Clearing Cap

[LB4President]

I can see what MJ is thinking with the Gerald Wallace trade, but what I don't understand is why we only cleared alittle cap space. We are still in bad drafting position and bad playoff position if we make it. Specifically I was thinking why didn't we also trade jax (as much as I love him) for Caron Butler's expiring deal as well? Then we would actually have enough cap space to sign a franchise player or absorb a large contract in a trade. Seriously what are we going to do with 10 million in cap space, the number 10 pick, and the number 17 pick (or whatever the NO pick turns out to be). I'm not trying to be a hater but I think we are stuck in this position again next year. Maybe MJ is betting it all on 2012 free agent class or maybe we have some more house cleaning to be done this summer, but I don't see how the GW trade shook things up as drastically as need be. Thoughts?

PS Been gone a while. Good to be back

[JGib23]

My guess is he didn't want to totally alienate the fan base. While the Crash trade was unpopular we at least got 2 first rounders for him and cleared playing time for Henderson. So I think all in all you can at least rationalize that decision but, to trade Jack with no one in the background to develop in those minutes and no 1 st rounders coming back- that could,t be explained as anything other than a bad move.

Another things Jack and Crash were both best when playing at the 3... It's hard to justify spending that much money to 2 players who are both suited best to play the same position. My guess is that Crash had the higher trade value and that's why it was him out the door instead of Jack.

[SWedd523]

All I know is that Jack and Diaw better be on their way out this summer.

[TheBeagle]

All I know is that Jack and Diaw better be on their way out this summer. This is gospel.

[Chef]

i wouldn't be shocked if use at least one of the picks to move either jax for a really good return (better than just an expiring) or hopefully diop. but i do agree, if clearing room is mj's primary focus, more deals will be done before June 30.

[BigMike]

All I know is that Jack and Diaw better be on their way out this summer.

Package some of those picks we got and ship them OUT, I would love to see both of them gone and us have 40 mill to throw around in free agency.

[Demon DeaCat]

I don't think there was any urgency to clear cap space for this year necessarily. There aren't any FA this year worth a long term investment IMO. I think we were thinking more long term, like 2012 and freeing ourselves of GW's contract, coupled with the other deals that will have expired by then will give us the cap space we need to pursue the bigger FAs at that time.

[BigMike]

I don't think there was any urgency to clear cap space for this year necessarily. There aren't any FA this year worth a long term investment IMO. I think we were thinking more long term, like 2012 and freeing ourselves of GW's contract, coupled with the other deals that will have expired by then will give us the cap space we need to pursue the bigger FAs at that time.

Hmmm i thought a few of the guys in 2012 were this off season.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?page=FreeAgents-11-12

[frontpager]

no players are worth it this offseason. Might as well use the draft picks and get good young players who are cheap. Someone will take jax for a second round pick, or late first such as San Antonio or the Lakers.

[captaincrunk]

I actually don't mind keeping Jax until his contract runs out. It's only like 9 million a year, and someone has to get paid. He looks like he's got a game that will age well. He conserves energy and defends intelligently, making the moves that would be more efficient as opposed to just being wild and fast on D. On offense he relies more on control and strength. Plus, he seems like he's been all kinds of a good guy off the court, despite his techs on the court. I like Jack. If he is traded I won't cry about it or anything, but I'd prefer it if he stayed unless we got a decent offer. None of this 2nd round pick stuff.

[JGib23]

I actually don't mind keeping Jax until his contract runs out. It's only like 9 million a year, and someone has to get paid. He looks like he's got a game that will age well. He conserves energy and defends intelligently, making the moves that would be more efficient as opposed to just being wild and fast on D. On offense he relies more on control and strength. Plus, he seems like he's been all kinds of a good guy off the court, despite his techs on the court. I like Jack. If he is traded I won't cry about it or anything, but I'd prefer it if he stayed unless we got a decent offer. None of this 2nd round pick stuff.

Agree 100%.... Jack's game is not dependent on athleticism, so even though he is getting old in basketball terms, with the move to SF his game won't decline much over the next 2 seasons. It's important to land his replacement in this draft though to set us up for the future.....(Terrance Jones, Perry Jones, Harrison Barnes)

[Chef]

Agree 100%.... Jack's game is not dependent on athleticism, so even though he is getting old in basketball terms, with the move to SF his game won't decline much over the next 2 seasons. It's important to land his replacement in this draft though to set us up for the future.....(Terrance Jones, Perry Jones, Harrison Barnes)

this is assuming he doesn't get moody with being the lone vet on a rebuild. not sure he will want to be here. if that is the case better to deal him when he is behaving.

[captaincrunk]

this is assuming he doesn't get moody with being the lone vet on a rebuild. not sure he will want to be here. if that is the case better to deal him when he is behaving.
We'd better deal Matt Carroll and Pryz too, in case they get moody with being the only two white guys. And we'll need to deal Tyrus, because he's not the only guy on the team with a 39 inch plus vertical :/

Henderson will certainly want out. Isn't he the only player from Duke?

Well lookathat, I can spout nonsense too. You're making baseless assumptions that can have dangerous consequences to the team.

[Chef]

We'd better deal Matt Carroll and Pryz too, in case they get moody with being the only two white guys. And we'll need to deal Tyrus, because he's not the only guy on the team with a 39 inch plus vertical :/

Henderson will certainly want out. Isn't he the only player from Duke?

Well lookathat, I can spout nonsense too. You're making baseless assumptions that can have dangerous consequences to the team.

maybe you are forgetting the career history of stephen jackson being a great guy to have around if you are winning and moving toward a championship and quite a distraction if you are not. i am not spouting nonsense at all. your completely non-sensical hypotheticals are though. my point was we may want to think very carefully about keeping jack here if we go the complete rebuild route if he doesn't want to go through it with us.

and your last statement is just inane. the assumption i made was based on jack's history. the back half of the statement is great though. the thought that my (or any one else on here) assumptions can have any effect on the team much less dangerous consequences is great. i am sure jordan, rod, silas and all the players check in daily to read our thoughts so that they can make the right decisions on how to run this team. god forbid, they happen to stumble on that last post of mine and if jack reads it and gets any ideas it is all over for the bobcats.

keep up the good work captain of the crunk now that you have blessed us dangerous assumption making foolish fans with your posts of genius this team can finally right the ship.

[dnbman]

Well lookathat, I can spout nonsense too. You're making baseless assumptions that can have dangerous consequences to the team.

I'm a Stephen Jackson supporter, but he does have a history of whining, providing basis for the assertion.

[captaincrunk]

maybe you are forgetting the career history of stephen jackson being a great guy to have around if you are winning and moving toward a championship
And maybe you are creating a self fulfilling prophecy by creating a sense of expectation of such events occurring.


and quite a distraction if you are not. i am not spouting nonsense at all. your completely non-sensical hypotheticals are though.
Duh they're nonsense, I straight up said they were. That was the damn point!


my point was we may want to think very carefully about keeping jack here if we go the complete rebuild route if he doesn't want to go through it with us.
Which is unsubstantiated bullshit. Nonsense.


and your last statement is just inane. the assumption i made was based on jack's history. the back half of the statement is great though. the thought that my (or any one else on here) assumptions can have any effect on the team much less dangerous consequences is great. i am sure jordan, rod, silas and all the players check in daily to read our thoughts so that they can make the right decisions on how to run this team. god forbid, they happen to stumble on that last post of mine and if jack reads it and gets any ideas it is all over for the bobcats.
It's the attitude. You're promoting it. Reporters are already buying in to it, asking Jack when he's gonna leave, if he's cool with this. He's saying all the right things, but you and those like you will still pester him and make him feel unwanted.


keep up the good work captain of the crunk now that you have blessed us dangerous assumption making foolish fans with your posts of genius this team can finally right the ship.
Oooooh you're so goddamn cool. Man, how I wish I could be a douchebag!

[captaincrunk]

I'm a Stephen Jackson supporter, but he does have a history of whining, providing basis for the assertion.
A weak basis at best. No two situations are ever the same in this league. There are far too many variables. The one thing we could do to see what Jack thinks of the situation? Ask him. And he's clear that he wants to help the young guys and try for the playoffs this year.

[Chef]

Oooooh you're so goddamn cool. Man, how I wish I could be a douchebag!

bobcatsplanet: where wishes do come true

[dnbman]

No two situations are ever the same in this league. There are far too many variables.

While true, there are players' primary motivations. Jackson seems to be the type of guy who wants to be part of a team fighting every night for a playoff spot. That's why he and his teammates endeared themselves to each other so quickly last year, despite us not being a contender when he was traded: he saw that our guys went to war.

However, I'm a little suspect too about how Jackson will handle things if we do into a clear rebuild mode with little hope for the playoffs. Granted, I don't think we or the media should pester the guy either, for the reasons you mentioned, but that doesn't make the question irrelevant.

[captaincrunk]

bobcatsplanet: where wishes do come true
Chef: Resorts to insults and a bad attitude when he knows he's got nothing worth saying.

[Chef]

And maybe you are creating a self fulfilling prophecy by creating a sense of expectation of such events occurring.



i am not creating anything. stephen jackson could care less what i or any of us write on this site. i like jack and think he is really good player when he doesn't fall into one of his lapses where his bbiq drops into the single digits and by all accounts he is an A+ teammate. but, he did become an absolute nightmare in golden state when he decided he didn't want to be there anymore. all i was saying was if i were the bobcats front office, i would sit down and spell out the plan so that i could ask him straight up does he want to go through it with us or would he rather be dealt to a more veteran team if a deal could be found.

[dnbman]

The vets on this board take pride in the fact that we don't get into the immature name calling. Let's all relax a bit.

[Chef]

Chef: Resorts to insults and a bad attitude when he knows he's got nothing worth saying.

nice try

10char

[dnbman]

all i was saying was if i were the bobcats front office, i would sit down and spell out the plan so that i could ask him straight up does he want to go through it with us or would he rather be dealt to a more veteran team if a deal could be found.

Yes. They absolutely need to do that. If not now, certainly at the end of the season.

[captaincrunk]

While true, there are players' primary motivations. Jackson seems to be the type of guy who wants to be part of a team fighting every night for a playoff spot. That's why he and his teammates endeared themselves to each other so quickly last year, despite us not being a contender when he was traded: he saw that our guys went to war.

However, I'm a little suspect too about how Jackson will handle things if we do into a clear rebuild mode with little hope for the playoffs. Granted, I don't think we or the media should pester the guy either, for the reasons you mentioned, but that doesn't make the question irrelevant.
Think about this though. We were 9/19 under Larry Brown. I don't think that with the current team (healthy, though) we'll do that bad next year. The team had clearly regressed talent and wins wise from last year. He never demanded a trade. The team had no real hopes until Silas came and showed up what DJ and Hendo can do, and Oakley showed us that even aging mediocre bigs can learn a new trick or two.

Wallace was his friend, but he hadn't been helping us win many games this year. I'm sure Jack resents the trade, but this situation isn't quite the same. He can't just go to Portland to chill with GDub. Anywhere he could go would probably not be much better. He seems genuinely interested in the Charlotte area. Yeah, I think he's more likely to flip out and bail than Kwame is or something, but I still don't think it's gonna happen. There's no actual evidence of this. Just fear and sports-superstition.

[captaincrunk]

Yes. They absolutely need to do that. If not now, certainly at the end of the season.
Then do that. Don't freak out and trade him thinking he's going to go apeshit on Silas and check out. Especially after than Magic game he had.

EDIT:


nice try

10char
What the balls does that even mean?

[dnbman]

There's no actual evidence of this. Just fear and sports-superstition.

Other than a quote from Jackson, which wouldn't necessarily be true, what other evidence can you really have but past track record?

We also don't know what the situation was behind closed doors. I think there plenty of rumblings about people being unhappy earlier in the season, but some players seem to feel that Brown was holding them back. I can see Jax sticking through that, hoping a new coach fixes the situation. I can even see him being content this season with us in the hunt. However, we'd be foolish to not plan ahead with Jackson if we're going to continue to make trades to clear cap space and add youth, especially if we continue to sink in the rankings.

[Chef]

Think about this though. We were 9/19 under Larry Brown. I don't think that with the current team (healthy, though) we'll do that bad next year. The team had clearly regressed talent and wins wise from last year. He never demanded a trade. The team had no real hopes until Silas came and showed up what DJ and Hendo can do, and Oakley showed us that even aging mediocre bigs can learn a new trick or two.

Wallace was his friend, but he hadn't been helping us win many games this year. I'm sure Jack resents the trade, but this situation isn't quite the same. He can't just go to Portland to chill with GDub. Anywhere he could go would probably not be much better. He seems genuinely interested in the Charlotte area. Yeah, I think he's more likely to flip out and bail than Kwame is or something, but I still don't think it's gonna happen. There's no actual evidence of this. Just fear and sports-superstition.

i agree with all of this and you are right jax is saying all the right things right now but (depending on what happens rebuild wise) if he is the only vet a struggling 8-25 team in early December will he be singing the same tune. i am just saying we should make damn sure before we just assume his contract of 8-9 mil for the next 2 years is truly worth keeping around because it could be the difference in cap room come 2012 (if that is the plan).

[captaincrunk]

I typed like two paragraphs, and then accidentally went "back". Damn...

You guys clearly agree with me. So I'm done.

[SWedd523]

Let's cool those jets, Sparky.


I know things over on RGM are handled a bit different, but we try and keep things as civil as possible around here. Certainly no need for all of the profanity.

[teej]

Certainly no need for all of the profanity.

Man, fuck that noise.

Just kidding. Bitch.

[Toocool]

I heard that when you rile Teej enough, every second word is a swear word. I also heard that Teej is able to shoot laser beams out of his eyes! :o
I also heard that if you rile Ziggy enough, he becomes the Hulk, albiet a dark version.:o

As for me...you won't like me when I'm angry. It's almost like I'm bipolar when I'm angry :o

Captaincrunch, can't play nice, I suggest you go go back into whatever hole you crawled from.

[teej]

I heard that when you rile Teej enough, every second word is a swear word.

This is true. As my youth pastor and boss will both attest.


I also heard that Teej is able to shoot laser beams out of his eyes! :o

No, but those under my wrath wish it was just laser beams.


I also heard that if you rile Ziggy enough, he becomes the Hulk, albiet a dark version.:o

It is impossible for anyone to rile Zig. He's the ultimate peacemaker.

[ziggy]

It is impossible for anyone to rile Zig. He's the ultimate peacemaker.

Somehow I think that is my lot in life. I break up fights between my kids every day so its just second nature by now.

Hey Crunk,
We are glad to have you here, I'm sure that RGM's loss is BCP's gain.
We have a history here of vigorously debating the post but not attacking or insulting the person that posted it. As long we can all live by that rule the forum remains a cool and civil place.

And Crunk to prove to you that I'm a swell guy, here is a pic of college girls in knee socks

http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/5771/89808132.jpg

[GoBobs]

Diaw expires before 2012 so he doesn't matter. Jack to Dallas should have worked for both teams. Maybe the FO thought we would get better return in the summer if Jack can drag us to the playoffs. I think trading DJ before we have to pay him a decent contract is important for maintaining our cap space until we will be able to use it.

Not opposed to waiting for S Curry to use it on either as long as we don't have to overpay to much.

[Woodsy23]

Wow Ziggy, i've been gone for too long.

Back to the subject at Hand, when i first heard about the trade, what we'd received in return i was pretty gutted, but a few good displays from Hendo has made the pill a bit easier to take, with Jack, TT, Hendo and if DJ can get ballin' again aswell and if we can somehow scrape a a play off position i'd be fairly happy considering we were a 7th/8th seed with Wallace, if we get a 7th/8th seed AND have cleared cap space putting us in a fairly strong position over the off season with Draft Picks and space i'd say it had been a pretty succesful season. Lots of Ifs and Buts though.

[ziggy]

Woodsy23! Glad to see you back

[dnbman]

here is a pic of college girls in knee socks

http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/5771/89808132.jpg


Ziggy, I haven't been able to focus on the rest of the internet since you posted this. I think that is my ideal vision of woman.

[Chef]

Ziggy, I haven't been able to focus on the rest of the internet since you posted this. I think that is my ideal vision of woman.

the blonde gets the attention of the photo but the one on the side is where the gold is.

[dnbman]

the blonde gets the attention of the photo but the one on the side is where the gold is.

Nah. Too skinny for the ideal form. (Very cute, none the less.)

What are we supposed to be discussing on this forum?

[dnbman]

Alas! I knew it was too good to be true:

http://adsx5.com/adpics/4d6337871f60574b40f629ca6.jpg

[captaincrunk]

Let's cool those jets, Sparky.


I know things over on RGM are handled a bit different, but we try and keep things as civil as possible around here. Certainly no need for all of the profanity.
I honestly thought it was the opposite. People have profanity in their usernames here haha. I just assumed it was cool.

[teej]

I honestly thought it was the opposite. People have profanity in their usernames here haha. I just assumed it was cool.

It is. No censors here, just don't be hateful to other members.

[Let's Go Cats 218]

This is gospel.

You are RETARDED. Diaw, I can see going...and I wouldn't be upset. But to get rid of Jack would be idiotic. Do you want to lose EVERY game?

[dnbman]

You are RETARDED. Diaw, I can see going...and I wouldn't be upset. But to get rid of Jack would be idiotic. Do you want to lose EVERY game?

What Beagle and many other rationally minded, mature folks think is that Jackson might not be the ideal candidate to lead a youth movement. He's great if you have guys like Wallace, Felton, and Nazr to provide stability. However, I don't think he's the type of guy that would be happy or especially successful trying to be keep a young crew focused and playing high level ball.

[BobCatsFanInTx]

Nah. Too skinny for the ideal form. (Very cute, none the less.)

What are we supposed to be discussing on this forum?The blond has a nice athletic hour glass figure. Her face is nice and the body is just about the typical idea of perfection. Even though I do like me some voluptuous Amazon babes with the curvy bodies.

[ziggy]

Alas! I knew it was too good to be true:

http://adsx5.com/adpics/4d6337871f60574b40f629ca6.jpg

Ugh, I hate it when I'm duped by photoshop

[Let's Go Cats 218]

What Beagle and many other rationally minded, mature folks think is that Jackson might not be the ideal candidate to lead a youth movement. He's great if you have guys like Wallace, Felton, and Nazr to provide stability. However, I don't think he's the type of guy that would be happy or especially successful trying to be keep a young crew focused and playing high level ball.

You can call it a youth movement if you'd like... but this organization is NOT good at evaluating young talent and drafting.

[BobCatsFanInTx]

You are RETARDED. Diaw, I can see going...and I wouldn't be upset. But to get rid of Jack would be idiotic. Do you want to lose EVERY game?Have you read any of the post on this thread? Name calling and the such is not necessary. If you cannot contribute to the forum in a mature and decent manor please find another forum to express your immature take on subjects? I am not perfect and have on one occasion during a game expressed my disapproval of a differing opinion with CaptainCrunk but I was being immature in doing so. There really is no place for that kind of attitude and as adults we should be able to act as such.

[Let's Go Cats 218]

Have you read any of the post on this thread? Name calling and the such is not necessary. If you cannot contribute to the forum in a mature and decent manor please find another forum to express your immature take on subjects? I am not perfect and have on one occasion during a game expressed my disapproval of a differing opinion with CaptainCrunk but I was being immature in doing so. There really is no place for that kind of attitude and as adults we should be able to act as such.

Yes, I have read every post... and what I see is a bunch of folks trying to rationalize every stupid decision Michael Jordan makes. Folks, he was a terrible executive in Washington, and it doesn't look like he's improved at all.

I apologize for name-calling, but this was such an emotional trade for me. I have been a season-ticket holder for 4 years now and the reason I became one was Gerald Wallace. I have never seen a player sacrafice so much to stay and help HIS team make the playoffs. But now, in the name of saving money and calling it a "youth movement" we have dismantled a promising team, and set the organization back YEARS. What on Earth makes you believe we're going to draft well? So what if we got 2 first rounders for Gerald? We are going to end up with 2 more Ajincas...and for what? Only our best player, face of the franchise, and most beloved athlete in Charlotte in YEARS. I'm still steamed about it, and my Bobcats are one stupid decision (letting Jack go) from collapsing completely.

[TheBeagle]

Ugh, I hate it when I'm duped by photoshop I knew that waist was too good to be true. However, the hottie on the left stands the test of photoshop in all her curvyness. Mrrrrowww!!!

Back OT:

Last night, MT came up to talk to me about how I'm handling the situation, and I calmly let him know I'm pretty pissed. Being the standup dude he is, he totally understood, and explained that the market for Jack was nonexistent. Moves could've been made with him, but nothing that would benefit the team in terms of gaining good picks or expirings. In order to make a move to build for the future, especially with the CBA expiration looming on the horizon, GW was the only choice because he was the only player with any real market value, however reluctant the organization was to see him traded. I guess I knew all this stuff before, but it helps lessen the "vitriol" when it comes from a Bobcats official who's always done right by us.

Whether it comes to pass or not, all the moves made thus far including firing Larry and hiring Paul to showcase DJ are for the FO gunning hard for free agency '12. There's a certain PG we've been interested in and still are, and the thinking is we can create enough cap space, combined with accumulated picks to bring him in as well as a buddy. May be far-fetched, but like MT says, you won't know if you won't try, and this organization has never actively tried the free agency route due to cap space.

It's still difficult to really get behind this new team, and I cringe thinking of Jack being the "face" of the franchise right now (and I won't lie that I wasn't a Blazers fan last night and pissed when Jack caught fire in the 4th) but I don't think it'll be too long before I come around. Hell, like MT said, Gerald will be playing significant minutes in significant games in late April and May for the first time in his life; so he's in a better place. Eventually maybe even we will be too.

[Let's Go Cats 218]

Hard to believe the market for Jack is non-existent... he's a matchup nightmare! But I suppose MT knows what he's talking about, being on the inside. Still hurts to see GW in a Blazers uniform...

GET CP3... make it happen MJ!

[SWedd523]

Not really that hard to believe. He's a inefficient scorer with a long/big contract that runs him until he's in his mid 30s that has a reputation as being a bad guy.

[LiquidWayno]

Just calling it now. Whenever we trade jack I call the title "Say Goodnight to the Bad Guy" for a blog post/rant.

[Chef]

Not really that hard to believe. He's a inefficient scorer with a long/big contract that runs him until he's in his mid 30s that has a reputation as being a bad guy.

completely obvious why other teams don't want him. you have said it above. however, i think dallas should have jumped on him. their window is closing and him at 3 would be pretty good.

i have decided after the past 2 seasons and last night's leading the ovation of crash, jax's rep as a bad guy is pretty unwarranted. i think he made some past mistakes but for the past several years it seems he has grown up a bit. he is still a very volatile player and i am not sure i would keep him around for a rebuild, but he is not a bad guy. he is a guy you go to war with for sure.

[SWedd523]

If they didn't offer something based around Caron then they're stupid. If they DID offer something like that, then I have no idea why we would've turned it down.

[teej]

If they didn't offer something based around Caron then they're stupid. If they DID offer something like that, then I have no idea why we would've turned it down.

Judging from MT's comments, and a few other people I know, Dallas didn't offer Caron.

Why, I have no idea.

[Chef]

Judging from MT's comments, and a few other people I know, Dallas didn't offer Caron.

Why, I have no idea.

i heard a podcast (either ryen rusillo or seiko smith can't remember for sure) with the dallas gm on it. he said they took plenty of phone calls with caron and/or roddy buckets and turned them all away easily. i think we were the closest but wanted the pick or jones with him. the gm said they want to resign caron over the summer.

[teej]

Aaaand that's why Dallas won't win a ring. They'll have another nice 50-win season next year, but they don't understand you have to lose a trade long-term to win short-term.

[TheBeagle]

Judging from MT's comments, and a few other people I know, Dallas didn't offer Caron.

Why, I have no idea. Absolutely. 'Cause we'd've taken that deal.


And chef, I agree; Jack has been a massively standup dude as a citizen and offcourt representative of the team. Like I said elsewhere a couple months back, the irony is I really like him as a human being, but can't stand him as a player, which is the complete opposite of what I thought when he was first acquired.