preseason: Charlotte Bobcats at Milwaukee Bucks

[ziggy]

DJ gets a helping of Branding Jennings tonight. I'm looking forward to seeing how he does defensively against him.

Does anyone know if Hendo is playing tonight?

[spectre]

8 PM start.

I was hoping the Brew Crew would stream this game but nothing so far.

http://www.nba.com/bobcats/news/notes.pdf

Per the game notes Hendo is still out. Liv is a game time decision...and lucky us! Darius Miles & Dominic (who the...) McGuire are probable.

[ammofan]

lets get a win!

[spectre]

Milwaukee's audio is up on NBA Audio League Pass.

[spectre]

Milwaukee only has 10 players available. No Bogut, Maggette, Salmons, Brockman, Delfino.

[ammofan]

Y the heck cant we get a stream for a game? Or a game on TV! lol

[dvdbumpus]

Y the heck cant we get a stream for a game? Or a game on TV! lol

Yea! Is there a link for it?

[ballwhore]

So game to game let's see how he do ....ma f#@!@! said westbrok was going to score 30...DJ my boy bottom line it's amazing how yall go game to game...Where the hell you at from last game talkking westbrook going for 30 but dj got his and made him charge two times..that means he was in front of him...Bottom!

[Jennings]

wow! DJ missed a wide open layup....

[BigMike]

Do other teams have to deal with these second rate or nonexistent audio feeds and f'd up score feeds?

[pegsue123]

http://www.nba.com/broadband/alp_schedule.html?registration_url=ALP
pick the Milwaukee feed. It is real good Audio

[Chrystos]

I wonder if it's that the Cats don't care about the preseason, or if it's that there gonna suck this season.

[ohara831]

I wonder if it's that the Cats don't care about the preseason, or if it's that there gonna suck this season.

I hope it is the former, but fear it is the latter.

[SWedd523]

It's ALWAYS been the former, for just about every team in the league. This doom and gloom pre-season crap is getting a little over the top guys

[Toocool]

Crash 29 minutes :facepalm:
Hendo 10 minutes when he's balling well (from stats anyway) :facepalm:
DJ 2 assists (expect more out of him) :facepalm:
Crittenton on the court :facepalm:

[Fred Williamson]

Ish Smith just had a great game with the Rockets (yep, that guy who worked out for our team) and our 3rd point guard dropped 1-8 tonight with the 2 turnovers. fml

[CatNation]

sucks to be a NC professional sports team fan right now. At least the Canes look decent..

[teej]

sucks to be a NC professional sports team fan right now. At least the Canes look decent..

Yeah, although the Wild could just be terrible. Those games in Helsinki were wayyyyy too close. Cam Ward was shaky at times in both games. Sutter is a beast though, and Skinner too.

Back on topic...who gives a fuck about the preseason. It's where the starters get back into game shape and the scrubs battle for a spot, which means the scores are distorted. Until Crash is playing 40 mpg and Jack is taking 20 shots per game, it doesn't matter.

[Lex23]

The lack of pre-season wins doesn't bother me. Right now they are not totally focused on help defense and the Bobcats must figure out the point guard issue. It seems like every other starter has more assists than D.J. in these meaningless games.

[spectre]

The lack of pre-season wins doesn't bother me. Right now they are not totally focused on help defense and the Bobcats must figure out the point guard issue. It seems like every other starter has more assists than D.J. in these meaningless games.

DJ has never racked up a lot of assists. The team doesn't expect a big jump (all the talk about running the O thru Jax/Boris) so we probably shouldn't expect it either.

What concerns me is the defense. Last year Felton had a couple of competent Cs to help him out in P&R...this year we expect Gana and Kwame to play that role. When you get opponent PGs who can drive like last night DJ really doesn't stand a chance...and why Jennings was able to score 13 in a row (10 on DJ). We seemed to do better with Westbrook; however it also seemed that he wasn't driving to the hole like he normally does in that game.

We've debated on which spot is of more concern. Thing is they also affect each other.

I wish Tyrus had played. It'd be interesting to "see" if Gooden could have scored at will against him.

Y'all who are saying preseason is meaningless. I don't necessarilly disagree...but looking at our last couple years when we sucked in preseason we also sucked out the gate until we made a trade to right the ship.

LB's now something like 2 of 15 in preseason in now his 3rd season, right?

*In 08 we started out the 1st month 5 - 11. The losing continued until we made the Phoenix trade.

*In 09 we started out 3 of 9 until we made the Jax trade and he got adjusted.

I don't think preseason can totally be ignored. It's not a definite precursor...but it's pretty obvious this group isn't running like a team who's main components have been together for as long as they have.

[ohara831]

I get what you are saying Spectre, and agree for the most part. But my biggest concern is that in the past when we start off poor, people always say "Give them time to gel as a team." Isn't that what pre-season is for - to get the time to gel when the games don't yet count? This is why we start off the regular season behind the 8 ball. And although I honestly dont think the drop off in talent between last year's team and what we have now is too bad (but it is still significant), I am fearing that not having Ray and TC may be proving to be far more detrimental to the team's chemistry than originally thought. Which is why I want the starters to get more time together to try and gel now - if they can.

[BlockParty]

Most important thing about last night's preseason game (and every preseason game) is we had no significant injuries. Not as much as the NFL, but it is important to see the bubble players perform in real game situations to make sure we make the correct choice on the last 1-3 guys.

Plus LB puts no value in preseason won/loss, and the playing time he gives & lineups he puts out on the court perplex a lot of fans.

We have a hole to fill at PG and DJ will setup. We are actually better off at center than last year (no matter what people say about Chandler's potential, he was horrible for us last year. we will replace that with TT & Boris playing at same time. Each of the other 3 positions we improved by staying the same + TT.

Remember last season during training camp we had no Jax, no TT and no Boris (injury from his national team)
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[SWedd523]

Toronto is currently 3rd in the East
New Jersey is 3-1
Memphis is tops in the West (3-0)
Minnesota is second (2-0)
The Lakers are 0-2 (last place)



Furthermore,

Shelden Williams is 4th in scoring (22) and first in rebounds (14) while Durant is averaging 17 per game.
Ryan Hollins is 5th in rebounds (10)
Martell Webster is 5th in points (21)
Randy Foye (6.3) and Will Bynum (6) are averaging more assists than both Deron (5) and CP3 (4)



I'm not going to worrry about preseason. I remember our preseason last year and we still won 44 games.

[teej]

I'm not going to worrry about preseason. I remember our preseason last year and we still won 44 games.

Exactly. And we all know Larry is going to demand at least one trade (likely DJ or Boris will go) before mid-December, so it doesn't really matter anyways. It doesn't help with seeding at all, but that's how it is. Determining who this year's Stevie Graham and Theo Ratliff are is far more important than winning a preseason game.

[Fred Williamson]

I'm not worried either. I think we lost all our preseason games last year and still won 44 games. The only thing I'm worried about is that old man sitting on our bench.

[spectre]

So in other words you guys are counting on LB bitching enough to where the FO will make a trade to right the ship?

[teej]

So in other words you guys are counting on LB bitching enough to where the FO will make a trade to right the ship?

He's 2-2 in the opening 25 games as a Bobcat coach...why not 3-3?

[spectre]

He's 2-2 in the opening 25 games as a Bobcat coach...why not 3-3?

I think it's likely too, but this offseason was different than the previous 2. Jordan (owner) is now concerned with his pocketbook, and it certainly appears that moves were made that LB wasn't exactly thrilled with.

[dav7z]

So game to game let's see how he do ....ma f#@!@! said westbrok was going to score 30...DJ my boy bottom line it's amazing how yall go game to game...Where the hell you at from last game talkking westbrook going for 30 but dj got his and made him charge two times..that means he was in front of him...Bottom!


I will tell you where the hell i was . I was at the hospital with my wife the past week after her seregy.
I don't call you names like that and im sure as hell not take shit like that from you..
As far as DJ he had a decent game with 10 and 6 against Westbrook but at best decent . So you have no call to talk junk. Against a very undermaned Bucks team he dished out 2 assist , Hell Crash had 5 . Right now DJ is playing like a D league player][ the week link on this team]. So until your boy becomes a STAR don't talk junk about me or my wife . We have enough on us as it is................... To put up with your crap.........

[BlockParty]

I think it's likely too, but this offseason was different than the previous 2. Jordan (owner) is now concerned with his pocketbook, and it certainly appears that moves were made that LB wasn't exactly thrilled with.

I think Jordan will take a different approach than the other Major Pro franchise owner in Charlotte. He will spend money to make money, but only when it makes sense (i.e. no dumb trades like Diop's, not over paying for Felton just because the coach had grown to love him, making a salary dump for chandler that provided for multiple other players-1 or 2 of which probably aren't on our roster yet).

Realistically Larry won't be here after this season, so last thing MJ needs to do is blow up the roster to appease Larry

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[teej]

I think it's likely too, but this offseason was different than the previous 2. Jordan (owner) is now concerned with his pocketbook, and it certainly appears that moves were made that LB wasn't exactly thrilled with.

Bob wasn't concerned with the pocketbook? Both set the luxury tax as the limit, so that hasn't changed...and LB has worn on MJ just like every other job he's had. ROd and Mike have to do what's best both long and short-term, while LB isn't going to be around much longer. In the end, though, they'll find someone undervalued do to his team, and pick him up. Both PHX (08-09) and GSW (09-10) were off to bad starts and had disgruntled vets. Who's that team this year?

[spectre]

Dav I'm very sorry to hear that. Prayers and thoughts to you bud.


I think Jordan will take a different approach than the other Major Pro franchise owner in Charlotte. He will spend money to make money, but only when it makes sense (i.e. no dumb trades like Diop's, not over paying for Felton just because the coach had grown to love him, making a salary dump for chandler that provided for multiple other players-1 or 2 of which probably aren't on our roster yet).

Realistically Larry won't be here after this season, so last thing MJ needs to do is blow up the roster to appease Larry

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We almost traded for Caleron...so I'm in no way comfortable in saying we're not prone to making a dumb trade. I also don't really consider the Dampier trade a good move by itself. We think it was a gamble for a bigger move...but the end result made us worse off financially. We gained a few million in breathing room this season but we cut into the next 2 years...along with acquiring players which is a good possibility won't even see the court under LB.

We don't have a lot of trade assets we're willing to give up except Boris...who most think he's overpaid...and so far an under performing 3rd year PG. We're restricted in money (supposedly), yet a lot here expect LB to work his magic and keep us on the upward path.

Just saying...the road to improvement IMO is more difficult than in years' past. Not saying we won't pull a rabbit out of the hat, but I wouldn't be shocked if to do that we yet again have to take on a bad contract.

[spectre]

Bob wasn't concerned with the pocketbook? Both set the luxury tax as the limit, so that hasn't changed...and LB has worn on MJ just like every other job he's had. ROd and Mike have to do what's best both long and short-term, while LB isn't going to be around much longer. In the end, though, they'll find someone undervalued do to his team, and pick him up. Both PHX (08-09) and GSW (09-10) were off to bad starts and had disgruntled vets. Who's that team this year?

No...MJ wasn't concerned about Bob's pocketbook. He was able to talk him into making trades he probably wouldn't have if MJ wasn't here. The difference this year is we're already up against the LT and are having to sacrifice play on the court. That hasn't happened before.

Do you know the other common theme in those two trades? We took on longer term money than we sent out. Other teams weren't willing and we were. If we're looking at "the short and long term" (which I question due to the Caleron thing) then that option very well might not be there this time around.

[teej]

Do you know the other common theme in those two trades? We took on longer term money than we sent out. Other teams weren't willing and we were. If we're looking at "the short and long term" (which I question due to the Caleron thing) then that option very well might not be there this time around.

That's what the Dampier trade was for. We now have decent flexbility this season to take on more money, and the lockout will change contracts enough that who knows what'll happen.

[spectre]

That's what the Dampier trade was for. We now have decent flexbility this season to take on more money, and the lockout will change contracts enough that who knows what'll happen.

How does clearing 3-4 million this season help in taking on long term contracts...esp. since we added long term money on that Dampier trade?

Boris with 2 years on his contract nor DJ isn't likely to be bringing back a starting quality C or PG that's also an expiring...unless we can somehow snag Miller like we're talking about in that other thread.

I also wouldn't be banking on a lock out. From all the reports I've seen the NBA is nowhere near in as bad shape as Stern tried to say last year.

[teej]

How does clearing 3-4 million this season help in taking on long term contracts...esp. since we added long term money on that Dampier trade?

Because most of what we'd be able to get for Boris/DJ isn't going to be less than they are.


Boris with 2 years on his contract nor DJ isn't likely to be bringing back a starting quality C or PG that's also an expiring...unless we can somehow snag Miller like we're talking about in that other thread.

It doesn't need to be an expiring, it just needs to match up for this year. MJ and Rod aren't worried about expirings, at least not yet.


I also wouldn't be banking on a lock out. From all the reports I've seen the NBA is nowhere near in as bad shape as Stern tried to say last year.

The owners want a hard cap, shorter max contracts and fewer guarantees. The players will have none of it. If there isn't a lockout, either the owners are pansies, lying through their teeth or really good negotiators, depending on how it ends up.

[spectre]

Because most of what we'd be able to get for Boris/DJ isn't going to be less than they are.

Possibly, but we don't know that. Devin Harris was cheaper than Boris by about 600k. The space did allow us to give contracts to Liv & McGuire...which was what I think they were angling towards; signing the low end vet FAs.

Again though...that's a short term move a la Larry Brown. What I'm hearing here is that we're no longer doing that (nor taking on dumb contracts like Gana).


It doesn't need to be an expiring, it just needs to match up for this year. MJ and Rod aren't worried about expirings, at least not yet.

Again, everyone is saying (not sure it's you so much...I'm arguing the point) here that we're shying away from the longer term deals. Do you think we are willing to take on another Jax type contract or worse so long as it doesn't exceed the LT this season?


The owners want a hard cap, shorter max contracts and fewer guarantees. The players will have none of it. If there isn't a lockout, either the owners are pansies, lying through their teeth or really good negotiators, depending on how it ends up.

http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=17073



At Least They Are Talking: Cooler heads seemed to have prevailed in yesterday's Collective Bargaining talks, or at least that's the message both sides are trying to send.
After four hours of talks, in which both the NBA Players' Association executive committee and the NBA owners' labor committees shared ideas on a new labor deal, both sides agreed to meet again before the start of training camp and get into specific details of a new deal.


Lot's of posturing...but get this part further down:



The NBA is believed to have crossed the $4 billion in annual revenue mark last year and is seeing record interest in the game not only in all of its broadcast business, but also at the box office in season ticket sales.

Seeing both sides put down the rhetoric and start working towards a deal is a good sign.
It is still unlikely that a deal is reached quickly, as the issues at hand are major changes to the NBA labor structure, and those changes won't be reached easily, but at least they are talking civilly again and that is a good thing.
We're hearing about a bunch of teams having record ST sales Bobcats included. I definitely think changes will be made but I remain unconvinced the owners want to disrupt the strides they've made.

I'll take "lying thru their teeth" for 1000$ Alex.

[teej]

Possibly, but we don't know that. Devin Harris was cheaper than Boris by about 600k. The space did allow us to give contracts to Liv & McGuire...which was what I think they were angling towards; signing the low end vet FAs.

Definitely true, but also they gave themselves room to add on if necessary


Again though...that's a short term move a la Larry Brown. What I'm hearing here is that we're no longer doing that (nor taking on dumb contracts like Gana).

Again, everyone is saying (not sure it's you so much...I'm arguing the point) here that we're shying away from the longer term deals. Do you think we are willing to take on another Jax type contract or worse so long as it doesn't exceed the LT this season?

MJ is too much a comptetitor to let a deal go if he thinks it'll add to the W column. If, perhaps (or more likely when), Cleveland gets off to a slow start and offered Andy V + filler for Boris, or Andy V for Nazzy straight up, I think MJ would seriously consider it.


http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=17073




Lot's of posturing...but get this part further down:


We're hearing about a bunch of teams having record ST sales Bobcats included. I definitely think changes will be made but I remain unconvinced the owners want to disrupt the strides they've made.

I'll take "lying thru their teeth" for 1000$ Alex.


http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=coon_larry&page=lockout-100922

I think the NFL has a higher chance of a lockout, but I'd hardly be surprised if the NBA has one too. Especially if George Shinn is on the negotiating team. SMH

[spectre]

MJ is too much a comptetitor to let a deal go if he thinks it'll add to the W column. If, perhaps (or more likely when), Cleveland gets off to a slow start and offered Andy V + filler for Boris, or Andy V for Nazzy straight up, I think MJ would seriously consider it.

So you're of the opinion that the FO being scared of future longer term contracts aren't wagging the dog. THAT'S the point!

I know you weren't arguing that FWIW. I've seen that opinion bandied around in more places than here and I've never bought it.

I definitely think they're concerned by it, but all these moves were for THIS season...to stay under the LT. Like I said earlier...if we were that worried we never would have considered taking on Caleron.

O'course IMO if we had any freaking sense we would never have considered taking on Caleron regardless.

So c'mon Larry...save the day.

[ohara831]

Our thoughts and prayers are out to you and your wife Dav. Hope she is recovering well from her surgery.

[spectre]

Off topic, but a point about the upcoming CBA:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/ian_thomsen/10/11/cba.primer/index.html



"The only realistic scenario I'm hearing is that we don't come in with a true hard cap," a well-connected GM told me this week. "Maybe we'll be looking at a salary structure similar to what we're working under, with fewer years [on the max contracts] and a little money taken away at the end of the day from the players. So salaries and years will be coming down, but the CBA as it is will remain somewhat intact. But a hard cap, I don't see how it can work."

Something to think about:

The Laker's Question


Let's say there will be a hard cap on salaries after this season. That means the league is probably going to have to break up the flagship rosters of the Los Angeles Lakers and the Miami Heat.




A hard cap would force the breakup of the Lakers and the Heat...the two teams with the biggest following.

Overall good read.