Tough to get excited

[Ghost Kat]

Like most other posters on this site I love my Bobcats. But I'm finding it really tough to get pumped up about this upcoming season. There are to many question marks about the line up. The draft is terrible this year. Right now we don't have a playoff or even an exciting team. Capt. Jack isn't going to lead us anywhere. We still have no low post big men. No back up's for SG or SF. Silas might be back next year but what happens after that? I'm sorry but I don't see anything going on that makes me want to wath the Cats this year.

[ziggy]

Another thing that makes it tough to get excited is that we are coming off of a season that was very uninspiring. We had unwatchable basketball under LB, a bunch injuries then the trade of a fan favorite. I think this past season sucked the spirit out of a lot of the fans.

[ammofan]

Well it's too early to begin thinking about next year really. Wait until at least after the draft. We really don't even know who will be ont he team. Who says we don't pull off a CP3 trade this summer? You just never know....

[frontpager]

nothing looks exciting this season with an NBA lockout looming. Post-draft will tell us if we will be excited. We have potential to be a great draft, however i never trust our organization when it comes to drafting.

[CrazyCarl139]

The excitement should come from Jordan and Higgins having a plan in place to make us competitive in the next few years. If we can see the foundation of the plan being built, through the draft and by not making any stupid free agent signings and by hopefully dealing SJax, Diaw, Diop, maybe Carroll...then we can start getting excited about this team having a plan for the future for the first time in a long time.

[ammofan]

The excitement should come from Jordan and Higgins having a plan in place to make us competitive in the next few years. If we can see the foundation of the plan being built, through the draft and by not making any stupid free agent signings and by hopefully dealing SJax, Diaw, Diop, maybe Carroll...then we can start getting excited about this team having a plan for the future for the first time in a long time.

Exactly....the last half of this season and all of next year will be the rebuilding stages where we get our foundation. Much like NYK....

Then in 2012 we go after our franchise guy.

[teej]

We just better not wind up with the equivilant of Amar'e and Melo...

[BIGCatBobcat]

The excitement should come from Jordan and Higgins having a plan in place to make us competitive in the next few years. If we can see the foundation of the plan being built, through the draft and by not making any stupid free agent signings and by hopefully dealing SJax, Diaw, Diop, maybe Carroll...then we can start getting excited about this team having a plan for the future for the first time in a long time.

Sounds like you don't think "Own Tomorrow" is a plan...hmm.

[BobCatsFanInTx]

Like most other posters on this site I love my Bobcats. But I'm finding it really tough to get pumped up about this upcoming season. There are to many question marks about the line up. The draft is terrible this year. Right now we don't have a playoff or even an exciting team. Capt. Jack isn't going to lead us anywhere. We still have no low post big men. No back up's for SG or SF. Silas might be back next year but what happens after that? I'm sorry but I don't see anything going on that makes me want to wath the Cats this year.(The draft is terrible this year.) You should say that the draft seems terrible this year. For most of these players we won't know for at least three seasons. I think the draft will surprise more than a few people but none of us knows squat yet.

[Chef]

The excitement should come from Jordan and Higgins having a plan in place to make us competitive in the next few years. If we can see the foundation of the plan being built, through the draft and by not making any stupid free agent signings and by hopefully dealing SJax, Diaw, Diop, maybe Carroll...then we can start getting excited about this team having a plan for the future for the first time in a long time.

not picking on you carl but this is about the fourth or fifth time i have seen someone talk about our foundation. we have no foundation. a foundation is a budding superstar or a very solid core in need of a superstar. we have neither. we have a bunch of role players. not one of our starters outside of jax would start for any other team in the league outside of the four worst teams. i absolutely agree with the first two posts of this thread and unless jordan and company have some moves planned, we are in for dark times i suspect.

[Toocool]

Completely understand where you're coming from CK. Especially since I have to wake up pretty damn early to watch Bobcats games I found myself seriously lacking in that area. Only reason why I kept watching was probably to see Hendo and DJ continue to develop.

Call me naive, but I think we could have an exciting year in terms of prospects if we draft well.

[Proudiddy]

Another thing that makes it tough to get excited is that we are coming off of a season that was very uninspiring. We had unwatchable basketball under LB, a bunch injuries then the trade of a fan favorite. I think this past season sucked the spirit out of a lot of the fans.

I think this sums it up well Zig. I'm always gonna be a home-team guy, so I'm always gonna be Bobcats unless they sh*t on us and leave like the Hornets, b/c then they're no longer the "home-team." That being said, that's very unlikely, at least for the next 25 years, and I don't see MJ leaving.

BUT, this is extremely depressing and I agree with Kat's assessment, but you provide all of the reasons things are the way they are right now for our fan base. It sucks, and it's hard to get excited about anything. The GW trade seemed to put it over the top for a lot of people. Probably one of the most depressing moments of my Bobcats fandom ever was reading Beagle's post towards the end of last year giving away all of his remaining tickets for the season and talking about how he wouldn't really be around anymore.

That hurts man. And Beagle is one of the coolest posters we've had here and was always there for a fellow Bobcats fan. He was the type of guy you just expect to always be here, so to see him lose faith was really disconcerting. It just kind of showed how deep the fan base had been cut by the ineptitude and mishandling of personnel by this front office. It just kind of shocked me into realizing how bad things have been.

It's been hard to be a Bobcats fan, but I look at it as though I have no choice. Sure, there's always gonna be players I pull for across the league, but this is MY team. But from the beginning, we've had flawed management and front office people, and it feels like we spend much of our time shooting ourselves in the foot, put a band-aid on it, then shoot ourselves in the other foot. It just feels like we can't ever get a step ahead because we're always turned around trying to fix the missteps behind us.

So, it's kind of like watching a track meet, and all the other teams are guys like Usain Bolt, and we're that guy who had one leg and a prosthetic that tried to get approval to run in the race. Our concern is getting IN the race, while everyone else is concerned with winning it.

When I look at it like this, it makes me actually get slightly excited about drafting a guy like Alec Burks, lol. This draft is weak, but I think it's gonna be a lot better than people think, just not as many HUGE gets at the top like in the past... I think there's gonna be some surprise with picks developed from mid-late 1st.

[BRNC]

I'm excited about the draft Kat...I know I tend to be very optimistic most of the time...but I feel really good about this one...

I know there are questions about the line up...but it seems almost every year that's the case...I just hope MJ will step back and let Rod and the scouts handle this draft...then I'll get a clear read on how many years (LOL) I need to stay depressed about the 'Cats...

[JayTeeBeeTee]

not picking on you carl but this is about the fourth or fifth time i have seen someone talk about our foundation. we have no foundation. a foundation is a budding superstar or a very solid core in need of a superstar. we have neither. we have a bunch of role players. not one of our starters outside of jax would start for any other team in the league outside of the four worst teams. i absolutely agree with the first two posts of this thread and unless jordan and company have some moves planned, we are in for dark times i suspect.

I think Hendo could be a superstar, he flourished when given the opportunity by Silas. Remember how bad he looked when playing under LB? Also if you've read any of my post, then you know that I'm in man love with Tyrus Thomas and think that with these two plus DJ we do have a great young core. Get a couple of exciting players in the draft (Alec Burks +1), then I think the 2012 Cats could be fun to watch and they could compete for a playoff spot.

[Chef]

I think Hendo could be a superstar, he flourished when given the opportunity by Silas. Remember how bad he looked when playing under LB? Also if you've read any of my post, then you know that I'm in man love with Tyrus Thomas and think that with these two plus DJ we do have a great young core. Get a couple of exciting players in the draft (Alec Burks +1), then I think the 2012 Cats could be fun to watch and they could compete for a playoff spot.

agree to disagree.

[ND22]

When every position needs upgrading, it is hard to get excited. The optimist in me continues to come out however. Let's see how the draft goes, and if we are active in free agency.

[CrazyCarl139]

Chef, you're right, there is no foundation. We can't build anything around Augustin, Hendo and Thomas. Those should be our first 3 off the bench, at best.

But, I'm optimistic, I think this draft and this offseason is going to START our foundation. We may not add a superstar, but we can add core guys. We can get our Jason Terry, Shawn Marion, JJ Barea type players. And we can clear space to make a run at a top FA like Chris Paul. We gotta start somewhere.

[Chef]

Chef, you're right, there is no foundation. We can't build anything around Augustin, Hendo and Thomas. Those should be our first 3 off the bench, at best.

But, I'm optimistic, I think this draft and this offseason is going to START our foundation. We may not add a superstar, but we can add core guys. We can get our Jason Terry, Shawn Marion, JJ Barea type players. And we can clear space to make a run at a top FA like Chris Paul. We gotta start somewhere.

this sounds about right to me

[BRNC]

Pretty much my sentiments also...we really don't have much to build from at this point...but the FO is back at the "starters" gate and we either get better...or become totally irrelevant....

[Scottley Crue]

Well, here's something to be encouraged, if not excited, about. I really like the commitment shown by players and staff here.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=ap-bobcats-campcanceled

[ND22]

Well, here's something to be encouraged, if not excited, about. I really like the commitment shown by players and staff here.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=ap-bobcats-campcanceled

Encouraging the guys are trying to as much as they can before the lockout, especially Jackson. Despite what has happened here Jackson still appears very motivated. A stark contrast to the guy who packed it in at Golden State when they went into rebuild mode.

[Plowright]

I will sacrifice last and this season to compete at the highest level to be honest, we have to remember we can't rebuild overnight.

Also the draft isn't bad this year for us. It's not a good draft for those teams that sucked and were the worst 5 or 6 teams as they wont pick and players that will instantly turn them around. But 9, 19 and 39 the talent is decent for those later picks, better than avaerage some think:

This draft seems to be weak at the top, but has decent depth towards the end of the first round. Do you see any second round PGs flourishing in the league (i.e. Nolan Smith, Darius Morris)?
Chad Ford (1:59 PM)



For sure. I think people misunderstand the criticism of the draft. The top two picks are really good ... but they aren't superstar caliber. The next 10 players in the draft are typcially the sorts of players you get in the late lottery to mid first round. But after that, the draft is really loaded into the mid to late first round. Teams picking 8-40 will be happy with the talent available

[polarcat]

I can see where Kat is coming from. It seems like this team has been living a Groundhog Day kind of existence since inception. Constant picks in the 8-13 range ofthe draft, no superstar or franchise players outside of Wallace, and no true "franchise guy" on the horizon. I do think our team has solid starters for the future in Thomas, Hendo an maybe DJ, though he might end up being a better 6th man spark plug combo guard....I don't know. I agree this draft could net us another Henderson-type young athletic player. He might not be Durant or Rose, but I don't think there is one of those in this draft, but who knows. After we shipped out Wallace and missed the playlets, I've decided to be patient and look towards 2012 and beyond. I hope we can pull off a trade that gets us a young player (Curry, Jennings, CP3, Gay) and then add a few starters in this draft, and lastly, go big the summer of 2012 with a true bonafide draft pick because that class looks stacked. I hope Diaw, Jax and one of the ugly contracts comes off the books by this year's deadline and we figure out if DJ is the answer or not.

[spectre]

How in the hell can anyone NOT be depressed? We've been in the league less than 8 years, started out better than any other expansion team and we're already going thru a rebuild?

I don't think ANY team has screwed up such a great situation so badly and so fast.

Trading Crash was that final nail for me (final as in entering full depression). I'm still here and I'm still pulling for them...but my drive in the past in seeing the glass as "half full" is pretty much gone in regards to this team.

Teams that are pointed at as an example of successfully rebuilding do it with high picks...but we're doing it with 8th thru 20th picks.

I think you'd be crazy if you're not depressed.

[adam187]

Yeah, but Stephen Jackson is less fat.

[Marvel]

How in the hell can anyone NOT be depressed? We've been in the league less than 8 years, started out better than any other expansion team and we're already going thru a rebuild?

I don't think ANY team has screwed up such a great situation so badly and so fast.

Trading Crash was that final nail for me (final as in entering full depression). I'm still here and I'm still pulling for them...but my drive in the past in seeing the glass as "half full" is pretty much gone in regards to this team.

Teams that are pointed at as an example of successfully rebuilding do it with high picks...but we're doing it with 8th thru 20th picks.

I think you'd be crazy if you're not depressed.

Same here. This franchise needs a change at the top. Till MJ opens his eyes and realises this, nothing will change.

[teej]

MJ isn't responsible for Bernie + BJ fucking things up for three years. And yes, he screwed up with Vincent, but admitted his mistake relatively quickly. He did what was at the time the right thing with LB, and then had to accept LB's stipulations (draft control, trades, etc). You can't look at the changes he's made to the business side in a little over a year and say he doesn't know what he's doing. Every single personnel move they made after the start of the season was the right one.

[BRNC]

I've gotten over the blame-game since there is plenty to go around...but agree with spectre...trading "Crash" pretty much did it for me...I'm taking a break from any form of season tickets...

I want the franchise to do well...but I want the organization that is currently in place to show me that is the intent...so I'm still pulling but as I said earlier this draft will give me an idea of how long I have to be depressed about the team....

[ND22]

I think something that gets overshadowed by the team's lack of success are the connections MJ is making with the city now.

Remember this JA Adande article?
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=adande_ja&page=SmallMarkets-110407-Bobcats

I'm not saying MJ isn't to blame for everything, because he's made a few mistakes that we are paying for now, but the fact remains that Bob Johnson put us in so deep a hole with the team and its connections with the city that we are still attempting to climb out. There is still a dark cloud looming over the team from the Hornets move, and a lot of people still either love, hate, or don't care about the Bobcats. I believe MJ has all the intent of getting us out of that hole, but many of us wonder if he will, and there in lies why any of us can get excited about the future.

[spectre]

So long as he sticks with a direction. Up til last summer we were all about winning (to bring in fans). After he becomes majority owner that goes to the scrap heap and now we're "rebuilding to make a contender".

You can't help but wonder if his wallet being the majority money source didn't influence that thinking. He certainly had no problems spending Bob's money (and in Bob's defense he let him).

Either way, I do think Jordan is doing the "kiss Charlotte's ass" part very well. Thing is can he deliver the product he's promising. IMO his eye for talent is off/on. Rumors off the top of my head had him hot for guys like Darko & Crittendon...but he's also been hot for guys like Durant, Roy & Westbrook. I don't blame the Ammo pick on him (all Bernie)...so I'm willing to wait and see what he can do.

I still firmly believe however that standing pat with mid 1sts ain't gonna do it. He has to make some noise.

[ND22]

I still firmly believe however that standing pat with mid 1sts ain't gonna do it. He has to make some noise.

By making noise you mean trading up? I agree, because we always seem to end up in that area and we get good players but not great ones. I just don't see who would trade with us.

[spectre]

Yeah, either that or move the picks for a young prospect.

I think Toronto is a possibility for one. Colangelo supposedly has 2 years to turn that ship around so he might be looking to make some moves. The Kings could probably use DJ...maybe him + 19th for 7th? Talk to the Cav's about the 4th pick? Minny and that 2nd overall?

I dunno. I haven't been focusing a lot on other teams' needs. To this line of thinking's credit MJ does love to gamble, and we know he's tried to move heaven and earth to get his guy. Remember he offered Crash AND the 9th for the 4th pick(think that's right) trying to get Westbrook...which at the time I thought was SEVERELY overpaying.

Of course today I wish like hell he'd have been able to pull that one off.

[ND22]

Yeah, either that or move the picks for a young prospect.

I think Toronto is a possibility for one. Colangelo supposedly has 2 years to turn that ship around so he might be looking to make some moves. The Kings could probably use DJ...maybe him + 19th for 7th? Talk to the Cav's about the 4th pick? Minny and that 2nd overall?

I dunno. I haven't been focusing a lot on other teams' needs. To this line of thinking's credit MJ does love to gamble, and we know he's tried to move heaven and earth to get his guy. Remember he offered Crash AND the 9th for the 4th pick(think that's right) trying to get Westbrook...which at the time I thought was SEVERELY overpaying.

Of course today I wish like hell he'd have been able to pull that one off.

Had no idea we tried for Westbrook. We will see, I like the idea of moving DJ to the Kings, seems where Walker would fall, and we would still have the 9th. Minny seems to not like the 2nd pick so we could possibly pull something there, but the Cavs want to move up not back so the 4th pick seems off limits. No doubt MJ and Rod will be busy this next month, hopefully they pull something off.

[BobCatsFanInTx]

Whatever anyone thinks about this draft I will go out on a limb and say that I think this draft will pleasantly surprise a lot of teams and fans. Time will tell though.

[BIGCatBobcat]

If I might take the conversation in another direction, thinking of the whole premise of the Adande column, are we just in the small market boat? Are fans in Utah, New Orleans, Minnesota, Denver, Indiana all thinking some variation of the same thing as us? Do executives and coaches and whatever look to NY, Boston, LA, Philly, Houston (even houston) before they'd look to smaller markets? I don't think the situation here is any different than Toronto, Cleveland, New Orleans, hell if OKC hadn't gotten lucky with all the guys they've had in the draft, not just a couple, every single pick has worked, they might be in the same situation. Just thinking, I don't know, I could be wrong.

[BlockParty]

Not sure this is on topic, but BigCatBobcat opened the flood gates. Quite possibly the most important thing that happens for the Bobcats this summer will not be the draft picks, any trades made or not made, or any free agent signings. The most important thing will be the changes made to the CBA. Something needs to be done to try to make the playing field/court more level with regards to small markets and big markets. The small markets can out vote the big markets and Stern would be smart to fall in line, after all, a competitive regular season in the NBA will make the NBA a lot more money than 10+ years of the same 6 big market teams making it into the conference finals every year. Unfortunately we probably won't get much of this information leaked out as it's a battle ground among the NBA owners who are currently trying to show a united front against the Players.

How that is accomplished is something that deserves another thread, but it could be very beneficial to the Bobcats, so our largest competition for a free agent is Indiana instead of Chicago or Boston.

[ND22]

The most important thing for us is to have attractive pieces on our team when the summer of 2012 hits. Then I think our chances of landing CP3 and/or Dwight Howard increases. We may not be the most competitive team this year but this offseason is important, we have to draft the right players.

[Marvel]

Whatever anyone thinks about this draft I will go out on a limb and say that I think this draft will pleasantly surprise a lot of teams and fans. Time will tell though.

See this is what i'm thinking. Sure this draft ain't no 2003, 96 draft, but if these scouts have done their homework they'd find a key, impact player with all star potential anywhere from mid to late 1st. And depending on who's done their homework or not, there definitely could be some sleepers with all star potential in the 2nd round.

The value of this draft is mostly based off perception though. The perception is, this draft has no elite/franchise players, 2 are considered to have that potential, but even that's still questionable. Add to that, some key prospects dropping out prior, these scouts have this "perception" that this draft is considerably weaker when it was already perceived to be weak before the top prospects withdrew.

I read somewhere on DX, that only 2 teams, the Hornets and Phoenix, had done their homework on scouting their prospects throughout the season and they weren't holding any workouts:








Teams like New Orleans, Phoenix have it right -- no workouts at all. Do you work doing the year watching actual basketball & you'll be fine.








From DraftExpress.com http://www.draftexpress.com/twitter.php#ixzz1OdRomFj9
http://www.draftexpress.com


Which at the end of the day, is all good though, because it increases our chances of drafting a star with our 9, 19th and 39th. BUt, who's to say our scouts have done their homework...

I just think that the GMs these days value the draft off hype and number of superstars in it. If the hype is big the draft is strong. If there are several to numerous superstars in it, the draft is perceived to be strong.Workouts should only be used to evaluate a prospects skill level, athleticism, intangibles only if you haven't seen them play. I mean that's what the scouts are for. They have access to NCAA games, watch them play and make your judgement off of that. A players true value should be based off playing in a real game, workouts are meaningless to me.

[Chef]

See this is what i'm thinking. Sure this draft ain't no 2003, 96 draft, but if these scouts have done their homework they'd find a key, impact player with all star potential anywhere from mid to late 1st. And depending on who's done their homework or not, there definitely could be some sleepers with all star potential in the 2nd round.

The value of this draft is mostly based off perception though. The perception is, this draft has no elite/franchise players, 2 are considered to have that potential, but even that's still questionable. Add to that, some key prospects dropping out prior, these scouts have this "perception" that this draft is considerably weaker when it was already perceived to be weak before the top prospects withdrew.

I read somewhere on DX, that only 2 teams, the Hornets and Phoenix, had done their homework on scouting their prospects throughout the season and they weren't holding any workouts:







Which at the end of the day, is all good though, because it increases our chances of drafting a star with our 9, 19th and 39th. BUt, who's to say our scouts have done their homework...

my thinking isn't that there are no decent players. i think there are several but there is also a lot of trash ie the twins, jimmer, jujuan johnson. the problem is WHERE these guys are getting drafted. a top ten pick costs alot of money over the three years and for the top 5 for the first extension. as a team you really want a solid starter out of these picks and much of the lotto is being talked at having a ceiling of decent starter. also, alot of the first rounders outside of the lotto are not projected to even be sure fire rotation guys and they are guaranteed money. hopefully, we do a good job of picking out the right guys.

[CrazyCarl139]

There's a zero percent chance of Dwight Howard coming to Charlotte. If he wants to play with Chris Paul, he will convince Paul to sign with Orlando, I promise you that. Dwight will resign with Orlando or go to New York, New Jersey or maybe LA.

Also, Stephen A. Smith said on 610 the Fan the other day that Charlotte has a zero percent chance of landing Paul because Chris wants to play with superstars. I disagree with Smith. I think Michael Jordan is a superstar still and if we do the right thing with this draft and show that we have some assets, Paul may sign in his home state. Do I think it's a long shot? Yes I do. But is it possible? Yes.