I don't post that often

[winthropbobcat]

but this is really getting embarrassing, we just got smoked by one of the worst teams in the league. LB continues to play Kwame Brown, Livingston, and McGuire more minutes than Tyrus Thomas, who is our best spark plug, and would be a double double guy if he started. WTF is going on w/ LB and this team. We have plenty of pieces for this team to be successful, what gives? Why not mix up the lineups to utilize the players we have that are best suited to play and contribute? I'm at a loss for words here. I don't know why LB doesn't look at starting DJ/JAX/Wallace/Tyrus/Diaw or Nazr. We have got to freaking do something. I understand Gerald is hurt, one would think Tyrus would start, but he's going w/ Dominic McGuire?? WTF is going on here. Please someone try and explain this for me.... Sorry just had to vent guys.

[dav7z]

but this is really getting embarrassing, we just got smoked by one of the worst teams in the league. LB continues to play Kwame Brown, Livingston, and McGuire more minutes than Tyrus Thomas, who is our best spark plug, and would be a double double guy if he started. WTF is going on w/ LB and this team. We have plenty of pieces for this team to be successful, what gives? Why not mix up the lineups to utilize the players we have that are best suited to play and contribute? I'm at a loss for words here. I don't know why LB doesn't look at starting DJ/JAX/Wallace/Tyrus/Diaw or Nazr. We have got to freaking do something. I understand Gerald is hurt, one would think Tyrus would start, but he's going w/ Dominic McGuire?? WTF is going on here. Please someone try and explain this for me.... Sorry just had to vent guys.

I have no idea whats going on none. I know im embarrasted . I had more hope under Ham Biscute . DJ sucked tonight and Brown finishes the game with him , Was it reward or punishment , Hindrick killed him . DJ can't seem to start a offensive set at all.
Jackson turns the ball over more than he shoots the ball and thats a lot, Jax jumper seems just ok but no where near decent[ a zone buster].
Mcquire hell he might be good on a AAU team . But the dude can't shoot as good as most high school players. Rebounds are nice but damn you need to be able to do more than that.
Nazz never has been a defencive stoper and couldn't do nothing against the young legs of McGee. He just couldn't match up .
Borris our best player this year . Never thiught i would say that ? But at least he looks like hes trying.

LB said put the blame on him . It not all Brown but hes right feilding a team looking like that. Has to be at as least partly on him.
Ive seen the blame passed all season from player to player coach to coach hear at the planet.
Im not a Basketball mind and know nothing about the game . But im all most embarresed to walk in to TWC tomorrow night, I would prefer he starts all the sub. They might show a little hustle. People talk abot a panic trade im sure MJ is about to make one . Because im ready to get fid of some of the crap we got off the floor. And who talked MJ in to thease off season signings needs thair ass fired.
Damn i could have done better in off season signings than who ever in the hell done this shit.

[Toocool]

I stopped watching half way. That was utterly pathetic. Disgusting. I'll probably be doing write up, so it'll give me the chance to rant and rave.

[TattoodCats4life]

Seriously, I don't know enough about the game to point to the problem, but in the last column on the box score the only zeros are Matt (DNP-CD) and McGuire.
Larry likes his "versatile" players, so they can slide a spot over if needed, but yet he's playing the worst 3 on our team to start instead of A:
DJ/Carroll/Jax/Diaw/Nazr or even better, DJ/Jax/Diaw/TT/Nazr

I can't image what kind of panic trade is coming, but we should know by next week.

[GoBobs]

Hindsight is 20/20 but Raymond Felton and Tyson Chandler are both having nice years so far. I think LB is a good coach. He can make an average team a little better and get them to the playoffs. Problem is that isn't a good long term development strategy in the NBA because of the way the draft is set up. If he had a talented group of natural scorers he could get them to play defense a little better and push them over the top.

Look at the difference in Raymond's stats this year. He is turning the ball over twice as much but averaging four more points and about three more assists. Now everyone is talking about what a great year he is having, but what is really the main difference? He is playing with aggression rather then trying not to make a mistake. I think we need to let it all hang out on offense. Don't worry about a turnover just get back and make a play. It doesn't matter if we don't turn it over all game, if we don't put it in the hoop enough we ain't going to win.

I think we miss Raymond Feltons leadership in the locker room too.

I still think we have a good team even though they aren't playing like it right now.

[GoBobs]

Also I am tired of all the McGuire hate. It isn't his fault what LB does with the minutes. He plays hard and despite his low fg% so far this season I think he is a pretty good player for the money we are paying him.

[dav7z]

Also I am tired of all the McGuire hate. It isn't his fault what LB does with the minutes. He plays hard and despite his low fg% so far this season I think he is a pretty good player for the money we are paying him.

I don't hate McGuire . But you can't honestly say this guy should start ? Flip is on the market now . Would have signed for a NBA min contract , You can't really belive McGuire is better than Flip.

We signed Livingston two years at 3.5 milion a year . Remember we signed him real early. It was a lot of vetran min contracts left when we signed him . Brown says he has the speed of a AAU player . Sad thing is he might be better than DJ.
You can't say that was a good signing either.
Do you really think our DUST CHIP was a good trade . It turned to two bad contracts and DUST.
Theo we could of signed him but we showed no instrest at all . So we end up with K Brown .;;; explain that..;;;;;;
And you try to justify starting McGuire ??????????? Over TT, UPS , Henderson , or even the Hammer . Hell the guy has done nothing in 4 years . I would rather have a dozen guys wanting back in the league. It is what it is a stupid signing on the Bobcats part very early in the off season . Hell the guy might be washing cars if it wasn't for L Brown. My question to you is how you justify all the love you have for the guy???

[teej]

I don't hate McGuire . But you can't honestly say this guy should start ? Flip is on the market now . Would have signed for a NBA min contract , You can't really belive McGuire is better than Flip.

No one said McGuire was better than Flip, and no one said he should start.


We signed Livingston two years at 3.5 milion a year . Remember we signed him real early. It was a lot of vetran min contracts left when we signed him . Brown says he has the speed of a AAU player . Sad thing is he might be better than DJ.
You can't say that was a good signing either.

I think Shaun will be a solid player down the road, and he is the one guy on the roster who could benefit from LB. Plus he has a voidable contract in the third year so he will be a trade piece.


Do you really think our DUST CHIP was a good trade . It turned to two bad contracts and DUST.

It was an all-in attempt to get either Melo, CP3 or both. And it kept the team out of the tax, which means it ended up saving MJ and the cash-strapped business side around 10 million dollars and gave the basketball ops side flexibility if they needed to add salary. It turned out differently than we would have liked, but if you have a chance to get a superstar, that's a trade you make 100 times out of 100.


Theo we could of signed him but we showed no instrest at all . So we end up with K Brown .;;; explain that..;;;;;;

They gave Theo an offer, and he declined only because he wants a ring. They showed plenty of interest, and had the Lakers not come calling, Theo would be in Charlotte right now. Kwame was by far the best big man available for the team and he's played decently for a minimum guy. he's better than that 6+ million guy sitting in a suit every game, so there's that...


And you try to justify starting McGuire ??????????? Over TT, UPS , Henderson , or even the Hammer . Hell the guy has done nothing in 4 years . I would rather have a dozen guys wanting back in the league. It is what it is a stupid signing on the Bobcats part very early in the off season . Hell the guy might be washing cars if it wasn't for L Brown. My question to you is how you justify all the love you have for the guy???

If McGuire wasn't forced to shoot the ball by his teammates, and wasn't forced to play 20+ minutes a game, he'd be a very good signing. He's a great defender, great rebounder and solid 2/3/4 matchup guy. But he's not a starter like LB is trying to make him and he's not worth more PT than Tyrus. He's better than UPS, he's miles ahead of Hendo (like everyone on the roster except Sherron and Gana) and Matt is not much better. We don't love him, but we respect that he tries to make do with what LB gives him. It's too much for him, but he tries like hell to make it work.

[Black]

Larry wants to be fired, Michael won't fire him. That's how it looks to me.

[dav7z]

No one said McGuire was better than Flip, and no one said he should start.
REPLY............................................. ....................................
Sone one did or we would have signed Flip? Browns starting him Why?



I think Shaun will be a solid player down the road, and he is the one guy on the roster who could benefit from LB. Plus he has a voidable contract in the third year so he will be a trade piece.
REPLY............................................. ...............................................
Livingston is a liability on defence , But might still be better than DJ. Livingston will never be worth 3.5 per Felton is just making six



It was an all-in attempt to get either Melo, CP3 or both. And it kept the team out of the tax, which means it ended up saving MJ and the cash-strapped business side around 10 million dollars and gave the basketball ops side flexibility if they needed to add salary. It turned out differently than we would have liked, but if you have a chance to get a superstar, that's a trade you make 100 times out of 100.
REPLY............................................. .................................................. .................................................. ................................................
I understand the thory , But if that was the case why did we sign Livingston , McGuire so early . Why would we take on six miliom in contracts you give away Chandler . Toghter thats over 10 mil . We had no room to do nothing after that any way? That wasn't a smart basketball desion taking on those contracts.



They gave Theo an offer, and he declined only because he wants a ring. They showed plenty of interest, and had the Lakers not come calling, Theo would be in Charlotte right now. Kwame was by far the best big man available for the team and he's played decently for a minimum guy. he's better than that 6+ million guy sitting in a suit every game, so there's that...
Reply............................................. .................................................. .................................................. ...............
Theo wasn't offered early because we had Damp , If he would have been treated right . I think he would have signed very earky with us ?
Remember he srarted for us the last half of the season. I never saw any link we offered Theo any thing , LINK PLEASE



If McGuire wasn't forced to shoot the ball by his teammates, and wasn't forced to play 20+ minutes a game, he'd be a very good signing. He's a great defender, great rebounder and solid 2/3/4 matchup guy. But he's not a starter like LB is trying to make him and he's not worth more PT than Tyrus. He's better than UPS, he's miles ahead of Hendo (like everyone on the roster except Sherron and Gana) and Matt is not much better. We don't love him, but we respect that he tries to make do with what LB gives him. It's too much for him, but he tries like hell to make it work.

Do you really belive McGuire would start on any other team in the NBA under any circumstance?
You can't really belive hes even close to UPS in ability . Mc has scored less in his last five games put toghter than UPS scored tonight, UPS played less time than Mc tonight but was even or with in one in rebounds , Mc ssored another goose egg tonight UPS SCORED 9 in less playing time. Mc scored another 0 tonight. Mc got absolutly abused by Young tonight. He couldn't keep YOUNG out of the lane , UPS did explain that.
Mc better than Hendo , ? Hendo scored tonight . Had a very nice steal and assist , Mc Had no assist? Or points ,or steals, but hes better than Hendo?

You would rather have him over G Green, Mccants, Flip , ?




TEE you must have never had knee sergery , Ive had 7 of them , The guys luckey to walk on the floor , But the speed you see out of Livingston now is about al you going to get. Whitch means he can't keep any NBA point out of the lane .;LB said he had the speed of a AAU player and Browns not lieing about that. And you think that was a good signing.

Damp still isn't playing ? Why do we not arrempt yo sign him . We 5 mil under the tax. Something could have been worked befor we releaced him . Do you see K Brown better than Damp?

I see you trying you defend all thease stupid moves. But i see no evidence at all thet thease moves was good.

Nothing personal im just call this disaster the way i see it . Im sure you don't see all the home games and all the crap thet goes on . Its one lazy noncareing bunch.

[CatNation]

lol @ Damp move still attempting to be justified with the Melo+CP3 stuff. Cmon now. Just admit our front office is this ridiculously pathetic, because its the truth.

[Absinthe]

The Bobcats are one of the worst teams in the league right now. Only second to Minnesota. Even a team like Toronto or the Clippers are better.

DJ is not a starting PG in the NBA. I want you guys to jot down a list of every starting PG in the NBA and then do a draft. Where would DJ be drafted? He'd be one of the last point guards taken. This team's embarrassing play isn't solely DJ's fault, I'm just illustrating that he is NOT the PG of the future for this team. He's a solid bench player, at most.

I think the main problem is a lack of overall talent. I don't like the way this team has been pieced together. Crash and Jax make one another redundant. Mohammed wouldn't even be a bench player on some teams, let alone a starting center. Letting Felton go and trying to replace him with DJ looks foolish. Trading away Chandler looks foolish (especially when your team is trotting out Mohammed). Kwame, Livingston, etc. are misfits, journeymen, draft busts, and many other things that pollute the bench. Larry Brown has checked out because a) he doesn't want to be here and b) he realizes that this team is one of the weakest teams in the league in terms of overall talent.

[Marvel]

but if you have a chance to get a superstar, that's a trade you make 100 times out of 100.



I'm glad you're not our GM then. If it's not guaranteed you don't. You don't ever make trades on assumptions or "chances". Come on now.

[Chef]

Seriously, I don't know enough about the game to point to the problem, but in the last column on the box score the only zeros are Matt (DNP-CD) and McGuire.
Larry likes his "versatile" players, so they can slide a spot over if needed, but yet he's playing the worst 3 on our team to start instead of A:
DJ/Carroll/Jax/Diaw/Nazr or even better, DJ/Jax/Diaw/TT/Nazr

I can't image what kind of panic trade is coming, but we should know by next week.

you don't have to know much about basketball. when you lose to a shit team like the wiz (with or without wall) by 30 points it has very little with x's and o's. it is about heart and pride. this team has none and the majority of that blame starts with our "hof" coach who has publicly given up this team because he misses his family. i can only imagine what his body language and attitude is behind closed doors where the team sees him most.

[Felton for Prez]

I can't image what kind of panic trade is coming, but we should know by next week.

We should start the over under at 7 days. I take the under.

[Chef]

We should start the over under at 7 days. I take the under.

at this point, i would be fine packaging diop with wallace for an expiring, then trading as many of our other guys for expirings only and start over next year with a new roster of free agents. i am at the point where i just don't want to watch any of these players anymore.

[ohara831]

Right now, Hollinger's automated Rankings at ESPN has us #28, behind only Sac. and Clev. But that has to be taken with a grain of salt. It also has Miami at #2 (21-9) and SAn Antonio #3 (24-3). Too much. ESPN is a LeBron butt kissing machine.

[Pepperz]

I'm glad you're not our GM then. If it's not guaranteed you don't. You don't ever make trades on assumptions or "chances". Come on now.

and Im glad you are not my GM. It was a gamble move that he tried to turn into something better. Sometimes you have to take a risk to make big gains. If he made the trade, everybody in here would praise him like a god. The sad truth is it didnt happen but I rather take A chance at getting a superstar then having NO chance at one.

[spectre]

and Im glad you are not my GM. It was a gamble move that he tried to turn into something better. Sometimes you have to take a risk to make big gains. If he made the trade, everybody in here would praise him like a god. The sad truth is it didnt happen but I rather take A chance at getting a superstar then having NO chance at one.

But he fell into the possibility...it's not like that was the master plan all along. Remember we were going to trade TC for the trade exception (along with the Boris/Caleron swap) Toronto has.

We went into the offseason with the plan to jettison TC & Felton for salary relief, not a home run.

[GoBobs]

The problem with out team is that we have a group of guys who have a bunch of nice basketball skills except shooting. We have some guys that can get a shot in a one on one (Jack) but we don't have anyone that can get other guys easy buckets out of a double team. Our only real shooters are either very streaky (Jack and DJ) or don't play at all (Carroll).

[teej]

@Dav:

Re McGuire: What I meant by that was no one on BCP said he was better than Flip and no one on BCP said he should start. I think the reason we didn't bring back Flip is MJ wanted Larry to play DJ, and Flip would've been Larry's excuse to say no.

Re Liv: I understand he's not going to be the same, but if we had a post defender that was decently quick, he'd be a major asset. His passing ability is still there and his scoring in the paint is amazing for a Point Guard, 6'7 or not. Compared to most NBA contracts I think he was paid decently, and he's still making less than Matt Caroll, and barely half of Gana's salary.

Re CP3/Melo: The Livingston and McGuire signings had no bearing on whether or not CP3 or Melo came. In fact, one could argue that Liv was signed to be CP3's backup (DJ would've been traded) and McGuire was signed in case Crash and UPS both had to be moved to get Melo. It had no effect salary-wise, and I guarantee you they knew what would and would not affect a possible Melo/CP3 trade.

Re Theo/Damp: Ask MT about Theo next time you see him, he told me we did offer. And Damp was offered the max we could (2.2 mil) to come back, he said 'no' and is now on the Heat. And yes, Kwame is better than Damp. Kwame's actually been really good for us.

Re McGuire again: No, he wouldn't start, but he's only starting here because there's no one else to put out there. UPS is not where he needs to be, and neither is Hendo. Boris is too big to start at SF and likewise for Tyrus. All Derrick ever does is get close to the bucket and put in layups. That's nice and has it's place, but if you play him more than 15-20 minutes then it's just deteriorating return. He's a bench player, and he plays NO defense. His defensive rotations are worse than Hendo's, and Hendo's are HORRIBLE. And Hendo is a decent man-to-man defender, but he has no J (at least UPS has one, he just doesn't use it) and because team's zone up on us, Hendo can't slash much if at all. And Hendo had 4 TO's against Washington. There's no excuse for that. I would take McGuire over Gerald Green and Rashad just because Green is a worse version of Derrick Brown and we have enough headcases that McCants wouldn't help anything. And Flip is nice, but he's a 1-2 and McGuire's a 3-4 who only plays 2 for matchups. That's non-sequitor.

@ CatNation/Marvel: They had (and still have with Melo) an opportunity to get a superstar. No team in the NBA outside the '04 Pistons has won without at least one legit megastar in the current incarnation of the game. And you look at all the good teams, most of them have two megastars, or two superstars and a third semi-star. There is no way for the 'Cats to win without a star, and MJ and Rod know it. They hoped Shinn would be cheap instead of eventually sell and give away CP3, and they hoped Denver would go for a total rebuild or try to get a replacement star, which Damp's contract would've helped with. I don't defend all the F.O. moves, but this one I always will. They took a risk to get someone, and so far it hasn't worked. Such is life. You have to have a little luck to win, and taking risks makes it easier to get lucky.

@Spectre, that Toronto TPE would've been used in the same way in a potential CP3/Melo trade. They just decided that getting rid of two starters for two scrubs wasn't worth it, and got the same value for one starter. (Damp)/Matt/Eddie is better than Caleron/Evans both contract wise and in letting DJ play. Evans is a better version of McGuire, so he wouldn't have helped either.

@absinthe, I think Chef and GoBobs answered your post indirectly, but let me say this. You can make the playoffs with this team on talent. It's the attitude of the "core" and the coach that's making things bad, and the "me-first" attitude that's permeated through the locker room that's made it worse. Watch the shots these guys take and the passes they try to make, and it's clear they aren't doing all they can do. And with no spacing on offense, they can't eliminate the zone teams play.

[spectre]

@Spectre, that Toronto TPE would've been used in the same way in a potential CP3/Melo trade. They just decided that getting rid of two starters for two scrubs wasn't worth it, and got the same value for one starter. (Damp)/Matt/Eddie is better than Caleron/Evans both contract wise and in letting DJ play. Evans is a better version of McGuire, so he wouldn't have helped either.

CP3's salary this year is 15.2 million. You can't combine exceptions with players or other exceptions...so the TPE wouldn't have worked in a trade for him or Melo. There's no way that was the plan when they were discussing the Toronto deal.

And even if it was why in the hell would they bring in Caleron's overpriced ass as a backup?

Don't buy it.

[ammofan]

@Dav:

Re McGuire: What I meant by that was no one on BCP said he was better than Flip and no one on BCP said he should start. I think the reason we didn't bring back Flip is MJ wanted Larry to play DJ, and Flip would've been Larry's excuse to say no.

Re Liv: I understand he's not going to be the same, but if we had a post defender that was decently quick, he'd be a major asset. His passing ability is still there and his scoring in the paint is amazing for a Point Guard, 6'7 or not. Compared to most NBA contracts I think he was paid decently, and he's still making less than Matt Caroll, and barely half of Gana's salary.

Re CP3/Melo: The Livingston and McGuire signings had no bearing on whether or not CP3 or Melo came. In fact, one could argue that Liv was signed to be CP3's backup (DJ would've been traded) and McGuire was signed in case Crash and UPS both had to be moved to get Melo. It had no effect salary-wise, and I guarantee you they knew what would and would not affect a possible Melo/CP3 trade.

Re Theo/Damp: Ask MT about Theo next time you see him, he told me we did offer. And Damp was offered the max we could (2.2 mil) to come back, he said 'no' and is now on the Heat. And yes, Kwame is better than Damp. Kwame's actually been really good for us.

Re McGuire again: No, he wouldn't start, but he's only starting here because there's no one else to put out there. UPS is not where he needs to be, and neither is Hendo. Boris is too big to start at SF and likewise for Tyrus. All Derrick ever does is get close to the bucket and put in layups. That's nice and has it's place, but if you play him more than 15-20 minutes then it's just deteriorating return. He's a bench player, and he plays NO defense. His defensive rotations are worse than Hendo's, and Hendo's are HORRIBLE. And Hendo is a decent man-to-man defender, but he has no J (at least UPS has one, he just doesn't use it) and because team's zone up on us, Hendo can't slash much if at all. And Hendo had 4 TO's against Washington. There's no excuse for that. I would take McGuire over Gerald Green and Rashad just because Green is a worse version of Derrick Brown and we have enough headcases that McCants wouldn't help anything. And Flip is nice, but he's a 1-2 and McGuire's a 3-4 who only plays 2 for matchups. That's non-sequitor.

@ CatNation/Marvel: They had (and still have with Melo) an opportunity to get a superstar. No team in the NBA outside the '04 Pistons has won without at least one legit megastar in the current incarnation of the game. And you look at all the good teams, most of them have two megastars, or two superstars and a third semi-star. There is no way for the 'Cats to win without a star, and MJ and Rod know it. They hoped Shinn would be cheap instead of eventually sell and give away CP3, and they hoped Denver would go for a total rebuild or try to get a replacement star, which Damp's contract would've helped with. I don't defend all the F.O. moves, but this one I always will. They took a risk to get someone, and so far it hasn't worked. Such is life. You have to have a little luck to win, and taking risks makes it easier to get lucky.

@Spectre, that Toronto TPE would've been used in the same way in a potential CP3/Melo trade. They just decided that getting rid of two starters for two scrubs wasn't worth it, and got the same value for one starter. (Damp)/Matt/Eddie is better than Caleron/Evans both contract wise and in letting DJ play. Evans is a better version of McGuire, so he wouldn't have helped either.

@absinthe, I think Chef and GoBobs answered your post indirectly, but let me say this. You can make the playoffs with this team on talent. It's the attitude of the "core" and the coach that's making things bad, and the "me-first" attitude that's permeated through the locker room that's made it worse. Watch the shots these guys take and the passes they try to make, and it's clear they aren't doing all they can do. And with no spacing on offense, they can't eliminate the zone teams play.

Dude, this is a message board, not a newspaper! lol