Turning Point??

[BlockParty]

This is from Bonnell's column. A great recap of the quotes from last night's game that were mentioned in the Game threads. Most importantly, the mini-break they have before Denver comes to town needs to be filled with some accountability, soul searching and leading by example. Hopefully they take it to heart and we see this as the Turning Point of the season.

Thoughts?



"We look like an AAU team right now,'' guard Stephen Jackson said of the Charlotte Bobcats Saturday. "It looks really bad.''

Apologies to AAU basketball, but it's obvious what Jackson meant: Immature, disorganized, lacking in a group identity.

Jackson said that after the Bobcats' 109-91 loss to the Philadelphia 76ers. They can only hope that beat-down, against another struggling team, marks bottom.

But who knows? They're 7-13, yet only a game behind eighth-place Toronto for the East's final playoff spot. Their coach says there's nothing isolated about the problems that made them look so feeble Saturday.

"We don't play together, we don't play hard enough. We don't move the ball, we don't defend as a team,'' said coach Larry Brown, adding, "That's my fault.''

This might not be a crisis – they've played a quarter of their 82-game schedule – but it sure resembles a crossroads. Forward Gerald Wallace looks to the immediate schedule – seven of the remaining 11 games this month are at home – and says, "After December, we'll know where we stand.''

For now they wobble. Eight months removed from their first playoff appearance, the Bobcats have devolved from a physically-tough, confident group to a team that, as Wallace describes, adopts a different style each game.

In three remarkably candid interviews Saturday night, Brown and captains Jackson and Wallace discussed all that is troubling this team:

Leadership and experience
To hear Wallace and Jackson tell it, the departures of point guard Raymond Felton and centers Tyson Chandler and Theo Ratliff threw this team for a loop.

"No disrespect to anybody, but I think everyone was more focused on doing their jobs last year,'' said Jackson. "We had such professionals last year. We had Theo and Tyson, and when Tyrus (Thomas) first came here, he had a lot of energy. And Raymond led this team.''

Felton is a Knick, Ratliff a Laker and Chandler a Maverick. That means D.J. Augustin became the starter at point guard and power forward Thomas is growing into a larger role off the bench.

Wallace notes a key difference between Felton's intensity and Augustin's more deferential personality.

Wallace misses Felton's "aggression, his approach on defense. The point guard is the head of the team. He picks everybody up and brings us along.

"D.J. doesn't have the fight. Not to compare them as far as abilities, but D.J.'s personality is not as high as Ray's was as far as aggression and attitude on the court. D.J. is more laid-back.

Augustin acknowledges he's shy by nature and Brown calls Felton a "bulldog.'' But Brown said if there's a leadership void, it's Wallace's and Jackson's task to fix that as captains.
"It starts with (Wallace). It's starts with Jack, it starts with Boris'' Diaw, said Brown, adding, "It's not the youth. I think the youth plays with energy.''

Jackson took Brown's words as a challenge to "have more pride about losing games, be upset when we lose. We need to start taking it more personally. We've got to be more professional and more hungry.''


Read more: http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2010/12/05/1890300/key-ingredients-missing-for-bobcats.html#ixzz17IgKJcLC

[Fred Williamson]

Wallace notes a key difference between Felton's intensity and Augustin's more deferential personality.

Wallace misses Felton's "aggression, his approach on defense. The point guard is the head of the team. He picks everybody up and brings us along.

"D.J. doesn't have the fight. Not to compare them as far as abilities, but D.J.'s personality is not as high as Ray's was as far as aggression and attitude on the court. D.J. is more laid-back.


way to go blaming a 22year old PG, asshole. Did he forgot that he's the captain of this team? and its his job to pick everybody up?

[spectre]

Wow...didn't see this coming. LB has always been known to toss a word out against his players/team in the media (what I've always hated most about him), but I'm very surprised Crash & Jax "went there".

Tho I do think they have a point...it's up to those 2 guys to stand up and fill the void in leadership. On the flip DJ has to stop disappearing/being passive in the games. He needs a "hero mode"...something Felton got bashed about repeatedly but also something this team desperately needs from the PG.

[ammofan]

They all need to shut up. All they are doing by saying this is making everything worse.

[ohara831]

This team is crumbling and it is coming apart from the inside. DJ has work to do, yes. But he is far from the most serious problem we have. LB publicly bashing players is sad enough. But for Crash and Jax to also start the bull$hit as an excuse for their own crappy play is cowardly. Crash has seriously taken a major hit in my book as far as respectability. I did not expect this kind of crap from him. Jax, maybe, but not Crash. When you have a cancer on the team, get rid of it. Period. That means every cancer there is on the team.

[Scottley Crue]

I definitely think this is a turning point, especially now that they've publicly acknowledged some of their problems and issues. Struggling teams will do this...there will be finger pointing at times. This can lead to discord but it can also lead everyone to the mirror to ask the guy in there what he can do to make it better. They're very clearly tired of the way they're playing and know a great deal of it is self-inflicted (effort/energy...remember those things?). Now how they react to this epiphany is certainly a turning point. They've clearly identified the problems, will they do what's needed to fix it? Let's hope so. I really think addressing the issues of urgency, effort and energy will go a long way to help what we see out there.

[spectre]

Now how they react to this epiphany is certainly a turning point. They've clearly identified the problems, will they do what's needed to fix it? Let's hope so. I really think addressing the issues of urgency, effort and energy will go a long way to help what we see out there.

I agree on that last as it's been sorely lacking, but now you have the coach & the two captains either directly or indirectly pointing at the leadership loss at PG. This also appeared to be LB's concern at the start of the season and why we were looking at Caleron (:facepalm:) and Devin Harris.

Are the odds better that Jordan acquiesces to LB, Crash & Jax and looks to trade for a veteran PG or does Jordan say they're all wrong and cans LB and moves the 2 captains?

Even tho LB has intimated it throughout this offseason/season he did say that those two were wrong on the leadership and it put it right back onto them.

[ohara831]

We have all noted how Jax makes stupid plays, quits on defense do he can yell at the refs, and just plain screws up a lot. And we all have questioned how this season Crash seems to have totally just lost interest in a game and doesn't shoot, and seems to not be interested in playing defense. Now I will totally agree that DJ has not played great defense, but it is not for lack of trying. I dont think I have seen a game where it was obvious he just quit on the team and took the day off. So for the 2 veteran leaders on the team to point fingers at anyone but themselves is just cowardly. This team deserves to lose every game if their Coach and 2 leaders handle business this way. For me, I cannot wait for the next time Crash makes a "crash landing" and has to sit out a while. Maybe it will knock some damn sense into his overrated head. All Star my a$$!

[spectre]

In defense of Crash...remember the guy had pretty much never even learned the game of basketball until he got under LB's wing. He's never been that outspoken so far as I could tell...so isn't it kind of a reach to think he should "suddenly" be the leader on the court?

DJ HAS to be a threat when he's out there. If he's playing passively then we only have the 2 guys who can create some points...and the other teams know that. Crash only has one big thing in his repetoire and that's driving to the hole...so he's only going to be able to do so much.

The FO knew where the leadership was coming from last year and they made the decision to go another way...to try and fill whatever void that was created by putting more on Jax & Crash. They deserve some of the fault to be sure.


For me, I cannot wait for the next time Crash makes a "crash landing" and has to sit out a while. Maybe it will knock some damn sense into his overrated head. All Star my a$$! I'm sure that's anger speaking...but I can't go along with this at all.

[Proudiddy]

I posted this in Ballwhore's thread about this article:


I was completely blown away that Jack and Crash would even say anything like this in a published article. At least go with the "anonymous source" route. As I was reading it, my jaw just kept dropping. I get that Felton was a leader, but they were in this article talking about him like a f*cking Marvel Comic. I don't get it. And for all that personality and intensity he brought, it didn't prevent him from getting his ass busted by Jameer Nelson in the playoffs.

This is ridiculous. And DJ has done nothing but played his ass off this year. Sure, he's had a few off games, but the guy is balling, just like I predicted he would if given the opportunity last year. Sorry if he's not super-expressive, but you don't have to be to be a leader. Why do Jack, who supposedly had DJ's back, and Crash feel they have the right to criticize him in the paper? Although this article's title suggests that it's about the problems with the team, it mainly just ends up being a "we miss Felton, DJ's not our guy" article. SN: If they wanted Felton that bad, he wasn't that expensive... Yet, we didn't bring him back.

Also, Crash is the same one that called Tyson out last year, yet this year he was an amazing player and leader in the locker room... lol.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, this team is going nowhere because of how it is constructed. If Crash and Jack were stand-up vets, we wouldn't have this problem. Instead, they wanna be immature, me-first vets, and are looking for excuses as to why that isn't working anymore. Yes, losing guys like Felton, Theo, and Tyson hurt because they picked up the slack maturity wise and handled things within the team when Crash and Jack wouldn't... As vets often do.

I said earlier in the season, I think we can trade Crash for maximum value now. And I think UPS can grow into the SF role. I think Hendo can be a player at SG. And whatever we can get back should be equal or better in value than those guys. It's time to make some deals because these guys don't get it. You can't point fingers and without looking at yourself first. These two are grown ass men, complaining that they don't have another grown man there to hold their hand and "set the tone" for them. GTFO. Please, BLOW IT UP NOW.

Crash really did change after last year's success. I'm tired of it. I promise you... I know from experience... A locker room like this will not win. They have to make changes or this season will be lost.

[Toocool]

It's so easy to point fingers and blame others. Crash and Jack need to look at themselves first, and then go along from that.

Bull crap about them bagging DJ. Dude is starting, and being extremely efficient while playing. Sure he doesnt' have the agressiveness or defense of Felton, but that'll come in time. They expect DJ to fill a role that he's just got into. I find that DJ's play has been significantly better than most of what Crash and Jack have brought thus far. All these articles before about how DJ is stepping into the leader role, and then Crash and Jack bring him down to earth and kept crying about Felton Felton.

Grow up fellas, you're a disgrace at the moment.

And LB needs to think more clearer about what the hell he's doing playing McGuire 15-20 minutes when he's nothing but pure scrub.

[SWedd523]

I fear it's time to blow it up fellas.

[Toocool]

I fear it's time to blow it up fellas.

Like theres much left to blow up Swedd. No heart on this team anymore it seems.

[Ghost Kat]

As I read through this thread I see alot of DJ needs to do this and DJ needs to do that. Why aren't Capt. Jack and Crash talking about what Diaw a fellow Vet needs to do? DJ and Felton are totally different players. I'm happier with DJ then I was with Felton. But when our two starting low post big men are bitches ( Diaw & Nazr) trying to blame the PG is just silly.

[ziggy]

I fear it's time to blow it up fellas.

I fear that what you fear is absolutely correct.

This is why you are right:

We could do either


Trade Crash
Trade Crash and Jax

Because the Eastern Conference is sooooo bad that as long as we get back some young talent that plays hard every night and give some effort like they actually give a shit, we could STILL sneak into the 7th or 8th spot in the playoffs.

If we did this we could maintain the fanbase by still making it to the postseason (37 wins may get iin this year) AND we would be setting ourselves up nicely for next season because we would have young guys with playoff experience.

If LB needs to go to make this happen then I'm completely comfortable with that.

If no changes are made, then the Bobcats miss the playoffs and fan interest dwindles.

opinions?

[spectre]

I fear it's time to blow it up fellas.

What do you think the odds are that MJ would actually blow it up?


As I read through this thread I see alot of DJ needs to do this and DJ needs to do that. Why aren't Capt. Jack and Crash talking about what Diaw a fellow Vet needs to do?

Because Boris has been our most consistent player this season to date?

I understand and somewhat agree with all the bashing he's taken in season's past...but this season he doesn't deserve any.

[Proudiddy]

At this point, with this team, with the "Vets" publicly displaying their shitty attitudes - I don't FEAR blowing it up, I'm embracing it and hope it happens soon. I've had it with this team and it's time for change.

Gerald hit his ceiling last year, and with his primadonna attitude now, it's time to move on. Same for Jack.

[Fred Williamson]

As I read through this thread I see alot of DJ needs to do this and DJ needs to do that. Why aren't Capt. Jack and Crash talking about what Diaw a fellow Vet needs to do? DJ and Felton are totally different players. I'm happier with DJ then I was with Felton. But when our two starting low post big men are bitches ( Diaw & Nazr) trying to blame the PG is just silly.

do you even watch the games? You keep on hugging on Tyrus' nuts and blaming Diaw, even though Boris is the most consistent player on this team while Tyrus is f**king up big time when he gets his 35minutes. and what the hell is Nazr supposed to do? average 20/10? C'mon son...

[BIGCatBobcat]

You guys are basing a lot of this off of one flawed item: the article itself. Bonnell, to me, is being a bit irresponsible. Posting one side of the story, posting quotes out of context, problems without solutions, it's a mess. You can't have an article where it sounds a lot like 2 guys hoisting up excuses and heaping questions upon the inexperience PG and not talk to the PG.

We all have to remember, from the Playoff team, we lost starting PG, Starting C, a solid shooting 2 off the bench, 3 of the most vocal and respected leaders on court and in the locker room. You just don't flip out next year with those voids and hope for guys to step up. It's like Larry, who acted like he didnt want to come back in the off season remember, it's like he wants the same song with a different band...it aint gonna work!

Larry deserves way, way more blame than anyone is giving him. As far as I know, Bonnell is up LB's ass and all this excuses and finger pointing, if Larry brings it back together, will make him look like a hero. Don't forget who is the rudder on this ship, and just because the "fundamentals" he preaches arent there, doesn't mean he's off the hook.

[Proudiddy]

You guys are basing a lot of this off of one flawed item: the article itself. Bonnell, to me, is being a bit irresponsible. Posting one side of the story, posting quotes out of context, problems without solutions, it's a mess. You can't have an article where it sounds a lot like 2 guys hoisting up excuses and heaping questions upon the inexperience PG and not talk to the PG.

We all have to remember, from the Playoff team, we lost starting PG, Starting C, a solid shooting 2 off the bench, 3 of the most vocal and respected leaders on court and in the locker room. You just don't flip out next year with those voids and hope for guys to step up. It's like Larry, who acted like he didnt want to come back in the off season remember, it's like he wants the same song with a different band...it aint gonna work!

Larry deserves way, way more blame than anyone is giving him. As far as I know, Bonnell is up LB's ass and all this excuses and finger pointing, if Larry brings it back together, will make him look like a hero. Don't forget who is the rudder on this ship, and just because the "fundamentals" he preaches arent there, doesn't mean he's off the hook.

I'll admit that I think Bonnell has a thing for Felton and this article has an underlying Felton-bias... But, it's obvious these guys feel strongly about it enough to be quoted saying such things in the article. We have make changes.

[spectre]

Here's a thought...

The FO insinuated all offseason that the decision to let Felton walk WOULD cause a void in ball movement and in leadership and that they expected Crash, Jax & Boris to take up the slack.

Instead of looking at it like Crash throwing DJ "under the bus"...isn't he just saying that the FO was wrong to assume others could fill in what we lost in Felton?

If Crash is throwing DJ under the bus now then wasn't the FO doing the same this offseason?

[BlockParty]

^^^ agree with BigCat about the context of the quotes, however, I don't doubt that is the sentiment of what's being said (I just doubt their intent is to direct it at DJ, rather it's aimed at Rod and MJ for not resigning Raymond). What isn't in question (in my opinion) is Jack and GW need to look no where but in the mirror for leadership, direction, setting the tone, etc. Felton's loss isn't impact the team because he was the PG and the PG isn't doing his job, Felton's loss is being felt because he was the Captain and he's been replaced by Jack in that capacity.

The PG position, more than any other position entering the season was the most unsettled, now that we are 1/4 of the way through the season, I'm probably less concerned about PG (DJ and Liv) than any other position we've got. LB needs to take some of the blame too, it's the Coaches job to motivate (even though they are paid Millions). Great coaches become great in the NBA because they can motivate their players, not because of their X's and O's.

And LB is always talking about empty possessions, well....tell Dominic to stop shooting, he's averaging a 1 for ___ each game, it doesn't matter how many times he shoots, he only makes 1 basket, that'll save about 7 empty possessions per game.

[Proudiddy]

Here's a thought...

The FO insinuated all offseason that the decision to let Felton walk WOULD cause a void in ball movement and in leadership and that they expected Crash, Jax & Boris to take up the slack.

Instead of looking at it like Crash throwing DJ "under the bus"...isn't he just saying that the FO was wrong to assume others could fill in what we lost in Felton?

If Crash is throwing DJ under the bus now then wasn't the FO doing the same this offseason?

No, because if they thought DJ's negatives were so heavy that they would outweigh his positives, we wouldn't have let Felton walk. The FO trusted DJ enough to make him the starter, but recognized he is a different player than Felton. Crash wasn't always a vocal guy either, he developed into one.

And if Crash is saying that we can't replace what Felton brought, he's admitting as a captain, that he can't fill that loss, so essentially he's giving up - which coincides with his play on the court for the most part this season.

And the again, DJ may not be as vocal as Felton, but as far as pure PG play, he is better than Felton. One of our biggest problems last year (and still this year although through Jack, Wallace, and others) was turnovers... Now we have the most efficient PG in the league and this team is finding ways to lose despite him. Again, Wallace and Jack need to look at themselves and stop looking to please certain factions of people and stop trying to reassure themselves that it's not their fault.

[ballwhore]

I didn't once read where Crash said he wasn't a leader. That's what needs to be said in the article. It's easy to say what everyone else needs to be doing but to what standard is he holding himself? We all watch the games where in the hell is crash from last year? The one who was diving for loose balls and all that extra stuff. He is shooting more jumpers than driving to the basket these day's. But guess what? They are running plays for him to shoot that crooked ass jumpshot. Jack was bumping talking about they don't miss felton but they get burned by who else but Jodie Meeks for a record quater and it's dissarray. Hey Jack! Shut your damn mouth and play ball. Stop getting technicals. Get back on defense. Hold your man. Last time I checked the two and three gaurds for opposing teams are killing us in 75% of the games and don't tell me it's all because of help defense. Hell Livingston and DJ have been basically splitting minutes. But it's all DJ..LMAO So all this being said. Is Crash and Jack really the future for this team. Two guys named captains that say they need a leader that shit don't mix or make any sense at all to me. For once LB said some sh#t that registered with me "It starts with them" the damn captains. These are the two guys that are suppose to be teaching our young players how to be professionals imagine that....I really wish they would trade DJ. Really

[BlockParty]

Maybe it's time to take the "Captain" titles away from Jack and GW...and your new Captains are?

DJ (if they are going to bitch at him about not being able to race with the big boys, at least put him on equal footing)
Boris (I think it would light a fire under him...at least for 10 games)
Nazr (he seems the closest thing to a good veteran leader, lockerroom guy)

[Ghost Kat]

do you even watch the games? You keep on hugging on Tyrus' nuts and blaming Diaw, even though Boris is the most consistent player on this team while Tyrus is f**king up big time when he gets his 35minutes. and what the hell is Nazr supposed to do? average 20/10? C'mon son...

I can't even take this post seriously...You children are brave these days




Because Boris has been our most consistent player this season to date?



What has Boris done this year? Score 4 points one game 12 the next? We all know he passes up open shots. He gets beat in the post with his arms up only defense. Doesn't rebound and surely doesn't hustle. Other then that what has he consistently done? Why does he deserve 35 minutes a game? He is a starting PF who is over weight, has one great game every 15-20 games. Ya'll need to stop defending him

[Mustachio]

I can't even take this post seriously...You children are brave these days




What has Boris done this year? Score 4 points one game 12 the next? We all know he passes up open shots. He gets beat in the post with his arms up only defense. Doesn't rebound and surely doesn't hustle. Other then that what has he consistently done? Why does he deserve 35 minutes a game? He is a starting PF who is over weight, has one great game every 15-20 games. Ya'll need to stop defending him

Diaw is playing 10054.12 times better than Gerald Wallace is.

Trade Gerald. Ill take a first round pick.

[Proudiddy]

Diaw is playing 10054.12 times better than Gerald Wallace is.

Trade Gerald. Ill take a first round pick.

Gauging what the Nuggets were expecting in the Melo three-way deal, I don't think any team would offer a 1st for Gerald. I think we may overvalue him quite a bit.

[SWedd523]

What do you think the odds are that MJ would actually blow it up?

Not anytime soon, and to me, that's the biggest mistake he could make.


Every year people have said, we're stuck in mediocrity and can't get any better, yadda yadda. But we end up making a trade and getting a little better. It never fails. JRich, Raja/Diaw, Jack. The issue now is that we don't have much to trade to get anything we need (a Center) outside of another core piece. Exacerbating the issue is the fact that our core is getting older and older and their already low trade value is dwindling.

As it currently stands, we won't make the playoffs. The talent is there, but it's obvious something is seriously wrong with the team as far as camaraderie is concerned. Having a coach who openly hates everyone on the roster other than Boris doesn't help. The situation is so toxic that the only thing that'll help IS to blow it up. An even bigger issue, of course, is money. MJ has a ton of his value tied up in the franchise and doesn't want to see waning fanship and attendance at such a critical point in its existence. The goal of being a 6-8th seed and a first round pounding is fine because it'll help further cement the Cats place in Charlotte--especially with the Panthers playing like frozen cow turdlets.

But that's no longer possible.



So now, before Crash and Jack lose whatever trade value they had, and before we win too many meaningless games. We need to trade Crash, Jack, Diaw, Diop, Hammer, Eddie, everyone with a contract that doesn't expire this/next year and build around the young guys--even if the young guys aren't that good. Accumulate draft picks and expirings, and sell the hell out of, "Hey look, we're blowing it up and following the OKC/Portland model! We want to build the city something they can grow with and call their own!"

I personally would get behind a young, exciting, hard working team with nothing to play for but pride and a young coach with something to prove. Terrence Williams is ripe for the taking. As is OJ Mayo. As is Jason Thompson. As are a few other young pieces and expirings that we could legitimately work with. Use the high draft pick on Irving, Barnes, Sullinger, Morris, etc. and create a new, refreshed atmosphere that everyone can enjoy.




It needs to happen now. But it won't, not until it's too late.

[spectre]

No, because if they thought DJ's negatives were so heavy that they would outweigh his positives, we wouldn't have let Felton walk. The FO trusted DJ enough to make him the starter, but recognized he is a different player than Felton. Crash wasn't always a vocal guy either, he developed into one.

My whole "thought" was that Crash is saying that the FO was wrong in thinking all that you just said.


And if Crash is saying that we can't replace what Felton brought, he's admitting as a captain, that he can't fill that loss, so essentially he's giving up - which coincides with his play on the court for the most part this season.

Again...isn't Crash admitting that HE can't fill the void in leadership?


And the again, DJ may not be as vocal as Felton, but as far as pure PG play, he is better than Felton. One of our biggest problems last year (and still this year although through Jack, Wallace, and others) was turnovers... Now we have the most efficient PG in the league and this team is finding ways to lose despite him. Again, Wallace and Jack need to look at themselves and stop looking to please certain factions of people and stop trying to reassure themselves that it's not their fault.

Since we won 44 games with all those TOs maybe that wasn't one of our biggest problems after all.

I definitely agree everyone needs to look at themselves, but something has certainly changed from last year to this one. Everyone is quick to pin it all on Crash...but we are talking about a guy that has busted his ass continuously for virtually no reward til last season.

Maybe 18 games give or take changes all that for some of you guys...but to me what he thinks still means something.

[Mustachio]

spectre. you have a captain in Gerald Wallace asking for leadership. that in and of its self is grounds for a trade.

Im not rushing into this. Ive held this feeling about Gerald for a long time. He lacks far too many "48 minute player" qualities to be playing 48 minutes every night.

I cannot handle a pro basketball player under 7 foot that cannot put the ball in the hoop. I just cant. thats what this game is about. sure you gotta play defense, but if you cant put the ball in the hoop maybe football is your sport.

[ballwhore]

So he gets a pass for this season? Really? He is a hustle player that doesn't play with a lot of hustle anymore. Yes every once and while he goes coast to coast out of control or slaps a shot. It's on everybody but I blame Crash and Jack as the leaders. 44 games..Uh!

[Chef]

So he gets a pass for this season? Really? He is a hustle player that doesn't play with a lot of hustle anymore. Yes every once and while he goes coast to coast out of control or slaps a shot. It's on everybody but I blame Crash and Jack as the leaders. 44 games..Uh!

very accurate. also, the FO and LB had to know the locker room/leadership dynamics. that being said if you keep jax and crash around you have to sign ray and roll with that team.

[DY_nasty]

In defense of Crash...remember the guy had pretty much never even learned the game of basketball until he got under LB's wing. He's never been that outspoken so far as I could tell...so isn't it kind of a reach to think he should "suddenly" be the leader on the court?

DJ HAS to be a threat when he's out there. If he's playing passively then we only have the 2 guys who can create some points...and the other teams know that. Crash only has one big thing in his repetoire and that's driving to the hole...so he's only going to be able to do so much.

The FO knew where the leadership was coming from last year and they made the decision to go another way...to try and fill whatever void that was created by putting more on Jax & Crash. They deserve some of the fault to be sure.

I'm sure that's anger speaking...but I can't go along with this at all.
Another thing spec, the spacing on this team is atrocious right now. Its easily the worst in the league and probably worse than it was last year before we brought in Jackson to begin with.

After watching DJ a lot (and being pissed that LB changed who he was as a player [i think he was better his rookie year by far]), I think its safe to say that this is a guy who's going to kill himself to drive through a lane clogged with defenders just to put some garbage on the glass like Ray. He does need to take that ft range jumpshot more, but on a team like this, he'll be severely limited until the paint gets opened up.

As I read through this thread I see alot of DJ needs to do this and DJ needs to do that. Why aren't Capt. Jack and Crash talking about what Diaw a fellow Vet needs to do? DJ and Felton are totally different players. I'm happier with DJ then I was with Felton. But when our two starting low post big men are bitches ( Diaw & Nazr) trying to blame the PG is just silly.
Diaw's the best player on the team right now.

Easily.

And yes it hurts to type this.

[spectre]

spectre. you have a captain in Gerald Wallace asking for leadership. that in and of its self is grounds for a trade.

Eh...Crash is what he is, but he's been captain for forever. Maybe that's because there's no one else to be captain? Maybe it's just been rewarded to him because he has been our best player?

Up til this season he was co-captains with Felton. Maybe Felton was the leader on the court and Crash was just respected for who he is/what he did?

Hell, doesn't Larry Brown appoint the captains?

THIS IS NOT DJ'S FAULT NOR DO I THINK THAT CRASH IS TRYING TO BLAME HIM.

As Blockparty said (sorry I didn't give you props earlier...missed it in all the other posts) I think it's more Crash calling out the FO.

[spectre]

Another thing spec, the spacing on this team is atrocious right now. Its easily the worst in the league and probably worse than it was last year before we brought in Jackson to begin with.

There's a lot broken with this team right now and your points are certainly front and center.


After watching DJ a lot (and being pissed that LB changed who he was as a player [i think he was better his rookie year by far]), I think its safe to say that this is a guy who's going to kill himself to drive through a lane clogged with defenders just to put some garbage on the glass like Ray. He does need to take that ft range jumpshot more, but on a team like this, he'll be severely limited until the paint gets opened up.We have always lacked quality perimeter shooting. I attribute a lot of Felton's numbers this year to having quality perimeter guys (other would be Ama're o'course and the faster pace).

DJ can't bust a zone by bulling into the paint like Felton could, so just like you said he needs to do more midrange.

What I'd really like to see is DJ in "hero mode" in the 4th. Somebody's gotta do it.


Diaw's the best player on the team right now.

Easily.

And yes it hurts to type this.:hysterical:

I know it does!

[ballwhore]

This team is pretty much in the same position it was last year at this point and until they got Jack it didn't matter about Felton or Wallace they weren't going anywhere so just like last year shit needs to be shook up and start with a different core. Keeping Jax and Crash and expecting different results=insanity. Tyson and Ratliff defended the rim like it was suppose to be in the run to the playoffs. Take away those two, wallace with his all star hangover, jax being jax and flip gone with Raymond here where would this team be? I would guess in the same boat. Shake it up baby. LB has ruined DJ he was susch a scorer everybody was saying he wasn't a pg he was a shooting guard in a points body. Now he is a tweener at best. Everytime I hit and say man f#ck them get yours be agressive. His answer border along the line of i'm trying to play not sit. Can't waitto hear what he has to say about the article.

[DY_nasty]

This team is pretty much in the same position it was last year at this point and until they got Jack it didn't matter about Felton or Wallace they weren't going anywhere so just like last year shit needs to be shook up and start with a different core. Keeping Jax and Crash and expecting different results=insanity. Tyson and Ratliff defended the rim like it was suppose to be in the run to the playoffs. Take away those two, wallace with his all star hangover, jax being jax and flip gone with Raymond here where would this team be? I would guess in the same boat. Shake it up baby. LB has ruined DJ he was susch a scorer everybody was saying he wasn't a pg he was a shooting guard in a points body. Now he is a tweener at best. Everytime I hit and say man f#ck them get yours be agressive. His answer border along the line of i'm trying to play not sit. Can't waitto hear what he has to say about the article.I'm starting to want DJ to get traded too man... he's put up with so much crap since he's been here. He's not even the same player anymore.

[Scottley Crue]

I fear that what you fear is absolutely correct.

This is why you are right:

We could do either


Trade Crash
Trade Crash and Jax

Because the Eastern Conference is sooooo bad that as long as we get back some young talent that plays hard every night and give some effort like they actually give a shit, we could STILL sneak into the 7th or 8th spot in the playoffs.

If we did this we could maintain the fanbase by still making it to the postseason (37 wins may get iin this year) AND we would be setting ourselves up nicely for next season because we would have young guys with playoff experience.

If LB needs to go to make this happen then I'm completely comfortable with that.

If no changes are made, then the Bobcats miss the playoffs and fan interest dwindles.

opinions?

I agree with you. Despite the absolute mess this team is in, they're only one game out of the playoffs, right? Depending on what you could get back in a trade, the 'Cats could still make a strong run at or actually make the playoffs. As they're currently constructed and acting out on the floor (I would like to see an entire group that gives a shit, too), there's no chance they make it. I think making the playoffs is a beg help to this team's fanbase, but I do think some re-tooling is in order. The way the East is this year, you could possibly do both...and like you, if it makes LB go away, I'm fine with it. I don't hold any illusion that he'll be here next year anyway.

Thing is...who to get? Like others have mentioned, I like OJ Mayo and Jason Thompson. I'd also be interested in Marc Gasol. The Griz haven't extended him and may not be able to do so. Won't be long before the Pistons put some pieces out there...Stuckey or Maxiell, anyone? I'm just spit-balling ideas at this point, but I do think this is a season you could hit the reset button and still make the playoffs. I'd like to see them do that as opposed to what I'm seeing now.

[Chef]

another thing. what the hell does larry do during timeouts at the end of games when we need a last second shot. i see him writing on the board but the guys come out and it looks like they haven't practiced a day in their lives?

[DY_nasty]

what the hell does larry do during timeouts at the end of games when we need a last second shot.
Hall of Fame coaching

[dav7z]

Its clear Felton ran this damn team , Not with his abilitys but his attitude . Put the blame on my back attitude. He accepted the blame and came out leading by example. Should all that responability fall on DJ nooooooooo DJ is a solid player looking up to players like Wallace and Jax to put the team on thair backs . But truth be told Wallace and JAX has both crumbled , neither has been able to lay it all on the line like Felton did . We as a team have a few choices , Move DJ , and Boris or Jax or Wallace and put another patch on the team again.Or Blow up the whole roster , Try to land a few good draft picks and Young players . [Mayo, Williams along with TT and DJ might be a good place to start. Or we can try to right the ship with what we have. Whitch i don't think is good for the team long term. Or good for the fans now.

[ballwhore]

We will see how this goes team meeting called as I type by DJ for tomorrow. Not any players only sh#t either LB included getting shit off his chest. We'll see how this goes maybe he'll get run out of town (Which i would love) or start opening up a can of whip ass and hooping like circa 2007. Let's see..He said they talk about each other so he is not worried about that but since they waiting to be lead no need for them to keep pretending they are the leaders. Wellll seeeeee

[ballwhore]

Whats even more crazy he had no idea of the comments until. I asked him about the sh#t. Playing on side of teamamtes that calling you weak that you just left practie and they were in your face dapping you up. Uh...Uh...Uh. I don't care if it was directed at the front office. Be a man and put your feelings on the table at all these long as practices we having not the media just not cool. That is my opinion.

[TheBeagle]

At this point, with this team, with the "Vets" publicly displaying their shitty attitudes - I don't FEAR blowing it up, I'm embracing it and hope it happens soon. I've had it with this team and it's time for change.

Yessir! And I mean massive change. I mean, I don't even like the youngs on this team. I liked UPS last year, but it seems he's turned into a bitch when he's on the court now. Every time he misses a shot, he stops and glares at the ref with this stupid look on his face like, 'Don't you know who I am?' and hopefully the ref responds correctly with 'Whodafuckareyou?' Maybe it's just being teammates with Jack and Tyrus have turned him this way or these are his true colors, but either way, I've massively cooled on Mr. Brown. My thoughts on Tyrus are available on the "Free Tyrus" thread. Henderson, well, he was showing improvement 'til his injury, but his ceiling is such that it doesn't even really matter. Jrue should've been the pick there ad nauseum. And poor DJ. I think he's been so mindfucked since he's been here, he may be a lost cause, at least here in Charlotte despite his solid play thus far as a starter. I'm pulling for him more than any other player on this fan-unfriendly roster, and he has the most upside of any of the youngs, but will he survive this season with his sanity?

And then we come to spectre's question on whether or not MJ will blow this shitstorm up, and I think Swedd nailed it. IF it happens it'll be too late and probably involve the wrong pieces being moved. More than likely though, MJ will be too stubborn to see the truth, and would rather have a dysfunctional team contending for the 8th seed all season than build a healthy team from the ground up that will probably miss out on the playoffs but at least be fun to pull for and build for the future.

And as one of the 2 or 3 non Boris-haters (he irked me last year and still does, but still haven't hated on the big guy) I appreciate the Boris-haters out there for at least recognizing how well he's played this year by comparison. Just for CK, I'm going to wear my signed Boris jersey to the next game I go to! :p All that said, I agree, it is tragic he has been our best player and I even think he'd admit as much.

[Proudiddy]

My whole "thought" was that Crash is saying that the FO was wrong in thinking all that you just said.



Again...isn't Crash admitting that HE can't fill the void in leadership?



Since we won 44 games with all those TOs maybe that wasn't one of our biggest problems after all.

I definitely agree everyone needs to look at themselves, but something has certainly changed from last year to this one. Everyone is quick to pin it all on Crash...but we are talking about a guy that has busted his ass continuously for virtually no reward til last season.

Maybe 18 games give or take changes all that for some of you guys...but to me what he thinks still means something.

I respect all of what Crash has done. But our FO has dangled everyone out there at sometime, Crash included. So he's not immune to it. Maybe what you're saying is right... Crash is just re-affirming what the FO said to expect with DJ. But as a player, a captain at that, saying this to me means he's given up. He doesn't believe in this team. If he misses Felton so bad, ship him to NY for Wilson Chandler and other pieces to match money. I don't care anymore, and as I said, I don't think his value is as high as we think league-wide.

I've been a Crash fan since day one. I've been a Crash fan since reading about him in SLAM as a teenager, when he was a high schooler (a little older than me) and followed him through Alabama, Sac, and to here now... But, what he's doing is inexcusable. Something really has changed since last year. And with him and Jack teaming up to bash DJ and/or make a pro-Felton aka pro-LB statement, then the lines have been drawn. DJ has done the right things and shown he's a legit PG and can do things Felton never did... Yet he's the silent bad guy in all of this? I have no respect for this statement from Crash and Jack at all. It's not what leaders do. Leaders take control and "LEAD" the way without complaining or groaning and waiting for someone to come save them. So Crash has shown he's not a leader now.


We will see how this goes team meeting called as I type by DJ for tomorrow. Not any players only sh#t either LB included getting shit off his chest. We'll see how this goes maybe he'll get run out of town (Which i would love) or start opening up a can of whip ass and hooping like circa 2007. Let's see..He said they talk about each other so he is not worried about that but since they waiting to be lead no need for them to keep pretending they are the leaders. Wellll seeeeee

Good. I hope we make a move one way or another. If they're gonna keep shitting on DJ, I hope for his sake he gets moved to a team that lets him play his game and respects him even though he didn't wear CAROLINA BLUE. I hope he calls all of them out on their shit. I'm hoping DJ stays and b/c of MJ's vote of confidence towards him, that we build around DJ. I think we'll get more pieces back for trading Crash and Jack too. But, as a I said, either way the lines have been drawn in the locker room, someone has to move, they won't be able to keep playing together...

[Proudiddy]

Whats even more crazy he had no idea of the comments until. I asked him about the sh#t. Playing on side of teamamtes that calling you weak that you just left practie and they were in your face dapping you up. Uh...Uh...Uh. I don't care if it was directed at the front office. Be a man and put your feelings on the table at all these long as practices we having not the media just not cool. That is my opinion.

That's my biggest problem with this and people don't understand why this pisses me off. It was gutless of Jack and Crash. I have NO respect for going to the media first and this shady, backhanded shit.

I've mentioned it before, and I'm not trying to parallel the two as they are two different levels of basketball, but when I was at juco we had the same stuff happen, just without the media. Players were going to different people saying different stuff and talking slick about other guys on the team, then smiling in your face and dapping you up in the hall and being kiss-asses during practice, just to show coach what good team players they are.

Jack and Crash are those guys right now. Company yes-men. Jack stabbing DJ in the back after all the warm and fuzzy talk early in the season about him protecting DJ from LB... BULLSHIT. I really, really hope we blow it up and send them packing now. I may be talking out of some emotion right now, but still, I have no tolerance for that shady behavior.

[BlockParty]

Update from Today's practice. Maybe the Captains started acting like Captains?

From Bonnell's blog: http://blogs.charlotte.com/inside_the_nba/2010/12/brown-best-practice-in-months.html



Brown: Best practice in months

Maybe all that blunt talk after the Charlotte Bobcats were blown out in Philadelphia Saturday did some good. Coach Larry Brown said Monday was the best practice the team has had in 2 1/2 months.

What was so different?

“We played harder, executed better, competed better, shared the ball better. Everything we’re talking about trying to accomplish,'' Brown described after a later-than-usual afternoon practice. "It all starts with competing and playing harder and I think they did that. They were much more responsible in trying to execute. All of them gave great effort.’’

“If we practice like this, compete like this, I think we’ll make a lot of progress. We haven’t practiced like this – this was great.

[DY_nasty]

I'd much rather Larry coach a great game than a great practice.

[Pepperz]

I'd much rather Larry coach a great game than a great practice.

Very fucking true, but we do have to start somewhere. Hopefully it transfer over to the games.

[ohara831]

Waiting on Ballwhore to give us an update after he talks with DJ again. Very interested in what happens there. This thing is starting to disintegrate before our eyes. A move better be made soon before we see a fight on the Court during a game - between all the Bobcat players, not involving the opposing team!

[Ghost Kat]

Diaw's the best player on the team right now.

Easily.

And yes it hurts to type this.

Really?.....How?

I'll agree Wallace hasn't been himself this year.....But Diaw is playing the same as he always does. He also has 18 TO's in the last five games and 22 ast. If thats our best player then we are doomed.

What makes things even worse then having a slow PF is having an old C. Nazr barely jumps when he tries to rebound. He misses dunks and lay ups which reminds me alot of Okafors offense. I see alot of mindlessly yip yap about Tyrus making bonehead plays and blah blah. Atleast he has the legs and energy to try. Being a vet doesn't mean you deserve to play. LB puts in Random Mcquire in over UPS...Good idea? LB will put Nazr in to guard more athletic C's....Good idea? This team has a PG and a ok back up.....NEED A CENTER!!!!! Badly....As much as ya'll yip about nothing its mindblowing the fact that Nazr is a starting C averaging 18 mins a game goes unnoticed. What good is he?

[Proudiddy]

Update from Today's practice. Maybe the Captains started acting like Captains?

From Bonnell's blog: http://blogs.charlotte.com/inside_the_nba/2010/12/brown-best-practice-in-months.html

This was probably before DJ found out what was said. Fuck a practice. The captains are posers.

[DY_nasty]

Really?.....How?

I'll agree Wallace hasn't been himself this year.....But Diaw is playing the same as he always does. He also has 18 TO's in the last five games and 22 ast. If thats our best player then we are doomed.

What makes things even worse then having a slow PF is having an old C. Nazr barely jumps when he tries to rebound. He misses dunks and lay ups which reminds me alot of Okafors offense. I see alot of mindlessly yip yap about Tyrus making bonehead plays and blah blah. Atleast he has the legs and energy to try. Being a vet doesn't mean you deserve to play. LB puts in Random Mcquire in over UPS...Good idea? LB will put Nazr in to guard more athletic C's....Good idea? This team has a PG and a ok back up.....NEED A CENTER!!!!! Badly....As much as ya'll yip about nothing its mindblowing the fact that Nazr is a starting C averaging 18 mins a game goes unnoticed. What good is he?While Jax is busy taking the first 3 quarters of games off and Crash is occupied not giving a damn on defense, Diaw's found a way to be the best low post defender. He's done great as a facilitator, moving the ball when no one else will - he may not have a lot of direct assists, but the offense moves much better with him than without him. He's done the best job of getting into the lane and creating by far. When it comes to getting position, he's easily one of the best in the league as of right now too. He seems to mesh well with just about everyone that Larry feels like throwing out there as well.

Please don't make compliment Diaw again... I feel dirty now.

[Ghost Kat]

You know what I hate most about Diaw...Its how he jugs back up up court. Maybe thats just the way he runs but something about it irritants me. When he misses a shot or turns the ball over then does that feminine trot, I swear i see the bitch in him.

I have to ask a honest question though how does this team make the playoffs with a senior citizen as the starting C ? I mean it's not like we can trade him or Diop. But Nazr as the defensive anchor, Please! Not once in his career has he ever done that. The lane is wide open on any given play. We have no shot blocker/rebounder in the starting group other then Wallace. Getting a center is the turning point for this team. Atleast last year we had stone hands Tyson and the shot blocking zombie. This year....Thats why the defense has fallen off....thats why we lose

[coachcdobbs]

Look,

I think everyone needs to calm down. We are one game out of a playoff spot in the east, and to think for a second that those feelings are news to anyone in that lockerroom is a joke. Im sure it isnt the first time DJ has heard those frustrations from those guys.

Everyone wants to give Jackson and Wallace a hard time because they said what they thought, and now because we are 6 games under .500 we want to blow the whole thing up. Get real... if we didnt have either one of those guys would probably wouldnt have won a game this year. They arent having bad years statistically. They are stating the obvious, that when you trade the starting PG and the starting Center you probably arent going to be that good unless you are able to replace them with something comparable, and we really havent. DJ statistically is doing fine, he is 2nd in the league in AST/TO ratio and his numbers are very comparable to what Felton was putting up last year. He just isnt the leader that Felton was. As for the Center situation we have one seven-footer active every night. Diop doesnt even suit up. Thats a problem. Nazr and Tyrus just cant compete every night with Centers in the NBA, they just cant. We got rid of our best players at the probably the two most important positions on a basketball team in our PG and our C.

If anyone here is to blame it is Larry Brown. I know everyone in town loves Larry Brown, and I do too, but I think its time he was held accountable. His roster moves have put us in this situation, and by his roster moves I mean Rod Higgins and Jordan giving in to whatever LB wants to do because he has such a good track record of moves such as drafting Darko (like that was completely Joe Dumars decision, haha give me a freakin break) over possibly three hall-of-famers, trading Matt Carroll and Ryan Hollins for Desagana Diop, a guy who doesnt even suit up, only to get Matt Carroll back two years later with his bad contract. He trades Chandler and Ajinca, who was a first round pick that LB missed the mark on (havent we seen that before, LB missing the mark in the first round on a big guy) for Erick Dampier, Eduardo Najera, and Matt Carroll. How many of those guys are starting or contributing huge minutes for us? Did I mention we probably wouldnt be in the PG/C mess we are in if we had just taken Lopez over Augustin? Thats another story and I wont beat a dead horse on that one. But, if we had Lopez we probably still have Felton because DJ never ends up here. Sorry to ramble but I just think its time that he really be held accountable for some of these roster moves. Now, some have worked out well! The Jackson move was a good one, and others. But as far as I am concerned he needs to let the GM and management focus on the roster moves and he needs to coach this team that HE put together. Because right now they just arent that great.

All of that said, the season is young, and those soundbites were after losing on the road on the back-end of a back-to-back to a bad team after we gave very bad effort. If we are 40 games into the season and we are 14-26, then I understand making some serious changes, but right now lets just be patient. We started off terrible last year too, not nearly the same roster, but Im just saying.

[DY_nasty]

I think everyone needs to just flip channels on League Pass to look at some other teams so that you can really grasp how bad this team is on both ends of the court. Outside of the Cavs and Pistons, the Bobcats are arguably the ugliest, most painful team to watch in the league - especially when you take into consideration that this team was supposed to have two all-star candidates and a hall of fame coach running the show. Its extremely disappointing to say the least...

[Fred Williamson]

I have to ask a honest question though how does this team make the playoffs with a senior citizen as the starting C ? I mean it's not like we can trade him or Diop. But Nazr as the defensive anchor...

uhm, Newsflash, we will not make the playoffs. And there is no one on this forum who even thinks about playoffs, besides you maybe.

[BlockParty]

I still think they will make the playoffs...but this video is all too appropriate at the moment.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3-eavMSBnk

[ziggy]

The bottom of the Eastern Conference is so bad, we could probably get in with 37 wins. The playoffs are still realistic, but it would be even more realistic with some roster changes.

[spectre]

From the write up for tonights' game on Bobcats' Break:


The problem that unfolded in the first session was the Bobcats inability to guard the 3-point line, most notably second year guard Jodie Meeks. Meeks sank six consecutive 3-pointers and finished the quarter with 20 points. The Bobcats reduced the lead to less than 10-points in the second period but never came closer than eight.

“It was different having a 7-footer (Tyson Chandler) back there blocking shots,” said Stephen Jackson. “It’s a totally different defensive team. It looks like we don’t trust each other on the offensive or defensive end. D.J. and I were talking, and we agreed that we look like an AAU team right now. So some way, we have to get it together, get on the same page and figure this thing out because it looks real bad right now.”

[ballwhore]

Look,

I think everyone needs to calm down. We are one game out of a playoff spot in the east, and to think for a second that those feelings are news to anyone in that lockerroom is a joke. Im sure it isnt the first time DJ has heard those frustrations from those guys.


Actually it is the first time he has heard them say that and the messed up part about it is we all heard the sh#t before even he did and it wasn't heard it was read. You don't get that? Rather it's truth or fiction be a man about sh#t. We all knew what was being said by the CAPTAINS before he did. I feel like you we are basically at the same point we were last year. It took a move to get better so why not make a move. Be it DJ, Jax, Crash who gives a d@mn this is a borderline boring group to watch in a win. Watching losses is tens times as bad. The CAPTAINS are saying they don't believe so why should we?

[Chef]

Be it DJ, Jax, Crash who gives a d@mn this is a borderline boring group to watch in a win. Watching losses is tens times as bad.

i disagree. they aren't borderline boring they are very boring. if i wasn't a diehard i couldn't stomach any of their games. too slow a pace, sloppy offense, poor defensive intensity etc. i would love to get to a point where i just buy any saturday home game (i travel from durham so mid week is out) instead of pick games based on who we are playing.

i say keep dj. we are going to get another coach. dj is a good point guard and can flourish under the right coach/system. build around him. everyone else including TT is fair trade bait.

[Fred Williamson]

DJ is solid but come on, you can't "build around him". He's an average starter, or good backup. nothing more, nothing less.

I pray to god we will see Kyrie Irving in a bobcats jersey next year

[Chef]

DJ is solid but come on, you can't "build around him". He's an average starter, or good backup. nothing more, nothing less.

I pray to god we will see Kyrie Irving in a bobcats jersey next year

well sure. i would take kyrie over dj anyday. but on dj's contract for his performance he is a very good start. it would be hard to get equal value play and pay wise for him.

[ballwhore]

I don't see any young point guard flourishing under Larry Brown..ZERO!

[Chef]

I don't see any young point guard flourishing under Larry Brown..ZERO!

this about sums it up

Disco (Chicago)


Compare the current Ray Felton to the one that Jameer stomped all over in the playoffs
Chris Sheridan
(2:24 PM)


The new Raymond (his preference, rather than Ray) has the newfound freedom of not having to think twice about coming downcourt and firing away. If he did that in Charlotte, he'd be watching D.J. Augustine run to the scorers table second later. As Larry Brown joked when the Bobcats came to MSG, it's like Felton has been let out of prison.

[ballwhore]

Yet his appoarch still is to keep tight reigns on his point guard. Even when we played New Orleans I remember CP3 saying in an interview DJ is a good player LB needs to turn him loose. It's just amazing to me how many players barely got minutes under LB but are prospering else where....Whatever though

[Chef]

Yet his appoarch still is to keep tight reigns on his point guard. Even when we played New Orleans I remember CP3 saying in an interview DJ is a good player LB needs to turn him loose. It's just amazing to me how many players barely got minutes under LB but are prospering else where....Whatever though

hey he is a hall of fame coach though right? right? so what if every team is left in utter destruction and turmoil when he leaves.

[ballwhore]

Every last one of them..It ain't sh#t to get 1000 wins when you coach 50 years. See Lenny Wilkens and Don Nelson...

[spectre]

hey he is a hall of fame coach though right? right? so what if every team is left in utter destruction and turmoil when he leaves.

But can you argue that LB didn't help Felton...that he'd be as good today in NY if he'd never played under LB at all?

[DY_nasty]

But can you argue that LB didn't help Felton...that he'd be as good today in NY if he'd never played under LB at all?
Hall of Fame coaches know that they have to challenge their players by not taking advantage of their strengths.

[Chef]

But can you argue that LB didn't help Felton...that he'd be as good today in NY if he'd never played under LB at all?

so could a good assistant coach. LB destroys teams long term in order to win a few games for his record.

[Ghost Kat]

uhm, Newsflash, we will not make the playoffs. And there is no one on this forum who even thinks about playoffs, besides you maybe.

If you think this team is so bad....Maybe you shouldn't post anymore.

Save yourself the heartache of looking silly

[spectre]

so could a good assistant coach.

Maybe...but so far other than LB that hasn't happened here in Charlotte.

Not every PG can learn/flourish under LB, but I think Felton was the exact kind of player LB can improve. He has the fortitude & self confidence to take the constant bashing and turn it into what it's supposed to be. LB made Felton "slow down" and look at more of the overall game. The half court wasn't Felton's strong suit by any stretch...but once he got into a system that plays to his strengths he's reaping the rewards from what LB taught him.

I have no doubt that if Felton had went to NY without his time under LB they would have already run him outta town.

DJ is a lot murkier. He's not strong in the things LB values and I have no doubt he's caught more than his fair share of pettiness from the old man this year. In LB's mind we went backwards talentwise...and in his mind he came here to get better. I think he's still a little bitter about it and he's probably taking it out on DJ & on Nazr (cuz he ain't Theo or TC).

If he succeeds...and I'm sure he will...I have no doubt DJ will look back on his time with LB and realize what the old man was preaching to him actually helped get him to that point.

[Chef]

Maybe...but so far other than LB that hasn't happened here in Charlotte.

Not every PG can learn/flourish under LB, but I think Felton was the exact kind of player LB can improve. He has the fortitude & self confidence to take the constant bashing and turn it into what it's supposed to be. LB made Felton "slow down" and look at more of the overall game. The half court wasn't Felton's strong suit by any stretch...but once he got into a system that plays to his strengths he's reaping the rewards from what LB taught him.

I have no doubt that if Felton had went to NY without his time under LB they would have already run him outta town.

DJ is a lot murkier. He's not strong in the things LB values and I have no doubt he's caught more than his fair share of pettiness from the old man this year. In LB's mind we went backwards talentwise...and in his mind he came here to get better. I think he's still a little bitter about it and he's probably taking it out on DJ & on Nazr (cuz he ain't Theo or TC).

If he succeeds...and I'm sure he will...I have no doubt DJ will look back on his time with LB and realize what the old man was preaching to him actually helped get him to that point.

great points. right now the national media is giving amare all the credit for the knicks decent start. but, i can't help to think that ray is a nice locker room leader and general stabilizer to the team. everyone says that d'antoni's system drives up numbers with high shot volumes etc and it does, but it takes a lot of responsibility on the pg's part to manage it all.

[spectre]

I think that PER is supposed to be pace adjusted (a stat head can clarify if they wish), and he's went from around average/below average with us...14-15 range...to a whopping 19.9.

Ama're does get most of the credit but Felton is starting to get it too. Heaven help the boy tho if his numbers end up going south and balancing it out. NY ain't kind if you aren't doing great.

[SWedd523]

It's pace adjusted to where a league average is 15.00

[110oldeast]

It's sad that it took a SCAPEGOAT in Felton to leave for folks to see the issues with this team and some of the BS coverage that it has gotten locally including the overhyping of our wings by folks as being Bron and Wade lite last year. The issues aren't new, we just can't lump the blame on Felton for it happening. I think DJ is playing a solid role and blending, deferring to the other guys to lead, but by NO FAULT OF HIS, the Bonnell proclaimed Batman and Robin that folks tried to act like carried us to the playoffs did not and cannot (this year, a team 5 games under .500 can possibly get in, however). I think what we need is for DJ to LEAVE HIS IMPRINT on the game more. I think DJ has been strong in ball protection, but I think he needs to be even more assertive with the ball even if it means slightly more turnovers. Contrary to the popular propaganda, Felton (2.1 TOs only 0.4 more than DJ) was not the issue with our team TOs. We are in the EXACT same spot this year with TOs (29th NBA) and average 1.2 more TOs despite Felton not being here. The problem is the team makeup and style.

I have said for the last SEVERAL years that we did not value WING shooting enough here and had folks routinely say you need pgs to spread the floor. I said before and will again that this is ass backwards unless you have a Bron, Kobe, or Wade. The Magic exploited us last year, b/c the wings could not help off 3 pt shooters and b/c our gameplan was inexplicably to stop Dwight Howard which led to our bigs hugging his big ass, not showing on a screen and giving Jameer Nelson free reign in the space the SHOOTERS CREATED. Now it was convenient as hell to throw Felton under the bus, but this year shows that he masked more issues with this team than he created. Hell, Felton shot 46% and 39% from 3 last year and it wasn't enough due to our OTHER shooting deficiencies.

When you have 2 wings who are mediocre spot up shooters (and we do), you have to GET OUT AND RUN. That's why this team and its current pg can succeed more this way. The halfcourt lane is always crowded when other teams don't respect your perimeter shooting. I said before with Felton and I say it this year with DJ, offensively we need to run more to hide the deficiencies of our players in the halfcourt. Gerald has been steadily getting scouted out since he made the all-star team and Jack is a hit or miss iso player who kills scub teams or good teams if there is a blowout on either end.

(Continued in next post)

[110oldeast]

(Continued from above)

The thing about Jack is he HUSTLES this city with things like "I make love to pressure." He bamboozled folks with the help of Bonnell's pen into thinking that he is the leader and the man in the clutch. But that was not the case then and it hasn't been this year. Did he make any fts late in games? Sure. How has it turned out when he was given the ball to make a play in the clutch?

spectre is all over it in that DJ has to be the man to step up more in the clutch. He can score and gets more calls than anyone else on the team while being a solid FT shooter. People hated it about Felton, but the kid made more clutch plays than he is given credit for here. He may have made 1 of 2 in some situations, but he also made 4-10 straight in other situations here. He also certainly made more fgs and gave a good opportunity for the team. I saw a stat on NBA tonight that said he was #3 in FG made in the final 24 seconds of 1 possession games in the last 2 seasons.

#1 Dirk--9 fg made 64%fg
#2 Kobe--8 fg made 47%fg
#3 Felton--7 fg made 58%fg

I have no problem admitting that I loved Felton despite his lack of "smoothness" and thought he was undervalued. One of the things I liked is that he was not afraid of the criticism and was willing to put himself out there in hopes of winning. For this team as it is constructed, I think DJ has done a good job of blending, but for them to take the next step, they need him to leave his imprint. If he has no TOs, then he needs to keep making plays until he does. The offense was best last year when Ray and DJ ASSERTIVELY ran the offense. Last year, defense for Felton in the playoffs was not my issue but the lack of assertiveness on offense. To beat good teams, he was an integral part (Crash and Jack could blow up against the bad teams but not carry us against good one) and DJ has to step in here.

He has to be not afraid to make the mistake, whether in shot or TOs. You have to be willing to take the criticism. The 2 guys we have, pretty much have ONLY gotten praise since they have been here and have not shown themselves to be willing to step up and own the failures. I don't know that this is DJ's personality, but I know that for this team, that I would rather him step up down the road than to leave it all on the shoulders of our wings who I said last year and maintain are 3rd options at best, but our 1st and 2nd by default.

We have overrated them. But at this point, hopefully folks are seeing the light. If DJ continues to blend, I will not fault him as he did not construct this team, nor is he making them play a lot of halfcourt ball. I can only hope that we get out and run more and not just against Western teams who like to run and that DJ continues to get comfortable in himself and be willing to make the big play or big mistake in the clutch. If this team is going to progress, it will be necessary.



It's sad that it took a SCAPEGOAT in Felton to leave for folks to see the issues with this team and some of the BS coverage that it has gotten locally including the overhyping of our wings by folks as being Bron and Wade lite last year. The issues aren't new, we just can't lump the blame on Felton for it happening. I think DJ is playing a solid role and blending, deferring to the other guys to lead, but by NO FAULT OF HIS, the Bonnell proclaimed Batman and Robin that folks tried to act like carried us to the playoffs did not and cannot (this year, a team 5 games under .500 can possibly get in, however). I think what we need is for DJ to LEAVE HIS IMPRINT on the game more. I think DJ has been strong in ball protection, but I think he needs to be even more assertive with the ball even if it means slightly more turnovers. Contrary to the popular propaganda, Felton (2.1 TOs only 0.4 more than DJ) was not the issue with our team TOs. We are in the EXACT same spot this year with TOs (29th NBA) and average 1.2 more TOs despite Felton not being here. The problem is the team makeup and style.

I have said for the last SEVERAL years that we did not value WING shooting enough here and had folks routinely say you need pgs to spread the floor. I said before and will again that this is ass backwards unless you have a Bron, Kobe, or Wade. The Magic exploited us last year, b/c the wings could not help off 3 pt shooters and b/c our gameplan was inexplicably to stop Dwight Howard which led to our bigs hugging his big ass, not showing on a screen and giving Jameer Nelson free reign in the space the SHOOTERS CREATED. Now it was convenient as hell to throw Felton under the bus, but this year shows that he masked more issues with this team than he created. Hell, Felton shot 46% and 39% from 3 last year and it wasn't enough due to our OTHER shooting deficiencies.

When you have 2 wings who are mediocre spot up shooters (and we do), you have to GET OUT AND RUN. That's why this team and its current pg can succeed more this way. The halfcourt lane is always crowded when other teams don't respect your perimeter shooting. I said before with Felton and I say it this year with DJ, offensively we need to run more to hide the deficiencies of our players in the halfcourt. Gerald has been steadily getting scouted out since he made the all-star team and Jack is a hit or miss iso player who kills scub teams or good teams if there is a blowout on either end.

(Continued in next post)

[Chef]

(Continued from above)

The thing about Jack is he HUSTLES this city with things like "I make love to pressure." He bamboozled folks with the help of Bonnell's pen into thinking that he is the leader and the man in the clutch. But that was not the case then and it hasn't been this year. Did he make any fts late in games? Sure. How has it turned out when he was given the ball to make a play in the clutch?

spectre is all over it in that DJ has to be the man to step up more in the clutch. He can score and gets more calls than anyone else on the team while being a solid FT shooter. People hated it about Felton, but the kid made more clutch plays than he is given credit for here. He may have made 1 of 2 in some situations, but he also made 4-10 straight in other situations here. He also certainly made more fgs and gave a good opportunity for the team. I saw a stat on NBA tonight that said he was #3 in FG made in the final 24 seconds of 1 possession games in the last 2 seasons.

#1 Dirk--9 fg made 64%fg
#2 Kobe--8 fg made 47%fg
#3 Felton--7 fg made 58%fg

I have no problem admitting that I loved Felton despite his lack of "smoothness" and thought he was undervalued. One of the things I liked is that he was not afraid of the criticism and was willing to put himself out there in hopes of winning. For this team as it is constructed, I think DJ has done a good job of blending, but for them to take the next step, they need him to leave his imprint. If he has no TOs, then he needs to keep making plays until he does. The offense was best last year when Ray and DJ ASSERTIVELY ran the offense. Last year, defense for Felton in the playoffs was not my issue but the lack of assertiveness on offense. To beat good teams, he was an integral part (Crash and Jack could blow up against the bad teams but not carry us against good one) and DJ has to step in here.

He has to be not afraid to make the mistake, whether in shot or TOs. You have to be willing to take the criticism. The 2 guys we have, pretty much have ONLY gotten praise since they have been here and have not shown themselves to be willing to step up and own the failures. I don't know that this is DJ's personality, but I know that for this team, that I would rather him step up down the road than to leave it all on the shoulders of our wings who I said last year and maintain are 3rd options at best, but our 1st and 2nd by default.

We have overrated them. But at this point, hopefully folks are seeing the light. If DJ continues to blend, I will not fault him as he did not construct this team, nor is he making them play a lot of halfcourt ball. I can only hope that we get out and run more and not just against Western teams who like to run and that DJ continues to get comfortable in himself and be willing to make the big play or big mistake in the clutch. If this team is going to progress, it will be necessary.

agree with all of this. but, resigning felton (as i was pointing out all last year) is/was a catch 22. he wanted a 5 year deal for at least 8-9 per year. i don't think he is worth that considering we are/were so far off from a serious contender for conference finals. if he was the final piece of a great shooting guard (ray allen, jj reddick esque) and crash plus a real pf or center, i could see it even though he was overpaid because he is a very solid point guard and great great leader.

[110oldeast]

I wasn't bringing up the points I did to bring up his resigning (although I think we could have gotten him for less than that (7 per over that time period)--not to mention we spend that on TT who we use and plays sporadically. I think the 7.5 that he is getting in NYK is money well spent for them and not overpaying in the slightest.

I again think he has to do with the way players are utilized. This team last year and this team this year remains suited for more UPTEMPO ball. Defend, rebound, get it to the pg and get in transition. Too often, we have had limited transition outside of Crash doing it on his own, which works against the Timberwolves, but not the tougher teams.

The way it should run is rebound, his the pg on the outlet and fill the effing lanes. It should have been that way when Felton was here and it STILL should be that way not that DJ is here, giving our personnel. Teams with mediocre wing shooting have to get out on the break.

This has been the case with Atlanta and Philly the last couple of years and is even the case with the Heat this year. If you are going to be very halfcourt oriented, you better have strong wing shooters and be a fan of the 3 pt shot. It's a fact for the NBA. At some point, we have to stop fighting this fact and get on board by either running more or having more pure shooting on the wing.

Seriously, when you CONTINUALLY draft and bring in long, athletic guys who are OK at best 3 pt shooters (Henderson, Brown, McGuire, etc.) or guys who need time to load up and shoot like Jack and Crash, you NEED to be running. Because regardless of who your pg is (even board fave CP3), if you don't have clean 3 pt shooters, it will effect your halfcourt offense and require you to get out in transition to be offensively efficient.



agree with all of this. but, resigning felton (as i was pointing out all last year) is/was a catch 22. he wanted a 5 year deal for at least 8-9 per year. i don't think he is worth that considering we are/were so far off from a serious contender for conference finals. if he was the final piece of a great shooting guard (ray allen, jj reddick esque) and crash plus a real pf or center, i could see it even though he was overpaid because he is a very solid point guard and great great leader.

[ballwhore]

Hey..man! I agree with all that..so what's your take on the Mcquire/Brown/Tyrus playing time issue? I think Brown is going to be sent to the D but should he?

[Chef]

Hey..man! I agree with all that..so what's your take on the Mcquire/Brown/Tyrus playing time issue? I think Brown is going to be sent to the D but should he?

if you mean larry, at this point i agree he should be sent down.

[BlockParty]

UPS deserves playing time, especially if McGuire doesn't stop shooting (unless he's dunking) the ball. However, it's a Larry thing, so if UPS keeps getting DNP-CD, I hope they send him to Maine and he averages 20 points and 15 rebounds. That would highlight his abilities and maybe open Larry's eyes.

I also think the D-League would do Hendo some good for different reasons. It was mentioned in some article earlier this year that Hendo hasn't shown Larry enough in his play to warrant more minutes (the tone of which was you aren't working hard enough to prepare yourself). From what I understand about the D-League, it is night and day difference to the NBA, you are stuck on a bus traveling and most of the gyms are pretty small.

However..I also think Larry is being told by Rod and MJ...Hendo needs to play and be a part of your rotation so the D League probably won't happen for him. Remember it was Rod and MJ that told Larry, DJ is going to be your PG, make it work...so far, it's working out pretty good for Charlotte.

[teej]

if you mean larry, at this point i agree he should be sent down.

:D

Agreed.

[110oldeast]

Haha.

ballwhore,

Do I think that Brown should be in the D-league in general? Nope. But if we aren't going to play him, I say yes as sitting for this team is not doing a lot for the kid. I like Brown's potential and liked him more on draft day than Henderson. That said, like Henderson, he is another that would do well in transition. His best bet now however is to work to flourish as a versatile 4 man where has more quickness and more time to get his jumpshot (which can be good when he has time) off against guys who are bothered by his quickness. He can post as a 3, but on our team again, we need guys who can get OUT of the lane, not more who need to be in the lane.

The problem for me is that with Brown, McGuire, and Thomas are 3 versions of the SAME TYPE player. McGuire might be able to be more of a Wallace type 3 than the others, but they are still very similar. They are versatile combo forwards (3/4) and despite what Larry says, McGuire is not a 2/3. When you add in Boris Diaw as a starter, those minutes get crowded. This again reiterates why it might be valuable for D Brown to go get some time in the D to get some production, confidence, and for LB to sort out things more in the rotation/value of these guys before bringing D Brown back into the mix.

I think that if we are spending 8 per on Tyrus that he needs to get minutes and produce and that oddly due to Boris' use of his lower body and Tyrus' length that they can play well together at the 4 and 5 when we put out a small lineup. The problem for Tyrus is that his focus is too fleeting. I think that we have to work to get him in and involved early and use his energy productively. And he has to grow up and earn his contract. The onus in both coaching staff and player in his situation.

I don't know if that answers your question or not.



if you mean larry, at this point i agree he should be sent down.

[ballwhore]

Guys who do we replace Larry Brown with Roy Williams?

[BlockParty]

Guys who do we replace Larry Brown with Roy Williams?

Ziggy gets to pick the coach for each game at the morning shoot-around. My guess is, it would usually be BCP members.

[teej]

Guys who do we replace Larry Brown with Roy Williams?

Uh, no. Enough with the "Blue bloods."

Unless Hanners wants the job.

But other than him: Sam Mitchell, Nate McMillan (if Paul Allen goes crazy again, which is totally possible), Paul Silas or Lawrence Frank.

[ballwhore]

:confused:Brian Shaw?

[teej]

:confused:Brian Shaw?

He rejected Cleveland because he's pretty much assured of Phil's seat post-lockout.

[DY_nasty]

Other than Hanners being cheap, I don't see whats so good about him...(completely serious, not taking shots about the guy - just don't know a lot about him)

[Toocool]

Other than Hanners being cheap, I don't see whats so good about him...(completely serious, not taking shots about the guy - just don't know a lot about him)

Hanners isn't a talkative guy. But when he speaks, you better damn well shut up and listen. Plus he's studied under the master for quite some time, but probably isn't as insane. Did a great job with our SL team also.

[teej]

Pretty much what toocool said, he's soft-spoken but he's a super intelligent guy, he was able to get a Masters Degree in English Education while playing point guard for UNC. He's been LB's understudy for a long time, and everyone in the Bobcats organization loves him. Cool guy to be around, but also knows what he's doing.