Smack

[dav7z]

Very long artical on SMACK
http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Bismack-Biyombo-5902/
He reminds me of a cross of D Howard , KG, and ZO
The sky is his limit THOUGHTS

[docend24]

Uhm, June 2011? Seriously?!

[dav7z]

Uhm, June 2011? Seriously?!
SERIOUSLY He has more just raw talent than any big man thets came out sence D Howard. How it is used and devoloped is a different story.

[Toocool]

SERIOUSLY He has more just raw talent than any big man thets came out sence D Howard. How it is used and devoloped is a different story.

Anyone read the manga Slam Dunk? He reminds me of Sakuragi Hanamichi. Athletic rebounding blocking beast, with amazing talent and unparalleled speed at developing his skills. Honestly, to have that much offensive game after only playing a few years is phenomenal. It takes time to grow into an offensive/post game, not everyone can be intense scorers from the get-go. However, the best thing is his amazing work ethic and his will to succeed. He's got a great attitude too.

"I'm working on everything. My post moves. My shot. I'm trying to do everything on the floor," Biyombo said. "My offensive game is not the best that I can just come inside the team and start. I can do some things on offense, I can shoot the ball, just not that impressive. I can make some post moves; it's not impressive.
"I have a long summer, so that's what I'm going to do in the summer."

I had high hopes for Ajinca, and we all know how that turned out. Story after story of these athletic gifted beasts drafted on potential, and at the most become these hustle players. I think Smack has a really good shot at breaking the trend. Just his work ethic, and how he's developed in such a short time. Plus, big man take a long time to develop, he's still got another 2-3 years minimum before he really starts to show what he's made of. Thankfully, the defense, the rebounding and the blocking is already there, and the dream shake too.

[docend24]

SERIOUSLY He has more just raw talent than any big man thets came out sence D Howard. How it is used and devoloped is a different story.

Sure. Is there a need to start a brand new thread because of a "very new" article from June 2011 everybody read or know where to find? You are year late with these articles. I could see a point if it would from some other source than from mecca of every draft enthusiast. Come on.

[dav7z]

Sure. Is there a need to start a brand new thread because of a "very new" article from June 2011 everybody read or know where to find? You are year late with these articles. I could see a point if it would from some other source than from mecca of every draft enthusiast. Come on.
I don't even know if you was posting this summer but this place was dead . Its starting to come to life with good and instresting post . Knowledgeable people like you and the regulars is all we had this summer . So i felt it instresting to discuss this rooks abilitys once again for the ones just comeing back. If you have a more up to date artical . Please post it so it can become part of a discusion.

[Chef]

I don't even know if you was posting this summer but this place was dead . Its starting to come to life with good and instresting post . Knowledgeable people like you and the regulars is all we had this summer . So i felt it instresting to discuss this rooks abilitys once again for the ones just comeing back. If you have a more up to date artical . Please post it so it can become part of a discusion.

no need to explain yourself dav.

[Toocool]

Even most of the regulars were left. I did try to keep this board 'somewhat' alive, a futile task. No doubt we need a section, with a thread made for each Bobcats player and we can shove all the discussion into there. I think it would be awesome (i.e New section of Forums called 'Players' which has TT, Hendo, etc. where you can make a thread on a player and then discuss them throughout the season with the thread). Possible Ziggy?

Anyway, any discussion here is nice to see. It's sad when BCP is empty.

[ziggy]

Well, with the lockout over, our long, desolate summer of hopelessness and despair has past... That sounded almost poetic didn't it?

If we wanted to do some threads to breakdown individual players, I think its fine to create them here in the bobcats talk section. Go for it.

[ChuckHayes69]

Well, with the lockout over, our long, desolate summer of hopelessness and despair has past... That sounded almost poetic didn't it?

If we wanted to do some threads to breakdown individual players, I think its fine to create them here in the bobcats talk section. Go for it.

If this is the official Biyambo thread then, I think something to bring up is the contract issue with Spain. I am sure there's a more recent article etc. but this should give a basic background story if anyone doesn't know about it.

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2011/07/30/2491302/fiba-tells-bobcats-biyombo-isnt.html

[ammofan]

Anyone see his interview the Cats posted on Facebook from today? His voice and personality is pure comedy. He'll be a big star if he can play.....which I think he can and will. I elect Bitchsmack to do any and all in arena video player promotions.....commercials too!

[dav7z]

Anyone see his interview the Cats posted on Facebook from today? His voice and personality is pure comedy. He'll be a big star if he can play.....which I think he can and will. I elect Bitchsmack to do any and all in arena video player promotions.....commercials too!
Agreeded hes great. They was saying he had a 9ft 3in flat foot standing reach. He has a 40 in vertical. He should be able to grab a coin off the top of the back board easy. Thats going to be hell to get a shot over.............................................. ...

[Plowright]

Problem with having a players section where you discuss him is that you might be discussing two totally different things. eg Dante Cunninghams potential and him smoking weed. These posts would be all mixed up with each other. I like it the way it is. Yes the board was dead over the summer, and i will admit i did not post because i thought whats the point kind of. So i think its valid to bring up things from the time, im sure a lot of the people who dont check all the sites will have missed a lot as they probably used the forum to get all their info

[ohara831]

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2011/12/02/2822262/biyombo-sees-gain-in-spain.html

This is welcomed news! Hopefully he is right and this gets worked out in the next week and he is in camp on the 9th!

[TheBeagle]

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2011/12/02/2822262/biyombo-sees-gain-in-spain.html

This is welcomed news! Hopefully he is right and this gets worked out in the next week and he is in camp on the 9th! Good stuff. Would love to have seen how his matchup with Tyrus went.

[Sik Infant]

I believe Bismack will be our Ben Wallace, he may never be the positional defender that Ben was but he will be intimidating filling the lane definitely & may get more blocks from length & wingspan alone.

I view him as the type of player Greg Oden was meant to be, nasty defense with passable offense & the type of guy who makes penetration from the wing an occupational hazard. The type of guy who wins you games but gets very little credit & is a must on a contender.

I view him as a 12/12/3.5 big in his prime.

Perennial DPOY candidate waiting to happen.

[Sik Infant]

Good stuff. Would love to have seen how his matchup with Tyrus went.

Apparantly Tyrus embarrassed Biyombo a few times but TT also said that BB is Emeka strong ala impossible to move on the block.

Great sign for a youngster.

[dav7z]

Apparantly Tyrus embarrassed Biyombo a few times but TT also said that BB is Emeka strong ala impossible to move on the block.

Great sign for a youngster.

I think he starts the season with a very strong defencive game. But his offence will be a work in progress. I think he will be a bigger inside presence than OK50.right from the start.

Good read
http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2011/12/03/2824498/biyombo-a-huge-roll-of-dice.html

[Sik Infant]

I think he starts the season with a very strong defencive game. But his offence will be a work in progress. I think he will be a bigger inside presence than OK50.right from the start.

Good read
http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2011/12/03/2824498/biyombo-a-huge-roll-of-dice.html


I agree that he will be a good defensive presence from the start but I believe his offense is better than advertised aswell.

He could be a double-double threat sooner rather than later.

[Plowright]

Sik infant, is this based on your general thoughts? Because everyone who has seen him play has said he is raw as hell. I think 90% of his offence will come off hustle plays and putbacks. I don't think his "moves" are going to fool anyone right now. I could be wrong

[anton273]

I think he will struggle on offensive! He will be there t set screens and grab the offensive rebound! Defence he will foul a lot but should be a great rebounder from the get go as that's all he will focus on getting that ball! Dish to kemba and see how him n Hendo work!

[dav7z]

I agree that he will be a good defensive presence from the start but I believe his offense is better than advertised aswell.

He could be a double-double threat sooner rather than later.

So you thinking a 10 and 10 or even better . 10 and 10 and 4 is likely playing 30mins per. Depends on the playing time. Im looking to see a lot of lob dunks and put backs. All so read his hook is coming around working all summer with M Jackson.

[SWedd523]

Wow we have some optimistic guys. Talk about setting yourself up for a let down. I would be surprised if Bismack gets more than 15 minutes a game his rookie year. He might finish up around 4/6/2.

[dav7z]

Wow we have some optimistic guys. Talk about setting yourself up for a let down. I would be surprised if Bismack gets more than 15 minutes a game his rookie year. He might finish up around 4/6/2.

OK50 started the first year and posted the highest numbers so far in his carer . SMACK is a better rebounder . And blocks shots much better than OK50 . His offencive game is behind OK50 . But i think hes a better offencive rebounder. Playing 25 mins or better he should average a dubble,dubble. Salis should start both rookies to speed up inprovment. Even if that means DJ sitting or getting traded.

[SWedd523]

Okafor was also a 22 year old college Junior coming off a national championship run. Bismack has been playing ball for what, 5 years now? He's much more raw, with only a fraction of the experience and development that Okafor had before being drafted. I don't think the two of them are a very good comparison at all.

[dav7z]

Okafor was also a 22 year old college Junior coming off a national championship run. Bismack has been playing ball for what, 5 years now? He's much more raw, with only a fraction of the experience and development that Okafor had before being drafted. I don't think the two of them are a very good comparison at all.
You right Smack is much more athletic . Has tons more up side . At 19 hes as strong as OK50 at 22. You right he will block more shots and get more boards. Hes what 1 inch shorter and has what a 1o inch longer reach than OK50. Don't he have a better vertical all so? Isn't he trying to get out of a pro contract equal to a nba D league . Close to playing college ball. You right they might not should be compared.

[SWedd523]

Dwight had Okafor physically outclassed too, yet Okafor had a better rookie season.


Here are all of the super raw, athletic big men and their rookie years

Chris Bosh--12 and 7
Darko Milicic--1 and 1
Dwight Howard--12 and 10
Andrew Bynum--2 and 2
Tyrus Thomas--5 and 4
Patrick O'Bryant--2 and 1
Mouhamed Sene--2 and 2
Greg Oden--9 and 7
Brandan Wright--4 and 3
Hasheem Thabeet--3 and 4
Derrick Favors--7 and 5

Average points: 5
Average boards: 4
Double Doubles: 1 (Dwight)
10+ points: 2
5+ boards: 4




Here are a few of the guys who came in either older, or with a pro-ready game

Chris Kaman--6 and 6
Emeka Okafor--15 and 11
Andrew Bogut--9 and 7
Andrea Bargnani--12 and 4
LaMarcus Aldridge--9 and 5
Al Horford--10 and 10
Joakim Noah--7 and 6
Kevin Love--11 and 9
Brook Lopez--13 and 8
DeMarcus Cousins--14 and 9
Greg Monroe--9 and 8

Average points: 11
Average boards: 8
Double doubles: 2
10+ points: 6
5+ boards: 10



If history has shown us anything, it's to not expect much from Bismack next year. Especially not a double double since only one "raw" player in the last 8 or so years to do it is Dwight Howard.

[anton273]

That's some great number crunching!!!

Do you not think he will run tyrus/diAw/brown more often then bringing in smack for a bit of stability!

Kemba will get plenty of mins but smack will get limited time plus you gotta think he will foul too often to stay on the field for long periods!

[SWedd523]

1. He's really raw
2. He's going to be plagued by foul issues for at least a season
3. He's in a crowded big man rotation

Those three things are going to greatly reduce his expected minutes.

[dav7z]

Dwight had Okafor physically outclassed too, yet Okafor had a better rookie season.


Here are all of the super raw, athletic big men and their rookie years

Chris Bosh--12 and 7
Darko Milicic--1 and 1
Dwight Howard--12 and 10
Andrew Bynum--2 and 2
Tyrus Thomas--5 and 4
Patrick O'Bryant--2 and 1
Mouhamed Sene--2 and 2
Greg Oden--9 and 7
Brandan Wright--4 and 3
Hasheem Thabeet--3 and 4
Derrick Favors--7 and 5

Average points: 5
Average boards: 4
Double Doubles: 1 (Dwight)
10+ points: 2
5+ boards: 4




Here are a few of the guys who came in either older, or with a pro-ready game

Chris Kaman--6 and 6
Emeka Okafor--15 and 11
Andrew Bogut--9 and 7
Andrea Bargnani--12 and 4
LaMarcus Aldridge--9 and 5
Al Horford--10 and 10
Joakim Noah--7 and 6
Kevin Love--11 and 9
Brook Lopez--13 and 8
DeMarcus Cousins--14 and 9
Greg Monroe--9 and 8

Average points: 11
Average boards: 8
Double doubles: 2
10+ points: 6
5+ boards: 10



If history has shown us anything, it's to not expect much from Bismack next year. Especially not a double double since only one "raw" player in the last 8 or so years to do it is Dwight Howard.

1st I got to say great post . And very nice finding stats. This is what makes the site great'.
Of the first groupe i would only put a few of those guys in his class athleticly.
Bosh, Howard, Bynum Oden , Athleticly only though others may have better skills.
In your 2nd bunch it does show a big difference in first year skill level. Though thair skills are better i can't name 1 more athletic than Smack.
What this tells me is he is going to end up some where between. Darco and Howard?
Now i have a lot of faith in CHO and his assesment of players . And im guessing he knows this guys game better than most any GM in the league. CHO did put a lot on the line to move up and get this kid. So im thinking this kid is the real deal.

[dav7z]

That's some great number crunching!!!

Do you not think he will run tyrus/diAw/brown more often then bringing in smack for a bit of stability!

Kemba will get plenty of mins but smack will get limited time plus you gotta think he will foul too often to stay on the field for long periods!
With signing KB. . This kid starts .He might start any way. If you was rebuilding a team would you not give your core building blocks as much experiance as possable. This isn't LB coaching.
Don't be a bit surprized if both rookies start..
You guys keep saying compitition at his position . What compition? DIOP , KB hasn't signed yet

[SWedd523]

1st I got to say great post . And very nice finding stats. This is what makes the site great'.
Of the first groupe i would only put a few of those guys in his class athleticly.
Bosh, Howard, Bynum Oden , Athleticly only though others may have better skills.
In your 2nd bunch it does show a big difference in first year skill level. Though thair skills are better i can't name 1 more athletic than Smack.
What this tells me is he is going to end up some where between. Darco and Howard?
Now i have a lot of faith in CHO and his assesment of players . And im guessing he knows this guys game better than most any GM in the league. CHO did put a lot on the line to move up and get this kid. So im thinking this kid is the real deal.

dav, I'm not trying to say he won't eventually be a really good or great player. I'm just trying to make sure we keep things in perspective. He might break the mold and put up fantastic numbers out of the gate, but he just has a lot of things working against him. I'd love to be wrong and have him come out and post a double double, but I don't want to get my hopes up and watch him struggle.

[Sik Infant]

Sik infant, is this based on your general thoughts? Because everyone who has seen him play has said he is raw as hell. I think 90% of his offence will come off hustle plays and putbacks. I don't think his "moves" are going to fool anyone right now. I could be wrong

These are my thoughts on it being optimistic, I've only seen him in two games which were both all-star games which I know we take little stock in.

But...

In those games I was expecting this completely raw Saer Sene type prospect but I was pleasantly surprised by his ability, obviously he is far from polished but he seems a bit further along in his development than given credit for. His hands are soft on the glass as well as in the post and he shoots free throws pretty well, he seems explosive in the post,seals off well & goes up hard where he will draw plenty of fouls. If he can get a couple of assisted dunks/oops & a few putbacks plus some free throws he will be at 10 points there. I can see it happening.

By saying I think he will be a double-double player sooner rather than later I mean it may take a few seasons but he will get there, even if it takes him a couple of years to do it we will have a double-double center who is a defensive freak & 21 years old. I don't think it will take any longer than 3 years.

[Toocool]

These are my thoughts on it being optimistic, I've only seen him in two games which were both all-star games which I know we take little stock in.

But...

In those games I was expecting this completely raw Saer Sene type prospect but I was pleasantly surprised by his ability, obviously he is far from polished but he seems a bit further along in his development than given credit for. His hands are soft on the glass as well as in the post and he shoots free throws pretty well, he seems explosive in the post,seals off well & goes up hard where he will draw plenty of fouls. If he can get a couple of assisted dunks/oops & a few putbacks plus some free throws he will be at 10 points there. I can see it happening.

By saying I think he will be a double-double player sooner rather than later I mean it may take a few seasons but he will get there, even if it takes him a couple of years to do it we will have a double-double center who is a defensive freak & 21 years old. I don't think it will take any longer than 3 years.

It's not like we've never played with useless offensive centers before anyway. We're used to it by now. Tyson Chandler only averaged 6 points here by dunking, alley-oops and offensive rebounds. When the short time of the White Gorilla was on the floor, he was offensively crap. OK50 provided a post presence, but not a strong one. The problem is that you look at these athletic beasts, the 'tyson chandlers,' the 'Hasheem Thabeets,' the 'Brandon Wrights' and you see that yes they are athletic as hell, but they don't improve their offensive game whatsoever, years gone by (i.e TC, 29). The only thing TC has going for him in terms of a post move is a hook shot, which even then is rarely, if ever seen. Ajinca is another one. Athletic, long, full of potential and yet he couldn't put it all together. It's the same story around the league. Guys drafted for their immense potential and they never reach it. No one is wrong in being sceptical about BB not reaching his potential, it's rather bucking the trend if he puts it all together.

However, I do think BB will also get there, being a double double player, but he has a long way to go. If he works hard, puts in the effort I think he could get there.

[tondi]

The thing about BB that I am most excited about is his on court temperment which is supposedly pretty intense and borderline nasty. You combine this with someone of obvious intelligence who also has, by all accounts, a great work ethic and maybe that can develop into something special. How many big men have we all seen over the years that seem passive and content to float through games while seeming to provide little effort? How nice will it be to have a big guy out there that plays with aggression and passion, even if he is getting abused at first?

[dav7z]

It's not like we've never played with useless offensive centers before anyway. We're used to it by now. Tyson Chandler only averaged 6 points here by dunking, alley-oops and offensive rebounds. When the short time of the White Gorilla was on the floor, he was offensively crap. OK50 provided a post presence, but not a strong one. The problem is that you look at these athletic beasts, the 'tyson chandlers,' the 'Hasheem Thabeets,' the 'Brandon Wrights' and you see that yes they are athletic as hell, but they don't improve their offensive game whatsoever, years gone by (i.e TC, 29). The only thing TC has going for him in terms of a post move is a hook shot, which even then is rarely, if ever seen. Ajinca is another one. Athletic, long, full of potential and yet he couldn't put it all together. It's the same story around the league. Guys drafted for their immense potential and they never reach it. No one is wrong in being sceptical about BB not reaching his potential, it's rather bucking the trend if he puts it all together.

However, I do think BB will also get there, being a double double player, but he has a long way to go. If he works hard, puts in the effort I think he could get there.
TC is the closest player i can think of to compare him to. Smack is stronger , TC is smarter right now, They both block shots well and altar shots defend the middle well . Both talk on the defencive end a lot . CHO pointed this trait about SMACK a while back. According to rumors im hearing he sets screans well just like TC. He all so makes his self real wide for the entry pass or lob . Even better then TC . Both has a hook and thats about it early in SMACKS carer. I think SMACK gets up higher is little quicker, and stronger .Im still looking for a 12, 10, 4 type player this season if he starts.

[dav7z]

The thing about BB that I am most excited about is his on court temperment which is supposedly pretty intense and borderline nasty. You combine this with someone of obvious intelligence who also has, by all accounts, a great work ethic and maybe that can develop into something special. How many big men have we all seen over the years that seem passive and content to float through games while seeming to provide little effort? How nice will it be to have a big guy out there that plays with aggression and passion, even if he is getting abused at first?

I read hes ZO intense, And has one great work ethic . SMART speaks five languages. And lets it be known hes wants to be great . A do what it takes to be great. He worked all summer long with M, Jackson , SMACK remarked tough workouts and long hours . But he learned tons.

[Plowright]

I remember an inteview where he told the reporter he was going to lead the NBA in rebounding. He was deadly serious and was like, "you may not believe me but i know i will. I wont allow myself not to". Love that attitude. I think thats why CHO fell in love with him, he had a meal with him before draft tiem while he was still at Portland and probably was won over by him.

[dav7z]

I remember an inteview where he told the reporter he was going to lead the NBA in rebounding. He was deadly serious and was like, "you may not believe me but i know i will. I wont allow myself not to". Love that attitude. I think thats why CHO fell in love with him, he had a meal with him before draft tiem while he was still at Portland and probably was won over by him.

I am very supprized Spectre hasn't posted about this pick. Being the biggest CHO fan on this board . CHO all so watched him tons over seas . SMACK if nothing else is a CHO pick.

[spectre]

I am very supprized Spectre hasn't posted about this pick. Being the biggest CHO fan on this board . CHO all so watched him tons over seas . SMACK if nothing else is a CHO pick.

You mean in this thread...cuz I've been raving about Smack in other places!

IMO this draft=BEST DRAFT EVER. And it couldn't have come at a better time as end of last season was my lowest point ever being a Bobcats' fan...and I didn't like that place at all.

And yes...I am indeed loving me some Cho.

[dav7z]

You mean in this thread...cuz I've been raving about Smack in other places!

IMO this draft=BEST DRAFT EVER. And it couldn't have come at a better time as end of last season was my lowest point ever being a Bobcats' fan...and I didn't like that place at all.

And yes...I am indeed loving me some Cho.
So what is your prediction of SMACK and his carer.

[Keetch]

If Bismack even approaches the greatness that was Ryan Hollins Bobcats years; I'll be overwhelmed.

[dav7z]

If Bismack even approaches the greatness that was Ryan Hollins Bobcats years; I'll be overwhelmed.
You have to be kiding .

[stun704]

Bismack will be a top 5 center in the league and will dethrone Dwight Howard as the DPOY, but his rookie year, if he starts he'll average a double double, and have a couple of triple doubles with blocks

[SWedd523]

I'm willing to bet $50 that Bismack will not average a double-double

[dav7z]

I'm willing to bet $50 that Bismack will not average a double-double
Im willing to bet a 1000 dollars he will be better than Hollins....
All so if this kid gets the start . That 50 could be lost . I don't think 704 is that far off.

[dnbman]

Yeah, don't break them into a new section. Too many scattered threads happen then.

[dnbman]

You have to be kiding .

Keetch never kids. He just shoots and spits in the grave.

[dav7z]

Keetch never kids. He just shoots and spits in the grave.

Where did they dig you up from . Havn't seen you in a long time welcome back

[dnbman]

Where did they dig you up from . Havn't seen you in a long time welcome back

Greetings, Dav. I've been floating around. Just not much to talk about until now. Glad to be here!

[SWedd523]

Im willing to bet a 1000 dollars he will be better than Hollins....
All so if this kid gets the start . That 50 could be lost . I don't think 704 is that far off.

First off, I have no doubt that Bismack will have a better career than Hollins. But to expect a double double, when I've already shown the stats for other guys, is downright silly.


How silly? take a look at this: http://bkref.com/tiny/yiktI


17 guys have averaged at least 10 points and 10 rebounds as a rookie.... in the last 30+ years! In other words, only 17 guys out of over 1800 players has done it. Talk about some long odds. And that's before even looking at some of the names on that list... Duncan, Robinson, Bird, Hakeem, O'Neal, etc. All-time greats.

Again, there's nothing wrong with hoping for the best. But to think the super raw, super rough Bismack is going to average a double double as a rookie, is being a bit overly optimistic.


Can he get to that point a couple of years down the line? Possibly. But that's a completely different conversation.

[JamieMcNeill]

I'm willing to bet $50 that Bismack will not average a double-double

I'll double that $50. It's a win-win situation. If Smack does average a double double then the $50 is worth losing, and if he doesn't it doesn't mean he's terrible. I'm with Swedd, he will play sparse minutes early (if not all season) which will prevent a double-double. It would be unwise, in my humble opinion, to push him into too many minutes early, he only played 17 a game in a far inferior league (no offense overseas guys) last year.

PS- What up Swedd?

[spectre]

Hail, hail...the gang's all here!!!


Keetch never kids. He just shoots and spits in the grave.

Quoted for the absolute truth that it is.

First off, we have to hope he actually plays this season. If he does then I imagine a double/double game will be few and far between...much less average.

I DO think he easily has the potential to get to that point. The downside however is that my basis is one freaking charity game. Still, I was hearing the guy couldn't shoot against a chair with no one on the court. Instead I saw a guy who continually got great position in the paint (deep position), he had a soft shot when he wasn't rushing it and he seemed to have a good stroke shooting FTs.

Add that to already being a good shot blocker, competence defending out of the paint (witnessed this in that Jimmer game too),an insane drive and his young age you can't help but get excited about the guy.

[stun704]

First off, I have no doubt that Bismack will have a better career than Hollins. But to expect a double double, when I've already shown the stats for other guys, is downright silly.


How silly? take a look at this: http://bkref.com/tiny/yiktI


17 guys have averaged at least 10 points and 10 rebounds as a rookie.... in the last 30+ years! In other words, only 17 guys out of over 1800 players has done it. Talk about some long odds. And that's before even looking at some of the names on that list... Duncan, Robinson, Bird, Hakeem, O'Neal, etc. All-time greats.

Again, there's nothing wrong with hoping for the best. But to think the super raw, super rough Bismack is going to average a double double as a rookie, is being a bit overly optimistic.


Can he get to that point a couple of years down the line? Possibly. But that's a completely different conversation.

I'm saying if he gets to start, and has starters minutes for the duration of the season, he will average a double double theres absolutely no doubt in my mind. IF we ignore the historical probability and look at what bismack has done at the age 18, against relative to some would say superior talent(nike hoop summit) we would see that Bismack can score over 10 points in limited field goals.

Now I'm looking at two games in particular, seeing as how the stats were very similar I doubt they were flukes, In Jimmers All star game, Bismack put up 13 rebounds, 5 blocks and 10 points, in get this..4 Field goal attempts, on 25 miniutes, if you look at the game bismack was constantly calling for the ball because he had deep position, yet was easily the 5th option on the team, YET EASILY still got 10 points. this is against NBA level talent, plus we forget is that bismack has a solid FT stroke, and will get fouled a lot due to his long arms.

Now Exhibit 2 is the Nike hoop summit, which hes playing against talent his own age whom are widley considered franchise level talent (anthony davis) yet still puts up a triple double
in 28 minuites bismack put up 12 blocks, 11 rebounds, and 12 points, this dude is an aboslute monster.. but get this, he put up those 12 points in 7 FGA, and made 5 of em. sure its a small sample size, but if those 2 games correlate into the real game(being that he was matched up aganst probably the number 1 pick of this years draft yet domiated) I would think theres a good chance Bismack will put up as you put it historic numbers (averaging a double double) If Kwame averaged 8 points last season, I don't see why its so outlandish that Bismack couldn't hover around 10.

[SWedd523]

I watched both games.


And in no way would anybody compare the likes of a 17/18 year old anthony davis or Kenneth Faried to Dwight Howard, Andrew Bogut, Kevin Garnett, Joakim Noah, Andrew Bynum, Al Horford, etc. Completely different style of game and completely different level of competition. I don't know anybody who could honestly use two exhibition games against non NBA talent as a basis to argue that Bismack could do something only 17 other guys have done in the last 30 years.


Here are some other notables from the Hoop Summit:

Anthony Davis--16 points, 10 rebounds, 2 blocks
Austin Rivers--20 points, 2 rebounds, 1 block
Michael Gilchrist--16 points, 5 rebounds, 5 blocks
Mateusz Ponitka--17 points, 4 rebounds



And some from the Jimmer Classic:

Tobias Harris--24 points, 6 rebounds
Kawhi Leonard--24 points, 10 rebounds
Isaiah Thomas--19 points, 8 rebounds (he's 5'9)
Vernon Macklin--18 points, 6 rebounds

Nolan Smith--30 points!, 7 rebounds
Jimmer--27 points, 10 assists, 6 rebounds
Kenneth Faried--23 points, 17 rebounds

[Toocool]

I watched both games.
And in no way would anybody compare the likes of a 17/18 year old anthony davis or Kenneth Faried to Dwight Howard, Andrew Bogut, Kevin Garnett, Joakim Noah, Andrew Bynum, Al Horford, etc. Completely different style of game and completely different level of competition. I don't know anybody who could honestly use two exhibition games against non NBA talent as a basis to argue that Bismack could do something only 17 other guys have done in the last 30 years.


Agreed. Smack will find it far harder to get position on someone like KG or DH, who are far more experienced, and much stronger too. He wont score well or easily in his first few years, definately not until he develops his post game.

[stun704]

Agreed. Smack will find it far harder to get position on someone like KG or DH, who are far more experienced, and much stronger too. He wont score well or easily in his first few years, definately not until he develops his post game.
He won't be playing dwight howards and KG's every night, the C position is incredibly weak compared to any other era. He'll be playing Joel Anthony, Darko Millic, Brook Lopez, David Lee, and Ronny Turiaf, I must say they are all equally intimidating. my point still stands, if Dejaun Blair could average 8 pts a game his rookie season, I see no reason why Bismack couldn't average 10 points as a starter

[stun704]

I watched both games.


And in no way would anybody compare the likes of a 17/18 year old anthony davis or Kenneth Faried to Dwight Howard, Andrew Bogut, Kevin Garnett, Joakim Noah, Andrew Bynum, Al Horford, etc. Completely different style of game and completely different level of competition. I don't know anybody who could honestly use two exhibition games against non NBA talent as a basis to argue that Bismack could do something only 17 other guys have done in the last 30 years.


Here are some other notables from the Hoop Summit:

Anthony Davis--16 points, 10 rebounds, 2 blocks
Austin Rivers--20 points, 2 rebounds, 1 block
Michael Gilchrist--16 points, 5 rebounds, 5 blocks
Mateusz Ponitka--17 points, 4 rebounds



And some from the Jimmer Classic:

Tobias Harris--24 points, 6 rebounds
Kawhi Leonard--24 points, 10 rebounds
Isaiah Thomas--19 points, 8 rebounds (he's 5'9)
Vernon Macklin--18 points, 6 rebounds

Nolan Smith--30 points!, 7 rebounds
Jimmer--27 points, 10 assists, 6 rebounds
Kenneth Faried--23 points, 17 rebounds
Bismack easily had the most impressive statline from the Nike Hoop Summit, and my point was that he still scored over 10 points despite limited touches.

[Toocool]

He won't be playing dwight howards and KG's every night, the C position is incredibly weak compared to any other era. He'll be playing Joel Anthony, Darko Millic, Brook Lopez, David Lee, and Ronny Turiaf, I must say they are all equally intimidating. my point still stands, if Dejaun Blair could average 8 pts a game his rookie season, I see no reason why Bismack couldn't average 10 points as a starter

Don't underestimate any of those players. They maybe crap in everything, but most of them are strong solid post defenders. Of course you have the guys who can't defend the post well, but they're far bigger bodies, mature and honed with experience. I'm 5'8, and I've had to back down my 6'2 friend in the post, who's bigger, stronger, faster. It's no easy task whatsoever.

You also have to take into account DeJuan Blair is far more polished than Smack.

[stun704]

Don't underestimate any of those players. They maybe crap in everything, but most of them are strong solid post defenders. Of course you have the guys who can't defend the post well, but they're far bigger bodies, mature and honed with experience. I'm 5'8, and I've had to back down my 6'2 friend in the post, who's bigger, stronger, faster. It's no easy task whatsoever.

You also have to take into account DeJuan Blair is far more polished than Smack. I think this is where the disagreement lies, I don't think Bismack is that unpolished, infact the only time hes shown from footage i seen where he looked offensive anemic was when "he played one on none and lost" when scouts were watching him play before the draft. and how is rookie blair more polished then bismack? from watching his higlights.. his highlights... they were all rebounded put backs or dunks

btw: hes been working on his post moves all off-season so maybe hes further along in his development then you guys expect

[Toocool]

I think this is where the disagreement lies, I don't think Bismack is that unpolished, infact the only time hes shown from footage i seen where he looked offensive anemic was when "he played one on none and lost" when scouts were watching him play before the draft. and how is rookie blair more polished then bismack? from watching his higlights.. his highlights... they were all rebounded put backs or dunks

btw: hes been working on his post moves all off-season so maybe hes further along in his development then you guys expect

You ever seen his European games? It shows how unpolished he is. Turnovers, missed easy shots, limited post moves. Yes, he has been working which means he has improved. It takes more than a few months to actually develop a post game, to develop the consistency to hit hook shot after hook shot from different distances. To hit fadeaway after fadeaway. Don't think that he learnt from the off-season off Marc Jackson and he magically turns into Hakeem. It takes time to develop. To me, I expect nothing against the highest level of play there is. I don't understand what you're trying to argue? That he's polished? Because its clear that he certainly ain't.

Ever seen what highlights are? Exactly that. Flashy crap. Any highlight reel can make someone look good.

[Keetch]

When I went to Bobcats games back then; Ryan was the guy I enjoyed watching the most. Well him and Raja Bell.

This year appears similar. Its okay to be bad; just so long as you're bad ass. In a nice; happy and community-oriented way that the customers can enjoy with the family.

[spectre]

When I went to Bobcats games back then; Ryan was the guy I enjoyed watching the most. Well him and Raja Bell.

This year appears similar. Its okay to be bad; just so long as you're bad ass. In a nice; happy and community-oriented way that the customers can enjoy with the family.

Nice. Added to the sig for some posterity.

[spectre]

Seriously Stun, you should want everyone to have low expectations for the guy if you're that sure of him. The main thing is most of us have high hopes for Smack and we all recognize he's just turned 19. We have a GREAT big man coach to help him along (huge reason why he really needs to be here this season) and with the glut at the 4 we have...assuming we'll utilize most of them at the 5 as welll...he can come along at a fairly easy pace.

Be happy!

[dav7z]

Seriously Stun, you should want everyone to have low expectations for the guy if you're that sure of him. The main thing is most of us have high hopes for Smack and we all recognize he's just turned 19. We have a GREAT big man coach to help him along (huge reason why he really needs to be here this season) and with the glut at the 4 we have...assuming we'll utilize most of them at the 5 as welll...he can come along at a fairly easy pace.

Be happy!
Hold it a second Spectre , Do you want Kemba brought along as slow as DJ was with Felton . Or Felton broght along slow behind BK . Im sure i heard you say turn the rings over to the fucture. Don't start the past?
2nd SMACK isn;t just a big and in a rotation with TT, DIAW, DIOP, KB. . SMACK is a center . He dosn't have the jumper to play p/f. TT said hes all ready OK50 strong. That statement puts him in the top five in centers in the league as far as strenth. You guys make 10 blocks in the nike summit sound like aau ball . So why would you guys not start the kid . Give him experiance as quickly as possable. OK50 best year was his first , Howard started, Paul , D, Williams and on . KB isn't long term core . The kid gets nothing but experiance. The fans get to see what they paying for fucture hope not old past. I all ways hated watching Felton sit on the pine behind BK.
704 comes up with some very good reasons for starting the kid. He all so has very good points why he would average a dubble dubble. Now i agree he may not average those numbers but at worst his numbers will be better than KB. Like 704 said 10 points and 10 boards isn't out of the question IF the kid is starting.
TOOCOOL what happened to you ?? You was on my side . Spectre you to ? Don't you trust CHO ? Thats why i wanted you in this thread reinforcements ?? LOL

[spectre]

Totally different Dav. I think Kemba is pretty close to NBA ready now. Sure there'll be growing pains, but he's played big minutes in big situations. Smack on the other hand hasn't touched the competition he's getting ready to face...plus he really is pretty raw. I expect a LOT of foul trouble.

I think he's a C too, but playing the 4/5 by committee isn't a bad thing. Defensively each just take the best matchup; on O Boris would still go "high", pulling his guy out (to facillitate/allowing Kemba to drive) and Smack will range more underneath...continuing to learn how to get stellar position in the low post.

[spectre]

Fact of the matter is Smack just isn't NBA ready right now...he's a freaking kid who's never played near the type of competition he's about to face.

I'm extremely high on the guy, but we have to have a realistic view here. He's a project with potentially a very high ceiling. Let Silas nurture him as he sees fit. If he can handle the competition I'm sure coach will give him the PT.

[dav7z]

Fact of the matter is Smack just isn't NBA ready right now...he's a freaking kid who's never played near the type of competition he's about to face.

I'm extremely high on the guy, but we have to have a realistic view here. He's a project with potentially a very high ceiling. Let Silas nurture him as he sees fit. If he can handle the competition I'm sure coach will give him the PT.

You have to come back with logical reply is kinda killing my come back . OK then why not start SMACK til or if he gets into foul truble to give him that experiance you claim he needs . Why play Doris when hes gone next season for sure. Why not give him his 10ppg 10 boards 10 blocks and his10 fouls.

[spectre]

Someone has to help these players "play the right way". Whether you agreed with Larry's mantra or not...we're very young and we just added one of the biggest black holes in the game in Bad Porn. Kemba is already being labeled a SG in a PG's body; we don't want him getting into the GS 7 seconds or less frame of mind. Boris will promote ball movement and passing.

Hell, without Boris playing I don't know that Smack would ever see the ball on the O end.

Starting him right off? Eh, we don't want him getting discouraged by getting into foul trouble 30 seconds after the game starts night in/night out. I think it'd be better to kind of ease him in.

[dav7z]

Someone has to help these players "play the right way". Whether you agreed with Larry's mantra or not...we're very young and we just added one of the biggest black holes in the game in Bad Porn. Kemba is already being labeled a SG in a PG's body; we don't want him getting into the GS 7 seconds or less frame of mind. Boris will promote ball movement and passing.

Hell, without Boris playing I don't know that Smack would ever see the ball on the O end.

Starting him right off? Eh, we don't want him getting discouraged by getting into foul trouble 30 seconds after the game starts night in/night out. I think it'd be better to kind of ease him in.

OMG are you turning into LB. Hes the one who killed DJs confidence. Are you wanting to kill SMACKSs confidence puting him on the bench . When we don't even have a decent center on the roster. At least at point DJ would be true compitition. Boris should only play against small centers who trys to spread the floor. If KB comes back then i could see it being a harder desision for Salis.

[davcbow]

Fact of the matter is Smack just isn't NBA ready right now...he's a freaking kid who's never played near the type of competition he's about to face.

I'm extremely high on the guy, but we have to have a realistic view here. He's a project with potentially a very high ceiling. Let Silas nurture him as he sees fit. If he can handle the competition I'm sure coach will give him the PT.


Regardless what either of you guys say Silas will do what he sees fit. Doris is getting older and fatter but yes Smack is young and untested in the NBA. So I see Silas doing what he thinks best in this case.. Just my 2 cents.. :)

[TheBeagle]

dav, I love you, bud, but no way does Biz start this season, and not right off the bat by any means. I put my trust in Silas, but I'd put him 3rd in the depth chart at both 4 and 5.

[spectre]

OMG are you turning into LB. Hes the one who killed DJs confidence. Are you wanting to kill SMACKSs confidence puting him on the bench . When we don't even have a decent center on the roster. At least at point DJ would be true compitition. Boris should only play against small centers who trys to spread the floor. If KB comes back then i could see it being a harder desision for Salis.

LOL!

Hey, I have nothing against LB. Jordan should have went to LB offering to release him out of his contract when he decided to let the talent we'd been acquiring using Bob Johnson's money go. LB builds up decent teams from crap and he did that here. It's Jordan's fault 100% on why him leaving/beginning of last season went the way it did.

Don't you remember when we were the No. 1 defense in the league? I certainly do.

At PG we're talking the leader on the court most times. He has to be strong and confident in himself and his mates. If a guy wilts when he's in competition for minutes with Flip Murrray then then I don't think he fits the bill regardless.

A recruiter trying to get me to join up out of school told me about all the hell and stupid shit they make you go thru in boot camp. Buckets on the head repeating lines, chasing each other around in the barracks on your knees. The reason he said they do that is to determine if you can deal with adversity; they'd much rather find it out then instead of in a foxhole.

If a PG or any other player has to have a coach to continually kiss his ass and fluff his pillow most likely he won't be leading shit to the promised land.

[dav7z]

LOL!

Hey, I have nothing against LB. Jordan should have went to LB offering to release him out of his contract when he decided to let the talent we'd been acquiring using Bob Johnson's money go. LB builds up decent teams from crap and he did that here. It's Jordan's fault 100% on why him leaving/beginning of last season went the way it did.

Don't you remember when we were the No. 1 defense in the league? I certainly do.

At PG we're talking the leader on the court most times. He has to be strong and confident in himself and his mates. If a guy wilts when he's in competition for minutes with Flip Murrray then then I don't think he fits the bill regardless.

A recruiter trying to get me to join up out of school told me about all the hell and stupid shit they make you go thru in boot camp. Buckets on the head repeating lines, chasing each other around in the barracks on your knees. The reason he said they do that is to determine if you can deal with adversity; they'd much rather find it out then instead of in a foxhole.

If a PG or any other player has to have a coach to continually kiss his ass and fluff his pillow most likely he won't be leading shit to the promised land.
SOME ONE ,, just change his avatar to[ IN Larry Brown I trust].and give him his sucker back.. PLEASE
Beagle you old bearded dog you , How could SMACK be third on on the debth chart at center . Hell we don't have but one other center and thats DIOP . So the ball boy is 2nd string on the debth chart . HA

[Toocool]

To be honest Dav, I wasn't 100% sure what I was arguing back there.
Stun was trying to say as if BB is polished? That's what I was kind of assuming, and then I was simply saying he wasn't polished.

As for BB starting, I would say why the hell not. We're going to lose a crapload and *cough tank cough*, why not lose with him getting some minutes before he fouls out.

[dnbman]

I say we go Kemba and Smack 2 on 5 for the whole season. We'd easily become the most popular team, and if we won one game, everybody would love us.

[dav7z]

I say we go Kemba and Smack 2 on 5 for the whole season. We'd easily become the most popular team, and if we won one game, everybody would love us.

Damn good post whos the man now , Spectre and Sweed ?

[dav7z]

To be honest Dav, I wasn't 100% sure what I was arguing back there.
Stun was trying to say as if BB is polished? That's what I was kind of assuming, and then I was simply saying he wasn't polished.

As for BB starting, I would say why the hell not. We're going to lose a crapload and *cough tank cough*, why not lose with him getting some minutes before he fouls out.
Toocool just playing around with you guys while taking my Demoral and floating in the sky . My friggin segery didn't work i had two months ago . So i get to have a total knee replacment for a christmas present, So if thease post come out looking to stupid just look over them

[SWedd523]

Damn good post whos the man now , Spectre and Sweed ?

Dav, it seems like you think I'm saying Bismack is garbage and won't ever be a good player. I think Bismack has more star potential than anybody else on the roster. If he fulfills his potential, then he's going to be one of the best defenders (and big men) in the league.



I just don't think there's any chance he'll do be that good as a rookie. It really just doesn't ever happen that much. Not even for polished big men.

[Toocool]

Toocool just playing around with you guys while taking my Demoral and floating in the sky . My friggin segery didn't work i had two months ago . So i get to have a total knee replacment for a christmas present, So if thease post come out looking to stupid just look over them

Ahh BL mate =/.
At least you're getting a new knee, my knees are pretty dodgy, as well as my shooting elbow.

[dav7z]

Dav, it seems like you think I'm saying Bismack is garbage and won't ever be a good player. I think Bismack has more star potential than anybody else on the roster. If he fulfills his potential, then he's going to be one of the best defenders (and big men) in the league.



I just don't think there's any chance he'll do be that good as a rookie. It really just doesn't ever happen that much. Not even for polished big men.

Just having a good time . Playing around with some super nice people , REALLY my expectations is not as high as you think right now. Though they might be higher than yours.
I think he has more than likely more up side than any player in this draft. Agreeded he unpolished , Needs lots of offensive work. Knowing where to be and what to do is going to be a learning curve on that side of the ball. Im sure hes going to look lost quite a few times on that side of the ball.
Baring foul truble i think hes going to come into the league a beast on the defencive side of the ball, Whitch might give him extended playing time . I expect Salis at the start of the season trying to play him 15 to 20 mins a game . Depending on what KB does . He tends to get fouls all so. Smack is a very quick study CHO said. By season end its possable he could log 30plus mins per game. Depending how quick he picks things up.
But this is and has been a very fun thread.

[docend24]

I agree that there are rawness and contract question associated with Bismack plus his position tends to have some learning curve not even mentioning him coming from European style of ball. That all is just another reason why Cho orchestrated marvellous move as Bismack is not the most likely the guy to have immediate impact thus not hampering our draft chances this year.