Hendo

[kickazzz2000]

Starting tonight.

The effects of the coaching change are felt immediately, and in a big way.


Borrowed from another blog, but Larry must be rolling around in his sleep chamber.

[polarcat]

Big Fan of this!! I think Hendo is way more of a 2 than a 3, but anything that gets him some burn, I'm all for. Shit, drop him in the paint as the center and let him bang around with the big boys for all I care.

[dnbman]

In place of who?

[fallen xxi]

DJ/Hendo/Jack/TT/Nazr could be a yummy lineup until Gerald gets back. I just really hope the guy starts Tyrus.

[SWedd523]

Dom.

Hendo's starting at SG, Jack at SF.

[Chef]

i hope i am wrong with this but...

what has hendo ever done to make anyone excited? color me very skeptical.

[The Prodigy]

i hope i am wrong with this but...

what has hendo ever done to make anyone excited? color me very skeptical.
When has he really had the opportunity to? I think that is why me, and others are excited.

[polarcat]

Ohhhhh..... Hendo is at the 2 and Jack at the 3. I feel much better about that. To Chef... for me, I think there was a certain "something in the air" that rookies and young players had around LB that kept him limited to showcase his game. I know to play in this league you have to be mentally tough and confident to succeed, so I'm not trying to say that Henderson or Augustin were weak, but I feel like Larry can put you in a doghouse and just destroy your confidence if you don't fit his mold. Kinda like how elderly people don't understand the youth with music, trends, clothing, etc. I just don't think Henderson, DJ, or UPS were given a fair shake. LB was running Jax, Felts and Wallace into the ground last year getting ridiculous minutes and you can't honestly think that the likes of McInnis, Graham, McGuire and Najera are better options than playing your top-15 draft picks? I know Hendo hasn't lit the world on fire when he has played, and with his athletic dunks removed from the conversation, I feel like he's a player that just needs to develop.... only LB stood in his way (along with DJ, UPS and to a lesser degree, T2). Who knows what's going to become of him, but I don't think anyone improved under Larry's watch. I just don't believe his system fit our players strengths.

[Proudiddy]

I heard this on the radio earlier and almost pissed myself... I love Silas man.

[Toocool]

Was solid in his first starting game. Played good D, contested every shot and grabbed a KEY rebound late. The problem I would say is on the offensive end. Still a bit anxious but I think with more playing time he'll get more used to it. Needs to do more on the offensive end, but he's playing within himself (except for the catch and shoot which I didn't recommend). Just needs to be more assertive on the offensive end.

[Pepperz]

I really do have high hopes for GH. I like what he brings on the defensive end but he does need work on the other side of the court. Give him the PT and i know he can turn that part of his game around. He just needs to find his niche on this team.

[teej]

If he develops a J, he'll be a solid defensive guy a la Raja, Bruce Bowen or Matt Barnes. Until then, he's more like Stephen Graham.

[stun704]

If he develops a J, he'll be a solid defensive guy a la Raja, Bruce Bowen or Matt Barnes. Until then, he's more like Stephen Graham.

Can't forget about his athleticism though.. I think he'll be better then those caliber of players if he develops a solid J. if he developed a solid offensive game he'll be a fringe allstar

[Robertpel9]

He will definitely need to work on that J though. I have been to quite a few shoot arounds and it is BAD. Hell one night i watched Diop (and no i am not kidding here) tear him up from three point range. Hendo's jumpshot without being mean is on par with a typical YMCA scrub.

Having said that he plays solid D and is very athletic. He needs a shooting coach to work with him on his shot daily

[Plowright]

if he developed a solid offensive game he'll be a fringe allstar

I'm not so sure about that...

[Mustachio]

If he develops a J, he'll be a solid defensive guy a la Raja, Bruce Bowen or Matt Barnes. Until then, he's more like Stephen Graham.


So you're saying he could be Crash only younger. Id agree with that.

[ammofan]

I think he's kinda terrible right now to be honest. Matt Carroll out performed him by miles last night.

[Ghost Kat]

I think he's kinda terrible right now to be honest. Matt Carroll out performed him by miles last night.

:yeahthat:

[BETCATS]

Stephen Silas and Charles Oakley are going to turn this guy into a star if they get enough time with him. He has all the tools to be a good player but they need a lot of refining.
Im optimistic.

[Chef]

I think he's kinda terrible right now to be honest. Matt Carroll out performed him by miles last night.

spot on. everyone here pretty much knows my take on him and there are a lot huge IFs being thrown around. he has never shown a jumper or competent offensive game either pro or college. and to put him in with bruce bowen or raja really undervalues those two. i think alot of people here look at him with rose colored glasses because he is a bobcat.

[Fred Williamson]

I liked his summer league performence though.

[stun704]

I'm not so sure about that...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hehZQdVbG9I
So you're telling me that doesn't look like a prospect with all-star potential? its probably Larry Browns fault as to why he plays like a chicken with his head cut off.. Larry Brown probably decided to destroy and rebuild his game but half way through LB said fuck it, so his game is not "rebuilt"

[cls77]

Keep giving him minutes. There are plenty of guys, especially our youth, still burnt from the Larry Brown days. Let him work the kinks out on the court and let him gain back his confidence. His stat sheet wasn't exactly impressive last night (1 - 6, 3 boards, 2 TOs, -7 +/-) but he certainly didn't hurt us.

[Plowright]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IcQzOkRXkEY

there you go a highlight reel of Diop. You think he has allstar potential now? ANYBODY and i mean ANYBODY can look good on youtube. I love GH and i hope he suceedes i really do. He cant even get a spot on the rotation in his sophmore season, hes been playing sparadic minutes and been inactive afew times. Sorry what has he done to suggest he ahs all star potential? NOTHING its what he hasnt done which you think he can.... THINK being the key word

[Carolina Swagger]

it's about time......let the youngin get some PT and lets see what we have here

[Ghost Kat]

Primo has a youtube video too. But it's more important what you actually do in the video. Henderson is super athletic. Coach K is a great coach so Henderson knows "how to play the right way". He still looks like a rookie. LB let him waste on the bench his rookie year and did the same this year before his knee injury. He'll be alright when he finally calms down. I know i remember the game vs. the Nets when Henderson came in last year and in 2 mins had three back to back highlight reel plays. If we are going to run he's exactly the guy you want on the wing
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ny2Cen1kgWQ&feature=related

[Plowright]

i agree he can do well in this style no quesstion. Just dont see him being an all star

[Marvel]

He got major minutes last night, but haven't seen enough of him yet.

[SWedd523]

Hendo will never be a star. Will he be a nice role player and possible fringe starter? Maybe. But star? LOL no.

[ammofan]

spot on. everyone here pretty much knows my take on him and there are a lot huge IFs being thrown around. he has never shown a jumper or competent offensive game either pro or college. and to put him in with bruce bowen or raja really undervalues those two. i think alot of people here look at him with rose colored glasses because he is a bobcat.

I think so too. He ain't any good. What has he ever done for us rather than dunked a few times in the last week of last year againest New Jersey? Nothing......

EDIT: I am not hating on him or anything, just being real

[stun704]

People also said gerald wallace wouldn't be an all-star but look where he is now. its too early to write him off, hes still raw, and he dominated in the summer league, I still think he can become a star for this team.

[DY_nasty]

People also said gerald wallace wouldn't be an all-star but look where he is now. its too early to write him off, hes still raw, and he dominated in the summer league, I still think he can become a star for this team.
Summer league domination doesn't mean much... Just ask Quincy Douby.

[Plowright]

Adam Morrison dominated in summer league. Look at him now, case closed I WIN :)

[Mustachio]

Hendo will never be a star. Will he be a nice role player and possible fringe starter? Maybe. But star? LOL no.


If Gerald Wallace can be a "star" Henderson can be better. I trust Hendo's jumper more than I trust Wallace's

[WAM9]

I think so too. He ain't any good. What has he ever done for us rather than dunked a few times in the last week of last year againest New Jersey? Nothing......

EDIT: I am not hating on him or anything, just being real

Gerald has done a lot more than that. He is extremely athletic and has excellent on ball and help defense habits. Actually, if you said I had to put our best 5 on the court defensively, I would put Hendo out there for sure. He has been shackled by LB. Now that he is getting some burn, let's see what happens going forward.

I'm not saying he is going to be an all star or anything like that but I do think he can turn into a solid starter or top 7 rotation guy at the worst. Those guys are necessary too!

[Chef]

this argument is getting pretty silly. hendo didn't get a fair chance under larry for sure, but hendo hasn't deserved any playing time based on his performance when he did get in. and to say he can be anything short of a fringe starter on a contender is extremely pushing it, much less an all-star.

and he isn't even that great of an athlete (relatively speaking). a 22 year old gerald wallace would run laps and jump over hendo now. ups is more athletic than hendo. and crash was more athletic than ups.

[SWedd523]

and he isn't even that great of an athlete (relatively speaking). a 22 year old gerald wallace would run laps and jump over hendo now. ups is more athletic than hendo. and crash was more athletic than ups.


No step Vert
Henderson = 31.5
Brown = 30.5
Augustin = 28.5

Max Vert
Brown = 35.5
Henderson = 35
Augustin = 35

Bench
Brown = 20
Henderson = 8
Augustin = 2

Agility
Henderson = 11.17
Brown = 11.26
Augustin =11.27

Sprint
Augustin = 3.07
Brown = 3.13
Henderson = 3.14


What is so "great" about Hendo's athleticism?

[WAM9]

Those numbers show good measurable numbers to obviously show he is very athletic. Were you posting them to show that he isn't? Don't you think Brown is pretty damn athletic?

Also, he is extremely fluid in his movements so his measurables translate to basketball. Many track athletes have better numbers than these but would not end up being good athletes in different sports.

I'm want to make sure I am clear here that I am not of the opinion that he is an all star but a solid top 7 rotation guy. Are we arguing that he won't be a solid rotation guy?

[SWedd523]

His numbers are comparable to DJ. Nobody would call DJ a great athlete. Hendo is certainly not showing signs of ever being an All-Star so anybody who says he will be one is a homer. He has what it takes to be a fringe starter/7th man but that's all we're getting from him right now. If he turns it around and figures out how to play without disappearing then we can reevaluate.

[WAM9]

I would need some comps from other players around the league to make a solid decision but a 35 inch vertical isn't anything to sneeze at from any of these guys.

Also, DJ is fast, no doubt about it and Hendo is slightly better agility wise and almost the same sprint wise. How many other 2/3's around the league have better numbers than these?

[polarcat]

I feel like Hendo can turn it around and I equate him to an athletic greyhound puppy that has been kept on a leash and not allowed to grow into his potential. Hell, he wasn't even shown the dog park or field to go play in. I forget who compared him to Wallace when he was in Sacramento, but I would agree with that sentiment given a couple of years more in the league. Maybe not All-Star, but I wouldn't shut the door on that thought because the seeds for growth are there. He has a long way to go and needs to get the playtime plus tutelage to get there, so put me in the "glass is half full" camp. I'm neither a Duke fan nor a homer with blinders on, just have a feeling I guess that there were several players whose careers started off on the wrong foot with LB at the helm and Hendo was one of them.

[SWedd523]

I would need some comps from other players around the league to make a solid decision but a 35 inch vertical isn't anything to sneeze at from any of these guys.

Also, DJ is fast, no doubt about it and Hendo is slightly better agility wise and almost the same sprint wise. How many other 2/3's around the league have better numbers than these?



http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-pre-draft-measurements/?page=avepos&year=All

Averages for a SG are 29.6, 34.9, 10.6, 11.31, 3.23 so Henderson is an average athlete by NBA standards.


From the 2008 draft:

Gerald Henderson: 31.5, 35, 08, 11.17, 3.14
Wayne Ellington: 31.5, 38, 13, 11.14, 3.20
James Harden: 31.5, 37, 17, 11.10, 3.13
Marcus Thornton: 31.0, 33, 14, 10.73, 3.28
Terrence Williams: 30.5, 37, 09, 11.15, 3.18
Tyreke Evans: 28.5, 34, 07, 11.81, 3.17
Jodie Meeks: 28.5, 37, 14, 10.96, 3.10
Roddy Beaubois: 29.5, 39, 03, 10.49, 3.15
Toney Douglas: 28, 32.5, 15, 10.63, 3.03
Dionte Christmas: 27, 33.5, 03, 10.83, 3.21



That's just from his draft class. He's above average (for his class) in true vertical and agility, but below average (for his class) in everything else. There's truly nothing "special" about him as far as athleticism goes.

[Boomer]

http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-pre-draft-measurements/?page=avepos&year=All

Averages for a SG are 29.6, 34.9, 10.6, 11.31, 3.23 so Henderson is an average athlete by NBA standards.


From the 2008 draft:

Gerald Henderson: 31.5, 35, 08, 11.17, 3.14
Wayne Ellington: 31.5, 38, 13, 11.14, 3.20
James Harden: 31.5, 37, 17, 11.10, 3.13
Marcus Thornton: 31.0, 33, 14, 10.73, 3.28
Terrence Williams: 30.5, 37, 09, 11.15, 3.18
Tyreke Evans: 28.5, 34, 07, 11.81, 3.17
Jodie Meeks: 28.5, 37, 14, 10.96, 3.10
Roddy Beaubois: 29.5, 39, 03, 10.49, 3.15
Toney Douglas: 28, 32.5, 15, 10.63, 3.03
Dionte Christmas: 27, 33.5, 03, 10.83, 3.21



That's just from his draft class. He's above average (for his class) in true vertical and agility, but below average (for his class) in everything else. There's truly nothing "special" about him as far as athleticism goes.

I'm not disagreeing with you but I think there are other considerations for measuring "athleticism" that can't be summed up for these numbers such as fluidity of motion and hand/eye coordination. You can have a crazy verticle but if you can't run down the court without falling over yourself then that's not my definition of "athleticism."

[SWedd523]

Well unfortunately there is no way to measure "fluidity of motion".

[adam187]

viscosity.

[SWedd523]

viscosity.


LOL you ass bag. +1

He's not motor oil.

[ammofan]

Hendo is trash in this new offense. Seriously. What has he done this year that justifies keeping him? Yes he has seen basically no time, but when he does, what does he do? IMO he will be traded this year.

[Ampsportsduo]

Hendo should be getting burn. This team invested a lottery pick in him and needs to know what they have (or to show other teams what they have). I don't think this team is sure how good the young man can be.

That said, he stops the ball whenever it hits his hands on the offensive end allowing the defense to reset. It's not a mistake that Dook won a title the year he left. He stopped the ball on offense there and has done the same here. He's short for a SG. There are other SGs his size playing, but most of them are big time scorers. In the Spur game, he was repeatedly victimized by Gary Neal and he wasn't able to get his hand in Neal's face on shots (huge fan of small sample sizes). He's undoubtedly athletic and would dominate a BCP pickup game, but is he a sensational athlete when compared with other NBA players? No.

Can anyone tell me what his identity is on this team? What's his role?

I want to grab him and tell him, Earn some PT. Make yourself great at something so the coach WANTS to put you in. Grab a lunch pale. Get dirty. Unfortunately, it seems like he thinks he's ready to be an All-Star as soon as he gets PT. As long as he has that mindset he'll continue to make a marginal impact on most games.

[Chef]

I'm not disagreeing with you but I think there are other considerations for measuring "athleticism" that can't be summed up for these numbers such as fluidity of motion and hand/eye coordination. You can have a crazy verticle but if you can't run down the court without falling over yourself then that's not my definition of "athleticism."

all of this would be fine he was particularly good at any one basketball skill like dribbling, shooting or rebounding. he is not though. right now he is a below average nba player and his upside is probably a very average nba player. no need to throw the "do not trade" tag on him.

[Boomer]

Well unfortunately there is no way to measure "fluidity of motion".

That's my point, you can't measure Henderson's athleticism by solely looking at the numbers originally posted.

[Boomer]

Hendo should be getting burn. This team invested a lottery pick in him and needs to know what they have (or to show other teams what they have). I don't think this team is sure how good the young man can be.

That said, he stops the ball whenever it hits his hands on the offensive end allowing the defense to reset. It's not a mistake that Dook won a title the year he left. He stopped the ball on offense there and has done the same here. He's short for a SG. There are other SGs his size playing, but most of them are big time scorers. In the Spur game, he was repeatedly victimized by Gary Neal and he wasn't able to get his hand in Neal's face on shots (huge fan of small sample sizes). He's undoubtedly athletic and would dominate a BCP pickup game, but is he a sensational athlete when compared with other NBA players? No.

Can anyone tell me what his identity is on this team? What's his role?

I want to grab him and tell him, Earn some PT. Make yourself great at something so the coach WANTS to put you in. Grab a lunch pale. Get dirty. Unfortunately, it seems like he thinks he's ready to be an All-Star as soon as he gets PT. As long as he has that mindset he'll continue to make a marginal impact on most games.

I agree with this completely, I'd like to see Henderson believing that is identity is as a defensive stopper because he has all the tools to be one: size/stength, athleticism, b-ball IQ. Once he sees himself as that, the rest of his game can develop without him being pressured to be an All-Star on the offensive side when he gets. This will get him out of that "mindset."

[SWedd523]

That's my point, you can't measure Henderson's athleticism by solely looking at the numbers originally posted.


They're still certainly more reliable than some immeasurable thing like viscosity. Don't sugarcoat it. Would you want a SG that only had a 20 inch vertical? No. Would you want one that scores in the 15s for agility? No.


You take what you can measure, and add it to the eye test and use that as a gauge for his physical abilities. Then you talk to/interview him and get his mentality. No doubt he's a smart basketball player (thanks Coach K) and no doubt he's athletic. But to assume he's going to become a threat from deep or have the ability to dribble with his offhand when he hasn't shown ANY indication of it at all is a bit.... out there.



I'd be glad to reevaluate my stance on Hendo, but there is absolutely no way you can convince anybody other than a Bobcats Homer that he'll be anything more than a role player.

[TheBeagle]

They're still certainly more reliable than some immeasurable thing like viscosity. Don't sugarcoat it. Would you want a SG that only had a 20 inch vertical? No. Would you want one that scores in the 15s for agility? No.


You take what you can measure, and add it to the eye test and use that as a gauge for his physical abilities. Then you talk to/interview him and get his mentality. No doubt he's a smart basketball player (thanks Coach K) and no doubt he's athletic. But to assume he's going to become a threat from deep or have the ability to dribble with his offhand when he hasn't shown ANY indication of it at all is a bit.... out there.



I'd be glad to reevaluate my stance on Hendo, but there is absolutely no way you can convince anybody other than a Bobcats Homer that he'll be anything more than a role player. Right on. Three years of getting big minutes in college and a year and a couple months of getting very spotty PT and nothing's changed about the guy. Very well documented I hated the pick and wanted Jrue when it was announced, but at the same time I wanted to be proven wrong. But yeah, the dude is at best a role player, but he's looking like a marginal NBA player that may be earning some euros or rupees in a couple years.

What's very telling is that as soon as Paul came aboard he singled out Henderson as someone who would be a significant part of the rotation...hell, he even gave him a start in his first game...which one would assume would give Henderson all the confidence in the world, and all he's done since is continue to throw up clunkers and, as amp points out, suck the air out the ball when it gets to him, not to mention his lackluster defense.

Ultimately Henderson (like UPSy) needs more PT to see what we do or don't have going forward.

[Marvel]

I'm not a fan of small sample sizes but love the eye test. Sadly i'm not seeing anything that warrants him being anything more than a probable euro prospect in the near future. I would LOVE to be wrong about the kid, it's getting to the point where a terawatt jolt up the ass is needed to wake him out of his slumber, because that's what he looks like out there...half asleep. He needs to bring something, hustle, energy, defense to give coach a reason/cause to play him more.

[stun704]

bump 10char

[ammofan]

Little bit better today.....but he's still expendable imo. Everyone is....

[Marvel]

Good to see Hendo contributing, but it's only one game.

[LiquidWayno]

The chat for the Warriors/Cats game was hilarious. We all worshiped Hendo for about 3 minutes at the end of the game.

[ziggy]

The chat for the Warriors/Cats game was hilarious. We all worshiped Hendo for about 3 minutes at the end of the game.

The worship turned to calls for his head after those 2 missed alley-oops last night :facepalm:

[Chef]

The worship turned to calls for his head after those 2 missed alley-oops last night :facepalm:

hendo clearly shows some promise as a role player in the league. but, he is pretty much useless for us. if a trade comes along i have absolutely zero reservations in moving him. we need to acquire a whole new team. as far as i am concerned we no true starting pieces to build a team around. we need to move as many pieces as we can for draft picks. at this point, i could care less about bad contracts that are 3 or less years long. as long as we get draft picks. build through the draft (hopefully past drafting history does not repeat itself) and have the bad contracts ending when we need to extend our rookies.

[Boomer]

They're still certainly more reliable than some immeasurable thing like viscosity. Don't sugarcoat it. Would you want a SG that only had a 20 inch vertical? No. Would you want one that scores in the 15s for agility? No.


You take what you can measure, and add it to the eye test and use that as a gauge for his physical abilities. Then you talk to/interview him and get his mentality. No doubt he's a smart basketball player (thanks Coach K) and no doubt he's athletic. But to assume he's going to become a threat from deep or have the ability to dribble with his offhand when he hasn't shown ANY indication of it at all is a bit.... out there.



I'd be glad to reevaluate my stance on Hendo, but there is absolutely no way you can convince anybody other than a Bobcats Homer that he'll be anything more than a role player.

I'm not trying to sugarcoat anything and I never said that the measurements originally given are not an essential part to gauging athleticism, just that it wasn't the sole measurement. You have to watch guys to see if they can put everyhting together. Also, I never said that we should assume that Henderson will become a threat from deep. All I said was that he should make his identity as a defensive stopper because he has the tools to do so and peripherally work on his offensive game. Nor did I say that he is going to be anything more than a role player.

We say "role player" like its an insult. Glen Davis, Landry Fields, and Shane Battier are all role players. Henderson's ceiling not being an All-Star isn't the end of the world because teams can't have 15 all-stars on them. Henderson is what he is, hoping for him to reach his ceiling isn't being a homer.

[Boomer]

The worship turned to calls for his head after those 2 missed alley-oops last night :facepalm:

Haha, yeah I was at the game and the dudes behind me went from worshiping him to saying things that would make you think he killed babies.

[Ghost Kat]

We say "role player" like its an insult. Henderson's ceiling not being an All-Star isn't the end of the world because teams can't have 15 all-stars on them. Henderson is what he is.

I have to agree, All you Henderson trashers honestly just want someone else to complain about. He wasn't an "allstar" in college. Actually he's not doing anything different then he did at Duke. He has a suspect jumper but he's still active on the offensive end. Defensively I liked his pressure on Wade last night. He got a couple blocks a couple steals. If he'd caught those Ally's you'd be washing his balls. He played ok for a young guy rehabing from LB abuse. You random folk yelling to trade Henderson... For who? What you want that draft pick back? This team needed a SG. I wanted Terrence Williams but i'll live with Gerald jr. I like what he brings to this team.

[Chef]

I have to agree, All you Henderson trashers honestly just want someone else to complain about. He wasn't an "allstar" in college. Actually he's not doing anything different then he did at Duke. He has a suspect jumper but he's still active on the offensive end. Defensively I liked his pressure on Wade last night. He got a couple blocks a couple steals. If he'd caught those Ally's you'd be washing his balls. He played ok for a young guy rehabing from LB abuse. You random folk yelling to trade Henderson... For who? What you want that draft pick back? This team needed a SG. I wanted Terrence Williams but i'll live with Gerald jr. I like what he brings to this team.

my posts on hendo are always in opposition to those saying he shouldn't be included and/or is part of our core. he isn't part of our core because i don't think he will ever be good enough to start. and at this point like i said earlier, we don't need role players. we need a whole new team. so whatever it takes to get either a complete rebuild or quality starters i am all for.

[BobCatsFanInTx]

You people hating on Gerald Henderson are too funny. Does he have some obvious weaknesses at this stage in his career? Sure he does. So do most rookies. You say "Tx, "he is not a rookie," and now I will reply that you are right. Technically he isn't but based on the minutes he was used under the fossil I would say that he is. If you think that in the few minutes he has played he has reached his ceiling you are out of your mind. Will he be an All-Star? I can not say that any more than you have some kind of magical incite on where his ceiling is. Gerald Henderson is not going to make or break our season. He is not that good or bad at this stage in his career. There are other players who will be much more significant in our overall seasons success or failure. I find it funny how people keep finding these insignificant scapegoats for the teams struggles. Hendo is a solid YOUNG basketball player and to dismiss him now is ludicrous. It is not like the man was the third pick in the draft and ended up a total flop. The guy is playing up to where he was drafted. If we don't want picks outside the lottery than perhaps we should trade them. Let somebody else benefit from our "trash".

As far as the All Star game and who is picked to play in that joke of a game, you put too much credibility on that. Every season there are a lot of deserving players who get left off the ballot and many deserving players who are on the ballot who are never picked to play in the All Star game. There are also players who are career borderline All Star talents who contribute quite a bit to a teams success or even sometimes successfully to teams who have little success. If a guy like Henderson plays at the borderline All Star level at some point in his career I am fine with it. He is a part of a TEAM. Right now our guys are not losing as individuals but as a team.

If we trade Gerald Henderson I will be fine with it. However I do realize that at this stage in his career he is not going to bring anything of significant value. We would be lucky to get an upgrade. I for one feel that Gerald Henderson should be given a little leeway and a chance to improve through what basically is his rookie season.

[SWedd523]

A little bit of overreacting by the defenders here. :hysterical:


Because I say he's an average athlete by NBA standards (which I've proven) and that he hasn't shown anything other than be an average, at best, NBA player (which he's proven).

There really is no place for argument because I'm just going with the facts. But please, waste your time being blinded by the lollipop.

[CatNation]

he's athletic as hell (I'm assuming he's still playing through a sore knee too) but it doesnt seem to translate to any sort of slashing ability, because he really has none.

whats funny is that he's shooting much better than MC right now, but MC is driving it to the rim much better (and hustling more imo)

weird

[WAM9]

A little bit of overreacting by the defenders here. :hysterical:


Because I say he's an average athlete by NBA standards (which I've proven) and that he hasn't shown anything other than be an average, at best, NBA player (which he's proven).

There really is no place for argument because I'm just going with the facts. But please, waste your time being blinded by the lollipop.

SWedd, you have your opinions but I take issue that you have proven anything. I say that he is a better than average athlete, even by NBA standards. That is proven with the eye test in watching him play for 5 years or so. Also, with injuries and the limited minutes he received under LB, I don't think he has proven anything.

Again, I think he is a fringe starter to solid rotation player that can play very good defense. We can all argue about what our core is but he is certainly someone that can become a solid piece for our franchise.

[ammofan]

He's athletic all right......but he doesnt have any good NBA level skills at the moment. No jumper, not a great defender or a good enough one to start or hold big mins on a team, and he doesn't do much but hustle and jump.

[ziggy]

He's athletic all right......but he doesnt have any good NBA level skills at the moment. No jumper, not a great defender or a good enough one to start or hold big mins on a team, and he doesn't do much but hustle and jump.

That description sounds like Gerald Wallace 6 years ago.

[adam187]

In Hendo's defense he did have a thread dedicated to him earlier this year about how he banged some dude's friend. I doubt Matt Carrol could pull that off.

[TheBeagle]

hendo clearly shows some promise as a role player in the league. but, he is pretty much useless for us. if a trade comes along i have absolutely zero reservations in moving him. we need to acquire a whole new team. as far as i am concerned we no true starting pieces to build a team around. we need to move as many pieces as we can for draft picks. at this point, i could care less about bad contracts that are 3 or less years long. as long as we get draft picks. build through the draft (hopefully past drafting history does not repeat itself) and have the bad contracts ending when we need to extend our rookies.Yeah, I'm officially ready to go that route as well. In the past I argued that we can't draft for shit and that we can't sign a signficant FA because no one wants to play here and we can only improve via trading personnel, but I think even that tank has dried up. It's no secret here that our FO has been active since the off-season in trying to acquire talent through trades and continue to be so but we just don't have anything anybody wants. Honestly, I'm not the greatest judge of talent, but if I'm an opposing GM I look at our roster and after I stop laughing, only UPS and DJ do I find mildly interesting as good second unit potential (and Nazr but that's only for his expiring). Performance issues and/or bad contracts nullify the rest. If it's true that Chicago has interest in Jack, we HAVE to get that deal done, assuming we get our pick back from them and whatever else they can float us to make the contracts equate.

Above all else, they gotta try something different because the previous model clearly isn't working anymore, and I think acquiring a few extra picks scattered over the next 2-3 years while disassembling this disastrous product at the same time would be a great direction to go in; if for nothing else than it's at least a direction.

[SWedd523]

SWedd, you have your opinions but I take issue that you have proven anything. I say that he is a better than average athlete, even by NBA standards. That is proven with the eye test in watching him play for 5 years or so. Also, with injuries and the limited minutes he received under LB, I don't think he has proven anything.

Again, I think he is a fringe starter to solid rotation player that can play very good defense. We can all argue about what our core is but he is certainly someone that can become a solid piece for our franchise.


I can name at least 10 guys from his own draft class who are better athletes than him. That's certainly no knock on his abilities, but let's not get overzealous on his athleticism here. Also, the kid has three double digit games in a 1.5 year career. Three! Two of which came against the Craptors and the other against the Nots. To even say he can be a fringe starter is being a bit homerish. And before you guys start the whole "But, but, LB hates rookies!" argument, please realize that it is totally untrue.

[LiquidWayno]

that description sounds like gerald wallace 6 years ago.

boom, roasted.

[teej]

Gerald Wallace at 22 makes Hendo look like Gana as far as athleticism goes.

[Chef]

Gerald Wallace at 22 makes Hendo look like Gana as far as athleticism goes.

this.......

[Chef]

That is proven with the eye test in watching him play for 5 years or so.

i saw santa claus in the mall three weeks ago. he is real. proven with the eye test.

the eye test proves nothing. the "objective" measures of athleticism proves very little either, but it does allow for objective comparisons between people.

[BobCatsFanInTx]

A little bit of overreacting by the defenders here. :hysterical:


Because I say he's an average athlete by NBA standards (which I've proven) and that he hasn't shown anything other than be an average, at best, NBA player (which he's proven).

There really is no place for argument because I'm just going with the facts. But please, waste your time being blinded by the lollipop.Not overeacting but being factual about a young player who has barely touched the basketball court since he was drafted. Maybe he sucks or is just average but I don't think his body of work in the NBA is significant enough to make that evaluation. The same kind of things were said about a guy you may have heard of. His name is JJ Redick. With hard work and a desire to make a difference JJ has turned himself into a more than serviceable bench player. Will Hendo be that good? I don't know that any more than you do but I can say that as a team that is nowehre near playoff good this season it sure won't hurt us much to let him learn on the fly. Whatever he will be he will be. If at the end of the season he does not appear to be a solid contributor we can let him go. The guy may not be what you want but as I said he was not a high draft pick and he was never expected to be a serious difference maker. A solid contributor should be enough when it is all said and done.

Your laugh and vague rebuttal says that your issues with Gerald are more personal than some factual statement that can be verified as to his abilities or potential. The guy is probably never going to be an All Star but these days with the way they vote that is not saying much. I am willing to give Gerald Henderson the benefit of the doubt. He has not been around long enough or played enough minutes to truly know what kind of player he will be. You do whatever you want. At the end of the day people like yourself are going to have to live with the fact that he has no trade value AS OF NOW and you will have to endure him as a member of the Charlotte Bobcats.

[BobCatsFanInTx]

Yeah, I'm officially ready to go that route as well. In the past I argued that we can't draft for shit and that we can't sign a signficant FA because no one wants to play here and we can only improve via trading personnel, but I think even that tank has dried up. It's no secret here that our FO has been active since the off-season in trying to acquire talent through trades and continue to be so but we just don't have anything anybody wants. Honestly, I'm not the greatest judge of talent, but if I'm an opposing GM I look at our roster and after I stop laughing, only UPS and DJ do I find mildly interesting as good second unit potential (and Nazr but that's only for his expiring). Performance issues and/or bad contracts nullify the rest. If it's true that Chicago has interest in Jack, we HAVE to get that deal done, assuming we get our pick back from them and whatever else they can float us to make the contracts equate.

Above all else, they gotta try something different because the previous model clearly isn't working anymore, and I think acquiring a few extra picks scattered over the next 2-3 years while disassembling this disastrous product at the same time would be a great direction to go in; if for nothing else than it's at least a direction.Yes since Paul Silas took over we got spanked by Miami and an out of this world showing from Lebron James. We suck. I mean nobody looks foolish playing the Miami Heat these days. Blow it up!!!!::)

[spectre]

Yes since Paul Silas took over we got spanked by Miami and an out of this world showing from Lebron James. We suck. I mean nobody looks foolish playing the Miami Heat these days. Blow it up!!!!::)

Nah...I'd MUCH rather use the 2 games prior where we beat both sub-.500 teams on the 2nd game of a back to back. Much better sample there.

Seriously, it's too soon to tell anything IF we're throwing out everything before Silas.

[SWedd523]

Not overeacting but being factual about a young player who has barely touched the basketball court since he was drafted. Maybe he sucks or is just average but I don't think his body of work in the NBA is significant enough to make that evaluation. The same kind of things were said about a guy you may have heard of. His name is JJ Redick. With hard work and a desire to make a difference JJ has turned himself into a more than serviceable bench player. Will Hendo be that good? I don't know that any more than you do but I can say that as a team that is nowehre near playoff good this season it sure won't hurt us much to let him learn on the fly. Whatever he will be he will be. If at the end of the season he does not appear to be a solid contributor we can let him go. The guy may not be what you want but as I said he was not a high draft pick and he was never expected to be a serious difference maker. A solid contributor should be enough when it is all said and done.

Your laugh and vague rebuttal says that your issues with Gerald are more personal than some factual statement that can be verified as to his abilities or potential. The guy is probably never going to be an All Star but these days with the way they vote that is not saying much. I am willing to give Gerald Henderson the benefit of the doubt. He has not been around long enough or played enough minutes to truly know what kind of player he will be. You do whatever you want. At the end of the day people like yourself are going to have to live with the fact that he has no trade value AS OF NOW and you will have to endure him as a member of the Charlotte Bobcats.

I guess you missed my previous post where I laid out the predraft measurements of the top SG's of his own draft class and proved that according to those FACTS, he's an average athlete. Then I gave more FACTS: He's scored in double digits three times, against terrible teams; LB plays young players when they show they deserve it and obviously Hendo didn't show it. What facts did you give me? Oh yeah, just your opinions.



Like I said, (and it's terrible that I have to repeat myself again) if Hendo proves that he can be a starter and show the ability to score at least 15 on a regular basis (I mean, he IS a shooting guard right?) then I'll be more than glad to reevaluate my position on him. But until then, there is absolutely zero FACTUAL basis to prove me wrong.

[TheBeagle]

Seriously, it's too soon to tell anything IF we're throwing out everything before Silas. But, spectre, you don't really think Silas is going to be anything other than an interim coach, do you? I mean, I have a sentimental spot for him, and I was cool with hiring him in the capacity he was hired, but he's not a miracle worker. He can't make these guys suddenly acquire desire or BB common sense. I can't see how it's too soon to tell this roster is a shambles and a joke and no amount of coaching from Larry or Paul or Pop or Phil is going to change that.

I'm not sure why BCFITx brought up the correlation between roster and coaching (I wasn't implying that in my post he quoted), but as far as I'm concerned they are independent at this point.

[spectre]

But, spectre, you don't really think Silas is going to be anything other than an interim coach, do you? I mean, I have a sentimental spot for him, and I was cool with hiring him in the capacity he was hired, but he's not a miracle worker. He can't make these guys suddenly acquire desire or BB common sense. I can't see how it's too soon to tell this roster is a shambles and a joke and no amount of coaching from Larry or Paul or Pop or Phil is going to change that.

I'm not sure why BCFITx brought up the correlation between roster and coaching (I wasn't implying that in my post he quoted), but as far as I'm concerned they are independent at this point.

I think many consider that LB ruined or misused some or all of our young players and they think there could be some undiscovered diamonds. It's possible that a player's coach will bring something out that LB couldn't...but no, I personally don't expect a hidden superstar LB wouldn't let off the bench.

Silas is a good coach (least he used to be) and his style can be effective. Maybe the Lolliipop will stick with the guy. He could do worse.

[Marvel]

It isn't the fact that there may be some "hidden diamond/s" on our roster, i think the issue is, the "lack of development" LB was so anti against. We never got to see Henderson, UPS, Lexy or any of our young guys really develop under him. He drafted all those guys yet failed to give them genuine time on the court.

This is LB's roster not Paul's.

[spectre]

It isn't the fact that there may be some "hidden diamond/s" on our roster, i think the issue is, the "lack of development" LB was so anti against. We never got to see Henderson, UPS, Lexy or any of our young guys really develop under him. He drafted all those guys yet failed to give them genuine time on the court.

This is LB's roster not Paul's.


He can't make these guys suddenly acquire desire or BB common sense. I can't see how it's too soon to tell this roster is a shambles and a joke and no amount of coaching from Larry or Paul or Pop or Phil is going to change that.

Maybe Silas can get more out of them...but also just maybe those guys didn't deserve time on the court?

This is LB's roster sans the PG & C. We're also without the backups at SG LB wanted. Sure LB pushed for DJ...but at the time we had ONE PG signed and every coach before him said Felton was just a combo. Since that pick up til we let Felton go we'd never been as strong at the 1.

We drafted Hendo because we had no SG at the time. Supposedly we wanted Williams. We traded for the Denver pick because we had no PF. We were targeting Hibbert but ended up with Ajinca.

Tyrus so far has been getting roughly the same minutes, we're STILL running the ball thru Boris/Jax and Hendo (as well as Tyrus) has been injured a lot. Most times on the court for us Ajinca looked like he didn't really belong when he was here.

DJ still looks like a backup unless we're playing SSOL ball.

We were a train wreck when LB came in and he was supposed to "WIN NOW". We had very little assets because of Bernie & the Lollipop and the roster was pretty much a group of guys playing street ball ...which he turned into the No. 1 defensive team in the league, proceeded to win 44 games and got us our 1st all star.

After all that we're mad that mid 1st round picks didn't get developed...picks that are usually hit or miss anyway?

[SWedd523]

As for Hendo, he's seen action in 62 games. That number would be higher if not for his knee injury this year. LB game him about 15 minutes per before he went down and he still didn't bring much to the table (though more than UPS has).

He's started three games. In those games, he's averaged 28 minutes and only scored 5 points, 3 rebounds, 1 assist, and 1 steal. That's as a starting SHOOTING guard, folks.



So again, irrationally defend them all you want, but Hendo/Brown haven't shown anything to make them deserving of extended playing time.

[Chef]

darnell (durham, nc)

I am curious what you think of Gerald Henderson's game. It seems like he is getting some playing time now that Larry Brown is out. Is he a future starter?
John Hollinger (4:08 PM)

I kind of doubt it. His offensive game is pretty limited. He does have some potential at the defensive end, but he has to get better as a spot-up shooter to stay on the court.
John Hollinger (4:10 PM)

By the way, since I get asked this every week by Bobcats fans, no, there is no rational explanation whatsoever for their refusal to start Tyrus Thomas. He's been their best player so far this year and he's playing 20 minutes a game for one of the worst teams in the league. I know he's kind of a headache, but this is completely ridiculous.

i think darnell is a member here

[Boomer]

darnell (durham, nc)

I am curious what you think of Gerald Henderson's game. It seems like he is getting some playing time now that Larry Brown is out. Is he a future starter?
John Hollinger (4:08 PM)

I kind of doubt it. His offensive game is pretty limited. He does have some potential at the defensive end, but he has to get better as a spot-up shooter to stay on the court.
John Hollinger (4:10 PM)

By the way, since I get asked this every week by Bobcats fans, no, there is no rational explanation whatsoever for their refusal to start Tyrus Thomas. He's been their best player so far this year and he's playing 20 minutes a game for one of the worst teams in the league. I know he's kind of a headache, but this is completely ridiculous.

i think darnell is a member here

Sometimes I wonder how guys like Hollinger get hired by ESPN...I think Tyrus is perfect coming off the bench

Also, I've always been pretty high on Hendo, hopefully tonight will show they he can take a bigger role ont his team

[Fred Williamson]

http://i56.tinypic.com/a4wmds.gif

[Toocool]

Very nice game from Hendo. Showed great touch from mid-range, and did some great stuff when needed. The best thing was that he stepped up with DJ when we needed it, showing that he can be assertive. Would of liked for him to be more aggressive again in the second half, but it's a good start.

However, it's only one game. He needs to do this consistently and play strong defence for him to have any chance of really securing himself a core role player on this Bobcats team.

[ammofan]

EVEN I....will admit that hendo looked good last night!

[Chef]

hendo looked really good last night and it is encouraging to see him at least looking like a basketball player lately. but, (of course a but was coming) if he can't develop a consistent 19-20 foot jump shot he will continue to struggle offensively. a sg can't be effective without a deep jumper unless they can beat everyone off the dribble like a dwayne wade. hendo can't do that. he will be much better if he continues to hit the foul line jumper off of curl screens but eventually teams will concentrate a little more on him. not taking anything away from him (but i am about to), but it was against the wiz and warriors that he looked best. with that said i think he has shown that we should at least take a second look at him to see if he can eventually play the role of bench energy/bench defense guy.

[Plowright]

He did have Nick Young guarding him, lets not forget. That guy can NOT play defence. However he did look very good, hit some tuff shots and actually played awsome defence on Young who can flat out score any way possible

[CatNation]

young has an opponent PER of 13. He's a very good defender. Henderson was in his head last night though for sure

[Marvel]

What i've realised is Henderson has no counter moves and struggles mightily when defenses rotate over to help, causing him to react in a situation he has problems getting out of. His handles haven't really improved, something i would've loved seeing him improve on along with his jumper which has gotten better.

Was good to see him breakout last night, maybe this gets him going in the future. He needs to have that mentality and assert himself more often.

[Marvel]

Sometimes I wonder how guys like Hollinger get hired by ESPN


He ticked all the boxes

[bobpackdevil1280]

as a Duke fan, I am loving how Henderson played the other night. Also, I am loving how this team has been playing since Silas was hired.

[Boomer]

What is most encouraging to me is that Henderson's jumper looks vastly improved which shows he's willing ot identify his weaknesses and work on improving those....hopefully he can continue to work on his jumper and ball handling

[TheBeagle]

As many times as I've knocked him since draft day, must give the kid some love. Like other's've said, Young should've been a tough matchup for him, but he dominated his ass all. game. long. For any Henderson critic, you have to look at defense first, and he had a hell of a game there. He played with a hunger and confidence that was refreshing to see. Shocked to say it, but I'm really enjoying his run as a starter, and hope he remains there for the foreseeable future over either GW or Jack.