Felton in NY

[dnbman]

Still love this guy. Glad to see him really blossoming, especially after last year's playoffs.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/Raymond-Felton-is-taking-off-in-New-York;_ylt=AhN_yBniOyTAxK93Imi_qs.8vLYF?urn=nba-292390

[110oldeast]

Love the dude. They are loving him in NYC. Glad to see him taking the things he picked up in slower game and getting back to uptempo ball and flourishing in a winning situation while being appreciated.


Still love this guy. Glad to see him really blossoming, especially after last year's playoffs.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/Raymond-Felton-is-taking-off-in-New-York;_ylt=AhN_yBniOyTAxK93Imi_qs.8vLYF?urn=nba-292390

[Chef]

not an insider so i can't read but this headline just goes to show media bias. he is playing no better or worse than he did here last year. he was good here last year (sans playoff series). now he is getting love because it is in NY

Pelton: Felton playing the best ball of career

[spectre]

not an insider so i can't read but this headline just goes to show media bias. he is playing no better or worse than he did here last year. he was good here last year (sans playoff series). now he is getting love because it is in NY

Pelton: Felton playing the best ball of career

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/f/feltora01.html

Look at the "Advanced" section and compare last year to this one. Going by that it certainly appears he's playing better...most likely because as most everyone has said he's now in an offense that suits his skillset better.

[Chef]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/f/feltora01.html

Look at the "Advanced" section and compare last year to this one. Going by that it certainly appears he's playing better...most likely because as most everyone has said he's now in an offense that suits his skillset better.

damn you and your stupid statistics. i guess this is the part where i argue sample size. i watched a few of his extended highlights on nbatv gamtime and to the eye he is doing the same things he was before but with a better spaced team and for once a good big man.

[spectre]

damn you and your stupid statistics. i guess this is the part where i argue sample size. i watched a few of his extended highlights on nbatv gamtime and to the eye he is doing the same things he was before but with a better spaced team and for once a good big man.

Oh absolutely all this should be preceeded with "so far". He had started out seasons looking really great with us too...and then he'd fall back to earth.

He really did fall into the perfect situation for him tho.

[BlockParty]

not an insider

Pelton: Felton playing the best ball of career

Here is the article



The Knicks' winning streak, which reached eight games on Sunday against the Denver Nuggets (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=den), has focused positive attention on newcomers Felton and Amare Stoudemire (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1727). In Felton's case, the storyline goes like this: After struggling initially in Mike D'Antoni's offense, he has gotten comfortable just in time to lead New York's surge. The numbers bear that out, but only to a point. While Felton is playing some of the best basketball of his career over the past 14 games, during which the Knicks have gone 13-1, his numbers were already sound during the first 11 games of the season.


Comparison: Raymond Felton's start, streak and last season in Charlotte

Split 2P% 3P% TS% Usg Ast% TO%
2009-10 .475 .385 .525 .193 .079 .154
First 11 .471 .383 .569 .165 .093 .186
Next 13 .533 .366 .583 .208 .105 .186
* Does not include Sunday's game


The impact of playing under point guard-friendly D'Antoni can be seen throughout Felton's stat line, including one category not shown here: 3-point attempts. Felton is shooting beyond the arc nearly twice as frequently, which explains why his true shooting percentage was so strong early in the season when his shooting percentages were basically the same as they were during his final season with the Charlotte Bobcats (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=cha). Felton also has the ball in his hands far more often, which has led to increased turnovers but also to the best assist rate of his career.



The big differences in Felton's recent performance might be attributable to improved execution on the pick-and-roll. First, Felton has become a greater scoring threat after being more of a pass-first point guard early in his tenure in New York. But that's nothing new for Felton, who used at least 21 percent of Charlotte's plays during his first four NBA seasons. At the same time, Felton has been more efficient as a scorer than ever because of his fine 2-point shooting. He has extended last season's improvement beyond the arc to become dangerous on long 2s, hitting 49.0 percent of his attempts from 16 to 23 feet, according to Hoopdata.com (http://www.hoopdata.com/player.aspx?name=Raymond%20Felton). That gives Felton the ability to pull up when teams go under screens and make them pay.

[Chef]

Here is the article

thanks bp. this is a perfect illustration of judging a book by its cover. the article is fair and thorough. i feel i owe an apology to the espn writer. on second thought...suck it.

[spectre]

LOL!

ESPN seems to bend over backwards to diss us, so one time from the other direction only helps to even it up!

I was looking thru Hoopdata on an unrelated note and it occurred to me that last year we were pretty high up in the league in regards to steals.

Last year Felton was 11th, Jax was 13th & Crash was 15th.

This year Jax is 30th & Crash is 35th. Felton is now 5th with the Knicks.

That's one helluva drop in "extra" possessions for us.

[110oldeast]

Felton not only got steals for himself, but pressured the ball in a way that made it easier for the wings to deny and get steals. That's what made it so crazy when he was hung out to dry for not being able to defend a pick and roll by himself with no hedge from the man defending the screener.

Felton was a damn fine player here and he is a damn fine one in NY, getting the chance to shine because when he kicks it out to the wings, they don't hesitate and knock down shots. He is in a situation where he can flourish, but I have preached on this board for several years that a large part of successful pg distribution is transition opportunities and having guys in the halfcourt who can just knock down jumpers when created.

The game that they didn't include was the Nuggets game where he had 19 pts and 17 assists to 2 TOs while making 4 of 5 FTs down the stretch and driving and setting up Chandler for a wide open go ahead 3. He's tied with Rondo and Nash for 3rd amongst PGs in double doubles only behind Russell Westbrook and Deron Williams. He's averaging 19 and 10 in his last 20 games (that's 1/4 of the season).

As to the defense, I saw that last year we were #1 in defensive efficiency and this year we are #12.


LOL!

ESPN seems to bend over backwards to diss us, so one time from the other direction only helps to even it up!

I was looking thru Hoopdata on an unrelated note and it occurred to me that last year we were pretty high up in the league in regards to steals.

Last year Felton was 11th, Jax was 13th & Crash was 15th.

This year Jax is 30th & Crash is 35th. Felton is now 5th with the Knicks.

That's one helluva drop in "extra" possessions for us.

[dnbman]

Felton had his first triple-double last night with 5 3's. 5 TOs were high, but he was still ballin'.

[110oldeast]

He is really flourishing. That was coming off a 28 pt 7 assist 0 TO performance against Parker and the Spurs. The crazy thing is last night wasn't even an "A" game for him.


Felton had his first triple-double last night with 5 3's. 5 TOs were high, but he was still ballin'.

[Pepperz]

Felton is just a by product of the guy down low. I seen some stats on ESPN the other day where he shoots BELOW 20% from the arc when Amare is not on the court compared to high 30ish when hes on. They shown that EVERY SINGLE STAT goes down drastically when he doesnt have the big man. He really has not gotten better as a player. :/

[dnbman]

Felton is just a by product of the guy down low. I seen some stats on ESPN the other day where he shoots BELOW 20% from the arc when Amare is not on the court compared to high 30ish when hes on. They shown that EVERY SINGLE STAT goes down drastically when he doesnt have the big man. He really has not gotten better as a player. :/

How many point guards don't get worse when the star player goes out? I'm not saying Felton is a HOF player all of a sudden, but he's clearly gotten better and flourished in NY. Let's not forget that Amare is also having a career year after playing with one of the best point guards the league has ever seen in Nash. Felton's been judged having never had a solid big man as a teammate. I think what we're seeing is how good Felton can be when he plays a quicker tempo and has a solid big to complement his game.

[Pepperz]

How many point guards don't get worse when the star player goes out? I'm not saying Felton is a HOF player all of a sudden, but he's clearly gotten better and flourished in NY. Let's not forget that Amare is also having a career year after playing with one of the best point guards the league has ever seen in Nash. Felton's been judged having never had a solid big man as a teammate. I think what we're seeing is how good Felton can be when he plays a quicker tempo and has a solid big to complement his game.

There is a difference from having a SLIGHT drop off in production when his teammate is out compared to he goes to complete shit when his teammate leaves the court. Does Tony Parker become an avg player all of a sudden when Timmy leaves the court? Felton is not a better player today then he was last year. A LOT of players can increase their stats when they play at a faster pace and with a big man but that is not because they got better but the system and people around got better.

[dnbman]

There is a difference from having a SLIGHT drop off in production when his teammate is out compared to he goes to complete shit when his teammate leaves the court. Does Tony Parker become an avg player all of a sudden when Timmy leaves the court? Felton is not a better player today then he was last year. A LOT of players can increase their stats when they play at a faster pace and with a big man but that is not because they got better but the system and people around got better.

If you want to judge the guy based on the few minutes a night when he plays without Amare, that's fine. However, he and Amare are basically leading a team that was terrible into respectability by being a quality two-way team. An average point guard would not make that much of a difference. Though, I agree that he's not necessarily that much better than last year. I think he was underrated most of the time he was in Charlotte seeing as how he never played with a solid inside presence.

[Pepperz]

If you want to judge the guy based on the few minutes a night when he plays without Amare, that's fine. However, he and Amare are basically leading a team that was terrible into respectability by being a quality two-way team. An average point guard would not make that much of a difference. Though, I agree that he's not necessarily that much better than last year. I think he was underrated most of the time he was in Charlotte seeing as how he never played with a solid inside presence.

Those "few" minutes a night add up when there are plenty of games, you can get a good sample size. Its not him and Amare leading the team. Its Amare leading the team from a terrible team to a respectable team. Dont get me wrong, he is a good PG compared to previous PGs in NYK but his stats only increase because of outside factors and not because he got better as a player. The major drop off in stats from when he has Amare to when he doesnt shows just how he really hasnt improved. He's the same ol Felton but with a big man down low. :/

[teej]

Maybe this is just me, but I'd gladly take the same Raymond Felton with a quality big man and not think twice, especially for seven and a half million per year...

[spectre]

Maybe this is just me, but I'd gladly take the same Raymond Felton with a quality big man and not think twice, especially for seven and a half million per year...

It's not just you.

I never get why some seemed mad at the guy for not becoming a star who can lead a team fulltime by himself. How many guys at 7.5 can do that? It's not like he's getting 12 per year.

If this is the same guy then we look all the more stupid for not retaining him and getting the complimentary pieces...which we do. Esp. since we let him walk for absolutely nothing.

[Pepperz]

Maybe this is just me, but I'd gladly take the same Raymond Felton with a quality big man and not think twice, especially for seven and a half million per year...

That's the key part in all of that.

[teej]

Spectre, I do disagree there. We offered him 5/40 and he said no, and its pretty clear we aren't going to have a quality big by the time his contract with the Knicks is up.

[spectre]

Spectre, I do disagree there. We offered him 5/40 and he said no, and its pretty clear we aren't going to have a quality big by the time his contract with the Knicks is up.

NY's deal is 2 years. You don't think we'll have a big within 5? Man that's depressing.

We should have traded him vs letting him walk for nothing. Walsh wanted him during that time and was offering Lee...but we said no. For Lee NY got Randolph, Turiaf & Azubuike in a S&T.

If we were going to be butt hurt about him refusing that contract so much that we go in another direction (Tyrus) and not even offer another contract to Felton we should have moved him then.

This giving away of assets (in letting Felton walk and getting the short end in trades) HAS to stop. We've been doing it since our inception and is part of the reason we're in this spot today.

[110oldeast]

How many Knicks games have you WATCHED with your eyes?

I suppose you watched him carve up Portland for 17 pts 14 assists and 0 TOs with many of them going to Tauriaf who has been hurt for much of the year.

He doesn't need a star big man, but the Knicks have next to NO depth there. THAT's what the issue is.


That's the key part in all of that.

[110oldeast]

teej,

We didn't offer him that. We offered him right at or under 6 million a year. If we offered him that, I think he signs that.

That said, he worked pretty well with Nazr. He simply needs a guy who can catch and finish. People who are summing it all up to Stoudemire are missing the issue of the Knicks being banged up and only going about 7 deep.

Felton is currently:

*Averaging 18.3 pts and 8.9 assists
*2nd among pgs in double doubles (Nash)
*2nd in the NBA in 20 pts 10 assist games (D. Williams)
*1 of 2 pgs in the league who is in the top 5 in pts (#4) and assists (#5) among pgs (D. Williams)
*Top 5 in pg steals and #6 in rebounds
* 6-3 record vs. Paul, Williams, Rose, Wesbtrook, Rondo, Parker, and Nash
* Averaged 21 pts and 10.5 assists in the 9 games against the above elite pgs

That's a damn fine season regardless of how many qualifiers folks want to make.

PS: That's not all about Amare Stoudemire. And if the Knicks picked up Ridenhour instead of Felton, they are not having the type of season they are, and very doubtful Luke has the kind of season Felton is having. Pepperz, you sound as if you have seen very few Knicks games and are just making assumptions without all the accompanying information.

Spectre, I do disagree there. We offered him 5/40 and he said no, and its pretty clear we aren't going to have a quality big by the time his contract with the Knicks is up.

[teej]

110oldeast, I absolutely guarantee that the team offered Ray 5 years at 40 million after the 08-09 season. ray fired his agent shortly after he declined the contract.

[110oldeast]

Are you SURE it wasn't 6 years 40 mill?

I got the impression it was slightly under 7 per and that by simply being at 7 per with one of the years being 7.5 or so, we could have signed him.

I thought we offered 6 for 40 and then the following summer offered him just under 6 mill per.


110oldeast, I absolutely guarantee that the team offered Ray 5 years at 40 million after the 08-09 season. ray fired his agent shortly after he declined the contract.

[teej]

Totally sure. No doubt.

[ballwhore]

Lately it seems the basketball god (to you guys) has come back down to earth.

[dnbman]

Lately it seems the basketball god (to you guys) has come back down to earth.

Dude. Just because DJ is your boy doesn't mean you need to take shots at Felton. Guy's a local product and a good baller. I'm glad to see him be successful.

[ballwhore]

Dude DJ plays for the bobcats and shots are taken. So now don't mention Raymond unless it's about him tearing up the league? :g:

[CatNation]

Felton wasn't even really playing that much better than he had for us BEFORE this recent slump. He just went from Larry ball to D'Antoni ball AND added like 6mpg that he wasn't playing here. Its not a shock his stats went up. And now he's exhausted because he isn't used to it.

DJ put up basically the same stats as Felton under Larry, and like Raymond, is now flourishing under a new coach. DJ under Silas is basically doing what Ray is doing under D'Antoni...except in what..6 less minutes per game? I would like to see DJ per/36 under Silas vs Raymonds per36 under D'Antoni

DJ>Ray

[110oldeast]

I'm going to leave the DJ vs. Felton thing alone as I am supporting both guys, one as a Bobcat, the other as a former Bobcat who always left it all on the court. ballwhore, you need to take that shit elsewhere. And Catnation, it makes no sense to talk about how they both did under LB b/c there definitely was a difference that showed up with the team. Just leave it at DJ has played better under Silas and Felton has played better under D'Antoni.

And actually, Felton's coming down to Earth corresponds directly with him spraining his ankle (the Knicks said high ankle, but I don't think it could have been that, but it was something he should have sat out after) in a win @ Portland where he had 17 pts and 14 assists and then playing 40 minutes on a back to back directly after it against Utah. He likely would have been better shutting it down temporarily, but that is not in his nature. But, you aren't going to hear him say anything about it.

[dnbman]

I'm going to leave the DJ vs. Felton thing alone as I am supporting both guys, one as a Bobcat, the other as a former Bobcat who always left it all on the court. ballwhore, you need to take that shit elsewhere. And Catnation, it makes no sense to talk about how they both did under LB b/c there definitely was a difference that showed up with the team. Just leave it at DJ has played better under Silas and Felton has played better under D'Antoni.

And actually, Felton's coming down to Earth corresponds directly with him spraining his ankle (the Knicks said high ankle, but I don't think it could have been that, but it was something he should have sat out after) in a win @ Portland where he had 17 pts and 14 assists and then playing 40 minutes on a back to back directly after it against Utah. He likely would have been better shutting it down temporarily, but that is not in his nature. But, you aren't going to hear him say anything about it.

This. Go Felton. Go DJ.

[SWedd523]

This. Go Felton. Go DJ.


p.s. Fuck Emeka and Tyson.

[dnbman]

p.s. Fuck Emeka and Tyson.

hehe... yes. Moving on.

[ballwhore]

DnB..No! i'm taking the shit right here. This is a f#cking forum. I made a d@mn observation and you are poking your lips out about it, put your d@mn man suit on. I don't give a sh#t if Felton played for the bobcats or even lives under Time Warner arena a thread was started about how he is tearing sh#t up. I said not so much now and that's the case. Not so much now!

[dnbman]

DnB..No! i'm taking the shit right here. This is a f#cking forum. I made a d@mn observation and you are poking your lips out about it, put your d@mn man suit on. I don't give a sh#t if Felton played for the bobcats or even lives under Time Warner arena a thread was started about how he is tearing sh#t up. I said not so much now and that's the case. Not so much now!

Sorry. I forgot how gangsta you were bringing it on this message board, dog. You're right. This is a motherfuckin' forum! Live by the sword, die by the sword!

I'm going to get my man suit, my caps lock key, and a whole bunch of emoticons and go crazy up in this bitch! So watch the fuck out!

OH, and what 110oldeast said. Again.

[teej]

Enough. Let it go. Locked.