Even though we finally won at home can we still PLEASE get rid of Diaw

[Robertpel9]

I can't take it anymore. In the past i could scream and yell at games in frsutration at Diaw's lack of aggression, urgency, effort, etc. Now this year i sit within earshot of the bench and surrounded by players families who i assume some are Diaw's as French is heard all around me.

Diaw is so out of shape it is embarassing and his lack of effort to meet his talent which i will admit is a lot of talent is too much to bear.

TT needs to start with D Brown coming off the bench and it's that simple. Move Diaw (If anyone will take his fat ass) and bring us a center. DJ and Livingston are fine, could be better but all we really need is acenter. We still won't be deep but we will have a good core.

OR at the very least put Diaw on the bench and let him eat croissants and hit on college girls which we all know is what he cares to do anyway and put TT in the damn game so we can win at home with some more regularity

That is all

[GoBobs]

Boris has value around the league and he is valuable to us. We should only think about trading him if we get something really good.

[teej]

I totally understand why you say all that Robert. And I'll freely admit you know more about the game then I. But in watching Boris, he totally took Love out of his game when they were 1-on-1. The man who just had 31 rebounds was limited to 9 and the 'Cats were +8 on the glass. Boris is the only guy on the team who can guard the Dirks/Bargnanis/Gasols/Kamans of the world, and he does a pretty solid job on the larger 5's, too. Plus, he's good at distributing and honestly, so far this year he's tried really hard. I know he doesn't look like it, and he is wayyyy too fat to be professional about it, but he's too valuable to this team to be benched.

[Robertpel9]

For his size i agree he has done a very solid job in general defending. I don't propose benching him and giving him no minutes while he is on the team but i think more of his minutes should go to TT and perhaps Diaw would get some motivation to "bring it" more often

HOW can someone who plays basketball for a living and even played on the French national team this summer stay this out of shape. I do 30-40 mins of exercise 4 times a week and am in better physical apperance than him. If i still balled like in college i'd tone up and actually look like an athlete in a month tops. What is this guy eating at night

I would like to see him traded, i agree he has value around the league, i wish we could take that value and get something we need in return. We used to be VERY thin at the 4 spot. TT and D brown can hold that spot down quite nicely. There has to be a package that gives us a true 5 which is what we ar emissing and is why Boris has to defend other teams centers

[teej]

HOW can someone who plays basketball for a living and even played on the French national team this summer stay this out of shape. I do 30-40 mins of exercise 4 times a week and am in better physical apperance than him. If i still balled like in college i'd tone up and actually look like an athlete in a month tops. What is this guy eating at night


It probably has something to do with him owning a restaurant and part of Suite. He's a partyboy for sure (just look up pics of him with drunk chicks when he was in PHX) and between boozing and eating french food, it's not hard to see.

[K!NG Wacko]

I literally saw his ass huffing and puffing 5 mins into the first quarter. He looks like me on the court after 5 years of no organized ball. He does do somethings that go unappreciated like defense, boxing out and passing. He could be so much better if he was in shape and played with intensity.

Also, Kwame looked goooood on defense slapping those shots away. He's going to allow us sit Diaw's tired ass more and take Diop completely out of rotation.

I agree with Tyrus getting more minutes. He has only avg 20 mins on his career which is kind of strange. He gives our bench a burst of energy every night and I love to see him in the lineup that finishes the game. He is the perfect long-term Diaw replacement and D.Brown also brings it.

[Chef]

I literally saw his ass huffing and puffing 5 mins into the first quarter. He looks like me on the court after 5 years of no organized ball. He does do somethings that go unappreciated like defense, boxing out and passing. He could be so much better if he was in shape and played with intensity.

Also, Kwame looked goooood on defense slapping those shots away. He's going to allow us sit Diaw's tired ass more and take Diop completely out of rotation.

I agree with Tyrus getting more minutes. He has only avg 20 mins on his career which is kind of strange. He gives our bench a burst of energy every night and I love to see him in the lineup that finishes the game. He is the perfect long-term Diaw replacement and D.Brown also brings it.

yes the blocks of kwame stood out but so did him getting abused by Darko. Darko?

[Toocool]

Diaw last year he was bull crap. This year, no. He is carrying more love fat than we would like, but he is by no means someone massively inflated aka Glen Davis. He does lack aggression, drive and motivation to win but he is a pure professional. He go out and do his thing, and he's putting up good numbers. He's working hard on D, although his vertical is much to be desired and he's taking open jumpers and hitting them. He's also passing well.

Can't believe I'm defending Diaw, but I think your e-hate for Boris isn't relevant. Compared to who he was last year, he's far better this year. I do prefer for TT to get another 5-10 mins minimum however.

[CatNation]

I thought Boris has done a much better job of being aggressive so far this year. He's not passing up those wide open shots as much.

[Plowright]

I agree with everything in Teej's first post. If we get an injury, at ANY position, Diaw can fill in for us. That is an absolute god-send for a small franchise like ours. Also UPS is a better 3 than 4, he would get destroyed by boozer/Griffin in the post. Do we need to trade Diaw no... However if the right offer comes along then, well its the right offer so i would take it

[Pepperz]

I see everybody is on the same page with Boris. He is a versatile player that can fill any position from the 1 to the 5 which is very important for our team. He has taken a step in the right direction compared to last year. I know if the RIGHT trade comes along we wont mind trading hi but untill then, we are just gong to keep doing what we are doing with him this year.

[Robertpel9]

I am still not on the same page. Yes he has gotten a LITTLE better about stepping up his shot taking and defense but is still under utilizing his talents by a wide margin.

I am not saying he sucks, I actually think he is about as talented as anyone on the roster. I am saying that his lack of drive and effort disgusts me and he is taking away minutes from people that are more effective. IF we had a legitimate 5 he would not be necessary. Because we do not he is necessary right now but if a trade came along to plug our gaps and caused us to lose Diaw i would welcome it with open arms.

Small ball is not going to work when we get deeper into the season against any teams with true legitimate size. We have very athletic players that can keep up in the rebounding dept and running with middle sized teams, any team with real big guys on it will present matchup challenges that really hurt us

[Chef]

I am still not on the same page. Yes he has gotten a LITTLE better about stepping up his shot taking and defense but is still under utilizing his talents by a wide margin.

I am not saying he sucks, I actually think he is about as talented as anyone on the roster. I am saying that his lack of drive and effort disgusts me and he is taking away minutes from people that are more effective. IF we had a legitimate 5 he would not be necessary. Because we do not he is necessary right now but if a trade came along to plug our gaps and caused us to lose Diaw i would welcome it with open arms.

Small ball is not going to work when we get deeper into the season against any teams with true legitimate size. We have very athletic players that can keep up in the rebounding dept and running with middle sized teams, any team with real big guys on it will present matchup challenges that really hurt us

you mean like the celtics, magic, bulls, bucks, hawks? it's not like those are the teams we would have to beat to get out of the first round or anything.

[Robertpel9]

BINGO actually i think we have a better chance of beating the heat consistently than a bulk of the teams you mentioned

[Ghost Kat]

I am not saying he sucks


If you wont I will

[BRNC]

He is the least dependable guy on this team...no one knows if Boris or "Doris" will show up for the game...he appears to have no respect for the game or his teammates since he makes no effort to get into any kind of BB condition...

I give him credit for taking most shots he should take this year but any reasonable trade that comes our way that gets him out of here...I'm all for it...

[DY_nasty]

I just wish Tyrus wasn't so sporadic. The guy can produce when he's on the court, but he just makes so many mistakes and dumb fouls that its hard to justify keeping him out there at times.

And I like what Boris has been doing this year for the most part. Most of my beef with him comes from what he does once he gets the ball. Off-ball, defense, and rebounding... he's be great this year. Arguably one of the most consistent guys on the team right now.

[BRNC]

Boris has the lowest efficiency rating of the four starters averaging 30+ minutes...+12.82...and is only slightly better than Nazr (who is being used for match-ups) at +11.64 for 18.9 minutes of PT...

Boris has a per of 11.3 (well below NBA average of 15) vs. the 13.3 (next lowest of the starters) for S. Jackson....the other three starters (including Nazr) have a per over 15 (the league average)...

I think it would be a major stretch to claim "Doris" as our most consistent player...least consistent I could go with...

addition: Before anyone asks I'll add TT...his efficiency rating is 14.5 and his per is 15.8...but I'm still not convinced because of his tendency to make bone-headed fouls...so I don't know if these are legit since he's not getting 30+ minutes of PT...

[Demon DeaCat]

Boris' effort is often called into question by his detractors. I think we have to be careful trying to assess a player's level of effort/desire simply based on his court demeanor. Not every guy is going to be over the top emotional like Jax, and the fact that Boris isn't so doesn't mean he doesn't care. I think a more accurate gauge of his effort is his defensive prowess. Defense is 90% effort, and Boris is widely touted for his ability to defend. There's no way he would be able to defend the likes of Dirk, Dwight etc. at his size and have any measure of success with a half-hearted effort. In fairness, I don't know if we can ask much more than what he's given us this year. He's been a pretty consistent 3rd option offensively, as well as a reliable defender, ball handler, distributor. He could probably do a better job on the boards, but on the whole, he's a solid contributor. I agree that we should entertain the possibility of trading him if it makes sense, as we should with anyone on the roster, but I think his value to our team is apparent. To those who remain displeased, I would ask, specifically, what areas of his game do you feel are deficient?

[BRNC]

^^^^^^^See above DeaCat...

[Demon DeaCat]

BRNC, didn't see your post before I posted mine, and I appreciate that analysis. It's certainly more thoughtful than the typical "he sucks" "he's fat" "he's lazy" variety that we normally see. The only problem I have with using PER as the crux of the argument against Boris is that it, and other strictly statistics-based analyses, don't really capture the value of a player like him. Two of his greatest attributes, defense and passing, are not factored in. With his ability to see the floor, Boris is often the guy making the pass that leads to the pass that leads to the basket. These "hockey" assists don't show up in PER, nor does the fact that he held Dwight Howard in check in the 4th quarter.

[BRNC]

DeaCat...I agree and actually I take stats with "a grain of salt"...I was more concerned with the "most consistent" statement and for that eff+per is "fairly" indicative of what a players is doing for their team...but I'm also a bigger believer in the "eye-ball" test and "Doris" has never passed that one (in all of his NBA career) with me...the guy has a great deal of talent but IMO he will always be one of those players that "could have been better"...I think it is a damned shame he won't take any conditioning seriously...or at least he gives that appearance every year...and it hurts him as a player and his team...

[jdub28]

DeaCat...I agree and actually I take stats with "a grain of salt"...I was more concerned with the "most consistent" statement and for that eff+per is "fairly" indicative of what a players is doing for their team...but I'm also a bigger believer in the "eye-ball" test and "Doris" has never passed that one (in all of his NBA career) with me...the guy has a great deal of talent but IMO he will always be one of those players that "could have been better"...I think it is a damned shame he won't take any conditioning seriously...or at least he gives that appearance every year...and it hurts him as a player and his team...

Is this officially called Lamar Odom Syndrome?

[teej]

Is this officially called Lamar Odom Syndrome?

I would've gone with JaMarcus Russell syndrome, but Lamar for the NBA version works.

They're actually very similar. Neither has made an All-Star team even though they have more than enough talent to be a #1 option, both are more concerned with the benefits of being an NBA player than actually playing, they make around the same amount of money, both can play all positions at least in an emergency, are best as swing-forwards (SF-PF) but are able to play the 5 well on defense, and the 2 well on offense. Neither have truly quantifiable value but neither are consistent, either. Both are best as 6th men but prefer to start. So that's a pretty good comparison.

[BlockParty]

Perspective is important....is he more valuable than Diop and Najera combined? because he's less expensive and only takes up 1 roster spot.

Our problem is not Diaw, it's turnovers mainly and distant from turnovers is the lack of consistent production from our Center position. (which we didn't have last season either).

[G Wuh Wuh Wuh Wallace]

http://phoenix.fanster.com/wp-content/uploads/image_cache///suns/wp-content/uploads/07-08/dirty_boris.jpg

He can cover 3 at a time.

[teej]

They aren't even that hot, that's what I don't get. And they're probably all older than him.

[TheBeagle]

Boris' effort is often called into question by his detractors. I think we have to be careful trying to assess a player's level of effort/desire simply based on his court demeanor. Not every guy is going to be over the top emotional like Jax, and the fact that Boris isn't so doesn't mean he doesn't care. I think a more accurate gauge of his effort is his defensive prowess. Defense is 90% effort, and Boris is widely touted for his ability to defend. There's no way he would be able to defend the likes of Dirk, Dwight etc. at his size and have any measure of success with a half-hearted effort. In fairness, I don't know if we can ask much more than what he's given us this year. He's been a pretty consistent 3rd option offensively, as well as a reliable defender, ball handler, distributor. He could probably do a better job on the boards, but on the whole, he's a solid contributor. I agree that we should entertain the possibility of trading him if it makes sense, as we should with anyone on the roster, but I think his value to our team is apparent. To those who remain displeased, I would ask, specifically, what areas of his game do you feel are deficient? Good stuff! Also, for a team that is sorely lacking in leadership and communication, Boris is probably the most communicative. During deadballs and coming out of timeouts he's most always double checking with Jack or Tyrus or whomever each other's assignment. Plus he plays a good cheerleader when he's on the bench, encouraging his mates. Then there's the fact he's our best post player offensively and defensively. Whereas Nazr will always go with a turnaround jumper out of the post, Boris actually uses his big ass to gain ground and continue to the basket with his mini hook without getting blocked (now if only Boris could teach Tyrus and the rest of frontcourt how to play with back to the basket). And doughy as he may be, he still plays 30+ minutes and never misses a game, so he must be doing something right.

Dude definitely has his faults and I'd be fine with trading him away, but it would have to be a damn good deal, or we at least have a damn good deal in place, a la a three way trade.

If none of these arguments stand up, then how about his ass pass in the 3rd against the Wolves last night? I mean, who else but Boris could pass the ball with his ass? Huh? That's what I thought.

[davcbow]

ILBIT Larry knows what he is doing...If there was a "good" true center out there he would try to get him... apparently there isn't one available... :)

[Toocool]

They aren't even that hot, that's what I don't get. And they're probably all older than him.

You deny the amazing love fats that make up Boris Diaw. There's a reason why that woman's arm is in a sling.

[Absinthe]

It's like I stated in the other thread, he's not worth trading. Letting his contract come off the books is the best thing they can do with him.