View Full Version : The 2010-11 Trade Discussion Thread
rsxnova
11-12-2010, 01:13 AM
Wouldn't it be possible that we trade Jax for Peja.. then Throw big money at Horford next year? Or throw about 8 Millie at Greg Oden? Center position solved
Also with trading Peja, I would go in tank mode.. give the youngins as much PT as possible this season and give develop them as much as can be.. Hopefully DJ Hendo and UPS develops into starter level talent.. then with a high draft pick next year, we will have a real good young nucleus to work with.. Our Nucleus could possibly be a Developed DJ, Hendo, UPS.. Allstars in Crash, Horford, and Loto pick in Irving or Barnes.. our future would be looking mad bright with plenty of trade pieces to retool our squad.
Horford signed an extension
stun704
11-12-2010, 01:15 AM
Horford signed an extension
fawk replace horford and throw half of the money to Oden
fawk replace horford and throw half of the money to Oden
oden is too injury prone for the money he will end up being paid. and if we do rebuild it is going to cost us both jax and wallace. we can't half rebuild. jax should get us expirings. boris could get us 4-5 mil expiring, 3-4 mil 2 year contract and nice asset. wallace should get us rid of diop and carroll as well as taking back expiring/talent/and pick.
Some team will overpay for Oden and I'd prefer it not be the Bobcats...and my preference (if we do trade Jack) would be improve the team this year but upgrading the Center position through a trade is never easy...
SWedd523
11-12-2010, 12:21 PM
Marc Gasol will be a RFA next summer right? Pick him up!
I'm all for Marc but I doubt the Grizz will not match...I think they trade or let Zach go before they let Marc get away...but yes I'd like to have him...
I'm all for Marc but I doubt the Grizz will not match...I think they trade or let Zach go before they let Marc get away...but yes I'd like to have him...
Between Conley, Gay and their other guarantees, they're already at close to 41 million, not counting their draft picks. If Zach makes the ASG again this year I think they'd have to bring him back, just to satisfy the fans (all 18 of them). While we'd have to dump some guys to get cap, if we made a solid offer I doubt they'd match.
rsxnova
11-12-2010, 01:06 PM
Would anyone be willing to go after Love should he become avail?
Pepperz
11-12-2010, 01:12 PM
Quit with this rebuild shit. Im not down for throwing in the towel and losing just for the HOPE that we might get some better players in the process.
Between Conley, Gay and their other guarantees, they're already at close to 41 million, not counting their draft picks. If Zach makes the ASG again this year I think they'd have to bring him back, just to satisfy the fans (all 18 of them). While we'd have to dump some guys to get cap, if we made a solid offer I doubt they'd match.
teej...IMO if the Grizz intended to keep Zach he'd have a new contract...the numbers they've discussed with his agent are not going to keep him in Memphis...frankly I'd rather see us go ahead and initiate trade talks with them for Marc and see what gives...
DY_nasty
11-12-2010, 03:54 PM
Quit with this rebuild shit. Im not down for throwing in the towel and losing just for the HOPE that we might get some better players in the process.
Purgatory is better?
from weekend dime:
not much news to us but:
So here are five:
Stephen Jackson, Bobcats
Jackson
The enigmatic swingman's future with the Bobcats is a tricky read. For multiple reasons.
Besides the two years and $19.3 million left on his contract after this season, which some teams would balk at, Jackson is said to be a favorite of new majority owner Michael Jordan after arriving last November from Golden State and teaming with Gerald Wallace to power the Bobcats into the postseason for the first time in franchise history.
But Larry Brown's fondness for Jackson, by contrast, has been in question since opening night, when the Bobcats' 70-year-old coach stunningly benched his co-captain for the entire fourth quarter of a game in Dallas that was still as close as nine points inside the final six minutes. Jackson fumed after Charlotte's eventual 101-86 defeat -- and there haven't been any repeat benchings -- but one rival GM said Thursday night that he believes the 32-year-old is "gettable" largely because these two strong wills are bound to keep clashing.
Sources told ESPN.com that San Antonio flirted with reacquiring the playoff-tested Jackson during the offseason ... and that Brown didn't oppose Jackson's departure. If that's not a sufficient hint, multiple sources consulted this week told ESPN.com that Wallace is generally regarded as Charlotte's only untouchable.
Proudiddy
11-12-2010, 05:31 PM
I would much rather make find a way to make this move salary wise, even if it means taking back a contract like Udrih's b/c he could help at PG, then give Hendo the 2 spot...
Anyway, I'm saying, Jack + whatever to make the salaries work, for Jason Thompson +salary filler. The Kings are shopping him and I can't think of another team that needs a big like him as much as we do. The Kings are shopping him... No mention of us though...
http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/70063/20101112/kings_have_shopped_thompson/
Black
11-12-2010, 06:57 PM
Sources told ESPN.com that San Antonio flirted with reacquiring the playoff-tested Jackson during the offseason ... and that Brown didn't oppose Jackson's departure. If that's not a sufficient hint, multiple sources consulted this week told ESPN.com that Wallace is generally regarded as Charlotte's only untouchable.
http://espn.go.com/nba/dailydime/_/page/dime-101112-14/testing-early-trade-winds
I'm not sure what we would want from the Spurs, but it's interesting that this never became public.
Black
11-12-2010, 07:56 PM
Slam Online lists us as one of five teams that could use Steve Nash:
4. Charlotte Bobcats
Give: D.J. Augustin, Gerald Henderson, Nazr Mohammed, Boris Diaw, First-Round draft pick(s)
Get: Steve Nash, Hedo Turkoglu
At first glance, picturing Nash on the Bobcats doesn’t exactly inspire a lot of confidence.
However, Charlotte has a roster fairly reminiscent of an older Suns team. Gerald Wallace takes the place of Shawn Marion, Tyrus Thomas has the athletic ability to match Amar’e Stoudemire and Stephen Jackson is a hybrid of Joe Johnson and Raja Bell.
Charlotte may not be a title favorite with this roster, but they would certainly be a dangerous team to contend with.
The Suns get back a promising young guard in D.J. Augustin, and while Gerald Henderson may be a project, he still has some upside.
With Phoenix looking for some financial relief, Nazr Mohammed has a nice expiring contract and Diaw’s contract is far easier to swallow when compared to Turkoglu.
Boris Diaw could also replicate some of his more successful years back in a free-flowing, uptempo offense. Diaw’s play-making abilities would also help to relieve the burden off the young point guards on the roster.
Both Larry Brown and Steve Nash would have to make adjustments, but there’s no reason to think that they wouldn’t be able to work together to bring some success to Charlotte.
SWedd523
11-12-2010, 08:08 PM
I hope I'm not the only one who would say no to Nash. I absolutely love him, but I just don't think it's a good fit. I want him to go to Dallas so he can ride into the sunset with Dirk.
Twan's Kin
11-12-2010, 08:10 PM
I wouldn't be willing to give up 4 or more players for Nash.
SWedd...I agree 100%...I love Nash but I think he'd be a bad fit for an LB team...if MJ wants to let LB go I'm all for it...
regarding the Spurs...if they want to send G. Hill to us I'm fine with trading but I'd still prefer to work a Kings deal if we can get JT...
SWedd523
11-12-2010, 08:40 PM
Yeah I was looking at George Hill, but the problem is that they really don't have contracts that match up with Jack. It'd be really hard to work out a likable deal
agree...would be very hard trade match...I only see it with the Spurs if a third teams is brought into the deal...
Plowright
11-12-2010, 09:36 PM
So Ryan Thompson is being shopped by the Kings. Do you guys think he is capable of playing Centre for us? Im not saying he is becuase, i genuinly dont know!
So Ryan Thompson is being shopped by the Kings. Do you guys think he is capable of playing Centre for us? Im not saying he is becuase, i genuinly dont know!
It's Jason Thompson and he played Center in college...he's big enough and versatile...
Pepperz
11-12-2010, 10:58 PM
Purgatory is better?
Its better then losing on purpose.
Plowright
11-13-2010, 08:03 AM
shit yer, not sure why i said Ryan lol. It was 3 am my time so i will put that one on sleep deprevation!
spankymoore7
11-13-2010, 08:35 AM
ESPN article mentions both Jackson and Caron Butler might be moved. So what about a swap between Charlotte and Dallas? Jackson wanted a trade to a team in Dallas before coming here. Caron Butler would keep us competitive and his contract expires after this season. This gives Hendo another season to improve before hopefully starting next year. With his contract and Mohammads coming off next summer hopefully that is enough money to get a nice center. Jackson improves Dallas, gives them toughness and defense. Not sure if Dallas would want a future pick to take on Jack's deal, though I figure Dallas owes us and should give us a break after our past trades with them haha. Thoughts?
ammofan
11-13-2010, 09:31 AM
I bet Jack gets moved soon....he really wasnt good again last night.......
I would deal him for R.Jefferson in SA at this point. He's playing really good. Maybe Pop will gift us Manu?
bbh2020
11-13-2010, 10:16 AM
a couple of notes from hoopshype, but nothing new:
If Charlotte acquires a point guard, it needs to be someone who is a clear upgrade over D.J. Augustin. Gilbert Arenas is not among the candidates, but Baron Davis could emerge as a possibility. (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=mc-afterthebuzzer111210) Davis still has three years and $41 million left on his contract, but has ties to Bobcats general manager Rod Higgins and swingman Stephen Jackson from his days with the Golden State Warriors. Yahoo! Sports (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=mc-afterthebuzzer111210)
The Raptors, who thought they had a deal to trade Jose Calderon to the Charlotte Bobcats this summer, are still open to moving either him or fellow point guard Jarrett Jack. (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=mc-afterthebuzzer111210) The turnover-prone Bobcats could use help at point guard, but aren’t expected to get back in the mix for Calderon. Yahoo! Sports (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=mc-afterthebuzzer111210)
Bearup is said to have initiated similar discussions with Philadelphia for Andre Iguodala, with Charlotte for Gerald Wallace, and eventually became the key driver from Denver's perspective of the four-team deal that would've sent Anthony to New Jersey and also involved Utah and Charlotte. That deal is "still on the table" from Denver's and New Jersey's perspective, according to two people involved in the negotiations. Many executives believe it remains the best deal Denver could've had once the July opportunity passed. Now, with the season underway, it will be much harder to recruit a third and fourth team (http://www.cbssports.com/nba/story/14285910/progress-in-denver-not-likely-to-mean-melo-stays). CBSSports.com (http://www.cbssports.com/nba/story/14285910/progress-in-denver-not-likely-to-mean-melo-stays)
I saw those blips on Hoopshype as well...I think because of the Rod connection any player that had anything to do with GSW will always be linked (somehow someway) to us until Rod leaves...
If we had any real interest in a Raptors PG they'd already be here...doubt we do anything with them...
NO (IMO) is a real possibility (caveat) if they are willing to take Jack+filler for Peja and Thornton...this one I could see happening...
I'd still rather see an upgrade at Center but as I posted earlier...difficult to do with a trade during the season...very few teams willing to trade a 5...and I still feel the Kings are our best bet if we could get JT...
addition:
I just ran some numbers on a trade with NO...with S. Jackson+Nazzy out and Peja+Thornton in we'd drop 12pts. and all other significant numbers across the board...A. Gray can't be included (back to us) since he's TRS (recent signing)...other than getting the Peja expiring it makes no real BB sense for us without another team to pass Peja (that really wants the expiring) to and pick up a Center...
a couple of notes from hoopshype, but nothing new:
If Charlotte acquires a point guard, it needs to be someone who is a clear upgrade over D.J. Augustin. Gilbert Arenas is not among the candidates, but Baron Davis could emerge as a possibility. (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=mc-afterthebuzzer111210) Davis still has three years and $41 million left on his contract, but has ties to Bobcats general manager Rod Higgins and swingman Stephen Jackson from his days with the Golden State Warriors. Yahoo! Sports (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=mc-afterthebuzzer111210)
The Raptors, who thought they had a deal to trade Jose Calderon to the Charlotte Bobcats this summer, are still open to moving either him or fellow point guard Jarrett Jack. (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=mc-afterthebuzzer111210) The turnover-prone Bobcats could use help at point guard, but aren’t expected to get back in the mix for Calderon. Yahoo! Sports (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=mc-afterthebuzzer111210)
Bearup is said to have initiated similar discussions with Philadelphia for Andre Iguodala, with Charlotte for Gerald Wallace, and eventually became the key driver from Denver's perspective of the four-team deal that would've sent Anthony to New Jersey and also involved Utah and Charlotte. That deal is "still on the table" from Denver's and New Jersey's perspective, according to two people involved in the negotiations. Many executives believe it remains the best deal Denver could've had once the July opportunity passed. Now, with the season underway, it will be much harder to recruit a third and fourth team (http://www.cbssports.com/nba/story/14285910/progress-in-denver-not-likely-to-mean-melo-stays). CBSSports.com (http://www.cbssports.com/nba/story/14285910/progress-in-denver-not-likely-to-mean-melo-stays)
1. given their performances and salaries none of the three are even close to an upgrade over dj
2. why would we swap gerald for iggy. iggy gives us more assists, better shooting, worse d, and less rebounds but is far more expensive
I saw those blips on Hoopshype as well...I think because of the Rod connection any player that had anything to do with GSW will always be linked (somehow someway) to us until Rod leaves...
If we had any real interest in a Raptors PG they'd already be here...doubt we do anything with them...
NO (IMO) is a real possibility (caveat) if they are willing to take Jack+filler for Peja and Thornton...this one I could see happening...
I'd still rather see an upgrade at Center but as I posted earlier...difficult to do with a trade during the season...very few teams willing to trade a 5...and I still feel the Kings are our best bet if we could get JT...
addition:
I just ran some numbers on a trade with NO...with S. Jackson+Nazzy out and Peja+Thornton in we'd drop 12pts. and all other significant numbers across the board...A. Gray can't be included (back to us) since he's TRS (recent signing)...other than getting the Peja expiring it makes no real BB sense for us without another team to pass Peja (that really wants the expiring) to and pick up a Center...
the deal would be part salary dump and part future trade asset. jax's contract plus attitude issues make him a difficult contract to move. although i think he will be awesome in NO where cp3 holds the controls to the offense.
DY_nasty
11-13-2010, 11:32 AM
Its better then losing on purpose.
Short term vs long term
I can put up with a tank season as long as I'm watching young guys bust their ass and improve. I can't stand watching a middling team thats part emo struggle to hold off the Pacers and Nets.
It makes a lot more sense to tank and build up some young talent than it does to pray that someone offers you a top 5 player for anything on this roster.
the deal would be part salary dump and part future trade asset. jax's contract plus attitude issues make him a difficult contract to move. although i think he will be awesome in NO where cp3 holds the controls to the offense.
Chef...I agree that it would be awesome for NO...but I'm looking to upgrade us not NO...LOL
...although I do have concerns about Jacks attitude winning solves that...and since he is probably our best piece to move I'd like to see us upgrade the 5 if/when we do move him...a deal with NO does give us flex with Peja coming off the books but IMO if we keep Jack we go back to the play-offs...the NO deal takes us out of that and really only gives cap space at the end of the season...and rumor has it Monty is not happy with Thorntons defense so I doubt LB would be happy with it...
DY_nasty
11-13-2010, 12:14 PM
I don't even see how Jackson is helping us at this point... Every shot he makes in the 4th quarter doesn't erase all the turnovers, ball stops, bad shots, and crap defense/effort in the first 3. His value is going to keep dropping with every game.
I don't even see how Jackson is helping us at this point... Every shot he makes in the 4th quarter doesn't erase all the turnovers, ball stops, bad shots, and crap defense/effort in the first 3. His value is going to keep dropping with every game.
If we assume he's not going to play any better then yes the value drops...but the trade with NO (IMO) does not help...and at this point I have to assume his game will come around...
But...the TOs are really getting on my nerves as with everyone else...but I have to think we could get a better deal...maybe not though...my major concern with the NO deal is we have no one (even with Thornton and his questionable defense) that I really see LB comfortable with starting at the SG position...
ammofan
11-13-2010, 12:33 PM
http://cache2.asset-cache.net/xc/78822464.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=77BFBA49EF87892155F29F61288AC1CA7DAB39E921ADA11C 81A109776962E142804B3618D4BA3975
the reunion.....Its happening
DY_nasty
11-13-2010, 01:06 PM
If we assume he's not going to play any better then yes the value drops...but the trade with NO (IMO) does not help...and at this point I have to assume his game will come around...
But...the TOs are really getting on my nerves as with everyone else...but I have to think we could get a better deal...maybe not though...my major concern with the NO deal is we have no one (even with Thornton and his questionable defense) that I really see LB comfortable with starting at the SG position...
Peja's expiring is sexy, and Thronton is more than capable of starting.
The TOs are one thing, but his general lack of effort is what kills me.
If Thornton can't start for Monty because of his defense then he's not starting for LB...
I'd have felt better if Jack had lost the 10lbs. during the off-season LB asked him to instead he showed up 5lbs. heavier...Jack is hard to read on the best of days...but again you trade him for what...salary relief at the end of the season and a SG LB probably will not play...there is no upgrade there...but if that really is the best we can do fine...I have my doubts about it being the best we can do with Jack...but I'm game just don't expect too much from Thornton with LB though...
DY_nasty
11-13-2010, 02:00 PM
If Thornton can't start for Monty because of his defense then he's not starting for LB...
I'd have felt better if Jack had lost the 10lbs. during the off-season LB asked him to instead he showed up 5lbs. heavier...Jack is hard to read on the best of days...but again you trade him for what...salary relief at the end of the season and a SG LB probably will not play...there is no upgrade there...but if that really is the best we can do fine...I have my doubts about it being the best we can do with Jack...but I'm game just don't expect too much from Thornton with LB though...Just to clarify, I meant that he's more capable of starting than Henderson at the moment.
Flip wasn't exactly a defensive stopper either.
Flip did not start and could play defense...Hendo plays better defense than Thornton so there is no reason (again) to think that LB would start Thornton...
DY_nasty
11-13-2010, 03:42 PM
Flip did not start and could play defense...Hendo plays better defense than Thornton so there is no reason (again) to think that LB would start Thornton...Of course Flip didn't start over Jackson, but he got the minutes over Henderson even though Henderson's defense in his rookie year was very good.
It not like Larry Brown always makes defense the priority either. He sometimes overvalues it, but he still won't start Tyrus over Diaw or Diop over Nazr.
Also, whatever issues in NO must be off the court... I have a hard time believing that Marco plays better defense than Thornton.
Of course Flip didn't start over Jackson, but he got the minutes over Henderson even though Henderson's defense in his rookie year was very good.
It not like Larry Brown always makes defense the priority either. He sometimes overvalues it, but he still won't start Tyrus over Diaw or Diop over Nazr.
Also, whatever issues in NO must be off the court... I have a hard time believing that Marco plays better defense than Thornton.
Look...I can only go by reports coming out of NO that Monty has problems with Thorntons' defense...that is all I can go by..
No one that I'm aware of understands LBs man-crush on "Doris"...
...and Nazzy has proven to be a better all-around better player than Diop...
Pepperz
11-13-2010, 07:22 PM
Short term vs long term
I can put up with a tank season as long as I'm watching young guys bust their ass and improve. I can't stand watching a middling team thats part emo struggle to hold off the Pacers and Nets.
It makes a lot more sense to tank and build up some young talent than it does to pray that someone offers you a top 5 player for anything on this roster.
Building a contending team is that simple? Lets suck for a couple years, get high draft picks, pick up SUPERSTARS with each top 5 pick we get and in just a couple years, BAM. NBA Finals.
Building a contending team is that simple? Lets suck for a couple years, get high draft picks, pick up SUPERSTARS with each top 5 pick we get and in just a couple years, BAM. NBA Finals.
Just ask Portland.
DY_nasty
11-13-2010, 10:51 PM
Building a contending team is that simple? Lets suck for a couple years, get high draft picks, pick up SUPERSTARS with each top 5 pick we get and in just a couple years, BAM. NBA Finals.
Attack my argument instead of building your own. Thats fun lol
What team in the NBA that you know of has been built around two wing players over 28? You didn't see Seattle throwing money at Rashard Lewis and begging Ray Allen to stay. Sacramento folded when it needed to as well and now they've got a great young core of players. Chicago was smart enough not to spend every penny on guys that weren't going to get them anywhere and even though it didn't work out with Jay Williams, they got another great pg prospect to go along with the other lottery talent that they assembled. Miami even made things work by going with Wade over Jones. Orlando? Tmac & Friends didn't work out - bring in Dwight, be patient, ECF. Wasn't working in DC with Butler/Jamison/Arenas - blow it up. Good young cheap players with plenty of potential, get arenas out and they're cooking with gas. Portland cleaned out the JailBlazers, got under the cap, laid some great building blocks and if their arena wasn't cursed they'd have been the #2 seed in the west. Atlanta - kept the cap low enough while still bringing in young players to put themselves in a position to sign Joe Johnson.
So uh... yeah. Not saying that the team will be in contention overnight, never have. All of those were multi-year projects with ups and downs. Now go and tell me about a NBA team that built itself around a guy who is the #2 headcase in all the league and another who almost tries to injure himself every night that has a bright future.
So uh... yeah. Not saying that the team will be in contention overnight, never have. All of those were multi-year projects with ups and downs. Now go and tell me about a NBA team that built itself around a guy who is the #2 headcase in all the league and another who almost tries to injure himself every night that has a bright future.
2003 Detroit Pistons.
Sheed was the headcase, and Prince and Ben both played all out.
Oh, and what would you consider Atlanta's chances of contending? Since they rebuilt, and now they're locked in to this team. Perhaps we should talk about how the Hornets built through the draft and never made it anywhere. Or maybe how Memphis always rebuilds every three years and still can't get in the playoffs. Or how the Clippers keep trying to build with the draft and never get anywhere. Or how Minny rebuilt and can't do anything because the players are the only professionals on the payroll. Or how Denver, Dallas, and Cleveland all built through the draft and have nothing to show for it. And likely never will in their respective stars careers (Cleveland's already locked into that). Look, I'm not saying that blowing it up never works, but for every OKC/Orlando/Boston, there's a team like LA or SAS that somehow keeps improving without blowing anything up.
DY_nasty
11-13-2010, 11:15 PM
2003 Detroit Pistons.
Sheed was the headcase, and Prince and Ben both played all out.
Oh, and what would you consider Atlanta's chances of contending? Since they rebuilt, and now they're locked in to this team. Perhaps we should talk about how the Hornets built through the draft and never made it anywhere. Or maybe how Memphis always rebuilds every three years and still can't get in the playoffs. Or how the Clippers keep trying to build with the draft and never get anywhere. Or how Minny rebuilt and can't do anything because the players are the only professionals on the payroll. Or how Denver, Dallas, and Cleveland all built through the draft and have nothing to show for it. And likely never will in their respective stars careers (Cleveland's already locked into that). Look, I'm not saying that blowing it up never works, but for every OKC/Orlando/Boston, there's a team like LA or SAS that somehow keeps improving without blowing anything up.
Sheed came in late. He was the finishing touch with that team, not one of the two primary pieces.
Would anyone say that Atlanta doesn't have the talent to make a run to the ECF? No, their issues are mental. Have been for years now. Memphis is undoubtedly run by the worst GM in the league. Clippers have a racist owner and are the Clippers (cmon son). Cleveland is doomed to fail at every sport, forever (cmon son). Minnesota is still very much a work in progress - and even then Rambis is going to end up fired because he likes to bench his best players for no reason, check the gamelogs.
Denver and Dallas were both contenders, Dallas still is. Denver, like Atlanta, has the talent, but not the mentality. If Dallas doesn't get the most sideways officiating this decade, they have a ring.
Still, I'd be more than happy to be in a position of some of those teams with real pieces to build around than what we have now, especially considering where most of our money is going.
Am I sounding crazy or something? Its like people run to the flukiest stuff whenever trying to disprove something I say (2003 Pistons, like that'll ever happen again. Boston trade, LA trade...) Oh, and about SAS - aside from Duncan's draft, they've done an outstanding job of drafting well and developing talent inhouse. They really are one of the best organizations in all of sports.
Sheed came in late. He was the finishing touch with that team, not one of the two primary pieces.
Would anyone say that Atlanta doesn't have the talent to make a run to the ECF? No, their issues are mental. Have been for years now. Memphis is undoubtedly run by the worst GM in the league. Clippers have a racist owner and are the Clippers (cmon son). Cleveland is doomed to fail at every sport, forever (cmon son). Minnesota is still very much a work in progress - and even then Rambis is going to end up fired because he likes to bench his best players for no reason, check the gamelogs.
Denver and Dallas were both contenders, Dallas still is. Denver, like Atlanta, has the talent, but not the mentality. If Dallas doesn't get the most sideways officiating this decade, they have a ring.
Still, I'd be more than happy to be in a position of some of those teams with real pieces to build around than what we have now, especially considering where most of our money is going.
Am I sounding crazy or something? Its like people run to the flukiest stuff whenever trying to disprove something I say (2003 Pistons, like that'll ever happen again. Boston trade, LA trade...) Oh, and about SAS - aside from Duncan's draft, they've done an outstanding job of drafting well and developing talent inhouse. They really are one of the best organizations in all of sports.
My point with Detroit is that it CAN happen. With the current Bobcats squad, no way in hell, but it CAN happen.
What I was saying with the other "contenders" is, I forsee no way that any of them win a ring, and I can't honestly even see them making the finals outside MAYBE Dallas, but that'd be a shocker. I sure as hell wouldn't want to be a Hawk fan or a Denver fan. They can't get to the top, but (especially in ATL's case) they're paying like they are.
As far as the bumbling/cursed/whatever teams, who's to say that Charlotte isn't in that category?
It's not that rebuilding is a bad thing. But this team isn't there yet. The only "major" thing they need to do is either get cap relief and a mediocre starter for Jack, or move him for another piece. Other than that, or an upgrade at center via Nazr's expiring, they need to see what they have first. DJ's looking like Aaron Brooks out there, Crash is Crash and TT solves the 4 long term, so the 2 and 5 are the only places they may look for help.
DY_nasty
11-14-2010, 11:14 AM
My point with Detroit is that it CAN happen. With the current Bobcats squad, no way in hell, but it CAN happen.
What I was saying with the other "contenders" is, I forsee no way that any of them win a ring, and I can't honestly even see them making the finals outside MAYBE Dallas, but that'd be a shocker. I sure as hell wouldn't want to be a Hawk fan or a Denver fan. They can't get to the top, but (especially in ATL's case) they're paying like they are.
As far as the bumbling/cursed/whatever teams, who's to say that Charlotte isn't in that category?
It's not that rebuilding is a bad thing. But this team isn't there yet. The only "major" thing they need to do is either get cap relief and a mediocre starter for Jack, or move him for another piece. Other than that, or an upgrade at center via Nazr's expiring, they need to see what they have first. DJ's looking like Aaron Brooks out there, Crash is Crash and TT solves the 4 long term, so the 2 and 5 are the only places they may look for help.This is the NBA - Rings are damn near impossible. Parity is nonexistent. 50+ wins, deep playoff runs and that should be considered a resounding success. Just to clarify, but thats all that I've been suggesting.
The whole point of listing those teams before was just to point out which teams had a substantially brighter future than the Bobcats because of their cap situation and young talent. There's no point in making lateral at best trades or gambling on guys with baggage - we're trying to tweak something that isn't there to begin with. And when you do that for long enough you end up like Detroit, then its just 3 more years of middling.
Crash isn't going to last another 3 years anyway. I love the guy, and I knoooow others love him too, but I'm not going to like watching zombie wallace.
I see no real way to get close to value for Crash...Jackson may or may not have much value...we all talk (including me) of nifty ideas regarding trades but if the best (actual) trade that has come up in the last three months is "Doris" for Caleron that's not good...
We've started the Jackson for Peja/Thornton conversation but there is no real indication that NO even wants that deal...and if it is Crash they want it sux for us...
Nazzy is a solid back-up and I doubt we get much for him and he's given every indication he wants to end here...there needs to be some vet-type-players to help young guys and I'd rather see him stay for a couple more years on a better contract...
The Kings are a great example of a team getting solid talent from the draft...but all indications are they're having problems since "most" of their young players seem to think they know more about the game than their coaches...I can pass that one up...
Good balance...youth/vets has always had more appeal to me and I think we have a fairly good balance now...but if we can gain anything trading Jack I'm for it...but the key for me is we have to actually "gain"...I don't mean fleece whomever we trade with but it clearly needs to be a gain for the team...
Pepperz
11-14-2010, 11:45 AM
That's your solution in a summary. How do you think every one of those teams got there superstar. DC, Orlando, and Chicago got them with the 1st pick. OKC with the 2nd. Sacramento, Miami, Portland with the 4th, 5th, 6th. Most of those teams remained in the basement for YEARS. Is that your plan for a team that is just starting to build some kind of fan base.
Now look at your reasoning for when you "attack somebody's argument."
Clippers have a racist owner and are the Clippers (cmon son). Cleveland is doomed to fail at every sport, forever (cmon son).
I break down your idea to a few simple steps and you go and ramble off about racism and voodoo being the reason why 2 teams have not done so well with your method.
It would be best if we just played out with the team we got now. Unless some team is REALLY interested in Jackson or somebody else, we can make a trade then but only if we KNOW we are getting something back better in the deal. Forcing trades even if its for expiring, young talent, and draft picks are never a good idea. You give up to much or take on to much.
DY_nasty
11-14-2010, 12:51 PM
That's your solution in a summary. How do you think every one of those teams got there superstar. DC, Orlando, and Chicago got them with the 1st pick. OKC with the 2nd. Sacramento, Miami, Portland with the 4th, 5th, 6th. Most of those teams remained in the basement for YEARS. Is that your plan for a team that is just starting to build some kind of fan base.
Now look at your reasoning for when you "attack somebody's argument."
I break down your idea to a few simple steps and you go and ramble off about racism and voodoo being the reason why 2 teams have not done so well with your method.
It would be best if we just played out with the team we got now. Unless some team is REALLY interested in Jackson or somebody else, we can make a trade then but only if we KNOW we are getting something back better in the deal. Forcing trades even if its for expiring, young talent, and draft picks are never a good idea. You give up to much or take on to much.
Years? Orlando was in the basement for how long? They got rid of McGrady, dropped Francis... you know laid groundwork. It took them 3-4 years. OKC dropped Ray Allen and Shard over the course of two seasons. Built up a team over the next two. Sac had some house cleaning to do, Miami didn't 'tank' until they wanted to get Rose/Beas/Mayo, Portland managed to clean house as well as their image. None of these processes took relatively long.
Now tell me that getting a clean slate to work with as soon as possible is worse than running with aging wing players, a missing draft pick, and a bunch of bad contracts - please, I just don't understand the logic of clinging to something that will inevitably fail. Keeping Jackson just so that we can do... what exactly? Drop him for an expiring while its still an option. Get rid of Crash before he stops getting back up, I have nothing but respect for the guy but how much longer is he going to keep going at this pace? Its only been 10 games and he's already taken more big hits than anyone else in the league. But keeping them around makes sense? What are we supposed to, trade for some starting caliber center that doesn't exist with the trade assets that aren't even that good? You say that we'll give up too much, but we barely have anything to begin with.
btw, the clippers have always sucked, have an owner that was hit for housing discrimination as well as several other race related issues, and have always sucked. cleveland has a history of being screwed over in sports. I don't even see the point of bringing up two historical failures in this kind of discussion.
And to say that trading for expiring contracts, young talents, or draft picks is never a good idea just... well, i'm not sure how long you've been following the nba, but even LA used Kwame's expiring and draft picks for Pau and without the young players and expirings then Boston doesn't make its God-tier trade either. Both teams that you brought up earlier.
Scottley Crue
11-14-2010, 04:59 PM
Though it might make some sense trade Jack or Crash to start over at a basketball level, there's more at play with this franchise. Bob Johnson dug quite a big hole in the community and Jordan is doing a lot of things to reverse that. The biggest knock against Bob is that he was cheap....if Jordan was to right now trade some of his best players for cap space, I think that would undo a boatload of good will he's built up with the city. It could easily be perceived that Jordan was cheap like Bob, or worse, not giving the support an owner should to his team. (See a few blocks away from TWC Arena to see how that's being received)
The 'Cats need to show they're trying to win for the next few years to get the support financially that they need to really take a shot a consistent playoff appearances and championship contention. Were this team in town 15 years and this group was here, I could entertain the idea of cap space for our best players. But there's much more to consider than purely basketball. I think it's the right thing to do right now to see where this group, with additions here and there, can go.
jdub28
11-14-2010, 05:11 PM
This thread is missing the funnest part of trade speculation, the crazy fan trades.
OUT
Stephen Jackson
Boris Diaw
DJ Augustin
IN
Andre Iguodala
Marreese Speights
Lou Williams
I know Iguodala's contract is huge but like Emeka, I think people let the numbers blind them to just how good of a defender, rebounder, and creator he can be. He isn't an immediate upgrade over Capt. Jack but by the end of the year I think everyone would be pleased with the swap.
As for the other two, Speights and Williams come off the bench and still put up about the same numbers as Diaw and Augustin in less minutes.
This trade makes the Bobcats younger, while still maintaining a level of play (and maybe gets them back to last years defensive intensity) that can get them to the playoffs. Philly makes room for Evan Turner, keeps a solid backup for Jrue Holiday, and gets a backup for Elton Brand NOT named Darius Songaila.
Well?
jdub28
11-14-2010, 05:23 PM
Sorry double post, but I've been wasting time the whole week at work with the trade machine and rumor pages, and there aren't too many teams that can give back players that are as important to the Bobcats as Jack and Crash. Can someone explain the mess that is our draft picks over the next few years? If it comes down to all out rebuilding mode, clearing cap space wouldn't seem to do much for a team that, even with MJ, can't attract big name free agents. So trading for VC or Peja doesn't seem like it will be much help, and there is really no reason for a lottery team to give up picks for Jackson or Wallace.
The Bobcats are pretty much stuck.
ammofan
11-14-2010, 05:28 PM
This thread is missing the funnest part of trade speculation, the crazy fan trades.
OUT
Stephen Jackson
Boris Diaw
DJ Augustin
IN
Andre Iguodala
Marreese Speights
Lou Williams
I know Iguodala's contract is huge but like Emeka, I think people let the numbers blind them to just how good of a defender, rebounder, and creator he can be. He isn't an immediate upgrade over Capt. Jack but by the end of the year I think everyone would be pleased with the swap.
As for the other two, Speights and Williams come off the bench and still put up about the same numbers as Diaw and Augustin in less minutes.
This trade makes the Bobcats younger, while still maintaining a level of play (and maybe gets them back to last years defensive intensity) that can get them to the playoffs. Philly makes room for Evan Turner, keeps a solid backup for Jrue Holiday, and gets a backup for Elton Brand NOT named Darius Songaila.
Well?
No thank u........all three of our guys are actually playing decent. Im all for dealing Jack for the right players, but not DJ AND Diaw along with him.
ziggy
11-14-2010, 05:40 PM
I think the main reason that we CANNOT blow up this team in hopes of getting a high draft pick is $$$$.
If they blew it up, and had say 3 seasons of 25-30 wins, they would be playing in an almost empty arena and would be bleeding money.
I don't think Jordan can financially afford to do that for 3 years.
Chef...I agree that it would be awesome for NO...but I'm looking to upgrade us not NO...LOL
what i meant was if we can see that he will be much more under control with a dominant point guard, so do gm's meaning the contract/attitude issues may not be as big a deal as some may think.
jdub28
11-14-2010, 06:01 PM
I think the main reason that we CANNOT blow up this team in hopes of getting a high draft pick is $$$$.
If they blew it up, and had say 3 seasons of 25-30 wins, they would be playing in an almost empty arena and would be bleeding money.
I don't think Jordan can financially afford to do that for 3 years.
I agree ziggy. A rebuilding period might be the end of Charlotte basketball for a while.
I agree ziggy. A rebuilding period might be the end of Charlotte basketball for a while.
i agree. despite a horrid start each home game looks like it is at least 3/4 full which is two quarters more than last year. but, if we can get peja or vc's contract with naz's and some luck we can flip them for young players or draft picks and do a semi-rebuild. the history behind it is very great but if we could luck out and get one good draft we'd be in business.
another reason to do the hypothetical jax deal to NO. dj is coming along very nicely. as the bcp record shows i was one of his biggest doubters. i still put him in the jason terry category but he does show some good signs that he could become a very good starting point guard. the biggest problem and one of the reasons for our losses to the spurs and jazz is that he is not the floor general of the team. he doesn't set the pace, decide who gets the shots, etc. as long as jax is on the team he can defer to jax by just giving him the ball and getting out of the way. the only way he is going to learn how to do this (like rondo, cp3, nash, williams) is by being forced to do it.
Pepperz
11-14-2010, 08:02 PM
Years? Orlando was in the basement for how long? They got rid of McGrady, dropped Francis... you know laid groundwork. It took them 3-4 years. OKC dropped Ray Allen and Shard over the course of two seasons. Built up a team over the next two. Sac had some house cleaning to do, Miami didn't 'tank' until they wanted to get Rose/Beas/Mayo, Portland managed to clean house as well as their image. None of these processes took relatively long.
Now tell me that getting a clean slate to work with as soon as possible is worse than running with aging wing players, a missing draft pick, and a bunch of bad contracts - please, I just don't understand the logic of clinging to something that will inevitably fail. Keeping Jackson just so that we can do... what exactly? Drop him for an expiring while its still an option. Get rid of Crash before he stops getting back up, I have nothing but respect for the guy but how much longer is he going to keep going at this pace? Its only been 10 games and he's already taken more big hits than anyone else in the league. But keeping them around makes sense? What are we supposed to, trade for some starting caliber center that doesn't exist with the trade assets that aren't even that good? You say that we'll give up too much, but we barely have anything to begin with.
btw, the clippers have always sucked, have an owner that was hit for housing discrimination as well as several other race related issues, and have always sucked. cleveland has a history of being screwed over in sports. I don't even see the point of bringing up two historical failures in this kind of discussion.
And to say that trading for expiring contracts, young talents, or draft picks is never a good idea just... well, i'm not sure how long you've been following the nba, but even LA used Kwame's expiring and draft picks for Pau and without the young players and expirings then Boston doesn't make its God-tier trade either. Both teams that you brought up earlier.
Orlando got lucky with the bounce of the ball. Bobcats expansion year and we end up with EO while they end up with Dwight. Let me guess, they planned that one. Same with OKC, another lucky situation. Portland choose the wrong person and Durant ends up being the next big thing. Miami didnt tank because they wanted to, Wade got injured. It took Portland 4 years to get back into the playoffs. Every one of those took minimum a 4 year process. I dont know what you consider long but 4 years is a long time to any fan in the sports world. You dont seem to understand that quite a bit of luck is involved with your process just like with any way a team goes with. So lets spare the heartache of losing season after losing season just for the hope that you might build a team the "right way."
I said FORCING TRADES is never a good idea EVEN if its for expiring, young talent, and draft picks. Its simple fucking business here. I got expiring, young talent, and draft pick. Why would I trade you at equal value when I know you are willing to give up more or even take back some of my baggage.
Then maybe we should use our expiring when the time comes so we can get the next Pau. You said SAS are a well run organization and I agree with that 100% so why cant we just become better at drafting in the later rounds like them and make smarter trades. I rather follow SAS model then OKC model. Im just not a fan of sucking for 4+ years in the hopes of something better should happen.
Chef...I'm not opposed to moving Jack but I'm of the same mind-set as Ziggy...I'm not sure we have the fan base to start a rebuild job...if Jack can clearly get us something (not just an expiring) I'm all for it...I know SWedd was big on Thornton and I'm assuming he still is so I'm sure the guy has some talents but starter at this point? I kinda doubt (as I've said) he'd start for LB if he can't start for Monty...which brings me to my other concern...CP3 is one of the best so it bothers me this guy is having (whatever they are) issues in NO...
I think Jack would do well in NO but again I'm not sure another expiring (on the heels of the dust chip) is going to cut it with the "average" fan...I think if we could get Gray (but he's TRS) along with Thornton it would probably work...but again running the numbers this would hurt our already pathetic offense so it would be a major risk and I think that is what MJ is hoping to avoid...
Black
11-14-2010, 09:42 PM
The Hornets waived Joe Alexander. Possibly opening a roster spot for a potential trade, but more than likely just because he sucks.
DY_nasty
11-14-2010, 09:58 PM
Orlando got lucky with the bounce of the ball. Bobcats expansion year and we end up with EO while they end up with Dwight. Let me guess, they planned that one. Same with OKC, another lucky situation. Portland choose the wrong person and Durant ends up being the next big thing. Miami didnt tank because they wanted to, Wade got injured. It took Portland 4 years to get back into the playoffs. Every one of those took minimum a 4 year process. I dont know what you consider long but 4 years is a long time to any fan in the sports world. You dont seem to understand that quite a bit of luck is involved with your process just like with any way a team goes with. So lets spare the heartache of losing season after losing season just for the hope that you might build a team the "right way."
I said FORCING TRADES is never a good idea EVEN if its for expiring, young talent, and draft picks. Its simple fucking business here. I got expiring, young talent, and draft pick. Why would I trade you at equal value when I know you are willing to give up more or even take back some of my baggage.
Then maybe we should use our expiring when the time comes so we can get the next Pau. You said SAS are a well run organization and I agree with that 100% so why cant we just become better at drafting in the later rounds like them and make smarter trades. I rather follow SAS model then OKC model. Im just not a fan of sucking for 4+ years in the hopes of something better should happen.Uh... yeah? Hell, they went ahead and dropped McGrady when he said he wasn't down to rebuild with a high school kid too lol. Also, at the time, People thought that Okafor was the better player anyways... OKC wasn't lucky either lol. They didn't 'luck' into trading Ray and they made the smart move to not sign Shard and clear our the rest of their roster when it became clear that their two man show wasn't doing anything. Miami was trash twice - the first time they had to lock Riley in a room so that they could pick Wade. The next time was when Wade got hurt - the thing was, Wade was more than ready to come back, so was Marion, and everyone else on their team, instead of grinding it out though they made the decision to tank it all the way out. That team finished the season with D-leaguers in their starting rotation. Their coach even went on vacation early man. Portland did a great job... sucks that Pritch got fired, but what he did building up talent through the draft was amazing (though holding on to it for too long and overvaluing certain players is what got him fired... among other things).
Another thing, about SAS, the way they got Duncan... that kind of shit is unlikely to say the least. When I refer to them, I speak of their ability to develop talent in house and sign vets to positions that don't interfere with the growth of there young players while also filling needs. OKC, even without Durant, is still a great situation. Say they picked Oden instead of Durant, they've still got a wealth of young talent, cap space, and (at least) all of their picks.
And 4 years isn't really that long either in the sports world. Maybe in the NFL where the average lifespan of a player is much shorter, but in the NBA its not time at all. Joe Alexander hasn't even disappeared yet lol
Not sure what you mean by 'forcing a trade' either btw... still, you put yourself in relatively poor position when it comes to trying to get good young players through trades alone.
Proudiddy
11-14-2010, 10:32 PM
Honestly, fans are going to be fans. Most of us that care enough to post about this team are going to be here through thick and thin, whether we are happy or not.
My biggest problem with this season is that we didn't make ANY moves of significance to help this team. We went into this season with basically the same roster that got swept in the first round of the playoffs, and somehow, the front office tried to convince us that this team would be better. WRONG. The ceiling for this team, is exactly what it was last year... A JV team for the elite Eastern teams to drub in the opening round. And that wasn't going to, and WON'T change until we add a scoring big and a legitimate go-to man (which aren't exactly easy to come by).
We could've at least addressed one of those needs, and IMO, until Livingston shows a little bit more, I still think we need a legitimate backup at PG.
I would actually be excited for whatever moves we make this offseason to improve.
Thornton from NO could possibly evolve into that go-to scorer, I don't know, but it's hard to look towards the future with hope when our current best offensive player is 32 years old or so and currently sucks. We aren't built for the long-term the way we are constructed, so the way I look at it, we may as well get it over with and blow up a good part of the team, because it's not built to last regardless.
Pepperz
11-14-2010, 11:05 PM
McGrady had his worse season ever in the NBA so I wasnt surprised that McGrady wanted to move on. It had nothing to do with Dwight. Look at the time table. He was traded before Dwight was drafted. I wouldnt pay Shard that money either. They knew they werent going to do it so they did a sign and trade with the Magic so they get a 2nd round pick and 9 million trade exception. A smart move on there part. Instead of just letting him walk, they atleast get something back. The Ray trade can be kind of questionable. OKC traded Ray and Glenn Davis for D. West, Wally, and Jeff Green. Makes you wonder how good a team with Ray and Davis on it would do with Durant and the boys. OKC would still be a good team but they will not be the contender they are now with out Durant.
Do you even know the history of the NBA? Miami had one bad year since they drafted Wade. In the years they had Wade, the worse year for the Heat was 15 wins. Guess what the second worse record since he's been there. 42 wins. Where is this they were trash for two years coming from.
Forcing trades is when you do what it takes to get the deal done. You want these picks and cap relief and so you are going to trade away more then the value its worth just to get what you want.
Stop talking like you were there in the locker room for these teams. Really, you knew Wade and the full condition he was in. You knew him on a personal level.
rsxnova
11-15-2010, 09:17 AM
The Hawks turned down Teague for Jason Thompson. Maybe we could get him for Liv?
The Hawks turned down Teague for Jason Thompson. Maybe we could get him for Liv?
Not until Dec. 15th...
rsxnova
11-15-2010, 09:44 AM
I wonder what they would say to Sherron Collins and a 2nd for JT?
They've wanted DJ so I doubt they take anyone other than DJ...we've had some discussion (SWedd I think) that proposed expanding a trade with the Kings to include Beno...I'm not sure that anyone would really want to do that now...I guess it would depend on them taking one of our "bad" contracts like Diop to make it work...at this point they might actually do that deal...DJ+Diop for JT+Beno...
rsxnova
11-15-2010, 10:30 AM
They've wanted DJ so I doubt they take anyone other than DJ...we've had some discussion (SWedd I think) that proposed expanding a trade with the Kings to include Beno...I'm not sure that anyone would really want to do that now...I guess it would depend on them taking one of our "bad" contracts like Diop to make it work...at this point they might actually do that deal...DJ+Diop for JT+Beno...
I think the Kings value Beno more since the season started(much like us with DJ). They are also looking to move JT which means they shouldnt get full market value. We just need to come up with a solid offer. Maybe a threeway with the Raptors moving Jarret Jack to the kings, JT to us and ? to toronto.
I think the Kings value Beno more since the season started(much like us with DJ). They are also looking to move JT which means they shouldnt get full market value. We just need to come up with a solid offer. Maybe a threeway with the Raptors moving Jarret Jack to the kings, JT to us and ? to toronto.
That's the problem rsxnova without DJ included who do with put into the blank that would work? Raptors would take "Doris" but the contracts will not work...Hendo would work but he's not what the Raptors are after so it would be tough IMO...
Hendo + future 2nd for JT and conditional future 2nd?
rsxnova
11-15-2010, 10:38 AM
That's the problem rsxnova without DJ included who do with put into the blank that would work? Raptors would take "Doris" but the contracts will not work...Hendo would work but he's not what the Raptors are after so it would be tough IMO...
Think they would be interested in Najera and a 2nd?
I don't know why it work but I just put this trade in at RealGM trade checker and it did work...maybe Raptors have more cap-space tthan I thought...?
Charlotte out...."Doris"
in...Jason Thompson
Raptors out...J. Jack
in...Doris
Kings out....J. Thompson
in....J. Jack
This is the trade link...hope it works...just checked and it appears to work...
http://www.realgm.com/src_checktrade.php?tradeid=5735222
spectre
11-15-2010, 10:45 AM
I don't know why it work but I just put this trade in at RealGM trade checker and it did work...maybe Raptors have more cap-space tthan I thought...?
Charlotte out...."Doris"
in...Jason Thompson
Raptors out...J. Jack
in...Doris
Kings out....J. Thompson
in....J. Jack
This is the trade link...hope it works...just checked and it appears to work...
http://www.realgm.com/src_checktrade.php?tradeid=5735222
Toronto has the Bosh trade exception, so that's probably why it works.
From their interest in Teague and their previous interest in DJ I don't know that Jack would be what they're looking for. Seems they want an up and comer...for which I don't blame them.
I don't either spectre...would you still do a DJ+Diop for JT+Beno...and do you think the Kings would?
I don't either spectre...would you still do a DJ+Diop for JT+Beno...and do you think the Kings would?
That's tough. Beno would contribute far more than Diop for the same money, but DJ is finally showing himself and while JT would be a major upgrade in the post, I'm not sure it's worth it.
If they included Hassan, then I'd probably pull the trigger. Between him and JT, someone's going to be an NBA player.
rsxnova
11-15-2010, 10:51 AM
I don't know why it work but I just put this trade in at RealGM trade checker and it did work...maybe Raptors have more cap-space tthan I thought...?
Charlotte out...."Doris"
in...Jason Thompson
Raptors out...J. Jack
in...Doris
Kings out....J. Thompson
in....J. Jack
This is the trade link...hope it works...just checked and it appears to work...
http://www.realgm.com/src_checktrade.php?tradeid=5735222
The Raptors are setting at 63mil right now.
I could def live with this lineup
DJ/Liv/Collins
Jack/Hendo/Carrol
GWall/UPS/Who the fuck
TT/JT/Najera
JT/Nazzy/Diop
JT can play around 30-35 per game and probably average a DD. Keeping Nazzys mins down is a must to keep him fresh.
Black
11-15-2010, 11:29 AM
The Hawks turned down a Teague for Thompson deal, so that gives you an idea of how the Kings are valuing him.
The Hawks turned down a Teague for Thompson deal, so that gives you an idea of how the Kings are valuing him.
I don't blame the Kings for asking but the more they're turned down the more they either do one of two things...keep him or trade him for less...
This just posted on Bill Ingrams chat...thought it interesting...
Jeremy in Bay Roberts, NL:
hey bill! Would the raptors be better served having Sonny start and LK come off the bench?? Also would a deal of Jack and Evans for Thompson work for both teams?? Thanks!
http://www.hoopsworld.com/images/hw_icon.gif
Bill Ingram:
Jack is just what the Kings need at the point and Thompson could help the Raptors, for sure. Evans has an expiring deal . . .not a bad move, though I imagine the Kings could find better return if they do decide to trade Thompson.
Read more NBA news and insight: http://www.hoopsworld.com/chat.asp?status=&CHAT_TOPICS_ID=1274#ixzz15Myr8qVK
I've just received my answer back from Ingram on his chat...I asked the Jackson and Crash trading them and here is his response...
Larry in :
Good morning Bill...many fans (not me) at our fan-site want to "blow" the Bobcats up because of our start...kinda tough question for you...what do you think the 'Cats could "realistically" get in a trade for S. Jackson or G. Wallace?
http://www.hoopsworld.com/images/hw_icon.gif
Bill Ingram:
Well, the team is off to a dreadfully slow start after finishing last season on such a high. I think you're talking about the wrong players in terms of trades, though. You don't rip out the heart of the team - the first All-Star and the guy who made them believe in themselves - and then expect to be better. Their biggest need is one they can't fill - starting center. Those aren't just lying around. They should have kept Chandler, but money got in the way of wins. Same thing with Felton . . .If Jordan's not willing to spend money the team simply won't be in playoff contention . . .no matter what trades they might make. Baron Davis, anyone? He'd love to be back with Jax!
Read more NBA news and insight: http://www.hoopsworld.com/chat.asp?status=&CHAT_TOPICS_ID=1274#ixzz15N12tv6R
I always like to get an opinion away from ours since we all tend to fall on one side of the equation...for or against...I like Bill and I like the answer but still does not resolve our issue of a starting Center...the thing I still see as our biggest need...
Demon DeaCat
11-15-2010, 12:56 PM
Wow, there's a lot on this thread. Just a few thoughts-
I'm definitely not in the blow it up camp either. Absolutely no reason to do that. As of today there are exactly 5 teams in the east above .500. We're no where near out of playoff contention at this point despite the poor start, and we're playing better of late.
I think Jax is being villified, somewhat unfairly, in the same manner that Boris has been in the past. No question he needs to cut down on the TOs and techs, but he is still a capable scorer, which we desperately need, and we're probably winless without the big shots he's made. We'd be bad on the level of the 09-10 Nets without him.
While I agree that we need to address the C position given Nazr's age and the fact that he's in the final year of his contract, I think he is one of the most underappreciated players in the league, even among Bobcats fans. The other night is a prime example of what he's capable of when he's allowed to play more than 16 minutes. He had some great games last year as well when he got to play. I get that we need to watch his minutes, but I think sometimes we act like Nazr's 43 instead of 33. He's in good shape and he could and should play more. We're not as weak at that position as we think.
I think cap space is over-valued by teams like us that can't attract major FAs. Some have suggested that we dump Jax in exchange for Peja's expiring. I'm not sure how that really helps us. In theory, it sounds nice to say we'll turn that expiring into FAs or draft picks, but that presupposes that (a) a FA would actually want to play in a small market like us or (b) that there is a market for our expiring contracts via a trade. Recent history would suggest that neither a nor b is true. The likely result of that strategy is that we'd just go back to being a pathetic team with cap space like we were before the J-Rich trade. Instead of having useless cap space, I'd rather pay a guy who, despite his shortcomings, can help us win games and make the playoffs like Jax.
I don't think there's any reason to be in panic mode. A lot of the teams we thought had passed us by haven't. We're still in this thing.
Demon...I think I'm one of a few that would rather have Nazzy stay (on a better contract) after this season...I view him as a great back-up and solid all-around 5...but last season proved when he is played too much his back acts up...part of age for all of us older guys...I worry the same thing will happen this season...Nazzy (IMO) can play 16-20 and we don't have to worry about health issues...more than that and I start to worry...
[/LEFT]
Just wondering, what do you guys think of Dampier? I was talking to someone with the 'Cats about it, and as far as he knows, the 2.2 mil offer still stands. He hasn't seen much demand anywhere else, so he might reconsider soon...
He does not seem interested in playing for us teej...my guess is he's waiting on the Heat...
ammofan
11-15-2010, 05:13 PM
I want B Diddy back in the 704!
BlockParty
11-15-2010, 06:31 PM
I think Jax is being villified, somewhat unfairly, in the same manner that Boris has been in the past. No question he needs to cut down on the TOs and techs, but he is still a capable scorer, which we desperately need, and we're probably winless without the big shots he's made. We'd be bad on the level of the 09-10 Nets without him.
One thing that is definitely overlooked about Jack this season is his impact on DJ. Jack has been DJ's most vocal supporter starting before training camp and I think it's a safe statement sayind DJ is at or above most everyone's expectations coming into this season. Now that DJ is in 'good standing'...Jack, please stop it with the turnovers!
While I agree that we need to address the C position given Nazr's age and the fact that he's in the final year of his contract, I think he is one of the most underappreciated players in the league, even among Bobcats fans. The other night is a prime example of what he's capable of when he's allowed to play more than 16 minutes. He had some great games last year as well when he got to play. I get that we need to watch his minutes, but I think sometimes we act like Nazr's 43 instead of 33. He's in good shape and he could and should play more. We're not as weak at that position as we think.
Nazr has already mentioned he'd like to stay in Charlotte next year, and realizes he might need to take less money (not just less than he's making now, less than he could make in another city) to make that a reality. That his kids are in school, his wife likes Charlotte, etc. And following Nazr's tweets, I think his statement has some truth behind it, he's a family man that seems to love watching TV shows on DVD a season at a time. Depending on how he plays this season (and how his back holds up) I could see him in similar price range as Dampier.
This from the Jason Fleming chat at Hoopsworld yesterday...not my question but some folk have wanted BDiddy back so I'm posting it...
Jakey in LA:
Will the LAC unload B.Davis contract to Bobcats for 3-4 smaller bad contracts ala C-Web being traded from Sac to Philly.
http://www.hoopsworld.com/images/hw_icon.gif
Jason Fleming:
Davis makes $13 million, so I'm guessing this would have to be Diop ($6.5 million), Carroll ($4.3 million), and Livingston ($3.5 mil), Najera ($3.0 mil), or Henderson ($2.1 mil).
I can't see the Bobcats going for Baron's contract, though he did play some pretty good ball his first go round in that city before they moved to NO. The Clips probably wouldn't do that deal either.
Read more NBA news and insight: http://www.hoopsworld.com/Chat.asp?CHAT_TOPICS_ID=1269#ixzz15T4bPzuo
Scottley Crue
11-16-2010, 12:47 PM
This from the Jason Fleming chat at Hoopsworld yesterday...not my question but some folk have wanted BDiddy back so I'm posting it...
Jakey in LA:
Will the LAC unload B.Davis contract to Bobcats for 3-4 smaller bad contracts ala C-Web being traded from Sac to Philly.
http://www.hoopsworld.com/images/hw_icon.gif
Jason Fleming:
Davis makes $13 million, so I'm guessing this would have to be Diop ($6.5 million), Carroll ($4.3 million), and Livingston ($3.5 mil), Najera ($3.0 mil), or Henderson ($2.1 mil).
I can't see the Bobcats going for Baron's contract, though he did play some pretty good ball his first go round in that city before they moved to NO. The Clips probably wouldn't do that deal either.
Read more NBA news and insight: http://www.hoopsworld.com/Chat.asp?CHAT_TOPICS_ID=1269#ixzz15T4bPzuo
You know, I wonder why this Baron Davis idea keeps floating out there. I know he played here (watched him many, many times) but if ever there were an anti-LB player, I think Baron fits the bill. Add to that his contract and DJ's play...I just can't see that happening. Now if the Clips just can't stand to have Kaman on their roster anymore...
You know, I wonder why this Baron Davis idea keeps floating out there. I know he played here (watched him many, many times) but if ever there were an anti-LB player, I think Baron fits the bill. Add to that his contract and DJ's play...I just can't see that happening. Now if the Clips just can't stand to have Kaman on their roster anymore...
It baffles me also...I just don't see BDiddy as anything close to a good fit...I have to think it is the Jax connection...but who knows...
Eric Pincus has a chat today (he covers the Clip) and I actually posed the question to him...if I get an answer I'll post it...
adam187
11-16-2010, 03:13 PM
This is a realistic trade:
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=2flxbdv
This is a realistic trade:
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=2flxbdv
worst part is there is a legit chance we could have had both. let's just say the magic decided to go with oak or we got the 1st pick and got howard. we wouldn't have improved that much to the next year where we had 5 and 13. let's then go way out on a limb and say we valued cp3 much higher than raymond and even gave him the hometown edge over the tarheel and pulled the trigger on the #3 for #5 and #13 deal. how about a core of cp3/howard/crash?
Dr. Blotter
11-16-2010, 09:18 PM
how about a core of cp3/howard/crash?
fucking dynasty
ZackTB23
11-16-2010, 09:20 PM
What about a 3 team trade with Sacramento and Memphis? Charlotte gets O.J. Mayo, Francisco Garcia, and Jason Thompson. Memphis gets Stephen Jackson, DeMarcus Cousins, and a future 2nd rd pick. Sacramento gets D.J. Augustin, Hasheem Thabeet, Hamed Haddadi, and Darrell Arthur. Then try a follow up trade of Boris Diaw and DeSegana Diop to Cleveland for Antawn Jamison and Anthony Parker. Then we could cut Sherron Collins.
Zack, why would Memphis do that?
ZackTB23
11-16-2010, 09:59 PM
Because the GM is higher than ever when the trade is made?
Because the GM is higher than ever when the trade is made?
True, but even for Chris Wallace that's a bad trade.
Absinthe
11-17-2010, 01:54 AM
I often debate what is more infuriating between the Bobcats fanbase or the team/front office itself. I still don't know.
Young players and draft picks. That's what the Cats need. Not bloated players that have gotten even lazier since signing ridiculous contracts. Win now is not something the front office needs to focus on. In the NBA, win now screws you in the future. Either build a young team that has lots of talent or don't bother. I am constantly appalled at how many fans want to acquire huge contracts just in order to become a seventh or eighth seed. That doesn't cut it. If you look at a vast majority of the NBA teams that are contenders, they're doing so with young players that they either acquired or drafted.
BobCatsFanInTx
11-17-2010, 05:40 AM
I often debate what is more infuriating between the Bobcats fanbase or the team/front office itself. I still don't know.
Young players and draft picks. That's what the Cats need. Not bloated players that have gotten even lazier since signing ridiculous contracts. Win now is not something the front office needs to focus on. In the NBA, win now screws you in the future. Either build a young team that has lots of talent or don't bother. I am constantly appalled at how many fans want to acquire huge contracts just in order to become a seventh or eighth seed. That doesn't cut it. If you look at a vast majority of the NBA teams that are contenders, they're doing so with young players that they either acquired or drafted.Ab I usually agree with your take on how to better have a winner when it comes to building a team but as our team currently is I can't see the need to make any drastic changes. As of now we are getting better play at the starting 1 and 5 positions than we thought we would and all we really need is some minor trades for more depth at those spots imo. We have some solid bench players who in a trade could strengthen our areas of weakness. If coach Brown finds that a necessity he for sure will give guys on the bench more playing time in order to increase their value and make a needed trade. I have faith that we can at least move up to a fifth or sixth seed with a trade or two. If we somehow falter this season after a trade or even without a trade than I can see blowing things up and rebuilding the team. Otherwise I say we need to let this season happen and see where we are after all is said and done imo. We at least need to see where we are by the trade deadline. If we are lottery bound we for sure by that time should consider trading our top players for more young talent and a rebuilding effort.
Ab I usually agree with your take on how to better have a winner when it comes to building a team but as our team currently is I can't see the need to make any drastic changes. As of now we are getting better play at the starting 1 and 5 positions than we thought we would and all we really need is some minor trades for more depth at those spots imo. We have some solid bench players who in a trade could strengthen our areas of weakness. If coach Brown finds that a necessity he for sure will give guys on the bench more playing time in order to increase their value and make a needed trade. I have faith that we can at least move up to a fifth or sixth seed with a trade or two. If we somehow falter this season after a trade or even without a trade than I can see blowing things up and rebuilding the team. Otherwise I say we need to let this season happen and see where we are after all is said and done imo. We at least need to see where we are by the trade deadline. If we are lottery bound we for sure by that time should consider trading our top players for more young talent and a rebuilding effort.
i think you are missing the main point of abs argument. even if all of our players play at their very best all season, we still aren't even close to an ECF let alone championship level team. it isn't a case of improving one position with a player like jamison, kaman, etc. we have no superstar #1 options. it is almost impossible to win a championship this way. detroit's 04 team was kind of like this but you could argue that the DPY is a pretty strong position, as well as 4 of 5 starters on the all-star team works to replace a superstar #1 option. you could also argue they beat a VERY disfunctional lakers team at the time. anyway, his point is, why bother committing long term money/contracts building a team that will never win a championship. i also get from his post that IF trades are made, they need to be made for flexibility, picks, talent and not old/aging overpaid but good players. if no trades present themselves then stay we were are and compete for the 7/8 seed.
Steve kyler having his chat at Hoopsworls...not my question but pertains to our discussion...
jaimeson trocheck in virginia beach, va:
heard CAPN JAX is trade bait in Char. good fit for Cavs? too many small guards in Cleve. oft inj mo, sessions, boobie, & parker just don't do it for me, along with the 3 SF's. Damn! this team is now boring again.
http://www.hoopsworld.com/images/hw_icon.gif
Steve Kyler:
Don't buy into the trading Stephen Jackson stuff... Larry Brown loves him... unless it returned a better all around player, Jax is not the guy being moved or shopped in Charlotte.
Read more NBA news and insight: http://www.hoopsworld.com/chat.asp?status=&CHAT_TOPICS_ID=1276#ixzz15YfdkLP8
spectre
11-17-2010, 12:00 PM
I wonder who he thinks it is we're moving/shopping? Boris? Maybe, but LB sure didn't want to give him up to Toronto...and IMO he's been pretty solid so far, esp. defensively which LB loves. Crash for sure isn't the one...so who?
I wonder who he thinks it is we're moving/shopping? Boris? Maybe, but LB sure didn't want to give him up to Toronto...and IMO he's been pretty solid so far, esp. defensively which LB loves. Crash for sure isn't the one...so who?
Naz (LB's never liked him, just been forced to play him), probably Hendo or UPS (similar players) if they got rid of MC or Gana or even Eddie, and maybe Liv once Dec. 15th passes.
Absinthe
11-17-2010, 01:07 PM
I'd hold onto both DJ and Henderson. What's the point of drafting players that you have no intention of holding onto?
We aren't going to get anything for Diaw that is remotely useful. Might as well hold onto him and at least let his contract come off the books. Jackson is redundant because he plays on the same team as Wallace, but I don't see them moving him.
dvdbumpus
11-17-2010, 08:22 PM
I'd hold onto both DJ and Henderson. What's the point of drafting players that you have no intention of holding onto?
We aren't going to get anything for Diaw that is remotely useful. Might as well hold onto him and at least let his contract come off the books. Jackson is redundant because he plays on the same team as Wallace, but I don't see them moving him.
I'd be happy trading Diaw for some spare parts and some cash off the books. I'd like to trade Diaw to New York for Anthony Randolph. Would be a coup if we pulled that off.
kickazzz2000
11-17-2010, 10:57 PM
Oden out for season. AGAIN
Fred Williamson
11-18-2010, 02:55 AM
I'd be happy trading Diaw for some spare parts and some cash off the books. I'd like to trade Diaw to New York for Anthony Randolph. Would be a coup if we pulled that off.
Why? Randolph is disgustinly bad.
Plowright
11-18-2010, 07:53 AM
I think there should be some trade to get the Bobcats going in the right direction.
Why not make a trade with the Suns, The Suns get: Gerald Wallace. Bobcats get : Earl Clark and Josh Childress. Then trade Josh Childress and Kwame Brown and Stephen Jackson for Camelo Anthony, Anthony would love to play for Jordan.
Some guys just suggested this on the bobcats facebook page. So lets take a guess on how high he was when thinking this up?
I think there should be some trade to get the Bobcats going in the right direction.
Why not make a trade with the Suns, The Suns get: Gerald Wallace. Bobcats get : Earl Clark and Josh Childress. Then trade Josh Childress and Kwame Brown and Stephen Jackson for Camelo Anthony, Anthony would love to play for Jordan.
Some guys just suggested this on the bobcats facebook page. So lets take a guess on how high he was when thinking this up?
What is this I don't even...
Have no clue what he was smoking...
back to the spirit of the trade board:
and yes it is another attempt by me to get you guys to approve of a VC deal.
out: doris, jax, nazr
in: vc, gortat, daniel orton
This answer on any trade(s) that might happen with the Raps and 'Cats...Brotherston covers the Raps and the East and is not bad IMO...
Larry in BR, NC:
Good Morning/afternoon Stephen Do the Raptors remain interested in a trade involving Boris Diaw? Any other potential trades involving the Bobcats and Raptors?
http://www.hoopsworld.com/images/hw_icon.gif
Stephen Brotherston:
Larry,
That trade seems to have died an (un)natural death.
I don't expect we will hear about anything between the Raps and Bobcats again unless its has already been approved by the league - burned once, Colangelo probably doesn't even go back to that situation.
Read more NBA news and insight: http://www.hoopsworld.com/chat.asp?status=&CHAT_TOPICS_ID=1272#ixzz15evW5K9U
Pepperz
11-18-2010, 01:23 PM
http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/70146/20101118/blazers_held_internal_discussions_on_offering_roy_ in_trade_proposals/
I wonder how bad his knee is. They just signed him to a 5 year extension. Maybe its something we can look into.
rsxnova
11-18-2010, 02:15 PM
http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/70146/20101118/blazers_held_internal_discussions_on_offering_roy_ in_trade_proposals/
I wonder how bad his knee is. They just signed him to a 5 year extension. Maybe its something we can look into.
Do not want
DY_nasty
11-18-2010, 02:41 PM
http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/70146/20101118/blazers_held_internal_discussions_on_offering_roy_ in_trade_proposals/
I wonder how bad his knee is. They just signed him to a 5 year extension. Maybe its something we can look into.Roy's knees have been an issue since his early years at Washington. He had huge red flags going into the draft as well...
Pepperz
11-18-2010, 03:07 PM
Roy's knees have been an issue since his early years at Washington. He had huge red flags going into the draft as well...
Very true but its something that we should look into. There are just a few questions that roll thru my mind before I say "yes" or "no"
How bad really are his knees?
Can he recover from it some?
How far will his production drop if this lingers with him for the rest of his career?
Is he the next Tracy where he is out all the time because of it?
What is Portland looking to trade for?
Are they trying to get rid of some contracts in the process?
Do we have the assets to make a trade for him without giving up to much?
These are just some of the questions that I can think of that if they are truly thinking about this, we should look at it from each and every angle before we say one way or another on the trade.
spectre
11-18-2010, 03:16 PM
Roy is tied in at a MAX deal for 3 years after this one and the year after that is partially guaranteed.
I can't imagine anyone trading for him right now even if the cost was just expirings. No way are they going to get assets/salary dumped to boot.
BlockParty
11-18-2010, 04:58 PM
I just found a picture of the "knee doctor" for the Trailblazers....their draft picks make sense now.
http://i.thisislondon.co.uk/i/pix/2006/12/kitsonL_243x245.jpg
DY_nasty
11-18-2010, 05:15 PM
Roy is tied in at a MAX deal for 3 years after this one and the year after that is partially guaranteed.
I can't imagine anyone trading for him right now even if the cost was just expirings. No way are they going to get assets/salary dumped to boot.
The new Kerry Kittles
Black
11-18-2010, 06:00 PM
The Nets want to trade Troy Murphy. Could be a solid backup to Tyrus if we moved Diaw, plus his contract is expiring.
rsxnova
11-18-2010, 11:25 PM
Trade Jackson for Wes Matthews. Kid is a stud.
rsxnova
11-19-2010, 10:00 AM
Murphy is on the block. I wonder if they would do Diaw for Murphy. Troy at the 5 and TT at the 4 bringing Nazzy off the bench.
Troy Murphy will "probably" be traded by the Nets this season, according to a person with knowledge of the situation.
Murphy missed time early in the season because of a back injury and started four games at power forward this month.
However, he recently lost his starting job to Kris Humphries.
When asked about the possibility of a trade, Murphy evaded the question entirely.
"I'm just trying to get better every day," he said. "Just trying to improve every single day. Trying to improve, get better and better, (and) be a better player. Every day."
Read more: http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/70162/20101119/murphy_will_probably_be_traded/#ixzz15jzGUtWY
Murphy is a pretty good all-around player and IMO would help us...but it depends on how the value his expiring or if it is more important to move him...but if it is something like Diaw-out Murphy-in I'm all for that trade...
Plowright
11-19-2010, 12:13 PM
I'm not. Diaw is much more flexible and is a better defensive player + team chemistry would be messed up.
bbh2020
11-19-2010, 12:27 PM
I'm with you Plowman. I say leave this team alone until the trade deadline and see where we are. I think we could get a much better return on our players at the trade deadline than we can now.
This team constructed as is, is so close to being good. We have been in every game down to the end so far. They just need to learn how to close out games and the record will be much different.
ammofan
11-19-2010, 02:41 PM
I would do Diaw for Murphy but I would want to get a center from them or an extra big......
Demon DeaCat
11-19-2010, 03:33 PM
I'm with you Plowman. I say leave this team alone until the trade deadline and see where we are. I think we could get a much better return on our players at the trade deadline than we can now.
This team constructed as is, is so close to being good. We have been in every game down to the end so far. They just need to learn how to close out games and the record will be much different.
With each game I'm starting to feel more and more like this. Murphy is a nice player, but I don't know if the net effect of swapping Boris for him is all that beneficial. He's a better shooter, but doesn't do some of the other things Boris does. Now that we're starting to gel, any trade would really need to make us appreciably better and I don't think this would. If we end up going through the season with what we've got I'm ok with that.
With each game I'm starting to feel more and more like this. Murphy is a nice player, but I don't know if the net effect of swapping Boris for him is all that beneficial. He's a better shooter, but doesn't do some of the other things Boris does. Now that we're starting to gel, any trade would really need to make us appreciably better and I don't think this would. If we end up going through the season with what we've got I'm ok with that.
if it were boris for murphy straight up, i think we have to do for $ reasons. boris is 9 mil again next year and murph comes off the books this year and can be an asset in Feb. murp is playing terribly this year after the back injury and may not improve performance-wise. but this deal almost seems like a no-brainer if you were jordan.
Mostly rehashing old stuff, but from the Weekend Dime
1. The myth
You've heard it a zillion times already this season: No team out there is going to be willing to trade for Melo unless he also commits to a contract extension as part of the transaction.
Consider this your invitation to forget what you've heard.
The theory implies that Anthony will ultimately be able to force his way to the Knicks before the Feb. 24 trading deadline -- if that's indeed where he wants to be, as is widely presumed -- because the other 28 teams wouldn't dare consent to merely renting Melo for the rest of the 2010-11 campaign this close to his free-agent summer, thereby leaving Denver with no choice but to work with New York.
Yet that's just not so.
"Ridiculous," said one Western Conference general manager.
A handful of team executives consulted this week by ESPN.com believe there are more than a few teams in circulation that would be willing to trade for Melo without getting his name on an extension, even though the risk of losing Anthony without compensation in July is precisely why countless league observers believe the Nuggets will eventually have to give in and give him up.
How is that possible? As another GM explains, there are always teams willing to bet that a star like Anthony will like their situation if they can just get him to town.
I know of two such risk-taking teams in Texas alone -- Dallas and Houston -- that would take on Anthony sans extension if their assets proved sufficiently attractive to construct a three-team (or more) deal palatable to Denver. Orlando is also presumed to be another such risk-taker, given the obvious lure of pairing Anthony with Dwight Howard (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2384). And Charlotte, with Melo's buddy Michael Jordan in charge, has been suggested as another willing Melo dice-roller by various front-office sources.
And Charlotte, with Melo's buddy Michael Jordan in charge, has been suggested as another willing Melo dice-roller by various front-office sources.
alright the fun stuff. who/what would have to give and receive for a 1 year rental of melo? wallace for sure, but what else?
alright the fun stuff. who/what would have to give and receive for a 1 year rental of melo? wallace for sure, but what else?
We don't have the picks to send that they want so I doubt we could get it done regardless of players...I'm sure they'd want TT also though...
ammofan
11-20-2010, 07:08 PM
We don't have the picks to send that they want so I doubt we could get it done regardless of players...I'm sure they'd want TT also though...
I bet they would do a Gerald-Boris-Nazr for Melo-Kmart?? deal.....
They get a All Star with gerald, a decent big man, and an expiring 6 mil contract. Plus they are able to dump Kmart
I bet they would do a Gerald-Boris-Nazr for Melo-Kmart?? deal.....
They get a All Star with gerald, a decent big man, and an expiring 6 mil contract. Plus they are able to dump Kmart
they will dump kmart in any deal. they could call nyk today and dump kmart. they are looking pretty foolish for squashing the nets trade that would have given them favors and picks
ammofan
11-20-2010, 08:14 PM
This is what I am thinking would happen: http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=27f8swy
CHA IN: Melo, Martin
DEN IN: Diaw, Wallace, Henderson, Nazr
Bobcats lineup:
DJ
Jack
Melo
Tyrus
Martin
Two things. TT would be hard to trade because I think he's BYC. Second, we do have picks, the only one we owe now is to Chicago in 2012, everything else is ours.
BlockParty
11-20-2010, 10:20 PM
Second, we do have picks, the only one we owe now is to Chicago in 2012, everything else is ours.
Almost correct, and most likely exactly how it will play out. We still owe San Antonio a pick for Theo last year...but, it's top 55 protected in 2016, so unless we are one of the top 5 teams in the league that year, we end up not giving the pick up. A favor from their coach to ours.
http://www.prosportstransactions.com/basketball/DraftTrades/2016.htm
> Spurs (top 55 protected) — Traded Theo Ratliff to Bobcats for 2016 second round pick (protected top 55 in 2016) (?-?) on 2010-02-18
Almost correct, and most likely exactly how it will play out. We still owe San Antonio a pick for Theo last year...but, it's top 55 protected in 2016, so unless we are one of the top 5 teams in the league that year, we end up not giving the pick up. A favor from their coach to ours.
http://www.prosportstransactions.com/basketball/DraftTrades/2016.htm
I know they have a lot of intel but I actually think it's top 58 protected, we only give it up if we're in the Finals.
But yeah, I knew about that, I'm just pessimistic enough not to worry about it :p
ZackTB23
11-21-2010, 01:21 AM
Bobcats send Nazr Mohammed, Boris Diaw, and Matt Carroll to Warriors for Andris Biedrins, Brandan Wright, and Charlie Bell. Bobcats waive Sherron Collins. Then sign Kyle Weaver. Like my idea?
Bobcats send Nazr Mohammed, Boris Diaw, and Matt Carroll to Warriors for Andris Biedrins, Brandan Wright, and Charlie Bell. Bobcats waive Sherron Collins. Then sign Kyle Weaver. Like my idea?
No.
Beans is always hurt and soft down low, B. Wright is a more exacerbated version of Beans, and Bell just sucks.
ZackTB23
11-21-2010, 03:42 AM
Then how about We get Kaman and Evans, Toronto get Nazr and Warren, and Clippers get Diaw and Wright?
ammofan
11-24-2010, 07:54 PM
We need to make a deal asap.....this team looks turrible
ohara831
11-24-2010, 09:34 PM
Crash has not been the same since he made the All Star game. Something is not right, but before the rest of the league figures it out, need to move him for what we can get. And I want Jax gone. He kills me with his TO's and he shoots us out of games. Just blow the damn thing up. Keep DJ, TT and UPS. Everyone else can go.
Edit: Dont fire LB. Cannot afford to pay him and a new Coach. Just let him finish the season and dont resign him.
Crash has not been the same since he made the All Star game. Something is not right, but before the rest of the league figures it out, need to move him for what we can get. And I want Jax gone. He kills me with his TO's and he shoots us out of games. Just blow the damn thing up. Keep DJ, TT and UPS. Everyone else can go.
Edit: Dont fire LB. Cannot afford to pay him and a new Coach. Just let him finish the season and dont resign him.
UPS is not any better than Dom. He's like the 49ers Alex Smith, all the physical talent and smart off the field, but not a morsel of BBIQ.
ohara831
11-24-2010, 10:03 PM
I'm willing to keep UPS though. He is an excellent player off the bench, and a bench is crucial to success. Just look at what is happening in Miami. 3 of the top 10 players, but no one else. They stink almost as bad as we do! Look at them now at 8-7. I bet the folks in South Beach did not expect them to lose 7 games all season!
Crash has not been the same since he made the All Star game. Something is not right, but before the rest of the league figures it out, need to move him for what we can get. And I want Jax gone. He kills me with his TO's and he shoots us out of games. Just blow the damn thing up. Keep DJ, TT and UPS. Everyone else can go.
Edit: Dont fire LB. Cannot afford to pay him and a new Coach. Just let him finish the season and dont resign him.
said this about crash a few weeks ago. after watching last night, i can't tell if he wants out or is at the point where he is sick of watching jax chuck up shit
Scottley Crue
11-24-2010, 11:11 PM
We need to make a deal asap.....this team looks turrible
I would normally say a trade now would be a panic trade, but after watching this mess so far, something needs to be done. And quick. It's quite a bit on the crazy side, but maybe it's time to entertain getting 'Melo, even if it's just for a year. At worst, you've opened up the cap space to make moves, be they trade or signings. At best, he decides he'd like to give it a go and you've got an elite player to work with. Not the best idea, but something HAS to change with this team.
ZackTB23
11-25-2010, 12:37 AM
I know this isn't exciting but what about a 3 way trade where we get Antawn Jamison, Cleveland gets Jason Thompson, Fransisco Garcia, and Gana Diop, and Sacramento gets Boris Diaw and a second rd pick from Cleveland?
ammofan
11-25-2010, 08:59 AM
Yea Scottley I agree. Melo is exactly what we are missing which is a guy who can will the ball into the goal. We have basicallly no shooters or scorers which makes life dificult on the defensive end. We also have way too many TO's and sometimes dont even get a shot up.
I still say that this trade-
CHA OUT- Gerald Wallace, Boris Diaw, Nazr Mohammed, Gerald Henderson
DEN Out- Carmelo Anthony, Kenyon Martin
.....works for both teams. DEN gets a young player with Hendo, an all star with Crash and good 6th man/starter in Diaw....as well as an expiring deal with nazr. The Cats get one of the best players in the league and a big man who can help us out. I would actually ratherhave Nene but I think Mart is more realistic.
I would hate to give up Gerald....HATE to give him up. He's been great for our franchise and his number should be retired here imo, but this team isnt going to the next level with him and this current roster. If we can acquire Melo, a bonafide All Star, we need to make the deal. I actually have faith that MJ could convince him to stay, especially if we make the playoffs and Melo is directly responsible for it.
Plowright
11-25-2010, 09:04 AM
UPS is not any better than Dom. He's like the 49ers Alex Smith, all the physical talent and smart off the field, but not a morsel of BBIQ.
I dont think i agree with this Teej, UPS always finds a bit of space on the floor, i think he finds great little spots that other people dont spot. You may just see him as someone who just gets the ball and jams but i believe it takes BBIQ to get the ball in the write place. IMO
Demon DeaCat
11-25-2010, 12:18 PM
I still don't get all the hate on Jax. He's been our best and most consistent offensive player this year. There have been times where he's the only guy out there making shots to keep us in games. Why would we want him gone? Don't understand the criticism of D. Brown either. In the miniscule amount of time he's been given, he's been productive. He's exactly the kind of tough, "if you try to block my shot I'll break your hand" player we need. I respect Maguire's effort and hustle, but Brown is Maguire with talent. Unless we have a rash of injuries Maguire should never see the floor.
ohara831
11-25-2010, 12:35 PM
I still don't get all the hate on Jax. He's been our best and most consistent offensive player this year. There have been times where he's the only guy out there making shots to keep us in games. Why would we want him gone? Don't understand the criticism of D. Brown either. In the miniscule amount of time he's been given, he's been productive. He's exactly the kind of tough, "if you try to block my shot I'll break your hand" player we need. I respect Maguire's effort and hustle, but Brown is Maguire with talent. Unless we have a rash of injuries Maguire should never see the floor.
Jax has not been our best and most consistent this season so far. I think it is DJ. And the Jax hate is of Jax's own doing. He gripes at the refs when he loses the ball or gets blocked and he does not run back on defense. That leaves his teamates 4-5. he barks at the refs over plays for a while until he gets a Tech called. Why? It just gives the other team a free point. The refs are not going to listen to Jax at all and change the way they call the game. Just shut up and play the game! He is great when he is shooting well. But when he is off, he shoots us out of games. And his TO rate is repulsive. Turnovers are my pet peeve and Jax, Diaw and Crash have been really sloppy with the ball this season and have turned it over at a rate which is completely unacceptable............. and LB is an a$$!
Demon DeaCat
11-25-2010, 12:54 PM
Jax has not been our best and most consistent this season so far. I think it is DJ. !
Jax is averaging over 19 ppg to DJ's 13. He's been in double figures every game this season. There have been several games where DJ has disappeared offensively, his assists notwithstanding. Add to that the fact that, at least as of last night, Jax was leading the NBA is 3s. Don't get me wrong, I love how DJ has progressed this season. He's been great. I also agree that Jax's Ts are an issue, but facts are facts. He has been our best and most consistent offensive player.
WarioVsMooChicken
11-25-2010, 01:11 PM
I don't know about that. if DJ shot as much as Jax, I'm sure they would atleast be even in PPG. Plus, it's not really DJs role to be a top scorer.
Ampsportsduo
11-25-2010, 01:20 PM
I've already stated my desire to stand pat unless the move is made with the future in mind, but one factor that seems to be getting overlooked is depth. This team lacks depth and many of the trades have the team sending out more pieces than are coming back. Even if the team added a legit all-star if the roster is only 3 quality NBA players deep what good does it do?
ohara831
11-25-2010, 03:00 PM
I don't know about that. if DJ shot as much as Jax, I'm sure they would atleast be even in PPG. Plus, it's not really DJs role to be a top scorer.
Exactly. And when you take all the TO's by Jax and the very limited # of TO's by DJ, I think DJ comes out ahead. I know not everyone agrees with me on that and it is fine. I just put DJ ahead of Jax in the category of who is our best player at this time.
Demon DeaCat
11-25-2010, 08:04 PM
Yeah, but we weren't talking about "best player". My statement was that Jax was our best and most consistent "offensive" player, and he clearly is. That can pretty much be determined objectively based on stats and I'm not sure how anyone could disagree with that. "Best player" is more subjective and that depends on a number of factors. I think a pretty strong case could still be made for Jax as far as that distinction is concerned as well, but I still stand by original statement. I fully understand that the role of a PG is not necessarily to be a primary scorer, but someone has to and this year as well as last, that person has been Jax, which is why I don't get why people are so willing to throw him away.
BlockParty
11-25-2010, 11:12 PM
With Larry's limited longevity EVERYWHERE he's ever coached...I think MJ has already gone to the Budweiser School of 'tuning you out'..I think (And HOPE) that we stand pat until Dec 15th, and then only make a move if it improves the team significant beyond this season.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nnjNYrUK8E
BETCATS
11-28-2010, 01:35 PM
Just read an article that Iguodala is being shopped:
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=2e3xv98
new line up:
Hawes/Kwame/Diop
Diaw/Tyrus/Najera
Wallace/UPS/Lord Dom-Dom
Iggy/Henderson/Carrol
DJ/Livingston/Collins
Trades away Jack (if ballwhore isnt lying then we need to chose and i chose Wallace), gives us a center under 30, and helps build a nucleus that will be around for the next 4-5 years (DJ/Iggy/UPS/Tyrus/Hawes would run shit in 2-3 seasons).
ammofan
11-28-2010, 02:01 PM
Just read an article that Iguodala is being shopped:
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=2e3xv98
new line up:
Hawes/Kwame/Diop
Diaw/Tyrus/Najera
Wallace/UPS/Lord Dom-Dom
Iggy/Henderson/Carrol
DJ/Livingston/Collins
Trades away Jack (if ballwhore isnt lying then we need to chose and i chose Wallace), gives us a center under 30, and helps build a nucleus that will be around for the next 4-5 years (DJ/Iggy/UPS/Tyrus/Hawes would run shit in 2-3 seasons).
Yes please!!!
Just read an article that Iguodala is being shopped:
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=2e3xv98
new line up:
Hawes/Kwame/Diop
Diaw/Tyrus/Najera
Wallace/UPS/Lord Dom-Dom
Iggy/Henderson/Carrol
DJ/Livingston/Collins
Trades away Jack (if ballwhore isnt lying then we need to chose and i chose Wallace), gives us a center under 30, and helps build a nucleus that will be around for the next 4-5 years (DJ/Iggy/UPS/Tyrus/Hawes would run shit in 2-3 seasons).
philly laughs us off the phone with this one. iggy is going to get much much more than this. they are going to want cap relief, young prospect to fit with jrue and turner (one who doesn't need the ball in his hands all the time) and/or multiple picks. the only way we are even considered to get iggy is if we take on brand.
how about this
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=2aalxxo
added after dec 15th. we get beno we send livingston to kings. we send a 2014 top 8 protected first to denver, kings send a first to denver.
why for us: get melo and thompson. melo will be a 1yr rental unless he falls in love with jordan. either way he is a jordan guy so i don't think he will screw us. this would have to be done on the understanding that we flip melo either in feb (if it doesn't work out) or at the draft to the nets or knicks as an extended melo. i'm sure it is illegal but what is to stop him from extending with us with a wink wink we will trade you in july? the advantages of the GOAT as owner.
why for denver: get an all star (playing disgruntled, much better in denver with a older team and veteran point guard), landry a great pf on a great contract (trade chip) and expiring dalembert for cap relief next year. plus, 2 picks.
why for kings: get veterans to a very young team. 1 very good starting center and 1 great expiring backup. swap beno for livingston who lets evans slide to the sg position.
our lineup:
dj, jax, melo, TT, thompson
or
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=2ahlrd9
not sure if denver wants to deal billups. but throw in sac top ten protected, 2011 top 3, 2012 unprotected first and i think they take it.
of course we deal jax later.
ok, so you guys are either meh or don't like my melo ideas. how about this with the rockets. the why's. we get a much needed scorer and shooter plus two decent youngs. they get two huge pieces in getting melo from the nuggets.
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=2c6o9o6
cha out:
wallace
nazr
hou out:
martin
jordan hill
jermaine taylor
Black
11-30-2010, 12:34 PM
Kevin Martin is one of the worst defenders in the league. No thanks.
Toocool
11-30-2010, 12:41 PM
With Black on this one. I rather start Hendo at the 2 then trade for a complete defensive liability in Martin. Can you imagine DJ and Martin on the floor together? We would be abused so badly defensively.
adam187
11-30-2010, 03:54 PM
Because giving up over a hundred points to the Bucks shows how committed this team is to defense.
adam187
11-30-2010, 03:57 PM
Also, are you guys still interested in Terence Williams? Probably wouldn't take too much to get a D Leaguer.
I haven't been following, is there something wrong with this guy?
ammofan
11-30-2010, 05:38 PM
Also, are you guys still interested in Terence Williams? Probably wouldn't take too much to get a D Leaguer.
I haven't been following, is there something wrong with this guy?
From what I ahve heard he is just immature......but it probably is no big deal. Avery Johnson is coach of the Nets and he does nothing but cause problems with Players.
K1NGofAKR0N
11-30-2010, 06:38 PM
DEMARCUS COUSINS. perfect. larry could handle him and we rlly rlly rlly need a center. but wed need to trade jack b/c we cant have that many of those kinds of players on one team or itd be a mess
ohara831
11-30-2010, 07:27 PM
DEMARCUS COUSINS. perfect. larry could handle him and we rlly rlly rlly need a center. but wed need to trade jack b/c we cant have that many of those kinds of players on one team or itd be a mess
Dude, to pry Cousins from Sac., you better be thinking of trading Crash. It aint happening. Cousins was an early 1st round pick, is only 20, and is already avg nearly 11 pts and 7 boards. He is going to be a handful to handle for years to come. That big man will be in Sac for a long time.
http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/70319/20101130/kings_kick_cousins_out_of_practice/
But then again, if he is getting kicked out of practice, he may be a trouble maker and they may deal him away. Damn, talk about shocking. I did not see this one happening. Figured he had his act together, but apparently there is an issue here.
Because giving up over a hundred points to the Bucks shows how committed this team is to defense.
thank you! our defense isn't that great. adding martin will make us softer on the defensive end, but he scores 25 pts easy and would spread the floor really well.
Dude, to pry Cousins from Sac., you better be thinking of trading Crash. It aint happening. Cousins was an early 1st round pick, is only 20, and is already avg nearly 11 pts and 7 boards. He is going to be a handful to handle for years to come. That big man will be in Sac for a long time.
http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/70319/20101130/kings_kick_cousins_out_of_practice/
But then again, if he is getting kicked out of practice, he may be a trouble maker and they may deal him away. Damn, talk about shocking. I did not see this one happening. Figured he had his act together, but apparently there is an issue here.
he's the psycho hot freaky sex girl that you just can't quit even though you know a boiled bunny is going to end up on your stove.
Black
11-30-2010, 10:52 PM
Iguodala seems very attainable to me. He seems like he has totally checked out in Philadelphia, but the talent is still there. Would I give up Wallace? No, but I would certainly look into packaging Jackson and his significantly cheaper deal to attain him
Black
11-30-2010, 10:57 PM
Just added up the numbers:
Jackson is owed 27.77 over the next 3 years.
Iggy is owed 56.5 over the next 4 years.
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=27725q2
out: diaw
in: mayo and thabeet
why: we get a young sg
why for them: they need a boris diaw type player to sub at the 4 but also the 3, he will be a nice asset next year too, they get rid of thabeet who at this point is a bad contract for them
next trade: get rid of jax asap. don't let him influence mayo.
ammofan
12-02-2010, 06:33 AM
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=27725q2
out: diaw
in: mayo and thabeet
why: we get a young sg
why for them: they need a boris diaw type player to sub at the 4 but also the 3, he will be a nice asset next year too, they get rid of thabeet who at this point is a bad contract for them
next trade: get rid of jax asap. don't let him influence mayo.
I would do it immediatley....but Im not sure if MEM would!
I would do it immediatley....but Im not sure if MEM would!
i think it would be a tough sell and probably not popular with the fans but it is a good move basketball wise. diaw gives them alot at an effective price of 4.5 mil for this year and next. they don't need mayo and don't have too many expendable contracts to give with him to upgrade, so they are looking at offers that are basically rookie contract for rookie contract and are going to get the short end on all of them. thabeet at this point isn't even a project he is a bust so his 4.5 mil for 2 years is not a good asset it is a liability. plus, boris will be an asset next year at 9 mil he could fetch a nice return.
Toocool
12-02-2010, 08:43 AM
TooCool's secret to successful trading to make the Bobcats better.
Step 1. Trade Crash to someone who is willing to overpay him, as in picks, nice players. If possible, package with others for a decent center.
Step 2. Shift Diaw to the 3, Tyrus to the 4.
Step 3. Fire Larry Brown
Step 4. Lean back on your chair and watch the Bobcats turn it all around.
Step 5. Praise TooCool and rep him for saving the Bobcat's season.
TooCool's secret to successful trading to make the Bobcats better.
Step 1. Trade Crash to someone who is willing to overpay him, as in picks, nice players. If possible, package with others for a decent center.
Step 2. Shift Diaw to the 3, Tyrus to the 4.
Step 3. Fire Larry Brown
Step 4. Lean back on your chair and watch the Bobcats turn it all around.
Step 5. Praise TooCool and rep him for saving the Bobcat's season.
what do you do with jax. he needs to go too.
Pepperz
12-02-2010, 11:54 AM
The cats need to do something. It's getting out of hand.
Scottley Crue
12-02-2010, 12:47 PM
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=27725q2
out: diaw
in: mayo and thabeet
why: we get a young sg
why for them: they need a boris diaw type player to sub at the 4 but also the 3, he will be a nice asset next year too, they get rid of thabeet who at this point is a bad contract for them
next trade: get rid of jax asap. don't let him influence mayo.
It wouldn't hurt my feelings to get Mayo (especially with our offensive challenges), but we already have enough backup centers without Thabeet coming in. Unless his deal can come off the books at the end of the year, I'd look to add something different if possible. Would you think Thabeet is the price to pay for Mayo?
Toocool
12-02-2010, 12:56 PM
what do you do with jax. he needs to go too.
Unfortunately we keep Jack. He's our no.1 option on offense, and we need him to stay. Can't rely on Tyrus in the post or Diaw's inconsistent offense to carry us.
spectre
12-02-2010, 01:17 PM
No way Boris has that kind of value.
I can see MJ lusting after Mayo though.
It wouldn't hurt my feelings to get Mayo (especially with our offensive challenges), but we already have enough backup centers without Thabeet coming in. Unless his deal can come off the books at the end of the year, I'd look to add something different if possible. Would you think Thabeet is the price to pay for Mayo?
i am getting absolutely murdered on realgm right now with this proposal. apparently i am extremely undervaluing mayo. i thought my argument was ok but apparently not the realgm'ers. that board is just nasty. nobody wants to discuss anything, just a bunch of LOL's, you suck, etc
DY_nasty
12-02-2010, 02:23 PM
i am getting absolutely murdered on realgm right now with this proposal. apparently i am extremely undervaluing mayo. i thought my argument was ok but apparently not the realgm'ers. that board is just nasty. nobody wants to discuss anything, just a bunch of LOL's, you suck, etc
You are. :/
I'd love to get Mayo, and he seems like he's on his way out anyways given how the FO has been handling him lately. Just don't think we have anything close to what they'd want in a deal for him.
BlockParty
12-02-2010, 08:10 PM
I'm not sure Charlotte is big enough for the Beagle's beard and Mayo's....and Beagle was here first.
ammofan
12-02-2010, 08:54 PM
I'm not sure Charlotte is big enough for the Beagle's beard and Mayo's....and Beagle was here first.
DJ is mad you are not recognizing his beard!
BlockParty
12-02-2010, 09:54 PM
DJ is mad you are not recognizing his beard!
I think 90% of DJ's beard would disappear with on strong piece of duct tape...so, no...it doesn't count yet. But I like DJ's game, I actually have the least worries/concerns with our PG position at the moment.
Fred Williamson
12-03-2010, 03:28 AM
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=27725q2
out: diaw
in: mayo and thabeet
why: we get a young sg
why for them: they need a boris diaw type player to sub at the 4 but also the 3, he will be a nice asset next year too, they get rid of thabeet who at this point is a bad contract for them
next trade: get rid of jax asap. don't let him influence mayo.
are you freaking serious? Diaw for Mayo and Thabeet? Why in god's name should Memphis even consider this?
Why in god's name should Memphis even consider this?
Chris Wallace.
They wanted to trade us the #2 pick for Okafor before they drafted Thabeet...
are you freaking serious? Diaw for Mayo and Thabeet? Why in god's name should Memphis even consider this?
i know, i know. my big question is to mayo's value considering the following:
he lost his starting spot to rookie sg xavier henry
he isn't playing well at all
he is going to want an extension at 9-10 mil which memphis decided was not a good idea by giving money to conley and gasol over mayo
no one on real gm will even offer a suggestion as to what is fair value i suggested taj gibson and a #1, harden or aldrich and #1, etc. nobody over there wants to reply anything other than "you are stupid, lol, etc". i am done posting to realgm as it is not about discussion but gotcha type arguments.
SCBobcat
12-03-2010, 10:25 AM
Realgm people are stupid. LOL.
DY_nasty
12-03-2010, 11:17 AM
i know, i know. my big question is to mayo's value considering the following:
he lost his starting spot to rookie sg xavier henry
he isn't playing well at all
he is going to want an extension at 9-10 mil which memphis decided was not a good idea by giving money to conley and gasol over mayo
no one on real gm will even offer a suggestion as to what is fair value i suggested taj gibson and a #1, harden or aldrich and #1, etc. nobody over there wants to reply anything other than "you are stupid, lol, etc". i am done posting to realgm as it is not about discussion but gotcha type arguments.
He's playing fine. Dude isn't starting for two reasons.
1) Memphis has a terrible bench and they needed the scoring.
2) They're not going to extend him, so may as well give Henry (who is terrible. like a less athletic jr smith) the minutes.
But if you asked a Bobcats fan if they were cool trading Okafor two years off of his rookie season for Drew Gooden and a 1st, they would've laughed in your face too.
Fact of the matter is that even though he's not putting up his usual numbers, his value is still WAY higher than Diaw.
ammofan
12-03-2010, 11:23 AM
I think 90% of DJ's beard would disappear with on strong piece of duct tape...so, no...it doesn't count yet. But I like DJ's game, I actually have the least worries/concerns with our PG position at the moment.
.....it was a joke bro.....lol
Fact of the matter is that even though he's not putting up his usual numbers, his value is still WAY higher than Diaw.
yeah i absolutely see that now. what teams would offer him 9-10mil a year though. he is a great talent and has good numbers 17.5 pts per game career in 3rd year, but at that much money he should produce more no? is he overpaid at 9-10mil?
ZackTB23
12-03-2010, 01:08 PM
Here's an idea:
Charlotte gets Chris Kaman, Troy Murphy, and O.J. Mayo (http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1072194#)
L.A. Clippers get Boris Diaw, Nazr Mohammed (http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1072194#), Damion James, and 2013 2nd rd pick from New Jersey/Brooklyn
New Jersey/Brooklyn gets Stephen Jackson (http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1072194#), Hasheem Thabeet, and Al-Farouq Aminu
Memphis gets Terrence Williams, Derrick Brown (http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1072194#), and Quinton Ross(Waived)
spectre
12-03-2010, 01:17 PM
Here's an idea:
Charlotte gets Chris Kaman, Troy Murphy, and O.J. Mayo (http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1072194#)
L.A. Clippers get Boris Diaw, Nazr Mohammed (http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1072194#), Damion James, and 2013 2nd rd pick from New Jersey/Brooklyn
New Jersey/Brooklyn gets Stephen Jackson (http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1072194#), Hasheem Thabeet, and Al-Farouq Aminu
Memphis gets Terrence Williams, Derrick Brown (http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1072194#), and Quinton Ross(Waived)
Charlotte out: Jax, Boris, Nazr, UPS
Charlotte in: Kaman, Murphy, Mayo
No offense man...but do you really think our guys have that kind of value? Pretty much everyone besides us gets royally screwed.
Going with our trade history if you want to make a realistic TI you should do pretty much the exact opposite; have the trade screw us instead.
DY_nasty
12-03-2010, 01:38 PM
Charlotte out: Jax, Boris, Nazr, UPS
Charlotte in: Kaman, Murphy, Mayo
No offense man...but do you really think our guys have that kind of value? Pretty much everyone besides us gets royally screwed.
Going with our trade history if you want to make a realistic TI you should do pretty much the exact opposite; have the trade screw us instead.
According to our trade history, I'd be setting my sights a little lower...
Crash for Battier, Lee, and Patterson might be the most realistic 'good' trade we get.
According to our trade history, I'd be setting my sights a little lower...
Understatement of the day.
Let's trade Larry Brown and a box of Jordan's for the rights to Daryl Morey's second- and third-in-command.
BigMike
12-03-2010, 03:15 PM
So watching the Miami games this year i feel that they are in dire need of a huge man to clog up the middle for them to block shots and pass the ball to the scorers.
Any way we can restructure Diops contract and ship him out to them for a 1st round pick and Pittman?
RixFan16
12-04-2010, 01:00 AM
Here's my trade idea:
Charlotte gets - Ben Gordon & Chris Wilcox
Detroit gets - Boris Diaw & Matt Carroll
Why Charlotte does it; Ben gives us another legitimate scoring threat and will allow for more rest for GW and Jack. And Wilcox will give us another big to help TT and Naz out.
Why Detroit does it; They get rid of an under performing Gordon's contract (and basically absorb a smaller one in Carroll) and get a very versatile player in Diaw who can help them out in a couple of different positions.
What do you think?
Here's my trade idea:
Charlotte gets - Ben Gordon & Chris Wilcox
Detroit gets - Boris Diaw & Matt Carroll
Why Charlotte does it; Ben gives us another legitimate scoring threat and will allow for more rest for GW and Jack. And Wilcox will give us another big to help TT and Naz out.
Why Detroit does it; They get rid of an under performing Gordon's contract (and basically absorb a smaller one in Carroll) and get a very versatile player in Diaw who can help them out in a couple of different positions.
What do you think?
Where would Ben play? We've got DJ/Liv set at the point and Jack gets heavy minutes at the 2...
ZackTB23
12-04-2010, 02:37 AM
Plus Hendo comes back in a week.
Fred Williamson
12-04-2010, 07:42 AM
have you seen Gordon's contract?
Plus Hendo comes back in a week.
hendo sucks
Here's my trade idea:
Charlotte gets - Ben Gordon & Chris Wilcox
Detroit gets - Boris Diaw & Matt Carroll
Why Charlotte does it; Ben gives us another legitimate scoring threat and will allow for more rest for GW and Jack. And Wilcox will give us another big to help TT and Naz out.
Why Detroit does it; They get rid of an under performing Gordon's contract (and basically absorb a smaller one in Carroll) and get a very versatile player in Diaw who can help them out in a couple of different positions.
What do you think?
detroit doesn't want to get rid of gordon they want to get rid of rip. they don't want jax (palace brawl). if we wanted gordon it would take crash. then we move jax for whatever he can fetch shorter contract-wise plus a sf.
ZackTB23
12-04-2010, 04:49 PM
He hasn't been given enough playing time yet idiot!
ZackTB23
12-04-2010, 04:50 PM
hendo sucks
Hendo hasn't been given enough time yet.
Name calling isn't necessary.
ohara831
12-04-2010, 10:08 PM
I am not sure if there is any single trade we can make which will help this team - short of Kobe.
ZackTB23
12-04-2010, 10:42 PM
What about Charlotte gets Marcus Thornton, Chris Kaman, and Baron Davis, New Orleans gets Nazr Mohammed and Stephen Jackson, and L.A. Clippers get Emeka Okafor and Boris Diaw?
Hendo hasn't been given enough time yet.
Name calling isn't necessary.
unless playing time gets him an offensive game worth a crap then it won't matter
Toocool
12-05-2010, 01:33 AM
unless playing time gets him an offensive game worth a crap then it won't matter
Watch games mate. He does have an offensive game worth a crap. He can spot up and move around to hit the mid-range jumper, is fine slashing to the basket and is a great defender.
Fred Williamson
12-05-2010, 01:50 AM
blow it up please. Trade everyone for expirings and picks and start all over for god's sake. It can't stand watching this assembly of garbage players anymore.
ammofan
12-05-2010, 08:49 AM
blow it up please. Trade everyone for expirings and picks and start all over for god's sake. It can't stand watching this assembly of garbage players anymore.
I kind of agree actually. Im not one that panics over a few losses especially with a Larry Brown team, but this team sucks. All we did over the summer was get worse. While DJ and Raymond may be equal, we downgraded the bench by dumping Felon. DJ is the starter now and Shaun/Sherron are not equal to DJ skillwise. Then we traded Tyson for Matt and Eduardo who do not play. We gave away our center. Stevie Graham was another loss. He gave us some good depth.
IDK what kind of trades we cold make but trading Jack AND Gerald might not be a terrible move depending on what the market is for them.
Crash for a young center or Crash + Gana for something...Jack for an expiring (Caron Butler?)...Diaw for an expiring...Kwame is playing well enough to net something at the deadline (LA needs a big, ya know). That leaves us with DJ/Hendo/UPS/Tyrus/Naz (expiring)...not bad.
ammofan
12-05-2010, 09:21 AM
Crash for a young center or Crash + Gana for something...Jack for an expiring (Caron Butler?)...Diaw for an expiring...Kwame is playing well enough to net something at the deadline (LA needs a big, ya know). That leaves us with DJ/Hendo/UPS/Tyrus/Naz (expiring)...not bad.
I still dont see whats wrong with trying to net Melo for Crash and Diaw. If not then Iggy? Would ORL be interested in a Jack/Diaw for Vince/filler deal?
Scottley Crue
12-05-2010, 09:33 AM
Crash for a young center or Crash + Gana for something...Jack for an expiring (Caron Butler?)...Diaw for an expiring...Kwame is playing well enough to net something at the deadline (LA needs a big, ya know). That leaves us with DJ/Hendo/UPS/Tyrus/Naz (expiring)...not bad.
Don't know what all it would take, but I do know the Clips need a SF and we need a center. Wonder if Crash + filler for Kaman would work for them, since it looks like Griffin has claimed the low block for that team. (Though I know Kaman can do more than the low block stuff) I could also be inclined to do what Ammofan talks about...renting Melo. If he decides to leave, gets us space at the end of the year or if he decides to stay...hey, franchise player. Either way, it will fulfill my desire of seeing someone in a Bobcats uniform be able to put the ball in the basket a lot.
In any event, something needs to change because this collection of players is not going to work. At all.
I still dont see whats wrong with trying to net Melo for Crash and Diaw. If not then Iggy? Would ORL be interested in a Jack/Diaw for Vince/filler deal?
Iggy is not a franchise player at all. No thanks. If Denver took Crash and Diaw for Melo, then yeah, but they won't. They want 2 1sts and young talent...
The Vince trade is interesting...Jack would be good for that team, especially since he's shooting threes well this year, and if Boston can't make the Finals, I'd love to see Jack take down Kobe. Only downside is MJ would have to pay the training staff for tampons as long as Vince is here.
Don't know what all it would take, but I do know the Clips need a SF and we need a center. Wonder if Crash + filler for Kaman would work for them, since it looks like Griffin has claimed the low block for that team. (Though I know Kaman can do more than the low block stuff) I could also be inclined to do what Ammofan talks about...renting Melo. If he decides to leave, gets us space at the end of the year or if he decides to stay...hey, franchise player. Either way, it will fulfill my desire of seeing someone in a Bobcats uniform be able to put the ball in the basket a lot.
In any event, something needs to change because this collection of players is not going to work. At all.
Kaman would be ok, but if you're going to rebuild, he's not the guy you do it with.
ammofan
12-05-2010, 10:45 AM
Iggy is not a franchise player at all. No thanks. If Denver took Crash and Diaw for Melo, then yeah, but they won't. They want 2 1sts and young talent...
The Vince trade is interesting...Jack would be good for that team, especially since he's shooting threes well this year, and if Boston can't make the Finals, I'd love to see Jack take down Kobe. Only downside is MJ would have to pay the training staff for tampons as long as Vince is here.
Kaman would be ok, but if you're going to rebuild, he's not the guy you do it with.
No Iggy is not a Franchise player.....but he would be a decent starting piece. I would rather deal Gerald for him then some young guys that were not 100% sure of.
ohara831
12-05-2010, 12:15 PM
It is so depressing to be talking about making trades to rebuild rather than making trades to better our chances in the Playoffs. But the reality of the situation is we stink, we are not playing together at all, our Coach is publicly hating on all our players because he wants out, and MJ cannot afford to pay the Luxury Tax. Man, at least Minny has Kevin Love. And OKC was a crappy team a few years ago, and now they are one of the up and coming forces. Maybe we get lucky soon, but dont hold your breath.
Plowright
12-05-2010, 12:53 PM
Cross you hearts and hope for the draft :D
I think we should re start, say bi to jack and GW if we can get some draft picks and young talent in return
DY_nasty
12-05-2010, 03:38 PM
No Iggy is not a Franchise player.....but he would be a decent starting piece. I would rather deal Gerald for him then some young guys that were not 100% sure of.
Iguodala has been in the league for over 5 years now and still hasn't really improved.
ammofan
12-05-2010, 04:00 PM
Iguodala has been in the league for over 5 years now and still hasn't really improved.
But Gerald looks to be headed downhill this year.....I mean I dont WANT Iggy for Gerald, I just suggested it as a possiblity. I would deal Jack for Vince in a millisecond tho. I have wanted Vince here for a while now.
IN OTHER NEWS-----------
AI is close to leaving that team overseas....U think Larry called him up or something? I doubt it but you never know.
Toocool
12-05-2010, 04:01 PM
Iggy has a massively fat contract. Don't want another fat Diop like contract that we can't trade away.
Scottley Crue
12-05-2010, 04:59 PM
Iggy is not a franchise player at all. No thanks. If Denver took Crash and Diaw for Melo, then yeah, but they won't. They want 2 1sts and young talent...
The Vince trade is interesting...Jack would be good for that team, especially since he's shooting threes well this year, and if Boston can't make the Finals, I'd love to see Jack take down Kobe. Only downside is MJ would have to pay the training staff for tampons as long as Vince is here.
Kaman would be ok, but if you're going to rebuild, he's not the guy you do it with.
Kaman's not the guy for a full youth movement, but big guys with his talent are very hard to find. So, if that'd work, I'd take him
ammofan
12-05-2010, 05:40 PM
Iggy has a massively fat contract. Don't want another fat Diop like contract that we can't trade away.
You did not just compare Iguodala to Diop.......Thats a horrible comparison. Someone will trade for Iggy, NO ONE wants Gana
Weezy21
12-05-2010, 05:59 PM
http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1072785
not saying i would be a huge fan of this, but if we were honestly wanting to rebuild, it gives us an extra 1st rounder and $29.5 mill in expirings next year
WFU4LIFE
12-05-2010, 06:54 PM
http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1072785
not saying i would be a huge fan of this, but if we were honestly wanting to rebuild, it gives us an extra 1st rounder and $29.5 mill in expirings next year
I'd do that trade. Gives us a big man, an extra pick, and cap relief. We are AWFUL right now. Time to blow it up, and this trade seems like the best that we could do. It'll never happen, but regardless, a trade like this is what we need to do.
Dcarnys
12-05-2010, 07:20 PM
http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1072785
not saying i would be a huge fan of this, but if we were honestly wanting to rebuild, it gives us an extra 1st rounder and $29.5 mill in expirings next year
It would be terrible, but at this point it looks like rebuilding is the only option if this keeps up. Plus seeing VC in a Bobcats uni would make me a happy guy (the Nolstaga effect)
DY_nasty
12-05-2010, 08:50 PM
http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1072785
not saying i would be a huge fan of this, but if we were honestly wanting to rebuild, it gives us an extra 1st rounder and $29.5 mill in expirings next year
hard, fast, and without any eye contact
Watch games mate. He does have an offensive game worth a crap. He can spot up and move around to hit the mid-range jumper, is fine slashing to the basket and is a great defender.
damn you got me, for the last 4 1/2 years i have been wasting precious hours of life trying to convince you guys that i am a hardcore bobcats fan. i read the national reports and try to fake my way through it enough to slide under your collective radars all this time i have been stealing these posts and sending them to wikileaks. the ruse is up, all thanks to toocool.
in all seriousness, i do watch the games and i also presuppose that everyone bothering to post here does too. just because we don't agree does not mean one of us is not watching the team play. here is why i say that:
none of these are attributes of a good starting sg in the nba:
range limited to 16 feet
inability to consistently beat defenders off the dribble
mediocre dribbling skills
general lack of a need for defenses to account for him on the floor
let's put it this way, if he were on another team and was included in a trade, none of us would be the least bit excited about it.
DY_nasty
12-06-2010, 04:25 PM
damn you got me, for the last 4 1/2 years i have been wasting precious hours of life trying to convince you guys that i am a hardcore bobcats fan. i read the national reports and try to fake my way through it enough to slide under your collective radars all this time i have been stealing these posts and sending them to wikileaks. the ruse is up, all thanks to toocool.
in all seriousness, i do watch the games and i also presuppose that everyone bothering to post here does too. just because we don't agree does not mean one of us is not watching the team play. here is why i say that:
none of these are attributes of a good starting sg in the nba:
range limited to 16 feet
inability to consistently beat defenders off the dribble
mediocre dribbling skills
general lack of a need for defenses to account for him on the floor
let's put it this way, if he were on another team and was included in a trade, none of us would be the least bit excited about it.
Henderson's been able to get by guys off the dribble just fine this season... I don't care if the guy can or can't hit a 3 really. Not like our offense ever involves the 3pt line anyway. not his fault that the entire team operates under 18ft.
If we lost Henderson before LB leaves, I'd be pissed.
don't care if the guy can or can't hit a 3 really. Not like our offense ever involves the 3pt line anyway. not his fault that the entire team operates under 18ft.
this one of the biggest problems with our team. we can't shoot for shit. so everyone packs it in negating gerald's strengths of slashing and our offense just sits around settling for jumpers we can't make. it is his fault because he is one of the shooting guards who can't shoot. i will give him credit for being a decent defender, high energy guy. when he was at duke he was the same way, he just isn't particularly great at anything.
DY_nasty
12-06-2010, 05:09 PM
this one of the biggest problems with our team. we can't shoot for shit. so everyone packs it in negating gerald's strengths of slashing and our offense just sits around settling for jumpers we can't make. it is his fault because he is one of the shooting guards who can't shoot. i will give him credit for being a decent defender, high energy guy. when he was at duke he was the same way, he just isn't particularly great at anything.
The fact that he can't shoot the 3 isn't a problem - the fact that Larry Brown absolutely refuses to acknowledge the 3pt line is the issue.
When's the last time you've seen him run a play for DJ to shoot a 3? Matt Carroll? Diaw? JAX greenlighting himself for 10 threes a game isn't spacing.
The fact that he can't shoot the 3 isn't a problem - the fact that Larry Brown absolutely refuses to acknowledge the 3pt line is the issue.
When's the last time you've seen him run a play for DJ to shoot a 3? Matt Carroll? Diaw? JAX greenlighting himself for 10 threes a game isn't spacing.
i haven't seen him run a play all year period he has been mailing it in since training camp. but, it still doesn't take away the fact that aside from carroll and dj we are a poor shooting team. why make plays to get us open shots we can't make.
DY_nasty
12-06-2010, 05:30 PM
i haven't seen him run a play all year period he has been mailing it in since training camp. but, it still doesn't take away the fact that aside from carroll and dj we are a poor shooting team. why make plays to get us open shots we can't make.
can't make em if you don't take em
what are the protection levels on the 2012 pick that chicago owns?
BlockParty
12-06-2010, 10:38 PM
what are the protection levels on the 2012 pick that chicago owns?
lottery-protected in 2012 (top-14), top-12 protected in 2013, top-10 in 2014, top-8 in 2015, unprotected in 2016
Toocool
12-07-2010, 01:56 AM
damn you got me, for the last 4 1/2 years i have been wasting precious hours of life trying to convince you guys that i am a hardcore bobcats fan. i read the national reports and try to fake my way through it enough to slide under your collective radars all this time i have been stealing these posts and sending them to wikileaks. the ruse is up, all thanks to toocool.
in all seriousness, i do watch the games and i also presuppose that everyone bothering to post here does too. just because we don't agree does not mean one of us is not watching the team play. here is why i say that:
none of these are attributes of a good starting sg in the nba:
range limited to 16 feet
inability to consistently beat defenders off the dribble
mediocre dribbling skills
general lack of a need for defenses to account for him on the floor
let's put it this way, if he were on another team and was included in a trade, none of us would be the least bit excited about it.
No problem mate. I do know everyone's secrets, what can I say.
Seriously, firstly Hendo's range is not limited to 16 feet. Before he was injured, he was hitting close to 3 point range jumpers coming off the screen. Also, he can beat defenders off the dribble, however not as efficiently as say Brandon Roy or something. Finally, there is a general lack of a need for defenses to account for probably 1/2 of our offensively inapt team. It's how our team is constructed, long athletic guys who are defensive minded, and not so much offensive minded.
Yeah, we don't agree. I should probably apologise for that comment, but you know how much I love Hendo =P.
no apology necessary. i guess my main point was, i don't think he will ever be good enough offensively to not include in a trade. on the right team he would be a great defensive/hustle sg. say a team like the bulls if they had melo at sf instead of deng. rose, melo, boozer score and noah and henderson defend/hustle.
ammofan
12-07-2010, 09:34 AM
Heres an idea:
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=23fxzv6
I would do it.....
And if LB wanted to get rid of DJ and Gerald:
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=3y57fsg
I dont like it as much as the fist deal but i think its realistic.
Lineup after 2 deals:
Baron Davis
Vince Carter
Derrick Brown
Tyrus Thomas
Chris Kaman
Not great but not terrible....if we wanted to tear it up
Heres an idea:
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=23fxzv6
I would do it.....
And if LB wanted to get rid of DJ and Gerald:
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=3y57fsg
I dont like it as much as the fist deal but i think its realistic.
Lineup after 2 deals:
Baron Davis
Vince Carter
Derrick Brown
Tyrus Thomas
Chris Kaman
Not great but not terrible....if we wanted to tear it up
first trade: we aren't getting orlando to let go of bass. he is playing really well right now and looks underpaid for what he does. we have a better chance of adding nazr and asking for gortat
second trade: if we give up crash we are not taking baron. he has one of the worst deals in the league based on his performance decline and shitty attitude. make it crash and change for kaman and aminu.
dj
vc
aminu
tt
kaman
ammofan
12-07-2010, 10:56 AM
first trade: we aren't getting orlando to let go of bass. he is playing really well right now and looks underpaid for what he does. we have a better chance of adding nazr and asking for gortat
second trade: if we give up crash we are not taking baron. he has one of the worst deals in the league based on his performance decline and shitty attitude. make it crash and change for kaman and aminu.
dj
vc
aminu
tt
kaman
Okay I mean I agree with that. But I still like Baron...
He has actually been playing well since his return from injury. He is averaging 8 ppg, 6 apg in 25 mpg. Not too terrible but I would understand if we wouldnt want to take him.
DY_nasty
12-07-2010, 01:52 PM
Baron wasn't injured, he was just too fat to play lol
Baron wasn't injured, he was just too fat to play lol
B Davis DNP-obesity
stun704
12-07-2010, 05:12 PM
someone posted this on RealGM whats you guy's feeling on this?
I'll give it a go:
Minnesota receives - Gerald Wallace, Matt Carroll
Charlotte receives - Wesley Johnson, Sebastian Telfair, Wayne Ellington, Utah 1st
Reason - Charlotte replaces Wallace with Johnson, who's underwhelmed but is playing out of position and is the pseudo 5th option for Minnesota right now. They get out of Carroll's contract with Telfair's expiring and Ellington's cheap contract, who'd fill the 3pt shooter off the bench role I'm guessing Carroll was supposed to. They also get a mid to late 1st and $7 million worth of immediate savings.
For Minnesota, they upgrade their defence and overall talent with Wallace while taking on a fair bit of salary to do it.
The next part would have to wait until after January 20th;
Charlotte receives - Marcus Banks, Marcus Thornton, 8.5 mil TPE, 2nd round pick
New Orleans receives - Stephen Jackson, Desagana Diop
Reason - This is a bit more tricky and depends on how the league wants to run the Hornets after they buy them. Jackson would help to solidify their starting lineup and should be able to be kept in line by Paul and West while Diop gives them another defensive big behind Okafor, something that they currently lack. However it's a LOT of money for them to take on.
For Charlotte, they get out from under Diop's contract next year, completely wipe Jackson's off the books and get an intriguing young player in Thornton to add to their core, as well as a 2nd.
Charlotte lineup afterwards;
PG - Augustin, Livingston, Banks, Telfair
SG - Thornton, Henderson, Ellington
SF - Johnson, D.Brown, McQuire
PF - Thomas, Diaw, Najera
C - Mohammed, K.Brown
Collins would have to be cut to get under the roster limit but either of Telfair or Banks could be bought out and Collins re-signed if they wanted. Overall it'd leave them with a young roster, but one with some athletes, a few extra picks and a boatload of capspace. I know it doesn't look like much but it's a starting point.
DY_nasty
12-07-2010, 06:55 PM
I'd do both immediately.
I can see the New Orleans deal happening. Well, it would've been nice but no way does it happen with the team being bought right now. The first deal is a pipe dream. If Minnesota does that deal, Kahn gets ran out of town.
Twan's Kin
12-07-2010, 07:22 PM
Minnesota has had good reason to run Kahn out of town for several years now, and hasn't done it.
Absinthe
12-07-2010, 09:43 PM
Why does this team have such problems developing talent? Adam Morrison was a terrible pick. Gerald Henderson rides the bench. DJ has been repeatedly on the trading block and Larry Brown doesn't trust him. Sean May never had a fire lit under his ass and became a bloated, oft injured mess. Okafor was decent, but was traded away. Felton signed with another team (ended up being the best pick Charlotte has had since the Bobcats became a team). Oh, and get this, Alexis Ajinca. Yes, that guy. He's actually having a good game in Dallas tonight. He has 6 rebounds, 3 points, 2 blocks and 1 steal in 9 minutes.
adam187
12-08-2010, 05:44 PM
What about Andy V from Cleveland? The Cavs are probably looking to break some stuff down and he's signed to a long-term deal. Could he be the banger, defender, rebounder we need down low?
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=37cs59b
Also, after the 15th we'd include McGuire, just so LB couldn't keep playing him.
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