View Full Version : Let's be Realistic about the trades
WrxErik
02-24-2011, 07:35 PM
I still do not understand the Nazr trade unless it was, hey Nazr thanks for everything you have done so we will let you go play for a true contender. Other than that we saved maybe an extra 1 or 1.5 mill. But we lost our only other reliable center who on occasion will have a 20 20 game (Something Kwame has yet to do). So other than respect for Nazr and a money saving move it make 0 sense.
If you think the Wallace trade was a good trade then you believe that based on pure speculation. As of now it is a terrible trade and we got worse not better. You cannot trade your arguably best player for bench warmers, cash and picks and think you got better. No one will know if this trade is worth it until 2013-2015 after we have used the picks we got and the money we saved to sign players and see how the picks/players pan out. If we got a proven player in return then I would say it balances the loss of Wallace out, but anyone who says we came out on the better end is just being optimistic about the future. Going based off of our teams track record those picks will result in busts or an average NBA player. So I am not quite sure where the optimism is coming from. If either were top 5 picks it may increase our odds to land a solid player but guess what they are not top 5 picks.
For those who say Wallace was not going to make us a championship contender, this move just brought us even further away from that. So you think we are going to build through the draft and get lucky enough to get some mid round picks that help us compete against Mia, Nyk, Chi? Seriously? At least Wallace helped us make our first ever playoff appearance and but butts in seats. Now we have to put all of our faith in a second year guy to fill in for the Face of the franchise.
Look at NY for example. They have Billups, Melo, and Stat, and experts still say they are a best 4th 5th seed and 1st round exit. So even if we land 2 superstars we still have a lot of work to do.
This would not have been so terrible if the idea was to blow it up and we actually blew it up. Which would mean actually getting rid of bad contracts. (Diop, Carroll, Najera, etc.) I know it sucks that our teams is in such a mess to begin with but that is all on the front office so it is what it is. Also you can't look at Wallace and say his contract was bad based on just stats, His contract pays for itself because of the money he alone brings to the franchise.
In the end whether you agree with me or not this was nothing more than A money saving move by Jordan due to the future and uncertainty of the NBA.
ohara831
02-24-2011, 07:40 PM
That is not realistic. That is pessimistic. Just give it the rest of this season to see how it plays out, and who we draft with the NOH pick. Not to mention you never know what the Blazers will be like come 2013 draft. Also, Crash has a lot of wear on his tires. Although I dont wish it on him at all, I would not be surprised to see him having some more health concerns over the next couple years. Some may disagree, but I think his best years were had by Charlotte already. I dont think the Blazers will get the player they think they got.
Dcarnys
02-24-2011, 07:43 PM
Anyone Else think that Portland went through on this just to replace Brandon Roy??
WrxErik
02-24-2011, 08:03 PM
Not pessimistic at all. It would be pessimistic if I said things like omg I will never watch this team again. Jordan is an idiot, we are going to suck forever, this franchise is doomed etc. I stated things that I would think people would find obvious. Yes there is a chance we could land some awesome players, But realistically, The odds are against that.
TheGayKid
02-24-2011, 08:04 PM
Anyone Else think that Portland went through on this just to replace Brandon Roy??
*nods*
10char
dnbman
02-24-2011, 08:15 PM
If you think the Wallace trade was a good trade then you believe that based on pure speculation.
There's truth in that statement in so far as obviously the draft is a gamble. However, given exactly what you mentioned-- the top teams in the East are now VERY strong-- I don't see us competing with Wallace this season or next. So, instead of forcing the issue, possibly losing him to injury, we trade him and his large salary for picks and a young contributor. That's o.k. by me. In fact, I think this is the type of trade we've needed to make in the past but never did because we wanted to win now. At this point, we have a lot of bloated contracts and little shot at making a serious playoff run. By 2013, several of our problems will be solved, and we'll be in a position to build a young team to compete after the current superpowers go over the hill.
WrxErik
02-24-2011, 08:23 PM
Dnb While I agree to an extent with what you are saying if you wait till the offseason we would still have had a better shot than we do now to make the playoffs, and our expiring contracts would still come off the books. then after the season is over you can look to move players if you choose to. But since there is uncertainty about the future of the NBA we were not willing to wait until then. I know we also wanted to sell him while Wallace's stock was high but I do not view the draft picks as valuable as other do. We also took on a bunch of crap players just to cut them. That is why I believe this was purely based on money.
dnbman
02-24-2011, 08:32 PM
Dnb While I agree to an extent with what you are saying if you wait till the offseason we would still have had a better shot than we do now to make the playoffs, and our expiring contracts would still come off the books. then after the season is over you can look to move players if you choose to. But since there is uncertainty about the future of the NBA we were not willing to wait until then. That is why I believe this was purely based on money.
Yeah, but we might not have been able to make such a trade in the offseason. Trades of veterans for picks are tricky because of having to match salary. Also, if you know that Wallace is not going to be around, why not trade him and give Henderson more room to play?
I guess I feel o.k. about the trade because I have no faith in us to make a meaningful playoff run. As I just told one of my buddies, we'd make it in the playoffs because the East is so weak after the top teams. I don't care if we sneak in this year, as I think we'd be road bump for the Celtics or Heat in a 7 game series.
I'd rather us do some trades like this to rid ourselves of some albatrosses and start making better decisions.
WrxErik
02-24-2011, 08:36 PM
That's the thing we rid ourselves of one of our so/so contracts and an expiring. The horrible contracts are still sitting here and we will have to wait for them to expire with or without these trades.
spectre
02-24-2011, 08:44 PM
Not pessimistic at all. It would be pessimistic if I said things like omg I will never watch this team again. Jordan is an idiot, we are going to suck forever, this franchise is doomed etc. I stated things that I would think people would find obvious. Yes there is a chance we could land some awesome players, But realistically, The odds are against that.
I'll call Jordan an idiot...no, how about a STUPID FUCKING IDIOT.
Our best player was making 10.5 million potentially...but 1 million of that was incentive (to make the all star game I think). Most likely he'd be due 9.5 million because of his injuries this year. That's not the type of salary you call excessive, nor is it the type you freaking DUMP for a guy who's threatening to retire and 2 mid to late 1st round picks!
We had a guy that WANTED to be here, a guy who was an all star last year and is only 28. Good luck finding a lot of that. Fucking Rudy Fernandez threatened to go to Spain if they traded him to us!
Quality traded for quantity almost always loses.
Jesus Christ. And to think I was pulling for that stupid SOB to buy the team.
dnbman
02-24-2011, 08:45 PM
I HATE the "+Reply to Thread" button. I press it all of the damn time instead of the "post quick reply" button, erasing everything I typed. ARGH!!!!
Nutshell, things open up for us tremendously after the 12/13 season. Seeing as how it would be VERY difficult to put together a winner with our contracts and general mediocrity, I think it was fine to start finding more youth and picks for the future.
spectre
02-24-2011, 08:47 PM
I'd rather us do some trades like this to rid ourselves of some albatrosses and start making better decisions.
DNB you know I love you like a brother...but there is no way in hell Crash was an albatross contract. He earned every bit of his money in spades. He left blood on the court and we won a lot of games just because he refused to let us lose.
There's not one guy on our roster that has near the drive to do what he's done for us.
dnbman
02-24-2011, 08:48 PM
DNB you know I love you like a brother...but there is no way in hell Crash was an albatross contract. He earned every bit of his money in spades. He left blood on the court and we won a lot of games just because he refused to let us lose.
There's not one guy on our roster that has near the drive to do what he's done for us.
I'm sorry; that came out wrong. What I meant was that I'd rather see us start to dismantle some of the other contracts and start making a youth movement.
Agreed, Wallace was not an albatross contract.
WrxErik
02-24-2011, 08:50 PM
Spectre I am very angry as well but I want to try to believe there is some good to this but in the end that is why I said this has to be a money move based on the future of the NBA. Because along with what you have been saying, these moves make little to no sense other than saving a few dollars.
I HATE the "+Reply to Thread" button. I press it all of the damn time instead of the "post quick reply" button, erasing everything I typed. ARGH!!!!
Nutshell, things open up for us tremendously after the 12/13 season.
i have typed up multi paragraph posts that never got posted because of the stupid reply to thread button.
also, yes are future gets much brighter in 2013. it is a shame civilization is scheduled to cease to exist in 2012 sometime.
dnbman
02-24-2011, 08:54 PM
i have typed up multi paragraph posts that never got posted because of the stupid reply to thread button.
also, yes are future gets much brighter in 2013. it is a shame civilization is scheduled to cease to exist in 2012 sometime.
Begging the question, is there a causal connection between Bobcats success and the universe ending? Have we been rooting for our own demise?
spectre
02-24-2011, 08:55 PM
I'm sorry; that came out wrong. What I meant was that I'd rather see us start to dismantle some of the other contracts and start making a youth movement.
Agreed, Wallace was not an albatross contract.
Sorry myself; after a 2nd look I can see what you meant.
I'm happy you guys can see the brighter side. Me, I've gone from dread thinking the bastard is really going to do it this time, being literally pissed off, sad and now pissed off again. I've been holding off posting because of what I might say that I'll later regret, and it probably is my best move going forward.
I hope you guys are right is all I can say.
spectre
02-24-2011, 08:59 PM
Spectre I am very angry as well but I want to try to believe there is some good to this but in the end that is why I said this has to be a money move based on the future of the NBA. Because along with what you have been saying, these moves make little to no sense other than saving a few dollars.
Man it's ALL about the money. That's all it's been ever since the lollipop bought this team. Look at the end result we now have from 3 starters that made the playoffs...and would probably have been a 50 win team if we'd started the season with Jax from day 1. Two mid range picks and a few depth guys we most likely could have picked up for a 2nd rounder. The only other payoff? MONEY.
Until I see different I see Jordan as a skinflint no better than the likes of Shinn.
dnbman
02-24-2011, 09:00 PM
I'm happy you guys can see the brighter side. Me, I've gone from dread thinking the bastard is really going to do it this time, being literally pissed off, sad and now pissed off again.
Honestly, the only thing making me feel positive right now is that I've been very negative all season long and can at least some some attempt to make something of this mess, albeit two or three years from now.
This is like dating a gorgeous girl who doesn't really have anything wrong with her, but you know things just aren't that great. Sooner or later, you have to move on to find something that is right.
The big question is will we find that something.
WrxErik
02-24-2011, 09:06 PM
lol I agree 100% Spectre. I will try to be positive because that is the fan in me. But I honestly feel a bunch of epic loses on there way which will probably start tomorrow against the kings. I mean they just beat the magic and droped 115 on them yesterday. If I am wrong and we some how come out and do really well I'll be the first to admit I was dead wrong but in my eyes I think it will be tough for us to win more than 8 more games this season.
Spectre, I'm not going to address most of your points because you aren't thinking clearly enough right now anyways.
But after the new CBA is signed, GW would've been an albatross contract. This puts us and very few other teams in a good spot beyond this season.
WrxErik
02-24-2011, 09:20 PM
Jack, diop, carroll, and najera's, contracts are any better?
SWedd523
02-24-2011, 09:22 PM
Man it's ALL about the money. That's all it's been ever since the lollipop bought this team. Look at the end result we now have from 3 starters that made the playoffs...and would probably have been a 50 win team if we'd started the season with Jax from day 1. Two mid range picks and a few depth guys we most likely could have picked up for a 2nd rounder. The only other payoff? MONEY.
Until I see different I see Jordan as a skinflint no better than the likes of Shinn.
Of course.
These trades have nothing to do with rebuilding or hedging for the future. It's about the current state of affairs--the bottom line. I'll repost the "template" for rebuilding to drive the point home:
1. Bring in young talent
2. Bring in lottery picks
3. Get rid of albatross contracts
1? The best young piece we brought in was Dante. And he's never going to give you more than 10-15 minutes a game.
2? The New Orleans pick as it currently stands, is going to be 21st. That pick has little to no value for a rebuilding team because stars are rarely taken out the top 10. The Portland pick as it currently stands (I know it's not until 2013) is 19th, so read my previous statement. Also, the picks we traded our franchise player for? Teams routinely buy them for cash considerations on draft night.
3? Is Diop gone? Hammer? Najera? Diaw? Jack?
We aren't rebuilding. We're tightening the budget because MJ doesn't want to operate in the red. As a businessman, I can understand. But as a competitor, I cannot.
dnbman
02-24-2011, 09:26 PM
Jack, diop, carroll, and najera's, contracts are any better?
Fellas, let me clarify my point that I think Spectre understood, despite more poor phrasing, after he reread my post:
We have a lot of bad contracts. We need to systematically rid ourselves of them and move forward rather than continuing to collect them in trying to make this team work.
Wallace's contract was not an albatross contract, but it was a large contract. Considering we were not able to move any of the other big contracts, we had to do something to start moving towards flexibility and rebuilding.
To put it another way, if we would have traded Jax and not Wallace, we would have been the same or worse in our playoff run and had to give up an asset. In trading Wallace, we acquired assets that could potentially really help us.
(Knowing exactly which two picks they are would go a long way toward making me feel relieved.)
spectre
02-24-2011, 09:27 PM
Spectre, I'm not going to address most of your points because you aren't thinking clearly enough right now anyways.
But after the new CBA is signed, GW would've been an albatross contract. This puts us and very few other teams in a good spot beyond this season.
Bull shit.
With the likes of guys like Gana Diop, Reggie Evans, Joel Przybilla, Matt Carroll, Maggette, Salmons, Gooden (need I go on?) a guy that brought what he did is well worth what he made. HE WON GAMES. Those others just take up space and are only making like 2-4 million LESS than Crash.
Of course.
These trades have nothing to do with rebuilding or hedging for the future. It's about the current state of affairs--the bottom line. I'll repost the "template" for rebuilding to drive the point home:
1. Bring in young talent
2. Bring in lottery picks
3. Get rid of albatross contracts
1? The best young piece we brought in was Dante. And he's never going to give you more than 10-15 minutes a game.
2? The New Orleans pick as it currently stands, is going to be 21st. That pick has little to no value for a rebuilding team because stars are rarely taken out the top 10. The Portland pick as it currently stands (I know it's not until 2013) is 19th, so read my previous statement. Also, the picks we traded our franchise player for? Teams routinely buy them for cash considerations on draft night.
3? Is Diop gone? Hammer? Najera? Diaw? Jack?
We aren't rebuilding. We're tightening the budget because MJ doesn't want to operate in the red. As a businessman, I can understand. But as a competitor, I cannot.
Exactly. All this positive stuff is just hope and rationalization. Jordan isn't thinking beyond that bottom line NOW.
dnbman
02-24-2011, 09:30 PM
1. Bring in young talent
2. Bring in lottery picks
3. Get rid of albatross contracts
But we don't have ANYTHING to do that with! Most of our contracts are multiple years that nobody wants. We can't convert any of those contracts into lottery picks or young talent. Wallace was the only piece we had to trade that would bring us back assets.
Ultimately, we have to ask ourselves: given our roster with Wallace, how likely is it that we would have escaped the first round over the next two years?
Probably very slim. So, yeah, we save a bunch of money and try to start rebuilding the best we can.
spectre
02-24-2011, 09:33 PM
Fellas, let me clarify my point that I think Spectre understood, despite more poor phrasing, after he reread my post:
We have a lot of bad contracts. We need to systematically rid ourselves of them and move forward rather than continuing to collect them in trying to make this team work.
Wallace's contract was not an albatross contract, but it was a large contract. Considering we were not able to move any of the other big contracts, we had to do something to start moving towards flexibility and rebuilding.
To put it another way, if we would have traded Jax and not Wallace, we would have been the same or worse in our playoff run and had to give up an asset. In trading Wallace, we acquired assets that could potentially really help us.
(Knowing exactly which two picks they are would go a long way toward making me feel relieved.)
But we didn't move any of those bad deals.
I'd MUCH rather have forgone those mid 1sts if they'd have taken Gana. I'd still be pissed, but at least I could see some reason behind it. As it sits now we STILL have those bad contracts and the players that are actually worth anything have been traded for cash and "maybes".
What's the odds of getting a starter with a 20th pick? Not only that...what's OUR odds of getting a starter with a 20th pick?
I understand getting assets. In my mind (and I can be wrong...yet to be deternined) those are mighty piddling assets, esp. for a guy who is 28 and was an all star last year.
spectre..I feel your pain but I feel MJs pain also...I admire the fact that the last two players on our team, Crash and Nazzy, are actually going to teams that may get some serious play off burn...and I love the fact they did not end up in a sh**-hole like Cleveland, although I like Cleveland fine I'm referring to the team...lol...
But, I think those of us (as realist) that thought we might have a chance for the playoffs knew we get blown out (again) in the first round...some of this trade was about money...we've practically doubled what what's coming off the books end of season...
It gives us time to see if we actually have some young guys on the roster we need to keep...
We have a couple of young players coming in we need to take a close look at...
We have two first round picks we did not have...
Crash and Nazzy were the best things for me left on this team...and damn if those two didn't continue to help this team on the way out...I'll miss them both because they are class guys...
MJ tried bringing in a HOF coach that pissed this franchise into cap-he**...and MJ knows we have to get out and still remain competitive...I think he is doing the best he can given the "failure" of LB and the contract he had to have...
DNB and others have pointed out slowly but surely we should (by 2013) get most of the albatross off...and these trades have helped us on that path...I hate them but I understand them...
Now...the FO had better "make good" on what they've done...I'm willing to give them the chance...
What DNB said. Wallace was the only guy who could have brought ANYTHING postive for the future in return. We would have had to pull a Baron Davis-esque giveaway trade to get rid of Gana or Carroll, and would only get an expiring for Jack.
dnbman
02-24-2011, 09:38 PM
I'd MUCH rather have forgone those mid 1sts if they'd have taken Gana.
We don't know what the picks are yet. Last I heard, we were getting the NO pick for this season and Portland's '13 pick, which could end up being nice if Roy can't get healthy. (Which, man, might also be sweet justice from the 2006 draft! No, I didn't say that, universe! I take it back!)
SWedd523
02-24-2011, 09:41 PM
But we don't have ANYTHING to do that with! Most of our contracts are multiple years that nobody wants. We can't convert any of those contracts into lottery picks or young talent. Wallace was the only piece we had to trade that would bring us back assets.
Ultimately, we have to ask ourselves: given our roster with Wallace, how likely is it that we would have escaped the first round over the next two years?
Probably very slim. So, yeah, we save a bunch of money and try to start rebuilding the best we can.
Here's one example: Crash and Diop for Yao would have been nice. Save a shitload of money and we can buy a 21st pick for $3mil when the draft rolls around
Here's one example: Crash and Diop for Yao would have been nice. Save a shitload of money and we can buy a 21st pick for $3mil when the draft rolls around
And how do we know Houston would've done that?
SWedd523
02-24-2011, 09:46 PM
And how do we know Houston would've done that?
We don't, but that doesn't mean we trade him for a bag of expired potato chips and two picks we could've bought come draft time.
WrxErik
02-24-2011, 09:51 PM
To see what our young players can contribute? We now have really only one young player to observe since we took on a bunch of trash and cut our other young players. The other young one was already starting. Also this "rebuild" wont matter until 2013 which by that time all of our bad contracts would have been gone anyway. Once again this is a short term money saving move. Just like the Tyson Chandler trade and not resigning felton. Even though I hated Tyson the trade sucked ass just like both of these.
Felton for Prez
02-24-2011, 09:52 PM
I'll call Jordan an idiot...no, how about a STUPID FUCKING IDIOT.
This.
I can't discuss this rationally at this point.
dnbman
02-24-2011, 09:54 PM
To see what our young players can contribute? We now have really only one young player to observe since we took on a bunch of trash and cut our other young players. The other young one was already starting. Also this "rebuild" wont matter until 2013 which by that time all of our bad contracts would have been gone anyway. Once again this is a short term money saving move. Just like the Tyson Chandler trade and not resigning felton. Even though I hated Tyson the trade sucked ass just like both of these.
We've got four young players to keep looking at: DJ, Gerald, DJ White, and Dante. Dante was getting 20 minutes a night on a playoff team. DJ hasn't done much, but he's also had two injuries that shouldn't affect his long term potential.
...and with two first (or the opportunity to trade up) next year and the players DNB has already pointed out the "rebuild" has started...
There is a damn good chance these trades would never occurred if not for the black hole start...and that's on LB and the players...I'm all for starting now since it is said and done...
But I get the anger...but frankly I'm much more pissed with LB than anyone in the FO now...
WrxErik
02-24-2011, 10:03 PM
The FO approved what LB wanted so it is still on them. Just another way of proving how incompetent they are.
spectre
02-24-2011, 10:06 PM
The FO approved what LB wanted so it is still on them. Just proving more how incompetent they are.
...and I'm still of the firm belief that we were in MUCH better hands with LB choosing the players over the lollipop. He at least had us moving forward. Jordan has us going backwards...and not even in the right way. A half assed way, which will never end well.
We'll be just like the freaking Bucks. He'll clear all this money moving good players and then most likely trade for some other anchor like Cory Maggette. Jordan can't help himself.
All the things said about LB are true. In our situation however that is much better than what we have now.
dnbman
02-24-2011, 10:11 PM
The FO approved what LB wanted so it is still on them. Just proving more how incompetent they are.
Let's all agree that they have been terrible, inept, incompetent; we have become a mediocre team that can make the playoffs in a mostly bad Eastern Conference.
What would you ask them to do to make it right?
MAKE THIS TEAM A WINNER.
In the current arms race of the NBA, you virtually have to have multiple superstars to be a true contender. I'm now convinced that things have changed enough since the Piston's last title that a solid blue collar team will not win a championship, despite my desire to believe otherwise. We could continue tinkering with what we have, but we would likely continue to spin our wheels for the next fews seasons, wondering if we have just enough to get into the playoffs only to be beaten soundly by the super teams.
REBUILD.
Love to, but we have a horrendous collection of contracts that we'd have to pay (in the form of assets-- draft picks, DJ, etc.) someone to take from us. We have little in the way of youth to build on, as our two best young players, DJ and Tyrus, both have significant question marks. Considering we're always mediocre, we'd not likely get a good enough draft pick to be a true difference maker.
So, what do we do?
My guess: try to convert the aging players we have into youth and draft picks over a couple of years so that we are not giving up assets to rid ourselves of contracts. In the process, we wait out the dominance of the current superpowers, and try to reload in a couple of seasons.
I think that's the only path we can take.
WrxErik
02-24-2011, 10:12 PM
Oh and I like Tyrus Thomas and all but it was a little premature to give him his contract. I hope he can live up to it but if you are looking to build for the future that kind of contract is not helping. Oh and neither is giving a coach a 1 year contract and then trading players he has been having success with for a bunch of guys he is going to have to create new chemistry with.
dnbman
02-24-2011, 10:14 PM
Oh and I like Tyrus Thomas and all but it was a little premature to give him his contract. I hope he can live up to it but if you are looking to build for the future that kind of contract is not helping. Oh and neither is giving a coach a 1 year contract and then trading players he has been having success with for a bunch of guys he is going to have to create new chemistry with.
Consider the next two years a hold pattern. Silas's extension allows the Bobcats to deal with one less headache with a coach who won't demand much, as he's just happy to be there.
Oh! And I don't understand the Tyrus contract given that Diaw was kept and made the starter. In fact, I'm a bit baffled he wasn't traded today.
The FO approved what LB wanted so it is still on them. Just another way of proving how incompetent they are.
I was solidly 100% opposed to LB coming here...never had an ILBIT on anything (before this post) I ever wrote...but I think an owner would have to be an absolute dumb ass to hire a guy who is a HOF Coach and not try his direction...
That said...we suffered the fate of any LB led team...but we've gotten off better than most...and I gave kudos to MJ for firing his worthless a**...
I was opposed to the whole "blow-it-up syndrome (and check past post if you don't believe me) that over took so many this year...but after these trades I accept the fact we were headed nowhere fast...so I'm willing to give it a chance...
I've been pissed about lots of things this franchise has done...but when your neck deep in poo you either pull out or sink...I think we're trying to pull out...so I'll give it one more chance...
...and let me just add...I'm one of the dumb asses that's put money where his mouth is by having some form of season ticket since year two of this franchise...I've lived (with many of my dear older brothers here) through the Sam "I Am Fine Ham Biscuit" times...this is just a hiccup (IMO) compared to that...
Scottley Crue
02-24-2011, 10:19 PM
I feel sure Diaw will be moved, but I believe his value will rise after this year when his contract is expiring (unless he inexplicably doesn't use his player option, which this is Boris...). If a contender viewed him as a missing piece, I bet he'd be gone by now. But that doesn't seem to be the case.
SWedd523
02-24-2011, 10:19 PM
What's really shitty is that we aren't going to really be able to rebuild until after 2013. http://hoopshype.com/salaries/charlotte.htm
That means we have two more years of not being able to add any high level players and stuck drafting players in the 10-16 range. So be prepared for another 2 years of "Holy shit we suck" because we just traded our best chip without getting rid of the albatrosses on the roster.
I feel sure Diaw will be moved, but I believe his value will rise after this year when his contract is expiring (unless he inexplicably doesn't use his player option, which this is Boris...). If a contender viewed him as a missing piece, I bet he'd be gone by now. But that doesn't seem to be the case.
scottley...I think (after all these years) the rest of the league views him as "Doris"...bag of popcorn anyone...LOL
dnbman
02-24-2011, 10:22 PM
What's really shitty is that we aren't going to really be able to rebuild until after 2013. http://hoopshype.com/salaries/charlotte.htm
That means we have two more years of not being able to add any high level players and stuck drafting players in the 10-16 range. So be prepared for another 2 years of "Holy shit we suck" because we just traded our best chip without getting rid of the albatrosses on the roster.
Absolutely. But that was the situation with Wallace also.
WrxErik
02-24-2011, 10:23 PM
When it comes down to it we could have got similar picks if we would have kept the team as is and waited for players to turn into expiring contracts and traded them as they came for picks. Which considering the position of the picks we got today I would think we could have got either a decent player or a similar pick in return. Instead we rush things and trade the one player on the team that means more to the franchise then words can explain. I really hope we retire his number.
Imo, trading Wallace for what we did would be like if the Lakers were to trade Kobe for picks because they know he is getting older and wont be around forever. Or how would MJ have felt if the Bulls were like hey we no you are getting older so we are going to trade you for some draft picks and a few expiring contracts.
I know they both won championships but the Cats are a very new team. So to accomplish what we did in a short time means a lot to the fans.
Scottley Crue
02-24-2011, 10:28 PM
I was solidly 100% opposed to LB coming here...never had an ILBIT on anything (before this post) I ever wrote...but I think an owner would have to be an absolute dumb ass to hire a guy who is a HOF Coach and not try his direction...
That said...we suffered the fate of any LB led team...but we've gotten off better than most...and I gave kudos to MJ for firing his worthless a**...
I was opposed to the whole "blow-it-up syndrome (and check past post if you don't believe me) that over took so many this year...but after these trades I accept the fact we were headed nowhere fast...so I'm willing to give it a chance...
I've been pissed about lots of things this franchise has done...but when your neck deep in poo you either pull out or sink...I think we're trying to pull out...so I'll give it one more chance...
I'm with you 10000000% on the last part of this. I did support LB's hiring, and like you, understand that hiring a HOF coach would entail giving him what he feels he needs to be successful. But his type of team doesn't seem to work nearly as well without him running it.
I didn't want to blow things up, either, but after really looking at it, the ceiling for this team is probably a 6th seed and perhaps a playoff series win. Nothing shameful about that, but that's about all you could expect, I believe. These moves really give financial flexibility as well as future young talents. Adding whatever that brings to Augustin, Hendo, Tyrus, Cunningham and a nice scoring vet like Jack is a move I can support now. And I put my money where my mouth is as well, so I understand where you're coming from on that as well.
I know they both won championships but the Cats are a very new team. So to accomplish what we did in a short time means a lot to the fans.
I agree...but it is highly unlikely we were going back to the playoffs this year...our schedule works completely against us...as for the picks...
We have no idea (and no one really seems to) what the new CBA will be...and having two picks in hand (2011 and 2013) doubles the odds we can move up with those picks and get an actual player...
...and as for Crash (and I pray that this does not happen) there is no guarantee that another injury in the next game will not be his last...
All of it (trade or no trade) is a crap shoot...
Scottley Crue
02-24-2011, 10:29 PM
scottley...I think (after all these years) the rest of the league views him as "Doris"...bag of popcorn anyone...LOL
Actually, I think the problem is he got his one dunk this year out of the way Tuesday night. If he still had that in the tank, who knows?...
Actually, I think the problem is he got his one dunk this year out of the way Tuesday night. If he still had that in the tank, who knows?...
ROFLMAO...yes...he might show up for 2 games out of 5...
SWedd523
02-24-2011, 10:31 PM
Absolutely. But that was the situation with Wallace also.
So:
Option 1--Be a cash strapped, yet borderline playoff team with the only player the fans of Charlotte truly love for two more years then blow it up.
Option 2--Be a cash strapped, yet borderline lottery team with no players the fans of Charlotte truly love for two more years then blow it up. (But hey, we can use those new picks on more Lexy Ajincas!)
Sure glad we went with #2!
Who (other than LB) would have drafted AA...
WrxErik
02-24-2011, 10:39 PM
Who (other than LB) would have drafted AA...
I mean the guy is still playing in the league so I think someone would have grabbed him.
spectre
02-24-2011, 10:43 PM
So:
Option 1--Be a cash strapped, yet borderline playoff team with the only player the fans of Charlotte truly love for two more years then blow it up.
Option 2--Be a cash strapped, yet borderline lottery team with no players the fans of Charlotte truly love for two more years then blow it up. (But hey, we can use those new picks on more Lexy Ajincas!)
Sure glad we went with #2!
What he said.
spectre
02-24-2011, 10:46 PM
Who (other than LB) would have drafted AA...
They were targeting Hibbert. Not LB's fault he went before that pick we traded for.
The draft isn't what LB was for anyway, tho he was sure to influence it. He brought order to a gang of street ballers. We desperately needed that. I'd gladly waste a 20th pick on crap for what he provided...esp. since odds are that's what you're going to get picking in that area anyway.
Don't forget that it was MJ on the other end of that high five after we traded for Gana. Also don't forget that if it wasn't for LB Crash would have been gone 2 years ago for TJ MF Ford.
I mean the guy is still playing in the league so I think someone would have grabbed him.
yes well...playing...as of this nano-second (theoretically) E. Curry is still playing in the NBA...
Addition: take it with the humor in which it was said...:biggrin:
Don't forget that it was MJ on the other end of that high five after we traded for Gana. Also don't forget that if it wasn't for LB Crash would have been gone 2 years ago for TJ MF Ford.
This...proves anyone can be right at some point in time...LOL
The League (every other team) was correct about Diop...LB was correct about Crash...
dnbman
02-24-2011, 11:09 PM
So:
Option 1--Be a cash strapped, yet borderline playoff team with the only player the fans of Charlotte truly love for two more years then blow it up.
Option 2--Be a cash strapped, yet borderline lottery team with no players the fans of Charlotte truly love for two more years then blow it up. (But hey, we can use those new picks on more Lexy Ajincas!)
Sure glad we went with #2!
But if we keep Crash, we give less time to Henderson to see if he develops, we don't have Cunningham (who, again, was playing twenty minutes a night for a playoff team), and we don't have the two first round picks which could possibly net us something useful.
We also have the legitimate chance that Wallace gets hurt and we get nothing for him.
Again, I think my positivity right now is actually coming from extreme negativity this season. Even though I'm arguing, I understand where you, Spectre and many others are coming from.
WrxErik
02-24-2011, 11:14 PM
There would have been nothing wrong with having Henderson play the sixth man role which honestly this team has never truly had. That is one of the reasons why I think we were playing some pretty good basketball as of late.
dnbman
02-24-2011, 11:20 PM
There would have been nothing wrong with having Henderson play the sixth man role which honestly this team has never truly had. That is one of the reasons why I think we were playing some pretty good basketball as of late.
True, but giving him confidence and consistent minutes as a starter could also greatly help him develop.
At the very least, we have more to evaluate to decide what to do with him.
SWedd523
02-24-2011, 11:23 PM
I think you're overstating the PT for Dante a bit. I think he's a solid bench role player, sure, but not something you look at in a couple of years and go, "Boy am I glad we picked him up!"
I understand the stance on the Crash fragility and I totally agree with it, but I think we had some better options on the table but went with the "money move" and traded Crash for nothing. It wasn't because we're rebuilding. Also, just so we're clear, I've been on the blow it up bandwagon since we fired LB and totally support trading Crash........ but only if we trade everybody over 25 and/or making more than $6mil, with Tyrus being the exception. If we can find a way to get rid of Jack and Diaw for some value and buyout Najera, Hammer, and Diop, then I'll firmly support our "future" talks.
Until then, nobody will change my mind that these trades were to save MJ some money.
dnbman
02-24-2011, 11:26 PM
Until then, nobody will change my mind that these trades were to save MJ some money.
What if I give you $3 delivered in Selena Gomez's thong, which is wrapped around Selena Gomez?
SWedd523
02-24-2011, 11:29 PM
What if I give you $3 delivered in Selena Gomez's thong, which is wrapped around Selena Gomez?
you'd have me convinced.
But since that's sadly never going to happen. I remain unconvinced!
I think you're overstating the PT for Dante a bit. I think he's a solid bench role player, sure, but not something you look at in a couple of years and go, "Boy am I glad we picked him up!"
His profile at NBA says he was playing 19.8 mpg...5.1 ppg...3.1 rpg...not great stats but he was getting some time...not sure what Paul can/will do with him...but the time is correct...
WrxErik
02-24-2011, 11:37 PM
All I can say is the coaching staff is probably pissed. But at the same time there like at least we are getting paid.
SWedd523
02-24-2011, 11:46 PM
No lol, I wasn't disputing the PT. Just that him getting the PT doesn't mean anything. He was getting that time because Oden, Camby, Przybilla are all injured and LMA is the only other big on the roster.
Look at both Dante and Tyrus. They both average about 20 minutes a game. Tyrus more than doubles his output in points and blocks. Nearly doubles him up in rebounds. Gets more assists and steals (though only by percentage points). He also has a higher FG%, TS%. He also shits on him in PER (19.6 to 9.5) and beats him in both ORtg and DRtg.
In other words, he's not shit compared to Tyrus.
SWedd...I don't doubt injuries playing a part in his PT theory...especially any time at the 5 he got...but he had to be like the 4th or 5th option...I'm not sure how to evaluate his burn with the Blazers...but I'm looking forward to seeing if he has anything...
dnbman
02-24-2011, 11:50 PM
In other words, he's not shit compared to Tyrus.
He also plays for 10% of Tyrus's salary. He's also a second year player.
He doesn't have to be a superstar to contribute.
Just so we clear, he's nothing to get excited about, agreed. But it does seem he can contribute.
SWedd523
02-24-2011, 11:52 PM
He also plays for 10% of Tyrus's salary. He's also a second year player.
for good reason ;)
He doesn't have to be a superstar to contribute.
Eddy Najera says hello
Just so we clear, he's nothing to get excited about, agreed. But it does seem he can contribute.
I'm still waiting on my Selena Gomez package.
Dcarnys
02-25-2011, 12:02 AM
What if I give you $3 delivered in Selena Gomez's thong, which is wrapped around Selena Gomez?
Could I hit that offer up too?? If its still on the table??
BlockParty
02-25-2011, 12:17 AM
We also have the legitimate chance that Wallace gets hurt and we get nothing for him.
I think this played a bigger role than most realize in why we were entertaining/seeking suitors for GW. There have been at least 5 times over the last 3 years where I was amazed he actually got up after a fall. And Portland's medical staff hasn't been known to actually uncover any aliments in their prospective players (Roy's knees, Oden's knees)
WrxErik
02-25-2011, 12:18 AM
Could I hit that offer up too?? If its still on the table??
The Damn Bobcats should be offering that to all of their pissed off fans. It is the least they could could do.
Here's how I see it.
We were a 7th, 8th seed playoff team with Wallace. Without him we finish anywhere from 8th to 10th. Point being, MJ decided shooting for the 7th seed wasn't good enough for him and traded for the future. If we still make the playoffs we can call this a job well done because not only do we make the playoffs but we've set ourselves up to add young talent in the future.
ND...I wasn't holding my breath for the playoffs with Crash (considering our schedule)...I'd be shocked if we made it now...I mean really shocked...
...I guess stunedly(if it was a word) shocked would be closer...
frontpager
02-25-2011, 01:03 AM
whats the point of getting to playoffs just to lose in first round? We werent winning a championship with the squad we had and with mid first round picks and an aging core we werent going to improve to one. Now we take a step in rebuilding with cap space and first round picks to get to this point. MJ is not going to be satisfied with anything less than championship so we might as well rebuild.
ND...I wasn't holding my breath for the playoffs with Crash (considering our schedule)...I'd be shocked if we made it now...I mean really shocked...
...I guess stunedly(if it was a word) shocked would be closer...
My reasoning has always been that I just don't think Indiana is that good. We're a 1 1/2 out of 8th. Maybe I'm optimistic but I think we can do it, especially when TT gets back.
My reasoning has always been that I just don't think Indiana is that good. We're a 1 1/2 out of 8th. Maybe I'm optimistic but I think we can do it, especially when TT gets back.
Once their "new coach shine" wears off, they'll lose some more. Once Tyrus gets back, if Hendo keeps up his pace then losing Gerald won't hurt at all.
SWedd523
02-25-2011, 03:16 AM
Sorry guys, Selena is MINEZ
Demon DeaCat
02-25-2011, 06:37 AM
I'll start with the disclaimer that if anything in this post is redundant I apologize and feel free to disregard. I just don't have it in me to read the thousands of posts on two boards that have been written since yesterday afternoon, but these are original thoughts even if they've already been stated previously.
After taking the night to digest all of this, here's my take. I'm not saying I would have advocated for this trade to happen (I wouldn't have), but since it has I'm going to try to be positive. No matter how you slice it, it just stinks to lose GW. Even though we all know deep down he isn't quite the same Crash we've come to love, it still hurts (a lot) to see him go, especially considering what we got in return. But most people who post here understand that trades don't have to match talent for talent to be beneficial. This is great for Hendo, who in many ways is a younger, albeit smaller version of GW. He brings the same energy, defensive prowess, athleticism and highlight reel capability as a young GW. Now he'll have the PT to take his game to the next level, and that's a good thing for him and us.
Also, not lost in all of this is the fact that we will have only roughly $23 mil on the books at the end of next season. I can't help but think that MJ is setting the table to shoot for the moon and make a run at the CP/Dwight mother load in 2012. If so, I applaud the effort. It probably won't happen, however, you have to be in the game to have a chance to win the game, and after this move we should be in it. I've never worshipped cap space as much as some others, but it is fun to think about what might be and I have to admit, this trade does change the landscape considerably. Particularly if NO ever gets to the place Utah did with Williams and decides to cut their losses, we now have the assets to put forth a reasonable trade offer for CP if we wanted to package draft picks, DJ, etc. If we could get CP here, then landing Howard wouldn't be a stretch. Even without a trade, we would be one of the few teams with the available space to sign them both.
But whatever the outcome, this was a trade that was clearly made with the future in mind and I accept that. As for right now, all I ask of these guys is to give me a reason to care about these last 25 games. We may or not make the playoffs, but I just want our games to matter until at least the last week of the season. If Hendo is as good as a starter as he's looked as a 6th man and TT gets back soon then I think we've still got a shot.
Here's hoping that NBA relevance awaits us on the other side of this.
When it comes down to it we could have got similar picks if we would have kept the team as is and waited for players to turn into expiring contracts and traded them as they came for picks. Which considering the position of the picks we got today I would think we could have got either a decent player or a similar pick in return. Instead we rush things and trade the one player on the team that means more to the franchise then words can explain. I really hope we retire his number.
Imo, trading Wallace for what we did would be like if the Lakers were to trade Kobe for picks because they know he is getting older and wont be around forever. Or how would MJ have felt if the Bulls were like hey we no you are getting older so we are going to trade you for some draft picks and a few expiring contracts.
I know they both won championships but the Cats are a very new team. So to accomplish what we did in a short time means a lot to the fans.
kobe does not equal crash now or ever. kobe sells out arenas, crash does not. kobe can win you a championship, crash can not. kobe makes you money, crash does not. and mj does all that but 100x better than kobe in the 90's.
as far as the expirings thing: expirings only turn into picks if you take on more bad salary which we wouldn't do. no way in two years do we turn jax, diop and filler into joe johnson and picks. you aren't getting picks or young guys for expirings unless you take back bad contracts. prime example: nazr, joel pryz, vince carter (had to take on turk). the only way it works is if you move someone like dj with an expiring. you have to give incentive.
There would have been nothing wrong with having Henderson play the sixth man role which honestly this team has never truly had. That is one of the reasons why I think we were playing some pretty good basketball as of late.
very accurate statement
True, but giving him confidence and consistent minutes as a starter could also greatly help him develop.
At the very least, we have more to evaluate to decide what to do with him.
or the pressure could cause him to regress. for the first time in his short career he looks comfortable with his role and is improving dramatically on the court. against toronto he was playing with, dare i say, swagger.
or he could prove to be a limelight guy and prove to be a good pickup for us. i just hope there is no regression.
His profile at NBA says he was playing 19.8 mpg...5.1 ppg...3.1 rpg...not great stats but he was getting some time...not sure what Paul can/will do with him...but the time is correct...
maybe it is because they have 3 injured centers and had no choice. i am not looking at him as a "promising young guy". he is salary filler.
Boomer
02-25-2011, 10:51 AM
Of course.
These trades have nothing to do with rebuilding or hedging for the future. It's about the current state of affairs--the bottom line. I'll repost the "template" for rebuilding to drive the point home:
1. Bring in young talent
2. Bring in lottery picks
3. Get rid of albatross contracts
1? The best young piece we brought in was Dante. And he's never going to give you more than 10-15 minutes a game.
2? The New Orleans pick as it currently stands, is going to be 21st. That pick has little to no value for a rebuilding team because stars are rarely taken out the top 10. The Portland pick as it currently stands (I know it's not until 2013) is 19th, so read my previous statement. Also, the picks we traded our franchise player for? Teams routinely buy them for cash considerations on draft night.
3? Is Diop gone? Hammer? Najera? Diaw? Jack?
We aren't rebuilding. We're tightening the budget because MJ doesn't want to operate in the red. As a businessman, I can understand. But as a competitor, I cannot.
Agree, 1000%. Couldn't have said it any better myself
SWedd523
02-25-2011, 11:05 AM
Also, not lost in all of this is the fact that we will have only roughly $23 mil on the books at the end of next season.
As it currently stands, we have around 50 million on the books for next year and around 42 million for the year after that. It sounds nice until you realize that the 50 million is only dedicated to ten players, of which NONE are Centers and only ONE is a Small Forward. So we'll have roughly 15 mil to invest in multiple big men and backup wings.... before you consider the CBA could make money even tighter.
In 2012/13, we have 42 on the books for 8 players. Our depth chart that year (without signings) is:
DJ/Livingston
Henderson/Hammer
Jack
Tyrus/White
Diop
That is a ton of money for a ton of sucktitude, the only good players on the team by then will be Tyrus, DJ, and maybe Hendo.
The nice thing, is that the following year only holds commitments to Tyrus and Hendo, so we'll be able to really rebuild starting in 2013/14. The bad thing is, we probably have to wait at least 2 more years for the rebuild to start
EC123
02-25-2011, 11:11 AM
If you think the Wallace trade was a good trade then you believe that based on pure speculation. As of now it is a terrible trade and we got worse not better.The Bobcats got worse RIGHT NOW.
Why care about RIGHT NOW? Fact is, the Bobcats weren't going ANYWHERE, and even if they made it to the Playoffs with a terrible record, they'd be done in one series.
Fans can be emotional idiots. Be realistic. With these 1st round picks to go with their existing one, the Bobcats might be able to get a great player if they can trade up. If not, they have a lot of 1st Rd picks the next two seasons to build a better young nucleus.
Jordan may even be clearing some space to go after a superstar in the offseason or next year. Either way, when the dust finally settles, the Bobcats will be better than they were with Wallace, because the team had pretty much PEAKED as it was constructed.
Hopefully Jackson is next.
polarcat
02-25-2011, 11:28 AM
Being stuck at work last night from 3-12 was bad on trade deadline day, but as I was on Wednesday, kinda glad I wasn't on here, because I would've been posting every 2 minutes. I did get to sleep on it and I can't help but think it's very similar to Memphis' trade of Pau Gasol, but not as serious. I get that sometimes teams have to make trades like this if they are looking to the future and for financial reasons. That being said, we could've gotten more for our stud player. Dante Cunningham and a couple of future picks? They offered us Pryz + draft picks, we said no and wanted Batum or no deal. What do we end up with? They say no to Batum and toss in Cunningham. The draft picks we got, as other posters have alluded to, are going to be more than likely after the 15th pick. That doesn't excite me unless they can be packaged in trades to acquire the pieces we need (i.e- top 5 pick, CP3, etc.). I have no problem shipping Wallace out (even though he's my favorite Bobcat) if we get fair return and I don't think we did. Houston's young players? Denver? OKC? Nope.... we get a player similar to UPS, a bum center to replace our veteran center, and some picks.
Now, I can't be too negative because I get why we did it. I don't think with DJ, Hendo, Jack, Diaw, TT, Kwame and our bench that we are too much worse than we were yesterday, and we probably can still compete for the #8/#7 seed. It will be rough with the schedule and not having our warrior of a captain there, but I think Hendo is ready for primetime. Going to stay positive and have no desire to see highlights or games with Wallace on the Blazers, though I wish him all the best. You will be missed G-Force!!
Demon DeaCat
02-25-2011, 12:20 PM
As it currently stands, we have around 50 million on the books for next year and around 42 million for the year after that. It sounds nice until you realize that the 50 million is only dedicated to ten players, of which NONE are Centers and only ONE is a Small Forward. So we'll have roughly 15 mil to invest in multiple big men and backup wings.... before you consider the CBA could make money even tighter.
In 2012/13, we have 42 on the books for 8 players. Our depth chart that year (without signings) is:
DJ/Livingston
Henderson/Hammer
Jack
Tyrus/White
Diop
That is a ton of money for a ton of sucktitude, the only good players on the team by then will be Tyrus, DJ, and maybe Hendo.
The nice thing, is that the following year only holds commitments to Tyrus and Hendo, so we'll be able to really rebuild starting in 2013/14. The bad thing is, we probably have to wait at least 2 more years for the rebuild to start
Swedd,
How do you figure that we have 42 on the books for 12/13? Unless I'm totally reading the hoopshype chart wrong (which is possible) our only guaranteed contracts are:
Jack- 10
TT- 8
Gana- 7.3
Carroll- 3.5
That's a total of 28.8.
It's likely we'd pick up Hendo and DJ, but we wouldn't have to.
WrxErik
02-25-2011, 01:59 PM
kobe does not equal crash now or ever. kobe sells out arenas, crash does not. kobe can win you a championship, crash can not. kobe makes you money, crash does not. and mj does all that but 100x better than kobe in the 90's.
If you don't think that Wallace was the equivalent to kobe or MJ to the Bobcats then you must have crazy expectations for such a young team. Wallace did not sell out arenas but he put asses in seats more than anyone ever on our team. There is no way we are getting to the finals so we are not getting a championship anyways. But he did take us to our first ever playoff appearance. Finally if you don't think Crash made us money you are delusional. #1 selling jersey, face of the franchise, always featured when trying to sell season tickets. I mean hell go look at the bobcats facebook page. Everyone is freaking out. The loss of Wallace alone will decrease ticket sales and attendance.
Also for everyone who thinks Cunningham is a young asset you are wrong. He is nothing more than an expiring. That is all we got back in these trades. 2 picks and money in MJ's pocket.
Also what makes you really believe MJ is serious about trying to bring a championship here, and attract quality free agents? I would think if that was on his agenda he would focus on things like getting a larger TV market so fans can actually watch their team on TV. But guess what, that cost money so that is why it has not happened. What about maybe a more attractive team name. It has been discussed so much and it is well know that the majority of fans do not care for the name. If the fans do not like it, do you really think actual players like it? I mean shit they make a huge reference to it on a freaking video game for gods sake. But once again guess what, That costs money. Are you following the trend yet or do I need to continue?
SWedd523
02-25-2011, 02:16 PM
Jack- 10.06
Tyrus- 8
Diop- 7.3722
Carroll- 3.5
Shaun- 3.5 (TO)
DJ- 4.3854
Hendo- 3.1013
White- 3.0018
If you don't think that Wallace was the equivalent to kobe or MJ to the Bobcats then you must have crazy expectations for such a young team. Wallace did not sell out arenas but he put asses in seats more than anyone ever on our team. There is no way we are getting to the finals so we are not getting a championship anyways. But he did take us to our first ever playoff appearance. Finally if you don't think Crash made us money you are delusional. #1 selling jersey, face of the franchise, always featured when trying to sell season tickets. I mean hell go look at the bobcats facebook page. Everyone is freaking out. The loss of Wallace alone will decrease ticket sales and attendance.
Also for everyone who thinks Cunningham is a young asset you are wrong. He is nothing more than an expiring. That is all we got back in these trades. 2 picks and money in MJ's pocket.
Also what makes you really believe MJ is serious about trying to bring a championship here, and attract quality free agents? I would think if that was on his agenda he would focus on things like getting a larger TV market so fans can actually watch their team on TV. But guess what, that cost money so that is why it has not happened. What about maybe a more attractive team name. It has been discussed so much and it is well know that the majority of fans do not care for the name. If the fans do not like it, do you really think actual players like it? I mean shit they make a huge reference to it on a freaking video game for gods sake. But once again guess what, That costs money. Are you following the trend yet or do I need to continue?
the bobcats lose money. wallace was the face of the franchise but someone has to be so it was his job by default/seniority. the bobcats are a joke of a franchise compared to other teams in the league. look, i love the cats and so do several thousand people in and around charlotte, but for all of the reasons you mentioned in the subsequent paragraphs, crash can not be compared to kobe or mj. yes, people came to see crash (my wife said she is going to miss hearing gerald w w w wallace after hearing he was traded) but we barely sell out the lower bowl on weekend games much less week night games. he may be OUR mj or kobe, but he is a d-league sideshow compared to the impact those players have around the league and beyond.
as for the rest of your post, couldn't agree more.
Jack- 10.06
Tyrus- 8
Diop- 7.3722
Carroll- 3.5
Shaun- 3.5 (TO)
DJ- 4.3854
Hendo- 3.1013
White- 3.0018
this is exactly why we should package our NO pick with diop and move him at draft time for an expiring contract. it is also exactly why we should have never given tyrus that ridiculous contract.
Marvel
02-25-2011, 04:28 PM
Trade grade. Z-
SWedd523
02-25-2011, 04:29 PM
We should have packaged Diop with Crash
WrxErik
02-25-2011, 04:41 PM
the bobcats lose money. wallace was the face of the franchise but someone has to be so it was his job by default/seniority. the bobcats are a joke of a franchise compared to other teams in the league. look, i love the cats and so do several thousand people in and around charlotte, but for all of the reasons you mentioned in the subsequent paragraphs, crash can not be compared to kobe or mj. yes, people came to see crash (my wife said she is going to miss hearing gerald w w w wallace after hearing he was traded) but we barely sell out the lower bowl on weekend games much less week night games. he may be OUR mj or kobe, but he is a d-league sideshow compared to the impact those players have around the league and beyond.
as for the rest of your post, couldn't agree more.
I understand what you mean Chef. But yeah Mj says he wants to make this team relevant and win a title but those are just words to bring him more money. All the actions he has made up to this point say otherwise though which is what sucks.
I understand what you mean Chef. But yeah Mj says he wants to make this team relevant and win a title but those are just words to bring him more money. All the actions he has made up to this point say otherwise though which is what sucks.
as a business man and owner mj probably does not want to lose money on a team that has no shot at a title and has reached its peak. i don't blame him for this deal. it is one of more to come. i think as fans we come up with our version of how the cats rebuild should go in that we say lets move diaw for this, naz for this, package jax with diop for this etc. in less than 2 years we have come up with a plan to rebuild and start with an OKC type team. the problem is jordan is forced to do it for real with real gm's and owners who are looking out for their best interests financially and competitively. this is the first step, it just happens to involve our favorite player because apparently no other vet on our roster was worth much to the other teams. this rebuild is going to take years to get to back to even and then a few years of up and coming status. it is not going to be a fun time to be a cat's fan.
i would have loved to see us move crash and diop for pryz and another expiring but it just wasn't going to happen. his injury risk and future salary obligations made him less valuable to other teams than what we value him.
Powered by vBulletin™ Version 4.0.6 Copyright © 2013 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.