Baron Davis / LA Clippers trade discussion

[ziggy]

Splitting off a few of the trade topics from the "jumbo" trade thread.

In this topic we will continue the discussion of potential trades concerning the LA Clippers.

[spectre]

361

10 char

[SWedd523]

I am seriously laughing out loud at those thinking a trade for Baron is a good idea. I mean, seriously, LOL!


Stop living in the past folks. Allen Iverson is a bum. Tracy McGrady is a bum. Baron Davis is a bum. When your TEAM OWNER even heckles you in public, your trade value cannot go any lower. DJ absolutely does NOT need to be included in any Baron deal. The Pistons were talking Carroll/Diop for Rip Hamilton--who is better than Baron. So why add more in for a worse, less valuable player?


We're supposed to be blowing this shit up, not adding players that blew up when they got their last contract. $40mil for ONE terrible player is worse than $32 for two. It makes it even worse because when Baron's fat ass gets injured, we're looking at extended minutes for Shaun and Tank--excuse me while I go throw up.

Locking into Baron would show that the FO has no real plan and that they all need to be canned for Pritchard and his cronies.


The only, ONLY way I would ever consider Baron is if he brought Eric Gordon to town. And while the Clippers FO is filled with idiots, I don't think they're that bad.

[spectre]

I am seriously laughing out loud at those thinking a trade for Baron is a good idea. I mean, seriously, LOL!


Stop living in the past folks. Allen Iverson is a bum. Tracy McGrady is a bum. Baron Davis is a bum. When your TEAM OWNER even heckles you in public, your trade value cannot go any lower. DJ absolutely does NOT need to be included in any Baron deal. The Pistons were talking Carroll/Diop for Rip Hamilton--who is better than Baron. So why add more in for a worse, less valuable player?


We're supposed to be blowing this shit up, not adding players that blew up when they got their last contract. $40mil for ONE terrible player is worse than $32 for two. It makes it even worse because when Baron's fat ass gets injured, we're looking at extended minutes for Shaun and Tank--excuse me while I go throw up.

Locking into Baron would show that the FO has no real plan and that they all need to be canned for Pritchard and his cronies.


The only, ONLY way I would ever consider Baron is if he brought Eric Gordon to town. And while the Clippers FO is filled with idiots, I don't think they're that bad.

I remember once you said we didn't usually see eye to eye on the PGs. Hell, I'm considering just re-posting what you wrote and leave it at that from now on.

Well said.

[Black]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31g0YE61PLQ

[ziggy]

In my opinion this is swapping bad money and dead weight(B-Diddy) for bad money and dead weight(Diop/Carroll).

There is no way that this deal can help us in any way from a basketball perspective.

[Brad]

other than opening roster spots. Maybe they can make the Clips give us Kaman if we take Davis off their hands.

[SWedd523]

In my opinion this is swapping bad money and dead weight(B-Diddy) for bad money and dead weight(Diop/Carroll).

There is no way that this deal can help us in any way from a basketball perspective.

It's worse than just that actually.

1 player for $40
2 players for $32

You have to have 12 guys on an active roster. At least with Gana and Carroll we have two bums can can fill a roster spot AND save us $8mil. If we trade for Baron, that takes $8mil away from some other player we could sign to a deal, which means we have to pick up some other cheap bum. Think Linton Johnson III or Domibrick McGuire.


It just really isn't worth it as a standalone trade. After the add-salary-in-a-salary dump anal reaming we took from Dallas, I have lost all faith in the FO. A Baron trade without Gordon pushes me FIRMLY into the lollipop camp.

[dnbman]

Assuming the basic trade is in place -- Baron for DJ, Gana, and Carroll-- what else should reasonably be added to make this beneficial for the Cats?

[SWedd523]

Eric Motherfucking Gordon.





Or switch DJ for Najera.

[dnbman]

Eric Motherfucking Gordon.

Or switch DJ for Najera.

What about picks?

[SCBobcat]

For those who care about reality, I think Deandre Jordan would be added in with Baron to make it more even. We need a youthful center. That evens out the youth swap with us sending DJ, the Baron's contract is evened out by Hammer and Diop (to whatever extent you think).
It is almost certain that we will not be getting a sweetheart deal, so don't waste your time thinking about Eric Gordon.

[BRNC]

Eric Motherfucking Gordon. Or switch DJ for Najera.



That...and another PG (besides Davis)....a young center...two turtle Doves and a Partridge in a Pear tree....happy season all I got my Xmas gift early...

[BETCATS]

If we got DeAndre Jordan + a 2nd round pick or the unprotected Minny 1st round pick (and the cap space + 2 open roster spots) it gives us a number of opportunities for future moves.

Thabeet is on the block, Memphis is looking for a player that can push them into the playoffs. Stephen Jackson for Thabeet and OJ Mayo works. Or we could use the open roster spots to bring back Flip + a center from the NBDL.

As long as this isnt the last trade/move we make I am fine with it.

[The Prodigy]

Jeff Adrien is a FA I believe. He was with Golden State earlier this year and played pretty well. If we end up with room on the roster I think he would be a solid addition.

[ohara831]

Assuming the basic trade is in place -- Baron for DJ, Gana, and Carroll-- what else should reasonably be added to make this beneficial for the Cats?

MJ considering selling to Posthulos or however you spell his name.

[SWedd523]

If we got DeAndre Jordan + a 2nd round pick or the unprotected Minny 1st round pick (and the cap space + 2 open roster spots) it gives us a number of opportunities for future moves.

Thabeet is on the block, Memphis is looking for a player that can push them into the playoffs. Stephen Jackson for Thabeet and OJ Mayo works. Or we could use the open roster spots to bring back Flip + a center from the NBDL.

As long as this isnt the last trade/move we make I am fine with it.


What cap space do we open up? Paying more for 1 player than 2 means we add salary. Not to mention that we'd have to add EVEN MORE when we sign a new player.

[SCBobcat]

I could also see the FO floating info like this in order to entice NJ, Denver, Sacto or whoever else to move a little faster if they want to get a DJ, Harris, or other PG-related deal done. That may be giving to much credit to the Lollipop, but whatever.

[BRNC]

What cap space do we open up? Paying more for 1 player than 2 means we add salary. Not to mention that we'd have to add EVEN MORE when we sign a new player.

I can't see MJ adding salary either SWedd so the Clips idea makes no sense to me...and I'd really rather keep Davis and Jax (if we have to keep him) apart...I'd see a trade for Davis (at this point in time) as a real step backwards for the 'Cats...

[BETCATS]

What cap space do we open up? Paying more for 1 player than 2 means we add salary. Not to mention that we'd have to add EVEN MORE when we sign a new player.

If we just do the trade straight up we save a little money according to ESPN trade machine, and every penny counts for MJ.
If their is a CBA that leads to contract re structuring Davis will fall in line with that as well.

[winthropbobcat]

DJ is not a starting PG in the NBA, I don't even know why you guys care that we unload him. He can't defend, he's small, he's a back up PG at best. LB wasted our pick on him when we should of got Lopez. We are lucky to get anything for DJ IMO. A PG who can't defend and whos small, he's good for 6 or 7 assists per 40 min, pathetic. Baron is on a team of crap and averages 6 or 7 dimes in 20 min.

[SWedd523]

If we just do the trade straight up we save a little money according to ESPN trade machine, and every penny counts for MJ.
If their is a CBA that leads to contract re structuring Davis will fall in line with that as well.

Davis/min salary PG/min salary C = $44+ mil
DJ/Diop/Caroll = $42.63



We add nearly $3mil after signing a new PG and C that we'd definitely need after this trade.




This is just like that Tyson trade where we saved money but not really. (we added something like $15mil)

[SWedd523]

DJ is not a starting PG in the NBA, I don't even know why you guys care that we unload him. He can't defend, he's small, he's a back up PG at best. LB wasted our pick on him when we should of got Lopez. We are lucky to get anything for DJ IMO. A PG who can't defend and whos small, he's good for 6 or 7 assists per 40 min, pathetic. Baron is on a team of crap and averages 6 or 7 dimes in 20 min.


Things that Baron isn't at this point in his career:

1. cheap
2. skinny
3. a starting PG
4. efficient
5. a good defender

[spectre]

DJ is not a starting PG in the NBA, I don't even know why you guys care that we unload him. He can't defend, he's small, he's a back up PG at best. LB wasted our pick on him when we should of got Lopez. We are lucky to get anything for DJ IMO. A PG who can't defend and whos small, he's good for 6 or 7 assists per 40 min, pathetic. Baron is on a team of crap and averages 6 or 7 dimes in 20 min.

I don't really think he's a starting PG for most teams either, but no. of assists don't really bolster your position. We don't run the ball prmarily thru DJ...so 6 or 7 assists per 40 isn't really that bad.

He's a quality backup PG and those aren't really growing on trees. IMO he's a positive asset and not a throwaway.

[Mustachio]

DJ is not a starting PG in the NBA, I don't even know why you guys care that we unload him. He can't defend, he's small, he's a back up PG at best. LB wasted our pick on him when we should of got Lopez. We are lucky to get anything for DJ IMO. A PG who can't defend and whos small, he's good for 6 or 7 assists per 40 min, pathetic. Baron is on a team of crap and averages 6 or 7 dimes in 20 min.


Im pretty torn here. While I think Baron is well past his prime and has a ridiculous contract... its not like he would sit on the bench here. Carrol and Diop are the definition of dead weight. At least with Baron in a new situation away from the Clippers, he can be productive. I mean pay 13 million for nothing, or pay it for a starting PG. Losing DJ doesnt hurt my feelings at all.

However, I wouldnt do this trade at all unless we got Deandre Jordan, or the Minny pick or both. If they give us that, Id do it.

Baron/Liv/Collins
Jack/Hendo
Crash/Brown
Tyrus/Diaw/Brown
Nazr/Jordan/Kwame

Thats a much better looking lineup. I have been a fan of Jordan since he was an option for us in the draft. Looked really good last night too.

So you get an instant bump in talent, and you actually get some use out of the 13 million you had sitting on the bench (even if he is past his prime). New coach that lets players play. I mean i could see that working.

I think a real key here, is that in this trade you make the lineup a little better, hopefully add a pick and you really dont lose any trade pieces. I cant think of any other trade that would drop Diop and Carroll... and DJ isnt exactly a great trade value right now anyway. Im not a huge fan, Id much rather do the Harris trade, but if this is all we can do I think we could make it work.

[ammofan]

Steve why would you not give away Diop/Carroll/DJ for Baron.....sure he isnt as good as he used to be but he is still an experienced NBA vet. DJ isnt winning games for us and Baron hasnt been terrible this year for LA(If you have watched them.....)

[BRNC]

Baron has not been that productive...he is getting injured more often than not...and I seriously doubt he'd be happier going through a rebuild here than with the Clips...I just see Baron as a step back not anything going forward...

I 100% agree that DJ appears to be a back-up PG at this point but as someone else said why "give that away"...if we can't trade DJ for an upgrade at another position (or at PG for that matter) why bother...

[fallen xxi]

Yeah, those that say Baron can't defend or play anymore are either ignorant or just plain haven't looked into the situation. The guy is a veteran guard that still can pass, shoot, and be consistent. Yes, DJ has played well for us but he's been a liability for us since the beginning of this season. I feel more comfortable when Liv is on the court because at least he has the size to drive and draw a foul. DJ's offensive game is so one-dimensional as a starter and it's quite annoying to watch.

Someone said earlier that I agree with, let's make use out of that 13 mil and take Baron, get a draft pick, and try to draw DeAndre Jordan. It's a good plan.

[winthropbobcat]

Yeah, those that say Baron can't defend or play anymore are either ignorant or just plain haven't looked into the situation. The guy is a veteran guard that still can pass, shoot, and be consistent. Yes, DJ has played well for us but he's been a liability for us since the beginning of this season. I feel more comfortable when Liv is on the court because at least he has the size to drive and draw a foul. DJ's offensive game is so one-dimensional as a starter and it's quite annoying to watch.

Someone said earlier that I agree with, let's make use out of that 13 mil and take Baron, get a draft pick, and try to draw DeAndre Jordan. It's a good plan.

I totally agree man. Baron is a great veteran PG who can simply do NO WORSE and more than likely MUCH better than DJ has done. Plus we get to dump DIOP and CARROLL. I do not see how this is a bad deal for us at all.

[TheLegend]

Just give me Eric Gordon.......

[winthropbobcat]

if we can get Baron and a pick or another player (kaman or jordan), this is a steal in my mind giving up a back up pg and 2 players who don't even play w/ stupid contracts.

[ammofan]

Yeah, those that say Baron can't defend or play anymore are either ignorant or just plain haven't looked into the situation. The guy is a veteran guard that still can pass, shoot, and be consistent. Yes, DJ has played well for us but he's been a liability for us since the beginning of this season. I feel more comfortable when Liv is on the court because at least he has the size to drive and draw a foul. DJ's offensive game is so one-dimensional as a starter and it's quite annoying to watch.

Someone said earlier that I agree with, let's make use out of that 13 mil and take Baron, get a draft pick, and try to draw DeAndre Jordan. It's a good plan.

I agree. I never feel 100% confident in Dj when he is playing. I think he's a good player but he is so inconsistent. I never know what to expect from him. Baron can still put up 15 a game along with 8 apg in my opinion. It's not like were talking about Brevin knight, were talking about Baron davis, a guy who has led many teams into the Playoffs before.

[winthropbobcat]

I agree. I never feel 100% confident in Dj when he is playing. I think he's a good player but he is so inconsistent. I never know what to expect from him. Baron can still put up 15 a game along with 8 apg in my opinion. It's not like were talking about Brevin knight, were talking about Baron davis, a guy who has led many teams into the Playoffs before.

agree 100000%

[CatNation]

please tell me you guys are joking. Baron Davis is so ****ing awful. The only thing consistent about him is that he sucks 95% of the time. His efficiency makes Jackson look like Steve Nash

[ammofan]

please tell me you guys are joking. Baron Davis is so ****ing awful. The only thing consistent about him is that he sucks 95% of the time. His efficiency makes Jackson look like Steve Nash

HE PLAYS FOR THE CLIPPPPPPEERRRRRRSSSS. Blake Griffin is the only player to do well there in the history of the team.

[CatNation]

He's a pretty major part of why they suck so bad. Or does playing for the Clippers make you fat, lazy, unable to shoot, unable to defend? He shooting like 18% on 3s and 65% on fts. I could do that.

[SWedd523]

He's a pretty major part of why they suck so bad. Or does playing for the Clippers make you fat, lazy, unable to shoot, unable to defend? He shooting like 18% on 3s and 65% on fts. I could do that.

The people clamoring for Baron are the same, living in the past fans that thought we should go after McGrady and Iverson. They don't realize Baron sucks and is old, fat, and injury prone and averages a terrible 8/5 or whatever it is on horrible shooting numbers. Their team is trying to ge rid of him to give ERIC FREAKING BLEDSOE his starting job.

[Chef]

What about picks?

minnesota's pick and i am on board

[The Prodigy]

He's a pretty major part of why they suck so bad. Or does playing for the Clippers make you fat, lazy, unable to shoot, unable to defend? He shooting like 18% on 3s and 65% on fts. I could do that.
Why you hatin' on Bledsoe?

[CatNation]

at least someone could never call Iverson lazy. I'd rather have a guy that refuses to come off the bench or a reduced role because he wants to play than a guy that would rather be on the couch with a bag of doritos

[WAM9]

Im pretty torn here. While I think Baron is well past his prime and has a ridiculous contract... its not like he would sit on the bench here. Carrol and Diop are the definition of dead weight. At least with Baron in a new situation away from the Clippers, he can be productive. I mean pay 13 million for nothing, or pay it for a starting PG. Losing DJ doesnt hurt my feelings at all.

However, I wouldnt do this trade at all unless we got Deandre Jordan, or the Minny pick or both. If they give us that, Id do it.

Baron/Liv/Collins
Jack/Hendo
Crash/Brown
Tyrus/Diaw/Brown
Nazr/Jordan/Kwame

Thats a much better looking lineup. I have been a fan of Jordan since he was an option for us in the draft. Looked really good last night too.

So you get an instant bump in talent, and you actually get some use out of the 13 million you had sitting on the bench (even if he is past his prime). New coach that lets players play. I mean i could see that working.

I think a real key here, is that in this trade you make the lineup a little better, hopefully add a pick and you really dont lose any trade pieces. I cant think of any other trade that would drop Diop and Carroll... and DJ isnt exactly a great trade value right now anyway. Im not a huge fan, Id much rather do the Harris trade, but if this is all we can do I think we could make it work.

This is how I feel almost 100%. It isn't like we are acquiring Baron for expiring contracts. Getting rid of 2 over (and I mean over) paid players who sit the bench for someone who will at least start is an upgrade in talent for me, especially if we are able to get a pick, Jordan or Kaman in the deal as well.

[dav7z]

The trade as is would stop some JAX and Borris turnovers. If we can just cut down on turnovers its a plus. The offence needs to go through the point .

At worst we trading trash for trash , Its not like we taking on a bunch of extra cash,
Diop and Carrol has no value at all.

We all so gain two roster spots , to sign another player.

[ND22]

I'm back and forth on this. I like what Baron could bring (and no I'm not living in the past, I never rooted for the Hornets). He has the potential of ending up as dead weight, but the move could jumpstart what game he has left in him. If he doesn't work out, we're stuck with him for 2 1/2 years yes, but at worst he becomes the backup for whatever young PG we draft or sign and honestly, Baron Davis as a backup doesn't sound too bad.

[Proudiddy]

The people clamoring for Baron are the same, living in the past fans that thought we should go after McGrady and Iverson. They don't realize Baron sucks and is old, fat, and injury prone and averages a terrible 8/5 or whatever it is on horrible shooting numbers. Their team is trying to ge rid of him to give ERIC FREAKING BLEDSOE his starting job.

I realize he is fat, old, shooting horribly, etc., but I wonder how much of that has to do with what happened one he got there in terms of the owner, other players, etc. When he signed there, he did so thinking that Elton Brand was coming back with him, Baron signed and Elton left without telling him beforehand. Then you got the stories of Sterling heckling their players, I read the blurb yesterday about Kaman saying even Sterling heckled him... WTF? What, is Kaman fat and out of shape too? lol, By all accounts he's a good guy.

I say it alot, but you'd be amazed at how much a player's mental state affects their game. Maybe he lost his motivation to workout, get better, or stay conditioned when you're working in a hopeless sh*thole, you're not even the biggest team in your city basketball-wise, and you have a notoriously bad owner who heckles his own players good or bad.

I'm not saying BD is what he used to be if he gets in shape and dedicated to the game again, but I bet you he'd be fairly close. Also, getting away from LA may be good for him in terms of getting away from distractions? If MJ is determined to get rid of DJ, Harris should be the #1 target, and BD the 2nd...

[Scottley Crue]

I realize he is fat, old, shooting horribly, etc., but I wonder how much of that has to do with what happened one he got there in terms of the owner, other players, etc. When he signed there, he did so thinking that Elton Brand was coming back with him, Baron signed and Elton left without telling him beforehand. Then you got the stories of Sterling heckling their players, I read the blurb yesterday about Kaman saying even Sterling heckled him... WTF? What, is Kaman fat and out of shape too? lol, By all accounts he's a good guy.

I say it alot, but you'd be amazed at how much a player's mental state affects their game. Maybe he lost his motivation to workout, get better, or stay conditioned when you're working in a hopeless sh*thole, you're not even the biggest team in your city basketball-wise, and you have a notoriously bad owner who heckles his own players good or bad.

I'm not saying BD is what he used to be if he gets in shape and dedicated to the game again, but I bet you he'd be fairly close. Also, getting away from LA may be good for him in terms of getting away from distractions? If MJ is determined to get rid of DJ, Harris should be the #1 target, and BD the 2nd...

I agree with you on this, especially the part about Harris being the #1 target if we dump DJ. I imagine all this may wait until Denver begins talking again once Carmelo and his family are ready to move forward after the death in the family.

[fallen xxi]

All I'm saying (as many others have) is that Baron would be coming to a very comfortable situation. He would be coming to a place that he's been, played, and enjoyed success in before, under a coach that he's played under and enjoyed success for, and play alongside Jack who he enjoyed some of the most successful years of his career with.

Comfortable = Happy. Happy = Success.
Baron has the talent and the ability, he's got an attitude and a mental state that I think Paul Silas can get rid of (at least for the time being). This guy isn't 35. He's 31. A lot of point guards have enjoyed success in their early to mid 30s and dropping weight and getting in shape isn't a tough task...especially considering he isn't in god awful physical condition as it is.

[ND22]

All I'm saying (as many others have) is that Baron would be coming to a very comfortable situation. He would be coming to a place that he's been, played, and enjoyed success in before, under a coach that he's played under and enjoyed success for, and play alongside Jack who he enjoyed some of the most successful years of his career with.

Comfortable = Happy. Happy = Success.
Baron has the talent and the ability, he's got an attitude and a mental state that I think Paul Silas can get rid of (at least for the time being). This guy isn't 35. He's 31. A lot of point guards have enjoyed success in their early to mid 30s and dropping weight and getting in shape isn't a tough task...especially considering he isn't in god awful physical condition as it is.

Very well said.

[IshHappens]

http://bradthomas.files.wordpress.com/2006/12/ticket-book-cover-newbg.jpg

Now just bring back Mash and party like it's 2001.

[The Prodigy]

Heres a start

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=2ft9l65 (http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=2ft9l65)

[Black]

Heres a start

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine

Wrong link.

[BobCatsFanInTx]

I have seen a few games with Baron since he joined the Clippers and he has been a total disappointment and I know I don't want him in Charlotte. He is lazy and out of shape most of the time and Donald Sterling has heckled him for good reasons. Donald Sterling almost immediately regretted signing him and I know we will also. Unless the guy really is motivated to play up to his seriously overinflated contract it is doubtful he is a difference maker in Charlotte with the Bobcats. Please do not let this deal go down. We will give up serious pieces such as Crash and that would really piss me off. Maybe if we could work the numbers in such a way that we got Kaman in the deal. I might be alright with that. We would probably take a loss a SF but it would seem the C and Pg positions would be somewhat improved upon. We can only hope it turns out good for us.

[The Prodigy]

Fixed the link

[fallen xxi]

We will give up serious pieces such as Crash and that would really piss me off.

Who ever said anything about giving up Crash? The deal as written is DJ,Carroll,Gana for Baron

[SWedd523]

I realize he is fat, old, shooting horribly, etc., but I wonder how much of that has to do with what happened one he got there in terms of the owner, other players, etc. When he signed there, he did so thinking that Elton Brand was coming back with him, Baron signed and Elton left without telling him beforehand. Then you got the stories of Sterling heckling their players, I read the blurb yesterday about Kaman saying even Sterling heckled him... WTF? What, is Kaman fat and out of shape too? lol, By all accounts he's a good guy.

I say it alot, but you'd be amazed at how much a player's mental state affects their game. Maybe he lost his motivation to workout, get better, or stay conditioned when you're working in a hopeless sh*thole, you're not even the biggest team in your city basketball-wise, and you have a notoriously bad owner who heckles his own players good or bad.

I'm not saying BD is what he used to be if he gets in shape and dedicated to the game again, but I bet you he'd be fairly close. Also, getting away from LA may be good for him in terms of getting away from distractions? If MJ is determined to get rid of DJ, Harris should be the #1 target, and BD the 2nd...


It may very well be the case that he comes here and his career is revitalized. It's very doubtful, but it's possible.

But (and this is a very big but), the concept of value must be understood. There are things that conspire for, and against, a player's value. Let's look at Baron


1. Huge contract
2. Injury prone
3. Rep for being out of shape
4. Old
5. Owner hates him
6. Team wants desperately to move him


Every single one of those things drops his value, the combination of them all makes him one of the very least desirable players in the league. That's why I don't think he's worth DJ. Remember, Rip Hamilton can be had for only Diop and Carroll. And most would agree that he's more valuable than Baron, right? So therefore, why are we throwing DJ in there when we don't have to?

Diop/Carroll
Diop/Carroll/Najera
Diop/Carroll/Shaun


Those are the only three packages that I would deem acceptable for Baron by himself.

If DeAndre or a first is added, I'd throw UPS in
If Eric Gordon, they can have whatever they want.

[Proudiddy]

It may very well be the case that he comes here and his career is revitalized. It's very doubtful, but it's possible.

But (and this is a very big but), the concept of value must be understood. There are things that conspire for, and against, a player's value. Let's look at Baron


1. Huge contract
2. Injury prone
3. Rep for being out of shape
4. Old
5. Owner hates him
6. Team wants desperately to move him


Every single one of those things drops his value, the combination of them all makes him one of the very least desirable players in the league. That's why I don't think he's worth DJ. Remember, Rip Hamilton can be had for only Diop and Carroll. And most would agree that he's more valuable than Baron, right? So therefore, why are we throwing DJ in there when we don't have to?

Diop/Carroll
Diop/Carroll/Najera
Diop/Carroll/Shaun


Those are the only three packages that I would deem acceptable for Baron by himself.

If DeAndre or a first is added, I'd throw UPS in
If Eric Gordon, they can have whatever they want.

Great points Swedd, sorry I may have missed it, but is that Rip deal you're talking about from an actual source? If that is a deal on the table, I don't know why we haven't done it yet. And you're right, I think we should be able to get BD with the pieces you mentioned without giving up DJ b/c I'm willing to bet we're the only ones talking to them about him right now.

[ohara831]

We need an update from Ballwhore

[ammofan]

We need an update from Ballwhore

I agree......where u at ballwhore?

[IshHappens]

Ha, nice avatar ammofan.

[ammofan]

Ha, nice avatar ammofan.

thanks dude :D

[SWedd523]

Great points Swedd, sorry I may have missed it, but is that Rip deal you're talking about from an actual source? If that is a deal on the table, I don't know why we haven't done it yet. And you're right, I think we should be able to get BD with the pieces you mentioned without giving up DJ b/c I'm willing to bet we're the only ones talking to them about him right now.

There were "rumors" that "Charlotte may be interested in Rip" and the proposed pieces were Diop and Carroll for Rip. Not real sure if there was an official source or not though.

However,

I'm willing to bet we're the only ones talking to them about him right now.
Is what most people aren't getting. I'd like to have Baron back in Charlotte because I think if there is any situation where he can succeed, it's back with Jack, in a city that loved him, and a coach he has good history with. BUT his value isn't high enough to warrant DJ without us getting additional pieces back

[BobCatsFanInTx]

Who ever said anything about giving up Crash? The deal as written is DJ,Carroll,Gana for BaronI had not read the article at the time but had heard their would be a trade that brought Baron "fat boy don't show any effort" Davis!!! Having witnessed the ineptness of our front office I assumed we would be stupid enough to do a trade that broght someones elses junk only to lose one of our best players. The current trade scenario that is brought up would be okay if we were getting something more from the deal than the lazy fat ass Boom Dizzle who plays with no sizzle. I have watched Baron Davis a few times in the last couple of seasons when he was heathy but the guy sucks these days. He has done very little to endear himslef to Clippers fans or the city of LA and he is from the LA area.

Maybe reuniting with Jax will inspire him. I sure as hell hope so. As of now the guy is not an improvement or is just very little improvement over DJ. The up tempo style Silas wants to implement may help him but at the same time it also may have brought new life into DJ. I can only hope more trades are in the offing. I love Crash but am still open to dealing him if it brings us a solid replacement and an above average 5.

[BlockParty]

Taking the current basketball abilities & beards into account....BD isn't very high on the depth chart and the money involved makes it irresponsible.

Nene's beard>James Harden's beard>The Beagle's Beard>Baron Davis' beard

[teej]

Taking the current basketball abilities & beards into account....BD isn't very high on the depth chart and the money involved makes it irresponsible.

Nene's beard>James Harden's beard>The Beagle's Beard>Baron Davis' beard

You forgot Turiaf...

[BlockParty]

You forgot Turiaf...

No, his beard is already in the Beard HoF

[teej]

No, his beard is already in the Beard HoF

And theBeagle's isn't? That's a travesty, I demand a recount of the votes!

[I am Kwame Brown]

I would glady take Baron Davis from the Clippers if we did not have to give up key players for him. I think he would play well with g-force and Jack.

[teej]

I would glady take Baron Davis from the Clippers if we did not have to give up key players for him. I think he would play well with g-force and Jack.

If you really are Kwame Brown, come out of the closet. :p

Seriously though, welcome, and I semi-agree with you.

I've tried to stay out of the trade threads, because I posted like hell in them last year and it didn't mean anything. But since Baron is such a major rumor, I figured I'd say this. Diop, Carroll and DJ is a fair trade in a vacuum. But like Swedd has posted, Baron's value is below zero, so we need to either add in Boris for Kaman, get DeAndre, and/or a pick or two.

[LiquidWayno]

If you really are Kwame Brown, come out of the closet. :p

Seriously though, welcome, and I semi-agree with you.

I've tried to stay out of the trade threads, because I posted like hell in them last year and it didn't mean anything. But since Baron is such a major rumor, I figured I'd say this. Diop, Carroll and DJ is a fair trade in a vacuum. But like Swedd has posted, Baron's value is below zero, so we need to either add in Boris for Kaman, get DeAndre, and/or a pick or two.

Agreed. Agreed. Agreed. A lineup of Diddy/Jack/Crash/Tyrus/Kaman can make the playoffs, although it would be pretty fragile in regards to injuries.

[winthropbobcat]

Agreed. Agreed. Agreed. A lineup of Diddy/Jack/Crash/Tyrus/Kaman can make the playoffs, although it would be pretty fragile in regards to injuries.

agreed. People who don't think Baron is an upgrade over a back up PG like DJ and 2 bench sitters that we pay to just sit there like Diop and Carroll don't watch basketball. Especially if we can get Kaman or Jordan, this is a steal of a deal.

[BlockParty]

And theBeagle's isn't? That's a travesty, I demand a recount of the votes!

Actually the Beard HoF is in The Beagle's beard, among other things

[Chef]

agreed. People who don't think Baron is an upgrade over a back up PG like DJ and 2 bench sitters that we pay to just sit there like Diop and Carroll don't watch basketball. Especially if we can get Kaman or Jordan, this is a steal of a deal.

it's not a question of upgrade or not as much is it is poor salemanship and negotiation. he is unwanted everywhere, his value is so so low that we can get more from the deal. this is what we should be doing. we always get short ended in these deals. why not squeeze either aminu or the minnesota pick out of it when we know we can?

[spectre]

agreed. People who don't think Baron is an upgrade over a back up PG like DJ and 2 bench sitters that we pay to just sit there like Diop and Carroll don't watch basketball. Especially if we can get Kaman or Jordan, this is a steal of a deal.

Don't you just love it when you have a difference of opinion with someone and they pull out that 'ol "idiot" or "don't watch basketball" card?

It certainly drives the point home to me. Definitely makes me reconsider my position. 8)

Of course no one wants to mention B-Shitty's chronic knee/hamstring issues when arguing for why we should trade for his overpaid lazy cancer ridden bum ass. We were lucky as hell last year one of our main cogs didn't have any sustained injury. Adding B-Snizzled would almost assure that'll happen.

[CatNation]

agreed. People who don't think Baron is an upgrade over a back up PG like DJ and 2 bench sitters that we pay to just sit there like Diop and Carroll don't watch basketball. Especially if we can get Kaman or Jordan, this is a steal of a deal.

You are completely and utterly WRONG.
BARON DAVIS' TRUE SHOOTING % IS 42%..........THE SAME AS DJ'S OVERALL FG %. BARON DAVIS SUCKS

DJ plays in one of the worst PG systems in the league and is still annihilating Baron in almost all regular and advanced stats.

And thats only arguing 100% facts. Then you get into the opinions (some would still call facts) that he's fat, injury prone, lazy, checked out, etc. HE'S DONE.

[WAM9]

Not to take either side of this particularly but there is a hell of a lot more to a point guard than his shooting % or assist numbers. They need to be your captain who leads on and off the court. Those intangibles are as or more important than shooting % for sure.

I'm not against DJ in general but he is not a leader in any way shape or form with our team for whatever reason. Would Baron be a better leader? Maybe, maybe not but that is a more important thing to argue than ..."DJ'S OVERALL FG%. BARON SUCKS".

[BETCATS]

I love how everybody thinks DJ is more sought after than the value we are reported to be getting back for him. He was held scoreless against the Celtics and had multiple games under 10 points, multiple games under 5 assists, and still hasnt proven much. Stop being so sentimental, just because he is younger and could turn into a decent player doesnt mean he is guaranteed to do so.

MJ needs to win now and I dont think we could do that with DJ.

[CatNation]

Sure the stats would only be one aspect of his complete sucktitude, so go ahead and look at his "leadership." He's led his decently talented team to the bottom of the league. He was supposed to be a star, and they have Kaman, Griffin, and Gordon in the starting lineup. Thats far more talent than we have on our entire team. Give me a break. Baron Davis sucks, theres no possible way you can argue against it. It is a fact.

[WAM9]

Sure the stats would only be one aspect of his complete sucktitude, so go ahead and look at his "leadership." He's led his decently talented team to the bottom of the league. He was supposed to be a star, and they have Kaman, Griffin, and Gordon in the starting lineup. Thats far more talent than we have on our entire team. Give me a break. Baron Davis sucks, theres no possible way you can argue against it. It is a fact.

That is your opinion, pure and simple, not fact.

How would you react if your owner and/or boss sat in front of you everyday while you did your job and heckled you publicly? Maybe you were doing a good job, maybe not, but that type of behavior from Donald Sterling is a joke and indicative of the way the Clippers have run their organization for as long as I can remember.

[CatNation]

I wouldn't be fat when I'm being paid 13 million to not be fat.

[stun704]

I think this is bullocks and is trade Larry Brown wanted before he got fired.

[BlockParty]

I think this is bullocks and is trade Larry Brown wanted before he got fired.

I agree

Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk

[SWedd523]

I love how everybody thinks DJ is more sought after than the value we are reported to be getting back for him. He was held scoreless against the Celtics and had multiple games under 10 points, multiple games under 5 assists, and still hasnt proven much. Stop being so sentimental, just because he is younger and could turn into a decent player doesnt mean he is guaranteed to do so.

MJ needs to win now and I dont think we could do that with DJ.


Number of games DJ has scored in single digits: 11 of 28
Number of games Baron has scored in single digits: 12 of 14


Yes, you read that right. DJ has played twice as many games as Baron yet STILL has less single digit games!



Number of games DJ has less than 5 assists: 6 of 28
Number of games Baron has less than 5 assists: 5 of 12


One more game of sub 5 assists, yet has played twice as many.



I really don't see your argument holding water.

[SWedd523]

Also, If Baron is such a leader, then why are they trying to trade him for hot dookey and start a mid first round rookie PG? If he's such a leader, why did he let him self balloon up to 250lb? If he's such a leader then why don't they want to keep him in LA to mentor Bledsoe and the other youngsters?


I can't believe people are still living in the past with this.




DJ isn't great by any stretch of the imagination, but he's damn sure better than Baron.

[BETCATS]

Number of games DJ has scored in single digits: 11 of 28
Number of games Baron has scored in single digits: 12 of 14


Yes, you read that right. DJ has played twice as many games as Baron yet STILL has less single digit games!



Number of games DJ has less than 5 assists: 6 of 28
Number of games Baron has less than 5 assists: 5 of 12


One more game of sub 5 assists, yet has played twice as many.



I really don't see your argument holding water.
Baron has experience and a bad season going for him, I understand that.

But I'm not just talking about this possible trade, I'm talking about all the hypotheticals we come up with in which we chronically over value DJ. He isnt THAT good. He is alright and now that we have Stephen Silas any young guard we have is sure to improve. Still the numbers say it all. We are calling Baron trash when DJ has had almost as many bad games.

[CatNation]

DJ and Barons seasons aren't comparable at all. DJ is playing mediocre in (what was) the worst PG system in the league. But at least he has decent efficiency and isn't turning the ball over, not much more you could ask for with LB deciding the run the offense through Jack and Boris. 42% TS is just embarrassingly bad. That makes Adam Morrison look efficient by comparison.

[SWedd523]

Baron has experience and a bad season going for him, I understand that.

But I'm not just talking about this possible trade, I'm talking about all the hypotheticals we come up with in which we chronically over value DJ. He isnt THAT good. He is alright and now that we have Stephen Silas any young guard we have is sure to improve. Still the numbers say it all. We are calling Baron trash when DJ has had almost as many bad games.

Baron hasn't had a good season since leaving Golden State.

[BETCATS]

DJ and Barons seasons aren't comparable at all. DJ is playing mediocre in (what was) the worst PG system in the league. But at least he has decent efficiency and isn't turning the ball over, not much more you could ask for with LB deciding the run the offense through Jack and Boris. 42% TS is just embarrassingly bad. That makes Adam Morrison look efficient by comparison.

Larry only did that because DJ cant run a team, and it has severely hurt our offense. The ball movement slowed down this year because everybody on the court had to think like a point guard because our point guard isnt good enough to make the majority of the decisions yet. It was an established fact when the season began that we were going to try and mask DJ's weakness by playing more as a team. He doesnt have that ability to move the ball and create plays like a traditional type of point guard. Raymond wasnt the best at it either but he was much better than DJ.

Sweed I get what you are saying, all I'm saying is that DJ is not worth as much as everyone on this board thinks he is. Unless we get lucky we wont be landing any super special player as part of a trade.

[DY_nasty]

Larry only did that because DJ cant run a team, and it has severely hurt our offense. The ball movement slowed down this year because everybody on the court had to think like a point guard because our point guard isnt good enough to make the majority of the decisions yet. It was an established fact when the season began that we were going to try and mask DJ's weakness by playing more as a team. He doesnt have that ability to move the ball and create plays like a traditional type of point guard. Raymond wasnt the best at it either but he was much better than DJ.

Sweed I get what you are saying, all I'm saying is that DJ is not worth as much as everyone on this board thinks he is. Unless we get lucky we wont be landing any super special player as part of a trade.
lol...

DJ did fine running a team until Jackson started demanding the ball and LB began his "Give it to Boris and gtfo the way" offense at the end of every quarter.

[CatNation]

LB did the same thing to Raymond, and he was wrong about that too obviously. Or you could say he let Raymond run the team and not DJ, realize that they are putting up nearly equivalent numbers across the board, and come to the conclusion that DJ is a better player than Raymond. I don't care about what Jackson and Wallace say about leadership, they clearly know nothing about it the way they tried to blame the teams failure on him instead of themselves. They could learn something from DJ.

[Boomer]

Ballwhore you there? Care to explain why the LAC trade hasn't happened?

[Chef]

on realgm

Baron Davis doesn't want to be traded, despite rumors that the Clippers would love to unload his contract in a deal.

"It's tough because it's the nature of the business," Davis told FanHouse.

"But it's tough because I don't want to leave. I'm here. I came here for a reason. If I were to be traded, I just think that I just never really got a chance to do what I was signed here to do."

Davis signed a five-year, $65 million contract as a free agent in the summer of 2008 with his hometown team.

"I just look at it like you brought me here and you got to give me an opportunity," he said.

"I just want to (have an) opportunity to establish something with this core unit and this group and then we'll keep going."

Davis sees a very bright future for the Clippers.

"I can see us, the second half of the season, towards the end of the season, being one of the talked-about teams going into next year," he said.



Read more: http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/70794/20101227/baron_davis_doesnt_want_to_de_dealt/#ixzz19KaNbZ5d

clippers fans take on it:

http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=1079031&sid=a510645664062d3423cd15fec1565242

[Fred Williamson]

Baron does not want to come here so I'm sure he would go bitch mode if he got traded here. Donotwant.png

[dvdbumpus]

How about rather than blowing up the roster, we see what this new tempo and coaching can bring to us? Who knows what this shake up will give us already. I'm excited to see the changes.