Is it time for the Bobcats to consider to trade Stephen Jackson or Gerald Wallace

[sprtsguyshowonyoutube]

Let have a discussion if it time to for the bobcats to trade either Stephen Jackson or Gerald Wallace ..Please watch my video and let me know if you agree with me that it time to make a major trade or you are happy with the roster is and you don't feel like there is a need to make a major trade.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0dG0JHbM-A

[Toocool]

I don't have the time to watch your youtube, but would simply like to post a question or two for discussion.
Considering we trade either A) Cpt Jack or B) Wallace

If A occurs:
Most likely Hendo would be starting at the 2. He's shown far more in his minutes this season than last season, but would you give him the starting reigns?
Could we possibly package Cpt Jack with Diaw for a solid/good center? Or just Jack himself for some solid C.

B occurs:
Who starts? UPS shifts to starting, or Jack moves to the 3, with Hendo to the 2.
Who would we target if we trade away Wallace? I doubt he's untouchable, but hes as damn untouchable as they come in a LB team

[teej]

While it may be time for Jack to go, it's never time for Crash to leave. He is this team, and he won't net anything close to his value (to this team) in return. Jack is probably in the same category as far as value, but were a trade to come up that may help, I'd think about it.

I don't, however, think they should decide on whether to trade them or not until after New Year's, when we have a better idea of how the team is as constructed.

[BigMike]

I am not even going to bother watching this. Crash is a 28 year old all star. So the only thing you trade him for is another sub 30 all-star and the league is in short supply of them.
Jackson, sure if there is a good deal I would trade him but it would have to improve our team.

[Chef]

according to ballwhore (def reliable when it comes to inside info) a league-wide feeler was put out on jax. Zero interest. at best he will net an expiring. your question should be do we start over or not? if the answer is yes we sell wallace for 75 cents on the dollar, get rid of diop/carroll with him and get back expirings/a young talent/and at least 1 #1 draft pick. if the answer is no we do not do a total start over, teej and big mike are right.

[ohara831]

I am not ready to throw in the towel on Henderson becoming a solid bench player. He has shown improvement so far this season, and the more PT he gets, the more improved his game. Dont give up on him.

Jax, I would trade if the price was right. I think he is more often playing poorly and hurting us as opposed to the Jax we need to be a good team. His TO's are bad, and I hate when he quits on plays. If he gets the ball stripped or blocked and no foul is called, he just looks at the referee and leaves the other 4 guys to play defense. Cant take that garbage for long.

Crash, I am far more reluctant to think of giving. If it brought us 2 starters to make the overall team better, then maybe. But who would trade for Crash and have 2 players to give up for him that would start for Charlotte? Seems like that team would improve themselves in one aspect, but hurt themselves in another. Just cant see it happening.

[WAM9]

I'm with you guys in general. Wallace is probably worth far more to us as a franchise as he is to anyone else. Jack doesn't carry enough trade value, league wide, to get back value in return for him.

With that being said, I am completely for waiting a month or 2 to see where this team actually is. We played pretty good ball down the stretch last year with both Wallace and Jack and I think we can do the same this season. DJ seems to have replaced Felton pretty well and a center is our biggest problem, not our wings. We are definitely playing better basketball 8 games in then we were on game 1. Let's give it a little time.

I didn't take the 10 minutes to watch the whole youtube video but in watching the first couple of minutes, one thing I disagree with is that we could easily be 0-8. While we could be 0-8 you could also make an arguement that we could just as easily be 4-4 or 5-3. We have had some bad calls go against us and had some opposing players really get hot and hit big shots in the 4th quarter of several games. I know that "if" a frog had wings, he wouldn't bump his ass but if we are going to say they could be 0-8 then I think the opposite could be successfully argued as well.

[sprtsguyshowonyoutube]

Let me say couple of thing .
It true that we could be 4-4 or 5-3 had calls went our way but as i said in my video .We can go on a long winning streak still this roster is not good enough to might even make the playoff and even if we will make the playoff we very well could get swept again . Henderson for a guy who was a 12th pick in the draft. I expected much more out of him.Then scoring 6 to 10 points per game .As said near the end of my video .I also hope that we don't need to trade crash .But folks at the end of the day we are a Bobcats fan first and Crash fan 2nd .I''m not saying they should trade him.But if by trading him we can get great value in return .That not only can help make the playoffs but also advance in the playoffs.Then we must consider trading crash away as much as it would hurt.The roster the way it is right now has a missing piss .We must get anther SG.If you can tell me we can trade Jackson Henderson Diop maybe also put Diaw in this trade.And we can get back .A very good SG plus a guy or 2 who can come off the bench then i would do it in a second because Tyrus Thomas has showing that he is ready to step in.Doing nothing won't fix the issue that are having with turnovers with not able to score as much as we need to.Not able to rebound .Again if you guys are just to make the playoff and that it and get swept again.Then fine everything is good then there is no need to do nothing.But if you believe no we don't need to rebuild but getting better in the short and long turn then a trade must be done.We can win the next 5 games maybe even 10 games.At the end of the day because not addressing the team in the Off-Season we took 2 step backward .Keeping Tyrus Thomas was the only good move that we made in the off-season

[Pepperz]

I hate the idea of trading players away and start rebuilding stage again. We have a good core of players that can stay together for awhile. Our draft picks are finally starting to come around the corner. DJ has picked up his play a bunch compared to last year. Brown has shown since his rookie year that he is turning out to be a second round steal. Henderson is starting to show what hes all about when he gets some PT. Wallace is the face of the franchise and I really dont think we are going to find another player like him that brings it game after game. TT has become a little more polished and with more time with LB, he can become a great great player. The only people I would even consider trading are Jackson and Boris (maybe Nazr). They are the only that we could trade and get some kind of good returning value but I will never trade them for expiring/picks. MJ should just wait it out until we see the right trade come up. Ill let everybody else just chill on the bench until their contracts expire.

[Chef]

I hate the idea of trading players away and start rebuilding stage again. We have a good core of players that can stay together for awhile. Our draft picks are finally starting to come around the corner. DJ has picked up his play a bunch compared to last year. Brown has shown since his rookie year that he is turning out to be a second round steal. Henderson is starting to show what hes all about when he gets some PT. Wallace is the face of the franchise and I really dont think we are going to find another player like him that brings it game after game. TT has become a little more polished and with more time with LB, he can become a great great player. The only people I would even consider trading are Jackson and Boris (maybe Nazr). They are the only that we could trade and get some kind of good returning value but I will never trade them for expiring/picks. MJ should just wait it out until we see the right trade come up. Ill let everybody else just chill on the bench until their contracts expire.

we won't make the playoffs with this team.

[Pepperz]

we won't make the playoffs with this team.

Then I guess we just have to play out rest the season to find out.

[Ghost Kat]

While it may be time for Jack to go, it's never time for Crash to leave.
Co-sign

I could live with Capt. Jack going but i don't really want him to. I just want him to stop turning the ball over.

[ballwhore]

Gerald Wallace is a third option at best on a legit playoff team but to bobcats fans he is a super duper duper star and untouchable. As long as he is the best player on the team Bobcats will remain fighting for the seventh, eighth seed or on the outside looking in.....

[Chef]

Gerald Wallace is a third option at best on a legit playoff team but to bobcats fans he is a super duper duper star and untouchable. As long as he is the best player on the team Bobcats will remain fighting for the seventh, eighth seed or on the outside looking in.....

your assessment is correct.

[DY_nasty]

Gerald Wallace is a third option at best on a legit playoff team but to bobcats fans he is a super duper duper star and untouchable. As long as he is the best player on the team Bobcats will remain fighting for the seventh, eighth seed or on the outside looking in.....
Totally agree.

This team has a horrible core. They have a chance of making the playoffs, still plenty of time to turn things around, but you can't build around Gerald Wallace and Stephen Jackson. I'd rather blow it up and set up a solid foundation than watch a team who's peak is a 2nd round sweep.

Liked the vid btw

[ohara831]

Gerald Wallace is a third option at best on a legit playoff team but to bobcats fans he is a super duper duper star and untouchable. As long as he is the best player on the team Bobcats will remain fighting for the seventh, eighth seed or on the outside looking in.....

But, but, but....... ouch. Reality can sometimes be a real pain in the a$$. I think Crash is a bit over valued by many Bobcat fans, but basically because he is our best player, and was not so greedy that he held us hostage for an unreasonable contract. He is a good man, and all things taken into consideration, we are very lucky to have him. But he would indeed be a 3rd option on most, but not all, legit playoff teams. He could be #2 on some of them. But we really do need someone who can be "The Man" and take over this team. Having Crash as our #2 and then some quality gathered around them would really be great. But right now, we do not have "that man" on this team. It sure a heck isn't Jax.

[teej]

Thing is, Crash is paid like a #3 or #4 option. So it's not like he's trying to be the #1, it's just the FO has whiffed so much, they can't get anyone to be better.

And if we were to trade Crash, what would possibly bring us a #1 or even #2 option back?

[WAM9]

3 things:

1 - After 8 games, less than 10% of the season, I am not ready to say we can't make the playoffs with this current team.

2 - Gerald Henderson is looking great to me. I watched him as a freshman at Duke and his improvement over his 3 years there. He seems to be on that same path with us. Athletically he is amazing and it shows in his defense. If he continues to knock down shots like he did in the last game, I will be extremely happy with his development schedule. Remember, he got almost no playing time last year. I don't have his per 36 or per 48 numbers handy but I bet they are very good.

3 - With the talk of trading Wallace...who exactly are you proposing that we could get for him? If he could net us one of the top 10-15 players in the NBA, then I would do it. My point is that teams that have players like these aren't going to deal them for Crash. Again, I ask, who are you proposing that we should get in return for Crash that would make sense and be a realistic deal?

[WAM9]

That kick is brutal CarolinaKat!

[rsxnova]

Trade Jack and all the expirings we can muster for Marc Gasol and OJ Mayo. We can dream right?

[Chef]

But, but, but....... ouch. Reality can sometimes be a real pain in the a$$. I think Crash is a bit over valued by many Bobcat fans, but basically because he is our best player, and was not so greedy that he held us hostage for an unreasonable contract. He is a good man, and all things taken into consideration, we are very lucky to have him. But he would indeed be a 3rd option on most, but not all, legit playoff teams. He could be #2 on some of them. But we really do need someone who can be "The Man" and take over this team. Having Crash as our #2 and then some quality gathered around them would really be great. But right now, we do not have "that man" on this team. It sure a heck isn't Jax.

then we owe it to him to find a home for him on a legit title contender either a two team deal or more likely a 3 team deal which gets us back expirings and multiple draft picks and lets try to rebuild. the only way we get a #1 option is through the draft.

[Chef]

1. that is more than fair
2. hendo is not great. he is a 2nd unit guy or at best the worst starter on a very solid championship team, used for defense.
3. trading crash = rebuild. expirings, good young talent, multiple draft picks

[WAM9]

1. that is more than fair
2. hendo is not great. he is a 2nd unit guy or at best the worst starter on a very solid championship team, used for defense.
3. trading crash = rebuild. expirings, good young talent, multiple draft picks

Is anyone really expecting Henderson to be the next MJ? I sure am not. If he turned into a defensive specialist who was a solid top 7 guy in our rotation, then I think that would be solid. This is a completely realistic expectation for him.

There is another thread which addressed the Crash thing. Are we really ready to rebuild and even more importantly, are we finished building yet? I, for one, am not ready to start rebuilding when I feel this team is still improving each and every year.

[sprtsguyshowonyoutube]

Can we agree on couple of thing.That what i posted in the video when it come to the bobcats was not as craziest idea as it seem at first.

Can we also agree that if they goal is to make a deep playoff run then something must be done.The roster that we have right now.As a bobcats fan Other then Cleveland and Toronto the way our roster is set up right now.We are at best the 12th team in the east.As far as Henderson goes.I don't expect him to be the next MJ .However what I expect him to put up numbers just like a 12th overall pick spouses to do.If i was not a Bobcats and a NBA fan and I did not watch the NBA draft from 2 years ago.I would have bet that Derrick Brown was a 12th overall pick while Henderson was a 2nd rd pick .

[sprtsguyshowonyoutube]

Is anyone really expecting Henderson to be the next MJ? I sure am not. If he turned into a defensive specialist who was a solid top 7 guy in our rotation, then I think that would be solid. This is a completely realistic expectation for him.

There is another thread which addressed the Crash thing. Are we really ready to rebuild and even more importantly, are we finished building yet? I, for one, am not ready to start rebuilding when I feel this team is still improving each and every year. I personally think we can either trade Crash or Jackson and not have to rebuild .I might post a new video on youtube posting in this thread .Throwing out ideas as far who the Bobcats can get in a trade for Crash or Jackson .And who we can't get it.If you want me to post a video like that please let me know

[davcbow]

I think we should stick with what we got for now unless it nets us a great center "Period"

[BlockParty]

This is by no means a tribute to Felton (I think DJ is filling into his new job better than I expected, and he still hasn't reached his peak), but I don't think the Bobcats can afford to let GW go. Felton and Wallace are the only two Bobcats in History that would play through pain night in and night out. I know GW has missed time in seasons past for minor aliments (collaseped lung, concussion, severe ankle sprain, etc), but he can fall from 8 feet in the air, land on his back and get up and keep playing. Felton even intentionally left his 'dress' clothes at home so Bickerstaff would let him dress in uniform for a road game a couple years ago....I'm not longing for Felton, I just think losing two guys like that in a short time span...would be a mistake.

Unless it's a trade that brings Durant...then they can pick any two of our players they like.

[WAM9]

Can we agree on couple of thing.That what i posted in the video when it come to the bobcats was not as craziest idea as it seem at first.

Can we also agree that if they goal is to make a deep playoff run then something must be done.The roster that we have right now.As a bobcats fan Other then Cleveland and Toronto the way our roster is set up right now.We are at best the 12th team in the east.As far as Henderson goes.I don't expect him to be the next MJ .However what I expect him to put up numbers just like a 12th overall pick spouses to do.If i was not a Bobcats and a NBA fan and I did not watch the NBA draft from 2 years ago.I would have bet that Derrick Brown was a 12th overall pick while Henderson was a 2nd rd pick .


I'm not suggesting the idea of trading Wallace (and to a lesser degree Jack) is crazy, just unrealistic if we are trying to get equal or greater value back in return. Did you watch last night's game? Wallace is not the problem with this team in any way shape or form. He, actually, represents everything which is right about this team. There is probably just no way to deal Wallace and get back more than we give.

I agree that this roster needs improved if we want to make a deep playoff run. I'm just saying that it needs to be addressed without dealing Wallace. Are we really trying to win it all this year? Orlando spanked us last year basically with the same roster. Chicago is very much improved as well. With that being said, neither of those teams have a chance at winning the East. Have you watched Boston play? Miami or Boston will win the East this year so we really don't need to try to make a short term move to try and go deep in the playoffs this season. We will not be able to improve this roster this year with short-sighted moves in order to be better than Boston or Miami. We need to "stay the course" and keep building this roster around Wallace and make consistent progress forward.

Brown looks great, and that is a good thing, but so does Henderson. I see plenty of little things that Henderson is doing and improving at which tell me he is clearly going the right direction. To say that he needs to play like a #12 pick is slightly nieve. He IS playing like a #12 pick. Here are a few of the past #12 picks Hilton Armstrong, Yaralov Korolev, Robert Swift, Nick Collison, Melvin Ely, Vlad Radmonovic, Etan Thomas, Aleksander Radojevic, Vitaly Potepenko, Cherokee Parks. As you can see, these guys aren't exactly stars in the league. Henderson is doing just fine overall.

12th best team in the East? Let's give the team another month and come back to this point. I know it is popular right now to say that due to our slow start but that is simply not the case. Again, let's re-look at this in a month. Right now, even with our slow start, we are only 1 game out of 7th in the East and only 2.5 games out of 2nd! We aren't as bad as you think and I see tremendous improvement each and every game.

[Toocool]

Can we agree on couple of thing.That what i posted in the video when it come to the bobcats was not as craziest idea as it seem at first.

Can we also agree that if they goal is to make a deep playoff run then something must be done.The roster that we have right now.As a bobcats fan Other then Cleveland and Toronto the way our roster is set up right now.We are at best the 12th team in the east.As far as Henderson goes.I don't expect him to be the next MJ .However what I expect him to put up numbers just like a 12th overall pick spouses to do.If i was not a Bobcats and a NBA fan and I did not watch the NBA draft from 2 years ago.I would have bet that Derrick Brown was a 12th overall pick while Henderson was a 2nd rd pick .


Whoa whoa whoa whoa. Hold your horses young fella. Just because someone doesn't put up crapall stats doesn't mean they're not making an impact. He's playing as a 4th/5th option on offense when hes on the floor, hes there mainly for defense and energy. He tries to rebound the ball, box out and play hard D. He helps D when he thinks he should, he sprints to contest shots and he runs on the fast break. Just because he scored zilch, yet got 3 rebounds, 1 foul and 1 steal doesn't mean crap that he should be a 2nd round draft pick. If people would get off stats, and actually watch the frickin game, things would be so much different in the NBA world.

We are at best 12th in the league? I'm glad I never watched your video mate.

[Chef]

12th pick overall is exactly what you expect when looking at gerald's performance. i think his performance is fine, my problem is with people saying we shouldn't trade him and give him a chance he could be really good. this i very much disagree with and have no problems adding him into any trade as long as it is bringing back value.

[BRNC]

I think any thread that has the best player on the team listed (Crash) as trade fodder turns me off from the get-go...secondly...we have a trade thread going so I've ignored this up until now...I admit I've not watched the video since I've read the posting and one qualifier ("could easily be 0-7" I think it was) to legitimize starting the thread is a joke...as others have pointed out that could also be 4-3 just as easily and 5-2 with some stretch...I think if this had been in the trade thread to start with I might have watched...but I just get the feeling you're trying to get youtube hits so I ignored the video...

[sprtsguyshowonyoutube]

I think any thread that has the best player on the team listed (Crash) as trade fodder turns me off from the get-go...secondly...we have a trade thread going so I've ignored this up until now...I admit I've not watched the video since I've read the posting and one qualifier ("could easily be 0-7" I think it was) to legitimize starting the thread is a joke...as others have pointed out that could also be 4-3 just as easily and 5-2 with some stretch...I think if this had been in the trade thread to start with I might have watched...but I just get the feeling you're trying to get youtube hits so I ignored the video... I'm not trying to get youtube hit. As said again in my video we could have start the season 8-0 using as an example and still the way the roster is set up right now it not good enough to make the playoff or not get swept again

[sprtsguyshowonyoutube]

I'm not suggesting the idea of trading Wallace (and to a lesser degree Jack) is crazy, just unrealistic if we are trying to get equal or greater value back in return. Did you watch last night's game? Wallace is not the problem with this team in any way shape or form. He, actually, represents everything which is right about this team. There is probably just no way to deal Wallace and get back more than we give.

I agree that this roster needs improved if we want to make a deep playoff run. I'm just saying that it needs to be addressed without dealing Wallace. Are we really trying to win it all this year? Orlando spanked us last year basically with the same roster. Chicago is very much improved as well. With that being said, neither of those teams have a chance at winning the East. Have you watched Boston play? Miami or Boston will win the East this year so we really don't need to try to make a short term move to try and go deep in the playoffs this season. We will not be able to improve this roster this year with short-sighted moves in order to be better than Boston or Miami. We need to "stay the course" and keep building this roster around Wallace and make consistent progress forward.

Brown looks great, and that is a good thing, but so does Henderson. I see plenty of little things that Henderson is doing and improving at which tell me he is clearly going the right direction. To say that he needs to play like a #12 pick is slightly nieve. He IS playing like a #12 pick. Here are a few of the past #12 picks Hilton Armstrong, Yaralov Korolev, Robert Swift, Nick Collison, Melvin Ely, Vlad Radmonovic, Etan Thomas, Aleksander Radojevic, Vitaly Potepenko, Cherokee Parks. As you can see, these guys aren't exactly stars in the league. Henderson is doing just fine overall.

12th best team in the East? Let's give the team another month and come back to this point. I know it is popular right now to say that due to our slow start but that is simply not the case. Again, let's re-look at this in a month. Right now, even with our slow start, we are only 1 game out of 7th in the East and only 2.5 games out of 2nd! We aren't as bad as you think and I see tremendous improvement each and every game. i agree with you that sure not even if we make a trade we are not going to win the east .i don't expect a trade all the sudden to make us the best team in the east right now. However what I'm saying is the way the roster is set up right now we are not one of the 8 best team in the east the reason again we are not scoring enough we keep giving the ball way to much.Last year making the playoff was fun.But it was not fun to get sweep. I hope that the bobcats goal it not just to make the playoff but to make the playoff and get better every year.And if it mean trading Jackson to do it.Then I'm all for doing it.And the end of the day we are a bobcats fan first and a player fan 2nd .As far where i disagrees with you. on Henderson .Taking him at 12th in my view it was a bad pick .You put up numbers of guys who were also 12th pick in the draft and are not in the NBA anymore because they were not great player.At the 09 draft we could have got someone like Austin Daye (http://www.nba.com/draft2009/prospects/128.html) or Taj Gibson (http://www.nba.com/draft2009/prospects/142.html) .I understand that we can't play Monday Morning QB what However I'm saying is getting Henderson at 12th pick was a waste pick.Had the Bobcats Kept the the 12th pick someone like Austin Daye or Taj Gibson then somehow got anther pick late in the 1st RD and pick Henderson then i would have no issue with picking him.That all I'm saying

[sprtsguyshowonyoutube]

Whoa whoa whoa whoa. Hold your horses young fella. Just because someone doesn't put up crapall stats doesn't mean they're not making an impact. He's playing as a 4th/5th option on offense when hes on the floor, hes there mainly for defense and energy. He tries to rebound the ball, box out and play hard D. He helps D when he thinks he should, he sprints to contest shots and he runs on the fast break. Just because he scored zilch, yet got 3 rebounds, 1 foul and 1 steal doesn't mean crap that he should be a 2nd round draft pick. If people would get off stats, and actually watch the frickin game, things would be so much different in the NBA world.

We are at best 12th in the league? I'm glad I never watched your video mate. 12th best team is base of the standing before Friday night game.I'm sure before the season is end will move up but 12 best team in the east or even 8 best team in the east.If we do make the playoff again we will get swept Which i hope that is not the bobcats goal.If it is then we might as well not make the playoff at all

[BRNC]

The goal should always be to make the play-offs because you win nothing if you're not there...and again...if this had been part of the trade thread that's already going I'd have paid more attention to the thread...I realize every poster thinks what they have to post is "the most important" post...but it does become tiresome when we have a thread to deal with this...

I realize that my "it feels like this is to get youtube hits" may not be accurate...but that is what it "feels" like to me...

I've never been a supporter of teams losing for draft picks...I'd rather see this team get swept in the play-offs than become one of those teams...the 'Cats have been a better team every year (discounting the "Fine Ham biscuit" which is easily discounted) and that is the only thing I'm interested in this team doing...becoming better and trading our two best players in the hope that we eventually might/may/could/perhaps be better does not appeal to me...

[DY_nasty]

The goal should always be to make the play-offs because you win nothing if you're not there...and again...if this had been part of the trade thread that's already going I'd have paid more attention to the thread...I realize every poster thinks what they have to post is "the most important" post...but it does become tiresome when we have a thread to deal with this...

I realize that my "it feels like this is to get youtube hits" may not be accurate...but that is what it "feels" like to me...

I've never been a supporter of teams losing for draft picks...I'd rather see this team get swept in the play-offs than become one of those teams...the 'Cats have been a better team every year (discounting the "Fine Ham biscuit" which is easily discounted) and that is the only thing I'm interested in this team doing...becoming better and trading our two best players in the hope that we eventually might/may/could/perhaps be better does not appeal to me...
But how many teams have got better by steadily improving without building primarily through the draft? Every single playoff team in the East last year was a product of that kind of growth. Even Boston had to use its young players through bad seasons to acquire the pieces necessary to make trades.

In the NFL, you can gradually build through good coaching and relatively minor roster adjustments, but in the NBA that just doesn't happen.

[BRNC]

Dy...I don't disagree but this organization has to do a better job with the draft...and they've given me little reason to think (outside of UPS) they can...I thought it was a mistake to trade our 1st for TT...but we did...I'm all for building through the draft...I'm just not for tearing (IMO) apart a team with enough talent to go to the play-offs on hopes and prayers because we've (the FO) have not shown that we're capable of building through the draft...

[LiquidWayno]

Jack, I'd entertain offers....HELL NO for Crash. I hope he is still on our roster at age 40.

[DY_nasty]

Dy...I don't disagree but this organization has to do a better job with the draft...and they've given me little reason to think (outside of UPS) they can...I thought it was a mistake to trade our 1st for TT...but we did...I'm all for building through the draft...I'm just not for tearing (IMO) apart a team with enough talent to go to the play-offs on hopes and prayers because we've (the FO) have not shown that we're capable of building through the draft...
Unlike many people here, I believe that our drafting has been above average. Our development of talent however is absolutely atrocious. Many people don't bother to distinguish between the two.

[BRNC]

I do distinguish between the two and IMO the drafting has been anything but above-average...but I do agree that until LB leaves not much development with young players will happen...that's why the truly most frustrating thing about our team I've heard recently was MJ wanting to extend LB...I appreciate what LB has done on the defensive end but I'd rather this be his last year...

[DY_nasty]

I do distinguish between the two and IMO the drafting has been anything but above-average...but I do agree that until LB leaves not much development with young players will happen...that's why the truly most frustrating thing about our team I've heard recently was MJ wanting to extend LB...I appreciate what LB has done on the defensive end but I'd rather this be his last year...
Our picks haven't been that bad. Okafor - RoTY, never improved. Felton - solid, no real significant improvement. May - had talent, got injured, handled extremely poorly by the organization. Morrison - decent even had a bit of potential, got injured, handled extremely poorly. Dudley - solid pick all-around. DJ - Arguably beat outperformed Felton in his rookie year. Worst management I've ever seen of a second year player. Alexis - Meh, shit happens. Gerald - questionable how he's been handled in his rookie year. All but one of our first round picks has come in with a solid foundation for growth. Its after the draft that the issues set in.

You referring to that bit on realgm not too long ago? I always thought that piece was quoting some rather old information from last year.

Edit: At least thats what I hoped

[sprtsguyshowonyoutube]

Let me say couple of thing about our pick other then Okafor who is a decent player .And Felton who we should have kept .Picking up DJ has been a good pick .Dudley has been a good pick.Henderson should have not been pick at 12.Brown a great pick at the 2nd rd .Other then that.Had we made good pick.Such as not drafting Morrison or May.Right now they would be even a Thread saying is it time to consider to trade either Jackson or Crash.I Understand that we are a small market team.And we can't get a top FA .Because of that We must have a very good Draft if not very good then a good Draft .And B We must work out a Trade that it might make some of the Fans mad but it will make this team better short turn and long turn .

[sprtsguyshowonyoutube]

Jack, I'd entertain offers....HELL NO for Crash. I hope he is still on our roster at age 40. Jake i would listen to offers. And Some goes for Crash. I'm not saying Trade Crash.But I'm saying is if a team come to the Bobcats and offer them a player or 2 that can make this team better in the short and long turn.Then as much as it would sad to see Crash go.Because not only he is a very good player but he is the team leader.Then as Painful as it might be.I do that trade.Now i Listen to offer for Jackson first.or any other player that can make the cats better

[CatNation]

I think other than Morrison our drafts haven't been so bad. We often get the guys we want taken before they get to us like Hibbert and Williams. May was a good ball player whos knees didn't hold up. DJ is starting to look good. I remember a lot of us in the chat begging for the FO to pull a trade for a 2nd rounder with all those scrubby euro guys who never come over were getting drafted with Blair still on the board.

[WAM9]

Jake i would listen to offers. And Some goes for Crash. I'm not saying Trade Crash.But I'm saying is if a team come to the Bobcats and offer them a player or 2 that can make this team better in the short and long turn.Then as much as it would sad to see Crash go.Because not only he is a very good player but he is the team leader.Then as Painful as it might be.I do that trade.Now i Listen to offer for Jackson first.or any other player that can make the cats better

Again, I ask, what players do you propose we deal for Crash? I haven't seen a single deal ever that I would sign off on for Crash that was realistic for the other team as well. The only exception might have been one that brought Carmello to us but only if he signed a contract extension as well.

[BRNC]

Cat...there is no draft other than the EO50 when we could not have drafted a better player or had a confirmed chance to move up and draft a better player...the only picks on the roster are DJ, UPS, and Hendo...so something obviously did not pan out and frankly no player we've drafted/traded has panned out any place else...EO50 is that exception...period. Ray is what he is and was not a bad pick but we had an opportunity to move up in that draft for DWill or CP3 and did not...so I can't even think of our drafts being anything better than average at best...

[SWedd523]

One thing that needs to be noted (and probably deserve it's own thread) is that the Bobcats aren't a "bad" drafting team, just a terribly unlucky one. The Cats have fallen victim to circumstance in just about every draft we've been in.

We've always targeted players taken before us or passed on players for legitimate reasons.


2004- Emeka Okafor. Was a smart, solid pick for an expansion team.

2005- Raymond Felton, Sean May. All of the rumors were that we were going to trade the 5 and 13 for the 3 where Chris Paul was the target. There were concerns that Paul would be too small to handle the NBA (and his recent injuries whisper to those concerns) and they eventually decided that Felton's skill was close enough to Paul to where it wasn't worth giving up another lottery pick when they could use it on a scoring big man to pair with Okafor. Bad luck.

2006- Adam Morrison. Looking back, the three main targets were Brandon Roy, Adam Morrison, and Rudy Gay (since we had every other position filled). As far as Rudy goes, The concern was that he was too much of an unproven and raw project player. This troubled MJ after the Kwame debacle. I can't really fault him because raw players hardly ever work out, and I don't think a team looking to establish itself could wait on a project like Rudy. Regarding Roy, the concerns were twofold, his reluctance to play for Charlotte was troubling and a deterrent, yes. But there was a growing concern about his knee problems (The same knee problems that have plagued him his entire career). Adam Morrison was the only guy left standing. It's not like he was a dumb choice anyway. In just about every mock and every assessment, Ammo was touted for his advanced offensive talents and drive to improve (things MJ loved). He was fresh off one of the greatest college seasons in history, so it seems like a great pick. He played well when given the chance and would be a very nice player if not for his injury problems. Bad luck.

2007- Brandan Wright, Jared Dudley. The Wright pick was predetermined by Golden State so it's hard to decide who we were targeting with that pick. The trade (bringing JRich) was worth it in my eyes because the SG spot was the only discernible hole in our lineup. Dudley was, and is continuing to prove that he's a great role player that adds a lot to whatever team he's on.

2008- DJ Augustin, Alexis Ajinca. We all know the story on this one. Brook was our target and all indications pointed to us taking him (even went as far as to call him and inform him), before LB intervened and decided on DJ. DJ is proving to be a nice, solid player, but he's no Brook. As for Lexy. We were targeting Roy Hibbert with that pick after LB forced the DJ selection. However, the Pacers snatched him up before us so we settled for Lexy. Bad luck.

2009- Gerald Henderson. Again, we all know the story on this one. Terrence Williams was the prohibitive favorite with this pick, and a guy we (fans included) all wanted. However, the Nets took him one spot before us so we were forced to choose Hendo. Bad luck.



To recap, here's a list of guys it's confirmed we targeted, but ultimately didn't pick due to bad luck: Chris Paul, Brandon Roy/Rudy Gay, Brook Lopez, Roy Hibbert, and Terrence Williams. That is one HELL of a starting lineup. So the next time you make fun of the Bobcats for being a bad drafting team, Remember that we have terrible luck in the draft, not terrible decisions.

[LiquidWayno]

Good review Swedd. 2008 was the worst. I was DYING to draft Lopez and snag Chalmers with that 2nd pick....tsk, tsk.

[BRNC]

SWedd...very good summation but I will point that not trading up to draft CP3 and drafting Adam over Roy had nothing to do with our "luck"...IMO it had to do with poor decisions...same with Lopez and DJ...Lopez and Hill would have been a much better draft IMO...again not luck but damned poor decisions...

[SWedd523]

There were concerns about both Paul and Roy. Most of which are proving true (especially in Roy's case).


Look at it without names. Would you rather have an A+ guy, or an two A guys? Some would say you can't go wrong either way and most would say the two slightly less guys outweigh the one greater guy. Had May not been injured/lazy and turned into the 18/10 player most thought he would, then the ridicule wouldn't be anywhere near as bad as it is. As for Roy, remember that Ammo was touted as a top 3, can't miss player by EVERYBODY. It's not like Roy was the clear favorite. Ammo was THE guy. Sure there were questions about him too, but most would take the guy with questionable defense over the guy with questionable health.

DJ was bad luck by extension. It was a bad decision by LB, but bad luck for the franchise. Work with me here!

[BRNC]

LOL...McMay was a known...let me emphasis known conditioning problem before the draft...no one I read put Ray in the same category with DWill or CP3...and yes...Roy was a concern but I read two out of ten analyst that actually thought Ammo would be an NBA player...the DJ fiasco stands on it's own...

[teej]

Swedd, it's not bad luck, it is twofold. Nonexistence of backup plans and poor management.

Mek, that was fine. But they were trying to get Jameer too, and Bernie didn't want to risk what Orlando eventually gave up. That's one you missed, and it's a big one.

'05, they absolutely could've had Paul (or D-Will if they wanted) because the offer was there for 5 and 13 to move up to 3. Bernie once again chose not to.

'06, Yeah they picked what seemed the lesser of two evils, but any psychologist would've been able to tell Ammo was nuts. And Bernie convinced MJ that Ammo was ok, so MJ was probably either not yet back into knowing the kids or just wasn't ready after Kwame (and who could blame him).

'07 they were fine, (this was also Rod's first year, keep that in mind.

'08 they let LB determine what they wanted because MJ was either not confident in himself or was pussy whipped by LB. Bad management, no doubt.

'09 Can't blame them for the Nets selecting T-Will, but I find it hard to believe they couldn't have moved up to #10 or #11 with Lexy or another piece, which means they weren't convinced on T-Will, and to be fair this is so recent it's hard to judge.

With Rod here, the scouting seems to have picked up, which is probably because of the guy he brought over with him from GSW. What no one seems to understand is that the current regime had nothing to do with ANYthing until Ammo, and very little actualy drafting until '09 (JMZ being the exception).

[millst2]

Our picks haven't been that bad. Okafor - RoTY, never improved. Felton - solid, no real significant improvement. May - had talent, got injured, handled extremely poorly by the organization. Morrison - decent even had a bit of potential, got injured, handled extremely poorly. Dudley - solid pick all-around. DJ - Arguably beat outperformed Felton in his rookie year. Worst management I've ever seen of a second year player. Alexis - Meh, shit happens. Gerald - questionable how he's been handled in his rookie year. All but one of our first round picks has come in with a solid foundation for growth. Its after the draft that the issues set in.

Smartest thing said so far. Our drafting has not been that bad at all, the biggest failures we have had was Ammo and Ajinca. Felton was solid as hell, May played damn good and every fan saw his potential when he was putting up solid numbers ( before his injury then he was starter for krispy kreme), Dudley was fine, Okafor was solid ( no energy , was like he played souped up on Zoloft), Henderson is playing better than i thought he would this yr after he played for such a dumbass anti-rookie coach..

The problem for the most part is not our draft picks, it is the coaching staff that are running the show for the said draftees. I think honestly LB needs to GTFO. A lot of his moves are questionable, the first 2 yrs he was actually coaching with a fire in his belly, this yr i think over the summer he thought he could just waltz out of here, and jordan shut the damn door on that fast.

I agree we need a center, I agree that if we could do a jax for peja trade we could use the salary space over the summer or even at the trade deadline. But wallace i think is a mainstay, by far our best player and provides the biggest amount of leadership we have on the team. I am still up in the air with DJ, but i think once livingston gets back to full strength that will concern me a lot less. We then can see if najera has anything for us.

Season is still early, but i think if we can do a peja for jax trade we get out of his salary, save locker room cohesion and i think our offense works well for peja as he is more of a spot up quick release style player. Peja a career 17 pts a game scorer, Jax a 16 pts per game scorer over their careers. peja i think he is fine and healthy and we wouldnt lose any scoring doing that trade.

[DY_nasty]

Honestly, I don't care if Peja ever sees the court lol. Gimme that expiring~

[sprtsguyshowonyoutube]

Again, I ask, what players do you propose we deal for Crash? I haven't seen a single deal ever that I would sign off on for Crash that was realistic for the other team as well. The only exception might have been one that brought Carmello to us but only if he signed a contract extension as well.. How about I do this .Tomorrow i will post a short 3 to 4 minutes maybe even less then that a youtube video Where i will give my idea as far which player the bobcats can ask for Crash or Jackson.i will post the video in this thread .And no I'm not doing the video to get more hit or anything like that.

[teej]

. How about I do this .Tomorrow i will post a short 3 to 4 minutes maybe even less then that a youtube video Where i will give my idea as far which player the bobcats can ask for Crash or Jackson.i will post the video in this thread .And no I'm not doing the video to get more hit or anything like that.



That'd be good, because I'm lost as to who Crash could net that helps this team.

[sprtsguyshowonyoutube]

Let me first say i did not watch the game tonight.Because i was busy logging college football at espnu. With that said I just saw on the Charlotte Observer that we blow a 19 points lead and lost by 1.Now I understand that Utah is a very good team and that they won what like five games in a raw coming into tonight game. However, I'm starting to have a concern about the Bobcats and that is .That after making the playoffs last year. That this team takes it for granted and expects to win. What I mean last year you could see this team playing with Effort even when they lost you know that they were going to give it all they have.This year. So far, far it seemed like the Effort the Heart as gone. Maybe it because this team is not good as it was last year. Alternatively, maybe it combined of not being good and not playing with Heart.

[sprtsguyshowonyoutube]

That'd be good, because I'm lost as to who Crash could net that helps this team. I think when it come to either Crash or Jackson .Right now a trade would not happen for team that are above us in the standing

[ZackTB23]

I only wanna trade Jackson, NOT Wallace!

[Lex23]

After watching Stephen Jackson come off the bench in the fourth quarter last night and just jack up five or more shots in a row like he was playing the game by himself, I would like to trade him. He is not playing with the Golden State Warriors anymore. The mentality of firing at will should have been out of him by now. Gerald Wallace totally disappeared during that stretch and so did D.J. Nazi was having a career night and the Bobcats still let the Jazz off the hook. Plus Jackson turns the ball over several times a game and just complains. After this summer I thought point guard would be the biggest issue for the Bobcats but D.J. has really stepped up and done way more than I expected. I really hope management does something soon.

[kickazzz2000]

Let me first say i did not watch the game tonight.Because i was busy logging college football at espnu .With that said I just saw on the Charlotte Observer that we blow a 19 points lead and lost by 1.Now I understand that Utah is a very good team and that they won what like 5 games in a raw coming into tonight game.But I'm starting to have a concern about the Bobcats and that is .That after making the playoffs last year.That this team take it for granted and expect to win.What I mean last year you could see this team playing with Effort even when they lost you know that they were going to give it all they have.This year.So far it seem like the Effort the Heart as gone.Maybe it because this team is not good as it was last year.Or maybe it combined of not being good and not playing with Heart
dukey, is that you?

[dunnlx]

Thank you.

[sprtsguyshowonyoutube]

ok here is a quick video that i posted talking about which players that Bobcats if they deiced to trade Stephen Jackson should try to get and why it would work out for both teams.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hy-_1BAWrC0

please let me know what you guys think

[sprtsguyshowonyoutube]

ok here is a quick video that i posted talking about which players that Bobcats if they deiced to trade Stephen Jackson should try to get and why it would work out for both teams.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hy-_1BAWrC0

please let me know what you guys think

Sorry about getting 2 names wrong i will make sure that it won't happen again

[WAM9]

OK. Well my biggest comment has been about not trading Wallace and it seems you have come around to that so we will leave that one alone.

As far as SJax goes, you bring up a couple of decent opportunites but I doubt both teams would agree to any of these.

GS - no way would they ever trade back for SJax in my opinion. If they did, it would have to be for such a lopsided deal going their way that we couldn't afford it.

Detroit - Gordon and Hamilton are decent players but both have to consider that Hamilton is old and both players make more money than Jackson. I would maybe consider Gordon but I doubt there is any way Detroit would do it.

Cleveland - I wouldn't do it for Parker but Varejao is a possibility. What we do at our 2 spot though in the meantime? And, what would Cleveland do inside? Just doesn't seem feasable to me.

76ers - AI? He makes a lot of money but is probably worth it. He seems a lot like Wallace but if we could pull off a deal for AI, I would be for it. Why would Philly do this?

Port - You can't be serious about them dealing Aldridge. I just don't see it in a million years. If we could get LA for Jack, then, yeah, I would be all for that. Oden is interesting. He has been a bust so far and is the first #1 overall pick to not get his normal rookie contract extension for quite some time. He is injured and Portland would have extended him if they wanted him back. It would be a risk but probably one I would take a chance on. Some other salaries would need to be included to make it work. Maybe even a bad contract from our end.

Spurs - Jack might be a decent fit here but I don't see them dealing Blair for him or Hill either. I would have to think about this some more but I just don't see them doing this for either player.

I like some of the ideas you have come up with but overall, I just don't see any that stand out as positive for both teams. Oden would be a huge risk but I think that may be the most realistic...maybe.

[sprtsguyshowonyoutube]

GS might take back Jack only reason is because Cats and GS have work out trade in the past so they might be able to do it again .

For Cleveland that why i said Parker and Varejao .For Jack .Also Parker is not having a bad season.If that trade was offer I think both teams would agree to do it. We can offer them Nazr Mohammed or Diop and Henderson

Spurs Jackson and Henderson and Nazr and anther player from the Bobcats not starting player.Could get it done for Blair and Hill

.Now assuming that team that i did not talk about surfer a major injury at SG then we could start talking to that team as well.

Detroit If we can get Hamilton and Jason Maxiell (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/jason_maxiell/index.html?nav=page) sure both players are making alt of money.But this could work us We can give away anther player or 2 to make the Salary work for both teams.And this could be a good trade for us.Maxiell long turn Hamilton short turn

76ers might agree to trade AI and do it for Jack .Because Al is making way too much money so a trade of Jack for AL and players adding from both teams might got done


As far Port goes you right it won't be easy to get Aldridge .But believe that because there best SG Roy having a Knee Issue .I would offer Port anyone but Wallace, Tyrus Thomas (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/tyrus_thomas/index.html?nav=page), Or DJ .I think for the right player Port might agree to do it.Oden true that so far he has been a bust.But sometime a change in venue can help a player alt .If we do it for Oden anther player or 2 as you said will have to come from Both teams