Interesting Amnesty Twist

[JGib23]

It appears that teams that are under the cap will have the chance to bid on amnesty cut players through a modified waiver system, the teams can bid on a portion of the players contract with the team that cut him responsible for the balance.

For example let's say the Hawks amnesty Marvin Williams, we can bid on his services, say for $3 million per year and if we are the high bidder, we get Marvin for $3m per season with the Hawks being responsible for the balance.

That makes things very interesting.

[docend24]

No, those 3M should be substracted what Hawks would owe him in this case. Still better system than the old one - no reason to investigate whether Dallas tried to persuade some team into waiveing someone using cash in the process. Getting portion of money (amoung of the higheest bid) back will motivate team using amnesty on somewhat useful players too i.e. Bobcats could be thinking not only about Diop but maybe about Maggette too. Thomas is out of question as with one amnesty clause use per year there is no hurry to decide on him (yet).

[JGib23]

No, those 3M should be substracted what Hawks would owe him in this case. Still better system than the old one - no reason to investigate whether Dallas tried to persuade some team into waiveing someone using cash in the process. Getting portion of money (amoung of the higheest bid) back will motivate team using amnesty on somewhat useful players too i.e. Bobcats could be thinking not only about Diop but maybe about Maggette too. Thomas is out of question as with one amnesty clause use per year there is no hurry to decide on him (yet).

We are saying the same thing. We pay $3m for Marvin Williams and the Hawks owe the balance is the same as 3m being subtracted from what the Hawks owe him.

There is only one amnesty for this CBA and it only counts for exisiting contracts that are already signed (you can use it in any year but, only 1 time). There is also a stretch provision that can be used but, only for new contracts but, those players contracts still count count against the cap but it's spread over twice the existing contract length plus one year. For example you have player x under contract for 2 years and 20 million, you can waive him and stretch his his cap hit over 5 years for 4 million per.

[docend24]

I heard one per year, I we'll wait and see what the final deal will look like. It wuld make more sense "your" way but that doesn't necessarily rule out the other way, does it? :)

[JGib23]

I heard one per year, I we'll wait and see what the final deal will look like. It wuld make more sense "your" way but that doesn't necessarily rule out the other way, does it? :)

Here's a good explanation.

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&chrome=true&srcid=0B_JqVMjKAfLYNzU3YzVlNDAtMDBlOS00Y2UwLWE5ZTI tM2RkZTdjN2FmMzI4&hl=en_US

[SWedd523]

14.

Amnesty

Each team permitted to waive 1 player prior to any season of the CBA
(only for contracts in place at the inception of the CBA) and have 100% of
the player’s salary removed from team salary for Cap and Tax purposes.

Salary of amnestied players included for purposes of calculating players’
agreed-upon share of BRI.

A modified waiver process will be utilized for players waived pursuant to
the Amnesty rule, under which teams with Room under the Cap can
submit competing offers to assume some but not all of the player’s
remaining contract. If a player’s contract is claimed in this manner, the
remaining portion of the player’s salary will continue to be paid by the
team that waived him.




Sounds like only 1 player can be waived, at any time. Not 1 player every year

[JGib23]

Anybody on board with bidding on Brandon Roy after he gets amnestied? I know his knees are a huge question mark but at say 3 or 4 million over the next 3 seasons I thinks it's worth the risk. Roy playing about 20 minutes/night in a back up role would be ideal and with his ball handling and passing ability he would be a nice compliment to Kemba aswell.

BRoy and Hendo would be a very solid SG rotation (Also relatively cheap)

[SWedd523]

No sir. Serves no purpose

[JGib23]

No sir. Serves no purpose

No offense but, Wow! At 3 or 4 million per, you don't think he would serve a purpose?

You do know that Matt Carroll is our back up SG and that Gerald Henderson is recovering from offseason surgery on his hip?

I can understand if you thought there was a better option at a cheap price but, to suggest that adding a solid back up sg who is a knee injury removed from being an all star serves no purpose on a team that lacks for talent as bad as ours.

What happens if Hendo misses a few games? Are you really comfortable with Matt Carroll playing significant minutes? or Kemba and DJ backcourt playing significant mintues together?

IMO, SG is by far our weakest position (more weak than Center because I think we can go with Biyombo or Tyrus at the 5 in a Pinch)

[SWedd523]

Okay so let's say he plays fantastic. We go from a 15 win team to a 20 win team? Is "3 or 4 million per" worth STILL being in the lottery? No. Now let's say he continues to be broken down. We just wasted "3 or 4 million per" for nothing.


Not worth it.

[JGib23]

Okay so let's say he plays fantastic. We go from a 15 win team to a 20 win team? Is "3 or 4 million per" worth STILL being in the lottery? No. Now let's say he continues to be broken down. We just wasted "3 or 4 million per" for nothing.


Not worth it.

Understand he can't add alot of wins right now but, I really think that 2 seasons from now (If the Draft goes well), we can be a solid team in the east and he would be the perfect vet off of the bench for a young up and coming team.

I guess what I'm really saying that I don't think we could attract a similar talent via free agency without spending twice that amount.

I do understand your injury concerns.

[SWedd523]

That could work, but I'm still wary of him and his knees. With a condition like that, it's only going to get worse. So in a couple of years, there's no telling what we'd be able to expect.


Though I will say, if fully healthy, he'd be a great bench player if and when we're ready to compete. I'd be more comfortable with it if we had that "franchise" player we know we can build around

[Chef]

Okay so let's say he plays fantastic. We go from a 15 win team to a 20 win team? Is "3 or 4 million per" worth STILL being in the lottery? No. Now let's say he continues to be broken down. We just wasted "3 or 4 million per" for nothing.


Not worth it.

playing the big what if game here. up front, i agree 100% with you on this and would extend this reasoning to all other FA and/or amnesty players this season.

but let's say his health improves to the point where he wins 4 or 5 games and positively affects 15 in a season. imagine what a contender would give up for him if the tradeable contract were 3-4 million? he would be one of the most valuable midseason to trade deadline trade pieces in the league.

[docend24]

Understand he can't add alot of wins right now but, I really think that 2 seasons from now (If the Draft goes well), we can be a solid team in the east and he would be the perfect vet off of the bench for a young up and coming team.

I guess what I'm really saying that I don't think we could attract a similar talent via free agency without spending twice that amount.

I do understand your injury concerns.

No offense, how long have you been following Bobcats? do you remember the Morrison draft? If so please explain why do you want Roy of all people to play in Charlotte.

On another note - having Carroll, who I presume you consider weak subpar option, as a backup SG is a good scenario and this year I would pick him over Roy every day of a week. He is a classy guy, have quite a history associated with the franchise, fans tend to love him and he won't make us much better. The only type of player I would rather have instead of him is an uproven underrated young player. This year freshamn are eligible for 2012 draft, period (would it better if they are not as we are likely to have two first rounders next year, but then the record would be even more important this year as without draft additions we are going nowhere).

[JGib23]

No offense, how long have you been following Bobcats? do you remember the Morrison draft? If so please explain why do you want Roy of all people to play in Charlotte.

On another note - having Carroll, who I presume you consider weak subpar option, as a backup SG is a good scenario and this year I would pick him over Roy every day of a week. He is a classy guy, have quite a history associated with the franchise, fans tend to love him and he won't make us much better. The only type of player I would rather have instead of him is an uproven underrated young player. This year freshamn are eligible for 2012 draft, period (would it better if they are not as we are likely to have two first rounders next year, but then the record would be even more important this year as without draft additions we are going nowhere).

No offense taken but, I've been following Charlotte Basketball since the Hornets and remember laying in the floor at my Grandparents house watching the Cavs kick our ass by about 40 points and my Christmas present that year was tickets to the 1 Hornets game (versus the Hawks).

I remember when Shinn was 1st looking for a co-owner and MJ wasn't good enough but Ray Woolridge was, I remember Bob Johnson 1st offering to write Shinn a check to keep the Hornets in town. I remember being pissed off when Johnson was chosen over the Bird/Belkin group, I remember Jason Hart, CSET, trading with the Clippers for the # 2 pick in our first draft and the Magic informing us earlier on the day of the Draft that they would select Emeka only to have a change of heart later in the day. I remember the last game of the inaugural season and Bernie played our starters against the Pistons Bench scrubs and we won a meaningless game that tied us with the Hornets and we lost the coin flip which gave us Ray Ray instead of CP3.

I remember Roy not wanting to be drafted here and I remember wanting to draft Rudy, the difference now is we would get Roy and he has no say in where he plays, he could be a great bench option/vet for a "cheap" contract and also a nice trade chip.

I appreciate that Matt is a good guy and solid shooter but, I don't want him playing significant minutes and don't think he will be around in3 seasons where Roy could be ours for 4 seasons.

[dav7z]

Roy for 3or 4 mil per . I got to take that chance.

[WAM9]

Agreed.

Roy for that kind of money is a no brainer to me.

The worst thing that would happen is he turns into Matt Carroll (sits our bench and gets paid $3.5 million).

[docend24]

No that's far from thwe worts thing. Worts thing is him being good neough to spoil our chnces on a good pick and not good enough to be traded for value worth losing a top X pick this year.

Also Roy has as much no say whether he wants to play here as he had prior to his draft.

i would of course root for us to win game time but other than that we should be realistic with our long term chances and od what it takes. I don't suggest delibitrately tank games, rather having a weak team with upside without a shotz to compete but still somewhat eneteratining to watch and beind able to keep games in close margin. Maggette is a perfect player for that role.

[teej]

Pardon me for maybe being ignorant, but isn't Roy a combination of Henderson and Kemba? Why would we want that? The idea is to get younger and develop here, not to be a playoff team.

[rsxnova]

The only reason i pickup Roy is to flip him to a contender.

[Sik Infant]

Okay so let's say he plays fantastic. We go from a 15 win team to a 20 win team? Is "3 or 4 million per" worth STILL being in the lottery? No. Now let's say he continues to be broken down. We just wasted "3 or 4 million per" for nothing.


Not worth it.

I agree with this...

Also....three words.....

Bone on bone...

[WAM9]

Everyone has their opinions about Roy. Everything from take a chance to don't take a chance cause he might be good and spoil our draft pick to he is done (bone on bone).

I simply think you acquire an asset anytime you can. For me, it would be hard for me to turn down an affordable asset when we, as a team, are short on them. Nothing more, nothing less.

[spectre]

I simply think you acquire an asset anytime you can. For me, it would be hard for me to turn down an affordable asset when we, as a team, are short on them. Nothing more, nothing less.

Yup, I agree.

First tho I'm not so sure they'll amnesty Roy. Second I think he'd have way more options on his preferred west coast before he'd have to worry about playing for us.

[SWedd523]

Everyone has their opinions about Roy. Everything from take a chance to don't take a chance cause he might be good and spoil our draft pick to he is done (bone on bone).

I simply think you acquire an asset anytime you can. For me, it would be hard for me to turn down an affordable asset when we, as a team, are short on them. Nothing more, nothing less.

Well let's not act like "3 or 4 million" is going to be the price to acquire his talents. We won't be the only team able to bid on guys, there's plenty of possibility that some other team would offer more than that.

[JGib23]

Well let's not act like "3 or 4 million" is going to be the price to acquire his talents. We won't be the only team able to bid on guys, there's plenty of possibility that some other team would offer more than that.

Guys, Remember this with all Amnesty Players.... They don't have a choice in where they play. They are under contract and go to the highest bidder- end of discussion.

Also, the only teams that can bid on amnesty players are teams that under the Salary Cap (Not Luxury Tax), so these guys don't have the choice of going to play for the Lakers, Dallas, etc.

It's going to be a fun couple of weeks with the shortend offseason.

[dav7z]

Well let's not act like "3 or 4 million" is going to be the price to acquire his talents. We won't be the only team able to bid on guys, there's plenty of possibility that some other team would offer more than that.

Bottom line is we still got to spend 6 milion to hit the 85% or get to 59.5 some kind of way . Im hoping one year and frunt loaded contracts. Doc24 I all so see exactly from where you coming and compleatly agree.

[spectre]

Poof! Goes a Bad Contract, if Any N.B.A. Team Wishes (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/28/sports/basketball/each-nba-team-can-waive-one-bad-contract.html?_r=3)


“I don’t think there will be very many at all,” said one team executive, who asked to remain anonymous while the lockout remains in effect.

At most, three to six teams will take advantage of the amnesty clause this year, the executive said — a view that was echoed by others around the league. The reasons are varied and complicated.

Some teams are so far above the cap that removing one player will not provide room to sign free agents. A few teams have such low payrolls that they would dip below the minimum-payroll requirements. At least 10 teams have no obvious candidates for amnesty.

And many teams might simply hold onto their amnesty card for a future year. According to a draft of the rule, a team can use the provision in any off-season, subject to two restrictions: the player must have been signed before July 1, 2011, and must be on the team’s current roster.

In other words, a team cannot sign or trade for a player now and apply for amnesty later. The provision is meant for past mistakes, not future cap calamities.

[spectre]

Bottom line is we still got to spend 6 milion to hit the 85% or get to 59.5 some kind of way.

85% of 58 million (CAP...not LT) is approx. 49.3 million. Per Hoopshype we're sitting at 47.5 million right now + the 2 rooks will add about 5 million.

We're well over the 85% line with our existing 12 guys (counting Dante's QO).

[dav7z]

85% of 58 million (CAP...not LT) is approx. 49.3 million. Per Hoopshype we're sitting at 47.5 million right now + the 2 rooks will add about 5 million.

We're well over the 85% line with our existing 12 guys (counting Dante's QO).
Spectre i hope you right . The artical i read yesterday was stating the luxery tax number at around 70 milion. If thats the case we have to spend at least 59.5. Though i like your 49.3 much better . I,ll see if i can find that artical. But it stated the luxery tax yas the one teams had to go by.

[SWedd523]

Spectre i hope you right . The artical i read yesterday was stating the luxery tax number at around 70 milion. If thats the case we have to spend at least 59.5. Though i like your 49.3 much better . I,ll see if i can find that artical. But it stated the luxery tax yas the one teams had to go by.

It's the cap, not the Luxury Tax. We'll be right there at it with the rooks and some min level guys

[dav7z]

It's the cap, not the Luxury Tax. We'll be right there at it with the rooks and some min level guys

You guys are right . I found this new cba agreement . It settles any questions of how the new agreemant works.


http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/page/CBA-111128/how-new-nba-deal-compares-last-one

[docend24]

Rsxnova might have a point. If we would pick up Roy from waivers only to trade him further to a (contending) team who can't get him from waivers itself because of being over cap and not counting on him playing for use at all, I can see it as a viable option as long as out front office could get to him fast and prevent any publci statements abut how he wouldn't like to play for Charlotte. He of course can't choose where he is heading after amnesty used on him but can become angry malcontent (which I hope is unlikely but still) - that would force our hand and we would get less in return in a trade. If I am not mistaken and those things haven't changed we would have to trade him alone (or wait couple of months) so we would get a player(s) of similar salary in return + cash and/or pick s eventually. Do we have anybody particular on our mind - young player buried on contending team or contender with right to pick of a bad team?

Anyway such an approach could be applied to any good but currently grossly overpaid would be amnestied played. When is going to be a trade deadline, do we know already? And btw till which date FAs can be signed? I ask because of players currently in China where the league is supposed to end in March.

[SWedd523]

Trying to address all your points here, I apologize if I don't get them all.


1. A bid and save concept could work, but I'd like to have a tentative deal in place with some team if we're going to take that route. I'm not going to pretend to know about the teams over the cap, but perhaps to Memphis for Mayo? to Chicago for Brewer (or Watson, or Taj) and our our first back? It's too tough to really tell considering we have no idea how high the bid will go for his services.

2. We don't know yet, but I would imagine the trade deadline would be around whenever the all-star game is. I'm sure they'll have the deadline laid out when the deal gets ratified by both sides.

3. As for FAs, I thought they've always been able to be signed anytime during the regular season. This has never really been an issue because the good FAs are always picked up super early, so it'll be interesting to see what they decide on the guys with no out clauses.

[spectre]

Saw a couple more rumors on how this might play out...

Teams with space under the cap make blind bids...high team gets him. If no bids then it goes to teams under the cap who can offer the full MLE and the over cap teams who can offer that partial MLE. He would then choose from them like a regular FA.

In regards to Roy I think it's a huge gamble. More than a few teams have more space than we do and who's to say the guy's knees don't crumble on the way to the hotel after signing a contract?

Maybe with another guy it'd be worth the thought, esp. if the deal was only for a year or so. Speaking of which no one's heard about any mandatory lengths on these deals have they?

[Icky Thump]

No offense taken but, I've been following Charlotte Basketball since the Hornets and remember laying in the floor at my Grandparents house watching the Cavs kick our ass by about 40 points and my Christmas present that year was tickets to the 1 Hornets game (versus the Hawks).

I remember when Shinn was 1st looking for a co-owner and MJ wasn't good enough but Ray Woolridge was, I remember Bob Johnson 1st offering to write Shinn a check to keep the Hornets in town. I remember being pissed off when Johnson was chosen over the Bird/Belkin group, I remember Jason Hart, CSET, trading with the Clippers for the # 2 pick in our first draft and the Magic informing us earlier on the day of the Draft that they would select Emeka only to have a change of heart later in the day. I remember the last game of the inaugural season and Bernie played our starters against the Pistons Bench scrubs and we won a meaningless game that tied us with the Hornets and we lost the coin flip which gave us Ray Ray instead of CP3.

I remember Roy not wanting to be drafted here and I remember wanting to draft Rudy, the difference now is we would get Roy and he has no say in where he plays, he could be a great bench option/vet for a "cheap" contract and also a nice trade chip.

I appreciate that Matt is a good guy and solid shooter but, I don't want him playing significant minutes and don't think he will be around in3 seasons where Roy could be ours for 4 seasons.



Wow. I remember all that and more as well... http://www.smileyvault.com/albums/userpics/10404/suicide.gif (http://www.smileyvault.com/)

[ohara831]

Marc Stein and Chad Ford at ESPN have article on Amnesty and what teams will likely use it and who they will use it on. For Charlotte, they said it is a Slam Dunk they use it, and most likely on Diop. That was today 12/1/11 They said MJ does not like the idea of paying someone not to play, but that he can make a move to get someone to help us if he gets far enough under the cap. So it would seem to me that tanking for a Top 3 pick is not on MJ's agenda.

[Chef]

So it would seem to me that tanking for a Top 3 pick is not on MJ's agenda.

they are usually wrong with their prognostications so let's hope they are wrong again. as for not getting a top 3 pick, let's hope mj learned first hand the dangers of going with a win now approach with the whole larry brown escapade.

[dav7z]

I kinda think CP3 is on MJs mind.

[ChuckHayes69]

I kinda think CP3 is on MJs mind.

Personally I hope not. I mean I'd love to have him but I hope our leadership is more realistic than to think he is going to come here. Paul has had enough time on a crappy team to want to come here, even if he is from North Carolina. The odds on him playing for Charlotte before the age of 30 is 100/1 or worse. I hope Im wrong, but I doubt it.