Besides, we could've done alot worse (Arenas' contract from Washington, renting Melo for a season, etc.)

Patience young planeteers, the Force is with us (still). :biggrin:

[millst2]

Well getting under the LT doesnt hurt my feelings at all. For years a lot of people in here were all hell bent on how bad the FO sucked and kept signing players to stupid contracts. I actually applaud the FO this yr for trying to make something happen, and ignoring all the stupid offers like TJ Ford and Calderon.

We still have 5 million, I say we grab a couple of guys to round out the bench, and just make a run at it. Worst case scenario we get rid of a few contracts and we suck this yr.

I agree with one of the other posters, sign AI to a 1 yr minimum loaded down with a bunch of stipulations, and grab another big who can play the 4/5 and lets see what we can do. There is real no bad scenario with our roster, worse case is that we dont make the playoffs but have less on the books next yr.

I know the AI threads have been going for a long time, but he can score, plays hard needs to prove himself to the league and naysayers, and he would damn sure do a better job than DJ.

Again we have nothing to lose by loading up on some million dollar players who can show signs of their former selves.

[BlockParty]

I agree with one of the other posters, sign AI to a 1 yr minimum loaded down with a bunch of stipulations, and grab another big who can play the 4/5 and lets see what we can do. There is real no bad scenario with our roster, worse case is that we dont make the playoffs but have less on the books next yr.

I know the AI threads have been going for a long time, but he can score, plays hard needs to prove himself to the league and naysayers, and he would damn sure do a better job than DJ.


Can we choose sticking ourselves in the eye with a sharp object instead of signing AI? He's a ticking time bomb that is too self-absorbed and the furthest thing from what we need to do to Capt Jack and GW.

[GOBOBCATS24]

We do NOT have 5 million dollars to spend. Whoever said that doesn't realize the bind we are currently in. We have 2.2 Million bucks we can put on someone. probably all on one person. I doubt it gets used but you never know.

[teej]

We do NOT have 5 million dollars to spend. Whoever said that doesn't realize the bind we are currently in. We have 2.2 Million bucks we can put on someone. probably all on one person. I doubt it gets used but you never know.

2.2 plus unlimited minimums. You sign 1 with the 2.2, another with the vet min (1.4), and you have room for a third vet min at 1.4 to get to 5.

[GOBOBCATS24]

I understand that but these people are acting like we have 5 to spend on one person. Thats what I was getting at.

[teej]

I understand that but these people are acting like we have 5 to spend on one person. Thats what I was getting at.

There's no one left worth more than 2.2 mil, so that part doesn't matter.

[GOBOBCATS24]

We will just have to see how it all works out. I don't think we will have anywhere near this roster by midseason, but i could be wrong

[Scottley Crue]

2.2 plus unlimited minimums. You sign 1 with the 2.2, another with the vet min (1.4), and you have room for a third vet min at 1.4 to get to 5.
Silly question, but that's never stopped me before...How much does the vet min count against the cap? I know the team only pays part of it and the league the other part, but I don't know if it works the same way with regards to cap space.

[teej]

Silly question, but that's never stopped me before...How much does the vet min count against the cap? I know the team only pays part of it and the league the other part, but I don't know if it works the same way with regards to cap space.

It counts fully to the cap, but only as 860k to Mike's wallet.

[Scottley Crue]

It counts fully to the cap, but only as 860k to Mike's wallet.
Ok, thanks. I was thinking we weren't $5 million under the lux tax, so I was trying to figure how we could do all that an not go over it. That's what I get for thinking, I suppose.

I'd like to see what we could get Earl Watson for. Love to get him for the min and nab two of the best bigs we can with the remaining spots.

[catsandheels]

Since were obviously not trying to get better right away do you think it would be smart to try and deal some of our vetrens like jack for picks or young prospects so we can start building for the future.

[ND22]

Since were obviously not trying to get better right away do you think it would be smart to try and deal some of our vetrens like jack for picks or young prospects so we can start building for the future.

Lets wait until the team is out of the playoff race before that.

I'm personally interested to see what this team can do. In my opinion if we sign anyone else it needs to be a center, of our two weakest positions PG and C, the PG position is in better shape, at least DJ and Liv have upside still.

[dav7z]

I'll take Josh Boone, or even Ike Diogu at this point in time. I'd prefer loading up on bigs, because I at least see some potential with the PG's.

So we now have 14 players on the roster, and have needs at the 1 and the 5. We're screwed. Players named Mcguire, Najera, Collins, Diop, Kwame, Carroll and others do not inspire confidence in getting to the playoffs. Thomas, Diaw (if he's still here....likely will be with crappy contract), Augustin, Livingston, and Henderson will really have to step up to have repeated success.

That's a lot more ifs then I'd like to have.

Ike Diogu has tons of up side and could actually earn quility time under Brown.

Flip helps scoring and can play some point.
AI would fill seats but might hurt the devolopment of DJ and Livingston. Then again AI under Brown might work out great??
Im not that wild about Boone but wouldn't mind if we signed him .

But i think it's in MJs best instrest to sign a couple of thease guys . Just to show fans hes trying to add some quility. But we need to stay about 2 milion under the tax in case a nice trade comes along and we have to take on a couple milion dollars.

[teej]

Ike Diogu has tons of up side and could actually earn quility time under Brown.

He's 27. You don't get upside much longer...

[dav7z]

He's 27. You don't get upside much longer...

He finished last season very strong . Posting big numbers the last 10 or so games when given playing time. He produces problem is hes a p/f and i think p/g and center are positions of more need.

Earl Barron is another one to look at , He averaged better than 10 and 10 for the Knicks to end the season.

[Chef]

Since were obviously not trying to get better right away do you think it would be smart to try and deal some of our vetrens like jack for picks or young prospects so we can start building for the future.

boris + jax for vc + daniel orton or next years first

why: we get rid of jax's contract while replacing much of his scoring. vc is a huge expiring that will have alot of value IF we are out of it in feb. if not we let him expire and realize the cap room. we also get either a very raw center (we've been down this road before) or a late 1st rounder.

why for orlando: gets them two pieces they need for multiple championships

i've posted this before and i know you guys hate vc. i don't like him either, but if we aren't in contention with our largely veteran based team, we have to break it down before it gets too bad. again, vc can replace much of jax scoring and handle some point if we had to have him do it.

[EC123]

Thank you Bobcats for giving me one less thing to be distracted with this season...YOU and the NBA.

F_ck this season.

[EC123]

Well, I hope we are pleasantly surprised by the developement of DJ, Hendo and UPS. For us to get back to the playoffs, they are going to have to step it up.

The Bobcats are not going back to the Playoffs. Won't even be close.

[BlockParty]

The Bobcats are not going back to the Playoffs. Won't even be close.

Which 8 teams are going to the playoffs above them (and not even be close)? Miami, Orlando, Boston, Chicago and Milwaukee in the top 5

next would be 6. Atlanta,

7. Charlotte

then maybe for 8. New York?

that leaves (in no particular order) Washington, Cleveland, Indiana, Toronto, Philadelphia, New Jersey and Detroit.

[SWedd523]

Lmao at all of the people saying we're going to suck and be in the lottery and not even sniff the playoffs.

[Fred Williamson]

omg I'm shocked. I didn't see that one coming. :facepalm:

[Toocool]

Well...I was kind of hoping for something better than just waiving him...but oh well. Such is life, and should of expected it somewhat since this is the Bobcats we're talking about.

[Fred Williamson]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/TripleAInc/lb-mj.jpg

[DY_nasty]

Lmao at all of the people saying we're going to suck and be in the lottery and not even sniff the playoffs.
Pretty much this.

[stun704]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/TripleAInc/lb-mj.jpg
:D so funny but so true :facepalm:

[Fred Williamson]

Well guys, who cares anyway. We are Bobcats fans, we are used to go through **** like this.

I wonder what's MJs next move...trade Crash for TJ Ford maybe? :g:

[Mustachio]

Lmao at all of the people saying we're going to suck and be in the lottery and not even sniff the playoffs.


If your goal as a team is to make the playoffs. you're pathetic.

who cares if we make it to the playoffs. id rather get a good draft pick and some hope than be a sacrificial lamb to one of the giants.

I'm not being pessimistic here. Im being real. This team isnt good enough to beat any of the top 6 teams in the East over a 7 game series. Just not enough talent. and I'm not even talking just about PG and C. Im talking 1-5, we can't match up with any of the good teams.

Sure we may be one of the best of the rest garbage East teams like NY and Cleveland. Sure we may slime our way into the post season by default. So we get into the playoffs get slaughtered and i mean slaughtered by one of the good teams and then get left out of the lottery. Thats an awesome game plan!!! woo hoo for mediocrity for the next forseeable future!

Dropping Damp isnt even really that big of a deal, it was worth a shot and it didnt happen. Its just the straw that broke this camels back. Another dot in a long and apparently never ending line of disappointing, mediocre moves.

[EC123]

Which 8 teams are going to the playoffs above them (and not even be close)? Miami, Orlando, Boston, Chicago and Milwaukee in the top 5

next would be 6. Atlanta,

7. Charlotte

then maybe for 8. New York?

that leaves (in no particular order) Washington, Cleveland, Indiana, Toronto, Philadelphia, New Jersey and Detroit.

Keep fooling yourself. They barely made the Playoffs last season and are significantly worse.

Yes SIGNIFICANTLY worse. How long before you realize that Augustin and Diaw still on this team kills any chance it had?

Two weeks tops?

[DY_nasty]

YES

Only a matter of time before Augustin destroys the team from the inside out!

[DCW]

I think DJ could suprise some people this yr, once he's actually given the chance to play heavy minutes.

[SWedd523]

Significantly worse? How so?

DJ and Livingston can capably replace Felton and Tyson played 20 minutes a game. I'm sure we can replace that too.



I mean seriously. We aren't any worse than we were last year. If anything, we're better: having Jack and Tyrus for the entire year to developing a connection and developing DJ, Hendo, and Brown.

[ALuhrs704]

Significantly worse? How so?

DJ and Livingston can capably replace Felton and Tyson played 20 minutes a game. I'm sure we can replace that too.



I mean seriously. We aren't any worse than we were last year. If anything, we're better: having Jack and Tyrus for the entire year to developing a connection and developing DJ, Hendo, and Brown.

I Agree with you 100%. Tyson is the easiest one to fill, mainly because he didnt do anything. and honestly dj and livingston may work out better than felton. i think everyones dissapointed that we havent improved with so players we heard of (cough dominic mcguire?)

[ALuhrs704]

and i'd put money on it that diaw is gone before the end of the season. he's gotta have enough value to get some1 better than what we got now (hopefully a C)

[spectre]

Y'all forgetting about Theo? Not only did we lose TC but we lost him as well.

Wonder if Pop has another big he can gift us?

[dav7z]

I think DJ could suprise some people this yr, once he's actually given the chance to play heavy minutes.
Its no way in hell DJ can run the team as a starter . He just doesn't have the ability to get the offence started quick enough . Sure he can hit the open long ball but thats about all he can do. Im hopeing Livingston can run the team and his knee holds up. Collins might be able to get the offence started . We can only hope or sign a experianced vetran.

At the 5 position the drop off will little if any at all . Nazz proved he could start . I expect to see a lot of small line ups. Brown should be able to produce about as much as Chandler did. The main problem at five is seting the pick and playing the pick . If we can do that we ok thair.

Signing Flip would make me feel much better at both the point and the two guard positions.I like Hendo but Flip would be a nice safty net at both positions.

[ALuhrs704]

Its no way in hell DJ can run the team as a starter . He just doesn't have the ability to get the offence started quick enough . Sure he can hit the open long ball but thats about all he can do. Im hopeing Livingston can run the team and his knee holds up. Collins might be able to get the offence started . We can only hope or sign a experianced vetran.

At the 5 position the drop off will little if any at all . Nazz proved he could start . I expect to see a lot of small line ups. Brown should be able to produce about as much as Chandler did. The main problem at five is seting the pick and playing the pick . If we can do that we ok thair.

Signing Flip would make me feel much better at both the point and the two guard positions.I like Hendo but Flip would be a nice safty net at both positions.
there is no way in hell you can say there is no way in hell that dj cant run the offensive. why cant he? he did alright his rookie year. he did bad last year. to completely so he cant do it is a joke. dj's chances are wayyy better than sherron collins chancing of runn the point. i want flip too, but its not like he is out there dishing assists. we'll know about dj quick into the season thats for sure tho.

[dunnlx]

I have to agree. :(


Thank you Bobcats for giving me one less thing to be distracted with this season...YOU and the NBA.

F_ck this season.

[teej]

Y'all forgetting about Theo? Not only did we lose TC but we lost him as well.

Wonder if Pop has another big he can gift us?

True, but by the end of the year it was clear Theo had used up his legs. They were gone within two months, and LB overplayed him.

[TheBeagle]

Y'all forgetting about Theo? Not only did we lose TC but we lost him as well.

Wonder if Pop has another big he can gift us? LOL. I was thinking about how the roster now compares to late last year, and I was feeling good 'til I got to the 5 and was like, "Oh, yeah, Theo!" Having Gana take Theo's spot is a huge downgrade, but I'm thinking something will be done about that.....and if Pop wants to give us an aging Timmy D or young big Splitter, I'd be okay with that :cool:

[BlockParty]

Nice to see more explaination finally coming out on the timing of the waiver....though it's about the same thing we talked about on the 11th at BCP. http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2010/09/15/1694786/injury-risk-was-a-factor-in-bobcats.html

"That, a team source described, was the incentive for Tuesday’s decision to waive center Dampier, rather than continue searching for a deal two weeks out from training camp.

The source, speaking anonymously because of the sensitivity of the subject, explained that while Dampier’s $13 million isn’t guaranteed for performance, it would be for health. Thus, if Dampier suffered a season-ending injury, the Bobcats would have been liable for $13 million, plus a potential $7 million in NBA-imposed luxury tax.

With all that at stake, the team abandoned their search for a trade that would both reduce its payroll to below the tax threshold and acquire another asset."

[SWedd523]

Not forgetting Theo. Just not fully buying into him being a saving grace for us. He wasn't anything more than an enforcer, one on one type guy who would push people around. And he got progressively worse as the season went.

Kwame is actually a really good man defender and can adequately replace that production.


The only issue is finding a guy to defend the P&R. And to that, I don't think it'll be that tough--Play Boris at C. The Random times we play a Center who can pull up from 15, trot Boris out there and let him D up. Otherwise, like Tyrus switch off and use his athleticism to cover it and let Nazr, Kwame, Diop stay home and patrol.

[ohara831]

I think the Bonnell article on explaining why the Cats decided to waive Dampier now rather than later sheds a light on this of which I previously had not been aware. I can see an "injury" popping up suddenly and real soon. Cannot say I would be surprised either, especially if it meant the difference between $13 mil and something like $2 mil for the year. Heck, I might very well have come up with an "injury" in that situation. And if it happened, the Cats would be stuck in the LT and MJ would be so very pissed off.

[dav7z]

there is no way in hell you can say there is no way in hell that dj cant run the offensive. why cant he? he did alright his rookie year. he did bad last year. to completely so he cant do it is a joke. dj's chances are wayyy better than sherron collins chancing of runn the point. i want flip too, but its not like he is out there dishing assists. we'll know about dj quick into the season thats for sure tho.

DJ shot the ball well his rookie season . But not that well last season . I think a lot of his shoting trubles was due to him not being able to start a play quick enough. See last season DJ didn't get that much time playing beside Felton . He played beside Flip and his role was more about starting the play . Thats the main reason most say he had a off year.But the fact was it would take him way to long to get the play started. Last season he was 16 seconds into the clock be for he started the play. Forcing him to try and take his man one on one way to often. IF and its a big IF he can learn clock management to run proper plays, He might be ok. Im pulling for him hes a BOBCAT. He just plays off the ball better. And his role will be to create for team mates.

[Scottley Crue]

I think the Bonnell article on explaining why the Cats decided to waive Dampier now rather than later sheds a light on this of which I previously had not been aware. I can see an "injury" popping up suddenly and real soon. Cannot say I would be surprised either, especially if it meant the difference between $13 mil and something like $2 mil for the year. Heck, I might very well have come up with an "injury" in that situation. And if it happened, the Cats would be stuck in the LT and MJ would be so very pissed off.
You know, I had not thought about it that way before with an "instant injury" to assure himself of the money. I knew they could be on the hook for all $13 mil if he was hurt, but figured they would wait until a few days before camps open to work on any deals that may have needed more time. I could see getting signs that an "injury" was coming moving this decision up.

[Scottley Crue]

DJ shot the ball well his rookie season . But not that well last season . I think a lot of his shoting trubles was due to him not being able to start a play quick enough. See last season DJ didn't get that much time playing beside Felton . He played beside Flip and his role was more about starting the play . Thats the main reason most say he had a off year.But the fact was it would take him way to long to get the play started. Last season he was 16 seconds into the clock be for he started the play. Forcing him to try and take his man one on one way to often. IF and its a big IF he can learn clock management to run proper plays, He might be ok. Im pulling for him hes a BOBCAT. He just plays off the ball better. And his role will be to create for team mates.
DJ does have a habit of dribbling the air out of the ball. I'm sure if he's getting the lion's share of minutes at that LB will break him of that.

[spectre]

We did ok while Nazr was healthy, but that only lasted like 50 games into the season. Without the Theo infusion and TC playing more we'd have been screwed.

I'm more than willing to give Kwame a chance, but from everything I've read he's pretty dumb from a BBIQ standpoint. That and a bigger role for Gana doesn't reassure me at all.

[Chef]

I think the Bonnell article on explaining why the Cats decided to waive Dampier now rather than later sheds a light on this of which I previously had not been aware. I can see an "injury" popping up suddenly and real soon. Cannot say I would be surprised either, especially if it meant the difference between $13 mil and something like $2 mil for the year. Heck, I might very well have come up with an "injury" in that situation. And if it happened, the Cats would be stuck in the LT and MJ would be so very pissed off.

i would have made him get into a bubble boy ball or the next month and taken my time looking for deal.

[Toocool]

We did ok while Nazr was healthy, but that only lasted like 50 games into the season. Without the Theo infusion and TC playing more we'd have been screwed.

I'm more than willing to give Kwame a chance, but from everything I've read he's pretty dumb from a BBIQ standpoint. That and a bigger role for Gana doesn't reassure me at all.

I much rather have Kwame playing than Diop. Gana can do crapall besides sit on a bench, and has done seemingly nothing to his game since coming to the league. Another shot-blocking big man who has no talent offensively due to not working hard enough...much like TC.

Here's to hoping TT has put on 5 kgs of muscle in those chicken arms and can average a double/double to fix the deficiency at the 5. Time for him to have a breakout season.

[ALuhrs704]

DJ does have a habit of dribbling the air out of the ball. I'm sure if he's getting the lion's share of minutes at that LB will break him of that.
Agreed. i mean im not saying DJ is the answer and is gonna be good enough to start but he's shown flashes of why he can and why he cant. plus i never got why the pg on our teams do that like half spin at the top of the key before we set anything up in halfcourt offense. does ne 1 know why? felton and dj both did this alot. just seemed odd.

[BRNC]

I really understand why some folks are upset but I tend toward "I'm glad the FO tried something" line of thought...

I'm not excited about our PG line-up but what the heck...I'll give it a shot...

...and I'm definitely in the Nazr side and really hope he stays healthy...he was a lot better than anything TC gave...

[spectre]

From James the Aussie on RoF:


According to every metric at 82games.com Kwame Brown is worse than DeSagana Diop was last year:
- Diop has a higher PER
- Diop has a lower opponent PER
- The net per 48 production with Kwame Brown was -9.9
- The net per 48 production with DeSagana Diop was -5.5
- Diop was a better shot blocker
- Kwame Brown had worse effective field goal shooting

We need to trade for someone… committee only works if the players are halfway decent.
If we’re supposed to hang out hat on Boris Diaw at C we’re in trouble. He was terrible at center in 2009-10. Boris was a +4.5 at SF, +1.7 at PF and then -5.0 at C
Must make Gana feel better; he's finally better than another C on the roster! :facepalm:

I will say I think Kwame will contribute more than Gana barring an epiphany...but we're talking better than warmed over crap.

[CarolinaBlue23]

People are posting how they are disappointed that Dampier was waived and if Jordan was cash strapped he shouldn't have bought the team. Are you serious? Dampier is not this great center the organization let walk away. Then there are others that mention Tyson Chandler like he is the second coming of Tim Duncan when he isn't injured. Did you really expect Jordan to pay the luxury tax after he sat there during the playoffs and watched HIS team get swept in the first round? If the team had made the Eastern Conference Finals and was one big move away from winning it all, then I could see paying the tax. Teams like the Lakers and the Mavericks have owners that have money to burn. They also have fans that sellout every game and they have had success for years. The Bobcats are just getting where companies want to get on board and fans want to be a part of it. What about the off season moves? I am sure the only real bargaining chip the Bobcats have is Gerald Wallace and if he was traded everybody on this board would be raising hell if it didn't bring CP3 in return. Right now, making this organization more financially stable and appealing to free agents is the best move to make.

[spectre]

I don't think anyone other than one or two is advocating or implying that 1) Dampier was going to play in Charlotte this year at his (not so) current deal or 2) MJ should pay the tax.

*It appears (haven't personally done the math) that we could have kept TC and signed Livingston while still staying under the LT without taking on Carroll & Nagera. By itself that's a huge difference financially.

*No one is saying TC = 2nd coming of Tim Duncan. There's a heckuva spread between that and being better than Kwame & Gana. Not to mention TC was a 13 million plus EXPIRING this year.

I applaud the gamble to land CP. Big thing though...don't you think Dallas had at the least as good talent to add to DUST as we did? If Cuban gave up after reportedly trying just the week before our deal why would we think Shinn would trade him to us instead?

Maybe MJ and CP talked...and odds are they did even tho that'd be illegal. If they did then I think MJ did the right thing.

I do NOT understand why they didn't at the very least make a deal with a team like Minny for a trade exception for some cash. It'd be free money for the other team and it'd leave our options open.

The injury thing seems kinda BS to me. Were they afraid he'd get hit by a car or something? It'd have to be a pretty good injury; his contract wouldn't be fully guaranteed until January. From season start til then it'd be prorated (still a nice sum)...and the tax isn't calculated til the end of the year.

[dav7z]

Agreed. i mean im not saying DJ is the answer and is gonna be good enough to start but he's shown flashes of why he can and why he cant. plus i never got why the pg on our teams do that like half spin at the top of the key before we set anything up in halfcourt offense. does ne 1 know why? felton and dj both did this alot. just seemed odd.

It drives me crazy. Felton did it two . But Felton seemed to start the play about 10 seconds into the clock . While DJ seemed to start around the 16 second mark??

I all ways thought we played better, pressing, playing the passing lanes and running.
Another thing DJ did was get the ball down the court dribble into the lane . And never be able to find a open man on the break. He would either dribble back out of the lane or get his shot blocked. At 6,7 Livingston no doubt will finish better. But i don't know he has the wheels to get down the court.

[dav7z]

From James the Aussie on RoF:

Must make Gana feel better; he's finally better than another C on the roster! :facepalm:

I will say I think Kwame will contribute more than Gana barring an epiphany...but we're talking better than warmed over crap.

OK Spectre you won me over . Why do you think we let so many contributers get away and end up signing way down the list , Miller, Ratliff for example could of been had Even Addmuson ? Why do you think we not trying to add a little quility now in Flip. We appear to be staying with what we have.

For some reason i have a feeling Brown isn't making desisions any more on the players. I get the feeling Higgins is running the show . I all so get the inpression Brown isn't happy hear any more. If thats the case we in for a long season.

[spectre]

OK Spectre you won me over . Why do you think we let so many contributers get away and end up signing way down the list , Miller, Ratliff for example could of been had Even Addmuson ? Why do you think we not trying to add a little quility now in Flip. We appear to be staying with what we have.

For some reason i have a feeling Brown isn't making desisions any more on the players. I get the feeling Higgins is running the show . I all so get the inpression Brown isn't happy hear any more. If thats the case we in for a long season.

I think:

*Brown knew we were going to be making financial decisions and that caused him to not want to be here this season.

*We let Felton go because 1) subpar play in the playoffs was a big factor to Jordan 2) we felt we could get something as good in trade, therefore staying under the LT 3) We valued Tyrus more.

*Since we did C by committee it looks like they think they can get by without TC and planned on using him as trade bait for said PG. Maybe they wanted Theo back but he wanted to chase a ring? The Lakers are certainly a decent bet in that regard. By reports we were interested in Admunson, but unless I'm mistaken he got more money than we had to offer from the GSW.

*Dampier = gamble for CP. That was worth passing on a PG with a high contract vs staying status quo (and it's still not assured we don't still do something along those lines to upgrade the PG spot).

IMO we'll bring in someone else with that 2.2 left from the MLE and we'll most likely make a trade where we take more back. Probably Hughes or Flip. I doubt seriously Hendo nor Carroll get steady significant minutes under LB.

[SWedd523]

Maybe because Theo wanted to play in LA to chase a ring instead of Charlotte? The only real contributor we lost was Ray and I'm pretty sure we can replace him. Dav, I think you're reading into it way too much. I certainly understand where you're coming from, but I don't see how we got worse.

Now for a different topic: For those complaining about trading an expiring (Tyson) in a salary dump, do you realize that Dampier's contract is the exact same? 1 year at a huge amount. We traded an expiring for an even better expiring. That counts as something good, not bad. Neither one was worth their deals so having DUST was way more valuable than Tyson (who had a fantastic worlds btw).


It didn't work out. We tried to flip his contract into something extremely valuable. All of the people bitching about it falling through and the FO being failures would be singing a completely different tune had the gamble worked. Take that into perspective the next time you deride the top guys for attempting to make us a better team.


There's nothing more annoying than hypocritical crybabies who complain about everything. We've done nothing but improve since LB/MJ took the lead (as a team and franchise) so why are we going to all of a sudden go back to the dumpster? MJ's competitive nature will not let us suck.

IMJIT & Playoffs '11!

[BRNC]

I'm glad the FO gave it a try with Damp...

Ray hurt himself by not taking the contract offered last year...again not the FO fault and I applaud them for not over-paying him this year...

I hope TT plays up to his contract...I'm on the fence there...

The FO made some tough choices but I agreed with what they tried to do...

I had the feeling when last season ended LB was looking to leave...that's just LB...but I hope it does not effect the players...that (LB and greener pastures) more than our PG and C depth bothers me most heading into the season...

[BlockParty]

For some reason i have a feeling Brown isn't making desisions any more on the players. I get the feeling Higgins is running the show . I all so get the inpression Brown isn't happy hear any more. If thats the case we in for a long season.

For starters, I respect LB and his ability to identify talent that he believes he can improve with his teaching skillset. Having said that, he's a 70 year old and threw a mini-tantrum this offseason when MJ made it clear if he went elsewhere to coach, the Bobcats would be compensated, and therefore he's worn out his boiler plate all-knowing demands for trades. MJ is smart enough to realize, to not gamble on long-term contracts on unproven free-agents or trades, that are only done to appease Larry (minus the occassional veteran minimum contract).

Just because a player is a perfect LB player doesn't mean he'll be a perfect Bobcats player next season when LB retires. If anything, caution (like waiving Damp instead of trading him and staying in the Luxury Tax), is a responsible move given the fact that we probably stand a 50% or greater change of having someone other than Larry Brown coaching next season.

[spectre]

The only real contributor we lost was Ray and I'm pretty sure we can replace him.

That'll be determined. Hopefully you're right, but his replacements have issues to overcome.


Now for a different topic: For those complaining about trading an expiring (Tyson) in a salary dump, do you realize that Dampier's contract is the exact same? 1 year at a huge amount. We traded an expiring for an even better expiring. That counts as something good, not bad. Neither one was worth their deals so having DUST was way more valuable than Tyson (who had a fantastic worlds btw).

You're neglecting to mention the salary we took on to have the instant expiring...not to mention the guy we used the 20th pick on (which we traded for).


It didn't work out. We tried to flip his contract into something extremely valuable. All of the people bitching about it falling through and the FO being failures would be singing a completely different tune had the gamble worked. Take that into perspective the next time you deride the top guys for attempting to make us a better team.

There's nothing more annoying than hypocritical crybabies who complain about everything. We've done nothing but improve since LB/MJ took the lead (as a team and franchise) so why are we going to all of a sudden go back to the dumpster? MJ's competitive nature will not let us suck.

IMJIT & Playoffs '11!

Agreed for the most part. I don't necessarily agree that we've improved from the last season to right now...but I've no doubt we will look to in the very near future assuming the main young guys don't "get it".

[Muttley]

There's nothing more annoying than hypocritical crybabies who complain about everything.

+1

[10 chars]

[SWedd523]

That'll be determined. Hopefully you're right, but his replacements have issues to overcome.
Certainly, but it's not like we tried to keep Ray in town. Last year he turned us down and that was that. And while he's "solid", I certainly applaud the FO for not giving him what he was demanding as he's not worth that. DJ/Livvy for half the price as Ray makes all sorts of sense to me.




You're neglecting to mention the salary we took on to have the instant expiring...not to mention the guy we used the 20th pick on (which we traded for).
First and foremost, Lexy is a bum and has no value whatsoever, he wouldn't have played for us anyway. It was a failed experiment and it's time to move on. He wasn't our target anyway but that's another topic for another time. As far as Hammer/Eddie go, I think you (and everyone else) are overstating their contracts. Eddie is making 2.8 this year and 2.6 next year to be an energy guy and do dirty work. Hammer is Getting 4.3, 3.9, and 3.5 to be our marksman and zonebuster--a huge need. Both contracts decrease and both can be effective for us.

I'd rather pay them 7mil than pay Tyson 13mil.




Agreed for the most part. I don't necessarily agree that we've improved from the last season to right now...but I've no doubt we will look to in the very near future assuming the main young guys don't "get it".
our improvements as a franchise (season tix, sponsorships, etc) outweigh whatever minimal drop in talent. That may be hard to swallow, but the sooner we turn into a profitable business, the sooner MJ will dip into his pockets to make us better. Keeping Ray/Tyson doesn't make us better than what we are without them (first round Playoffs) so I certainly approve of him saving that money and applying it to us being a profitable team sooner.


(I apologize if this post was illegible, I'm using my phone in class :))

[dav7z]

Maybe because Theo wanted to play in LA to chase a ring instead of Charlotte? The only real contributor we lost was Ray and I'm pretty sure we can replace him. Dav, I think you're reading into it way too much. I certainly understand where you're coming from, but I don't see how we got worse.

Now for a different topic: For those complaining about trading an expiring (Tyson) in a salary dump, do you realize that Dampier's contract is the exact same? 1 year at a huge amount. We traded an expiring for an even better expiring. That counts as something good, not bad. Neither one was worth their deals so having DUST was way more valuable than Tyson (who had a fantastic worlds btw).


It didn't work out. We tried to flip his contract into something extremely valuable. All of the people bitching about it falling through and the FO being failures would be singing a completely different tune had the gamble worked. Take that into perspective the next time you deride the top guys for attempting to make us a better team.


There's nothing more annoying than hypocritical crybabies who complain about everything. We've done nothing but improve since LB/MJ took the lead (as a team and franchise) so why are we going to all of a sudden go back to the dumpster? MJ's competitive nature will not let us suck.

IMJIT & Playoffs '11!

The crybabie statement is a little harsh . With the repatation and great post and extream reasoning you have? You and Spectre i have the up most respect for on the forum

I can't see any where on any statement Me, Spectre, or any one being hypocritcal . I see doubt wondering , confusion , about the direction we taking. I will addmit im very confused about our off season . It seemed to me to have no true purpose or direction.

1st letting Felton walk , We all think or hope CP3 was the reason. But then we signed Livingston very early limiting cap space more . Do you think Livingston was our plan all along. Its hard for me to think he was the up grade Higgins spoke about . If so its means hes set to be our starter.?? I just don't understand that move. Sweed , your thoughts ??
Do you not see a need for a saftey net hear [Filp type]

2nd I can see Spectres point about the TC trade . We took on seven milion in contracts [ Carroll and Najira] for the next three years . Was acuiring thease guys part of any long range plan or direction. I don't see distruction at the five spot at all . But i don't see any up grade thair at all . Chandler didn't produce much last season ,and Brown is a cheap replacment. Sweed what is your thought on taking on thease two contracts. Did it not limit our ability to acuire a quility player ??

3rd Im a hudge L Brown fan . But i havn't seen not one artical or read any statement Brown has made about the team at all , Whitch is the exact oppsite of Browns actions last off season, Nothing on trades , nothing on summer camp , Nothing at all, He even refused any statements at the mini camps. Sweed can you help explain this one to me ? See i just don't understand the direction hear.

Sorry if this makes me sound like a hypocritcal crybabie. But i just don't understand thease moves ,. Sweed , you and Spectre both know our team inside out and are two of the most logical posters on the forum .

Do you not see my reason for doubt

[spectre]

Certainly, but it's not like we tried to keep Ray in town. Last year he turned us down and that was that. And while he's "solid", I certainly applaud the FO for not giving him what he was demanding as he's not worth that. DJ/Livvy for half the price as Ray makes all sorts of sense to me.

You didn't mention money in the post I responded to, so I took it in regards to whether we gain/lose on the court.

I don't know that the FO was that concerned either in actually paying Felton that kind of contract...this is the same group that almost traded for Caleron making over 30 million for 3 years.

Do you think he'd be a better bargain?

I don't know at all that "that was that" when Felton didn't sign last season. I think that the decision was made when we traded for Tyrus. When he came on board there had to be a choice; before we could have re-upped him and still avoided the LT. I think Felton's poor showing in the playoffs sealed it.

Avoidance of the LT is what I think drove that cart...not that they thought he was or wasn't worth what he wanted. I do think 8.5 is retail and it'd have been hard for me to pay it.

Personally I don't care how it went down...it is what it is right now. From a talent perspective on the court based on last season we downgraded. If you want to argue finances then that's a different animal.

Livingston's health and his abilities now is the wild card. If he can produce over the season then I might can agree with you.


First and foremost, Lexy is a bum and has no value whatsoever, he wouldn't have played for us anyway. It was a failed experiment and it's time to move on. He wasn't our target anyway but that's another topic for another time.

I know he wasn't our target, but that was the risk they took. All the mocks I saw had our targets going before 20th. Just like with the Damp trade (thinking we could do what Dallas couldn't with less assets)...it at least suggests questionable decision making in the FO.

We should have bailed on him when the time came to pick up the option if it was already determined he was a bum. Was it not so apparent then but it is now? THEN he was a project and were told it'll take time. Spin? They should have been less concerned with appearances and just cut bait then.


As far as Hammer/Eddie go, I think you (and everyone else) are overstating their contracts. Eddie is making 2.8 this year and 2.6 next year to be an energy guy and do dirty work. Hammer is Getting 4.3, 3.9, and 3.5 to be our marksman and zonebuster--a huge need. Both contracts decrease and both can be effective for us.

I'd rather pay them 7mil than pay Tyson 13mil.

...and another 6.5 and another 3.5.

Will Carroll even sniff the court? LB couldn't wait to get rid of him after he came on, and all things point to him being the opposite of what LB wants.

What are the odds we pick up Hughes or Flip in your opinion? If we sign either I think Carroll will do battle with Gana on who gets the most DNP-CD.

TC would be in the rotation assuming he's healthy. At worst he's a nice trade chip in a few months.

FWIW I suspect Nagera will get some burn. If we'd just taken him on as a replacement backup 4 and then moved Boris for another C (like maybe Przybilla) I'd agree with your assessment more.

Again tho...I'm with the FO on taking the gamble. I'm not bitching about it, but I'm not ignoring it either.


our improvements as a franchise (season tix, sponsorships, etc) outweigh whatever minimal drop in talent. That may be hard to swallow, but the sooner we turn into a profitable business, the sooner MJ will dip into his pockets to make us better.

I don't think it's really possible for us to be profitable, but that's beside the point.

Either way...why do you think we're seeing those improvements? If we fail to produce on the court this year don't you think it's possible we could see a reversal to those improvements?

I don't think that really because I assume we'll make some sort of move if we start out badly...but odds are that will entail taking on more salary and hurting us even more in the future.


Keeping Ray/Tyson doesn't make us better than what we are without them (first round Playoffs) so I certainly approve of him saving that money and applying it to us being a profitable team sooner.

But it doesn't make us more profitable sooner. It avoids the LT this year but adds salary next year. We're already looking at 55 million in salary for 9 players with only the MLE/LLE/trades as options for trying to improve.

I'm also nowhere near as sure as you seem to be that this team AS IS is a first round playoff team. Sure Felton was "solid"...but he was the starting point for the #1 defensive team in the league. TC/Theo were the main Cs for the #1 defensive team in the league. They certainly weren't the main reasons for that status...but they definitely contributed to it.

Damn that's a lot of text. Just like with Teej the other day this really isn't worth beating to death. We're not that far apart on our opinons; we're just skating around the particulars.

[BRNC]

I'll try to sum up my thoughts quickly...we have who we have and unless we make a trade or use what MLE we have left we're seeing the picture...

I have no idea if (talent wise) we're better but Ray was a solid player...not great but pretty solid...and none of the three PGs we have on the roster have shown they can be as good as Ray...I'm not saying they can't be...but they (one of them at least) needs to show they can be...if not we are a less talented team IMO...

[Chef]

not beat a dead horse but given the new interest with nj and den concerning melo

favors
murphy
picks

we could have absolutely been the third team. den gets damp, we get murphy. deal done. would we be in the cap, yes. would we be much better and could basically move diaw for a tpe with min, toronto, cle etc.

[NaSDNaS]

I'm still extremely optimistic for the upcoming season. Captain Jack, G-Wal and TT being the main components to our success!