NBA threatens contraction

[CatNation]

so in wake of the poor revenue numbers of the NBA, the vice commish has brought up the idea of contracting poor earning teams in small markets. Us being in that category, how worried are you about the possibility of our team being contracted? I can't imagine the NBA wanting to dick over Charlotte again so soon...

[SWedd523]

The NBA is in the middle of record revenues. If he said the revenue numbers are poor then he's sandbagging.



Also, if you got that from a source, please post the link

[teej]

Yeah, I watched the press conference today and when Silver was talking about revenues, that was not uttered at all.

[CatNation]

I dunno I just got it off RealGM

http://basketball.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/69685/20101021/nba_floats_contraction_performance_standards_to_av oid_33_percent_pay_cuts/

[teej]

It'd cost them so much to buy out the owner(s) of those teams (i.e. Sacramento, Minny, Indy, Memphis, maybe CLT and ATL) that it wouldn't make them money until Stern was dead...

[CatNation]

apparently they lost like 400 million dollars last year alone. thats enough to buy controlling interests in at least a couple of those teams

[dnbman]

Sounds like a bargaining chip. If they contract, that's 15 player jobs lost per team. If you're talking about 4 teams, that's 60 players out of NBA work. The "solution" to keep salaries higher is not one that a percentage of the union will want, making he union think compromise more.

[GoBobs]

The NBA doesn't want to contract this is all posturing.

Overall the NBA does a poor job of marketing itself and then blames the small markets for not pulling there weight, just like it blames the players for having too much salary. We have seen ourselves that small market teams don't get any media coverage to help them build their brands. LB said he had forgotten what it was like to be at the press conference after a game last year during the playoffs.

The experience of going to a basketball game has improved little in the last 20-30 years while many new competitive forms of entertainment have evolved. When fans prefer to watch the games on TV rather then improve the experience of coming to a game the NBA has sought to black out the TV audience. It isn't the players fault or the small market's fault the NBA is only a shell of what it could be. It's David Sterns fault.

Basketball is perfect for TV. It is fast paced with tons of scoring. It is a lot safer then football considering concussions and head to head collisions. It could easily be the number one sport in America if the league had anything that resembled leadership.

[TattoodCats4life]

I agree GoBobs.. If the league marketed correctly they could cash more from the casual fans, and a HELL OF A LOT MORE from the rabid fans...oh and get new fans to boot... The thing I always think about is how to get more people in the arena without making the seats suck...I think if the stadium held oh say 40k instead of 22k people, some teams would still sell out, and smaller teams might not fill it out, but even if they ran huge promos (say even buy 1 get 3 free, which is insane I know, or $5 tix or something) they'd still make concession money and souvenir money...not to mention the money otherwise pumping into the local economy when people leave the arena and spend money on food etc. Still a win/win.

[spectre]

The NBA doesn't want to contract this is all posturing.

Overall the NBA does a poor job of marketing itself and then blames the small markets for not pulling there weight, just like it blames the players for having too much salary. We have seen ourselves that small market teams don't get any media coverage to help them build their brands. LB said he had forgotten what it was like to be at the press conference after a game last year during the playoffs.

The experience of going to a basketball game has improved little in the last 20-30 years while many new competitive forms of entertainment have evolved. When fans prefer to watch the games on TV rather then improve the experience of coming to a game the NBA has sought to black out the TV audience. It isn't the players fault or the small market's fault the NBA is only a shell of what it could be. It's David Sterns fault.

Basketball is perfect for TV. It is fast paced with tons of scoring. It is a lot safer then football considering concussions and head to head collisions. It could easily be the number one sport in America if the league had anything that resembled leadership.

Well said.

That 400 number is pure BS, and GoBobs makes an EXCELLENT point...look at our TV situation. The NBA mandates that 75 mile radius thing, so they're the main culprits keeping teams like us building a bigger fanbase.

I also saw where the owners want players' salaries to contract 1/3 overall. Yeah, right.

Stern is a lawyer isn't he? He's playing to his other profession.

[Chef]

for the overall quality of the league contracting 4 teams would be great. i also think dropping the sched about 20 games would drastically imrove the product, attendance and intensity. none of these would happen of course. the sad thing is there is going to be no season next year for sure. even crazier, if the nfl is out too sports will be depressing next year. if the nba could capitalize on no nfl, it could be huge for the league.

[ohara831]

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/story/14168647/nba-owners-float-contraction-along-with-huge-pay-cuts

I hate this guy for throwing us in this category, but if it comes to pass, Charlotte may be in trouble.

[BlockParty]

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/story/14168647/nba-owners-float-contraction-along-with-huge-pay-cuts

I hate this guy for throwing us in this category, but if it comes to pass, Charlotte may be in trouble.

It's posturing..they won't contract at all...everything is driven by TV ratings, that why March madness is expanding, bowl games grow every year, the NFL is adding 2 games....the NBA won't contract.

Plus, based off of Charlotte's growth in sponsors and season ticket sales, I can't see them being close to the top 4 in terms of which teams to 'buy-out" and shut down.

http://www.forbes.com/lists/2009/32/basketball-values-09_NBA-Team-Valuations_Income.html



12.09.09, 06:00 PM EST
http://ads.forbes.com/RealMedia/ads/adstream_lx.ads/forbes.com/lists/ListID32/results/993918988/x92/OasDefault_v5/default/empty.gif/7a656738336b7a426d574141416e5953? (http://ads.forbes.com/RealMedia/ads/click_lx.ads/forbes.com/lists/ListID32/results/993918988/x92/OasDefault_v5/default/empty.gif/7a656738336b7a426d574141416e5953)http://ads.forbes.com/RealMedia/ads/adstream_lx.ads/forbes.com/lists/ListID32/results/1335491767/x91/OasDefault_v5/default/empty.gif/7a656738336b7a426d574141416e5953? (http://ads.forbes.com/RealMedia/ads/click_lx.ads/forbes.com/lists/ListID32/results/1335491767/x91/OasDefault_v5/default/empty.gif/7a656738336b7a426d574141416e5953)Last Yr Team Current Value 1 yr Value Chg M% Debt/Value% Revenues M$ $Operating Inc($mil)
1 Los Angeles Lakers (http://www.forbes.com/lists/2009/32/basketball-values-09_Los-Angeles-Lakers_320250.html) 607 4 20 209 51.1
3 Chicago Bulls (http://www.forbes.com/lists/2009/32/basketball-values-09_Chicago-Bulls_321267.html)511 2 11 168 51.0
4 Detroit Pistons (http://www.forbes.com/lists/2009/32/basketball-values-09_Detroit-Pistons_320844.html)479 0 0 171 46.9
6 Houston Rockets (http://www.forbes.com/lists/2009/32/basketball-values-09_Houston-Rockets_322525.html)470 0 15 160 30.3
2 New York Knicks (http://www.forbes.com/lists/2009/32/basketball-values-09_New-York-Knicks_328815.html)586 -4 0 202 21.0
9 Phoenix Suns (http://www.forbes.com/lists/2009/32/basketball-values-09_Phoenix-Suns_321064.html)429 -5 43 148 20.7
10 San Antonio Spurs (http://www.forbes.com/lists/2009/32/basketball-values-09_San-Antonio-Spurs_323002.html)398 -4 12 133 19.1
11 Toronto Raptors (http://www.forbes.com/lists/2009/32/basketball-values-09_Toronto-Raptors_321933.html)386 -3 38 133 18.0
8 Boston Celtics (http://www.forbes.com/lists/2009/32/basketball-values-09_Boston-Celtics_326173.html)433 -3 42 144 12.9
20 Oklahoma City Thunder (http://www.forbes.com/lists/2009/32/basketball-values-09_Oklahoma-City-Thunder_329710.html)310 3 45 111 12.7
18 Golden State Warriors (http://www.forbes.com/lists/2009/32/basketball-values-09_Golden-State-Warriors_324799.html)315 -6 24 113 11.9
23 Los Angeles Clippers (http://www.forbes.com/lists/2009/32/basketball-values-09_Los-Angeles-Clippers_322952.html)295 -1 0 102 10.0
12 Miami Heat (http://www.forbes.com/lists/2009/32/basketball-values-09_Miami-Heat_329036.html)364 -7 45 126 8.0
15 Utah Jazz (http://www.forbes.com/lists/2009/32/basketball-values-09_Utah-Jazz_322274.html)343 -4 6 118 7.9
14 Philadelphia 76ers (http://www.forbes.com/lists/2009/32/basketball-values-09_Philadelphia-76ers_321387.html)344 -4 19 115 7.6
5 Cleveland Cavaliers (http://www.forbes.com/lists/2009/32/basketball-values-09_Cleveland-Cavaliers_324902.html)476 0 42 159 5.0
19 Washington Wizards (http://www.forbes.com/lists/2009/32/basketball-values-09_Washington-Wizards_322873.html)313 -11 62 110 4.9
17 Denver Nuggets (http://www.forbes.com/lists/2009/32/basketball-values-09_Denver-Nuggets_324980.html)321 -3 11 115 4.6
28 New Orleans Hornets (http://www.forbes.com/lists/2009/32/basketball-values-09_New-Orleans-Hornets_328959.html)267 -6 55 95 -0.1
21 Atlanta Hawks (http://www.forbes.com/lists/2009/32/basketball-values-09_Atlanta-Hawks_323662.html)306 0 21 103 -2.0
13 Orlando Magic (http://www.forbes.com/lists/2009/32/basketball-values-09_Orlando-Magic_324583.html)361 4 30 107 -2.2
22 Sacramento Kings (http://www.forbes.com/lists/2009/32/basketball-values-09_Sacramento-Kings_327146.html)305 -13 31 109 -2.8
27 Minnesota Timberwolves (http://www.forbes.com/lists/2009/32/basketball-values-09_Minnesota-Timberwolves_323346.html)268 -11 19 96 -6.8
29 Memphis Grizzlies (http://www.forbes.com/lists/2009/32/basketball-values-09_Memphis-Grizzlies_325603.html)257 -13 58 88 -7.1
30 Milwaukee Bucks (http://www.forbes.com/lists/2009/32/basketball-values-09_Milwaukee-Bucks_325937.html)254 -9 22 91 -7.4
26 New Jersey Nets (http://www.forbes.com/lists/2009/32/basketball-values-09_New-Jersey-Nets_323869.html)269 -9 77 92 -13.9
25 Charlotte Bobcats (http://www.forbes.com/lists/2009/32/basketball-values-09_Charlotte-Bobcats_322435.html)278 -2 58 96 -15.1
24 Indiana Pacers (http://www.forbes.com/lists/2009/32/basketball-values-09_Indiana-Pacers_322134.html)281 -7 18 97 -15.7
7 Dallas Mavericks (http://www.forbes.com/lists/2009/32/basketball-values-09_Dallas-Mavericks_324736.html)446 -4 26 154 -17.4
16 Portland Trail Blazers (http://www.forbes.com/lists/2009/32/basketball-values-09_Portland-Trail-Blazers_324837.html)338 10 31 121 -20.3

[Scottley Crue]

This is definitely some posturing...letting the players know how serious they are about cutting costs. I don't think they'll contract at all, and if for some strange reason they do, the 'Cat's recent business success, only being in the league seven years (simply give the team a chance)...and oh yeah, ripping a team away from Michael Jordan (who they really want involved at that level in the league) are things that work in Charlotte's favor, I believe.

But this is just sabre-rattling right now. Just a message to say that the owners are expecting the players to give in on salary some.

[BigMike]

http://www.forbes.com/lists/2009/32/basketball-values-09_NBA-Team-Valuations_Income.html

I would love to see a new one of these. Even just our 4 playoff games were worth a ton of TV money and the extra revenue of the sell outs in the last month of last year. PLUS the 2000+ increase in season ticket sales this year.... I wonder how much improvement we had in that projected 15 million per year loss....

[Scottley Crue]

FWIW, here's more from RealGM on the subject, which in my mind puts it out there that contraction isn't a real consideration, just something to use in negotiations. The real thing I think they're after (and hope gets agreed to, along with better revenue sharing among owners) is towards the bottom of the article...getting out of bad contracts.

http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/69685/20101021/nba_floats_contraction_performance_standards_to_av oid_33_percent_pay_cuts/

[BlockParty]

I would love to see a new one of these. Even just our 4 playoff games were worth a ton of TV money and the extra revenue of the sell outs in the last month of last year. PLUS the 2000+ increase in season ticket sales this year.... I wonder how much improvement we had in that projected 15 million per year loss....

Next one comes out in December 2010

[millst2]

The contraction talks are BS. Just tome stupid espn pundits trying to create news. I can see the issue the owners have with paying 57% of all revenues to the players, the players need to come off of their high horses and realize that if the teams are covering their nut then they dont get paid.

I think the players should go to a tiered pay scale. If your a starter you get X per year, bench players get X per year. If bench players start X amount of games they get a pro rated pay scale for all the games they start, and if you hit the all-star game or top 10 in the league in X or Y you get a 2-3 million bonus. This keeps the players hungry, allows the team owners to drop the prices of the tickets and it would level the playing field league wide.

The bobcats aren't getting contracted. The teams they mentioned were retarded. OKC, Nets, Clippers etc. I honestly see a lockout coming cause the players now are conditioned that they should be making 250k a game. The team owners are wanting 33% cut, I see the players coming to the table for 50%, which that would do a lot for the teams. That would be a 140 million in salary cuts that can go to the teams. That would drop prices, increase marketing, better tv deals etc.

[teej]

The bobcats aren't getting contracted. The teams they mentioned were retarded. OKC, Nets, Clippers etc. I honestly see a lockout coming cause the players now are conditioned that they should be making 250k a game. The team owners are wanting 33% cut, I see the players coming to the table for 50%, which that would do a lot for the teams. That would be a 140 million in salary cuts that can go to the teams. That would drop prices, increase marketing, better tv deals etc.

If anyone gets contracted, it'd be Memphis, NoLa, Indy and maybe Atlanta. But I'd be shocked if they contracted anyone.

[millst2]

Teej,

It just doesnt make sense for them to contract at all. Atlanta and Indy ( as bad as their attendance is) I don't see it. Atlanta has a huge population and media hub, and Indy has larry bird running things, and I dont see them dissing one of their stars. Outside of NC , indiana is a basketball state. Plus I would think if they contract it would have to be 6 teams. 1 in each division ( 3 per conference).

I could see the owners maybe voting to Move Memphis to Seattle or somewhere. New Orleans would be a hard move to do as well as they sold 88% of their tickets to games last year. Nets were the worst but they have a new owner and soon to be in brooklyn. There is a few other cities that have been fighting for a team like san diego. But i think the contraction is to just knock the players down a tad to get them to realize that 57% is a bit to much when some of the teams struggle and others underwater and the payroll is a big part of the issue.

I agree the players make the team better and draw in fans, but I would never run a business where my employees made up 57% of my expenses. 50% as i said i think is where they are heading/ aiming for. 7% would equal 140million in payroll cuts based off of sterns figure of 2 billion in salaries paid out last year. 4.6mill per team on avg can do a lot to market and fill the seats.

[Chef]

The contraction talks are BS. Just tome stupid espn pundits trying to create news. I can see the issue the owners have with paying 57% of all revenues to the players, the players need to come off of their high horses and realize that if the teams are covering their nut then they dont get paid.



actually there are stern quotes about contraction now. i don't think it will happen, even though it should to between 4-6 or 8 teams. i think it is sterns way of saying there is going to be a lockout and salaries will be reduced. think about it from a negotiation standpoint. if you go into it saying salaries need to be reduced and the union says no and you negotiate up from there. but if you start with lets lose 8 teams, you whittle down to a concession of "fine, to spare roughly 45-50 jobs, we will talk about non-guar contracts and a smaller cap."

[superb1]

NBA commissioner David Stern has mentioned contraction as a possibility as the league enters economic uncertainty.

Stern didn't single out any franchises, but a Celtics team source told the Boston Globe that small-market cities like Charlotte, Memphis and New Orleans may be in danger of losing their teams.

Via Boston Globe

http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/69743/20101024/source_lists_bobcats_grizzlies_hornets_as_possible _contractions/

if the league does this then they would lose me as a pro ball fan.

[Black]

I'm not concerned. When the nation as a whole rebounds financially, so will the NBA. This is just posturing on the NBA's part, and an attempt to stir the pot on the reporter's part.

But I am with you on not following the NBA anymore if the Bobcats dissolve. When the hornet's left, I lost interest in the NBA. I know Duke basketball isn't going anywhere, so they will just become the focus of my basketball world.

[Mustachio]

No freaking way Charlotte loses the Bobcats through contraction.

will not happen.

[fallen xxi]

I could see Milwaukee, Sacramento, and even Toronto losing their teams before any of the teams above coming anywhere near losing their teams. That's just bad reporting and most likely all assumptions. Typical from those yanks up in Boston, though.

[ND22]

If this were to happen, Stern would probably be remembered as the worst commissioner in professional sports. He would lose millions of fans and future revenue just to cut financial losses.

The thought of this happening makes me sick to my stomach, the sooner this gets flushed down the drain the better.

[CatNation]

lol, unnamed "Boston source" with obviously no knowledge about our arena obligations...

[SWedd523]

Merged all three contraction threads

[millst2]

I agree it is all posturing to show the players union that the league and team owners have the upper hand, which they do. You can talk to fans of all the other sports and it is always mentioned that the NBA players are way over paid. I agree that they are overpaid, and when a player is overpaid it hurts the teams profitability. Think of diop, diaw, gay, crawford, johnson etc. They have one good season and it kills the team in terms of new players, trades etc.

I do not think that by the players union agreeing to lower their salaries by 7% ( not been said as the goal, just my idea of what they are shooting for.. stern thinks 33% which would not happen all at once but maybe as a 2-3-4 cba's down the road) and decreasing the max number of years a player can be signed it will cause a lockout.

Some pundits have even mentioned that maybe the NBA go to the NFL style Franchise Player system. Where a team can lock in a player and tag them, and if they want to leave it costs them and the team they are going to.

I think the way nba players earn should be if they perform night in and night out for the whole contract, not making insane amounts of money then slacking until a contract year comes up. Tier it where you have bench players, 6th and 7th men and then starters, then bonuses for all-stars and hitting W-L goals and playoff targets. NBA players if they are stars make a shit ton of money off of endorsements if they are good.

A 7% decrease in salaries for max guys is 1.4 mill a yr. And by lessening the amount of years at once a player can be signed for would allow the smaller market teams to stay more competitive.

Just my thoughts.

[Plowright]

http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/69743/20101024/source_lists_bobcats_grizzlies_hornets_as_possible _contractions/

NO NO NO! Someone please tell me that this can't happen, our franchise can never just dissapear....

[teej]

http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/69743/20101024/source_lists_bobcats_grizzlies_hornets_as_possible _contractions/

NO NO NO! Someone please tell me that this can't happen, our franchise can never just dissapear....

It won't happen. Too much money involved. It's all a pissing contest between Stern and Hunter at this point. MLB threatened contraction for years, never happened. Just expansion. And even if there was contraction, it'd be Sacramento, Nola, Minny, Memphis, Toronto or Indy involved.

[K1NGofAKR0N]

No worries there is no way they knock off the Bobcats after the best player in NBA history and the face of Basketball just bought the team. And Charlotte's market isn't that small compared to some.

[IshHappens]

If they do contract, it won't be the Bobcats because of the Jordan connection. I don't think we have anything to worry about.

[rsxnova]

Please contract the Hornets so we can get our name back.

[ammofan]

please contract the hornets so we can get our name back.

yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Or better yet....combine the Hornets and Bobcats!

CP3/DJ/Bayless
Jack/Thornton
Wallace/?
Tyrus/West/Diaw/UPS
Mek/Nazr

[TheDorkLord]

yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Or better yet....combine the Hornets and Bobcats!

CP3/DJ/Bayless
Jack/ThorntonAs
Wallace/?
Tyrus/West/Diaw/UPS
Mek/Nazr

Now we are talking... but on a serious level this contraction talk is all BS, just posturing. And as others have pointed out we are safe with MJ as our owner now.

[Ghost Kat]

It should be the Raptors....they aren't even an american team