View Full Version : Do we exercise our next year options on Hendo & DJ?
Plowright
10-16-2010, 07:20 AM
personally i would definitley exercise the option on both, i dont think you would get anything better with the contract they would be on, plus both i think (hope) are due for a break out year
ziggy
10-16-2010, 07:58 AM
Is there a deadline on when the Cats would have to exercise the options?
ballwhore
10-16-2010, 08:30 AM
I think November or Dec 1st
ohara831
10-16-2010, 09:04 AM
We have to exercise them. If anything, their potential makes them trade assets. Just letting them go would be a mistake. Expecially with Hendo as LB seems to be opposed to playing him very much and letting him learn on the court. I swear, the last words out of that mans mouth before he dies will be " I hate Rookies!"
ziggy
10-16-2010, 09:33 AM
Agree with Ohara, extending both of them is really a "no lose" situation.
Agree with Ohara, extending both of them is really a "no lose" situation.
Yeah, we absolutely have to exercise them. Why in the world wouldn't we? Also, I'm pretty sure that the deadline is November 1st.
Plowright
10-16-2010, 09:52 AM
November 1st is the deadline, Higgins has said hes gonna wait until then or close to that date, does that suggest they are unsure!? Or they just want to wait and see how they do in the real season for a bit?
-Ian-
10-16-2010, 10:36 AM
Henderson, yes. DJ, hmm... Maybe let's wait a little bit more to see what he can do as the starting PG.
He said that he's starting to get the preachings of LB. Well, he should adjust his learning curve because time is not on his side.
K1NGofAKR0N
10-16-2010, 11:54 AM
I we don't extend them. I find a new favorite team.
Black
10-16-2010, 12:03 PM
As everyone said, of course we do. They are cheap players with upside, not to mention lottery picks.
Plowright
10-16-2010, 12:11 PM
Maybe the only reason we haven't done so already is because they may be used in an upcoming trade... theres a thought.
spectre
10-16-2010, 12:36 PM
Maybe the only reason we haven't done so already is because they may be used in an upcoming trade... theres a thought.
Bingo. Waiting til the last minute would leave the option to the receiving team if either or both are dealt.
There's really no reason to do so until the deadline. Heaven forbid...what if one of them had a Livingston type of injury? Look at Ammo; wasn't that in preseason or at the start of regular season?
BlockParty
10-16-2010, 01:13 PM
More frequently this season, teams are delaying these lottery extensions to send a subtle message to the players association that they will have to make concessions during the next CBA. If DJ or Hendo had a major injury in next 2 weeks they may not get benefit that morrison & may received.
Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk
What about Brown? Doesn't he have an option coming up as well?
spectre
10-16-2010, 06:44 PM
What about Brown? Doesn't he have an option coming up as well?
I think he's still unguaranteed actually.
I think he's still unguaranteed actually.
Oh wow. I guess that's a good thing? On the other hand, he's getting what, less than a million this year? Not like it makes a difference.
BlockParty
10-16-2010, 10:31 PM
Oh wow. I guess that's a good thing? On the other hand, he's getting what, less than a million this year? Not like it makes a difference.
That's the beauty of the 2nd round contracts-they are non-guaranteed...the Teams retain a lot more flexibility (if the player ends up being a dud aka Ajinca). Forces the players to earn their paycheck (if only in practice/summer/training camp by showing up in shape, with obvious improvement in areas identified by the coaches).
Fred Williamson
10-17-2010, 04:40 AM
I we don't extend them. I find a new favorite team.
this. Releasing two lottery picks, who didn't yet have the chance to prove themselves is the dumbest thing you could possibly do as a NBA franchise. We are already the biggest joke in the NBA, but that would top it all.
Henderson, yes. DJ, hmm... Maybe let's wait a little bit more to see what he can do as the starting PG. what? you would consider releasing DJ? Question, are you baked?
BlockParty
10-17-2010, 07:57 AM
what? you would consider releasing DJ? Question, are you baked?
It's not a question of whether you release DJ, you wouldn't release him. The Bobcats have to decide by this November 1st if they want to make guarantee his $3.2M for next season http://hoopshype.com/salaries/charlotte.htm
We got burned by similar decisions with May and Morrison and Ajinca
DY_nasty
10-18-2010, 01:34 PM
The only lottery pick to not get his option picked up was Joe Alexander.
Say what you want about Lexi, Morrison, and May - but their situations were never as bad.
TheBeagle
10-19-2010, 04:25 PM
No more Henderson. His presence is a constant reminder to me that we passed on Jrue for him. But that's just me.
DY_nasty
10-19-2010, 04:47 PM
No more Henderson. His presence is a constant reminder to me that we passed on Jrue for him. But that's just me.
What has Jrue done? All he's shown is that he's slightly better than Louis Williams (isn't everyone?) and is a big point guard. He's done well in stretches as a rookie, but the only real difference between his situation and Gerald's is that Jrue was allowed to touch the court.
BigMike
10-20-2010, 01:01 PM
I just don't have any love for Hendo, take him or leave him... They have to keep DJ after all the work they put into him ;)
I am more worried about getting UPS under a contract....
spectre
10-20-2010, 02:00 PM
I am more worried about getting UPS under a contract....
I'm pretty sure it's just a matter of us extending the offer...but I could be wrong.
ohara831
10-20-2010, 02:07 PM
DJ is starting to impress me this pre-season. Not so happy with Henderson.
DY_nasty
10-20-2010, 02:29 PM
Henderson's situation is just like Reddick's really.
The FA acquisition leading to them losing time in their rookie seasons and a trade for an established player at their position... Some guys fail when they get opportunities, but it doesn't make sense to count a guy out before he even gets one.
The FA acquisition leading to them losing time in their rookie seasons and a trade for an established player at their position... Some guys fail when they get opportunities, but it doesn't make sense to count a guy out before he even gets one.
Difference is, Redick is a shooter playing shooting guard, Hendo is a mediocre slasher/defender playing shooting guard. Shooters are always valuable, Dominic McGuire has shown that even if you don't know who the fuck they are, defense isn't too hard to find.
DY_nasty
10-20-2010, 03:12 PM
Difference is, Redick is a shooter playing shooting guard, Hendo is a mediocre slasher/defender playing shooting guard. Shooters are always valuable, Dominic McGuire has shown that even if you don't know who the fuck they are, defense isn't too hard to find.
Is it really that big of a deal because one guy is a shooter (on a team full of shooters) and the other isn't (even though this guy is primarily a defender on a team full of good wing defenders)? Their situations regarding FAs being stacked on top of them and trades to bring in established borderline all-stars at their position have much in common to say the least.
And McGuire... All I know is that he played okay defense on a crappy team - thats not hard to do.
Demon DeaCat
10-20-2010, 05:11 PM
Is it really that big of a deal because one guy is a shooter (on a team full of shooters) and the other isn't (even though this guy is primarily a defender on a team full of good wing defenders)? Their situations regarding FAs being stacked on top of them and trades to bring in established borderline all-stars at their position have much in common to say the least.
And McGuire... All I know is that he played okay defense on a crappy team - thats not hard to do.
I think the point that should be taken from your example is that if you can play, you'll eventually find your niche no matter what, just as Reddick has. Same will happen for Hendo eventually, IF he can play. I'm not sure if he can or not though. When you're a shooting guard who can't shoot, things usually don't end well for you. If he learns to shoot he'll have a long career in this league. If he doesn't, he won't. It's just that simple, and if he doesn't, he won't be able to blame Flip or Jax. Signing Flip was a great move last year, and one I wished we had repeated this off-season.
jrue is so much better than hendo at this point. i don't even think it's an argument. we should have traded the pick if we were going to take hendo. that was my vote at the time.
DY_nasty
10-20-2010, 06:52 PM
Can't shoot? We can't even tell how bad his shooting is until he actually gets on the court. People said Redick couldn't shoot either when he got into the league - he was getting trashed for supposedly not being able to adapt to a faster NBA and the 3pt line. Meanwhile, he gets some playing time and outperforms Wince throughout the playoffs and was one of the key stabilizing factors for the Magic this past season.
Flip was nice, but I can't be a fan of his signing even though he did have some good games for us. All it did was enable LB. I mean, we could've tried to work DJ into things instead of consuming his soul buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuut its much more fun to try and turn a streaky undersized shooting guard into a back up point.
Anyways, the whole idea of not picking either of the options is jumping the gun to say the least.
SWedd523
10-20-2010, 07:11 PM
I don't know if anyone ever said Redick couldn't shoot, and if they did, they're idiots.
Hendo couldn't shoot in college, hasn't been able to shoot in his time in the NBA, whether it be preseason, SL, regular season, or post season. The only thing he needs to be doing--ever--is shoot jumper after jumper after jumper in the gym. Simple fact is, the more you shoot, the better you get.
In my perfect world, UPS (who is every bit as limited as Hendo, but that's another discussion) replaces Crash and Hendo replaces Jack.
TheBeagle
10-20-2010, 07:22 PM
jrue is so much better than hendo at this point. i don't even think it's an argument. we should have traded the pick if we were going to take hendo. that was my vote at the time. Yeah, as the BCP draft day chatroom records can attest I was devestated we took Henderson when Jrue fell to us. The only thing that helped soothe the misery was picking up UPSy in the 2nd, which the chatroom records can also attest I was a big fan of.
Thinking more level-headed though, yes, I think his option should be picked up. While I don't see much talent (and never really have), he has some decent athleticism and has high energy moments when he's on the court. It would only compound not drafting Jrue if they don't pick up Henderson's option.
DY_nasty
10-20-2010, 07:41 PM
I don't know if anyone ever said Redick couldn't shoot, and if they did, they're idiots.
There was a lot of it during Redick's first two years in the league. He also asked for a trade but Orlando refused to move him. His early career was just a perfect example of what happens when a coaching staff and FO aren't on the same page when it comes to personnel.
Why'd you guys want Jrue?
SWedd523
10-20-2010, 09:33 PM
There was a lot of it during Redick's first two years in the league. He also asked for a trade but Orlando refused to move him. His early career was just a perfect example of what happens when a coaching staff and FO aren't on the same page when it comes to personnel.
Criticism? yes. About his shooting? no.
The criticism was that he was too small, too slow, too white, couldn't play D, etc. His saving grace was that he's a pretty much lights out shooter from anywhere behind the arc. The difference between Redick and Hendo (at least thus far) is that he worked his ass off on all of his weaknesses and has developed into a solid role player.
Hendo only really has two weaknesses in my opinion--range and ball handling. The problem is that both of those are pretty much necessary when you're a SG. He's worked on his hands some and is at least adequate dribbling. He's a reliable outside shot away from being a 6th man/starter in the league. It just happens that his biggest weaknesses are the most valuable assets for a 2 guard.
Why'd you guys want Jrue?
BPA.
DY_nasty
10-20-2010, 09:59 PM
Not saying its my opinion, just something that people liked to point out. His playing time was sporadic to say the least over his first two seasons and his shooting sample was small - if you wanted to throw aside his above average fg% because of he didn't really shoot all that much it was... an argument you could make.
Either way, I'm a fan of actually seeing someone fail before passing judgment. Neither player is anywhere close to being Joe Alexander bad or even Julian Wright bad. On top of that, I'd hate to have something in common with the Boston fans who were happy to get rid of Joe Johnson for Tony Delk.
Edit: Jrue is okay I guess... I was kind of hoping that we'd trade down since everyone in the lottery that we needed was off the board. Taj Gibson and Chase Budinger would've made it a good night.
Hendo only really has two weaknesses in my opinion--range and ball handling. The problem is that both of those are pretty much necessary when you're a SG. He's worked on his hands some and is at least adequate dribbling. He's a reliable outside shot away from being a 6th man/starter in the league. It just happens that his biggest weaknesses are the most valuable assets for a 2 guard.
This. Please find me any shooting guard over 27 in the league right now that can't shoot. I'll wait. There are an infinite amount of swingmen that can play defense (Dom McGuire for this team), and an infinite amount of swingmen who can shoot (Matty Carroll). What determines their longevity is the ability to do both. The reason an undrafted, 34-year-old Raja Bell is going to start at 2 guard for the Utah Jazz, who will be a playoff team, is because he plays defense AND shoots. The reason Bruce Bowen played until they put him in the crypt is because he could do both. The reason Gerald Wallace became an All-Star this year is because he finally got his shots to fall. The reason UPS and Hendo won't be in the league in 5 years without a dramatic change is because they can't shoot. If they were centers, they'd be set for life. But they're not, so they HAVE to learn to shoot. And dynasty, have you EVER watched Hendo play? His shooting percentage is like Jake Delhomme's TD-INT ratio. Not Good.
SWedd523
10-20-2010, 10:20 PM
Don't get me confused though, Hendo is a good offensive player off the drive, slashing, and off mid range pulls and curls. He just can't shoot from range.
Don't get me confused though, Hendo is a good offensive player off the drive, slashing, and off mid range pulls and curls. He just can't shoot from range.
Yes. But the former is not effective unless you can keep a defender honest with the latter. It's why Jack's drives are so effective, even though he's tiny compared to the bigs down low.
BlockParty
10-20-2010, 10:28 PM
The reason UPS and Hendo won't be in the league in 5 years without a dramatic change is because they can't shoot.
UPS will be in the NBA 10 years minimum. His game is different than Hendo (and therefore so are the perimeter shooting expectations).
UPS's high-end (with some work) could fill a Anthony Mason role (old school NY Knicks player who averaged a double double).
Agreed on Hendo..you can't play shooting guard if you can't shoot from outside (that is and will always be one of Felton's weaknesses).
BlockParty
10-20-2010, 10:31 PM
It's why Jack's drives are so effective, even though he's tiny compared to the bigs down low.
Jack is only tiny in comparison to HIS EGO when he's trying to score when being guarded by a mammal. And yes, that's a compliment, I love his passion for beating his opponent.
UPS will be in the NBA 10 years minimum. His game is different than Hendo (and therefore so are the perimeter shooting expectations).
UPS's high-end (with some work) could fill a Anthony Mason role (old school NY Knicks player who averaged a double double).
I'd love to agree with you, but what distinguishes him from Rodney Carney, Cartier Martin, Gerald Green, etc.?
DY_nasty
10-20-2010, 10:43 PM
This. Please find me any shooting guard over 27 in the league right now that can't shoot. I'll wait. There are an infinite amount of swingmen that can play defense (Dom McGuire for this team), and an infinite amount of swingmen who can shoot (Matty Carroll). What determines their longevity is the ability to do both. The reason an undrafted, 34-year-old Raja Bell is going to start at 2 guard for the Utah Jazz, who will be a playoff team, is because he plays defense AND shoots. The reason Bruce Bowen played until they put him in the crypt is because he could do both. The reason Gerald Wallace became an All-Star this year is because he finally got his shots to fall. The reason UPS and Hendo won't be in the league in 5 years without a dramatic change is because they can't shoot. If they were centers, they'd be set for life. But they're not, so they HAVE to learn to shoot. And dynasty, have you EVER watched Hendo play? His shooting percentage is like Jake Delhomme's TD-INT ratio. Not Good.lol Dwayne Wade, a top 5 player in the league has only cracked 30% shooting from 3 twice in his career. Tyreke Evans, ROTY, shot 25% from deep. Shooting from 3 is not the defining characteristic for a shooting guard, it never was, and just once can we PLEASE have a back and forth without the bullshit 'do you even watch games?!?111' crap. Shit is tiresome and played out.
I'm not going to judge a guy's fg% until he gets consistent minutes - coming off the bench in 'oh shit i get to play tonight' mode is hardly indicative of how well their shot is going to fall.
Mid-range, slashing - Henderson is fine. And with all slashers, 3 point shooting helps. But nowhere in the gospel of basketball does it say that it has to be their own shooting. Grant Hill had shooters happy to be on his team in Detroit. Wade made Cook and Kapono look like borderline stars because they were wide open all day. Reke has Casspi and Greene spotting up. For any slasher, its going to be hard to operate without shooters. Good thing we're the Bobcats though. We got plenty to open the paint up amirite?
SWedd523
10-20-2010, 11:09 PM
What's the biggest difference between Wade, Tyreke, and Hendo? The first two can dribble. Having an outside shot isn't important when you can create for yourself off the dribble.
You can also look at his SL %'s and Preseason %'s, neither are high for him. Nor were they in college--with a shorter 3PT line.
DY_nasty
10-20-2010, 11:43 PM
And all of that is fixable. The whole topic was whether or not he was worth picking up his option though and honestly can't think of a reason not to.
Edit: Also, I was just throwing those two out because Teej wanted some guards who couldn't shoot.
spectre
10-21-2010, 07:58 AM
What's the biggest difference between Wade, Tyreke, and Hendo? The first two can dribble. Having an outside shot isn't important when you can create for yourself off the dribble.
Exactly. Well said. If they can create for others like those first two and do it efficiently as well then you have something.
UPS will be in the NBA 10 years minimum. His game is different than Hendo (and therefore so are the perimeter shooting expectations).
UPS's high-end (with some work) could fill a Anthony Mason role (old school NY Knicks player who averaged a double double).
Agreed on Hendo..you can't play shooting guard if you can't shoot from outside (that is and will always be one of Felton's weaknesses).
i think you are very wrong on UPS. once his ups go, so does he.
BlockParty
10-21-2010, 08:29 AM
i think you are very wrong on UPS. once his ups go, so does he.
Yep, and they go in 9 years, right after his 10th year in the league
Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk
SWedd523
10-21-2010, 10:50 AM
And all of that is fixable. The whole topic was whether or not he was worth picking up his option though and honestly can't think of a reason not to.
Edit: Also, I was just throwing those two out because Teej wanted some guards who couldn't shoot.
It's certainly fixable (as I alluded to with him having "adequate" handles now) but it's obvious that to this point he hasn't improved those areas much. I'll say again, he needs to just stay in the gym and shoot jumper after jumper after jumper because, if he can develop a reliable outside shot, he'll be a better version of Raja. Same goes for his handles.
DY_nasty
10-21-2010, 12:34 PM
Again - wasn't trying to draw a comparison between those guys and Henderson. Just giving the guy his names of players who couldn't shoot.
And it makes no sense to consider dropping either guy at this point.
Pepperz
10-21-2010, 03:34 PM
Not exercising both of them for next year is a stupid idea. People are so quick to jump on a person just because they dont come out of the starting blocks with crazy stats or plays. DJ is starting to come around and show why he was not a bad pick and that he can live up to the expectation when given the property support and time. Maybe Hendo on the other hand will never come around and he will end up as a bust but that doesnt mean we just throw in the towel now and let him walk off into the sun set. Give him time to mature as a player. He may end up as a solid player after all.
Be PATIENT everyone.
Powered by vBulletin™ Version 4.0.6 Copyright © 2013 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.