View Full Version : The worst part of the Crash trade
JGib23
03-02-2011, 11:24 PM
That it just happened, wish we would have cashed the chips in earlier in the season. With the current roster we could have challenged Cleveland for the worst record in the league.
What an embarrassing roster:facepalm:
Before everyone gets too crazy, I think the altitude played a small part in this. NOTHING was falling, even for DJ and Jack. Denver is a good team, and they knew what they were doing.
However, Boris, DJ and Jack need a fire lit up their asses.
Before everyone gets too crazy, I think the altitude played a small part in this. NOTHING was falling, even for DJ and Jack. Denver is a good team, and they knew what they were doing.
However, Boris, DJ and Jack need a fire lit up their asses.
Teej...I have to call BS...the bench out-scored the starters 43-37...and they played in the same building at the same altitude...we simply sucked tonight...and our "starters" really sucked...
Black
03-02-2011, 11:55 PM
Have we lost by 40 before? I assume we have, but I can't remember.
K!NG Wacko
03-03-2011, 12:01 AM
No it was worst loss in franchise history. Boris looked fat
JGib23
03-03-2011, 12:01 AM
Have we lost by 40 before? I assume we have, but I can't remember.
No, worst loss in franchise history!
This team is so, so bad at this point.
Hope the ping pong gods are good to us. Of course with the CBA unresolved- this could be the worst draft in some time if the young kids stay in school.
Not a lot to be optimistic about at this point. 2013 season or bust I guess
Proudiddy
03-03-2011, 01:15 AM
No, worst loss in franchise history!
This team is so, so bad at this point.
Hope the ping pong gods are good to us. Of course with the CBA unresolved- this could be the worst draft in some time if the young kids stay in school.
Not a lot to be optimistic about at this point. 2013 season or bust I guess
Yeah, I said in the game chat that it's very possible that this team loses all of the remaining games. There is absolutely no defense. If our offense would've been clicking, then we would've only lost by 15 or so because we can't stop anyone, but this defense is HORRIBLE.
MJ looks like an even bigger douche for waiting to trade till the deadline now. If you're gonna go all out in "rebuild" mode as people are trying to suggest the Crash trade was doing, then you need to "liquidate" all assets on the roster. He really f'ed up now because watch what happens with Jack when we have about 10 more losses like this (by 20+ points).
TattoodCats4life
03-03-2011, 02:55 AM
There is a piece of me that feels this trade will trump the drafting of Kwame incident when Jordan's NBA business career is chronicled at a later date.
BlockParty
03-03-2011, 06:31 AM
NOTHING was falling
C'mon teej, read the other comments, the Sky is Falling!
Go Cats
ammofan
03-03-2011, 06:42 AM
I dont even have a comment.
Scottley Crue
03-03-2011, 06:47 AM
C'mon teej, read the other comments, the Sky is Falling!
Go Cats
It kinda reads to me like not only is the sky falling, but the ground is coming up, too.
I believe the worst part about this trade is that it requires patience to see what comes of it. Patience is very much a virtue here.
ohara831
03-03-2011, 06:54 AM
It kinda reads to me like not only is the sky falling, but the ground is coming up, too.
I believe the worst part about this trade is that it requires patience to see what comes of it. Patience is very much a virtue here.
Very true. We've had games where all our starters just were way off. Last night was one. Just a real bad game. Team needs to put it behind them and move on.
dwest13cavs
03-03-2011, 07:40 AM
You all throw around the drafting of Kwame brown as a Jordan mistake, but TRY to go back 10 years to that time period. There were about 7 different candidates to be drafted #1 overall. There was not a clear cut order to the top 7/8 picks or so. Eddie Griffin, Pau Gasol, Tyson Chandler, Eddie Curry, Battier, Jason Richardson, Diop, Kwame... those were the options.
From all accounts the Wizards were going to go with Chandler, Curry or Brown. Gasol was not one of the favorites to be in the top 3. Kwame pretty much solidified himself as the Wizards favorite after dominating Chandler and Curry in individual work outs. His quickness was off the charts for a guy his size.
The Wizards wanted to draft down to #4 (or even later) and pick Kwame. However, that was not an option since they found out that the Hawks were a lock to take Kwame if he was available at #3 (Chandler was a lock at #2 since the Clips/Bulls had a trade in the making for awhile). Since Kwame was gone and their #2 choice Curry was gone, the Hawks chose to make a trade with Vancouver/Memphis. The Wizards did not want to take wing players or guards. A Big man was the only options at least for the Wizards.
The 2001 draft ended up to be a draft where there was a ton of NBA talent all throughout the 2 rounds. Many players are still in the NBA after 10 years to this day..even Brian Scalabrine. Of the 28 1st rounders, only 10 are out of the NBA with a few of those 10 playing overseas at a high level.
The 2001 draft was just a strange draft. The college players available were not players who would become superstars. There was no clear cut legitimate players like Yao, Lebron/Carmello, Dwight Howard, Bogut, Chris Paul, Derrick Rose, even Bargnani was a clear cut #1 a few weeks before the draft.
In todays world, obviously the high school players would not have been available. I believe Gasol or Eddie Griffin or gasp Darius Miles (drafted out of high school the year before) would have been the #1 pick for the Wizards.
I think we have to face the fact we're now a bad team...we might play better when TT comes back...but we're still a bad team...and when you trade one of your two best players and don't replace them with equal talent that's usually what you get...a bad team...
I can say to those who wanted a "rebuild"...they're going to get it...but as Scottley has pointed out...we need to be patient...we're now at the mercy of draft picks, what ever money the FO can cobble together, and FAs...this is going to take more than a minute or two...
Marvel
03-03-2011, 03:22 PM
40 point smackdown...don't worry Lakers, Portland (GO CRASH) up next.
ohara831
03-03-2011, 04:12 PM
If you cannot see any of the positives from the trade, but stretch to find only the negatives, then it is simply because you don't want to see the positives. And that is sad. Sure we took a step back. But it was to have a much brighter future. That future may be a year away, but we are going to get there. And it will be with or without all the current Bobcat fans. The group that has been here the past few years are great. But it completely baffles me when posters I know who are passionate and can make intelligent arguments sound more like trolls than fans.
spectre
03-03-2011, 04:17 PM
If you cannot see any of the positives from the trade, but stretch to find only the negatives, then it is simply because you don't want to see the positives. And that is sad. Sure we took a step back. But it was to have a much brighter future. That future may be a year away, but we are going to get there. And it will be with or without all the current Bobcat fans. The group that has been here the past few years are great. But it completely baffles me when posters I know who are passionate and can make intelligent arguments sound more like trolls than fans.
It seems to me you have it reversed. The negatives are easy to see. To find positives you have to base it on hope that the FO can do the totally opposite of what they've done up to this point...and with a lot less to work with.
IMO that "may be a year away" is more like 2 to 3 years away...and that's if everything goes in our favor. What are the odds of that?
jdub28
03-03-2011, 05:30 PM
I don't think MJ is going into this with a plan relying on the draft. An owner with as many connections as him is probably already conditioning Dwight Howard and Chris Paul.
My least favorite part of the whole trade is the position the players are in. The front office is obviously rebuilding while simultaneously hoping for "continued success". We all know they would rather have a good pick in this year's draft. I know what the front office means when they say we don't want to be the 7th and 8th seed, but it's confusing when the players are out there fighting for those spots.
If last night (against the Nuggets) was any indication of how this group plans to fight for a playoff spot then we have no chance...they looked worse than a patch-work college team...
I liked the rotations Paul used trying to find something that would work...but our starters have to step it up...but we looked as bad as any "bad" team in the league last night...and I know it was just one game...but that was epically pathetic...
SWedd523
03-03-2011, 08:07 PM
If you cannot see any of the positives from the trade, but stretch to find only the negatives, then it is simply because you don't want to see the positives. And that is sad. Sure we took a step back. But it was to have a much brighter future. That future may be a year away, but we are going to get there. And it will be with or without all the current Bobcat fans. The group that has been here the past few years are great. But it completely baffles me when posters I know who are passionate and can make intelligent arguments sound more like trolls than fans.
The best part about your post is that your first statement is that people searching for negatives need to "stretch to find them" but then right after that, LIST A NEGATIVE! :biggrin:
I understand that there seems to be a black and white culture with this team but what you and the majority of the other "supporters of the trade" need to realize is that there is more than one way to rebuild. Ask CatNation about the Knicks.
I've had to repeat myself too many times that this trade was a shitty way to rebuild. Is it rebuilding? Yes. Am I glad we're doing it by trading Crash? Yes. Did we get a solid return? You bet. But, did we go about it in the entirely wrong way? Hell yes.
You and everyone else knows the value of cap space in the impending CBA talks. And while we saved $10mil in salary for next year, we sacrificed the ability to save even more by attaching one of our bad contracts to Crash (regardless of the picks coming our way). Crash is due $22mil over the next two years if he picks up his option. However, Diop is due $15mil over the next two years, Hammer is due $7.5 and Najera and Diaw are a combined $12 next year.
Would it not have been prudent for a rebuilding franchise to add even Najera's or Diaw's contract to the deal and sacrifice one of those picks? Of course it would. Now that we traded our best piece, we're effectively stuck with all of those players until they expire. That's what people like me, spectre, and some others are trying to explain. It's not "wahh wahh we traded Crash!", it's "wahh wahh, you're doing it wrong!"
This deal is an ass backwards way to rebuild. MJ wanted to save money on the bottom line and he knew the easiest and quickest way to do it was to trade Crash because there was a market for him. The picks were necessary to the deal because we got only expirings and no talent in return.
Those same picks are why people are willing to give the benefit of the doubt to the FO for this rebuilding mess when this "rebuild" is nothing but an excuse to save money in the here and now because we won't have the assets to rebuild this franchise until those bad contracts expire. The picks will be nice, yes, but we won't be able to use them with anything until at least two years from now. There's good rebuilding, bad rebuilding, and for us (as is fitting for everything about this franchise) MEDIOCRE rebuilding.
ohara831
03-03-2011, 08:35 PM
SWedd, I did not mean to imply that one has to stretch to find a negative. There were both good and bad facets to this trade. My point was that there are people who seem to refuse to accept that there were good parts to this trade, and only want to accept the bad parts. And I have seen posts throughout where people are flat out stretching to no end to find something else bad to say.
It was not a perfect deal, but it seems to be the absolute best we were going to get. I read over multiple team fan sites on RGM and other places whenever we were linked to them as a trade involving Crash. Far and away, most NBA fans felt Crash was way over-rated and that the Bobcats were acting as if he walked on water. And over the past several months, whenever people here discussed trading Crash, even the ones who do think he walked on water would say "only if we can get a couple 1sts out of it". Well, we did. And some expirings to go along. It was a very fair return.
What I think is making this such a divisive issue is that we were only 1 game out of the 8th spot and we were playing fairly good ball at the time of the trade. It is aggravating to know we simply sent off one of our best players in a deal which clearly makes us weaker for the remainder of this season, when we were only 1 game out. I agree with those who feel the FO simply gave up on the season way too soon. But I also understand the thinking of the FO. This team was at best an 8th seed this season. But by making this trade and freeing up money over the next 1-2 years along with the picks we got, that after the 2013 season we should have a very solid group of players and a truckload of Cap Space in which to sign a big time FA. Not just a good player, but a MAX player who is a difference maker. Someone who can make this team a Top Contender for a Championship, not merely for an 8th seed. And this trade gave us just such an opportunity.
SWedd523
03-03-2011, 08:45 PM
The one pick away thing is honestly what irks me the most, and what REALLY makes it obvious that this is about money more so than rebuilding. After we dumped LB and were however many games out of the race, if we really wanted to rebuild, we would have blown it up then to assure we get a higher draft pick. But we waited until literally minutes before the deadline, and "started the rebuild" while being one game out of the playoffs? How does that make any sense at all? Waiting until the deadline added another year to our rebuild. One more year that we miss out on a highest level player.
The Hornets pick that we got may very well become valuable if it lands in the lottery. The Portland pick (as it stands) is just about useless other than for trading purposes. I'm not saying what we got wasn't a fair trade, just that the Crash trade was 70% saving money and 30% rebuilding. There were other avenues we could have explored that would have proven more fruitful had we taken them.
I support the (general) direction of rebuilding, I just won't be fooled into thinking this deal was the best we could get in regards to the effort.
JGib23
03-03-2011, 09:07 PM
I wasn't stretching, just another popped out to me after the beat down last night. Was really frustrated after watching the whole game.
I agree that it was/ is time to rebuild but, also agree that it was so important to couple one of the bad contracts with crash as well. (hopefully the next CBA will have a hard cap, or at least a 1 time amnesty clause where we can cut, the worst 1 or 2 contacts without a cap hit...Diop & Carrol)
Sorry for starting a negative thread but, it was hard to see any silver lining last night.
ohara831
03-03-2011, 09:12 PM
But wasn't it being reported for a month leading up to the trade deadline that we were shopping Crash, Jax and Diaw? It was a weekly thing being reported on ESPN, HoopHype, HoopsWorld and all the other sites. I dont think for a minute that this was a last minute thing. I think the FO had been trying to do something, and that this was in fact the very best offer we had. Now, if facts come out later that are proven that we had a couple offers that every Bobcat fan would agree was much better than what went down, then I would say emphatically that the FO blew it by holding out too long bluffing and then got stuck having to take the best available offer. Or, if it is proven that there was a much better offer that all Bobcat fans would have jumped on that did not involve expirings and picks, but rather was for proven talent which would have most certainly made us a better team THIS year, then I will feel a good bit more disappointed. But in all honesty, I just dont think that was the case. I think they had offers, and people were lowballing thinking that MJ would be more interested in saving money. And I think he help out long enough that Portland finally caved and gave up a good deal of expirings to go with the 2 1rst round picks.
One reason I think MJ didn't start the rebuild as soon as he fired LB is because he wanted to see how much was LB and how much was the team, and also because at that point, Hendo couldn't be counted on. No players (not on draft day or any other) will be moved until after a new CBA is signed, so this deadline was the last chance for player movement. MJ waited as long as he could, hoping (for his bottom line) that keeping Crash until the deadline might get the 'Cats into the playoffs AND get him into a rebuild. He may still get that. And, teams are more desperate at the deadline than in December. I doubt we could've gotten two first rounders after LB got fired. Crash built his value back up and then MJ struck while he could.
ohara831
03-03-2011, 09:17 PM
And the reason I dont think we added any bad contracts onto the Crash trade is that they will be gone after the 2012-2013 season and that gives MJ the Cap Space to go get that MAX Contract FA after the 2012-2013 season. He wants those as expirings. At least that is what I think.
^^^^With the CBA issue adding a "bad contract" is much more difficult...lucky for us they end in a "reasonable" time frame...
...and I had the distinct impression Paul was brought in to evaluate the players as much as anything...MJ was only hearing LBs voice and it (as we all know) shifted daily concerning the players...
mrfargo
03-04-2011, 10:43 AM
look, I may not post very often on here, but I am and always will be a bobcats (whatever name jordan may change it too) fan. I still have the pennant from the inagurial season. I do not understand why everyone is trashing the team. So what if we rebuild in 2-3 years. So what if we loose out. True fans will stay fans. Posers will move on to another team and pull for them.
Plowright
03-04-2011, 06:17 PM
http://www.bobcatsbreak.com/?p=4000
new article on gw by me! :)
Boomer
03-04-2011, 11:40 PM
I don't think MJ is going into this with a plan relying on the draft. An owner with as many connections as him is probably already conditioning Dwight Howard and Chris Paul.
My least favorite part of the whole trade is the position the players are in. The front office is obviously rebuilding while simultaneously hoping for "continued success". We all know they would rather have a good pick in this year's draft. I know what the front office means when they say we don't want to be the 7th and 8th seed, but it's confusing when the players are out there fighting for those spots.
No chance Dwight or CP3 come here via free agency, its a pipe dream.
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