Real GM proposed trade: NOT REAL

[Chef]

i saw this on Real GM and thought it was interesting. the bobcat fans on the board were mixed. initially i would say "what did we do this time" but within 20 seconds of digesting i would be all over this. i wanted to get non-flaming rational opinions. what do you guys think?

Spurs trade:
1) Parker
for:
1) Fields
2) Diop
3) SJAX
4) #9

Knicks trade:
1) Billups
2) Fields
3) #17
for:
1) Parker

Bobcats trade:
1) SJAX
2) Diop
3) #9
for:
1) Billups
2) #17

WHY FOR THE SPURS?
1) They get a needed wing with size and scoringh ability in SJAX who has played with the Spurs before. They also get the 9th pick to draft someone like Jonas V., Biyombo, Leonard, etc. Fields is also a cheap good young wing who could be flipped if need be.

WHY FOR THE KNICKS?
1) They want to win now. Parker gives them a "big 3" to win now.

WHY FOR THE BOBCATS??
1) They shave SJAX and Diop's last year with Billups' expiring. Billups will probably be bought out to save more money. They drop from 9 to 17 to do the deal.

[spectre]

I'd do it. For those who want "flexibility" this does it.

Before the trade however it wouldn't hurt to see who falls to 9th.

IMO it sucks for the Spurs tho.

[Thomas Beck]

I'd do it. For those who want "flexibility" this does it.

Before the trade however it wouldn't hurt to see who falls to 9th.

IMO it sucks for the Spurs tho.

Definitely sux for the spurs but...sounds reasonable...Does the money work on this deal?

[TattoodCats4life]

I wouldn't cut billups. It'd be freaking awesome to have a vet like him (put the team on his back kind of guy) to show DJ and livingston a few more things, and be able to come in at 2 (mr big shot after all)... he'd probably not start, but get 25-30 minutes per game...and maybe we swap him to a contender at the deadline for whatever...plus it unloads Diop, which is priceless.

[GoBobs]

Parker is to old for us. I would sell the farm for Curry or Rondo or Westbrook but pass on Parker.

[spectre]

76ers and Bobcats...Tyrus, Mo Speights (http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1127047)


The Deal

Tyrus Thomas
for
Mo Speights and Andres Nocioni

The Why

Simply put... fit.

The 76ers are in need of a defensive/shot blocking big man. Say what you will about Sam Dalembert, the team clearly missed him on the defensive end this year with nobody to protect the basket. Tyrus Thomas provides the team with a freak athlete that can provide weakside shot blocking, as well as get out and run with the team.

The Bobcats could likely use a more offensively gifted player to pair with new draftee Bismack Biyombo. Given the chance to play consistent minutes with a defensive big next to him to make up for his faults, Speights could really thrive. He has his weaknesses, but one thing the guy definitely knows how to do is put the ball in the basket. He also could help open up the paint for Kemba Walker with his midrange game, as well as be a good pick and pop option.

The Financials

This is where the questions come for the Sixers and the added incentive is for the Bobcats.

Tyrus Thomas: 4 years, 33.3M

Mo Speights: 1 year, 2.7M (qualifying offer of 3.8M for 2012)
Andres Nocioni: 1 year, 6.7M (team option of 7.5M for 2012)

The 76ers shed about 2M off their cap for the upcoming season, but take on a large commitment. With that contract, they are taking on a decent sized risk that Tyrus will pan out and fit.

The Bobcats on the flip side are making more of a safe play here. Shedding a guy who likely won't fit while taking a flier on another young big man. Less upside, but less risk.

I kind of like it. Part of me really wants to see Tyrus & Smack together...but a bigger part of me is greatly concerned with that fat contract and whether he'll ever live up to it.

We still owe a first for the guy and we'd look doubly bad if he finally "got it", but maybe it is time to cut bait?

[SWedd523]

I had entered that thread with the intention to say no but I decided against it because the Sixers fans would get all butthurt.


Speights sucks now and hasn't done anything productive in over a year. While we'd save money, we'd be downgrading by a large margin

[spectre]

If he sucks what does that make the 4 yr/30 million dollar man?

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=speigma01&y1=2011&p2=thomaty01&y2=2011

I know Speights had a down year, but with the possibility that TT will never "get it" you can't discount the money savings and the possibility that Silas could still get something out of Speights. Even in that down season he still shot near 50% from the field and had a TS% of .53. Pairing him with Smack might be the right ingredient, but even if he isn't we get out of that terrible contract.

Something tells me that if we do decide to move Tyrus none of us are going to like the return regardless.

[Chef]

we could only be so lucky for that to be a real offer. even if neither sixer plays one minute, we come out on top.

[SWedd523]

Higher FG% sure, but is that worth it with fewer FT attempts, offensive and defensive rebounds, assists, steals, and blocks? Besides, if e's worth it then why did he only get 12 minutes a game for the Sixers? Sure Brand had a better season, but you'd imagine Speights would see more than 12 if he was worth it, no? It's not like Hawes is a world beater.

He's also due for a new contract and what's to say he won't expect something at least close to what Tyrus got (I still don't think he's that overpaid)? Career averages of 7 and 4 don't make me excited to give away our best young PF. Remember, Tyrus was putting up some pretty nice numbers to start the season.

[spectre]

Higher FG% sure, but is that worth it with fewer FT attempts, offensive and defensive rebounds, assists, steals, and blocks? Besides, if e's worth it then why did he only get 12 minutes a game for the Sixers? Sure Brand had a better season, but you'd imagine Speights would see more than 12 if he was worth it, no? It's not like Hawes is a world beater.

He's also due for a new contract and what's to say he won't expect something at least close to what Tyrus got (I still don't think he's that overpaid)? Career averages of 7 and 4 don't make me excited to give away our best young PF. Remember, Tyrus was putting up some pretty nice numbers to start the season.

That last line is why I'm torn on the whole idea of moving him. Thing is (and the guy Zig referenced who talked about young up and coming front courts) will he ever put it together?

All those points you made about Speights...and they're legit ones...was made about Tyrus before we traded for him. Bulls were cutting his minutes (when he wasn't injured) when they really needed him. In this idea however we're not giving up a 1st and instead are getting out of what could end up being a terrible deal with expirings. I think there's very few teams if any who'd actually do a similar deal to get Tyrus right now.

It all boils down to when and if we cut bait.


we could only be so lucky for that to be a real offer. even if neither sixer plays one minute, we come out on top.

I'm very worried that you could be absolutely right.

[spectre]

Forgot to add to the above about the down numbers in boards, etc.

I have no clue whether TT & Smack can work together. Will they get in each others way on D? Can Tyrus do enough on O to make up for Smack's shortcomings?

Say we made the above trade. As the OP opined...wouldn't you think Speights with his propensity to put the ball in the basket work better?

I absolutely agree that IF Tyrus can get it together (consistent O...less "DOH" moments, staying on the court throughout the season) he'd be a better pairing. Big damn IF tho.

[TheBeagle]

we could only be so lucky for that to be a real offer. even if neither sixer plays one minute, we come out on top. This is fact. 4 years at 33M left?!?!? Wow. It hurts every time I see in print how much we overpaid him.

[SWedd523]

I won't pretend to have seen much of Speights game to make an educated opinion on if he'd fit next to BB. But doesn't he get the majority of his points around the rim? If so, I don't think he'd be a good fit. The best thing for BB is a jump shooting big that hits the mid range shot with high consistency.

[spectre]

I won't pretend to have seen much of Speights game to make an educated opinion on if he'd fit next to BB. But doesn't he get the majority of his points around the rim? If so, I don't think he'd be a good fit. The best thing for BB is a jump shooting big that hits the mid range shot with high consistency.

I was going to look at NBA Hotspots...but I guess they took that down during the lockout?

The OP said:


Given the chance to play consistent minutes with a defensive big next to him to make up for his faults, Speights could really thrive. He has his weaknesses, but one thing the guy definitely knows how to do is put the ball in the basket. He also could help open up the paint for Kemba Walker with his midrange game, as well as be a good pick and pop option.

That led me to believe he had a mid game...but like you I've not seen a lot of him either.

Thanks to FS and not being able to get the Bobcats on LP anymore I don't see much of the other teams at all now. I'm only going to suffer the crap internet feeds for my team.

[SWedd523]

Just looked it up on hoopdata. Speights shot 40% from 10-15 (Tyrus shot 39%) and 42% from 16-23 (Tyrus shot 43%). So unless we're simply looking to dump salary, I don't see why it'd be worth it.

[spectre]

Just looked it up on hoopdata. Speights shot 40% from 10-15 (Tyrus shot 39%) and 42% from 16-23 (Tyrus shot 43%). So unless we're simply looking to dump salary, I don't see why it'd be worth it.

That would be the exact reason.

Those numbers do suggest he's stronger around the rim tho (which must be very good if he can shoot that % midrange but have an overall of 50%).