If the playoffs started today: 2010-2011 edition

[ziggy]

Yep, this thread already :biggrin:

If the playoffs started today, we would be 11th in the east and lottery bound. BUT we are only 1.5 games out of 8th and I find it hard to believe that we can play this bad for the remainder of the season. In addition to that, Cleveland at 8 at Detroit at 9 are both horrible and both of these teams should start sliding real soon.

No need for panic and despair just yet.

[ammofan]

Melo will save us when we get him......

[teej]

No excuse to miss the playoffs, which is MJ's goal. Hell, there's no reason this team shouldn't be the #6 seed. Then again, there was no excuse to lose last night.

[Toocool]

If the playoffs started today, we're stuffed.
Simple as that, no sugar coating since we're playing extremely inconsistent.
Until this team is able to get somewhere consistently, we ain't going anywhere.

[Proudiddy]

Hard to believe Detroit was 0-5 or 0-6 to start the season and we gave them their first win... Now they are ahead of us. Something really does need to change with this team.

BTW, we traded away our first round pick for this coming draft right?

[Toocool]

Hard to believe Detroit was 0-5 or 0-6 to start the season and we gave them their first win... Now they are ahead of us. Something really does need to change with this team.

BTW, we traded away our first round pick for this coming draft right?

I'm really crap at this and I may be wrong, but I believe (but am not certain) that it's gone to Chicago from the TT trade.

[TheBeagle]

I'm really crap at this and I may be wrong, but I believe (but am not certain) that it's gone to Chicago from the TT trade.I'm no good at the GM side of things either, but I think that's the '12 draft, not the upcoming one; we should be good to go this year.

[BlockParty]

We have this year's (2011) #1 pick. You can't trade away your #1 pick in two consecutive years and Denver got our #1 pick this last summer in repayment for Ajinca. Because of that rule, Chicago has to wait until 2012 to get our #1 pick for TTime.

Denver sent that pick (which was #16th overall to Portland who sent it to Minnesota with other consideration for Luke Babbitt)

[Toocool]

Well, atleast I knew it was from the Tyrus Thomas trade. Kinda expected to be wrong, hence all the disclaimers :biggrin:

[teej]

Yeah, we can only trade this year's pick after the draft. Which, depending on who the new coach is and how the season plays out, could happen as a salary dump...

[spectre]

Yep, this thread already :biggrin:

If the playoffs started today, we would be 11th in the east and lottery bound. BUT we are only 1.5 games out of 8th and I find it hard to believe that we can play this bad for the remainder of the season. In addition to that, Cleveland at 8 at Detroit at 9 are both horrible and both of these teams should start sliding real soon.

No need for panic and despair just yet.

You know the kicker? Going by SOS (Strength of Schedule) we're at 23rd...meaning we've had the 7th easiest schedule to date.

Considering that we're struggling to beat the teams we should be beating I'll admit I'm panicking a little.

[ohara831]

Spectre, if anyone needed a reality check, that fact you just gave was it. Great find!

[BIGCatBobcat]

I went through this on the NASCAR, with the "points if the race ended right now" I hate it! I hate the "if the Playoffs started today" they don't start today, tomorrow or next week, they start in April!

[ziggy]

I went through this on the NASCAR, with the "points if the race ended right now" I hate it! I hate the "if the Playoffs started today" they don't start today, tomorrow or next week, they start in April!

But if they DID start today, we'd be tied for 9th and 1 slot out of the playoffs :biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:

[ziggy]

As crazy as it is to talk about playoffs as poorly as the Cats have been playing, Amazingly we are 1 game out of the 8 seed.

[Dcarnys]

As crazy as it is to talk about playoffs as poorly as the Cats have been playing, Amazingly we are 1 game out of the 8 seed.

Thank you Eastern Conference.

[adam187]

At this moment, we would be the 8th seed!

[ohara831]

http://espn.go.com/nba/standings/_/group/2

Just look at this crap. We are in 8th place!

Edit: But I just noticed something. We are 3 games our of 7th, but only 2.5 from being dead last. This is like walking the high wire without a net.

[Demon DeaCat]

Edit: But I just noticed something. We are 3 games our of 7th, but only 2.5 from being dead last. This is like walking the high wire without a net.

This is a good observation and should be cause for concern. With so much congestion in the standings and little reason to think there will be much separation between teams 7-15, tie-breakers will be critical. With us having already dropped games to Mil, Det, Phi, and Ind, our playoff hopes could be in peril if we don't start taking care of business against some of these lower-tier conference opponenets.

[ohara831]

http://espn.go.com/nba/standings/_/group/2

It can start getting real ugly soon.

[Woodsy23]

http://espn.go.com/nba/standings/_/group/2

It can start getting real ugly soon.

honestly, we will be scrapping with New Jersey at the bottom of the pile come the end of the season unless a miracle occurs.

[rsxnova]

honestly, we will be scrapping with New Jersey at the bottom of the pile come the end of the season unless a miracle occurs.

bottom of the pile > 12th pick

Just saying.

[Woodsy23]

bottom of the pile > 12th pick

Just saying.

bet thats what the nets were saying 6 months ago.

but no seriously, no one wants to come last. but either we play the young'uns and risk tanking it or play 0.333 with our past-it has-beens getting minutes every night stopping the progression of the few bright sparks we have in our team. we're in a pretty sh!t situation either way you look at it.

[rsxnova]

bet thats what the nets were saying 6 months ago.

but no seriously, no one wants to come last. but either we play the young'uns and risk tanking it or play 0.333 with our past-it has-beens getting minutes every night stopping the progression of the few bright sparks we have in our team. we're in a pretty sh!t situation either way you look at it.

I agree. Play the young guys and hope to god we have some talent.

[ohara831]

http://espn.go.com/nba/standings/_/group/2

Slip sliding away.

[teej]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gqT6En2O78

"Cause I'm freeeeeeee, freeee falllinggggg"

Ladies and Gentlemen, your 2010-2011 Charlotte Bobcats!

[ziggy]

This is totally absurd, but we are currently just 2 games out of #8. With the way that the Cats have been playing, it feels like we should be 15 games out of playoff contention at this time.

[ohara831]

This is totally absurd, but we are currently just 2 games out of #8. With the way that the Cats have been playing, it feels like we should be 15 games out of playoff contention at this time.

http://espn.go.com/nba/standings/_/group/2

My gosh, you are right. Well, 2.5 out, but still, it boggles the mind. Oh Ziggy, who are we kidding? We suck.

[cls77]

As of today at 10 - 19 we are only TWO games out of a playoff spot.

God Bless the Eastern Conference!

Keep the faith.

[The Prodigy]

To be honest with you, I really would rather not make the playoffs. I want a shot at a top 5 pick.

[cls77]

And take who? By the looks of it right now the top 5 picks in the 2011 draft will all be forwards, which is the last thing we need on the team. Why tank the season for that? This team needs to start winning again for the fan base, and the players we have right now are not going to get any younger. Win now.

[ammofan]

To be honest with you, I really would rather not make the playoffs. I want a shot at a top 5 pick.

Heck no forget that! WTF

[BlockParty]

To be honest with you, I really would rather not make the playoffs. I want a shot at a top 5 pick.

With our luck in the draft and making picks if we finished with the 5th worst record, we'd end up with the 6th or 7th pick AND we use it on a guy that otherwise still would've been available late in the first round.

We need to win now

[Ghost Kat]

Alittle to much Panthers fever to early in the Bobcats season. No need to tank. Making the playoffs two years in a row and with a coaching change means way more. Its not like automatic superstars are in the draft and this is more about the team then one player. To be honest I'm happy with a 8th spot if thats what we get. Even if we get destroyed again.

[cls77]

Bucks lost tonight which means with a win over Cleveland we will only be 1 game out of the 8th spot.

Pacers lost as well, 7th spot will be 2-3 games away depending on the outcome of the Wizards game.

[teej]

Who would you guys rather play, Boston or Miami?

Not that that's really a question, so let's get the 7 seed. At least the media will be all over the place, and if we won a game against the Heat, everyone would love us.

[TheBeagle]

Alittle to much Panthers fever to early in the Bobcats season. No need to tank. Making the playoffs two years in a row and with a coaching change means way more. Its not like automatic superstars are in the draft and this is more about the team then one player. To be honest I'm happy with a 8th spot if thats what we get. Even if we get destroyed again. Yeah. Plus there's no one in college basketball that has remotely enamored me to the point of wanting to tank. Maybe Sullinger? Still too many questions even with him, and like BP says with our luck we wouldn't get a high enough pick to even draft him or someone better that comes along to risk it.

Even without the coaching change, we would've contended for the 8th to the bitter end.....we have a playoff-caliber roster, it's just they haven't played like they care. With Paul, maybe things will change, but I still hope the FO is looking to move pieces to improve the team (coughcough moveJack coughcough). Regardless, blowing the roster up or not, there's no reason not to contend for the playoffs.

[DCAWFAN]

If this new offense is for real. Looking at our schedule i can see us being at or over .500 by the all star break.

[Dcarnys]

Quite honestly with the coaching change, I've veiwed this as playoffs or bust right now. We atleast have a pick this year and a staff willing to work with them.

[BlockParty]

Who would you guys rather play, Boston or Miami?


Miami no question. Boston is better coached and has more depth. Generally, we have matched up well against Lebron...not so much against the 3 point shooting of Pierce and Allen.

[ohara831]

http://espn.go.com/nba/standings/_/group/2

Just 1 game out of 8th. And Silas has the guys playing well.

[ohara831]

http://espn.go.com/nba/standings?group=2

Still just 1 game out. Unreal. But we are going to need some help if we are to go anywhere. Gotta get some help.

[BlockParty]

we need a 3-2 record on the upcoming west coast trip @ SAC/PHX back to back then GSW/LAC back to back, then UTA and that's all in 1 week. In perspective, we have 5 road games in all of February.

[ohara831]

http://espn.go.com/nba/standings/_/group/2

.5 out of 8th and 1 from 7th. Getting there.

[ammofan]

http://espn.go.com/nba/standings/_/group/2

.5 out of 8th and 1 from 7th. Getting there.

Pretty awesome!

[ohara831]

http://espn.go.com/nba/standings/_/group/2

Tied for 8th! Keep it going guys!

[ohara831]

http://espn.go.com/nba/standings/_/group/2

Philly drops from the tie for 8th. Yes!

[davcbow]

Its beginning to look very interesting... this road trip will show us where we stand as a team... :)

[BIGCatBobcat]

I actually mentioned the half a game out of 8th in the Wizards blog....at this point in the season i actually did it after all my talk...shameful

[Deadshot]

Realistically, I think the top five for the east are set for the most part. No matter how lousy the Hawks play, they are still better than the majority of the remaining teams. One team I really expect to see a push from is the Bucks. They've battled injuries to key players on and off all season, and have been performing well against competitive ball clubs as of late. They are 2-3 in January, but they lost to the Heat twice (with one being in OT) and the Magic once. Both the Heat and the Magic have won 9 straight by the way.

I expect the Knicks to continue to slowly slip back into the standings. While their early season run was impressive, they had the benefit of one of the weakest schedules in the first half. Combine this with the fact that Felton and Amare are logging ridiculous minutes and the second half Knicks could slip to the 7th or 8th spot in the playoff race soon. Perhaps MIL and NYK will even swap places. I don't see PHI, DET, or TOR even being a threat, so I'm not going to really address these teams. I also don't really worry about the Nets with Melo, seeing as they still only have 10 wins and would have to dominate the second half.

My hopes are that the Pacers can hang on to a late spot, but their recent 6-13 run doesn't help the cause much. While I have been extremely dissatisfied with the decisions/rotations of Jim O'Brien, Granger and Hibbert have also been horrible as of late. Hibbert started the season really well but has been shooting something like 35% since Dec. 1. Indy will struggle against Dallas and Chicago in the next 2 games, but the 4 games following that are very winnable. Regardless, tonight's win against Philly was huge (and I think O'Brien actually recognized this, playing Collison, Granger, and Dunleavy big minutes).

The Bobcats recent play has been encouraging (despite injuries), and barring it doesn't knock Indy out of the playoffs, I would love to see them make it as well. Before you guys head out west later this month you play Philly twice in the same week, and those games could end up being really important (and very winnable as well). Iggy has underperformed this year and has battled injuries along the way, and this seems to be a good time to have to play them.

Anyway, those are some of my scattered thoughts. Hope I didn't put anyone to sleep...

[ohara831]

That was some good analysis Deadshot. I think Charlotte and the Pacers will be there right to the end fighting for #7 and #8. But I dont see NY struggling too much to stay aheaad of Charlotte or Indiana. I like the talent they have started to build around.

[Ghost Kat]

Tied for the 8th spot now right?? The bucks play ATL tonight and the Cats have a shot at beating Da Bulls so even with LB trying to tank the season we still have a shot.

[ammofan]

Tied for the 8th spot now right?? The bucks play ATL tonight and the Cats have a shot at beating Da Bulls so even with LB trying to tank the season we still have a shot.

We will make the playoffs. We have much more than a shot. We are one small trade away from being a solid squad right now...

[WarioVsMooChicken]

If Wallace can actually make this team better or if we can trade him for some really nice pieces, we might be able to do more damage than previously thought.

[Ezell]

Only thing i can say right now is
Touche Eastern Conference ..... touche

[Deadshot]

Excuse my ignorance, but do a large majority of Bobcats fans want to see Wallace traded? I remember reading a thread on another forum earlier in the season which hinted at the fact that him and Jax were definitely on the table. Granted, the number of Bobcats games I have seen this season is probably only a handful or so, but I would think that he would make them a better team overall. And as far as I can see, he's not stunting anyone's development.

[ammofan]

Excuse my ignorance, but do a large majority of Bobcats fans want to see Wallace traded? I remember reading a thread on another forum earlier in the season which hinted at the fact that him and Jax were definitely on the table. Granted, the number of Bobcats games I have seen this season is probably only a handful or so, but I would think that he would make them a better team overall. And as far as I can see, he's not stunting anyone's development.

This should be discussed in the Trade Discussion thread but whatever.....Anyway, I think the majority of Bobcats fans DO NOT wnat Wallace to be traded, BUT all of us want the team to be in the best position to win. If that means we have to deal Wallace then yes we will let him go. Personally, I really appreciate everything he has doen for the franchise and all but I would trade him. He isnt someone we can count on as far as production on the floor goes, or staying on the floor and away from injuries for that matter. I would deal him for a good center and 2 guard. Dream trade would be for Melo, but I would settle for JR Smith and Nene!

[Ghost Kat]

Excuse my ignorance, but do a large majority of Bobcats fans want to see Wallace traded?

Hell no...Well atleast I don't. I'll let others answer for themselves. Capt. Jack is on a 5 game 20 pt streak. He complains way to much. God, he makes so much noise after every shot in the lane. Makes it sound like he's getting raped. If we hope to make the playoffs ya'll better pray DJ stays heathly. To be honest every other player has a back up. Livingston playing 35 mins the rest of the season, lord help us

[BlockParty]

I think the majority of the fans want GW playing at last year's level, and have a little bird on their shoulder chirping away that one of these days he's really going to get seriously injuried and it might be smart to move him prior to that.

I lean towards wanting the 2009-10 GW until his contract is up.

[Ezell]

I lean towards wanting the 2009-10 GW until his contract is up.
this^
10char

[davcbow]

I feel about like ammofan.. Id love to keep him but if the perfect trade that would make us better were to happen then so be it. :)

[ohara831]

http://espn.go.com/nba/standings/_/group/2

Sole possession of 8th, and moving up quick!

[davcbow]

http://espn.go.com/nba/standings/_/group/2

Sole possession of 8th, and moving up quick!

Hell yeah.... Go Bobcats!!!!!!!!!!! :cool:

[ziggy]

http://espn.go.com/nba/standings/_/group/2

Sole possession of 8th, and moving up quick!

This all seemed impossible 1 month ago with the sorry efforts that we were seeing on the court under LB.

Go Bobcats!

[ammofan]

http://espn.go.com/nba/standings/_/group/2

Sole possession of 8th, and moving up quick!

Oooooohhhhh Yeaaaahhhhhhhhhh! Bring on Boston!

[ohara831]

http://espn.go.com/nba/standings/_/group/2

Well, 8th did not last long.

[ammofan]

http://espn.go.com/nba/standings/_/group/2

Well, 8th did not last long.

We shall be back tomorrow!

[ohara831]

http://espn.go.com/nba/standings/_/group/2

Oh well. This was one we could have won. A 4th qtr. collapse.

[teej]

Must win on Monday.

[ammofan]

Must win on Monday.

Yup! Big big game....

[ohara831]

http://espn.go.com/nba/standings/_/group/2

Well, still in 9th, but I dont have a good feeling about things right now.

[Carolina Swagger]

I think we still have a great shot! Gerard Wallace is a force to be reckon with! DJ Augustin is tearin' it apart as well.
We have had a few bumps along the way to begin with, but if the second half of our season is strong, we most def. have a shot at the playoffs!
LETS GO BOBCATS!

[teej]

Gerard Wallace is a force to be reckon with!

...On the Injured List...

[ohara831]

http://espn.go.com/nba/standings/_/group/2

Hanging in there.

[ohara831]

NOTE: If we beat Philly tonight, we will be in 7th in the East! Very big opportunity if we can take advantage of it.

[onajourney]

NOTE: If we beat Philly tonight, we will be in 7th in the East! Very big opportunity if we can take advantage of it.

Plus, tonight is a must-win as far as tiebreakers go. By my count, we are 0-7 against Philadelphia, Indiana, Milwaukee and Detroit this year, and they happen to be the current 7, 8, 10 and 11 teams in the East.

[anton273]

By my count, we are 0-7 against Philadelphia, Indiana, Milwaukee and Detroit this year, and they happen to be the current 7, 8, 10 and 11 teams in the East.

1-6 we beat detroit!! altho detroit wont be in the mix come april so it doesnt really matter! We were unlucky against phillie last time should have won in regulation and we got Tyrus back n his averages against them are decent!

[davcbow]

Yeah we are due to win this one against Philly tonight @ the cablebox.... We need this win to not only try to advance in the standings but to possibly take over the 7th spot and stay ahead of Milw. that is only .5 game behind us.... Go Bobcats! :)

[ohara831]

http://espn.go.com/nba/standings/_/group/2

In 7th! But no TT for 2 months. So sad.

[ammofan]

http://espn.go.com/nba/standings/_/group/2

In 7th! But no TT for 2 months. So sad.

Sad but we can win without Tyrus. However I think making a move involving Wallace that brings us more depth will help us get into the Playoffs even more...

[davcbow]

Sad but we can win without Tyrus. However I think making a move involving Wallace that brings us more depth will help us get into the Playoffs even more...

I think that would be a mistake at this moment in time.... :)

[ohara831]

http://espn.go.com/nba/standings?group=2

Well, we jumped from 9th to 7th. Now we fall from 7th to 9th. And with the stretch in front of us, we might be ready to fall to 10th pretty soon.

[ammofan]

http://espn.go.com/nba/standings?group=2

Well, we jumped from 9th to 7th. Now we fall from 7th to 9th. And with the stretch in front of us, we might be ready to fall to 10th pretty soon.

Our schedule isnt that difficult other than the fact we are on the road.

[ohara831]

http://espn.go.com/nba/standings/_/group/2

Back into 8th without even playing

[Black]

Our schedule isnt that difficult other than the fact we are on the road.

Then we have a pleasant return home with Miami and Dallas on back to back nights, with Boston a few nights later. We better have a solid road trip.

[ohara831]

http://espn.go.com/nba/standings/_/group/2

gotta keep it rolling again tonight vs Phoenix!

[ohara831]

http://espn.go.com/nba/standings?group=2

Keeping it rolling! 2-0 to start the road trip!

[Deadshot]

If you guys could somehow work your way up to the 6th spot (which is not unreasonable seeing as Philly will cool off and NY is slumping now), I think Chicago would be a great matchup for you guys (when I say great, I mean more feasible compared to Boston, Miami, or Orlando). I was really impressed with how early Silas pressured Rose. Granted, I'm sure Chicago would adjust, but it could make for an interesting series provided you guys stay healthy and the Bulls do not (hard to tell how Noah would have effected those 2 games).

[teej]

I would enjoy a Chicago series, but I think it'd be better financially if we played Miami. As long as we don't play the Celtics, I don't care.

[Deadshot]

That's probably the first time I've ever read someone that analyzed a potential playoff series solely on what would be most profitable (and seeing as you care for the well-being of the organization, I'm not calling it senseless either). But if we were to think of it in terms of money, the possibility of winning a first round series (and I see Chicago as the only one of the top 4 teams you guys have a shot at beating in a series) would potentially produce money and interest for the second round. From what I've seen in the past, it seems like Charlotte gets excited about playoff basketball, regardless of who the opponent is (the Magic are not a big draw on the road). Also, I would say the Bulls have one of the strongest followings on the road right now behind LA, Miami, and Boston (and there was a large number of Chicago fans at the game when I went a couple of weeks ago).

[BigMike]

I would enjoy a Chicago series, but I think it'd be better financially if we played Miami. As long as we don't play the Celtics, I don't care.

Making it to the second round beating a lesser team would be far more financially beneficial then going out in 4 or 5 games to the top team. 2nd round = at LEAST 4 home sell out games + 2 rounds of TV $$

A great playoff set up for us would be:
1- Boston
2- Miami
3- Bulls
4- Orlando
5- Atlanta
6- Bobcats
7- Knicks
8- Phili

We take the bulls in 6 and then loose to the Heat in 6. Thats 6 home games and 2 rounds of TV

[The Prodigy]

A great playoff set up for us would be:
1- Boston
2- Miami
3- Bulls
4- Orlando
5- Atlanta
6- Bobcats
7- Phili
8- Portland


This is a bit more realistic:
1. Boston
2. Chicago
3. Miami
4. Orlando
5. Atlanta
6. New York
7. Charlotte
8. Philadelphia

That would put us against the Bulls, same as yours, which is a series we could absolutely win. But unlike yours, the Bobcats only have to be the 7 seed. And considering that the Knicks are currently 3 1/2 games ahead of us with a much better roster, im not so sure we could get there. Also, Chicago is only 1/2 a game behind Miami for the 2 seed.

Also, Portland isnt in the Eastern conference, and even if they were they would be the current 6 seed anyway. But I figured that was a typo anyway.

[teej]

We will not beat Chicago in a seven game series unless Rose is out. If I though we could then that'd absolutely be better than Miami.

[SWedd523]

Making it to the second round beating a lesser team would be far more financially beneficial then going out in 4 or 5 games to the top team. 2nd round = at LEAST 4 home sell out games + 2 rounds of TV $$

A great playoff set up for us would be:
1- Boston
2- Miami
3- Bulls
4- Orlando
5- Atlanta
6- Bobcats
7- Phili
8- Portland

We take the bulls in 6 and then loose to the Heat in 6. Thats 6 home games and 2 rounds of TV


Portland is in the Western Conf.

[BigMike]

Portland is in the Western Conf.

Ya it was a typo, I meant to have the Knicks as 7th and Phili 8th, no clue where my brain came up with Portland when i was typing that ;) ;)

[The Prodigy]

We will not beat Chicago in a seven game series unless Rose is out. If I though we could then that'd absolutely be better than Miami.

We are already 2-0 against the Bulls, and we could at the very least take the series 6 or 7 games. Personally, I dont think we would stand a chance against the Heat.

[Marvel]

Yeah without Noah and the 2nd game was without Booze. Other factors in Bulls favour, homecourt and Bogans in their starting lineup.

[The Prodigy]

Yeah without Noah and the 2nd game was without Booze. Other factors in Bulls favour, homecourt and Bogans in their starting lineup.
Yeah thats true, but against the Heat in the Finals they would have Haslem back and would presumably have the Big 3 healthy. Either one is going to be a tough matchup but I think the Bulls would be much easier.

[Carolina Swagger]

we have to get in the playoffs! we can get it done but we need to start playing like we have a purpose and cleaner on our plays.

[Carolina Swagger]

GOT THE W!!! :D
what uppp!

[ohara831]

http://espn.go.com/nba/standings/_/group/2

In 7th and moving up! 3-0 on this road trip to start!

[Felton for Prez]

7th seed currently. Apparently hell has frozen over.

http://espn.go.com/nba/standings/_/group/2

[davcbow]

Coach Silias has this team hitting on all cylinders.... :biggrin:

[ammofan]

Coach Silias has this team hitting on all cylinders.... :biggrin:

Im still concerned about Gerald tho......he aint doin anything.

But thats besides the point of this thread! 7th!!!!

[murphman]

One quick note. 9th place Bucks are coming into a great stretch for them. Their next 10 games are against teams with losing records and they get Brandon Jennings back next week. Bobcats can not slack up.

[Deadshot]

Despite their struggles, Indiana's next 5 are winnable as well. 2 games after that they plat the Cats :)

[adam187]

If the playoffs started today, all the match-ups would be great for fans/media:

1. Boston vs. 8. Philly: I-95 match-up of division rivals with a bunch of history between them (Dr. J vs Bird)
2. Chicago vs. 7. Charlotte: MJ the owner against his old team would be the hot storyline.
3. Miami vs. 6. New York: These teams do not like each other. Crazy energy from the fans in the games I've seen.
4. Atlanta vs. 5. Orlando: Southern Classic between division rivals.

My condolences to Midwestern Basketball, with Indiana and Milwaukee watching at home.

[Deadshot]

All of those matchups would be pretty good except Orl/Atl would put me to sleep.

[CrazyCarl139]

Why? Because Orlando would destroy them?

[Deadshot]

Yeah it would be a repeat of last year. I also saw two Magic/Hawks games in Orlando before I moved this year and it was some of the most unmotivated basketball I have ever seen in my life. I know the stakes are a little different in the playoffs, but Atlanta looks much better on paper than they actually play. They have more big men to throw at the Magic but none of them will come close to effectively playing Dwight (not even Horford). Smith should just post up on Bass or whatever forward Orlando throws at him but he will likely just chuck up threes the whole game.

[CatNation]

Hollingers playoff odds calculator still doesn't seem to think we are legit.

I'm worried about the
Miami
Boston
Dallas
@Indy

strech we have coming up. Dropping those first 3 and killing our momentum and losing in Indy could be a huge blow to our playoff hopes.

[ohara831]

http://espn.go.com/nba/standings/_/group/2

And back to 8th we go.

[Black]

At least we have a day off before each of our last two games of the road trip. We need as many wins as we can get before we head back to Charlotte.

[ohara831]

http://espn.go.com/nba/standings/_/group/2

Still in 8th. But this next stretch of games gives me a bad feeling.

[cls77]

Between the 76ers, Cats, Bucks and Pacers (7th thru 10th, respectively - I don't see any team 11th or below with a legit playoff shot) I just can't see us falling below the 8th spot. The 76ers are garbage and are bound to level out at some point, the Bucks can't stay fully healthy (Jennings, now Bogut), and with their coach recently fired the Pacers look like they are about to blow up their team for next season. As long as we keep playing at the level we are without injuries, we're going to lock a playoff spot.

[Deadshot]

The Pacers aren't looking to blow up for next year - if anything, the move was made to help salvage the playoff spot this year. If any trades are made at the deadline, it will be to acquire pieces to help the team now. Otherwise, Bird plans on having the most space available of any team in the offseason. The players were not motivated under O'Brien and now they appear to be motivated under Vogel. His substitution patterns will bring back a level of consistency to the team. I'm not saying they're going to take the world by storm, but I just wanted to point that out before you finalize your projections.

[Absinthe]

See, this is the very reason why I want the team blown up. They simply cannot compete with the likes of Boston, Miami, or Orlando and they're going to have to play against one of the three if they make the playoffs. I don't know about you guys, but winning a game or two against quality competition as an eighth seed doesn't do a thing for me.

[stun704]

See, this is the very reason why I want the team blown up. They simply cannot compete with the likes of Boston, Miami, or Orlando and they're going to have to play against one of the three if they make the playoffs. I don't know about you guys, but winning a game or two against quality competition as an eighth seed doesn't do a thing for me.
But it does a thing for the franchise, see the problem is, you're looking into the future, but not far enough into the future, if we build a bigger fanbase these next 2 seasons with playoff apperances, we could then "blow it up" in 2013, when all of our major contracts come off the books.. and we can build around, DJ, TT, Hendo, This years draft pick, and a lot of cap space.

[WAM9]

See, this is the very reason why I want the team blown up. They simply cannot compete with the likes of Boston, Miami, or Orlando and they're going to have to play against one of the three if they make the playoffs. I don't know about you guys, but winning a game or two against quality competition as an eighth seed doesn't do a thing for me.

I've said it before and I will say it again. You have to walk before you can run. We made the playoff's last year, this year I hope to make the playoffs and get a couple of wins (maybe more against Chicago). That will put us in the playoffs 2 years straight and set a precedent for the franchise. Some have been saying that a major free agent won't ever come to Charlotte. I disagree. When you are a playoff caliber team that is showing a history of making the playoffs, that helps your case a lot. MJ's presence certainly helps for the expectations.

To sum it up, I would 100% rather make the playoffs than not make the playoffs. Period. Everyone talks about the future. Well, making the playoffs helps the future of this franchise more than some late lottery pick any day of the week. Even if you get the top pick, that doesn't guarantee success. How's Milwaukee doing with Bogut (about the same as us)? How's Toronto doing with Bargnani? Not so good huh? Make the playoffs and eventually, good things will come.

[SWedd523]

In all honesty, there probably won't ever be a point in which we can compete with the contenders.

We don't have the money
We don't have the market
We don't have the history





Our best bet is to either win enough games to be an above average team that pulls in a profit, or blow it up and go with the tons of draft picks/young guys route that seems to be en vogue now. I'd be fine with either one. We're currently doing the first so until we stop, let's stay there.

[WAM9]

In all honesty, there probably won't ever be a point in which we can compete with the contenders.

We don't have the money
We don't have the market
We don't have the history





Our best bet is to either win enough games to be an above average team that pulls in a profit, or blow it up and go with the tons of draft picks/young guys route that seems to be en vogue now. I'd be fine with either one. We're currently doing the first so until we stop, let's stay there.

Based on this we should just contract then.

How do you get the history, win games and make the playoffs. Jordan said he would spend luxury tax money if he felt we were a contender. Sticking to his guns, I wouldn't spend luxury tax money on this team as currently constructed either.

My plan would be to continue to slowly improve and continue to make the playoffs. Slowly (not by giving away all our talent or picks) I would get our salary cap issues under control over the next season or 2 and then, after we have made the playoffs for 3-4 straight years, go after the bigger free agent (or 2). I think that, if played correctly, we could be a legitimate championship contender within 4 or 5 seasons.

I know that is a while but championships don't happen overnight.

[SWedd523]

The point is, there are, and only ever will be 4-5 contending teams in the league. The majority of other teams realistically have no shot unless they draft a franchise changing player. No need to be irrational about it. 25 teams don't have a fart's chance in the wind of winning the title.



We won't ever have a chance to win unless we draft a LeBron/Wade/Kobe/Dwight/Paul/Deron type of player. We just won't.

We won't ever have a chance to sign big name guys like the Celtics/Heat/Magic/TEX Teams/etc. can because we're small market and don't have a) a super star like above and b) the appeal that those other teams have



That's why we can either strive to be above average (which is totally fine because it makes MJ some money), or blow it up and suck ass until we luck (because that's all it really is--Luck) into a super star and work our way up from there................... and hope he stays.

[WAM9]

I completely understand your reasoning and don't really disagree with it in general.

Without going backwards and talking about this year only, what teams have a chance? San Antonio, Lakers, Dallas and OKC out west. I agree that OKC and Dallas are longer shots but they are definitely in it. In the East, Any of the 4 top guys could win it. Miami, Boston, Orlando and Chicago. That makes 8 teams out of 30 that have at least a decent chance in my opinion. To get even better stats, someone should look up the Vegas odds. That will be even more telling.

Last year, Cleveland had a chance for sure. Utah is always close also.

In the recent past, Phoenix, Denver, Houston and ATL have had good teams and decent runs.

Philly, NY, Detroit, Indiana, Sacramento and Portland have all either won or had strong runs over the past 25 years.

That's 20 of the 30 teams in the league that have either won or had teams decent enough to be in the conversation. With that being said, only 8 franchises have won the title over the past 30 years.

I'm not saying we are going to win the title. It would be a huge step to do so, but being in the hunt and a team that could be considered possible to win as late as April or May would be awesome.

Now, let's see...

Does that make your argument for you, or help mine? Not sure:)

[BRNC]

Wam...it does both...but in any given year (I agree with SWedd here) you're lucky to have 4-5 teams that could win it all...

I think for our franchise, the more competitive we become the better (top to bottom) we have to appeal to FAs...and I 100% agree the draft is a crap-shoot at best...

It might take Rod and MJ 3-4-5 years of turning down bad offers before other teams are convinced we will no longer trade value for garbage...it puts us at some disadvantage now (ability to make trades) but that's what I see the organization having to do to be really competitive long term...and it is also why I'm totally against "giving" away what few assets we have...we need to make the play-offs because we're in no position to blow-it-up...no other teams will give us picks because they think we're push-overs in trades...

[SWedd523]

Since my year of birth (1990), there have been 7 different champions: Lakers, Celtics, Spurs, Heat, Pistons, Bulls, Rockets. All of those teams (with DET being the outlier) have one huge thing in common--they drafted a franchise changing superstar, and through that were able to spend money to bring other players in to put them over the top

Lakers- Kobe, led to Pau, Odom, Artest, etc.
Celtics- Pierce/Rondo, led to KG, Ray, etc.
Spurs- Duncan/Parker/Ginobili, led to Horry, Bowen, etc.
Heat- Wade, led to Mourning, Walker, Shaq, Payton etc.
Bulls- MJ/Pippen, led to Rodman, Harper, Kukoc, etc.
Rockets- Hakeem, led to Clyde, Cassell, Hoorry, Smith, etc.


All of the teams you mentioned that have outside shots to win? They all drafted a superstar.

[WAM9]

Can't really argue with that so I will split hairs...

Kobe wasn't drafted by the Lakers, he was a draft day deal with the Hornets and they dealt Divac for him without ever being in rebuilding mode.

The Spurs got Duncan at #1 but the entire reason they had the #1 pick was because David Robinson was injured the previous year. They drafted Ginobli and Parker late in the draft. They were never in complete rebuilding mode.

I don't remember the exact situations that led to Wade being drafted by Miami or Rondo/Pierce being drafted by Boston. I do know that Wade was #5 overall, not #1 and that the death of Bias and (his name escapes me) led to some of the rebuilding of the Celtics. Pierce was a #10 pick and Rondo was a late 1st rounder.

Of the teams that have had the #1 pick overall, in the past 20 years, how many have won the championship? Probably just SA and that was because of an injury.

Drafting a star is clearly important but it can come in the lottery or much later and be just as effective. Having the #1 pick doesn't guarantee any type of success whatsoever.

[SWedd523]

The whole reason Charlotte picked him was to flip him to LA because they wanted Vlade. I didn't say the superstar had to be drafted first, and I didn't say tanking is the only way of getting him--though it does make it much, much easier.

#1 picks over the last 10 years:

John Wall
Blake Griffin
Derrick Rose
Greg Oden
Andrea Bargnani
Andrew Bogut
Dwight Howard
LeBron James
Yao Ming
Kwame Brown


Of those 10, I'd say 7 of them are good enough to be franchise players. It would be 8 if Oden didn't have Livingston's old knees, and Bargnani isn't BAD (21/6 this year). So that leaves Kwame as the only real bust over the last 10 years. I'll more than gladly take those chances.


Also, looking back over the last 10 years, the only "stars" not picked in the lottery have been

Tony Parker (28th, 01)
Gilbert Arenas (30th, 01)
Carlos Boozer (34th, 02)
Danny Granger (17th, 05)
Monta Ellis (40th, 05)
Rajon Rondo (21st, 06)

That's a 1.3% chance of getting a star if you don't have a lottery pick. So while it's possible, it's unlikely

[Deadshot]

This thread is just starting to make me laugh lol. Drafting Kobe (which the Hornets did in 96) didn't bring those players in directly. Sure, they wanted to play with him, but we're talking about decisions that happened almost a decade after he was drafted. And Pau was a gift from Jerry West...that really doesn't count. Not to mention that there are rumblings that Artest wants out of LA now.



I don't remember the exact situations that led to Wade being drafted by Miami or Rondo/Pierce being drafted by Boston. I do know that Wade was #5 overall, not #1 and that the death of Bias and (his name escapes me) led to some of the rebuilding of the Celtics. Pierce was a #10 pick and Rondo was a late 1st rounder.


I'm assuming you're talking about Reggie Lewis who died in 1993. I really don't think Bias had anything to do with the rebuilding though. The 86' Celtics are regarded by some as the best team ever, and he would have been an addition to their squad for the 87 season. They ended up going to the Finals that year but they didn't win. His impact would have been more immediate, as he could have logged some minutes to help keep McHale/Walton/Parish healthy throughout the duration of the season. But to help your argument, the Celtics had decent teams in the mid-2000's, a handful of years after Pierce was drafted (with Antoine Walker and even Gary Payton one year). They didn't come close to a title before 2008 though, when they cleaned house to get Garnett and Allen. And drafting Rondo did nothing to bring those guys to Boston like one poster suggested lol.

The Spurs might have won one title because of drafting Duncan directly, but Parker and Manu were steals and panned out much better than anyone projected (I believe Manu was drafted in 99 but didn't come to the league until 2002...doing this all from memory right now).

I don't think I'm even going to touch the Bulls lol. You're talking about the greatest player to play the game, implying that one comes along every draft. And Pippen would have been a viable #1 on any other team, but him being drafted (the Sonics by the way...) was not a result of Jordan bringing him in. But I digress...I said I wouldn't touch the Bulls so I must stop now.

I'm just going to be blunt now and say something that most of you know but aren't going to like (and I promise I'm not trying to be a troll here)...

The Bobcats suck at drafting. What difference is a high pick going to make in an already weak draft when many players are talking about holding out (due to the lockout) anyway? And if you try and tell me that MJ didn't draft the players from past years, I will agree, and then tell you that MJ sucks at drafting too lol. Kwame Brown anyone?

Just play to make the playoffs. There is always a good steal or two in the latter portions of the first round (one of which you named, Rondo). You just have to get lucky on one, that's all.

[Deadshot]

Of those 10, I'd say 7 of them are good enough to be franchise players. It would be 8 if Oden didn't have Livingston's old knees, and Bargnani isn't BAD (21/6 this year). So that leaves Kwame as the only real bust over the last 10 years. I'll more than gladly take those chances.


Also, looking back over the last 10 years, the only "stars" not picked in the lottery have been

Tony Parker (28th, 01)
Gilbert Arenas (30th, 01)
Carlos Boozer (34th, 02)
Danny Granger (17th, 05)
Monta Ellis (40th, 05)
Rajon Rondo (21st, 06)

That's a 1.3% chance of getting a star if you don't have a lottery pick. So while it's possible, it's unlikely

Looks like we posted at the same time so I will make this brief. First, you aren't going to have the #1 pick so this almost seems pointless. And the #1 pick you mentioned was a bust was drafted by the same guy who will be drafting for you now lol. Also, I know its not in the last ten years but I wanted to throw Michael Olawakandi out there as well.

There are many players drafted outside of the lottery that are capable players though (even if they aren't stars). Keep in mind that a lot of lottery picks don't really pan out either.

[SWedd523]

Looks like we posted at the same time so I will make this brief. First, you aren't going to have the #1 pick so this almost seems pointless. And the #1 pick you mentioned was a bust was drafted by the same guy who will be drafting for you now lol. Also, I know its not in the last ten years but I wanted to throw Michael Olawakandi out there as well.

There are many players drafted outside of the lottery that are capable players though (even if they aren't stars). Keep in mind that a lot of lottery picks don't really pan out either.


1. The whole point of my argument is superstar, franchise player level talent that can be built around to win a title. No player outside the lottery has (at least in the last ten years) been built around as a franchise player. Whereas, at least HALF of the last ten number one picks has.

2. I'm not even talking about the Bobcats in specific, I'm talking about teams looking to be title contenders in general. I know the Bobcats won't get the first pick, the highest we can hope for at this point is 13 or 14.


3. Kwame was the consensus #1 pick. If any other team had the first pick, they'd have taken Kwame. Using him as an example that MJ is a bad drafter is incredibly misinformed and getting old, quickly. lol.

[Deadshot]

Of those 10, I'd say 7 of them are good enough to be franchise players. It would be 8 if Oden didn't have Livingston's old knees, and Bargnani isn't BAD (21/6 this year). So that leaves Kwame as the only real bust over the last 10 years. I'll more than gladly take those chances.


Also, looking back over the last 10 years, the only "stars" not picked in the lottery have been

Tony Parker (28th, 01)
Gilbert Arenas (30th, 01)
Carlos Boozer (34th, 02)
Danny Granger (17th, 05)
Monta Ellis (40th, 05)
Rajon Rondo (21st, 06)

That's a 1.3% chance of getting a star if you don't have a lottery pick. So while it's possible, it's unlikely

Looks like we posted at the same time so I will make this brief. First, you aren't going to have the #1 pick so this almost seems pointless. And the #1 pick you mentioned was a bust was drafted by the same guy who will be drafting for you now lol. Also, I know its not in the last ten years but I wanted to throw Michael Olawakandi out there as well.

There are many players drafted outside of the lottery that are capable players though (even if they aren't stars). Keep in mind that a lot of lottery picks don't really pan out either.

[ohara831]

http://espn.go.com/nba/standings/_/group/2

Still in 8th.

[davcbow]

The next 3-4 games will tell us alot about where the Cats stand as far as the playoffs go... :cool:

[WAM9]

The whole reason Charlotte picked him was to flip him to LA because they wanted Vlade. I didn't say the superstar had to be drafted first, and I didn't say tanking is the only way of getting him--though it does make it much, much easier.

#1 picks over the last 10 years:

John Wall
Blake Griffin
Derrick Rose
Greg Oden
Andrea Bargnani
Andrew Bogut
Dwight Howard
LeBron James
Yao Ming
Kwame Brown


Of those 10, I'd say 7 of them are good enough to be franchise players. It would be 8 if Oden didn't have Livingston's old knees, and Bargnani isn't BAD (21/6 this year). So that leaves Kwame as the only real bust over the last 10 years. I'll more than gladly take those chances.

If a frog had wings, he wouldn't bump his ass...

You are going to look at this list and say that getting the #1 pick guarantees anything?

Kwame and the Washington franchise in general?
Yao Ming sure took Houston to the promised land...
Andrew Bogut is good and all but when is the last time Milwaukee competed for anything past a first round exit?
Bargnani and Oden?

Of this list, I only see 4 guys (Lebron, Dwight, Rose and Griffin) that are guarantees of franchise players. Wall may be but it is way to early to tell. That means 1/2 (at best) are. Between how bad you have to be to get the #1 pick and then the chances that you could very well be the worst team and not get the #1 pick (likely), then only a 50% chance of getting a franchise player...

I'll take my chances making the playoffs and building over time instead of banking on getting extremely lucky in the draft.

[SWedd523]

Name a team that was mediocre and built until they won a title? Other than Detroit, there isn't one. So good luck with that.

[Deadshot]

The point is not that mediocre teams win, but that tanking and getting a high pick doesn't necessarily guarantee you anything either. And just for the record, Detroit wouldn't have won without lucking into Rasheed Wallace (the messy scenario where he ended up getting traded from POR to ATL and playing one game before he became a Piston), and I also don't think they would have won provided the Lakers were healthy (mainly Karl Malone).

Either way, I already responded to the bulk of your posts with #130 and 131 in this thread. It looks like this discussion could get circular so just read those again (or for the first time if you missed them).

[SWedd523]

The point is not that mediocre teams win, but that tanking and getting a high pick doesn't necessarily guarantee you anything either. And just for the record, Detroit wouldn't have won without lucking into Rasheed Wallace (the messy scenario where he ended up getting traded from POR to ATL and playing one game before he became a Piston), and I also don't think they would have won provided the Lakers were healthy (mainly Karl Malone).

Either way, I already responded to the bulk of your posts with #130 and 131 in this thread. It looks like this discussion could get circular so just read those again (or for the first time if you missed them).

I replied to your post (#129), and your second post (#131) was identical so I think maybe you typed something wrong?



Mediocrity (where the Bobcats are, and will continue to be) = 35-45 wins for many years, 0% chance of winning title
Sucking for however long it takes to get a franchise player = 15-20 wins then 50+ wins, better than 0% chance of winning title



The choice should be obvious

[nazsquad]

Philly and NY play each other twice this weekend which means the Cats shouldn't lose any ground in the playoff race despite the tough 3 game homestand ahead.

[teej]

The choice should be obvious

In a vacuum, absolutely. However, this team is in a financial hole and rebuilding with an already tiny STH base and poor local support would be the kiss of death. MJ might be dedicated to the Carolinas, but his creditors wouldn't be, and Seattle, Kansas City, Cincinatti and Pittsburgh are all worthy of an NBA franchise...

[Deadshot]

I guess my question now is, why try and tank the season if you're only going to get the 13th or 14th pick? And I agree that we haven't seen teams build around a non-lottery player - no one drafts someone in that range with those expectations. That would just be stupid. Like I said earlier though, this draft is going to be really weak too. I saw just make the playoffs and hope to land a decent player middle of the pack. If they don't pan out, the expectations were not very high to begin with anyway.

From what I remember, Kwame wasn't a consensus pick. But to be sure I checked out a few links (some said he barely edged out Chandler in workouts). Overall it was a very weak draft and there was a decent amount of confusion about who would go when. This won't represent every draft but this is from a reputable source and has him going #5 (while they had no intentions of building around him, I find it interesting that Gilbert Arenas was picked in the second round by the Warriors this year as well).

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/2001/draft/news/2001/06/11/mock_draft/

If the Kwame example is getting old, I guess we could settle for Adam Morrison then. Either way, his track record is not so hot. The sample size might be small, but its all we have to go by.

[teej]

If the Kwame example is getting old, I guess we could settle for Adam Morrison then. Either way, his track record is not so hot. The sample size might be small, but its all we have to go by.

As tiring as it is, I'll repeat myself: Michael Jordan did not want Adam Morrison. MJ signed on a few months prior to the draft and Bernie Bickerstaff and crew ran that draft, Bernie's last draft.

[BRNC]

I think it is pretty well known most teams would have picked Kwame so that really is beating a dead horse...and teej is correct...Adam was a Bernie pick not MJ...

IMO this draft will really be the first for Rod and MJ...kind of a shame that (with a possible lockout) it will probably be very weak...which means it will be a major crap shoot...even with the #1 pick...whoever has the #1 might try to give it away...:facepalm:

[BigMike]

Mediocrity (where the Bobcats are, and will continue to be) = 35-45 wins for many years, 0% chance of winning title
Sucking for however long it takes to get a franchise player = 15-20 wins then 50+ wins, better than 0% chance of winning title

From a FANS standpoint SURE you want to risk it all on a possible future title but MJ has financial obligations to meet and he cant risk it all right now with the team still trending to loose $ if they dont make the playoffs and a potential lock out next season. MJ needs a very simple thing, 2 more years of his teams making the playoffs, even just the first round. If they can play 3 home games in the first round both years then the team will break even in terms of the $$, after that we will be rid of some boat anchor contracts (14mill tied up in DMac, Diop and Naz) and have developed some players of our own on the cheep (DJ, Hendo, Kwame: 5.8mill for all 3 this year) 3 years in a row in the playoffs will get us some more national games and exposure (and the $$ that comes with it).

MJ has a rebuilding plan and he is right in the middle of it, but he cant speed up contracts with buy outs right now. He cant bring in more players because everyone has guaranteed contracts, he cant trade players because they are all so mediocre right now. SO basically he has to ride it out and hope for the 7th seed this year so we can face the Bulls... That would make for good TV, "Jordan returns home with he new team"... Im just sayin ;)

[Wolfpackbobcat]

A playoff series upset is what this team really needs. Once that happens exposure will explode...If OKC can be sucessfull, why cant we?

[Deadshot]

As tiring as it is, I'll repeat myself: Michael Jordan did not want Adam Morrison. MJ signed on a few months prior to the draft and Bernie Bickerstaff and crew ran that draft, Bernie's last draft.

Thanks for clearing that up! I was under the impression that he was an MJ pick from reading other sites but it looks like I need to spend more time catching up on my reading here :)

[teej]

Thanks for clearing that up! I was under the impression that he was an MJ pick from reading other sites but it looks like I need to spend more time catching up on my reading here :)

It's because the national media looks for any excuse to bash MJ the executive. No worries.

[Absinthe]

A playoff series upset is what this team really needs. Once that happens exposure will explode...If OKC can be sucessfull, why cant we?

We don't have Keven Durant. Or even Westbrook. Those players are better than any three on the Bobcats.

[SWedd523]

We don't have Keven Durant. Or even Westbrook. Those players are better than any three on the Bobcats.
And where do you get a player like that?




Oh yeah, the lottery.

[polarcat]

And where do you get a player like that?




Oh yeah, the lottery.

more over, the top 5. That's where you find a franchise player and we've struck out twice in the top 5, though Okafor was the best pick that we had considering our options, so I'm not sore about that pick. I feel that if this staff could get a top-5 pick in the draft, we would end up with a franchise player. That's not to say you can't find one after the top 5, but the percentages are just higher up there.

[BRNC]

I doubt a "franchise-type-player" will even be in the top 5 this draft...not with a lock-out...

[Deadshot]

Yep, those players can only be found near the top 5 usually and I agree with you about Okafor - I would have picked him there too. Its not even worth tanking this season. Even if there were quality players available, you would have to get extremely lucky in the lottery because several teams have really been stinking it up this year (NJ and CLE to name a couple).

[SWedd523]

This year is too late to get a good enough lottery pick so, by all means, aim for the playoffs.

[Deadshot]

So if no drastic moves are made in the offseason, will you be cheering for the team to tank from the start?

[SWedd523]

That, or trade for a franchise level player than can be a building block for a championship.

[teej]

No, you don't want to tank next year either. You max out with this group, let some contracts expire, give Chicago the 2012 pick, get some fans, and then in 2012-2013 there's nothing left, so you start over then.

[BRNC]

No, you don't want to tank next year either. You max out with this group, let some contracts expire, give Chicago the 2012 pick, get some fans, and then in 2012-2013 there's nothing left, so you start over then.

I'm with this plan also...we'll have some cap-flex back and we'll absolutely know what value we have on the team...and the older guys contracts will be up...so great time to start fresh...plus (IMO) any trades we make (probably) between now and then would involve taking back another horrid contract and I'm damned tired of those...

[davcbow]

I'm with this plan also...we'll have some cap-flex back and we'll absolutely know what value we have on the team...and the older guys contracts will be up...so great time to start fresh...plus (IMO) any trades we make (probably) between now and then would involve taking back another horrid contract and I'm damned tired of those...

Im with both you guys on that ... :)

[TheGayKid]

I'm with this plan also...we'll have some cap-flex back and we'll absolutely know what value we have on the team...and the older guys contracts will be up...so great time to start fresh...plus (IMO) any trades we make (probably) between now and then would involve taking back another horrid contract and I'm damned tired of those...

My total agreement: you have it

[ohara831]

http://espn.go.com/nba/standings/_/group/2

Getting too close for comfort.

[teej]

We'll briefly drop out of the playoffs by Monday, but the way they're playing now I have no doubt we're a playoff team.

[Marvel]

We may be playing good now, but the Pacers and the Sixers have also turned up the volume. It's going to be tighter than a fishes a$shole.

[Deadshot]

Aside from playing Miami twice, Indy has a very favorable schedule this month as well. Wednesday's game could be big for the Bobcats since Indy won the first two in the series this year already.

[ohara831]

http://espn.go.com/nba/standings/_/group/2

Well, look on the brightside. We can play the ESPN Draft Lottery Machine and see who we get!

[BRNC]

Yep...#9 now with Boston on Monday...close games are fine if you're the team with the "W"...the guys need to step up...

I've just looked at our remaining schedule (30 games) and I can see us going 17-13...but I don't believe 38 wins is going to get us the #8...

[teej]

I've just looked at our remaining schedule (30 games) and I can see us going 17-13...but I don't believe 38 wins is going to get us the #8...

I think it'll at least be close, and there are enough "iffy" games that if they get hot, it could be over 20 wins.

[BRNC]

Teej...I'd have more confidence in that if we'd pull one off against the Mavs or Heat...they were both coming off very tough games...but we really put ourselves in a hole against the Mavs...I'm feeling 38 wins this year and it's just not going to be enough IMO...

[coldhardtruth2330]

Its going to be tough for us because we have a tough upcoming schedule with games against boston, atlanta, the lakers, bulls, magic, denver, and the lakers again....

The pacers on the other hand have to play miami but thats the only solid team they play.

bull shit scheduling, just our luck.

[Demon DeaCat]

I don't think we can blame our situation on the schedule or bad luck. We had a soft early season schedule and left some wins on the table. Getting blown out by the Wiz and not closing out winnable games against NY, Philly and Indy early in the season may come back to bite us. I agree that nothing less than 40 wins is likely to get us the 8th seed. That leaves us absolutely no margin for error. We've got to run the table against the sub .500 teams and steal 2-3 against teams we probably shouldn't beat. A tall order indeed.

[Deadshot]

Its going to be tough for us because we have a tough upcoming schedule with games against boston, atlanta, the lakers, bulls, magic, denver, and the lakers again....

The pacers on the other hand have to play miami but thats the only solid team they play.

bull shit scheduling, just our luck.

You understand that Indy already beat Miami, LAL, and Dallas this year? Not to mention that Miami and LA were in the same week on the road. I'm not saying that the Pacers are capable of beating tough teams on a consistent basis, but every team has to play tough games. If you're in the Eastern Conference, I still don't think there's any way you can complain about tough scheduling.

[ohara831]

http://espn.go.com/nba/standings/_/group/2

Huge win! Love to beat Boston!

[Dcarnys]

Must win against Indiana wednesday ??

[teej]

Must win against Indiana wednesday ??

And then some.

[BRNC]

And then some.

...and even more...if these guys want a play-off appearance this year they'd better beat the Pacers...

[teej]

...and even more...if these guys want a play-off appearance this year they'd better beat the Pacers...

They have the ability, it's all about wanting it more. Having Tyrus would really help on Hibbert, but even without him there's no excuse not to win.

[BRNC]

They have the ability, it's all about wanting it more. Having Tyrus would really help on Hibbert, but even without him there's no excuse not to win.

I agree Teej...IMO tonight and the game against the Pacers are the first real "man-up" games this year...I just hope men show up for us (like tonight)...

[teej]

I agree Teej...IMO tonight and the game against the Pacers are the first real "man-up" games this year...I just hope men show up for us (like tonight)...

Pacers are actually very similar matchup-wise to the C's. Two undersized PG's, a bunch of hard-nosed big men, two PF's who can hit from mid-range and maybe longer, a guy in Granger (like Pierce) who can get to the rim but shoots well, and then marksmen at the 2 guard.

Difference is, Celtics are better quality.

Hopefully Livingston is in the same form and Eddie can defend everyone but Hibbert down low. Kwame has to man up big time.

[ohara831]

http://espn.go.com/nba/standings/_/group/2

Off night, and we still get back into 8th.

[BRNC]

...makes the Pacers game that much more important...with a "W" we're even with them in the "L" column...forces them to catch us...but they do have a favorable schedule so the guys had better be serious...

[ohara831]

http://espn.go.com/nba/standings/_/group/2

Lost the tiebreakers with all our major competition. This loss really hurts.

[ammofan]

http://espn.go.com/nba/standings/_/group/2

Lost the tiebreakers with all our major competition. This loss really hurts.

Thank you NBA Refs...........

[ohara831]

http://espn.go.com/nba/standings/_/group/2

2 games out. With the Hawks, Lakers and Bulls coming up, things are not looking too promising right now.

[BRNC]

I'm waving as the play-offs pass us...with the "motley crew" we've assembled (disguised as an NBA team) why should anyone be surprised...I still contend we have only have two certified-NBA-starting players, Crash and Jack, so why should our falling position shock anyone...

[ohara831]

http://espn.go.com/nba/standings/_/group/2

Great win, but Indiana won also so we stay 2 back.

[ohara831]

http://espn.go.com/nba/standings/_/group/2

Down to 1.5 games after the victory over LA.

[Absinthe]

Indiana is playing fantastic basketball. Especially since they changed coaches.

[WAM9]

I think we should start 1 or 2 threads which categorize us into 2 camps: Those that think we will make the playoffs and those who don't.

I just hate it when the same folks who bitch about the roster and the coaching and the management and the ownership and the rotations and the overall play of the team say we have no chance to make the playoffs and then jump back on the bandwagon as soon as we win a couple of games and act like they knew it all along.

It happened last year many, many times.

Put me squarely in the we are definitely making the playoffs camp.

[CatNation]

lol I would never say this team is definitely going to do anything. except beat the Lakers. we are the most inconsistent, random sports team I've ever seen. And bitching about those things makes sense even if we make the playoffs. back to back 7th/8th seeds with an old roster isn't much to feel good about honestly. though i suppose it beats the alternative.

[BigMike]

I'm waving as the play-offs pass us...with the "motley crew" we've assembled (disguised as an NBA team) why should anyone be surprised...I still contend we have only have two certified-NBA-starting players, Crash and Jack, so why should our falling position shock anyone...

I am sorry but DJ has proven him self as a true NBA point guard. He has consistently gone toe to toe with the best in the league. Rondo, Wall, Rose, they have all ended with them having the same or lesser stats then DJ

As for the playoffs, unless Indiana slacks off from this winning streak they are on I think we might have a better chance of beating the Knicks for that 8th spot. The Knicks are 5-5 in the last 10 but only 8 - 12 in the last 20

[BRNC]

Mike...I'm still not convinced we catch either team if our guys (not named Wallace or Jackson) can't get up and play with effort against teams (not named Celtics or Lakers)...

I'd feel a lot better about DJ if he were more consistent this year...I know he (like the team) is adapting to a new Head Coach...but from what I know Paul is not a bad guy to play for...and I also know DJ is having to make the adjustment to starter...but there are games he has been burned badly by the less than stellar PGs in the league...I still see DJ as a solid back-up NBA PG at this point...I'd like to see him as a starter I'm just not there (lack of consistency) yet...

[WarioVsMooChicken]

I think the Bobcats are a playoff team right now.

Problem is that the 76ers and Pacers also look like playoff teams.

[TheGayKid]

I think the Bobcats are a playoff team right now.

Problem is that the 76ers and Pacers also look like playoff teams.

Exactly...

[TheGayKid]

This is my prediction of our run for the playoffs based on current levels of consistency among our teams wins and losses:
http://www.gifbin.com/bin/349sw043yu35.gif

[Absinthe]

Philly has a much more talented team than either Indiana or Charlotte does. They struggle with consistency just like Charlotte does, however. If I had to bet, Philly will make the playoffs out of the three.

To me, Indiana plays more consistent basketball than either Charlotte or Philly. They're hard working team that hustles even though they lack the talent of a team like Philly.

[teej]

Philly will make the playoffs out of the three.

Erm, two of the three will make it?

Boston, Miami, Chicago, Atlanta and Orlando are locks 1-5. New York has distance over everyone remaining at #6, then it's Indy, Philly, us and one could argue (incorrectly) for Milwaukee battling for the last two spots.

[ohara831]

http://espn.go.com/nba/standings?group=2

Going into the Break

[CatNation]

don't really like our odds. theres no real easy stretch left in the schedule I see where we can go on a 4-5 game streak. missing Tyrus bad, need his rebounding in our small line!!!!!!!!!!

[BRNC]

...our odds stink...will take nothing short of a minor miracle with our schedule after the All-Star break...

[polarcat]

I hate that Indy and Milwaukee have 3 and 2 games respectively in hand on us too.

[Absinthe]

The Bucks are apparently getting Michael Redd back, their schedule is weaker, and they're looking to trade virtually anyone on the team not named Bogut or Jennings in order to improve. Don't count them out.

[BRNC]

Pistons just beat the Pacers so we're a game behind says NBA.co...two games behind in the "L" column...

[ohara831]

Pistons just beat the Pacers so we're a game behind says NBA.co...two games behind in the "L" column...

http://espn.go.com/nba/standings/_/group/2

Yep. Gained .5 on them tonight.

[BRNC]

ohara...I just wish we had a more forgiving schedule after the break...I really like the way Paul has the team playing but man...it's going to be tough...glad MJ extended Paul to take pressure off him and the team...

[ohara831]

ohara...I just wish we had a more forgiving schedule after the break...I really like the way Paul has the team playing but man...it's going to be tough...glad MJ extended Paul to take pressure off him and the team...

Totally agree. That is why every .5 game helps. But we have an uphill road. Really in a strange spot. Do we hold, and likely just miss out on the Playoffs? Do we trade to hopefully make ourselves a little better for this season and better our Playoff odds? If we wait more than a week, and we are losing ground and likely out of the Playoff hunt, the trade deadline will have passed (2/23) and we are screwed. Really a very difficult choice to make. One can make an argument for any of the 3 options and be right.... or wrong. Tough time for the front office right about now. Bet there is a lot of nail biting and 2nd guessing going on.

[polarcat]

I feel like most teams that are 1 game out and 5 games out of 6th at the AS Break, are buyers rather than sellers. With the CBA crap in the way, it might be different this year, but I'd like to think that if something came by to improve our squad, we would do it. I wish Tyrus wasn't hurt so that Diaw could be packaged with someone or something and add another weapon. Should be an interesting week until the deadline.

[BRNC]

ohara...I agree it is tough and I actually "feel" for our FO...LOL never thought I'd say that...but the play offs seem to be the primary for MJ so I'm guessing we're buyers...which is not a bad thing if we make the right "buy"...

[ohara831]

http://espn.go.com/nba/standings/_/group/2

Good win, but Indiana wins also so we gain no ground on them.

[BRNC]

I like the fact we finally beat a team we were suppose to beat...I hope it is a sign that the guys are getting serious...and it was a damn fine win...

[ohara831]

http://espn.go.com/nba/standings/_/group/2

Indiana wont lose. If Charlotte cannot find a trade to improve some, no Playoffs this year.

[ohara831]

http://espn.go.com/nba/standings/_/group/2

Picking up ground on the first post-Gerald game.

[murphman]

Quick summary. For both Indiana and Charlotte, they play each other 15 games from now. In those 14 games before then, Charlotte plays 11 of them against playoff teams (if the playoffs began today); Indiana plays 8 against playoff teams.

We have got to stay strong, play hard and create 2 or more big upsets in this stretch.

[WFU4LIFE]

Channing Frye just hit a game winning shot in OT for Phoenix to win in Indy. We are now tied for 8th, though it won't stay that way for long. Beat the Magic!

[WrxErik]

Yessir! just posted the same thing in the gameday thread. This game is now a must win.

[ammofan]

Beat orlando!

[ohara831]

http://espn.go.com/nba/standings/_/group/2

Rats! Had a chance to get back to 8th, but Orlando on the road was not a likely win. This next stretch of games will be brutal. Gotta find a a way to win a couple if we want to hang around and have a shot at the #8 spot.

[Marvel]

Next stretch of 5-6 games is brutal.

[teej]

As long as Indy loses to teams they shouldn't, we have more than a good chance.

[BRNC]

As long as Indy loses to teams they shouldn't, we have more than a good chance.

The problem is we have to start beating teams we're not supposed to beat for this to matter...

[ohara831]

http://espn.go.com/nba/standings

Well. lost some ground regarding our Playoff chase, but we were helped in the West with NO losing and now they are only 1 game from being a Lottery team.

[ohara831]

http://espn.go.com/nba/standings


Thankfully Indiana lost too.

[BlockParty]

And their next game is vs Dallas :)

[BRNC]

And their next game is vs Dallas :)

...and ours against a Lakers team that's going to be "gunning" for us...and now we have no "Crash"...I doubt it will be pretty....(hope I'm wrong)...

[ohara831]

http://espn.go.com/nba/standings

Tough loss to a very good team.

[ammofan]

Wouldn't it be crazy if we went into tank mode, benched Jack, then we got Tyrus back and made the Playoffs? It's possible....were are only a game out.

[ohara831]

http://espn.go.com/nba/standings

Not looking too good right now.

[ziggy]

1.5 games out of 8th for us.

But just as interesting is the New Orleans situation out west. They are 2.5 games away from sliding out the playoffs and CP3 is recovering from a concussion.
Don't the basketball gods owe us this one?

[Chef]

1.5 games out of 8th for us.

But just as interesting is the New Orleans situation out west. They are 2.5 games away from sliding out the playoffs and CP3 is recovering from a concussion.
Don't the basketball gods owe us this one?

yes, but knowing our luck they will win the 1,2 or 3 spot in the lottery at a combined chance of 1% and we will not get their pick.

[adam187]

I have never been following the Indiana Pacers more closely in my life.

[jdsingar]

I wonder if getting in the playoffs would help or hurt our national reputation (not that it really matters). BUT we would be the worst NBA team in recent memory to make the playoffs. Apparently there was a Spurs team in the 80s that was 31-51, so not quite that bad. Everyone would know that we were this team.

But it would be very nice to get one win in the playoffs. If that is even possible with this squad.

[murphman]

Tonight is HUGE. Pacers host Boston, we host the Bucks.