The 2010-2011 Trade Discussion Thread (part IV)

[Weezy21]

at this point....i think Houston is our best trading partner by far

[ALuhrs704]

i'd take the houston deal in a heartbeat! even though we are playing good, it seems like one game i think we should get rid of jax. the other gerald. but gerald really isnt the same player and i think its more on him not wanting to get injured then him losing a step or not having the same skills. atleast with jackson we know what were gonna get..... but battier and hill would be nice. and if we could get lee or twill in that. yahtzee! but like yall said idk if they would do it

[DJ_2_Hendo_4theWIN]

I like the trade, but it leaves us thin at the 3. I would still do this trade though, not sure Houston would.

How would we be thing? We would have Jack, Battier, and McGuire. It's not really any different then now with Wallace, Jack, and D. Brown/McGuire. At this point Battier is WAY more important to a team than Wallace. He is not only an expiring contract, but provides much better defense, leadership, and lately is just as good offensively as Wallace. Not to mention, he can shoot the 3. Plus if we could get Hill to fill in for Thomas, that would be a great deal for us.

I think one thing is clear, we HAVE to trade Wallace. He is worse off offensively than Diaw. We will be lucky for him to get over 10 now-a-days. Got to cut his salary if at all possible. Henderson starting could provide just as much offense as Wallace does. Plus Hendo would allow Jack to play the 3, which is where Jack should be, and you would get better overall team defense with Hendo at the 2 and Jack at the 3. Anyway, I think Wallace's value is so low at this point that we would be VERY hard pressed to find anyone willing to take him.

[Weezy21]

after some discussion over on realgm, rockets fans have agreed to the following trade:

Trade 1- Wallace for Battier & Hill

Trade 2- Derrick Brown, Dominic McGuire, Sherron Collins for T-Will

We have to make a separate trade for T-Will if we plan to do this before Feb 15th....if not, then this can all be one trade

New Line-Up

C-Kwame/Naz
PF-Diaw/Tyrus/Hill
SF-Jack/Battier
SG-Hendo/T-Will
PG-DJ/Liv

[Weezy21]

New Line-Up

C-Kwame/Naz
PF-Diaw/Tyrus/Hill
SF-Jack/Battier
SG-Hendo/T-Will
PG-DJ/Liv

Look at how much better that 2nd unit is...naz,tyrus,battier,t-will,liv

[DJ_2_Hendo_4theWIN]

after some discussion over on realgm, rockets fans have agreed to the following trade:

Trade 1- Wallace for Battier & Hill

Trade 2- Derrick Brown, Dominic McGuire, Sherron Collins for T-Will

We have to make a separate trade for T-Will if we plan to do this before Feb 15th....if not, then this can all be one trade

New Line-Up

C-Kwame/Naz
PF-Diaw/Tyrus/Hill
SF-Jack/Battier
SG-Hendo/T-Will
PG-DJ/Liv

I would go for that! We get two young players at need positions and an expiring contract that can still help us win this season and make the playoffs. Twill and Hill would be great additions for the future, and really were giving up an over the hill Wallace (from what it appears) and really a bunch of pieces that aren't really doing much for us anyway. Heck, even if we don't trade Wallace, I wonder if we coudl just do the last part of that trade. Collins + D. Brown for Twill. I wonder if they would do that by itself? Twill would be the ideal bench piece we could add. I'm not sure they value him at all at this point. I would even be willing to throw in a 2nd round pick to that trade. Plus it would open up a roster spot that we could use on a 10 day contract somewhere.

[Weezy21]

I would go for that! We get two young players at need positions and an expiring contract that can still help us win this season and make the playoffs. Twill and Hill would be great additions for the future, and really were giving up an over the hill Wallace (from what it appears) and really a bunch of pieces that aren't really doing much for us anyway. Heck, even if we don't trade Wallace, I wonder if we coudl just do the last part of that trade. Collins + D. Brown for Twill. I wonder if they would do that by itself? Twill would be the ideal bench piece we could add. I'm not sure they value him at all at this point. I would even be willing to throw in a 2nd round pick to that trade. Plus it would open up a roster spot that we could use on a 10 day contract somewhere.

Highly Doubtful...whole point was for them to get wallace

[DJ_2_Hendo_4theWIN]

Look at how much better that 2nd unit is...naz,tyrus,battier,t-will,liv

Yeah, that is a MUCH improved second unit and you really don't loose much in the starting lineup either I don't think. Plus Battier would be a great leader AND you add shooting. I would do this trade in a hot second....i hope MJ is on the phone with Houston. I would think they would have SOME interest. But they won't if we keep waiting and Wallace keep stinking it up.

[rsxnova]

Silas said this roadtrip would define what happens to our team. Hill also have the size to play some C. From what we have seen so far.

DJ-Check
Jack-Making Love to pressure again
Wallace- Playing like hot shit
Diaw-Check
Center Rotation-Suprisingly Good

So yea i would love the Hou trade.

[Chef]

Silas said this roadtrip would define what happens to our team. Hill also have the size to play some C. From what we have seen so far.

DJ-Check
Jack-Making Love to pressure again
Wallace- Playing like hot shit
Diaw-Check
Center Rotation-Suprisingly Good

So yea i would love the Hou trade.

disagree with jax. agree with everything else. jax isn't good enough to be the #1 option. the offense is not very fluid with him out there. we are stuck between a rock and a hard place. on one hand we will/should make the playoffs with this team as it is now without any moves but on the other hand we could trade all vets except diaw (until next year) for either younger players/better fits and/or cap space and build around our young guys but it would cost us the playoffs. with that said, the playoffs will be another first round sweep to either the celts, magic or heat. i am at either end of the spectrum, either blow it up by moving naz, jax, crash for what we can get or keep them and win as many games as we can. i just don't try to do half of one and half of the other.

[Weezy21]

disagree with jax. agree with everything else. jax isn't good enough to be the #1 option. the offense is not very fluid with him out there. we are stuck between a rock and a hard place. on one hand we will/should make the playoffs with this team as it is now without any moves but on the other hand we could trade all vets except diaw (until next year) for either younger players/better fits and/or cap space and build around our young guys but it would cost us the playoffs. with that said, the playoffs will be another first round sweep to either the celts, magic or heat. i am at either end of the spectrum, either blow it up by moving naz, jax, crash for what we can get or keep them and win as many games as we can. i just don't try to do half of one and half of the other.

but by doing half, we get 2 young prospects in T-Will and Hill and get more cap space going into the offseason....plus a good shot at doing better in the playoffs

now if you still arent happy, maybe we could follow the houston trade with something that sends Jack to dallas for butler strait up....that will be butt loads of expirings and we can rebuild with a young nucleus of DJ,Hendo,T-Will, Tyrus, Hill...also having a huge expiring in Diaw next year that could be GREAT trade bait

[rsxnova]

but by doing half, we get 2 young prospects in T-Will and Hill and get more cap space going into the offseason....plus a good shot at doing better in the playoffs

now if you still arent happy, maybe we could follow the houston trade with something that sends Jack to dallas for butler strait up....that will be butt loads of expirings and we can rebuild with a young nucleus of DJ,Hendo,T-Will, Tyrus, Hill...also having a huge expiring in Diaw next year that could be GREAT trade bait

Diop would be our only bad contract in that scenario. I consider Eddy and Carroll to be decent bench players when given the mins.

[ammofan]

disagree with jax. agree with everything else. jax isn't good enough to be the #1 option. the offense is not very fluid with him out there. we are stuck between a rock and a hard place. on one hand we will/should make the playoffs with this team as it is now without any moves but on the other hand we could trade all vets except diaw (until next year) for either younger players/better fits and/or cap space and build around our young guys but it would cost us the playoffs. with that said, the playoffs will be another first round sweep to either the celts, magic or heat. i am at either end of the spectrum, either blow it up by moving naz, jax, crash for what we can get or keep them and win as many games as we can. i just don't try to do half of one and half of the other.

The offense is a hell of alot more fluid with him out there and Gerald on the bench.

We would be stupid to deal Jack for scrubs. He is our best player and our #1 option on the floor. Our goal is to still win, so it would be the worst move to make by trading him for anyone that is less than him.

Wallace needs to be dealt ASAP and the HOU trade would be fantastic.

[teej]

Whether Jack is a #1 option or not is irrelevant. What matters is he is the closest thing we have to a #1 option and there's no way we can get one in the forseeable future.

If Morey agreed to that trade the RealGM fans accepted, he'd lose all my respect. We'd be the clear winner of that trade.

[Pepperz]

I like the Houston deal. We deal Wallace and a bunch of scrubs for potential and expiring.

[BRNC]

I threw this out to Ingram today concerning us trading with Houston...interesting answer...


Larry in Blowing Rock, NC:
Good morning Bill...we have Bobcats fans wanting a trade with Houston..G. Wallace for S. Battier as the keys with either TWill or Hill coming back to the 'Cats...do you see Morey doing that kind of deal?

http://www.hoopsworld.com/images/hw_icon.gif
Bill Ingram:
Ahhhhh . . .North Carolina. Love that state! At least we can get Sun Drop here now. FINALLY! A little taste of home.

Anyway - I would love to see Wallace in Houston, though the Bobcats would be insane to trade him. Henderson has been playing well, but if you trade Wallace the playoffs are out of the question. Battier would be great for that young core. Guys like Henderson, Augustin and Collins would really benefit from a couple of months with Battier in the building. The Rockets believe they have a great shot at Carmelo, and until that falls through they won't make a run at anyone else.

Read more NBA news and insight: http://www.hoopsworld.com/Chat.asp?CHAT_TOPICS_ID=1411#ixzz1CdQrVsUj

[spectre]

Did you catch his story from last week?

Very relevant to your question:

NBA At 2: Houston's Plan B? (http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=18563)

[Chef]

I would love to see Wallace in Houston, though the Bobcats would be insane to trade him.

not saying he is the end all be all but i whole heartedly agree with this concerning this particular trade. crash is worth much more than battier and a failed lottery pick either hill or t-wil

[ohara831]

Crash for Battier, T-Will and Houston's 2011 1st would be an easy sell for me. I think adding in their 2011 1st would make the deal go through from MJ's POV.

Edit: Just took a look at the Standings and realized that right now Houston is in the Lottery at #11 pick. I dont see any way Houston gives up that pick along with Battier and T-Will. That is giving too much for Crash.

[teej]

I've watched a lot of Houston games, and Hill is legit. T-Will, I have no idea what's up but Hill is a legit post player and with Oak around, he'd be great.

[DJ_2_Hendo_4theWIN]

Seems as if INgram has not been watching Bobcats games of late. Wallace has been abysmal and really has not helped at all. If we could dish his contract out, get a great veteran presence, plus two young players, we would INCREASE potential this season. Production would be up. Compare what the 3 of those guys do to what Wallace is doing, then compare it to the needs we have on this team. I think Ingram is thinking of Wallace as the all-star of last year, which he clearly is not.

[BRNC]

Did you catch his story from last week?

Very relevant to your question:

NBA At 2: Houston's Plan B? (http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=18563)

Spectre...I did see it when Bill wrote it...thought it was relevant but wanted him to comment today...which he did...I think a lot of Rockets folk would love to have Crash...

[BRNC]

Seems as if INgram has not been watching Bobcats games of late. Wallace has been abysmal and really has not helped at all. If we could dish his contract out, get a great veteran presence, plus two young players, we would INCREASE potential this season. Production would be up. Compare what the 3 of those guys do to what Wallace is doing, then compare it to the needs we have on this team. I think Ingram is thinking of Wallace as the all-star of last year, which he clearly is not.

...and folk keep posting opinions which is great...but the fact of the matter is even playing as poorly as he is (Crash) he still has a better efficiency and per rating that Jax...and Jax at the SF position goes from is frankly horrible this year...don't take my word for it check http://82games.com/ (http://82games.com/...I%27d)

I'd still rather see Jax out before Crash...but again that's my opinion...

[Dcarnys]

Seems as if INgram has not been watching Bobcats games of late. Wallace has been abysmal and really has not helped at all.

Thats what I was thinking, I don't know whats up with Crash right now (injury, the coaching change(I believe LB made him into an all-star) etc) but if he can get back to his old self sooner then later, its a win. If not a change of scenery might be what the doctor ordered.

[Chef]

...and folk keep posting opinions which is great...but the fact of the matter is even playing as poorly as he is (Crash) he still has a better efficiency and per rating that Jax...and Jax at the SF position goes from is frankly horrible this year...don't take my word for it check http://82games.com/ (http://82games.com/...I%27d)

I'd still rather see Jax out before Crash...but again that's my opinion...

bout time this got said. this is a free forum and ideas and opinions should be posted. but, let's quit beating a dead horse. all of these boards are starting to sound the same. this jax must go/crash must go back and forth posting has run its course. we all clearly know where everyone stands on each player and the merits/reasons for that decision. one thing is for sure, we will know exactly what the front office has planned at the deadline.

[ammofan]

...and folk keep posting opinions which is great...but the fact of the matter is even playing as poorly as he is (Crash) he still has a better efficiency and per rating that Jax...and Jax at the SF position goes from is frankly horrible this year...don't take my word for it check http://82games.com/ (http://82games.com/...I%27d)

I'd still rather see Jax out before Crash...but again that's my opinion...

Who cares. Jack puts up numbers and Gerald doesnt even seem to try. There is a time to compare stats and there is a time to compare effort. Effort is more relevant in this discussion because Gerald's effort and hustle that his game is 100% built off of, is not there. I will take the man averaging 18-20 a game and trying to win games even if he is taking bad shots sometimes.
Geralds effort IS NOT there anymore and Jack's effort isnt always there, but he wants to win(Championship belt!) and Gerald really doesnt seem to want to win. He probably does but we would'nt know based on his body language.

I am not anti-Gerald either. I want him to suceed and stay in CHA for the rest of his career but he is going downhill quickly! He has to go if he isnt playing well enough. This is a business and the workers who continuously underperform should be replaced by better performing workers. End of discussion.

[Dmaxcs]

Who cares. Jack puts up numbers and Gerald doesnt even seem to try. There is a time to compare stats and there is a time to compare effort. Effort is more relevant in this discussion because Gerald's effort and hustle that his game is 100% built off of, is not there. I will take the man averaging 18-20 a game and trying to win games even if he is taking bad shots sometimes.
Geralds effort IS NOT there anymore and Jack's effort isnt always there, but he wants to win(Championship belt!) and Gerald really doesnt seem to want to win. He probably does but we would'nt know based on his body language.

I am not anti-Gerald either. I want him to suceed and stay in CHA for the rest of his career but he is going downhill quickly! He has to go if he isnt playing well enough. This is a business and the workers who continuously underperform should be replaced by better performing workers. End of discussion.


Wow you read my mind completly! He needs to start drawing more fouls and get to the free throw line. I've noticed when the bobcats get to the free throw line alot they usually win.

[SWedd523]

This is a business and the workers who continuously underperform should be replaced by better performing workers. End of discussion.

That'd be fine and all if Hendo was actually performing better.


Compare their per36 numbers, which actually benefits Hendo since his REAL numbers per36 would be lower. Even still, Crash does better in made Field Goals, Three Pointers, AND Free Throws. He also gives you more rebounds, assists, steals, and points.


As for advanced stats, Crash still has a much better PER, True Shooting/Effective FG, and winshares while also having a better ORtg AND Drtg.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=wallage01&y1=2011&p2=hendege02&y2=2011

[rsxnova]

I dont care what Crash's per is when he isnt helping us win games. Someone call Houston up but erase the tapes of his charges.

[Marvel]

^ What he said.

[BRNC]

I dont care what Crash's per is when he isnt helping us win games. Someone call Houston up but erase the tapes of his charges.

I guess a way to evaluate is disregard every stats that says anything at all about what the players do while they're on the floor is a way to go...we did it with Ray and NY will be in the playoffs...we did it with EO50 and NO will be in the playoffs...we did it with JRich and Orlando will be in the playoffs...as a matter of fact...I think every good player we have needs to be given away so that the "knowledgeable" fan base will be happy with the crappiest team in the NBA...yep...that's exactly the way we need to go...

[Weezy21]

I guess a way to evaluate is disregard every stats that says anything at all about what the players do while they're on the floor is a way to go...we did it with Ray and NY will be in the playoffs...we did it with EO50 and NO will be in the playoffs...we did it with JRich and Orlando will be in the playoffs...as a matter of fact...I think every good player we have needs to be given away so that the "knowledgeable" fan base will be happy with the crappiest team in the NBA...yep...that's exactly the way we need to go...

NY has Amare
NO has CP3
Orlando has Dwight

[BRNC]

NY has Amare
NO has CP3
Orlando has Dwight

yep...and they were smart enough to pick up other good players on the cheap from us...

...and that's my point...why stop now...why not just keep the tradition going...until we really suck...

[stun704]

I guess a way to evaluate is disregard every stats that says anything at all about what the players do while they're on the floor is a way to go...we did it with Ray and NY will be in the playoffs...we did it with EO50 and NO will be in the playoffs...we did it with JRich and Orlando will be in the playoffs...as a matter of fact...I think every good player we have needs to be given away so that the "knowledgeable" fan base will be happy with the crappiest team in the NBA...yep...that's exactly the way we need to go...
You really think EO50 and Jrich are part of their playoff run? Kwame is mroe bang for the buck, and Jax is light years ahead of Jrich, both players are mere role players. take them off their respective teams and the Hornets and Magic are still crusing to a playoff birth.

[rsxnova]

I guess a way to evaluate is disregard every stats that says anything at all about what the players do while they're on the floor is a way to go...we did it with Ray and NY will be in the playoffs...we did it with EO50 and NO will be in the playoffs...we did it with JRich and Orlando will be in the playoffs...as a matter of fact...I think every good player we have needs to be given away so that the "knowledgeable" fan base will be happy with the crappiest team in the NBA...yep...that's exactly the way we need to go...

Except we had most of those players on the court missed the playoffs. Having a bunch of role players like you mentioned is great if you have a legit star, or are the LB pistons, but we are neither. If you want to ride Crash into the ground till his only value is as an expiring then be my guest but im ready to get some talent for him while value is still there. On a side note, Jrich has given us two of our better players(Diaw and Jack).

[BRNC]

This is an attitude that just makes me scratch my head...it takes 5 guys to play on the court for the same team...and a team needs 5 starters...we're three short at the moment (IMO) and people are all over trading one/or the other/or both of the legitimate starters we have...and I've seen anything from a bag of peanuts etc. mentioned coming back...well that attitude has us with 2 starters and three guys not likely to start on most of the other teams...

The three "role players" I mentioned ^^^^^ are legitimate starters for most NBA teams and you really get no where with out 5 legit starters to begin with...

So lets go with the team theme up to this point (and what many fans here want or seem to want)...trade the last two legit starters we have for someone else s garbage...stink up the NBA with what we have left which is what we'll do...and it is laughable to think we will get the better of any team in a trade...we managed that twice with "desperate" teams and that is the only way we can seem to win a trade...

so yes indeed...lets really get this team down to role players (the Cavs come to mind) and see how much the "fans" love it and stick with the team...

Problem for me is the "same" folk that wanted Crash dumped ( for a bag of crap since he's wash-up) will be the loudest gripers that we don't know how to trade...yes well...

[Chef]

here's a fun one to ponder

memphis out: z-bo, mayo
memphis in: tyrus, johnny flynn, corey brewer and their 2011 pick back from minn

minn in: crash, mayo, carroll
minn out: martell webster, flynn, brewer, memphis pick

char out: crash, carroll, thomas
char in: z-bo, webster

whys:
memphis: turn 2 guys they aren't resigning into a tough young pf to fit their team, a back up pg and potential asset, defensive minded sg back up/starter that is an expiring and their pick back

minn: upgrade at the 2 and 3 for very little out and get a veteran presence

us: z-bo anchors the block giving us the offensive post presence we need. i think we should resign him too, but either way gets us squarely into the playoffs. this year he is risk free and becomes the only guy who commands a double on the team. adds offense to kwame's defense. webster expires next year (team option that won't be picked up) and fills the void at 3. we may have to throw a pick or cash to sweeten the deal for memphis. although, i don't see them getting much more for randolph because of his contract size making it hard to move him for assets.

[cls77]

The only way I trade Gerald Wallace is if we can somehow throw Gana Diop (are injured players even tradable?) in. We're basically paying the two of them combined Lebron money over the next 3 years! Moving them would free up 16million next season, followed by another 7million in the offseason with Nazr's contract off the books. So sick!

Full disclosure: I would highly doubt we ever pull anything off like this because almost every trade we've ever been a part of has involved taking a crappy contract long term from another team.

[DJ_2_Hendo_4theWIN]

The only way I trade Gerald Wallace is if we can somehow throw Gana Diop (are injured players even tradable?) in. We're basically paying the two of them combined Lebron money over the next 3 years! Moving them would free up 16million next season, followed by another 7million in the offseason with Nazr's contract off the books. So sick!

Full disclosure: I would highly doubt we ever pull anything off like this because almost every trade we've ever been a part of has involved taking a crappy contract long term from another team.

That's really the ONLY way you would trade Wallace? Thank god your not running this team. If you can trade Wallace for an expiring and young pieces that would be a STEAL. Wallace at this point is a bad contract, and a worthless player for us. It's pathetic to watch.

[ammofan]

That's really the ONLY way you would trade Wallace? Thank god your not running this team. If you can trade Wallace for an expiring and young pieces that would be a STEAL. Wallace at this point is a bad contract, and a worthless player for us. It's pathetic to watch.

Exactly......7.0 ppg over the last three........it has gone from bad, to worse recently.

[Absinthe]

I guess a way to evaluate is disregard every stats that says anything at all about what the players do while they're on the floor is a way to go...we did it with Ray and NY will be in the playoffs...we did it with EO50 and NO will be in the playoffs...we did it with JRich and Orlando will be in the playoffs...as a matter of fact...I think every good player we have needs to be given away so that the "knowledgeable" fan base will be happy with the crappiest team in the NBA...yep...that's exactly the way we need to go...

Here's the thing, the franchise has never had an super star (Gerald Wallace made the all star team, but he is not a SUPER star). Our front office has PASSED on Brandon Roy, Rudy Gay, Brook Lopez, and Joakim Noah.

Another thing to consider is that the lottery has been unkind to the Bobcats. Orlando got the number one pick and they drafted Dwight Howard. The Bobcats get number two in that draft and end up with Okafor. The difference? One player is good and the other is a bonafide franchise centerpiece that is currently the best center in the NBA. That type of bad luck fucks a franchise. Not to mention that the Bobcats have missed out on other great players such as Deron Williams and Chris Paul (to a lesser extent, Bogut). So in an alternate universe, the Bobcats could be trotting out Deron Williams OR Chris Paul with Dwight Howard. Even if the rest of the team is pure bullshit that team would be fun to watch and could contend.

My point, is blame the team's woes on bad luck and an enormously stupid front office. Until this team either drafts, signs, or trades for a legitimate super star then you can forget about any sort of progress. I think it's obvious that the team either stays put and gets knocked out in the first round or gets torn down so they an build toward a brighter future. You made the point that Richardson, Felton, and Okafor are on winning teams. This goes back to my initial point---it's only because they're on a team with a super star. Ironically, Dwight Howard and Chris Paul (if the Bobcats got lucky in the draft then those two could potentially be playing for them) are two of those players and Amare is the other. J Rich, Okafor, and Felton aren't going to do a damn thing by themselves. They're solid role guys and that's all. So it's super star or bust for this team and I'm thinking bust.

[BRNC]

Absinthe...I don't disagree in principal with what you've said...my point is this:

Every team in the NBA will not have a Superstar...will not happen...but any team can be very good with starting quality players in their line-up until they luck out and get a Superstar...

My problem with our franchise is we've let starting quality NBA players go and have not replaced them...I'm sure some would argue differently from what I'm about to say but IMO we are down to 2 starting quality NBA players...Crash and Jax...and I'm unwilling to trade either for the "proverbial bag of peanuts"...we do not need more bench players regardless of their quality...we need more (at least three by my count) starting quality NBA players before we can ever go the next step...

Even if we "lucked-out" by drafting a Superstar...we could easily end like the Cavs...no ring and no Superstar because we lacked quality...

I think it is great to make a trade to improve the team...but I'd like to see any trade we make improve the team...I'm (frankly) sick and tired of BS moves that are not (IMO) improving the team...and by that I mean this...it is easy to make an argument that we could/would have won as many games last year with Bernie still running the team and had better assets for trades this year...LB depleted our assets and we have (again IMO) damned little to show for it...and what we do have..if they're traded...I'd like to feel that we've actually improved...

[teej]

Two questions, one for absinthe and one for BRNC.

Absinthe: I understand you don't like the moves this team has made in the past, and I don't necessarily disagree. But, since Rod Higgins took over in the summer of 2007, what moves (outside Diop) were enormously stupid?

BRNC: Is DJ not starting quality? Or Boris?

[Absinthe]

I don't like giving Tyrus Thomas the money he received. Chicago wanted him gone for a reason. What's ironic is that they could have drafted Tyrus Thomas in the draft, but passed on him. Also, I don't believe we have a draft pick this year.

And I disagree that most teams do not have a super star. I'd argue that the LA Clippers are in a better situation than Charlotte because they have Eric Gordon and Blake Griffin. I'd argue that a team like Minnesota is in a better situation because at least they have Kevin Love. I honestly do not believe that players like Gerald Wallace and Stephen Jackson will ever be, under any circumstance, players that can be built around. Jackson and Wallace would be role players on a lot of the top tier teams and that's my point. Charlotte is not an ideal destination for NBA players. Kobe pretty much refused to play here. Charlotte will never sign any major free agent. Ever. That's why they have to get better through trades and through the draft. I understand that some of you don't want to give away Wallace or Jackson for a bag of peanuts, but it's imperative that this team needs to shed salary, acquire young players, and get draft picks. If they don't then you're going to see the Bostons, Miamis, and Chicagos routinely murder us in the playoffs. I mean, seriously, have you ever thought that teams aren't offering a lot of Jackson and Wallace simply because they're not THAT good? Jackson and Wallace would be second and third options on teams like Dallas and Chicago. Those teams know it and deep down you do too.

[teej]

I don't like giving Tyrus Thomas the money he received. Chicago wanted him gone for a reason. What's ironic is that they could have drafted Tyrus Thomas in the draft, but passed on him. Also, I don't believe we have a draft pick this year.


I can understand that. But I don't think it was stupid. A mistake perhaps, but not stupid. And we have a pick this year, the pick owed to Chicago is a lottery protected 2012.

[Chef]

Absinthe...I don't disagree in principal with what you've said...my point is this:

Every team in the NBA will not have a Superstar...will not happen...but any team can be very good with starting quality players in their line-up until they luck out and get a Superstar...

My problem with our franchise is we've let starting quality NBA players go and have not replaced them...I'm sure some would argue differently from what I'm about to say but IMO we are down to 2 starting quality NBA players...Crash and Jax...and I'm unwilling to trade either for the "proverbial bag of peanuts"...we do not need more bench players regardless of their quality...we need more (at least three by my count) starting quality NBA players before we can ever go the next step...

Even if we "lucked-out" by drafting a Superstar...we could easily end like the Cavs...no ring and no Superstar because we lacked quality...

I think it is great to make a trade to improve the team...but I'd like to see any trade we make improve the team...I'm (frankly) sick and tired of BS moves that are not (IMO) improving the team...and by that I mean this...it is easy to make an argument that we could/would have won as many games last year with Bernie still running the team and had better assets for trades this year...LB depleted our assets and we have (again IMO) damned little to show for it...and what we do have..if they're traded...I'd like to feel that we've actually improved...

i agree with most of what you said except if you don't have a superstar, you have to be willing to not pay the players you have superstar money. we made the mistake of paying oak superstar money when he is nowhere near that type of player. the key to not having a superstar is either developing the base to make the team attractive for a superstar to come via free agency to win a championship or pull the trigger on a rebuild and try to get lucky in the draft. unfortunately, our team is not in an "attractive" city so any chance at a superstar has to be the ability to win a ring. i also reluctantly agree with not resigning ray to the contract he wanted from us. if we could have gotten him for cheaper i would have absolutely resigned him.

[Chef]

I can understand that. But I don't think it was stupid. A mistake perhaps, but not stupid. And we have a pick this year, the pick owed to Chicago is a lottery protected 2012.

let us know what you think in years 3-5 of his deal.

[SWedd523]

Here's the thing, the franchise has never had an super star (Gerald Wallace made the all star team, but he is not a SUPER star). Our front office has PASSED on Brandon Roy, Rudy Gay, Brook Lopez, and Joakim Noah.

Who of those players are super stars? The only one who was close was BRoy and he's nowhere near that level now because his knees rival that of Greg Oden's.



And do you know why we passed on him?

[BRNC]

Two questions, one for absinthe and one for BRNC.

Absinthe: I understand you don't like the moves this team has made in the past, and I don't necessarily disagree. But, since Rod Higgins took over in the summer of 2007, what moves (outside Diop) were enormously stupid?

BRNC: Is DJ not starting quality? Or Boris?

Teej...this is what I consider a starter quality NBA player...a player that could/would probably start for at least half the NBA team...IMO we only have two of those...Crash and Jax...and I'm sure some folk will argue for DJ etc. but IMO (at least at this point in time) he does not fit my criteria...I'm sure some folk will argue Crash or Jax is not but right now I think they are...

[BRNC]

i agree with most of what you said except if you don't have a superstar, you have to be willing to not pay the players you have superstar money. we made the mistake of paying oak superstar money when he is nowhere near that type of player. the key to not having a superstar is either developing the base to make the team attractive for a superstar to come via free agency to win a championship or pull the trigger on a rebuild and try to get lucky in the draft. unfortunately, our team is not in an "attractive" city so any chance at a superstar has to be the ability to win a ring. i also reluctantly agree with not resigning ray to the contract he wanted from us. if we could have gotten him for cheaper i would have absolutely resigned him.

I'm not for over-paying Chef...it was the one issue I had when EO50 got his new contract...we were bidding against ourselves...and the "starter money" we're paying TT...give me a break...it's ridiculous...

[WAM9]

Who of those players are super stars? The only one who was close was BRoy and he's nowhere near that level now because his knees rival that of Greg Oden's.



And do you know why we passed on him?

Ohhhh...I know the answer to this one!

[jazzer89]

Does anyone want to do a deal with them? I would love to have Bynum, he easily shores up the Center position. I would see us having to give up gerald but if a deal could be worked that we get are shitty contracts out of here and still getting bynum i would do it

[BRNC]

Does anyone want to do a deal with them? I would love to have Bynum, he easily shores up the Center position. I would see us having to give up gerald but if a deal could be worked that we get are shitty contracts out of here and still getting bynum i would do it

Folks complain about Crash and injury issues...Bynum has played in 73 less games than Crash over the last four years...I'm not sure he shores up anything other than the injury list...

[jazzer89]

I knew that would be a major complaint and its 100%valid, but Crash doesnt look like himself. Crash might be on decline even at his age. Bynum might be able to stay healthy you never know. What i do know is that he works hard everytime he is injured and he can be a monster if he was the focal point of an offense.

[Absinthe]

Who of those players are super stars? The only one who was close was BRoy and he's nowhere near that level now because his knees rival that of Greg Oden's.



And do you know why we passed on him?

Don't be dense. All of those players I listed are better than Stephen Jackson or Gerald Wallace. Brook Lopez, for example, would automatically be better than any center the Bobcats have ever had by default.

[WrxErik]

We drafted Adam Morrison it will take a franchise a while to recover from that lol. The guy had/has scumbag written across his fore head. Lopez is an average center on a Terrible team. He is soft and if he were on a decent team he wouldn't produce the same numbers imo. As for everyone who thinks you can just rebuild and maybe get lucky on a star player what will that accomplish besides maybe make the team a little more fun to watch. In the NBA If you are not the Lakers or Celtics you have about a 5% chance to make the Finals. Just look at all the past Championships in the NBA. To me just making the Playoffs is as good as making the Finals. Every move this team makes should be aimed at making the playoffs. I mean Miami Has James Wade and Bosh and yet Boston and LA are still Favs to win it all. That should tell you something.

[SWedd523]

Don't be dense. All of those players I listed are better than Stephen Jackson or Gerald Wallace. Brook Lopez, for example, would automatically be better than any center the Bobcats have ever had by default.

So let me get this straight, you say we passed on "super stars" in reference to Roy, Gay, Lopez, and Noah. Then call me dense when I say none of them are super stars (including Roy, anymore)?



lol ok.

[ammofan]

Brandon Roy never was a superstar.

Listen....Morrison was the correct pick at the time. NO BODY was better than Adam Morrison in college. If we would have picked Roy or Gay or whoever people would've been like "WTF MJ?" and everyone would have been mad.
The worst pick we have made was the DJ pick. It isnt bad NOW, but Lopez was the only sensible pick in that draft for us. Larry screwed that one up imo.

[teej]

First, MJ didn't pick Ammo. Bernie did.

Second, Roy refused to work out for the 'Cats. And IIRC Rudy wasn't too hot about coming here either.

Third, no one in that draft, NO ONE is a superstar. Rondo (as much as I love him) is only as good as he is because he's playing with the best shooter in NBA history, one of the top SF's in the game, and one of the best PF's in the last 20 years. And a super good bench. Roy wasn't a superstar before his knees gave out, and now he's one of the worst contracts in the NBA...

Fourth, this team has never passed on a legit "Franchise Player." The only thing close was Bernie not choosing to trade #5 and #13 for #3, which would've given us CP3. But at the time, Felton was rated just as high as D-Will and CP3, and Bernie needed players (plural). And no one picked after #4 is a franchise player. In the '04 draft, no way the Magic were giving up D12. '05 and '06 I've covered. '07 there were two players, Oden and Durant. The 'Cats got the #8 pick, and I'd say J-Rich was worth it. Only decent player picked after that was Noah. '08 Draft, based on how DJ is playing of late I don't think that was a bad call, especially since Mek was already in place, and can't play the 4. Ajinca was a bust, yes, but of those picked after him only Ibaka is more than a role player on any winning team. And the 'Cats would've held the #16 pick in this draft, and of the players drafted in that range only Eric Bledsoe has made any impact. '09 Draft is too soon to tell, but of those picked after Henderson, Taj Gibson and Omri Casspi are the only non-PGs who are starting-caliber.

Fifth, most of the bad contracts on the roster are because of LB. He demanded we re-sign Mek, he demanded we trade for Gana and Vladi, and is indirectly responsible for us re-acquiring MC and getting Eddie.

Sixth, if Tyrus plays at the level he was playing pre-injry, he's worth more than Wallace, who makes more this year than any year of Tyrus' contract.

[Chef]

Brandon Roy never was a superstar.

NO BODY was better than Adam Morrison in college.

this is not the reason you draft players. the best player in college is quite often a junior or senior and is also quite often not the best pro prospect. perfect example this year jimmer and kemba are the two best players in college this year and should not be top 8 picks. lotto maybe because it is a weak draft.

[Marvel]

The best way to evaluate real talent in the draft/out of college is by using the eye test, not numbers a la Adam Morrison.



The worst pick we have made was the DJ pick. It isnt bad NOW, but Lopez was the only sensible pick in that draft for us. Larry screwed that one up imo.


Wow, really. We already had Mek locked up and Ray was nearing his final year here. Lopez is overrated, DJ has a much higher ceiling. The Morrison pick doesn't even compare.

[Bobcat Matt]

Brandon Roy never was a superstar.

Listen....Morrison was the correct pick at the time. NO BODY was better than Adam Morrison in college. If we would have picked Roy or Gay or whoever people would've been like "WTF MJ?" and everyone would have been mad.
The worst pick we have made was the DJ pick. It isnt bad NOW, but Lopez was the only sensible pick in that draft for us. Larry screwed that one up imo.

Sorry, friend. Adam Morrison absolutely was not the right pick. That's not even hindsight...He was the least athletic prospect possibly in the history of the draft. A non athletic wing player RARELY IF EVER produces in the NBA.

[adam187]

FYI, I've been playing NBA 2k9 a lot on my Playstation 2, and if you fantasy draft and simulate the season, DJ almost always wins Rookie of the Year.

Just sayin.

[Marvel]

lmao B Lopez' line:

16 points, 4 rebounds, 2 blocks in 36 minutes. 8-19.

Just sayin.

[ALuhrs704]

morrison was still the WORST pick at the time. if we wouldve picked rudy gay (my choice) we would have been wayyyyy better off. he hasnt had any injury problems (like roy) and he wasnt a bust like morrison. i wasnt happy with the DJ pick, i wanted brook but DJ is still pretty darn good. just look at his rookie year he did solid, and now he is doing above average this year, if we didnt trade mek for doo doo then the dj pick works out even better,

[ALuhrs704]

Don't be dense. All of those players I listed are better than Stephen Jackson or Gerald Wallace. Brook Lopez, for example, would automatically be better than any center the Bobcats have ever had by default.

Lopez is not better than okafor. period. he may have had mek on offensive game but definitely not on D so to say he was better than any center we've ever had is just ignorant. mek did win RoY the first season but everyone forgets that once a player gets his contract. roy was on the verge of becoming a superster b4 these knee injuries, and gay is the only 1 who could get there. but both of them would have been better than ne 1 we had. no one expected gerald to be an all star before last yrs season started. but its easy to look at things in hindsight. and i doubt fans wouldve been as mad as they were when morrison sucked everynight he played if we draft gay or roy. and to say passing on noah was bad isnt true because we had mek, and with the 3rd pick noah wasnt even being considered.

[Wolfpackbobcat]

Cant keep looking back. What happens, happens. Wouldn't we like to take the Kobe deal back? Imagine what Charlotte would have been like now.

[BigMike]

Oak this year:
11.1 points 10.1 boards 1.8 blocks in 32 minutes and has played every game

Lopez:
19.6 Points 5.6 boards 1.4 blocks in 34 minutes and played every game

Oak is scoring a little less than his average (hes on a good team) and Book is scoring a little more then average (hes on a bad team)

No team would draft either one of these guys if they already had the other. So ... ya....

[BRNC]

Every organization makes mistakes...and we've made ours for sure...the point is we need to stop...

I posted on another thread that this will be the first draft for Rod and MJ and I'm looking forward to what they do...but we all need to realize that (because of lockout concerns) it very well could be one of the weakest drafts since underclassmen may stay out in droves...

We need to make the playoffs again as an organization trying to keep/continue to build a solid fan base...and I've about come to the conclusion that we will probably not make any trades...we will (IMO) not get value back for Crash or Jax...or even Doris for that matter so we have what we have..

We have about $10 million coming off the books at the end of the season and could still be over the new cap so unless we're getting a proven star why should MJ take on more salary...I would not in his shoes...

The organization will just have to maximize what it has...and I really believe that's why Paul was brought in...to give an honest assessment about the team and the players to MJ and Rod...

Most people (on the forum) are quick to defend DJ and the negative impact LB might have had on him but that negative extends to the other young players so I'm trying to take a wait-and-see on Hendo and D. Brown...hoping there might be more potential that we've seen so far...

We're just coming off a 4-2 road trip and the guys played tough in every game so I'm feeling a heck of a lot more positive in my outlook that 4 weeks ago...

[Absinthe]

Adam Morrison was not the right pick. In fact, I would have taken JJ Redick over him. Anyone that watched Duke games knew that Redick, at the very least, could play in the NBA because of his shooting. He's similar to players like Steve Kerr or Jason Kapono. Morrison was never going to do anything in the NBA.

Here's the thing, people knew that both Morrison and Redick were both lights out shooters with fundamentals, but they lacked defense. Unless you're Dirk Nowitzki you will never be able to get away with that. That's why it's a pick that was wasted. You have to ask yourself why Charlotte was stupid enough to take Adam Morrison with the number three pick, yet JJ Redick (a superior player) fell to Orlando at number ELEVEN. Yeah, Brandon Roy's knees were completely screwed. Portland knew that when they drafted him. Even if that's the case, Brandon Roy has given Portland more quality years than Morrison had quality years when he was still in the NBA. Ouch, that stings doesn't it? Keep in mind that Roy averaged 17 points a game his rookie season and won rookie of the year. He's also been in three all star games. I would have gambled on Gay or Roy over Adam Morrison every time.

[spectre]

I really don't understand the Mek/Lopez comparison. The bottom line at the time was that Mek was looking to be PAID...and I suspect the FO was already planning on moving him if they ended up signing him (that was after the draft right?). Taking Lopez and having him put up even similar numbers on a rookie contract would certainly have been a good move if that was their intent.

It would certainly have been a better move than taking Gana's bloated contract and expect him to replace Mek.

That of course has nothing to do with DJ v Lopez...which I haven't an opinion on. Haven't seen Lopez at all this year other than when they played us.

[Absinthe]

I really don't understand the Mek/Lopez comparison. The bottom line at the time was that Mek was looking to be PAID...and I suspect the FO was already planning on moving him if they ended up signing him (that was after the draft right?). Taking Lopez and having him put up even similar numbers on a rookie contract would certainly have been a good move if that was their intent.

It would certainly have been a better move than taking Gana's bloated contract and expect him to replace Mek.

That of course has nothing to do with DJ v Lopez...which I haven't an opinion on. Haven't seen Lopez at all this year other than when they played us.

Lopez is probably the third best center in the East behind Dwight Howard and Andrew Bogut. DJ isn't even a top five point guard in the East, yet people are saying it was the right pick. DJ is definitely not better than Rose, Rondo, and many other PGs in the East. First of all, when drafting, never take a small over a big. Secondly, I believe the Bobcats already had Felton. It would have been much, much, much smarter to trade Okafor, draft Lopez, and resign Felton. I also love how people are conviently ignoring how Okafor is playing with Chris Paul and that has greatly increased his production this season. Playing with one of the best point guards in the NBA tends to do such a thing.

This opens up a can of worms because if they would have picked Lopez then that likely would have kept the team from making the terrible Diop trade. No one on this board can convince me that picking DJ over Lopez was the right move.

[BRNC]

Many of us were surprised on draft night when we passed on Lopez and drafted DJ...MJ was set to pick Lopez but LB insisted on DJ...and if an owner is going to hire a HOF Coach and not listen to him (particularly LB) you immediately have a problem...

LB had the chance to run the show...took us to our first play-off appearance but left us somewhat depleted talent wise with guys getting older and some piss-poor contracts...but that's LBs modus operenda (sp?)...

The easy thing is to (in hindsight) blame MJ...but he hired LB to do a job and (IMO) was obligated to take his advice...of course I think it eventually contributed to him (LB) being fired...but my point is...we did not draft Lopez because of LB...and we do have DJ so that is pretty much the way it is for now...

[polarcat]

IIRC spectre, the belief at the time was that Mek was our Center (though undersized) and was too unathletic to play the 4. Also, I remember the scouting reports coming out of college for Lopez did not indicate that he was a fluid moving bigman. I recall being hesitant to have an unathletic pf (Okafor) and another big at the C (Lopez) would be potentially disasterous down low together. It's easy to look at Lopez now and say WTF and why didn't we draft him, but at the time he was not a guarantee. He was slated to go top 5 and slid on draft day as well. If our front office had planned on moving Okafor prior to the draft, then they should be smacked for not taking Lopez, however, I think they were still hoping that Emeka would improve. I get the argument about the big over the smaller, but I think a lot of folks are forgetting the apprehension that people had on draft night about Lopez.

[spectre]

IIRC spectre, the belief at the time was that Mek was our Center (though undersized) and was too unathletic to play the 4. Also, I remember the scouting reports coming out of college for Lopez did not indicate that he was a fluid moving bigman. I recall being hesitant to have an unathletic pf (Okafor) and another big at the C (Lopez) would be potentially disasterous down low together. It's easy to look at Lopez now and say WTF and why didn't we draft him, but at the time he was not a guarantee. He was slated to go top 5 and slid on draft day as well. If our front office had planned on moving Okafor prior to the draft, then they should be smacked for not taking Lopez, however, I think they were still hoping that Emeka would improve. I get the argument about the big over the smaller, but I think a lot of folks are forgetting the apprehension that people had on draft night about Lopez.

Pretty sure I have the time line right but someone speak up if I don't.

After the draft when we picked DJ, MJ had a talk with reporters and it was brought up about Mek's contract situation. MJ seeming pissed that Mek had turned down our offers previously...and from that point on I started thinking we were going to sign him (LB told MJ we didn't have a chance without Mek) and then trade him...which is exactly what we did. We even picked up Gana that offseason, pretty much insinuating that we were planning on using him to fill the void (LOL!).

Add that in with MJ wanting Lopez IMO it's pretty obvious Mek wasn't going to be in Charlotte much longer. From the reports Larry Brown pretty much had to show his arse to get MJ to change his mind and take DJ.

Remember we had told Lopez' camp we were taking him if he fell to our pick. That's how close it was.

I didn't want Lopez. American white guys are too much a crap shoot anyway in the NBA. We'd already been stupid enough to take an unathletic white wing player (Bernie I'll always hate you for that) and I wanted a SG badly. Right after Gay came to visit and said he could play the 2...not to mention that he seemed genuinely excited to come to Charlotte...that was my choice over Ammo. Roy's knees scared me off of him.

By the time the DJ draft came along I didn't really have an opinion other than BPA (stopped watching college ball a few years back). I was cool with the DJ pick; we only had Felton under contract at the 1 and from the few Texas games I'd seen I liked his poise and scoring ability...which we're just now starting to see in the NBA.

[rsxnova]

Hindsight is a bitch, but at least we didnt get stuck with Joe Alexander.

[polarcat]

Remember we had told Lopez' camp we were taking him if he fell to our pick. That's how close it was.


Well damn -- as if I needed another reason to loathe LB. I didn't know that.

[stun704]

Well damn -- as if I needed another reason to loathe LB. I didn't know that.
There could be a silver lining, this season DJ is a better player then lopez, period.

[Marvel]

Draft Night. Stern: "With the 9th pick the Charlotte Bocats select"......

DJ Augustin.

Lopez cries.


http://img821.imageshack.us/img821/4346/willb.jpg

[murphman]

I have always questioned the facts surrounding LB and the DJ pick because something never added up with me. Yes, LB demands a smart PG to run his system. Yes, Felton was coming off a so-so year under Vincent so the tape LB saw of him certainly led to question marks. But, LB also hates rookies and refuses to give them a lot of PT to develop. So why did he demand DJ in the draft when they could have looked into free agency which started a few weeks later plus the team could make trades to get another PG?

I think MJ caved under LB's presence and prestige.

[stun704]

I have always questioned the facts surrounding LB and the DJ pick because something never added up with me. Yes, LB demands a smart PG to run his system. Yes, Felton was coming off a so-so year under Vincent so the tape LB saw of him certainly led to question marks. But, LB also hates rookies and refuses to give them a lot of PT to develop. So why did he demand DJ in the draft when they could have looked into free agency which started a few weeks later plus the team could make trades to get another PG?

I think MJ caved under LB's presence and prestige.
Which outcome would have put the franchise in a better position?, Felton and Lopez, or DJ and Kwame? we will prolly resign Kwame at 5 years 15 million, Lopez will undoubtely be a 50-75 million contract. and Felton was asking for around the same

[spectre]

I have always questioned the facts surrounding LB and the DJ pick because something never added up with me. Yes, LB demands a smart PG to run his system. Yes, Felton was coming off a so-so year under Vincent so the tape LB saw of him certainly led to question marks. But, LB also hates rookies and refuses to give them a lot of PT to develop. So why did he demand DJ in the draft when they could have looked into free agency which started a few weeks later plus the team could make trades to get another PG?

I think MJ caved under LB's presence and prestige.

He did have questions about Felton...and he said that with DJ he could "envision" a similar pairing like we had with Felton & Knight (shudder). DJ right before the draft was saying how he was "a pass first PG" and how much he "loved to pass/get his teammates involved" and combined that we only had Felton that's all she wrote.

LB is notorious for falling in and out of love with guys on a daily basis. He can love 'em one day and be in the GM's office the next demanding we trade everyone.

MJ absolutely caved.

[BRNC]

spectre...kinda hard for me to call it "a cave"...in any profession you hire a very "high profile" (fill in the blank for position) to run your organization and then refuse to listen to them...I thought (at the time) it was the wrong decision...and I'm still not convinced we made the correct decision...but MJ is smart enough to know he brought LB in to do a job...

Well respected Head Coaches in the NBA always have input on players in the draft...that's always been a problem for me since some (LB is a perfect example) listen to no opinions other than their opinion...our scouts may have done a fantastic job but we don't know...

My point though...the situation between MJ and LB would have soured very quickly if MJ refused to take (what I'm sure LB felt strongly he was brought here to do) his input on personnel decisions...so again...I'd be hard pressed to see it as a "cave"...I think it more living up to your word in MJs case...

...and I'll also point out...this kinda crap got LB fired from a UNC "brother"...MJ gave the man the chance to do the job...but as always...LB wanted to do everyone's job not just his...and it got him fired...end of story...

[Marvel]

MJ didn't "cave". He simply gave LB what he wanted to work with, which was DJ. Just like he gave LB free reign to sign scrubs like McGuire and trade our whole roster away. The relationship between LB and MJ never would've worked if MJ refused any of LB's requests.

[Absinthe]

You really have to be honest with yourself if you're a Bobcats fan. Would DJ be starting on most NBA teams? Absolutely not. Would Lopez? Yes, no question.

[kickazzz2000]

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/210635/Grizzlies_Shopping_Mayo

[teej]

Instead of all this Jack for Mayo talk, what about this: http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=4h3dsmh

CHA out: Gerald Wallace, Matt Carroll, Derrick Brown, Dominic McGuire
CHA in: OJ Mayo, Hasheem Thabeet, Darrell Arthur, Hamed Haddadi

We get rid of Matt's contract, and allow Jack to move to his more natural spot at SF. OJ gives us another scoring option and a ballhandler to take some pressure off DJ. They get out of Mayo's drama, lose Thabeet's bust, and give up a solid role player in Arthur for Gerald, who should get them to the playoffs. We could waive Haddadi to sign a D-Leaguer who can shoot, and Thabeet could (maybe, I doubt it) learn something from Oak.

New lineup

DJ/Liv/Sherron
Mayo/Hendo
Jack/Hendo
Boris/Tyrus/Arthur
Kwame/Nazr/Thabeet

(Eddie, Haddadi, and Gana would be the inactives)

Also, if they were willing to give up Gasol I'd take Tony Allen's contract.

[BRNC]

I'm not sure why you'd want Mayo and Jack on the same team Teej....and I'm not speaking about positions...

[teej]

I'm not sure why you'd want Mayo and Jack on the same team Teej....and I'm not speaking about positions...

We already have Tyrus, Jack (only on this list for his issues with the refs, he's been a model teammate), Crash (who I'm beginning to view as a headcase), Boris (not a bad guy but a headcase nonetheless), DJ (headcase, as proven by Silas), and one of our coaches was arrested for fighting a security team in Vegas. What's one more?

Also, scratch taking back Tony Allen in a OJ trade. No way MJ bans gambling, so OJ would be out for the season :biggrin:

[BRNC]

I have some serious doubts about "Jack the model teammate"...I think there has been some serious back-stabbing going on (from Jack) and that's part of the teams problem...I hope Paul has it fixed but Jack, TT, and Mayo...I'd really pass on that...

[teej]

I have some serious doubts about "Jack the model teammate"...I think there has been some serious back-stabbing going on (from Jack) and that's part of the teams problem...I hope Paul has it fixed but Jack, TT, and Mayo...I'd really pass on that...

Only issue I think Jack has had was with DJ, and that's more because he wanted Ray than anything DJ did or did not do.

But if we're getting rid of Gerald, that really eliminates a problem of allegiance in the locker room, since Jack is the clear alpha dog, and for better or worse that's what MJ wants anyways. Mayo has issues, sure. But none of them are really that bad: He "assaulted" a ref, who was later proven to have overreacted. He did this in HS, when one's judgement is not up to snuff. He was caught with weed, which I'm sure 99.9% of all players have used at some point, and as Josh Howard has shown, many still do. He was shown to have received improper benefits at USC, but I don't hold that against any athlete. It's the system, and what he did is no different than most. He just got caught because of Reggie Bush. He was late for a shootaround. This is concerning, but hardly a deal breaker. He fought with Tony Allen. My only concern is that he lost, but I'm sure Oak can teach him how to fight. He was suspended for steroids. I have a feeling a lot of players take stuff, he was just dumb enough to take something detectable. And in that regard only, I believe him when he said he didn't do it on purpose.

This is a team known for taking on trouble. His value is lower than Jax's was last season, much lower than Diaw's and Bell's, thought not as low as Gana or Vladi. I would've used this to dump Diop, but it doesn't work because of Crash's contract. So I'll do it for getting rid of Matt's, and getting Arthur, who helps with Tyrus' being oft-injured. We take a flyer on Thabeet, who is essentially worthless right now but if he ever "got it" then he'd be a great defender. And if Oak can get Kwame playing well, there's a small chance he could get Thabeet to do so. And if Oak's coaching and Paul's confidence boosting can't do it, nothing ever will.

[BRNC]

Well...I keep hearing reports (from our board members) that his value is low...but every report I read (including the one posted yesterday) says Memphis can't move him because his cost is "prohibitive"...prohibitive has never been an indicator of low value to me...

...and yes all the "small things" he continues to do indicates (to me) he's a dumb-f**k at best...

...and I'm remembering the report that the mouth (ballwhore) reported indicating Crash discussed the offensive strategy (leaving him out apparently) with LB and Jack taking major exception to that (again) according to "the mouth"...things have not appeared "rosy" to me for most of the season...some had to do with LB and his (lack of) desire to be here...and team chemistry after Ray left...and frankly...yes...Jack wants to be the "alpha dog" but he has shown me no leadership qualities...so having Jack as the main "mentor" for TT and Mayo...no thanks...I'll pass...

[teej]

It's not ideal in any way. But at worst, we shave off a year of bad contracts as Gerald and Matt have two year beyond this while OJ and Thabeet are guaranteed just one more. At best, OJ returns to form as a legit scoring threat who can be a sharpshooter, and Thabeet becomes Ben Wallace part two. If either of those happened, its a clear win for us. Only way we lose is if we miss the playoffs and Memphis makes them.

[Plowright]

http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/nba/news/story?id=6094827

so a 3 way trade, i dont see denver getting much out of this! a single 1st rounder and Brewer!? If they coud only rewind time and take that New Jersey deal!!! New York are getting a dam good deal here. Eddy and Randolph dont play so all they are really giving up is eddy curry

[ammofan]

http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/nba/news/story?id=6094827

so a 3 way trade, i dont see denver getting much out of this! a single 1st rounder and Brewer!? If they coud only rewind time and take that New Jersey deal!!! New York are getting a dam good deal here. Eddy and Randolph dont play so all they are really giving up is eddy curry

Wow! Thats insane. I wont believe any Melo deal till it happens but that one looks insane.

[spectre]

MJ didn't "cave". He simply gave LB what he wanted to work with, which was DJ. Just like he gave LB free reign to sign scrubs like McGuire and trade our whole roster away. The relationship between LB and MJ never would've worked if MJ refused any of LB's requests.

Since the debate about DJ and LB really wanting him started a couple of days before the draft (per Chad Ford) and that we notified Lopez' camp during the draft we were taking him if he fell to us I'd say Jordan caved.

LB's interest went south when he learned MJ was going to let players go to save money. Folks can fault him for that...but at least he tried to leave. Since it's well known LB isn't a "rebuild during my tenure" coach maybe the fault lies with Jordan in not letting him go this summer?

[BRNC]

spectre...you just hit the most baffling decision that MJ has made to me...the DJ/Lopez has always been a moot point for me but why the heck MJ did not LB leave, knowing how the "evil LB" can turn everything around him to ash, that just gave me a lot of pause concerning MJ...to the point that I've not considered renewing my tickets for next season...

[stun704]

how about this three team trade

Charlotte In: Kaman, Super Cool Beasley
Charlotte out: Gerald Wallace, Shaun Livingston '10 second round pick
Minny in: Aminu LAC top 10 protected 1st round pick, '10 Bobcats second round pick *Shaun Livingston
Minyy Out: Beasley
LAC In: Gerald Wallace, *Shaun Livingston
LAC Out; Aminu, Kaman top 10 protected first round pick

(Shaun Livingston is optional, if they want him of course, or he could go to minny)

Then do a 2nd trade

Charlotte In TJ Ford
Charlotte out Nazr Mohammed (possible buy out?)
Indiana in Nazr Mohammed
Indiana Out TJ Ford

Charlottes final roster for the playoff push

DJ/TJ/Collins
Jax/Hendo/Caroll
SCB/UPS/McGuire
Diaw/TT/Naerja
Kaman/Kwame/*Nazr(for vet min if he was bought out)

[stun704]

You really have to be honest with yourself if you're a Bobcats fan. Would DJ be starting on most NBA teams? Absolutely not. Would Lopez? Yes, no question.
Horrible logic, ur DJ hate is disgusting. of course lopez would start on more teams, there is a severe drought of good C's in the league, while good PG's are a dime a dozen. however there aren't a lot of PG's as good as DJ.

[GoBobs]

How would you guys feel about Jackson/Brown (either one) for May/Tabeet?

[teej]

however there aren't a lot of PG's as good as DJ.

Rose
Rondo
Nash
Dwill
Cp3
Chauncey
Ty Lawson
Tony Parker
Steph Curry
Westbrook
Jameer Nelson
Aaron Brooks
Raymond
Jrue Holiday
Brandon Jennings

Are all as good or better than DJ. That's 15...or half the league.

[Plowright]

Interesting how apart from Houston every one of those teams with a good pg are competing for a play off spot, shows how vital a decent pg is... unless your LA

[Pepperz]

How would you guys feel about Jackson/Brown (either one) for May/Tabeet?

Ill pull the trigger on this deal.

[stun704]

Rose
Rondo
Nash
Dwill
Cp3
Chauncey
Ty Lawson
Tony Parker
Steph Curry
Westbrook
Jameer Nelson
Aaron Brooks
Raymond
Jrue Holiday
Brandon Jennings

Are all as good or better than DJ. That's 15...or half the league.
Jennings is overrated, dj is better, curry and similar to dj but weaker on defense, maybe billups was better 3 years ago, but not anymore, ty lawson isn't as good as dj, he would be his backup if he played I ncha, raymond which is the most comparable to dj, never put up as good of numbers as dj whil he was a bobcat, only putting up comparable numbers now is because he's playing on a better team for apoint guard, imo brooks, holiday aren't as good ethier. Jameer and dj are a wash, except jameer is 4 years older so I would take dj.

[rsxnova]

Jennings is overrated, dj is better, curry and similar to dj but weaker on defense, maybe billups was better 3 years ago, but not anymore, ty lawson isn't as good as dj, he would be his backup if he played I ncha, raymond which is the most comparable to dj, never put up as good of numbers as dj whil he was a bobcat, only putting up comparable numbers now is because he's playing on a better team for apoint guard, imo brooks, holiday aren't as good ethier. Jameer and dj are a wash, except jameer is 4 years older so I would take dj.

Lawson is a stud when given the mins, but i agree with the other parts.

[Chef]

Jennings is overrated, dj is better, curry and similar to dj but weaker on defense, maybe billups was better 3 years ago, but not anymore, ty lawson isn't as good as dj, he would be his backup if he played I ncha, raymond which is the most comparable to dj, never put up as good of numbers as dj whil he was a bobcat, only putting up comparable numbers now is because he's playing on a better team for apoint guard, imo brooks, holiday aren't as good ethier. Jameer and dj are a wash, except jameer is 4 years older so I would take dj.

the only two debateables on the list are jrue and brooks. i say dj is sligtly better than both but i would rather have jrue in the long run. curry is so much better than dj (it isn't even close), lawson is better, ray is better, billups is much better and jennings is not overrated when compared with dj. jennings is much better and proved this with a trip doub against us. with that said dj is not nearly as expendable as he was earlier in the season pre-silas.

[teej]

Jennings may be a little overrated, but I'd take him over DJ 10 times out of 10. Curry is much better on offense, and while DJ has improved on D, he's still not that much better than Steph there. Billups is still as good, not better but as good. Lawson would start if Billups wasn't such a locker room leader - same deal as Nazr starting at center last year for LB, but TC playing more minutes. Ray is a much better point guard, as far as running an offense and being a vocal leader. DJ is a SG trapped in a PG's body, and is not in any way a leader. For the same price, I'd take Ray. Jameer is a wash, but you said "as good." Aaron is a better scorer than DJ, which is DJ's biggest strength. If not for the young depth (Rose, Rondo, Jennings, etc) at the position, Jrue would be an All Star in a year or two.

[Marvel]

DJ > Raymond any day of the week. Ain't even close.

DJ > Curry. Any day of the week.

DJ > Jrue. Any day of the week.

DJ > Jennings. Any day of the week.

[stun704]

Jennings may be a little overrated, but I'd take him over DJ 10 times out of 10. Curry is much better on offense, and while DJ has improved on D, he's still not that much better than Steph there. Billups is still as good, not better but as good. Lawson would start if Billups wasn't such a locker room leader - same deal as Nazr starting at center last year for LB, but TC playing more minutes. Ray is a much better point guard, as far as running an offense and being a vocal leader. DJ is a SG trapped in a PG's body, and is not in any way a leader. For the same price, I'd take Ray. Jameer is a wash, but you said "as good." Aaron is a better scorer than DJ, which is DJ's biggest strength. If not for the young depth (Rose, Rondo, Jennings, etc) at the position, Jrue would be an All Star in a year or two. How is raymond a better floor general then DJ? when Raymond averaged less assists with the same bobcats squad as DJ? the difference is, you have Amar'e, Gallanari, Fields, and Chandler to pass to then Diaw, the point foward, Jax, the Jab stepper and Crash the penetrater, none of these players are easy assists..

[Marvel]

Some people underrate DJ's playmaking, passing ability.

[CatNation]

Aggressive DJ is better than Ray, Lawson, Billups, Jennings, Jrue, basically all those guys except Curry. Curry is on a higher tier than DJ for now. That said, Silas has improved things but our roster, is still one of the most unfriendly PG teams out there. Bad finishers, bad jumpshooters, guys that like to hold the ball, not a lot of guys who wanna run (DJ and Crash are the only starters who really attack the fast break, and Wallace hasn't even seemed super motivated in that area recently.) Put DJ on the Knicks, watch him put up 24/10 easily.

[ammofan]

DJ > Raymond any day of the week. Ain't even close.

DJ > Curry. Any day of the week.

DJ > Jrue. Any day of the week.

DJ > Jennings. Any day of the week.

Agree with all but the Curry one. DJ isnt consistent enough to be in Curry's category.

[stun704]

Agree with all but the Curry one. DJ isnt consistent enough to be in Curry's category.
Even though DJ easily out played curry in their last match up at golden state?

[kickazzz2000]

Even though DJ easily out played curry in their last match up at golden state?

He also has been known to make Rose his bitch on occasion, doesn't mean anything over 82 games.

[teej]

Aggressive DJ is better than Ray, Lawson, Billups, Jennings, Jrue, basically all those guys except Curry.

I wholeheartedly agree with this. But the reason I ranked them at or above him is he is far too passive. He has a terrific dribble move to get him open, and he has fantastic handles and is second only to Nash in dribbling in the paint, but he refuses to take over. Talent wise, he's close to being top 10 in the league. But mentally, he's got a long ways to go.

[adam187]

What's the deal with Brad Miller? Is he worth taking on? He's old and his contract is for another 2 years after this (around 5 million) but he hasn't been getting that much playing time in Houston (from the quick look I had at his stats). His style of play could help this team, especially with spreading the floor coming off the bench.

Nazr for Miller & T-will, Houston waves Nazr and gets below the luxury tax?
Nazr plus fillers (Dom, Sherron, & UPS who they can waive) for Miller and whoever they'd give up (T-will, Courtney Lee, Jordan Hill): Keep Nazr as their back up, waive our other guys, save money this season and get rid of Miller's contract?

Any thoughts? I could be completely off base, it just seems Miller has low value right now.

[teej]

Nah, I know Miller can shoot threes but Nazr has more value to us since we already are very weak in the frontcourt. If we acquire a big man, he needs to be a banger, a taller and younger version of Najera, really. Preferably one who is defensive-minded, but if Kwame sticks around then offense wouldn't be terrible.

Also, we're trying to avoid taking on long term salary, unless it's a clear upgrade (like Jack was).

[Absinthe]

I love how people are comparing DJ to other scrub PGs. Being at the top of a mediocre class isn't nothing to be proud about. DJ is better than Lawson? I would fucking hope so considering Lawson is a bench player. The bar has been set mighty low. Seriously, do some of you think about the comparisons you're making or do you throw out as many names as possible to make players like DJ look better by comparison.

[ammofan]

Nah, I know Miller can shoot threes but Nazr has more value to us since we already are very weak in the frontcourt. If we acquire a big man, he needs to be a banger, a taller and younger version of Najera, really. Preferably one who is defensive-minded, but if Kwame sticks around then offense wouldn't be terrible.

Also, we're trying to avoid taking on long term salary, unless it's a clear upgrade (like Jack was).

We shoulda kept Tyson....then we wouldn't have a problem.

[teej]

I love how people are comparing DJ to other scrub PGs. Being at the top of a mediocre class isn't nothing to be proud about. DJ is better than Lawson? I would fucking hope so considering Lawson is a bench player. The bar has been set mighty low. Seriously, do some of you think about the comparisons you're making or do you throw out as many names as possible to make players like DJ look better by comparison.

Lawson would start on half the teams in the NBA. Do you ever say anything positive?

[Chef]

he has fantastic handles and is second only to Nash in dribbling in the paint,

easy now teej. dj is far too inconsistent to be considered a top 10-15 point in the league. when he is good he is pretty good when he isn't he disappears. top players don't do this, especially at the point. you can't have your quarterback not show up for games and expect to be a winner. to be fair to dj, his supporting cast isn't the easiest bunch to get assists with, but it still doesn't make up for the fact he disappears. nash and paul have far worse casts than dj and they do far better.

[Chef]

What's the deal with Brad Miller? Is he worth taking on? He's old and his contract is for another 2 years after this (around 5 million) but he hasn't been getting that much playing time in Houston (from the quick look I had at his stats). His style of play could help this team, especially with spreading the floor coming off the bench.

Nazr for Miller & T-will, Houston waves Nazr and gets below the luxury tax?
Nazr plus fillers (Dom, Sherron, & UPS who they can waive) for Miller and whoever they'd give up (T-will, Courtney Lee, Jordan Hill): Keep Nazr as their back up, waive our other guys, save money this season and get rid of Miller's contract?

Any thoughts? I could be completely off base, it just seems Miller has low value right now.

if we take miller's zombie corpse off of them for an expiring center it will cost them more than t-wil

[BRNC]

To be honest I'd rather have Nazzy than Miller...

[Nata Fresh]

DJ is better than Brandon Jennings?? On What grounds??

[Chef]

DJ is better than Brandon Jennings?? On What grounds??

on the grounds that this site is named bobcatsplanet.

[anton273]

DJ's numbers this year are better than Jennings, shooting percentages are all higher than his! Yeah i know Jennings has missed 20+ games and prob on a worse team but we are all bobcats fans gotta stick behind our boy!

OT: Whats Tyrus' latest condition??

[onajourney]

This article about a possible Denver-LA Lakers deal for Carmelo mentions that the Lakers approached the Bobcats recently about trading Artest for Jack or GW: http://sports.espn.go.com/los-angeles/nba/news/story?id=6101304

[rsxnova]

This article about a possible Denver-LA Lakers deal for Carmelo mentions that the Lakers approached the Bobcats recently about trading Artest for Jack or GW: http://sports.espn.go.com/los-angeles/nba/news/story?id=6101304

There is no way in hell its GW for Artest, but could Artest and GWall play together? I still think Artest could be his Houston self, but i dont think that is for us.

[ammofan]

Jack for Ron would leave us with-

DJ
Hendo
GW/Artest
Diaw/Tyrus
KwaMVP/Naz

Kinda weird.....Im not sure about that one. NO to any Artest for GW trade. That makes no sense to me.

[WrxErik]

Don't listen to espn it is a bunch of bias bs. Jordan is not that stupid to trade for Artest.

[Toocool]

Artest and Jack would not WORK at ALL in the locker room. Not One Bit.

[jazzer89]

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=4shnu6s

Only way i take on artest is if i get bynum

this line up would be sick

Augustine
Jackson
Artest
TT
Bynum

[Absinthe]

Lakers are getting desperate. A team would have to be stupid to deal with them right now. I've said for the better part of a year now that the extension they gave Kobe was too many years and had too much money involved. Now he's dropping off and they're stuck with him. Gasol doesn't even care out there anymore. Artest is clearly bored. Fisher shouldn't be a starter on any NBA team. Not to mention that their team is old, slow, and opponents are starting to figure out that they can simply outplay them by being more athletic by default. They're stuck with an old, rapidly declining core and no one is going to be kind enough to take that kind of baggage off their hands.

[Chef]

Artest and Jack would not WORK at ALL in the locker room. Not One Bit.

are you kidding. jax is the marty jannety to ron's brett michaels.
his jim neidhart to ron's brett hart.
the hulk to his animal.
the dynamite kid to his davey boy smith
the grandmaster sexay to his scotty too hotty

here is the proof they can work well together

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9SyiQN2yu5w

in all seriousness. hell no.

[teej]

easy now teej. dj is far too inconsistent to be considered a top 10-15 point in the league. when he is good he is pretty good when he isn't he disappears. top players don't do this, especially at the point. you can't have your quarterback not show up for games and expect to be a winner. to be fair to dj, his supporting cast isn't the easiest bunch to get assists with, but it still doesn't make up for the fact he disappears. nash and paul have far worse casts than dj and they do far better.

First off, I clearly said IF he was consistent he'd be a top 10. He has the talent to be top 10. But right now, he's not mentally tough enough, which is why I have him #16. And when I was talking second only to Nash, I meant dribbling through traffic in the paint, NOTHING else. He's not even close to being on Nash's level right now. But as far as the skill of taking the ball from the right side of the court to the left along the baseline and getting through all the big men, Nash is the only one better.

[Fred Williamson]

you know what pisses me off? First we were all hating on Crash and how bad we wanted to trade him for a bag of peanuts. and now, when he starts to become old Crash again these crap trade rumors come up.

as for the trade, hell to the no.

[TheGayKid]

The problem is that fans become too attached to certain players, They cheer when they do well, they cheer when they struggle too. The average fan probably doesn't realize that when a player has problems, it's better to get rid of them and trade up or slightly down even than to pity them and "Give them a second chance"

[TheGayKid]

Anyone who thinks we should trade for eddy curry must be out of their minds though, the guy doesn't deserve a second chance because he has clearly shown himself to be incable of being much help to any team

[teej]

he has clearly shown himself to be incable of being much help to any team

Outside of making sure they never waste the catering.

[TheGayKid]

Outside of making sure they never waste the catering.

;) Very true!

[Bobcat Matt]

ron artest rumors??? no no no no no no no no no no....awful....terrible...disgusting....worst idea in the history of the WORLD....we absolutely do not need him in any way shape or form...he SUCKS and his contract SUCKS WORSE!!!!! if MJ made a move for him, im done....thank GOD it doesnt look like it would anyways

[Dcarnys]

Just say NO to Artest!!!
I know MJ's not that stupid. But imagine that Jack and Artest on the same team again. Possible team slogan "Our team can beat up your entire fanbase".

[TheGayKid]

Just say NO to Artest!!!
I know MJ's not that stupid. But imagine that Jack and Artest on the same team again. Possible team slogan "Our team can beat up your entire fanbase".

Quoted for truth

[teej]

Artest + Jack + Tyrus + Oakley.

All we'd need is to trade for Ben Wallace to play center and sign AI to play point and we'd have the ultimate psycho squad.

[Weezy21]

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=6jbjj2s

[Dcarnys]

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=6jbjj2s

Ill pass, I hate Artest's contract more then anything and I don't wanna give up Tyrus.

[Chef]

First off, I clearly said IF he was consistent he'd be a top 10. He has the talent to be top 10. But right now, he's not mentally tough enough, which is why I have him #16. And when I was talking second only to Nash, I meant dribbling through traffic in the paint, NOTHING else. He's not even close to being on Nash's level right now. But as far as the skill of taking the ball from the right side of the court to the left along the baseline and getting through all the big men, Nash is the only one better.

i was just pointing to the nash thing. i know we all know he has consistency issues and is not a top 10 in the league. he is damn good at getting into the paint and keeping his dribble alive. i think it is his best asset. if he had a better shooting supporting cast he would have decent assist stats too. but i still think paul and rondo are better at this than him but would be hard pressed to find more.

[ALuhrs704]

i honestly think we just need to sit on our roster the rest of the year, and just play with what we've got. ill probably change my opinion in a week, but id hate to take on a bigger contract right now (and im sure mj is thinking the same). jax needs to stop with the dumb bs tho....

[Chef]

i honestly think we just need to sit on our roster the rest of the year, and just play with what we've got. ill probably change my opinion in a week, but id hate to take on a bigger contract right now (and im sure mj is thinking the same). jax needs to stop with the dumb bs tho....

defintiely agree. any trades we do now should be shedding long term (more than 2 years) money. which means, in all likelihood, getting less competitive in the short term possibly missing the playoffs. don't see us doing it and at this point with the bottom of the east as weak as it is, i don't blame ownership for wanting to make the playoffs.

[Proudiddy]

Just saw that the Warriors have inquired about Nene... Would anyone do Jack + filler for Nene? I think it would be a great deal overall because Hendo seems to be coming into his own and it would shore up the inside for us (if he agreed to an extension).

[ammofan]

Just saw that the Warriors have inquired about Nene... Would anyone do Jack + filler for Nene? I think it would be a great deal overall because Hendo seems to be coming into his own and it would shore up the inside for us (if he agreed to an extension).

I would probably do that.....

DJ
Hendo
Gerald
Boris
Nene

That looks pretty good. Maybe we could also try to get Afflalo from DEN?

[Chef]

I would probably do that.....

DJ
Hendo
Gerald
Boris
Nene

That looks pretty good. Maybe we could also try to get Afflalo from DEN?

nene will cost much more than jax. we don't have anything that denver wants (unless they still want crash) and they won't even consider trading afflalo with us much less adding him in.

[BRNC]

I think the only way Denver wants Crash is if (as the initial Denver interest) Melo is traded...then yes...I'm sure they'd want him badly...

[Woody]

incarceratedbob (http://twitter.com/#!/incarceratedbob) incarcerated bob



**NBA TRADE BUZZ** The mystery that has been snooping around seeing what it would take to get Carmelo is the Bobcats & Michael Jordan

incarceratedbob (http://twitter.com/#!/incarceratedbob) incarcerated bob



**NBA TRADE BUZZ** No deal is in place with Nuggets & Bobcats but Jordan has reached out to Nuggets ownership & it could get hot real soon

incarceratedbob (http://twitter.com/#!/incarceratedbob) incarcerated bob



**NBA TRADE BUZZ** Some sources are speculating that Jordan would be fine with trading for Carmelo NOW & work on extension later #Strategy (http://twitter.com/#!/search?q=%23Strategy)

incarceratedbob (http://twitter.com/#!/incarceratedbob) incarcerated bob



**NBA TRADE BUZZ** Once again NO trade has been finalized or even in the works with Bobcats & Nuggets but Jordan has made the call to Denver

FWIW. Even renting him has it's perks, we would have a lot of cap room