The 2010-11 Trade Discussion Thread

[ziggy]

And we all know that its only a matter of time before LB forces some changes to be made.

Lets see who is the closest with their prediction.

To me, November 20th seems just about right. I'm looking forward to see what you guys predict.

[Absinthe]

I've been saying since pre season that Brown will demand a trade by game 20.

Let's face it, this team is garbage. A lot of people questioned me in the other thread when I said that this team has to make a trade, but hopefully they'll come around. Jax is a blackhole and the team doesn't even play great defense anymore. It's a talent issue more than anything.

[millst2]

the way we are playing i would say between our tenth and twelfth game. Didnt look at the schedule to how long the date is a way. But i think its the week after thanksgiving. So lets say my guess is the 27th of Nov.

[ammofan]

Nov. 23rd..

[Absinthe]

This team is as predictable as clockwork. No imagination on the offensive end and they're starting to sag on defense. When Indiana had that run at the end of the first half I said, "The ship is leaking--they're going to take this game in the second half." I wasn't wrong.

[Proudiddy]

I say sometime this week.

[Chef]

if we make big trades we need to dump LB too. start over completely. LB is a problem too.

[dav7z]

Who do we trade ? We not that bad but JAX isn't buying into distributing the ball at all . DJ 5 of 14 continued to let TJ Ford use him the whole 4th . Hes not fighting through screans well at all. Nazz can't play defence , Diop can,t score.

I love the way TT , UPS, work toghter . Even Hendo looks good with those three.
Im going to say later on just b4 the trade deadline.

[Chef]

in all honesty, what is jax's actual value to other gm's. he wasn't exactly in high demand last year.
1. he'd have to go to a big time contender who needs sg ie magic, bulls, jazz
2. we would not get back fair value, maybe one young or pick + mid level overpaid vet hopefully expiring but not likely

so what are some possibilities....

[Black]

Posted this in the Jax thread for the hell of it:

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=27b5wko

[Proudiddy]

in all honesty, what is jax's actual value to other gm's. he wasn't exactly in high demand last year.
1. he'd have to go to a big time contender who needs sg ie magic, bulls, jazz
2. we would not get back fair value, maybe one young or pick + mid level overpaid vet hopefully expiring but not likely

so what are some possibilities....

A this point, I wouldn't mind trading him to the Cavs or Bulls, as they have been linked to him or reportedly insterested in him over the last year...

From the Bulls:
*I'd take back Deng, as I think this is a very realistic/fair deal. They have similar skill sets, and Deng still has a lot of potential. I know he's had injury problems and it's been speculated that the Bulls have been looking to dump his salary. I'd do it.
*Maybe would do it for Taj Gibson or James Johnson.

The Cavs:
*JJ Hickson or Varejao or Daniel Gibson or Mo Williams or Sessions, any of those guys would work.

[Absinthe]

They can likely pair Jax and Diaw for at least one good player. If they really want to overhaul they could package Augustin or Nazr in the deal too.

This team needs to stay away from shitty contracts like Deng. It's one reason why they're in the mess they're in. Diop, Carrol, etc. Not to mention that Deng is inconsistent and injury prone. A big fat no to him.

[TheDorkLord]

December 2nd

[Proudiddy]

I've also suggested before the season that we should go after Arenas, but his contract is pretty horrible and I think his recent injuries have been worse than Deng's situation...

We need a go-to scorer though. A consistent, starter-level PG and a post scorer with at least some ability on defense.

I also think we should look into a trade with Portland for Fernandez. Don't feel like looking at the salary matchups, but we should give them whatever outside of Crash, Ty, and UPS IMO. Get back Rudy and Patty Mills.

[BlockParty]

December 15th...that is when newly signed free-agents can be made part of a deal (not that the Cats necessarily would want or need to move one of their free-agents, but more players are available to be included at that point).

[Chef]

Posted this in the Jax thread for the hell of it:

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=27b5wko

6ers say no immediately. if they are giving up iggy in a 3rd party trade and taking back long term salary (both boris and jax) they are demanding brand go too. so unless we want brand and iggy it ain't happening.

also, if we did this crash would have to go. iggy and crash are basically the same player.

[Chef]

A this point, I wouldn't mind trading him to the Cavs or Bulls, as they have been linked to him or reportedly insterested in him over the last year...

From the Bulls:
*I'd take back Deng, as I think this is a very realistic/fair deal. They have similar skill sets, and Deng still has a lot of potential. I know he's had injury problems and it's been speculated that the Bulls have been looking to dump his salary. I'd do it.
*Maybe would do it for Taj Gibson or James Johnson.

The Cavs:
*JJ Hickson or Varejao or Daniel Gibson or Mo Williams or Sessions, any of those guys would work.

again, if we take deng, crash would have to go. they probably aren't giving up taj, but might if they think jax added in with rose, noah, deng, boozer wins them the east.

cavs aren't giving up hickson in a million years. varejao is more valuable than jax, unless we want jamison too. gibson is trash. maybe mo but doubt it. sessions with someone else is probably the strongest possibility. maybe their tpe or miami's first.

[Chef]

not to play the hindsight game, but we should have tried to get monta when we still had dampier and he was reportedly very available. now that he is putting up 46 pts and looking like he and curry can get along i don't think we have enough to get him.

[GoBobs]

Trading Jackson would be a step in the right direction. I would try to move him to the Bulls for James Johnson and our pick back.

[spectre]

They'd have to include some salary back to us for that to work.

A trade in the near future does seem inevitable right now, but we are only 2 games into the season.

[ammofan]

Trading Jackson would be a step in the right direction. I would try to move him to the Bulls for James Johnson and our pick back.

I would be pissed if that happened....We need to get another starter and one backup sg or center for Jack if he is dealt.

Would ORL deal Vince? I would do something centered around Jack/Diaw for Vince/Bass

[SWedd523]

With so many different threads being used to talk about "blowing it up" and making moves, let's try and keep the ideas and discussions in one place.

[SWedd523]

We usually have a huge trade within a month or so of the season's start. Since Jack has the most undesirable contract for a core piece, I say we look to move him. The problem is that most teams have either an established SG, or a young SG ready to play. You have to look for a team where they need a veteran and/or scorer.


I think a team like Minnesota could use Jack. They have cap space and have a ton of young guys that need a leader. Therefore: Jack + DJ for Brewer + Flynn + Koufos

[G-Force]

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=2v4un74

I like a trade with Kings.

Bobccats Acquire: Thompson, Casspi, Dalembert
Kings Acquire: Jax, Nazr

Trade Point:
We get a young Big who is athletic and can score in Thompson, Casspi can score as well (when he gets in the groove), and a big expiring who can defense in the paint. Kings is lacking in the SG/SF position so they get immediate help with Jax. Similar to what Swedd mention about the Wolves, Kings has a lot of young guys with no pure leader. Jax along with Nazr can provides that leadership with Championship experience.
Overall, we lose the offenses game that Jax provides, but we gain it on the front with Thompson. Another benefit is that we get to work Hendo in and develop him at the SG, Casspi can also be slot in as SG. The main thing here is that we get cap relieve with Jax gone and Sam 12MM expiring, which we can use for FA. I say it a win-win for both teams.

[Proudiddy]

I like that Kings trade G-Force...

This one is a little more unrealistic b/c I doubt they do this unless we give up another future first rounder and maybe Hendo... But I propose:

Jackson

for

Blazers:
Rudy Fernandez
Andre Miller
Dante Cunningham

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine

[K!NG Wacko]

NO MAN... James Jones? Vince? If we traded Jax and Diaw for Vince and Bass our team would be shit...

Vince isn't a leader like Jackson and Bass is what? A more experienced Derrick Brown at best.

Stop jumping ship on Jackson, 2 games have been played. HE is our LEADER. Diaw has decent numbers. I didn't catch the game last night but i'll be watching tonight.

We need to pull it together and find right floor lineups. Involving Tyrus more and knowing who to have in for 4th. I'll give it another week to analyze DJ.

[Chef]

sac isn't giving up casspi nor do they need a sg. they have garcia. they just traded martin because he was taking touches from evans.

minn doesn't do it. they aren't in contention. no need to take on jax.

blazers have roy. no need for jax.

as i said in other posts i really think he is going to have to go to contender willing to roll the dice that he is the missing piece to a conference or nba finals. after the magic got beat down last night because they couldn't matchup at the 2 or 3 with wade or lebron, i think the take jax. my short list is magic, bulls, utah, maybe spurs so they can move parker.

i like jax and naz to orlando for gortat and jj don't know if they would let gortat go though
to chicago jax and filler for gibson or johnson and cj watson and either brewer or korver
to utah go big salary relief jax and nazr (maybe try diop) for ak47
to spurs jax and nazr for tony parker (not sure if the spurs do this, probably not enough value although jax could be huge for them defensively and from three)

[Chef]

NO MAN... James Jones? Vince? If we traded Jax and Diaw for Vince and Bass our team would be shit...

Vince isn't a leader like Jackson and Bass is what? A more experienced Derrick Brown at best.

Stop jumping ship on Jackson, 2 games have been seen. HE is our LEADER. Diaw has decent numbers. I didn't catch the game last night but i'll be watching tonight.

We need to pull it together and find right floor lineups. Involving Tyrus more and knowing who to have in for 4th. I'll give it another week to analyze DJ.

vince would be for salary relief or feb trade piece only. if he is healthy and in contract year, he could be what we need to compliment dj and crash. but he is a wuss so he would most likely disappoint. i think it isn't a bad move. don't think they include bass though, probably better shot at gortat at this point. vince could really help s rebuild through trade in feb.

[dnbman]

December 2nd

That's what I was thinking.

Pencil me in for 12/3.

[BobCatsFanInTx]

The team is merely 0-2 and though I think Larry Brown will insist on a trade or trades it will happen only because Larry Brown coached teams always start slow. Last season before the trades everybody was pushing the panic button and after the trade it just took that much longer for the team to acquire the needed chemistry to win enough to make the playoffs. I don't think after two games it is time to start panicing and hoping for a trade of a player like Jax who "though he has his faults," was a key contributor to last seasons success. Let's at least give these guys five or six games to see if they can win at least two and if they don't than we can talk about how lousy the team is. I felt from the beginning that the team would start slow since that is usually the case with Larry Brown coached teams. Larry Brown really has no clue what he wants to do with lineups and player rotations and therefore mismanages minutes and the such. It will take at least a month for the Bobcats to start playing well enough to look like a team capable of making the playoffs in my opinion. If the team does make a trade do we just see these new players coming in as the next players going out next season should they not satisfy y'all early next season? I feel that the team will be okay at the 1 but for sure we could add a near all star type talent to the 5. That said, it is too early to say whether a team is great, good or lousy and I think we need to give our team a little more than two games to get a real idea of where they stand.

[SWedd523]

I don't see Chicago as having enough to make the deal worthwhile. It would require Brewer coming to Charlotte and that isn't enough salary. Sure Deng could be put in instead, but we have Crash so there really isn't a need for him. James Johnson isn't that good and Taj would be nice but that would really mean Diaw would have to go somewhere.

[dav7z]

NO MAN... James Jones? Vince? If we traded Jax and Diaw for Vince and Bass our team would be shit...

Vince isn't a leader like Jackson and Bass is what? A more experienced Derrick Brown at best.

Stop jumping ship on Jackson, 2 games have been played. HE is our LEADER. Diaw has decent numbers. I didn't catch the game last night but i'll be watching tonight.

We need to pull it together and find right floor lineups. Involving Tyrus more and knowing who to have in for 4th. I'll give it another week to analyze DJ.

Welcome to Bobcatsplanet, For the record Ammo is stating the facts as far as JAX attitude last night. Its a inturnal problem between JAX . Just a guess Brown . The two is having problems and it showed up on the court last night. Im no where near ready to trade for junk only if a good deal came along.

My personal thoughts is JAX is a scorer and Brown wants him to be a distributor. JAX is what he is . But Brown wants him to change up his game. Thus the truble . Another thing JAX has got to pass our of a dubble team . That might be pissing Brown off. But its no excuse for JAX to act like he did last night .

[TheBeagle]

The team is merely 0-2 and though I think Larry Brown will insist on a trade or trades it will happen only because Larry Brown coached teams always start slow. Last season before the trades everybody was pushing the panic button and after the trade it just took that much longer for the team to acquire the needed chemistry to win enough to make the playoffs. I don't think after two games it is time to start panicing and hoping for a trade of a player like Jax who "though he has his faults," was a key contributor to last seasons success. Let's at least give these guys five or six games to see if they can win at least two and if they don't than we can talk about how lousy the team is. I felt from the beginning that the team would start slow since that is usually the case with Larry Brown coached teams. Larry Brown really has no clue what he wants to do with lineups and player rotations and therefore mismanages minutes and the such. It will take at least a month for the Bobcats to start playing well enough to look like a team capable of making the playoffs in my opinion. If the team does make a trade do we just see these new players coming in as the next players going out next season should they not satisfy y'all early next season? I feel that the team will be okay at the 1 but for sure we could add a near all star type talent to the 5. That said, it is too early to say whether a team is great, good or lousy and I think we need to give our team a little more than two games to get a real idea of where they stand. Good stuff. The biggest problems I see through 2 games have less to do with our personnel than, like you say, player rotations and poor lineups put on the floor at times by Larry, and secondly, defense in general. When we do trap, it's weak, leaving a player open on the perimeter; not communicating well (or at all at times) on switches; and just giving up way too many easy shots, frankly. I'll admit, in terms of giving up easy shots sides, that is a result of poor personnel at the 5 (when Tyrus is playing it, that is), but other times, it's just lazy defense on the perimeter by not closing out on shooters or not forcing them to put it on the floor (ie Danny Granger).

Except for the 5 problem, I think these are problems that will work themselves out, and don't even require a trade, and if so, it's just typical kneejerk Larry.

If something goes down however, I'll go with late November (24thish), and depending on how team is doing, we'll either be buying or selling near trade deadline.

[ammofan]

Vince might not show up every game but he isnt crazy. I love what Jack has done for us in his time but to me, I think he is going to end up killing us. Especially with the attitude. I find it hard to believe that MJ isn't mad at Jack or atleast considering dealing him. MJ would be the last guy who would put up with the whining and non-effort from any players.

And how would Vince and Bass hurt us? I didn't even think about Gortat and if they want to give us him instead of bass thats even better imo. Vince is a good scorer and great perimeter shooter who can also slash with ease still. He's a phenomenol compliment to Gerald. And Gortat would be a decent starting center for us. I have heard alot of analysts say that he would be a starter on most teams in the league. Having him would allow us to bring Nazr off the bench and Diop as the 3rd string.

DJ
Vince
Gerald
Tyrus
Gortat

Thats a stellar lineup and it involves alot of high energy guys who will put up points and play defense. It would be a nice balance.

[ZCar312]

November 17th

[Absinthe]

The big problem is scoring the ball. I think the Bobcats led the league in quarters where a team scored less than 20 points a quarter. They have no go-to player and they don't have a player that can reliably score the ball. Gerald Wallace is a fantastic player, but he made the All Star team due mostly to his defense.

[Chef]

dj = jason terry. he is a 6th man, should be getting 20-25 min a game as a shooting point. we should make a deal to get a starting caliber point and/or big man. try to keep dj, he can be valuable for us.

and absinthe is right on the money.

[ohara831]

How many of us just shook our heads when MJ actually said just a few days before the season that this year's team was better than last year's team? I mean I can see him telling that to people who dont follow the game and will believe it just because MJ said it. But I cannot seriously think anyone who posts on BCP really believed we are a better team. I just wish he would never have said it because it makes me think that either he thinks we are all that stupid, or he really has no clue about the ability of this team as currently composed.

[Absinthe]

Better team than last season? No. Felton is a low tier NBA point guard, but he can run a team and he is serviceable. Chef is right--Augustin is more like a Jason Terry type player. I'm more comfortable with him coming in and shooting rather than having him running a team. Larry Brown has every right to be "nervous" about the point guard position because most NBA teams would not trot Augustin out as their starter.

The first three quarters the team scored 18, 22, and 22. That's unacceptable.

[DY_nasty]

Better team than last season? No. Felton is a low tier NBA point guard, but he can run a team and he is serviceable. Chef is right--Augustin is more like a Jason Terry type player. I'm more comfortable with him coming in and shooting rather than having him running a team. Larry Brown has every right to be "nervous" about the point guard position because most NBA teams would not trot Augustin out as their starter.

The first three quarters the team scored 18, 22, and 22. That's unacceptable.
Okay, but how much of that has been Augustin's fault and how much of has been guys making dumbass decisions AFTER they get the ball? Tyrus is a great finisher but he's got to learn that when he's not in a position to score he needs to kick it out - not try and weave the ball between two defenders. Larry needs to stop acting like Nazr and Diop know what to do with the ball ever. They're never going to do anything but turn the ball over if they get it on the elbow - stop running plays for them to be there. Stephen Jackson You are not Kobe Bryant. Grow up. Use the screen. I know you've been telling the world how much of a leader you are now that you've got your own team all offseason, time to wake up son. Gerald, stop smoking.

And most of all Larry F'n Brown... I really think he's intentionally trying to get fired. Not using timeouts. Watching the team poo itself. Generally not giving a damn. I don't think he wants to be here. Give him his money. Screw him.

DJ with the ball is better than anyone else with it - LB needs to get over himself and let him be the point guard. Not Jackson. Not Diaw. Your lottery pick dude, give him the ball. He's done good with it.

[Proudiddy]

Okay, but how much of that has been Augustin's fault and how much of has been guys making dumbass decisions AFTER they get the ball? Tyrus is a great finisher but he's got to learn that when he's not in a position to score he needs to kick it out - not try and weave the ball between two defenders. Larry needs to stop acting like Nazr and Diop know what to do with the ball ever. They're never going to do anything but turn the ball over if they get it on the elbow - stop running plays for them to be there. Stephen Jackson You are not Kobe Bryant. Grow up. Use the screen. I know you've been telling the world how much of a leader you are now that you've got your own team all offseason, time to wake up son. Gerald, stop smoking.

And most of all Larry F'n Brown... I really think he's intentionally trying to get fired. Not using timeouts. Watching the team poo itself. Generally not giving a damn. I don't think he wants to be here. Give him his money. Screw him.

DJ with the ball is better than anyone else with it - LB needs to get over himself and let him be the point guard. Not Jackson. Not Diaw. Your lottery pick dude, give him the ball. He's done good with it.

I pretty much agree with everything you said, and highlighted your comment about LB b/c I've been wondering about this myself... Rumors were that LB was trying to work his way out of Charlotte this off-season, and MJ basically held him hostage, which explained LB's attitude during pre-draft workouts and all that. He was pissed off that he was being forced to stay here. MJ said yeah he could go to another team if we got compensation back, otherwise, he'd be finishing his contract out here. LB has always been temperamental, and I think MJ pissed him off and now he's just in IDGAF mode.

This team is not making the playoffs as it's currently structured.

I don't think I've ever become more disappointed in a player in one year's time than I have with Jack. I've been a big Jack fan since his Chip run with the Spurs and followed him throughout his career - ATL, INDY, GSW... I was always impressed with his game and thought he was a great player. But, it just seems he's gone downhill since he came here. His value has really dropped in my eyes, and I think he's a victim of J-Rich-itis... They look a lot better on a team with 1 or other 2 stars and are better playing off someone else. I've come to the harsh realization over the last year of watching him that he's not a go-to scorer.

I just really hope we make a move soon or we're gonna be in a hard hole to get out of. Diaw and Nazr suck, we need to move them for something, and as I said, we may as well move Jack while he still has some value before it becomes to obvious that he's over the hill.

[ammofan]

DJ will be fine at pg. He's playing good so far and I want to see how well he can play with more experience as a starter. He hit BIG SHOTS last night. Shots that I honestly wasnt expecting him to make.

[K1NGofAKR0N]

Trade for Greg monroe. Starting lineup dj, henderson, ups, tyros, Monroe. Start over. Hire mike brown.

[DCW]

Im gonna go with Dec 7 n it will be for a Center

[mrtarheel]

No need to blow the team up, we aren't that bad and it's early in the season. Maybe something that allows us to get a center that actually can play and has some sort of offensive awareness. This isn't great but it is a workable trade. http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=2dfdrcj
This gives us a prospect in which may or may not work but gives us Thompson who would excel in our program. This gives us the option of holding on to Diaw come trade deadline for another trade if need be. Diaw has actually been playing decent for us so far and we might just hold onto him.

[Chef]

No need to blow the team up, we aren't that bad and it's early in the season. Maybe something that allows us to get a center that actually can play and has some sort of offensive awareness. This isn't great but it is a workable trade. http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=2dfdrcj
This gives us a prospect in which may or may not work but gives us Thompson who would excel in our program. This gives us the option of holding on to Diaw come trade deadline for another trade if need be. Diaw has actually been playing decent for us so far and we might just hold onto him.

neither memphis nor sac would do this

[Chef]

from realgm:

http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/69861/20101031/jordan_wants_to_sign_larry_brown_to_extension/

Jordan Wants To Sign Larry Brown To Extension

Bobcats owner Michael Jordan says he'd like to sign coach Larry Brown to a contract extension beyond next season.

"I'd love to keep Larry as long as he (wants to be) here," Jordan said. "Larry hasn't chosen to have that conversation, so we haven't."

[mrtarheel]

neither memphis nor sac would do this

Memphis is without Zach Randolph and are rumored to be going to sign Josh Davis who isn't in the NBA. Gasol could backup the 4 while Nazr the 5. They have no backup 5 period. Thabet will be a project anyway remeber him in the DLeague last year while they still had no backup 5. Sac will just need some leadership which Najera can provide and Carroll is added in as a throw in to make it work since they want him out of Memphis anyway. Maybe 2nd round picks or something could be added but they aren't high on Thabet at all. Don't think that is to far fetched of a trade.

[Chef]

Memphis is without Zach Randolph and are rumored to be going to sign Josh Davis who isn't in the NBA. Gasol could backup the 4 while Nazr the 5. They have no backup 5 period. Thabet will be a project anyway remeber him in the DLeague last year while they still had no backup 5. Sac will just need some leadership which Najera can provide and Carroll is added in as a throw in to make it work since they want him out of Memphis anyway. Maybe 2nd round picks or something could be added but they aren't high on Thabet at all. Don't think that is to far fetched of a trade.

even if memphis says yes, sac gives up a player with value and moderate talent for two players who have no real value and are on bad contracts. at the very least you would have to sell them on hendo having talent and including him in the deal.

[mrtarheel]

even if memphis says yes, sac gives up a player with value and moderate talent for two players who have no real value and are on bad contracts. at the very least you would have to sell them on hendo having talent and including him in the deal.

Well if Hendo is include we go after Nick Young from Washington who they don't want as well. Still a nice lineup

DJ, Livingston, Collins
Jax, Young, Carroll
Crash, UPS, McGuire
Diaw, TT,
Thompson, Thabet, Brown, Diop

Thompson can sub in as the 3rd string 4 when need be

[SWedd523]

Just because we make a trade doesn't mean it means we blow the team up. I think Thompson is a very legitimate target with him not getting many minutes in Sacramento. They've been rumored to like DJ for awhile now and I think he'd be a great fit next to Tyreke. I also think that since he's been playing pretty well this season that his trade value is back up.

Beno and Thompson for DJ and Nazr. Small deal that upgrades our team

[Chef]

Just because we make a trade doesn't mean it means we blow the team up. I think Thompson is a very legitimate target with him not getting many minutes in Sacramento. They've been rumored to like DJ for awhile now and I think he'd be a great fit next to Tyreke. I also think that since he's been playing pretty well this season that his trade value is back up.

Beno and Thompson for DJ and Nazr. Small deal that upgrades our team

great idea. both teams say yes, i think. beno is a solid contributer for them but his deal is long. nazr gives them center help which they need and salary relief which is always good. i think beno could be really good here.

we would then need to deal diaw to get thompson minutes and i still think we should deal jax for another center and/or solid sg. if we can turn diaw and jax into a solid sg and reasonable center, i think we are talking then. so i am suggesting major moves but not blowing up the team. we would still have playoff goals just not the same cast as opposed to youngsters, draft picks and expirings.

[DY_nasty]

Beno is absolutely terrible... I'd rather see McInnis start again.

[Fred Williamson]

Beno and Thompson for DJ and Diop. Small deal that upgrades our team

fixed.

10char

[G-Force]

Beno is absolutely terrible... I'd rather see McInnis start again.:facepalm:

You may think that, but his stats so far says otherwise... 14.7 pts, 3.3 rbs, 7 ast, 1.3 TO

[DY_nasty]

:facepalm:

You may think that, but his stats so far says otherwise... 14.7 pts, 3.3 rbs, 7 ast, 1.3 TO
If Beno was any kind of real point guard, Tyreke Evans wouldn't be the one running pnr and doing the majority of the ball handling...

once again, assist #s =/= point guard skill.

[G-Force]

Assists does translate to points. Being able to put up 7ast a game it shows that he knows how to distribute the ball; to the right player at the right time.

Assists = Point Guard Skill, its a metric for PG. Name me a great PG that doesn't put up big numbers in Assists?

[SWedd523]

Diaw for Hinrich

DJ for JT

[DY_nasty]

Assists does translate to points. Being able to put up 7ast a game it shows that he knows how to distribute the ball; to the right player at the right time.

Assists = Point Guard Skill, its a metric for PG. Name me a great PG that doesn't put up big numbers in Assists?
Tony Parker.

The ability to run an offense is not the same as putting up a bunch of assists. In some offenses they can mean that, but its not a universal rule and its often mistaken as some epic truth.

[SWedd523]

If Beno was any kind of real point guard, Tyreke Evans wouldn't be the one running pnr and doing the majority of the ball handling...

once again, assist #s =/= point guard skill.

He does the majority of the ball handling because that's the only way he can be effective. He has no jumper and he's not a set shooter. So he uses his athleticism to beat his man and get buckets.

[DY_nasty]

He does the majority of the ball handling because that's the only way he can be effective. He has no jumper and he's not a set shooter. So he uses his athleticism to beat his man and get buckets.
Last Kings game was a perfect example. Reke isn't a point guard, and with him at the helm they went without a fg for nearly half the 4th quarter and almost let the game slip away. If he had someone to just set him up, those all too familiar scoring droughts wouldn't happen nearly as often. He's an incredibly talented player and good ball hander, but even Brandon Roy needs a point guard.

I'd hoped that Sac would've used their 2nd round pick on a point guard, even a project guy, but Whiteside falling to them wasn't all that bad either I guess.

[G-Force]

Tony Parker.

The ability to run an offense is not the same as putting up a bunch of assists. In some offenses they can mean that, but its not a universal rule and its often mistaken as some epic truth.

First of all, Tony Parker isn't even a top 5 PG in the NBA right now. Secondly, 6.5 Ast is a pretty good number for a PG.

[DY_nasty]

First of all, Tony Parker isn't even a top 5 PG in the NBA right now. Secondly, 6.5 Ast is a pretty good number for a PG.I never said he was top 5, but he's been a top 10 pg for the majority of the last decade. You'd easily find other PGs who win less games and put up substantially more assists than him.

[G-Force]

Of course, assists alone doesn't translate to Wins. Your argument was that assist does not equal to PG Skills, but you have to admit that assists in a primary metric of a PG. Right?

[DY_nasty]

Of course, assists alone doesn't translate to Wins. Your argument was that assist does not equal to PG Skills, but you have to admit that assists in a primary metric of a PG. Right?
Not really, assists are turning into more and more of skewed stat these days anyways.

Stephon Marbury put up a ton of assists - most of those come from dribbling the ball to death then passing at the last second then passing the ball off once he realized that there was no shot for himself. Andre Miller might average significantly fewer, but if hockey assists were a stat, then maybe thing would be different.

My whole point is that saying that someone is a quality point guard just because of their assist numbers is faulty. Much in the same way that you can't call someone a good defender because of their SPG or BPG.

[Absinthe]

Okay, but how much of that has been Augustin's fault and how much of has been guys making dumbass decisions AFTER they get the ball? Tyrus is a great finisher but he's got to learn that when he's not in a position to score he needs to kick it out - not try and weave the ball between two defenders. Larry needs to stop acting like Nazr and Diop know what to do with the ball ever. They're never going to do anything but turn the ball over if they get it on the elbow - stop running plays for them to be there. Stephen Jackson You are not Kobe Bryant. Grow up. Use the screen. I know you've been telling the world how much of a leader you are now that you've got your own team all offseason, time to wake up son. Gerald, stop smoking.

And most of all Larry F'n Brown... I really think he's intentionally trying to get fired. Not using timeouts. Watching the team poo itself. Generally not giving a damn. I don't think he wants to be here. Give him his money. Screw him.

DJ with the ball is better than anyone else with it - LB needs to get over himself and let him be the point guard. Not Jackson. Not Diaw. Your lottery pick dude, give him the ball. He's done good with it.

I don't care whose fault it is, frankly. I'm not into the whole finger pointing and shifting blame games that a lot of fans like to get into. The fact of the matter remains is that Augustin is a step down from Felton. Felton is not a premier PG in the NBA, but he is better than Augustin by a long shot. It's not even close. If they were going to let Felton walk then they should have had a better back-up plan than starting Augustin. You know, the guy that barely played last year and is now expected to come in and run a team. That's the Bobcats in a nutshell.

[SWedd523]

Felton is better by a long shot? When did that happen?

[teej]

Felton is better by a long shot? When did that happen?

When people started watching DJ...

[Demon DeaCat]

They have different strenghts obviously so I guess the "who's better" argument really comes down to what you're looking at. Ray was unquestionably the superior defender and we've missed that, but I also doubt Ray ever has or ever will go 5-6 from 3 in his life. It's kinda nice to have a pg who can do that too.

[Pepperz]

Not really, assists are turning into more and more of skewed stat these days anyways.

Stephon Marbury put up a ton of assists - most of those come from dribbling the ball to death then passing at the last second then passing the ball off once he realized that there was no shot for himself. Andre Miller might average significantly fewer, but if hockey assists were a stat, then maybe thing would be different.

My whole point is that saying that someone is a quality point guard just because of their assist numbers is faulty. Much in the same way that you can't call someone a good defender because of their SPG or BPG.

Stats do tell a lot. If person A is getting 3-4 assist more than person B. That is a good indicator that person A is a better distributor. Person A must be doing something right in order to have a higher assist count per game.

[Ghost Kat]

Stats do tell a lot. If person A is getting 3-4 assist more than person B. That is a good indicator that person A is a better distributor. Person A must be doing something right in order to have a higher assist count per game.

So i guess dumb shots, missed opens shots and more turnovers doesn't count for anything. DJ has always had a better assist to turnover ratio then Felton and shooting %

[DY_nasty]

Stats do tell a lot. If person A is getting 3-4 assist more than person B. That is a good indicator that person A is a better distributor. Person A must be doing something right in order to have a higher assist count per game.
Or it can just mean that they're in an offense where that player has the ball more in a system more catered to their style of play. Assists are not a black and white stat like rebounding (and even that can be deceptive at times - Amare).

[Toocool]

Or it can just mean that they're in an offense where that player has the ball more in a system more catered to their style of play. Assists are not a black and white stat like rebounding (and even that can be deceptive at times - Amare).

Bingo. LB PGs have always had relatively low assists due to their gamestyle. Run and gun teams such as the Warriors or Suns is far easier to get assists because of how easy it is to get assists on a fast break opposed to the half court setting. Superior point guards are able to get assists via a half court setting, but thats superior court vision and passing, and also a lot of it is instinctual passing instead of following the set play.

Nash put up great assist numbers last year because he had Stoudamire to crash and bash his way through the P&R to dunk anything and everything. It's far easier to get assists if you have a PF/C like Stoudamire/Howard who will grab that ball, and dunk it in the hoop. I'm not saying he's not a good passer, he's brilliant but it's easier for him because of the game style.

So many people are talking stats, bull crap. Watch the game, then judge accordingly. Bobcats players normally make the extra pass, passing up a good look (normally from DJ) to give their teammate a better look.

Plus, we have no real great shooters besides Carroll. We miss a lot of shots.

Another example, D. Fisher. He's crap, horrible really. However, his style is to dish it to Kobe and then go and spot up for the open 3 to spread the floor. Thus he has low assist numbers due to the system in which the Lakers play.

[Pepperz]

So by your guys' theory, Felton assist should skyrocket. Faster system plus he has a big man. Compared to the slow, grid it out, make the extra pass, we never had a great under the basket big man. I know his 3 games is a small sample but you guys are giving a system WAY TO MUCH CREDIT. Don't get me wrong, a system can help. Even the players in it can complement each other better but that still doesn't take away from a players skill non the less. A player that has great court vision and passing is going to get assist. People who are great at what they do, will find ways to use what they are great at.

[DY_nasty]

So by your guys' theory, Felton assist should skyrocket. Faster system plus he has a big man. Compared to the slow, grid it out, make the extra pass, we never had a great under the basket big man. I know his 3 games is a small sample but you guys are giving a system WAY TO MUCH CREDIT. Don't get me wrong, a system can help. Even the players in it can complement each other better but that still doesn't take away from a players skill non the less. A player that has great court vision and passing is going to get assist. People who are great at what they do, will find ways to use what they are great at.Not necessarily - Knicks fans thought he'd suddenly become an allstar though... Felton's decision making as a point guard has always been incredibly suspect. We'd know that better than anyone because no one else watches Bobcats. We all know that he had his best year for the Bobcats when LB slowed the game to a snails pace and reduced his role. He'll be transitioning to a system where the point guard will have more responsibility than he's EVER had in Charlotte.

Here's the thing, Felton could rack up more numbers in NY, and it wouldn't even be a surprise. BUT he'll still be making the same mistakes - except at MUCH faster rate. NYK/POR was a perfect example. Decent numbers mixed with 2 cups of dumbassery. He's not the only reason they lost, but he is a big reason. Why? Because the ball was in his hands too much and down the stretch that came back to bite him.

Even though his assists may go up in NYK, he's still the same guy.
More #s does not mean you're necessarily a better player. Especially when talking about assists.

[SWedd523]

I think assist % is more reliable than actual assists

[spectre]

NYK/POR was a perfect example. Decent numbers mixed with 2 cups of dumbassery. He's not the only reason they lost, but he is a big reason. Why? Because the ball was in his hands too much and down the stretch that came back to bite him.

With Portland playing a 2-2-1 zone and swarming Amar'e AND Gallo playing like week old ass who do you think should have had the ball in their hands down the stretch?

I didn't think he did that bad at all the last 5-7 minutes of that game unless you're pointing at Miller's production. If it's his defense then I'd suggest looking at all the excuses (some definitely warranted) being used for DJ right now. Portland's a damn good team on both sides of the ball.

Amar'e not willing to pass and instead trying to drive into 2/3 guys with a dribble (LOL!) seemed to me to be the bigger culprit...that and no one else standing up. They really need that third great player.

I don't think NY is a very good team at all once you get past Amare' & Felton. Gallo was looking good last year but has been struggling mightily...maybe from that injured wrist. Once they get some time in together they might be ok...but unless they can bring in Melo they should definitely end up behind us in the standings (assuming WE will get it together).

[spectre]

I think assist % is more reliable than actual assists

Definitely. Still can't be looked at in a vaccuum though.

[Chef]

has to wait till 12/15

jax and nazr out
kaman and randy foye in

clips may do it to put jax at sf to add a shooter and defender and nazr saves them money next year
davis
gordon
jax
griffin
deandre jordan

we do it for obvious reasons

not sure if they do it though what do you guys think

[DY_nasty]

With Portland playing a 2-2-1 zone and swarming Amar'e AND Gallo playing like week old ass who do you think should have had the ball in their hands down the stretch?

I didn't think he did that bad at all the last 5-7 minutes of that game unless you're pointing at Miller's production. If it's his defense then I'd suggest looking at all the excuses (some definitely warranted) being used for DJ right now. Portland's a damn good team on both sides of the ball.

Amar'e not willing to pass and instead trying to drive into 2/3 guys with a dribble (LOL!) seemed to me to be the bigger culprit...that and no one else standing up. They really need that third great player.

I don't think NY is a very good team at all once you get past Amare' & Felton. Gallo was looking good last year but has been struggling mightily...maybe from that injured wrist. Once they get some time in together they might be ok...but unless they can bring in Melo they should definitely end up behind us in the standings (assuming WE will get it together).I'm going by what Felton was brought in to do and the expectations that many had to go along with that new paycheck. Suddenly being in a different system didn't change Felton's decision making (or finishing ability). He's still the same guy.

Amare for 3 did make me laugh though

[DY_nasty]

San Francisco Chronicle (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2010/11/01/SPE71G4NP9.DTL&feed=rss.warriors)

"We'll be evaluating Brandan throughout the season," Riley said via text message. "We have a good relationship with both Brandan and his agent," who is Jim Tanner. This season marks the Warriors' completion of the fourth year of Wright's rookie-scale contract, so they will be able to submit a one-year qualifying offer this summer and could match any other team's counter. Links to the Charlotte Bobcats, where Wright would be united with fellow University of North Carolina alums Michael Jordan and Larry Brown, remain strong. (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2010/11/01/SPE71G4NP9.DTL&feed=rss.warriors) But no one is certain if Wright is the three-time Mr. Basketball from Tennessee, where he led Brentwood Academy to four consecutive state titles, or the well-dressed player on the NBA bench because of a series of shoulder injuries. via hoopshype.

I really don't like the idea of Wright and Tyrus on the court at the same time for anything other than defense. But the basketball fan in me would like see Diaw go to Golden State. Monta/Curry/Diaw on the floor at once is cheesemode.

[Black]

No thanks.

[Absinthe]

I'm still infuriated that the Nuggets backed out of that trade. They could have dumped Diaw and gotten a starting PG in Devin Harris. It was a great move that would have improved the team.

[SWedd523]

CHA out: Stephen Jackson, Boris Diaw, Nazr Mohammed, Matt Carroll
CHA in: Monta Ellis, Brendan Wright, Chris Kaman
(get rid of a couple bad contracts, swap Jack for Ellis, and bring in a 20/10 big man)

GSW out: Monta Ellis, Bendan Wright
GSW in: Boris Diaw, Nazr Mohammed
(get out of Ellis' contract and bring a versatile big (Boris) and a true Center (Nazr)


LAC out: Chris Kaman
LAC in: Stephen Jackson, Matt Carroll
(Get a guy who can play SF and complete that roster, reunite Jack with Baron and make both of them happy, and open up room for DeAndre)




DJ/Livingston/Collins
Ellis/Hendo
Crash/UPS/McGuire
Tyrus/Wright/Najera
Kaman/Diop/Kwame

[teej]

CHA out: Stephen Jackson, Boris Diaw, Nazr Mohammed, Matt Carroll
CHA in: Monta Ellis, Brendan Wright, Chris Kaman
(get rid of a couple bad contracts, swap Jack for Ellis, and bring in a 20/10 big man)


DJ/Livingston/Collins
Ellis/Hendo
Crash/UPS/McGuire
Tyrus/Wright/Najera
Kaman/Diop/Kwame

Yes please. Ellis would be the ball hog so DJ wouldn't have to be, and Kaman would mesh well with an athletic big like TT.

[DY_nasty]

i never thought i'd be so happy with the thought of a ballhog like ellis lol

[Absinthe]

Kaman is a great player. LA should have traded him long ago but I think they're trying to see how Griffin turns out.

[Chef]

i never thought i'd be so happy with the thought of a ballhog like ellis lol

ellis is like a penny stock. right now he is climbing big time. 46pt opener, double/double in another game, we aren't getting him for jax. we will have to wait until his value and stats drop a bit.

[JamieMcNeill]

DJ/Livingston/Collins
Ellis/Hendo
Crash/UPS/McGuire
Tyrus/Wright/Najera
Kaman/Diop/Kwame

Anyone concerned with the defense (or lack of) implications of that lineup?

[Toocool]

Anyone concerned with the defense (or lack of) implications of that lineup?

Certainly a lack of defense right there, but for once we would actually have a damn good center. DJ+Kaman P&R would be awesome, especially since Kaman has such an awesome Jumper. Ellis can score in bulk and Crash and Tyrus clean the boards and score when they need to. I would be perfectly fine with that lineup, we sacrifice Defense but gain a whole lot of offense and can really run the floor.

I would do that in a heartbeat.

[Pepperz]

Why make a trade like that. There is NO WAY either team would even go for that. Whats next, lets trade Diop, Gerald, and Tyrus for Wade, Bosh, and James? People should start making realistic offers. Just because the contracts match doesn't mean people are going to jump at it.

[ohara831]

I cannot believe we are only 3 games into the season and we have a 10 page thread going on Trades. Wow! Not that is is uncalled for by any means, but what a disappointing start to the season. I have to say that it would be optimistic to see us even matching the 3-9 start to last season which brought on the Jax trade. I think we may have more than 9 losses before we get win #3. That home loss to the Pacers really dampened a lot of hope around here. But a big road victory real soon could turn it around quickly. Question is, where does it happen, if at all?

[adam187]

Eh, I vote no trades unless we are getting significant return or somehow shedding a terrible contract. No sense in shipping Diaw for pennies when he can be somewhat useful here and his own contract becomes that more valuable as an expiring next year. Just play out the season, stay on the lookout for good opportunities (like the one with Denver that fell through), get into the playoffs or get a lottery pick.

[Pepperz]

Eh, I vote no trades unless we are getting significant return or somehow shedding a terrible contract. No sense in shipping Diaw for pennies when he can be somewhat useful here and his own contract becomes that more valuable as an expiring next year. Just play out the season, stay on the lookout for good opportunities (like the one with Denver that fell through), get into the playoffs or get a lottery pick.

Spoken like a true wise man.

[ohara831]

I say we contact the Bulls about trading LB for Tom Thibodeau. LB has just about worn out his welcome. Maybe we can throw in Diaw as a freebie so LB has his most beloved player with him.

[b-nukle]

has to wait till 12/15

jax and nazr out
kaman and randy foye in

clips may do it to put jax at sf to add a shooter and defender and nazr saves them money next year
davis
gordon
jax
griffin
deandre jordan

we do it for obvious reasons

not sure if they do it though what do you guys think

I'd do this if Gerald Henderson became a beast

[millst2]

Could we maybe ship one of our bigs to portland? Today portland center Fabricio Oberto retires after heart palpitations. His leaving leaves the trailblazers short on bigs and a roster of 14.

Thoughts!

[teej]

Kwame + 2nd for Armon Johnson (both are minimum salaries, that's how it works), waive Sherron and sign Earl Barron.

If only.

[millst2]

Yeah doubt we move kwame though, they would prob want nazr. kwame I don't even think can be traded due to him being injured right?

[teej]

Yeah doubt we move kwame though, they would prob want nazr. kwame I don't even think can be traded due to him being injured right?

Actually, he'd be ready by Saturday. But he can't be traded until Dec. 15th because he was a FA signing.

Nazr would be fine to move but they don't have anything in his salary range outside Pryzbilla, Oden and Wes Matthews, none of which make sense.

[BlockParty]

Kwame + 2nd for Armon Johnson (both are minimum salaries, that's how it works), waive Sherron and sign Earl Barron.

If only.

What teej said about the trade deadline, and you can trade a player that is hurt IF (big IF) the other team will waive the physical (ala our trade last year with Raja Bell when we got Capt Jack).

[Chef]

from realgm and espn

Bulls Could Trade Johnson To Bobcats
Nov 05, 2010 9:15 AM EST

The Bulls have explored the possibility of trading forward James Johnson to the Bobcats, sources close to the situation told ESPN.com's Marc Stein.

It remains to be seen if the talks will turn serious.


Read more: http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/69944/20101105/bulls_could_trade_johnson_to_bobcats/#ixzz14PmJtk5C


here is my take on the bulls fan board on real gm

my guess would be jax. you guys desperately need a shooting, sg. jax isn't a knockdown shooter, but does command respect and is a streaky shooter. when he is on, look out. he is also a very good defender. i know the big objection would be his contract. but, as an outsider i think your team is definitely in win now mode. boozer and deng are untradeable for a few years but are both very good players. that means the 3 year gamble on jax could be worth it. i think he makes you guys a major contender. it shouldn't take much to get him. i'm sure the cj watson + brewer + johnson deal would work, but if you guys do want to replace brewer as a back up to jax, we would throw in gerald henderson for our pick back.

if i was charlotte, i would do it and if i were chicago i would do it. i don't think you are going to be able to get a better sg without giving up more critical pieces like taj gibson, etc.

[IshHappens]

ESPN's Marc Stein says it's a possibility:

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/21203/bulls-hold-off-signing-third-pg

a) Would you want him?
b) What would you be willing to give up to get him?

[ziggy]

Who is the possible player that we would have to give up?

[ammofan]

Hendo would be the guy that would make sense for CHI but not for us. This came out of no where.........

[ammofan]

We better not trade jack for him.....that would piss me off. We can do better than that.....

But his dancing is kinda making me think otherwise:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qTVbrGZXVY

[Mustachio]

If we moved him for Diaw i would be unbelievably stoked. I dont know the numbers there or what Chicago is looking for but that would be the best move we could make i think

For one, James kind of reminds me of a stronger Diaw. Granted im working with like maybe a couple instances of seeing him but he has that kind of a slow pace like Diaw but can do work in and out.

Hes younger, has a better contract and would solve the disaster of Diaw starting over TT. Would love to see this unless someone has a more informed opinion on him than mine. Like I said i could be way off only seen him a few instances but Id take it.

[ohara831]

JJ is avg 5 pts and 5 reb in 19 min/game. I would trade Henderson straight up for him. Let him back up TT at PF since he is 6'9 and 245. Then trade Diaw for a much more useful asset.

[Scottley Crue]

It's hard to see how he'd fit in. He'd be another forward in a glut of forwards. My main thought is that I don't think he's better (or that much better) than Derrick Brown, so unless we can dump long-term salary (Najera), then I don't see a reason to do this.

[GoBobs]

Stephen Jackson for James Johnson and our pick back.

[WFU4LIFE]

Being a Wake fan I watched JJ through his two years at Wake and I've tried to watch as many of his games as possible this year. Obviously I would love to have JJ, not just because he's a Demon Deacon, but because he is an extremely talented player. He lost 25 pounds in the offseason and is really working hard. He is very athletic and would be a great fit. I see JJ as ultimately being a Lamar Odom type of player, so obviously to get a player with that much potential, someone whom we SHOULD have drafted when we had the chance, I think we'd have to pull the trigger, and if Diaw or Hendo is what they want, then go ahead and pull the trigger now.

[Fred Williamson]

uhm, what the hell do we need him for? He's not a PF and he sucks.


Stephen Jackson for James Johnson and our pick back.

I'm all for trading Jax, but that is awful

[BlockParty]

http://hoopshype.com/salaries/chicago.htm

$1.7M is JJ's cap number this year. So we'd have to find an apple to match it with, or make it multi-player (and add/subtract a pick or two).

http://hoopshype.com/salaries/charlotte.htm

Maybe they'd be stupid enough to send Taj Gibson and JJ for Najera (and we could waive Collins). Yeah...that's not happening

[Plowright]

Well im afraid diaw for JJ isnt gonna work out salery wise for all you hopers, the bulls must give us something more, which they cant really offer us realisticly so we would have to get a 3rd team involved. I would be interested. They need a SG so maybe they want hendo are matty caroll. I think he would do well here in charlotte. Another player who is still very much learning the game and would benefit under LB

[Toocool]

a) Would be great to get him, he's young and talented. With enough minutes I think he could do very well for us.

b) Cpt Jack for JJ, Brewer and some random scrub.

Reasons why? Get a nice young piece in JJ, get Brewer who is solid, if unspectacular. Why Bulls? They're in their championship competing time. Deng and Boozer won't get traded at all due to their fat contracts. Rose and Noah also are very strong pieces. Bring in Cpt. Jack and you have a team that could easily contend for a championship.

PG: Rose (All-star PG)
SG: Cpt Jack (All-star esque SG)
SF: Luol Deng (Very solid B grader, perhaps borderline A)
PF: Boozer (All-star PF, strong post presence)
C: Joakim Noah (Defensive hustling rebounding machine)

If I were the bulls, I would do that. Captain Jack makes their team look very good...extremely good in fact. Add in that Cpt Jack is a great scorer and a strong defender.

[Plowright]

Sorry TooCool, but i wouldnt, jax for JJ and brewer!? No thanks

[ohara831]

Sorry TooCool, but i wouldnt, jax for JJ and brewer!? No thanks

But if they added that 1st round pick we gave them for TT, I would strongly consider it! It would be very sweet indeed to have essentially taken TT from them for nothing.

[SWedd523]

Merged the James Johnson and Portland threads into the TRADE DISCUSSION thread.

[Fred Williamson]

a) Would be great to get him, he's young and talented. With enough minutes I think he could do very well for us.

b) Cpt Jack for JJ, Brewer and some random scrub.

Reasons why? Get a nice young piece in JJ, get Brewer who is solid, if unspectacular. Why Bulls? They're in their championship competing time. Deng and Boozer won't get traded at all due to their fat contracts. Rose and Noah also are very strong pieces. Bring in Cpt. Jack and you have a team that could easily contend for a championship.

PG: Rose (All-star PG)
SG: Cpt Jack (All-star esque SG)
SF: Luol Deng (Very solid B grader, perhaps borderline A)
PF: Boozer (All-star PF, strong post presence)
C: Joakim Noah (Defensive hustling rebounding machine)

If I were the bulls, I would do that. Captain Jack makes their team look very good...extremely good in fact. Add in that Cpt Jack is a great scorer and a strong defender.

First of all, Johnson has D-league written all over him. He doesn't have potential and we're already stacked at SF. Secondly, Brewer is an athletic wing who can't shoot to save his life, and is badly injured at the moment. Therefore, this scenario just does not make any sense. And as I said, I'm all for trading Jax, but come on, we can get a better deal than that.

[SWedd523]

Also, I would support a deal with Jack and Najera to Chicago for Brewer, Johnson, and our first back. (assuming a healthy Ronnie)

[Pepperz]

I would really consider trading Capt Jax for JJ, Brewer, CJ Wats and our pick back.

or if somebody comes up with a way to shed contracts or maximize the trade value of what we got now.

[Chef]

apparently brewer is on one leg right now. but, this wreaks of a jax deal. as i have already said jax should be a perfect target for the bulls to gear up a championship run and they know it. he won't cost them major pieces and gives them the best top to bottom starting 5 in the league. apparently their fans at realgm really like hendo too. i would jax and hendo for jj, brewer, cj watson, our pick and theirs. and i think they would go for it. hendo = our pick and jackson = jj, brewer, cj watson and a very late 1st

[Black]

Watson and Brewer can't be traded until December 15, so an imminent deal won't involve them. If we are trading Jackson, we would need to get a third team involved.

[pegsue123]

Why would we do this?

http://basketball.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/69944/20101105/bulls_could_trade_johnson_to_bobcats/

[DY_nasty]

Why would we do this?

http://basketball.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/69944/20101105/bulls_could_trade_johnson_to_bobcats/To rebuild like we should. A team with a core of Jackson and Wallace was never going all that far in the first place. LB won't be sticking around to see it through either, may as well retool now. Hell, maybe MJ will change the team name too lol

[Black]

I'm fine with retooling, but we can do better than what the Bulls could offer for Jackson.

[WFU4LIFE]

Seriously, I don't get why people are asking why we should do this. Why? Because we get a good young piece, and if it's Jackson we trade, then we will no doubt get a pick back. The team, as it is, is pretty good, but pretty good is not going to get you anywhere in the east, and the way our roster is set up, we are not good enough to make a run in the playiffs, and not bad enough to get a high lottery pick. It's time to start rebuilding through acquiring young pieces and draft picks. OKC was able to rebuild that way, so I see no reason why the Bobcats shouldn't follow that same path.

[DY_nasty]

Seriously, I don't get why people are asking why we should do this. Why? Because we get a good young piece, and if it's Jackson we trade, then we will no doubt get a pick back. The team, as it is, is pretty good, but pretty good is not going to get you anywhere in the east, and the way our roster is set up, we are not good enough to make a run in the playiffs, and not bad enough to get a high lottery pick. It's time to start rebuilding through acquiring young pieces and draft picks. OKC was able to rebuild that way, so I see no reason why the Bobcats shouldn't follow that same path.Nothing worse than being a middle of the road team.

Johnson is still a young player, but I'd definitely take him over Derrick Brown. As long as we don't give up any young guys to get him, I'm all for it.

[Demon DeaCat]

As a wake guy myself, I really want to see James succeed, but I'm not sold on him myself. He's got the talent, but I'm not sure he has the work ethic to become a really good player in this league. If we did this deal, it would certainly be more about ridding ourselves of Jax's contract than about acquiring Johnson, and if we got our pick back in the process that just might make it worth it. The thing that puzzles me it why we would do it now. This trade would effectively end our chances of making the playoffs, and it would destroy all the goodwill that MJ has created since buying the team if we pulled the plug on the season this early. I could see us doing it at the deadline if we were already out of contention, but it would be tough to swallow now.

[ohara831]

I like Jax, but I do not think that trading him would necessarily mean we are throwing in the towel on this season. JJ could most likely play PF, so he would back up TT. I think Diaw would be the next one out in an effort to bring in a SG which LB and MJ want here. Could be wrong, but it would make sense.

[rsxnova]

Could this move be a prelude to Harrison Barnes? If only that would happen...

[Scottley Crue]

This trade would effectively end our chances of making the playoffs, and it would destroy all the goodwill that MJ has created since buying the team if we pulled the plug on the season this early. I could see us doing it at the deadline if we were already out of contention, but it would be tough to swallow now.

Along with the missing playoffs/destroying goodwill, from just a basketball standpoint...we struggle to score now. How bad would it be if Jax wasn't here? I'm not opposed to trading anyone if improves the team, but the ideas being thrown out for Jax/Chicago don't do that in my eyes. On top of that, Johnson duplicates so much of what we already have. If they'd take a bad contract off our hands, sure. Otherwise, I'd much rather roll with UPS and give up nothing.

[DY_nasty]

I like Jax, but I do not think that trading him would necessarily mean we are throwing in the towel on this season. JJ could most likely play PF, so he would back up TT. I think Diaw would be the next one out in an effort to bring in a SG which LB and MJ want here. Could be wrong, but it would make sense.
And what SG are you getting with Boris Diaw?

If blowing the team up is a discussion thats going on in the front office, then I say full speed ahead. No point in dragging feet. Maybe they'll go ahead and change the team name next season and start a whole 'resurgence/youth' theme or something. You don't necessarily need to win in order to get people excited. Also, MJ has done a great job in repairing most of the burnt bridges that Bob Johnson left behind.

[spectre]

To rebuild like we should. A team with a core of Jackson and Wallace was never going all that far in the first place. LB won't be sticking around to see it through either, may as well retool now. Hell, maybe MJ will change the team name too lol

But what would be the deal tho? They don't have any contracts to match Jax they'd move, so they'd have to combine players. Thing is we're already at 15 so we can't take back a player, but I guess we could waive Collins (he's unguaranteed right?). Ronnie Brewer & Johnson for Jax? Would work after December 15th since Chicago has about 1.5 left before the cap.

Has his value risen so much that we could also get our pick back too?

Hell no it hasn't.

No deal. I know everyone's down on Jax, but I doubt seriously if LB isn't going to finish out the season...so as long as he's here we need to give him something to compete with IMO. I'm already concerned with the depth at 2 and I really don't want to add another non shooter to the starting squad.

Not to mention we'd be giving Chicago the final piece for a conceivably deep run into the playoffs. I'm not comfortable with that at all either.

[spectre]

And what SG are you getting with Boris Diaw?

If blowing the team up is a discussion thats going on in the front office, then I say full speed ahead.

I'd bet about anything that it isn't. I think it'd kill Jordan to go thru a 3 year rebuild...both mentally and probably financially.

[spectre]

Ahh, it seems the Bulls' fans think it could be a Hendo/Johnson swap.

Eh. As I said above we're already weak at the 2, but I'm not in love with Hendo either. Guess we could swap those two and then sign someone like Flip?

Wouldn't be so bad.

[Chef]

this doesn't have to be an all or nothing thing. we can certainly move jax and get some pieces back that doesn't signal salary dump or 3 year bottom of the barrel rebuild. is johnson the guy? not at all. does a starting 5 of dj, brewer, crash, tt, nazr make us that much worse off than before. not really considering with jax we are having problems. if cj watson comes in that makes a player like livingston or dj available to combo out with nazr or diaw. could we still look to move wallace, sure. let's just not jump to the conclusion that starting over makes us the timberwolves. then again, i think we should be trying to accumulate as many 2012 picks as possible. if i were jordan i would be down at unc telling barnes to wait until after the lockout to jump. if the majority of the players did that rivers, irvine, barnes all in the same class, could rival a 2003 draft class.

[ohara831]

I would love a Hendo - Johnson swap. And anything involving Jax with Chicago, would HAVE to include us getting back the
1st we gave them for TT. It then becomes more agreeable. Not great, but more agreeable.

[Absinthe]

In all due honesty, the team really needs to rebuilt. I don't think any fan wants to pull for a team that is a perennial first round exit. Hell, Charlotte might not even make the playoffs this year considering how they've looked so far. I would try to move up in the draft, acquire more picks, and trade away/shed huge contracts. That's what Oklahoma and Portland did and look at where they're at.

[Chef]

Ahh, it seems the Bulls' fans think it could be a Hendo/Johnson swap.

Eh. As I said above we're already weak at the 2, but I'm not in love with Hendo either. Guess we could swap those two and then sign someone like Flip?

Wouldn't be so bad.

this makes the most sense since the "news" came out this early. didn't realize a jax deal would have to wait until 12/15. we should still be trying to figure out how to get our 2012 pick back though.

[spankymoore7]

Diaw for Barbosa? Reunite Diaw with Colangelo, give Ed Davis time to settle in and the kid from USC gets to play. Couldnt happen for a while but I would be ok with it(16 on roster, have to move one to a third team or release a non guaranteed contract)

Augustine/Livingston/Watson
Barbosa/Brewer/Henderson/Carroll
Wallace/Brown/McGuire
Thomas/Johnson/Najera
Mohammad/Diop/Brown

Small step back this year, but much better going forward. Maybe trade someone for a future pick: get us to 15 and asset for future. Thoughts?

[spectre]

Thing about Jax is he's drawing double teams, but he's struggling more times than not right now. From a fan post on RoF:


However, because the Bobcats lack three-point shooters, Jackson was frequently doubled with New Jersey daring Charlotte’s supporting cast to beat them from the outside.

In the seven times Jackson posted up in the fourth quarter:


A pass out of a double team led to Boris Diaw making a bad pass to a cutting Gerald Wallace.
Another pass out of a double gave the Bobcats no advantage.
A pass to a cutting Tyrus Thomas (http://www.sbnation.com/nba/players/21802/tyrus-thomas) led to a layup.
Another double and kick out saw Boris Diaw connecting on a triple.
A post up against Anthony Morrow (http://www.sbnation.com/nba/players/50286/anthony-morrow) did not draw a double. Jackson missed the layup.
Another post up saw Jackson lurching into a double team, where he was bailed out by a foul. He hit two free throws.
A final post up saw Devin Harris (http://www.sbnation.com/nba/players/21719/devin-harris) strip the ball out of bounds. Charlotte retained possession.



Does any of the guys mentioned in a swap for Jax warrant double teaming or even play in the post?

Don't want to make this about Jax...but give him some time. He started out the season with a twisted ankle and on top of that they're having to work out the ball sharing/distributing thing. IMO with the way DJ is playing Jax will eventually be able to go back to the role he had last year and will most likely start playing better.

[DY_nasty]

But what would be the deal tho? They don't have any contracts to match Jax they'd move, so they'd have to combine players. Thing is we're already at 15 so we can't take back a player, but I guess we could waive Collins (he's unguaranteed right?). Ronnie Brewer & Johnson for Jax? Would work after December 15th since Chicago has about 1.5 left before the cap.

Has his value risen so much that we could also get our pick back too?

Hell no it hasn't.

No deal. I know everyone's down on Jax, but I doubt seriously if LB isn't going to finish out the season...so as long as he's here we need to give him something to compete with IMO. I'm already concerned with the depth at 2 and I really don't want to add another non shooter to the starting squad.

Not to mention we'd be giving Chicago the final piece for a conceivably deep run into the playoffs. I'm not comfortable with that at all either.
Warriors fan were right about Jackson, dude was in the process of wearing out his welcome towards the end of last year and now he's showing all the signs of being an issue in the future. We may be down on him, but a team like Chicago has to be itching for a guy like Jackson - especially after the void that Salmons left. They need a SG bad and Jackson is the only one thats good enough to help and easy enough to get.

Honestly, I think that if Jordan was going to rebuild, now would be the time to do it. He'd get it out the way now and wouldn't have to deal with a fan base that will inevitably be pissed off after watching below-average play for the next 3 years. We'd be a little worse than the Pacers of the last decade, and eventually that protected pick that belongs to the Bulls won't be so protected anymore. Larry Brown won't be sticking around past his contract (that realgm article was a poorly written pos, they quoted something that was said before the preseason even started). I know Jordan doesn't have the deepest pockets in the world, but in this case it should make him more sensible. Cut losses now, invest in the future, build a real foundation this time instead of a patchwork playoff team.

[DY_nasty]

Thing about Jax is he's drawing double teams, but he's struggling more times than not right now. From a fan post on RoF:


Does any of the guys mentioned in a swap for Jax warrant double teaming or even play in the post?

Don't want to make this about Jax...but give him some time. He started out the season with a twisted ankle and on top of that they're having to work out the ball sharing/distributing thing. IMO with the way DJ is playing Jax will eventually be able to go back to the role he had last year and will most likely start playing better.
I understand all of that, but we all watched the games. But most of the time Jax is just dribbling into two defenders, he's not getting doubled...

Also in that Nets game, the only reason it was even close was because Jackson was playing like a dope. We gave up two 10 points leads in that game. Its nice that he sort of turned it around in the 4th, but over the course of the whole game he was absolutely trash on both ends of the court.

[spectre]

There's more to the GSW story. Both he and Ellis was promised things and then after he signed the extension they did the opposite. Still tho I know Jax can certainly have issues.

I know Jax has been struggling. I think that has a lot to do with the extra things LB has put on him due to a perceived weakness at the PG. IMO DJ's play is looking to change minds.

I just don't see MJ rebuilding right now. It might seem a good time (I would disagree; so long as LB is here I don't think it's time), but he just bought the team. From everything I'm hearing they still fill it's imperative to win in order to stop the red ink. On top of that Jordan is the most competitive guy in sports. While it's possible to make the playoffs with this team we really are hurting and are FAR away from getting near to an OKC model.

If it is Jax it'll have to wait til Dec. 15 anyway assuming it's just between us and the Bulls. I'd bet more tho that they're thinking about a Hendo/Johnson swap. MJ was high on Johnson anyway and I'm pretty sure we discussed swapping picks with Chicago that year as both teams were high on the others' picks.

[teej]

Does no one remember the 2009 Draft? MJ was really high on James, but didn't want to reach at 12 for him, so he took Hendo. MJ wanted to trade Hendo (12) for JJ and Taj Gibson (16 & 26) but for whatever reason it didn't happen. This is hardly a shock.

Oh, and to those of you who think this is a Jack trade: the team didn't spend God knows how much on Jack's signage around the arena and in the community to trade him 5 games into the season. Get real.

[spectre]

Does no one remember the 2009 Draft? MJ was really high on James, but didn't want to reach at 12 for him, so he took Hendo. MJ wanted to trade Hendo (12) for JJ and Taj Gibson (16 & 26) but for whatever reason it didn't happen. This is hardly a shock.

Oh, and to those of you who think this is a Jack trade: the team didn't spend God knows how much on Jack's signage around the arena and in the community to trade him 5 games into the season. Get real.

Yup...beat you by 3 minutes. :biggrin:

They sold themselves on Williams and figured Hendo wouldn't be that bad a consolation prize. Remember we had no SG at that point.

[teej]

Yup...beat you by 3 minutes. :biggrin:

They sold themselves on Williams and figured Hendo wouldn't be that bad a consolation prize. Remember we had no SG at that point.

Oh I remember it well. I remember Swedd begging someone to fuck him in his ass when the Nets grabbed T-Will.

Hendo for JJ would be good, give Carroll minutes and give us another reason to trade Boris.

Maybe that's why Hendo's gotten so much (relative) PT?

[BETCATS]

A lot of people are showing their true colors right now. SMH at all the Jackson hate.
The same people that were so happy that Jackson slapped our asses into the playoffs last year are now jumping ship and swimming to the enemy submarine saying "he has worn out his welcome".

Jackson is frustrated, but at least he gives a shit. He is only mad because he cares; and who here and say that Jackson/the team should not be mad right now? I would rather have 1000 angry Jackson then the 1 apathetic Boris Diaw we had to put up with all last season.

We are a young team and patience is virtue. Stop trying to turn your back onto a big reason we had a winning team last year and stick it out. The weather isnt fair right now, be a real fan instead of jumping up and down screaming "rebuild". This group still has a lot of potential left in it and Jackson is one of the two leaders.

[DY_nasty]

A lot of people are showing their true colors right now. SMH at all the Jackson hate.
The same people that were so happy that Jackson slapped our asses into the playoffs last year are now jumping ship and swimming to the enemy submarine saying "he has worn out his welcome".

Jackson is frustrated, but at least he gives a shit. He is only mad because he cares; and who here and say that Jackson/the team should not be mad right now? I would rather have 1000 angry Jackson then the 1 apathetic Boris Diaw we had to put up with all last season.

We are a young team and patience is virtue. Stop trying to turn your back onto a big reason we had a winning team last year and stick it out. The weather isnt fair right now, be a real fan instead of jumping up and down screaming "rebuild". This group still has a lot of potential left in it and Jackson is one of the two leaders.
Its not just 1 or 2 people - Jackson has carried this act throughout his NBA career. Its going to happen... if someone wants him, I say deal him now before things blow up with him like they inevitably do. Not like this team was going to win anything anyway. It wouldn't the first time a 'team leader' got dealt either.

[CatNation]

I don't like having one topic for all trade discussions. Its a pain going back to find where a discussion starts. Much easier to just have a topic for every rumor. just my opinion

[teej]

How about a trade sub-board?

[SWedd523]

I don't like having one topic for all trade discussions. Its a pain going back to find where a discussion starts. Much easier to just have a topic for every rumor. just my opinion
Maybe you should visit the forums more often then ;)






Not being an ass, just trying to get traffic!

[CatNation]

I dunno, I thought it was fine just having topics on the gen board. Its not like theres an overabundance of topics or anything.

[CatNation]

Maybe you should visit the forums more often then ;)






Not being an ass, just trying to get traffic!

lol I'm on here so much its almost embarrassing. If theres a background stat for hours surfing the boards you'd see haha

[Chef]

I'd bet about anything that it isn't. I think it'd kill Jordan to go thru a 3 year rebuild...both mentally and probably financially.

just thought of this and i am sure jordan and all of the owners have too. when the nba lockout happens next year depending on the length (and it looks long) fans (at least i go to the games for the halftime show fans) won't be back next year and maybe not really for the next two. small market teams without a big time superstar like charlotte are going to struggle for full houses anyway. in a way, this could be the perfect 3 year stretch to start over. sell off your major pieces for somewhat fair value, acquire a bunch of picks in the next few drafts, have a buttload of cap space and hit your stride just as the league is rebounding.

[Mustachio]

All this "we can't rebuild" stuff is killing me. Not one single solitary itsy bitsy part of the recent good will and sponsor increase we have seen has come from the playoffs. Just set that straight now. Any and all good will that has been built up has come from Jordan. If you think someone was on the fence about the Bobcats and they made up their mind once we got our asses kicked in the first round.... you're wrong. Jordan is a huge icon and brought tons of good will and respect to the franchise simply by buying the team. So with that in consideration, a rebuild wouldnt hurt at all. Losing Jack or Crash to most people outside of diehard fans would mean nothing. Jordan isnt going to lose cool points from someone who recently hooked up with the Bobcats because he trades Steven Jackson away.

However, Jordan doesnt want to "rebuild" . No one does. And i dont think we have to. I honestly dont even know if we can call roster moves a rebuild at this point. in order to "rebuild" you would have had to have something built before hand. And a lousy playoff sweep is hardly a good foundation. I think its possible to "reload". I think we can match last seasons success AND gain some positive pieces for the future. I mean for god sakes, all we gotta do is make the playoffs to match last season... if we can do that and get some potential I would consider this a hugely succesful year.

In my opinion, this year this team has been at its best with the younger players in the starting lineup. DBrown, Livingston Tyrus and Hendo have all contributed as much as anyother player this year. Why not add to that youth movement, to give us some hope for the future. I just dont want to be the team clinging to middle players like Jackson and Crash and sit in no mans land for the next 10 years. Making the playoffs, losing the lottery players and winning nothing.

[ammofan]

Diaw for Barbosa? Reunite Diaw with Colangelo, give Ed Davis time to settle in and the kid from USC gets to play. Couldnt happen for a while but I would be ok with it(16 on roster, have to move one to a third team or release a non guaranteed contract)

Augustine/Livingston/Watson
Barbosa/Brewer/Henderson/Carroll
Wallace/Brown/McGuire
Thomas/Johnson/Najera
Mohammad/Diop/Brown

Small step back this year, but much better going forward. Maybe trade someone for a future pick: get us to 15 and asset for future. Thoughts?

I would do it........I actually like barbosa and he could really help us if he is 100%

[DY_nasty]

All this "we can't rebuild" stuff is killing me. Not one single solitary itsy bitsy part of the recent good will and sponsor increase we have seen has come from the playoffs. Just set that straight now. Any and all good will that has been built up has come from Jordan. If you think someone was on the fence about the Bobcats and they made up their mind once we got our asses kicked in the first round.... you're wrong. Jordan is a huge icon and brought tons of good will and respect to the franchise simply by buying the team. So with that in consideration, a rebuild wouldnt hurt at all. Losing Jack or Crash to most people outside of diehard fans would mean nothing. Jordan isnt going to lose cool points from someone who recently hooked up with the Bobcats because he trades Steven Jackson away.

However, Jordan doesnt want to "rebuild" . No one does. And i dont think we have to. I honestly dont even know if we can call roster moves a rebuild at this point. in order to "rebuild" you would have had to have something built before hand. And a lousy playoff sweep is hardly a good foundation. I think its possible to "reload". I think we can match last seasons success AND gain some positive pieces for the future. I mean for god sakes, all we gotta do is make the playoffs to match last season... if we can do that and get some potential I would consider this a hugely succesful year.

In my opinion, this year this team has been at its best with the younger players in the starting lineup. DBrown, Livingston Tyrus and Hendo have all contributed as much as anyother player this year. Why not add to that youth movement, to give us some hope for the future. I just dont want to be the team clinging to middle players like Jackson and Crash and sit in no mans land for the next 10 years. Making the playoffs, losing the lottery players and winning nothing.Trying to rebuild while still actively pushing for the playoffs doesn't work. Just look at the Pistons.

In order to rebuild, you've got to go all in until you get something that you can actually build around. Middling in the NBA doesn't work.

[Mustachio]

Trying to rebuild while still actively pushing for the playoffs doesn't work. Just look at the Pistons.

In order to rebuild, you've got to go all in until you get something that you can actually build around. Middling in the NBA doesn't work.


Huh? Detroit isnt rebuilding, they are starting Tracy McGrady Ben Wallace rip hamilton Ben Gordon and Tayshaun Prince. how exactly is that a rebuilding project? are they rebuilding a retirement home?


You absolutely can rebuild on the fly. We have some good pieces. Just not enough to be great. Make some trades that bring in young talent and draft picks while still having Brown coach and some good pieces is totally possible. We are barely a playoff team as it is now, why cling to this roster and get stuck in a mediocre black hole?

[DY_nasty]

Huh? Detroit isnt rebuilding, they are starting Tracy McGrady Ben Wallace rip hamilton Ben Gordon and Tayshaun Prince. how exactly is that a rebuilding project? are they rebuilding a retirement home?


You absolutely can rebuild on the fly. We have some good pieces. Just not enough to be great. Make some trades that bring in young talent and draft picks while still having Brown coach and some good pieces is totally possible. We are barely a playoff team as it is now, why cling to this roster and get stuck in a mediocre black hole?
*sigh*

Once their window got closed after Flip let his team get obliterated by Lebron, they decided to keep their group of guys around trying to 'get a little better' with a bunch of dumb lateral moves. They weren't going to compete anymore, this was clear to anyone in the NBA who had a brain, but instead of blowing the whole thing up while their players still had value they signed a bunch of their core players to extensions. Then the AI for Billups move. The whole idea behind that trade was to stay competitive while AI's fat booty check expired then start a real rebuilding process - sike, Dumars gets caught sipping his own koolaid and instead blows the cap space that he just freed up by signing two of the worst contracts in the NBA. Now they can't trade those old bums that they signed to extensions if they wanted to and they got more crap contracts to boot. Moral of the story is to not play yourself.

And this team isn't quite close to an ideal ground level rebuilding situation yet, it'd take a good 2 years to get to that point. Those two years of getting rid of baggage and clearing everything off is the difference between Sacramento and Philadelphia.

Oh and Larry Brown needs to the get the hell out. He's the last coach I want developing young players... Dude doesn't even bother to have his team prepared before games anymore and refuses to fix the clear problems (turnovers) with this team that've carried over since last season.

[Fred Williamson]

Diaw for Barbosa? Reunite Diaw with Colangelo, give Ed Davis time to settle in and the kid from USC gets to play. Couldnt happen for a while but I would be ok with it(16 on roster, have to move one to a third team or release a non guaranteed contract)

Augustine/Livingston/Watson
Barbosa/Brewer/Henderson/Carroll
Wallace/Brown/McGuire
Thomas/Johnson/Najera
Mohammad/Diop/Brown

Small step back this year, but much better going forward. Maybe trade someone for a future pick: get us to 15 and asset for future. Thoughts?

wow, you guys STILL want Tyrus to start? How bad does he have to play until he gets the same hate any other Bobcats player gets on this board? He simplys sucks just as everybody else on this roster and is not starter material in this league. In case you didn't know, Bobcats fans (but mostly fans on this board) are the only people left on this planet who think Tyrus Thomas is not a bum.

Oh, and in before somebody says "but we pay him 8million dollars per year, we HAVE to start him" *facepalm*

[ammofan]

We should try to deal for Kaman/Davis......I would really love to see B-Diddy back in Charlotte again!!!

[DY_nasty]

We should try to deal for Kaman/Davis......I would really love to see B-Diddy back in Charlotte again!!!When you're getting run out of town by the Clippers...

[Dcarnys]

We should try to deal for Kaman/Davis......I would really love to see B-Diddy back in Charlotte again!!!

I would love to see that too, what I WOULD'NT love to see is that contract.

[rsxnova]

I would love to see that too, what I WOULD'NT love to see is that contract.

I agree. Kaman and Bdiddy would no doubt make us an interesting team for the next few years. Who would we have to move to make it happen?

[Ampsportsduo]

Am the only one opposed to adding new longterm contracts? I am fine with this core playing things out under Larry, but if I was Rod/MJ I would not be receptive to adding veterans whose contract will still be around after Larry has departed. The team has too many flaws and at best we're no better than 5th regardless of the trade made. Its much more fun to look to add another piece (and I don't want to rain on anyone's fun, so if a mod wants to move my post to a diff. thread it won't hurt my feelings), but I believe it's time to start looking to unload contracts perhaps for young pieces or preferably draft picks (I know, I know..).

Oh, and forget about adding BDiddy. That Clippers team has the talent to be good and he still came into camp out of shape. He's the kind of guy who might love to play on game days (not totally convinced of that at this point), but doesn't put in necessary work on other days. He also wants to be in LA, I'd hate to see his waistline if he came to Charlotte.

[BRNC]

I, for one, have no interest adding more long-term contracts...I'm doubtful that LB will be here after this year and I'd rather give whoever replaces LB as Head Coach some flexibility when LB leaves...if we can't recover from another horrifically mediocre start I'd much rather send long-terms out...

I have some concerns about our (lack of) energy and defense after these first couple of games...others have already pointed out that some players (Jack and Diaw are obvious to me) appear to be going through the motions...I'm convinced that LB wanting to bail after last season is coming back to haunt him...and unless there is a major attitude adjustment from LB and the players this is going to be a very long year...

[ammofan]

Who cares about the contract.....u gotta pay good players. And WE aren't paying them.

[Dcarnys]

Well we really dont have anything to give them, the only guys I can see us giving up for him is DJ and Diaw but thats sounds like a terrible trade on our ends.
Im still liking the rumor I heard Diaw to Boston for Nate Robinson and Big Baby. But we have a wait a month to do it (because of Nate)

[ammofan]

Well we really dont have anything to give them, the only guys I can see us giving up for him is DJ and Diaw but thats sounds like a terrible trade on our ends.
Im still liking the rumor I heard Diaw to Boston for Nate Robinson and Big Baby. But we have a wait a month to do it (because of Nate)

Where did u hear that rumor??????????????????????????? I would love that deal! haha

[teej]

Diaw for Lil' Him and Big Baby? Sign me up.

Only worry is Nate and DJ can't play at the same time. But hell, I'd do DJ + Diaw for Nate and Big Baby.

[Chef]

Who cares about the contract.....u gotta pay good players. And WE aren't paying them.

barron is a big bag of suck. he is absolutely terrible and is playing one of the more exciting teams in the league. bledsoe has started for him the past two games and is averaging a double/double. no thanks.

[ammofan]

barron is a big bag of suck. he is absolutely terrible and is playing one of the more exciting teams in the league. bledsoe has started for him the past two games and is averaging a double/double. no thanks.

Whoa, whoa......one of the more exciting teams? Since when did the Clippers become exciting lol......Griffin is exciting not the Clippers.

And B-Diddy did awfully good with Jack in GS when they made the Playoffs........

[ammofan]

Diaw for Lil' Him and Big Baby? Sign me up.

Only worry is Nate and DJ can't play at the same time. But hell, I'd do DJ + Diaw for Nate and Big Baby.

I would rather do Livingston/Diaw for Shrek and Donkey

[Chef]

Whoa, whoa......one of the more exciting teams? Since when did the Clippers become exciting lol......Griffin is exciting not the Clippers.

And B-Diddy did awfully good with Jack in GS when they made the Playoffs........

gordon, griffin and now bledsoe are all worth watching

and b-diddy was good in GS in 2006-2007. he is now old, fat and overpaid.

[teej]

Yeah, Baron's coasted ever since he signed that massive deal. And honestly, if it's nothing more than a political statement against Donald Sterling's racism, I applaud him. As long as that douche owns the team, they don't deserve to be good, Griffin be damned.

[Absinthe]

Jackson is a huge problem. He's always been a headcase and his ego has convinced him that he's a number one option. He's a blackhole on offense that will shoot no matter what kind of shot selection is available.

[Dcarnys]

Where did u hear that rumor??????????????????????????? I would love that deal! haha

I heard it on the gamechat during the Indiana game. I forget who said it though. Dont mean to sound stupid or anything but It was accepted in 2k11 haha.

[ZackTB23]

How about a 3 way trade between L.A. Clippers, Charlotte, and Toronto.
L.A. Clippers get Boris Diaw, Nazr Mohammed, Matt Carroll, and Jarrett Jack
Charlotte gets Baron Davis and Chris Kaman
Toronto gets Eduardo Najera and 2 future 2nd rd picks from Charlotte and 1 future 2nd rd pick from Clippers.
Thoughts?

[rsxnova]

How about a 3 way trade between L.A. Clippers, Charlotte, and Toronto.
L.A. Clippers get Boris Diaw, Nazr Mohammed, Matt Carroll, and Jarrett Jack
Charlotte gets Baron Davis and Chris Kaman
Toronto gets Eduardo Najera and 2 future 2nd rd picks from Charlotte and 1 future 2nd rd pick from Clippers.
Thoughts?

I dont see why we give them picks to take Baron off their hands. He is now a bad contract.

[Pepperz]

I wouldnt mind taking Baron off their hands if we get Kaman in the process plus they cant take any valuable pieces from us. But it will be a hard trade to make since both of them are making over 10 mil each. :/

[Chef]

I wouldnt mind taking Baron off their hands if we get Kaman in the process plus they cant take any valuable pieces from us. But it will be a hard trade to make since both of them are making over 10 mil each. :/

i'd rather have dj than barron and i don't really want dj.

[DY_nasty]

Didn't Baron just lose his job to a guy worse than DJ?

[Scottley Crue]

I'm curious what it'd take to get Jason Thompson from Sacramento. Would Nazr's expiring make it worth their while? They'd have to send someone else to make the salaries work, which make me fear they'd want it to be Beno Udrih and that terrible contract of his. Of course, if they're looking to save money and we're helping them do that, then maybe something can be worked out.

[Chef]

saw this on realgm. i like it. then again, i am for starting over, but this gives us 3 good contracts for trade deadline moves that could let us rebuild without absolutely gutting our roster. plus, we are not exactly racking up the wins with our current center rotation.

out:
diop
nazr

NO in:
mbenga
a. gray
peja

zackattack says no way on realgm, but i often very much disagree with him on all trades.

[BRNC]

I'm not sure NO does a thing given how they're playing...and if they're really trying to sign someone to play with CP3 then why would they trade Pega and his contract that's coming off the books?

[BRNC]

I just posted this for Bill Ingram on his chat...glad to get a response (he usually does) and thought I'd put it here...




Larry in Blowing Rock, NC:
Good morning Bill...my Bobcats are off to a "typical" slow Larry Brown start...do you see this as a slow start or do we have real problems at the Point Guard and Center positions?

http://www.hoopsworld.com/images/hw_icon.gif
Bill Ingram:

Augustin is playing better than anyone expected, and it's good to see. The real need is, as you mention, at center. Nazr's a good back-up center, and Diop isn't bad in spot minutes. But you have to have a starter, and right now the Bobcats don't.





Read more NBA news and insight: http://www.hoopsworld.com/chat.asp?status=&CHAT_TOPICS_ID=1263#ixzz14i5W2VtM

[Black]

Jason Thompson is rotting on the bench in Sacramento. There has to be a way to get him.

[BRNC]

JT (IMO) would be a great addition but two problems...1) what makes you think LB will all-of-a-sudden start a young guy...and 2) I doubt Kings make the deal without us sending DJ (which at this point would be counter-productive given we have no better PG on the roster)...

[Pepperz]

Chef, we need a center more then anything. Ive been happy with DJ for I knew he was able to fill the PGs shoes. I look at Baron as just somebody that comes off the bench. The hardest thing to swallow would be the contract. If there was some way to get JT or Gortat without having to take on Barons contract, lets take either one of those routes. Its either add bad contract or lose core player. If I had it my way, I would just hold onto what we got and wait for the RIGHT trade. Use the expiring contracts as trade bait. Unless we are 100% satisfied, I wouldnt pull the trigger.

DNasty, he didnt lose his job. He had a knee injury that gave Bledsoe the job. Plus Bledsoe has been doing a great job for a rookie. He as a lot of potential.

[Chef]

baron is absolutely horrid compared with his contract. dj is much better at this point and i still say after watching this season that dj is jason terry part 2 and not a starting point guard. he would be absolutely perfect coming off the bench for devin harris.

[adam187]

How about Erick Dampier, Matt Carrol, and Najera for Tyson Chandler and Alexis.

Thoughts?

[Chef]

How about Erick Dampier, Matt Carrol, and Najera for Tyson Chandler and Alexis.

Thoughts?

yup!? but if you are jordan would you want to pay lux tax for a 7 or 8 seed? chandler still sucks and would probably have sprained his pinky toe by now.

[Demon DeaCat]

Elton Brand appears to have turned back the clock this year. He's putting up 18/8 right now. I know his contract is scary, but if Philly still wants to rid themselves of his deal, I'd be willing to take him in exchange for Diaw and Nazr. The financial implications aside, I think this deal would do some great things for us. It obviously gives us a legit big man, it establishes TT as our starting PF, and it gets Brown on the floor more, all of which are positives IMO.

[Chef]

Elton Brand appears to have turned back the clock this year. He's putting up 18/8 right now. I know his contract is scary, but if Philly still wants to rid themselves of his deal, I'd be willing to take him in exchange for Diaw and Nazr. The financial implications aside, I think this deal would do some great things for us. It obviously gives us a legit big man, it establishes TT as our starting PF, and it gets Brown on the floor more, all of which are positives IMO.

make it diop and diaw and i would be willing to roll the dice. brand could be shut down at any second and he is one of the top 5 worst contracts in the league. the problem with all of these types of contracts (from an owners perspective, the one that matters most) is the unknown with the lockout and new cba.

[Black]

Elton Brand appears to have turned back the clock this year. He's putting up 18/8 right now. I know his contract is scary, but if Philly still wants to rid themselves of his deal, I'd be willing to take him in exchange for Diaw and Nazr. The financial implications aside, I think this deal would do some great things for us. It obviously gives us a legit big man, it establishes TT as our starting PF, and it gets Brown on the floor more, all of which are positives IMO.

Are you saying Brand starts at center, or comes off the bench? Because neither of those things would happen.

[Demon DeaCat]

make it diop and diaw and i would be willing to roll the dice. brand could be shut down at any second and he is one of the top 5 worst contracts in the league. the problem with all of these types of contracts (from an owners perspective, the one that matters most) is the unknown with the lockout and new cba.

I'd much prefer Diop for obvious reasons, I just doubt they'd be willing to do that. It would hardly make it worth it to them if they were tied up with Diop at $7 mil per for the next 3 years and Boris at $9 mil for the next 2. Also, the uncertainty of the cba makes it that much less of a risky proposition for us. If there's a lockout and no season next year we could only be on the hook for 2 years instead of 3.


Are you saying Brand starts at center, or comes off the bench? Because neither of those things would happen.

Why do you say he wouldn't start at center? While a bit undersized, he's played center quite a bit throughout his career.

[SWedd523]

Lol no thanks to Brand. We have too many overpaid PF/C's on the roster and too many health/age issues as it is.


Beno and Thompson for DJ/Nazr is about as far as I'd go. Only because the PG crop of 2011 is miles better than the big man crop.

[BRNC]

SWedd...I'd probably do the Kings trade...not sure the Kings would even though they've liked DJ off-and-on...any clue as to why JT is not playing much this season?

[G-Force]

BRNC... Kings have Cousins and Dalembert at Center and Landry at PF. Thompson is coming off the bench and is getting little PT due the players ahead of him.

[BRNC]

Thanks G-Force...but having a rookie (Cousins) getting your playing time is not much of an endorsement for JT (a player I like)...makes me wonder why he is not playing as well as last year or if something else is going on...it could be as simple as having money invested in Landry ( a good player) and the Kings having more long-term confidence that Cousins is the answer but it still gives me pause concerning JT...since the trade SWedd suggested does not improve (upgrade) our pg...could be (at best) viewed as a lateral move...we'd have to get a clear upgrade at the other position (Center) since Beno is a longer-term investment than Nazr...if JT can't start for the Kings it simply makes me wonder if he can really effectively start for us...

[Absinthe]

Some of you are completely bonkers. Elton Brand? Yeah, that's not a complete hail mary at all. /sarcasm

The idea is to get young players or draft picks. It would be great if we could SHED bad contracts and some of you are wanting to pick up MORE? Christ.

[Chef]

to okc:
jax
nazr
#2

to char:
harden
kristic
#1

or
jax for harden and cole aldrich

[teej]

to okc:
jax
nazr
#2

to char:
harden
kristic
#1

or
jax for harden and cole aldrich

Second one, hell yes.

[ZackTB23]

BTW just to let everyone know, I am also ZackAttack23 from realgm.com. Also I want to make another trade proposal.
Charlotte gets: Chris Kaman, Beno Udrih, and Jason Thompson
L.A. Clippers gets: Boris Diaw and Nazr Mohammed
Sacramento gets: Matt Carroll, Eduardo Najera, and D.J. Augustin

[G-Force]

Zack's trade is a +10 for Bobcats, Neutral for Clippers, and -∞ for Kings.

I would $hit in pant if that trade did go thru, but chances of that happening is slim to none.

[Black]

Just messing with the trade machine because I'm bored:

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=2ec8lpr

Stuckey/Livingston
Jackson/Hendo
Wallace/Brown
Tyrus/Villanueva
Nazr/Diop

[Demon DeaCat]

Some of you are completely bonkers. Elton Brand? Yeah, that's not a complete hail mary at all. /sarcasm

The idea is to get young players or draft picks. It would be great if we could SHED bad contracts and some of you are wanting to pick up MORE? Christ.

Can we please refrain from this type of discourse? Either agree or disagree, and state your reasons why in a civil manner, but the personal insults aren't necessary.

Trading for Brand wouldn't be the ideal transaction, but it is a bit more realistic than some of the Diop + Najera for Kaman-type scenarios that have been proposed, and it is exactly the type of trade we will be forced to make if we make one. Every trade we've ever made that has improved our team significantly (J-Rich, Diaw, Jax) has involved us taking on a long, large contract. As I see it there are two options: either shed our long contracts as you suggest via a fire sale and start all over or trade for established players and try to win now. But trading for established players necessarily means they will likely have long, large contracts. A valid argument can be made for either course of action, without being insulting I might add. I happen to prefer the latter, but regardless, we might as well accept the fact that no one is going to give us something for nothing. Acquiring talent through trades is going to require that we either a) give up talent in return, which is in limited supply on this team, b) give up draft picks, which we've done too often already, or c) be willing to take back good players with bad contracts. Any way you slice it, there's no easy fix.

[DY_nasty]

Thats a personal insult?

[BRNC]

I've just finished reading the Steve Kyler chat (he mainly deals with nba rumors/speculation)...I like both Ingram and Kyler and try to keep up with their chats...I found this interesting...



Kevin in Toronto:
Why does VC get no love? If LBJ couldn't get to the rim in there Playoff run with Boston how could Carter? Still a top 15 SG

http://www.hoopsworld.com/images/hw_icon.gif
Steve Kyler:

In spurts... VC also disappears in games and make a ton of bad decisions.

He also drops to the floor like he's been shot in the chest at the slight big of contact... I will conceed Vince has taken this situation far more seriously and worked his tail off in the off-season and its showing on the court... but as everyone in that locker room says... lets see where we are in May.

Here is my Top 15 Shooting Guards:

Kobe Bryant, LAL
Dwyane Wade, MIA
Brandon Roy, POR
Joe Johnson, ATL
Andre Iguodala, PHI
Stephen Jackson, CHA
Manu Ginobili, SA
Monta Ellis, GS
Eric Gordon, LAC
Ray Allen, BOS
Kevin Martin, HOU
Jason Richardson, PHX
Vince Carter, ORL
Jamal Crawford, ATL
O.J. Mayo, MEM
Read more NBA news and insight: http://www.hoopsworld.com/Chat.asp?CHAT_TOPICS_ID=1265#ixzz14u0Z1c2c

I thought it interesting that he has Jack at #6...we should all keep that in mind during our trade discussions...I'm fairly sure that around the league he'd (Jack) would be viewed in the 6-8 range which makes him a valuable asset...

The second one...



lazeric in jackson, mi:
what's up steve? i keep hearin all the bdiddy to the bobcats but wouldnt they be smarter to go after nash instead he would be a far better upgrade

http://www.hoopsworld.com/images/hw_icon.gif
Steve Kyler:

Baron Davis is available... Steve Nash is not... you can only trade for players teams want to move.

The Bobcats are desperate right now and even though baron isn;t worth his contract, he can still play and if he buys into Larry Brown and whats the Bobcats are about that might be a good move for both.



Read more NBA news and insight: http://www.hoopsworld.com/Chat.asp?CHAT_TOPICS_ID=1265#ixzz14u1bsw1C

The key for me is Barons' contract and health...but even more important is the "buy-in"...I have serious doubts Bdiddy buys-in to a primarily defensive team...that's my doubt...and as much as I like Nash he'd also be a very weak-link on the defensive end...that's why I've advocated (what I view as a more realistic and better fit IMO) going after a guy like Hinrich or A. Miller...better contracts and fit our style of play...

But...thought these were both food for thought...

[Scottley Crue]

Just messing with the trade machine because I'm bored:

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=2ec8lpr

Stuckey/Livingston
Jackson/Hendo
Wallace/Brown
Tyrus/Villanueva
Nazr/Diop

I'd very much like to get Stuckey in here, but as the backup to Jack. I think Stuckey is miscast as a PG and would be a fantastic sixth man. I have no idea what would trip their trigger in terms of a trade, but since Stuckey and Kuester can't seem to get along, maybe it wouldn't take as much.

[spectre]

I'd very much like to get Stuckey in here, but as the backup to Jack. I think Stuckey is miscast as a PG and would be a fantastic sixth man. I have no idea what would trip their trigger in terms of a trade, but since Stuckey and Kuester can't seem to get along, maybe it wouldn't take as much.

I'd love to have Stuckey, and as a combo guard like you're saying. An SG with his handles/abilities is an asset. A PG with his mentality/abilities not so much.

[teej]

Two things guys:

A) If Kuester doesn't like Stuckey, LB won't either.
B) Kyler's list had me thinking...since Memphis is trying to get into the playoffs, what about Jack, Hendo and UPS for OJ Mayo, Marc Gasol and Demarre Carroll. They declined to extend Gasol, and they don't want Carroll. Jack gives them leadership and a playoff vet, and Hendo and UPS can fill in off the bench. We (finally) get a real center and get back a minutes eater at SG.

[BRNC]

I like the trade Teej...but I'd rather not let UPS go if we can help it...if possible (and it might appeal to the Grizz for money savings at seasons end) I'd try to work Nazzy into the deal...it would make the numbers tougher to match though...but solid idea IMO...

[teej]

I like the trade Teej...but I'd rather not let UPS go if we can help it...if possible (and it might appeal to the Grizz for money savings at seasons end) I'd try to work Nazzy into the deal...it would make the numbers tougher to match though...but solid idea IMO...

I only put UPS in because honestly, once Dom gets back, he's going to rot on the bench. Trade him while his value's up, and then park Carroll on the bench.

And since Mayo can play more minutes, Hendo leaving allows Livingston/DJ to play more together, and Mayo is a better natural ball handler than DJ (or Jack) so the offense might flow better.

[SWedd523]

No way does Memphis trade OJ and Marc for that package. I'd be giddy if it happened though.

[spectre]

Kuester doesn't like Stuckey as his PG (well, now among other things), and Detroit went all in trading Billups to make that happen. Here we'd be talking combo guard...and in that role I think LB would love the guy. I think he'd be an excellent pairing with DJ too.

!) Athletic
2) Handles
3) Can play more than one position
4) Assume he's a decent/good defender
5) Main offensive strength is the drive/finish

All traits LB wants in his players.

[teej]

Swedd, we're talking about Chris Wallace, one step above Kahhhhhnnnnn.

Spectre, remember Kuester is an LB product, and if he's having personal issues with Stuckey, Lord knows LB would build a new doghouse. All of LB's asst's who've found coaching gigs have been milder than him...not a good sign for Rodney.

[BRNC]

I think Stuckey is a good fit here just not sure what Pistons take back for him...they need big help but I don't see a match unless we expand it to other players...or include another team might be possible...it would make Hendo expendable if Stuckey is used as a combo...

[spectre]

Swedd, we're talking about Chris Wallace, one step above Kahhhhhnnnnn.

Spectre, remember Kuester is an LB product, and if he's having personal issues with Stuckey, Lord knows LB would build a new doghouse. All of LB's asst's who've found coaching gigs have been milder than him...not a good sign for Rodney.

I know...but this difference between there and here is the commitment the Pistons' organization (meaning Joe Dumars) made to making him a PG.

Look at their roster right now; for PGs they have Stuckey, Ben Gordan & Bynum. They cleared the way totally for Stuckey...and he's not delivered.

There wouldn't be those expectations here.

[teej]

I know...but this difference between there and here is the commitment the Pistons' organization (meaning Joe Dumars) made to making him a PG.

Look at their roster right now; for PGs they have Stuckey, Ben Gordan & Bynum. They cleared the way totally for Stuckey...and he's not delivered.

There wouldn't be those expectations here.

I'm not even talking about that, although having two "tweener" PG/SG's who are better suited to be 6th men isn't a great idea. And I'd take DJ over Stuckey for that role. What I was talking about is Stuckey refusing to do what his coach said, and getting benched because of it. That's not a good sign. Now, sure, he could pull a Josh Smith and mature, but LB isn't the coach who's gonna deal with his shit.

[Plowright]

http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/70028/20101110/hornets_have_inquired_about_iguodala/

At the bottom we are listed as other teams the Hornets are looking to trade with. Any thoughts on what we would take/give up? We would be taking Peja's contract i assume but maybe anything else? Lets not turn this into a CP3 trade thread!

[DY_nasty]

I don't... want anything from New Orleans.

[Black]

Charlotte: If the Bobcats continue going south, would they be willing to move the long-term deals of either Stephen Jackson or Gerald Wallace for the payroll relief Stojakovic's deal would bring?

Just Broussard conjuring up bullshit.

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop

[G-Force]

If true, I would do Peja/M. Thornton for Jax/Najera.

[DY_nasty]

If true, I would do Peja/M. Thornton for Jax/Najera.
All day plz

[ammofan]

If true, I would do Peja/M. Thornton for Jax/Najera.

DO IT NOW! Im sure Gerald will approve too.....that way he doesnt get slammed on by Thornton anymore :D

[DY_nasty]

You know what? Jackson for Peja, a conditional 2015 2nd rounder, and a box of crayons sounds like a steal right about now

[SWedd523]

LOL Peja isn't worth a polished turd, much less Crash or Jack. If ANY deal goes down with Crash and Peja being the focal points, we better get both Thornton, picks, and shed bad contracts.

[SWedd523]

Also, merged. It's a trade discussion thread for a reason guys................... to discuss trades. That includes the rumors

[rsxnova]

The Hornets may be off to a 7-0 start, but that doesn't mean they aren't interested in improving their roster.
New Orleans has already contacted Philadelphia about Andre Iguodala, reports Chris Broussard of ESPN.com's True Hoop.
The 76ers quickly declined the offer, but the Hornets are expected to at least attempt to use the $15.3 million expiring contract of Peja Stojakovic to make an upgrade.
Broussard listed Charlotte, Detroit and Houston as other potential trade partners for New Orleans.


Read more: http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/70028/20101110/hornets_have_inquired_about_iguodala/#ixzz14x4VUs3n

I wonder if they are looking at Jack?

[d2t]

What do people think about getting Thornton and having him start at SG? I like it personally, just curious if anyone else feels the same



The Hornets may be off to a 7-0 start, but that doesn't mean they aren't interested in improving their roster.
New Orleans has already contacted Philadelphia about Andre Iguodala, reports Chris Broussard of ESPN.com's True Hoop.
The 76ers quickly declined the offer, but the Hornets are expected to at least attempt to use the $15.3 million expiring contract of Peja Stojakovic to make an upgrade.
Broussard listed Charlotte, Detroit and Houston as other potential trade partners for New Orleans.


Read more: http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/70028/20101110/hornets_have_inquired_about_iguodala/#ixzz14x4VUs3n

I wonder if they are looking at Jack?

[BRNC]

Our biggest need is a starting caliber center...trading Jack and not getting that position filled does not really solve the problem...it just means we trade Jack...

[Plowright]

I agree, we definitley need a athletic big man. Just depends how we go about getting one. But if there is any trade that happens it MUST fill that void. Our point guard is doing well. Jack hasnt been great this year and i have been going on about his TO as much as anyone else! However he did hit some clutch shots last night, would of had to if he hadnt Turned it over so much but anyway...

[Chef]

unless we are talking about rebuilding, scrapping the season and going for harrison barnes

[Chef]

here's one that is getting some traction on realgm

out: jax, nazr
in: peja, marcus thorton

i say hold out to see if we could either get a pick with it, clearly NO is getting much better or add arron gray/filler for najera or caroll

but i would do the original idea too.

[SWedd523]

That deal would have to be changed in one of two ways:

1) Switch Diop with Nazr
2) Add Gray to the package

[Chef]

That deal would have to be changed in one of two ways:

1) Switch Diop with Nazr
2) Add Gray to the package

NO would probably do the latter before taking diop. getting rid of carroll would be the best option given najera's ungar contract. also, matty could be relevant in NO with paul allowing him to spot up.

[spectre]

Trust me, there were people in the upper echelons of Raptordom who hoped one of Jack or Calderon were outstanding just to pique the interest of the Bobcats; that didn’t happen and I don’t know if there’s a legit fit there anyway. Toronto Star (http://thestar.blogs.com/raptors/2010/11/a-glaring-hole-and-other-delightful-items.html)

Still trying to dump a PG on us.

[ammofan]

Trust me, there were people in the upper echelons of Raptordom who hoped one of Jack or Calderon were outstanding just to pique the interest of the Bobcats; that didn’t happen and I don’t know if there’s a legit fit there anyway. Toronto Star (http://thestar.blogs.com/raptors/2010/11/a-glaring-hole-and-other-delightful-items.html)

Still trying to dump a PG on us.

I would take J. Jack....IDK about Jose now. I would prefer B-Diddy

[Chef]

I would take J. Jack....IDK about Jose now. I would prefer B-Diddy

i think i would rather have the lady from the police report in the off topic thread before either

[BRNC]

Trust me, there were people in the upper echelons of Raptordom who hoped one of Jack or Calderon were outstanding just to pique the interest of the Bobcats; that didn’t happen and I don’t know if there’s a legit fit there anyway. Toronto Star (http://thestar.blogs.com/raptors/2010/11/a-glaring-hole-and-other-delightful-items.html)

Still trying to dump a PG on us.

I"ve just finished reading the article spectre and could only smile and laugh at how desperate the Raptors must be to still be hoping to trade with us...really did bring a smile to my face...:biggrin:

I'm not really for any trade that does not bring a Center back with some potential or at the minimum a versatile big (Jason Thompson) that can eat some minutes at the 5...

[BRNC]

I just got this one answered from Hoopsworld chat with Stephen Brotherston who covers the Raptors and NBA...the only way I see us doing a deal with them (IMO) is if a third team is involved...I think it is interesting that they're still interested in "Doris" but again...unless we're getting a better 5 option I don't see it happening....

Larry in Blowing Rock, NC:
Good morning Stephen...I heard the Raptors still hope to trade with my Bobcats...who are they hoping to trade to us and who do they want back from us?

http://www.hoopsworld.com/images/hw_icon.gif
Stephen Brotherston:
Larry,

Bobcats could use a veteran PG and a center/ scoring big man.
Colangelo likes Diaw. But I'm not sure the Bobcats are interested in what the Raps might offer - they already declined one deal at the last moment - to everyone's embarrassment.

Nothing is impossible - just a little too soon.


Read more NBA news and insight: http://www.hoopsworld.com/chat.asp?status=&CHAT_TOPICS_ID=1260#ixzz14zlyA7zA

[Scottley Crue]

I just got this one answered from Hoopsworld chat with Stephen Brotherston who covers the Raptors and NBA...the only way I see us doing a deal with them (IMO) is if a third team is involved...I think it is interesting that they're still interested in "Doris" but again...unless we're getting a better 5 option I don't see it happening....

Larry in Blowing Rock, NC:
Good morning Stephen...I heard the Raptors still hope to trade with my Bobcats...who are they hoping to trade to us and who do they want back from us?

http://www.hoopsworld.com/images/hw_icon.gif
Stephen Brotherston:
Larry,

Bobcats could use a veteran PG and a center/ scoring big man.
Colangelo likes Diaw. But I'm not sure the Bobcats are interested in what the Raps might offer - they already declined one deal at the last moment - to everyone's embarrassment.

Nothing is impossible - just a little too soon.


Read more NBA news and insight: http://www.hoopsworld.com/chat.asp?status=&CHAT_TOPICS_ID=1260#ixzz14zlyA7zA

Hmmm...this makes me think (which is occasionally dangerous)...we need a center, the Raps want Boris and would like to rid themselves of a PG, Sacramento would seem to like a PG...How 'bout something with a framework of Boris to Toronto, Jason Thompson to Charlotte and Jarrett Jack or Calderon to Sacramento. Obvious hurdles with matching salaries and how much Sacramento values Toronto's PG's, but hey, it's just an idea that popped up.

[BRNC]

Hmmm...this makes me think (which is occasionally dangerous)...we need a center, the Raps want Boris and would like to rid themselves of a PG, Sacramento would seem to like a PG...How 'bout something with a framework of Boris to Toronto, Jason Thompson to Charlotte and Jarrett Jack or Calderon to Sacramento. Obvious hurdles with matching salaries and how much Sacramento values Toronto's PG's, but hey, it's just an idea that popped up.

I thought about this one also...problem is that the Kings would want DJ so that would be a problem getting JT...

[BRNC]

I'm bringing this over from the "DJ thread" since we need to discuss trades here...if we are talking with NO then I hope it only involves Jack...but I don't see us really getting our need (Center upgrade) dealing directly with them so it would seem to me another team would have to play some role...

[Chef]

question:
if we got an offer to move dj, carroll and diop for expirings (no picks or talent) would you do it?

how about:
chi gives us our first back and expiring for dj?

[BRNC]

question:
if we got an offer to move dj, carroll and diop for expirings (no picks or talent) would you do it?

how about:
chi gives us our first back and expiring for dj?

Chef...I guess if we blow the team up and have other trades lined up for Crash and Jack that do bring back young talent...but as a stand alone trade I would not do it...

[stun704]

Wouldn't it be possible that we trade Jax for Peja.. then Throw big money at Horford next year? Or throw about 8 Millie at Greg Oden? Center position solved

Also with trading Peja, I would go in tank mode.. give the youngins as much PT as possible this season and give develop them as much as can be.. Hopefully DJ Hendo and UPS develops into starter level talent.. then with a high draft pick next year, we will have a real good young nucleus to work with.. Our Nucleus could possibly be a Developed DJ, Hendo, UPS.. Allstars in Crash, Horford, and Loto pick in Irving or Barnes.. our future would be looking mad bright with plenty of trade pieces to retool our squad.