View Full Version : Here's an idea !
TattoodCats4life
03-16-2011, 04:27 PM
http://consumerist.com/2011/03/disappointed-cincinnati-bengals-season-ticket-owners-send-bill-to-team-owners.html
Good read.
If I were a STH I would probably do the same here.
Mustachio
03-16-2011, 06:54 PM
Yeah because if you were owner, you would love to lose money on an 8th seed team. who doesn't love needlessly losing money?
TattoodCats4life
03-16-2011, 11:04 PM
Well, I just feel that there were better options out there than trading wallace, the Nazr trade didn't make any financial sense (expiring for non expiring when you're trying to save money, really?). I know we would have been a 7th/8th seed team this year, no question, but I had hope that with a good pick in this year's draft (or a nice prearranged trade deal, trading some expirings etc) that we'd be able to add a piece of two to get maybe lets say 5th/6th seed, maybe pull an upset (that's what wallace always made our team capable of...upsetting the team that thought they'd win).
Post this trade our team couldn't compete with most the teams in the NCAA tourney, yet "we're pushing for the playoffs"
NBA as with almost other professional sports is pay up or shut up. What other owner is out there cutting costs the way Jordan is, because if there is another one out there then maybe I'd believe there is some reason for it, but Jordan still hasn't come forward to outline a plan of action to us, the paying fans, the ones who line his pockets (or at least today keep them from being more empty than they would be if we didn't care).
Fred Williamson
03-17-2011, 01:11 AM
I agree with eveything. This season has written "fail" all over it and I blame our front office and owner for this mess. No one in this FO knows how to run a team.
Dcarnys
03-17-2011, 02:23 AM
I hated to see Crash go just as much as the next guy and I still want to see him in a Bobcats uniform. The fact of the matter is he's not here anymore and we have what we have. Would you be opposed to the trade had we held onto Larry Brown?? If Silas didn't turn it around?? If we got a worse contract in return but a better player?? Honestly I like our position, maybe not this year but this only means we have some firepower to go into the future not to mention a coaching staff that knows how to mold younger players and players on the struggle (Hendo anyone?? If I told you Kwame Brown would be the best Center on this team at the beginning of the year how crazy would I be??) I'm not happy with the FO and I was one to overreact at first but this trade isn't the end of the world for us. Look at the Knicks and how much they gave up for Carmelo, the Nets for D-Will. Imagine the team thinner then it is now. It might not be good but this team has shown flashes of brilliance and can compete.
The thing that burns me the most is that they RAISED my season ticket prices by 20%! Yeah that makes a lot of sense. We take on no big contracts or players, cut payroll, put a WORSE product on the floor, and increase season ticket prices for Season ticket holders.
That is not how you run a business and defies logic. That is what pisses me off the most. Season ticket holder since day 1, but not after this season.
Mustachio
03-17-2011, 09:19 AM
The thing that burns me the most is that they RAISED my season ticket prices by 20%! Yeah that makes a lot of sense. We take on no big contracts or players, cut payroll, put a WORSE product on the floor, and increase season ticket prices for Season ticket holders.
That is not how you run a business and defies logic. That is what pisses me off the most. Season ticket holder since day 1, but not after this season.
I'm not sure where you sit or who your ticket rep is. But my seats didn't increase a dime and they gave me several different payment options they havent done before. I'm curious as to whether or not you renewed before your price expired.
don't blame the ownership for not wanting to lose money. i would do it the same way. i do blame the nba for picking jordan (with relatively limited money) over the greek billionaire. jordan is the sexy pick but ultimately you need an owner who is so rich that this is basically a real life fantasy team for them.
Scottley Crue
03-17-2011, 10:54 AM
Mine increased as well, but I do get free parking and now the $10 food credit per game. Those two things make it very much worth it to me for the increase (16%). That increase is an extra $5 per game, and though I don't buy concessions every game, I buy enough to where what I average makes that concession credit worthwhile. And I feel like the team is putting itself in a position to get better, so to me, this all evens out. Obviously, it's your money so do with it as you please, but I believe some good things are coming. Imagine if you were a Knicks STH...you do get Ama're and Carmelo, but you get to pay an average of 49% more next year to do that.
The prices that I was given were the "STH discount" nothing has expired yet. the free parking and concessions stand discount is not worth it to me, but I do appreciate everyone opinion. this is just me ranting, not towards anyone on here. I currently get the free parking so really the increase is ridiculous and the only benefit is the concession stands.
I know what you are saying about the Knicks and an increase of 49% is crazy, but at least you can see why. They took on Melo and Amare and know they are going places. This is the first year where I actually had to think about renenwing tickets. The past years was a no brainer-the team is getting better, we have promise for next year, we have a clear direction. This year I dont feel that at all. We dont really know what we are doing except want to trim payroll and get picks etc. I also have very little faith that those picks turn into something significant. As a fan or STH, that doesnt make you want to invest your money into this.
captaincrunk
03-17-2011, 01:55 PM
About how much do season tickets cost anyway?
cltblkhscoach
03-18-2011, 12:20 PM
The cheapest package is $344 for the upper level corners and baseline. I've got that plan over the 10 month payment plan, so it costs me roughly $35 a month which is insanely low for season tickets. I get about 9-10 upgrades a year to either the suites or nice lower level mid-court seats, so I don't mind sitting up high the majority of the time where I can be loud and not get strange looks, lol.
BIGCatBobcat
03-22-2011, 01:03 PM
don't blame the ownership for not wanting to lose money. i would do it the same way. i do blame the nba for picking jordan (with relatively limited money) over the greek billionaire. jordan is the sexy pick but ultimately you need an owner who is so rich that this is basically a real life fantasy team for them.
WHAT?! Greek Billionaire? George Postolos is/was the head of an investment group that buys teams. He was president of the Rockets for years, got them to where they are/were when Yao was healthy and he was making an offer to Johnson, Johnson said "MJ you want it?" MJ said "Yeah I do, gimme some time" Bob said "Ok you have til April 1 or whenever it was." April 1 rolls around and Bob was like "MJ, I'm gonna sell to George unless you want it." MJ swooped in and took on the DEBT that Johnson had accrued and basically swapped titles with him.
NBA has to sign off yeah, but they don't pick the owners except in expansion situations. Y'all and your revisionist history of this team. Hell it's only been 7-8 years since they announced they were bringing the NBA back to Charlotte, how can y'all be so wrong, so fed up and so pissed about where we are and how we got here?
WHAT?! Greek Billionaire? George Postolos is/was the head of an investment group that buys teams. He was president of the Rockets for years, got them to where they are/were when Yao was healthy and he was making an offer to Johnson, Johnson said "MJ you want it?" MJ said "Yeah I do, gimme some time" Bob said "Ok you have til April 1 or whenever it was." April 1 rolls around and Bob was like "MJ, I'm gonna sell to George unless you want it." MJ swooped in and took on the DEBT that Johnson had accrued and basically swapped titles with him.
NBA has to sign off yeah, but they don't pick the owners except in expansion situations. Y'all and your revisionist history of this team. Hell it's only been 7-8 years since they announced they were bringing the NBA back to Charlotte, how can y'all be so wrong, so fed up and so pissed about where we are and how we got here?
ok so i was a little off on postolos's history but still not the main point.
and stern and nba has final approval of all ownership changes. so yes, he could have said enough with the "just rich enough owners, especially in charlotte. richest guy gets it."
BIGCatBobcat
03-22-2011, 03:10 PM
ok so i was a little off on postolos's history but still not the main point.
and stern and nba has final approval of all ownership changes. so yes, he could have said enough with the "just rich enough owners, especially in charlotte. richest guy gets it."
Richest guy? I was looking at the team vaulations not too long ago. I figured that MJ might just be the poorest owner in the league. I mean, he's got cash but not Paul Allen or Prokrov sort of bank accounts. There are so few and minute in scope mistakes that this team has made in its short history. Getting worn out with the complaints.
Richest guy? I was looking at the team vaulations not too long ago. I figured that MJ might just be the poorest owner in the league. I mean, he's got cash but not Paul Allen or Prokrov sort of bank accounts. There are so few and minute in scope mistakes that this team has made in its short history. Getting worn out with the complaints.
not sure i get the meaning. i think we agree that an owner with much deeper pockets than jordan would have better for us?
BIGCatBobcat
03-22-2011, 03:36 PM
You don't get to choose! It's a moot point. Michael Jeffery Jordan is the owner and chairman of the Bobcats. That's not going to change unless he dies, sells or the team folds. He's doing great. The value of the team is up, the sponsorships are up, the season tickets and luxury box renewals are up. The wins will take a dip this year. His only mistakes are draft picks, coaches (Sam in the first place and bringing LB back this year) and maybe some of these throw-in guys on trades. I'd venture to say that no one drafts well on a consistent basis (OKC has had 3 drafts that have gone extremely well and they've been extremely lucky, probably same with San Antonio. He's not cheap, he's just not going to pay the luxury tax on players when all we're going to get is 8th, 7th in the East and bounced from the playoffs. He's sharp, but the missteps are easy to call up and it's easy to complain about that rather than looking at the position the Bobcats are in.
You don't get to choose! It's a moot point. Michael Jeffery Jordan is the owner and chairman of the Bobcats. That's not going to change unless he dies, sells or the team folds. He's doing great. The value of the team is up, the sponsorships are up, the season tickets and luxury box renewals are up. The wins will take a dip this year. His only mistakes are draft picks, coaches (Sam in the first place and bringing LB back this year) and maybe some of these throw-in guys on trades. I'd venture to say that no one drafts well on a consistent basis (OKC has had 3 drafts that have gone extremely well and they've been extremely lucky, probably same with San Antonio. He's not cheap, he's just not going to pay the luxury tax on players when all we're going to get is 8th, 7th in the East and bounced from the playoffs. He's sharp, but the missteps are easy to call up and it's easy to complain about that rather than looking at the position the Bobcats are in.
i get your point and agree with it. but everything here is a moot point because none of this matters. none of this factors into any decisions the FO makes or how the players play. until the basketball that is being played is worthy of discussion there just really isn't much to talk about with the bobcats right now.
now if you want to talk basketball, the fourth quarter of the celts/knicks was an excellent example of a championship team taking control of the game in the fourth quarter. not only that, the refs let them them play and it was thourghly enjoyable game to watch. i can't wait for the bobcats to play with that level of talent.
BIGCatBobcat
03-22-2011, 04:58 PM
i get your point and agree with it. but everything here is a moot point because none of this matters. none of this factors into any decisions the FO makes or how the players play. until the basketball that is being played is worthy of discussion there just really isn't much to talk about with the bobcats right now.
now if you want to talk basketball, the fourth quarter of the celts/knicks was an excellent example of a championship team taking control of the game in the fourth quarter. not only that, the refs let them them play and it was thourghly enjoyable game to watch. i can't wait for the bobcats to play with that level of talent.
So you want the Bobcats to be mediocre for 18 years (east finals in 88 then didn't make it out of the 2nd round for a few years and half the 18 years, didn't make the playoffs), then get 2 players on the downside of their careers, desparate to make an impact and hope for the best out of them while mortgaging their future and once they retire (3-4 years) or they can't sign one or all 3 (after next year), rebuild all over again? Thin years and then lightning in a bottle...that's Boston Basketball from the 90s until now.
So you want the Bobcats to be mediocre for 18 years (east finals in 88 then didn't make it out of the 2nd round for a few years and half the 18 years, didn't make the playoffs), then get 2 players on the downside of their careers, desparate to make an impact and hope for the best out of them while mortgaging their future and once they retire (3-4 years) or they can't sign one or all 3 (after next year), rebuild all over again? Thin years and then lightning in a bottle...that's Boston Basketball from the 90s until now.
1. considering we have made the playoffs exactly once and got swept, yes i would take the other option
2. you forgot to mention deaths to two potential franchise guys in the late 80's early 90's which extended that mediocrity for a decade.
I don't think any of us (STHs) should blame MJ for not wanting to lose money...I blame them for being a joke at running the team/franchise so far...
spectre
03-23-2011, 04:16 PM
I don't think any of us (STHs) should blame MJ for not wanting to lose money...I blame them for being a joke at running the team/franchise so far...
Just a short 7 years ago we came into the league under the best scenario of any other team...ever. We were given the 4th pick in the upcoming draft (shame it wasn't the year before...but I digress). Only 3 years until we were allowed full cap. An X draft where only we were picking.
It's borderline criminal where we're at now.
rsxnova
03-23-2011, 05:46 PM
Just a short 7 years ago we came into the league under the best scenario of any other team...ever. We were given the 4th pick in the upcoming draft (shame it wasn't the year before...but I digress). Only 3 years until we were allowed full cap. An X draft where only we were picking.
It's borderline criminal where we're at now.
Well maybe the worst is behind us. Right?
spectre
03-23-2011, 07:32 PM
Well maybe the worst is behind us. Right?
If you look at it from the point that we have only had full cap since year 3 and we started giving away assets just 3 years later...and all overseen by the same guy no less...I'm just not that confident.
But one can hope.
If you look at it from the point that we have only had full cap since year 3 and we started giving away assets just 3 years later...and all overseen by the same guy no less...I'm just not that confident.
If you look at what happened from MJ onward, it's not THAT bad. J-Rich trade was made because Bob (rightly) expected playoffs. As BRNC and others have pointed out, hiring Larry meant giving him control of personnel, and that's what's screwed things up. MJ is responsible for trading for J-Rich (long run not great, but more than understandable) hiring Sam (inexcusable), signing Varejao to an offer sheet (smart), trading for Naz (not great, but understandable for the same reason as J-Rich), then nothing major again until drafting Hendo/Brown (so far so good with Hendo, took a chance on Brown and missed), signing Liv (no way that was an LB move, he hated Liv, and so far so good), firing Larry (smart), trading Gerald (long run smart) and trading Naz (long run smart).
It's spotty, but he's not as bad as you make it seem.
spectre
03-24-2011, 05:32 AM
If you look at what happened from MJ onward, it's not THAT bad. J-Rich trade was made because Bob (rightly) expected playoffs. As BRNC and others have pointed out, hiring Larry meant giving him control of personnel, and that's what's screwed things up. MJ is responsible for trading for J-Rich (long run not great, but more than understandable) hiring Sam (inexcusable), signing Varejao to an offer sheet (smart), trading for Naz (not great, but understandable for the same reason as J-Rich), then nothing major again until drafting Hendo/Brown (so far so good with Hendo, took a chance on Brown and missed), signing Liv (no way that was an LB move, he hated Liv, and so far so good), firing Larry (smart), trading Gerald (long run smart) and trading Naz (long run smart).
It's spotty, but he's not as bad as you make it seem.
Under Jordan's watch we went from one of the lowest salaries in the league to the cap situation we're in today...and it only took around 3 years.
True or untrue?
It is what it is. You don't want to blame Jordan for the stretch LB was here...but MJ wanted that title "Head of Basketball Operations" so HE gets the responsibility for what happened under his watch. Besides, you're "suggesting" that MJ grudgingly gave in to the moves made since LB...and I don't believe that for a minute.
Jordan wanted Mek gone, so you can't ignore that he needed another big (Gana). Jordan also signed Carroll to that contract when no one else would have.
Not to mention...it wasn't LB who was overpaying in all those trades.
Mustachio
03-24-2011, 08:57 AM
Yawn. I get so tired of hearing how many mistakes the Bobcats have made and how terrible they are at drafting. It's all just 20/20 hindsight. It is such a small window to look at and declare a team is bad. We have only been around 7 years guys, the Celtics went twice as long as that without one playoff game. 16 seasons ... are they a terrible franchise? This shit aint easy for anyone (cept the Lakers maybe) but especially so for a small market expansion team for christ sakes. It's crazy how many unemployed GM's are out there, and that they have enough time to post on message boards.
spectre
03-24-2011, 02:22 PM
Yawn. I get so tired of hearing how many mistakes the Bobcats have made and how terrible they are at drafting. It's all just 20/20 hindsight. It is such a small window to look at and declare a team is bad. We have only been around 7 years guys, the Celtics went twice as long as that without one playoff game. 16 seasons ... are they a terrible franchise? This shit aint easy for anyone (cept the Lakers maybe) but especially so for a small market expansion team for christ sakes. It's crazy how many unemployed GM's are out there, and that they have enough time to post on message boards.
Uh, some of us have bitched repeatedly thru all these missteps (how long have I had that lollipop avatar?)...so the 20/20 comment is BS. The "small window" is actually much smaller...like 3 years, or ever since we brought in MJ to be "Head of Basketball Operations". Going from one of the best positions financially to one where the owner feels like he has to give up assets just to keep afloat is pretty amazing don't you think?
What other teams have had the advantages we had and yet screwed it up so quickly? None.
If you're really so tired of it then maybe you should ignore the thread where it's being discussed?
Just a thought.
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