Anyone else thinking MJ is one of the GMs holding out?

[Plowright]

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/216230/Arison_To_Angry_Critic_On_Twitter_Youre_Barking_At _The_Wrong_Owner

This is just my opinion but i think most of the 2/3 of teams that are making money are happy with the players offer but teams like the Bucks, Kings US etc are probably the ones holding out for a deal

[SWedd523]

Of course he is.

There's been a split between the big market and small market owners for a long time now

[superb1]

If he is holding out I don't blame him. The owners from big markets and the players (most are from the big markets) are the ones so willing to make the deal. But groups are eyeing the lost of money whereas these small market teams have been losing for years.

[bozzy]

But I read that revenue sharing had already been agreed upon. So I'm not sure why it would be a small market vs big market issue anymore.

[spectre]

...because revenue sharing isn't enough to make up the difference.

Dr. Buss ain't giving up all that TV money he just signed for.

[Chef]

...because revenue sharing isn't enough to make up the difference.

Dr. Buss ain't giving up all that TV money he just signed for.

the smart owners know that over the next ten years more of the revenue will be found in tv deals, local tv deals, perhaps specialized networks (think Big Ten Network ie Lakers Network) and not so much in people going to the games. particularly if we are headed into a big time depression/recession like most economists with common sense think.

the most underreported aspect of this is the riff between the owners. if it was just the owners vs the players it would be resolved. the owners are not a unified front though.

[Plowright]

The first thing people cut back on in a recession is specialist TV Networks.

[Chef]

The first thing people cut back on in a recession is specialist TV Networks.

but, big ten and sec as well as nba tv networks are available on most cable providers for very little more than the basic package. at direct tv and time warner it is less than $5 per month. if you specialize like the yankees or knicks on YES than you are correct except for enhanced regional coverage.

[SWedd523]

Jordan isn't a GM by the way.....


TV contracts will be one of the last things cut back in this recession. TV deals are potentially much more valuable than gate sales because people are going to say, "Why pay to go to the game when I can just watch it at home for free!". With all the talk that the owners are going to split more revenue, the big earners have been busy restructuring their TV contracts to redirect more of a percentage into the own pockets. I know a big deal was made about the Celtics doing it, but I'm fairly certain the Lakers and a couple of others have been working on the same.

[Chef]

Jordan isn't a GM by the way.....


TV contracts will be one of the last things cut back in this recession. TV deals are potentially much more valuable than gate sales because people are going to say, "Why pay to go to the game when I can just watch it at home for free!". With all the talk that the owners are going to split more revenue, the big earners have been busy restructuring their TV contracts to redirect more of a percentage into the own pockets. I know a big deal was made about the Celtics doing it, but I'm fairly certain the Lakers and a couple of others have been working on the same.

this is exactly right. this is why there won't be a season. the owners like jordan are using this "lockout" as a way to lockout themselves out from the other big dog owners.

[spectre]

TV deals are potentially much more valuable than gate sales because people are going to say, "Why pay to go to the game when I can just watch it at home for free!".

If only.

I still maintain that there's plenty of revenue to be had if they'd just expand that damn circle to cover most/all of North and South Carolina.

[SWedd523]

Without a doubt.


Do you (or anyone else) have any info on our deal and when it runs out?

[bozzy]

If only.

I still maintain that there's plenty of revenue to be had if they'd just expand that damn circle to cover most/all of North and South Carolina.

It does cover most of the North and South Carolina. However, most providers aren't paying for the Bobcats on FSN so it really doesn't matter how big the circle is.

[spectre]

It covers us inside the 2nd circle...which by their rules requires a much higher premium from the providers than the full circle...which is why they won't pay it.

FS wants to charge them for EVERYONE, not just those who want it.

[May4prez]

Well, looks like its coming out that Jordan is one of 10-14 owners taking a hard line. Saying he will tank anything over 50%. This could get real ugly, real fast on Saturday.

[Plowright]

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/216322/Jordan_Leads_Hardline_Opposition_To_Giving_Players _More_Than_50_Percent SURPRISE!!!!

[SWedd523]

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/05/sports/basketball/hard-line-factions-threaten-latest-nba-negotiations.html?_r=1&ref=sports



The owners’ faction includes between 10 and 14 owners and is being led by Charlotte’s Michael Jordan, according to a person who has spoken with the owners. That group wanted the players’ share set no higher than 47 percent, and it was upset when league negotiators proposed a 50-50 split last month.

According to the person who spoke with the owners, Jordan’s faction intends to vote against the 50-50 deal, if negotiations get that far. Saturday’s owners meeting was arranged in part to address that concern.

A majority of the 29 owners are believed to support a 50-50 deal, but they are reluctant to move further.

[spectre]

Flashback to 1999:


Jordan engaged in a heated exchange with Wizards owner Abe Pollin.Jordan's showdown with Pollin and fellow Bull Steve Kerr's verbal battle with David Stern were the highlights of the 11/2-hour meeting, according to several players.

According to players, Pollin said about his fellow owners, "You just have to trust us."

Jordan fired back, saying, "You've got to trust our negotiators." Jordan also blasted owners for not bargaining in good faith in the offseason and said to Pollin, "If you can't make a profit, you should sell your team."
http://articles.nydailynews.com/1998-10-29/sports/18090869_1_abe-pollin-owners-wizards

Shades of Shinn part deux.

[SWedd523]

What are your personal thoughts on his stance now?

[May4prez]

Just saw on the twitter that he is not necessarily just taking a stand against the players, but also against the big market owners. In theory saying, "you want a deal, give us more revenue sharing."

[spectre]

Of course I haven't seen the books, but I do believe that he's losing his ass...probably the worst out of the 30 teams. Unlike the others however, I do know that some of those losses are based on his own stupidity (pro player argument), and some more is having to woo the market back after the Hornets' departure...which of course was made even worse by Top Bob.

I think he's going to far. From what I've read a 50/50 split with the system changes should allow the competent teams to at the least break even...probably net them a little profit. His positions smacks more of "I want a profit no matter how badly I screw up", and IMO that's way too far.

Which is why I think it warrants remembering his words from back in 1999.

[Chef]

Of course I haven't seen the books, but I do believe that he's losing his ass...probably the worst out of the 30 teams. Unlike the others however, I do know that some of those losses are based on his own stupidity (pro player argument), and some more is having to woo the market back after the Hornets' departure...which of course was made even worse by Top Bob.

I think he's going to far. From what I've read a 50/50 split with the system changes should allow the competent teams to at the least break even...probably net them a little profit. His positions smacks more of "I want a profit no matter how badly I screw up", and IMO that's way too far.

Which is why I think it warrants remembering his words from back in 1999.

what is crazy to me is that he is holding out for BRI % points as this news presents itself. he needs to be worried about revenue sharing. if i were king of this for a day a 50/50 split would be the number.

but, before ANY revenue sharing is agreed upon amongst the owners as far as tv etc goes, i would as a league go to the cable providers and tell them that there is now only one blackout radius. i would define the markets with each owner and make the provider show the team to the entire market or they can't show the nba period. if i were the lakers why would i be interested in sharing any tv revenue with a team like the bobcats who can't get 50% of their defined market coverage on all of the major regional and national providers in that market?

[spectre]

but, before ANY revenue sharing is agreed upon amongst the owners as far as tv etc goes, i would as a league go to the cable providers and tell them that there is now only one blackout radius. i would define the markets with each owner and make the provider show the team to the entire market or they can't show the nba period.

:rock:

Damn straight.

Thing is Chef, from the board's discussion in previous years it was determined that the NBA mandates those limits due to (get this) fear of over-saturation.

In our case....LOL!

[SWedd523]

I wonder if this 53% demand is a ploy in order to get the big market teams to change their tune and agree to higher revenue sharing?

[Chef]

:rock:

Damn straight.

Thing is Chef, from the board's discussion in previous years it was determined that the NBA mandates those limits due to (get this) fear of over-saturation.

In our case....LOL!

yup, the three counties that get the bobcats on all providers sure are saturated

[Sik Infant]

I for one am glad MJ is one of the owners holding out.

Our teams viability is tied up in how the BRI is divided & how the revenue sharing is provided.


MJ gets a lot of crap for his team running abilities but he's doen everything right so far & credit to him.