NBA Big 3s

[akaseinfeld]

Just wanted to get everyone's opinons on the way the NBA seems to be heading, with the Superstars migrating to the large market teams (Big 3s). With Chris Paul's agent saying he wants to be traded to the knicks, and Carmelo last year, the Big 3 in Miami (although they didn't force their way out), is the NBA headed towards 3-4 "Super Teams" that matter while all the other bottom dwellers just play for fun? What happened to honoring contracts? Will the NBA lose fans after the lockout, and superstars trying to form their on NBA 2k12 teams? Will small market teams survive? Is contraction possible?

[Chef]

this is really nothing new. the stars have moved to the big markets from the inception of the league. it will be imperative for small market teams that do draft a superstar to carefully manage their cap and build a championship team around the stars so they have less incentive to leave.

if you were paul or howard wouldn't you want to leave their teams? i sure would.

[dav7z]

The CBA said competive balance.
But the Bulls have all ready said the willing to go over the new cap.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/basketball/bulls/chi-luxury-tax-wouldnt-preclude-bulls-bid-for-key-addition-20111130,0,1108002.story

[akaseinfeld]

I don't know I guess it is just frustrating as a fan to watch players and owners fight it out over Millions of dollars, and then watch players try to force them selves out of situations before their contracts are up. At this rate the Bobcats will never be competitive.

[Chef]

I don't know I guess it is just frustrating as a fan to watch players and owners fight it out over Millions of dollars, and then watch players try to force them selves out of situations before their contracts are up. At this rate the Bobcats will never be competitive.

have faith. it only takes 1 draft pick to be that of a superstar and you are all of a sudden a possible FA destination, if you don't screw up your payroll.

[Proudiddy]

This thread was just on time...

So much for Paul having any loyalty to Jordan or his homsetate...


The agent for Chris Paul has asked the team to trade his client to the New York Knicks.

The agent informed Dell Demps, the Hornets’ general manager, that Paul is interested in being part of an extend-and-trade deal with the Knicks, who are in the market for a third superstar to complement A’mare Stoudemire and Carmelo Anthony.

As soon as the NBA lifts its lockout restrictions, Demps wants to meet with Paul and hear that directive from him.

Read more: http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/216918/Paul_Wont_Sign_Extension_Requests_Trade_To_Knicks# ixzz1fK27XFqq

This just pisses me off. If it keeps up at this rate, I may give up on the NBA. Sure, teams back in the day may have had two, and very rarely sometimes 3 superstars, but that was often a result of good drafting or teams signing stars past their prime... This deal with top, elite-level players forcing teams to trade them to other star-filled teams is getting old. I don't watch professional sports to pull for big market teams. I'm watching them for MY team to be successful.

[ChuckHayes69]

I agree with the sentiment that it sucks. For a small market team to compete you really have to land a superstar or two in the draft and then put together complimentary pieces around them quick before they force their way out. People use San Antonio as an example but look at their luck....they miss the playoffs twice and hit on David Robinson and Tim Duncan. It looks like it takes that kind of luck plus some for the Bobcats to contend for a championship.

[Icky Thump]

Nothing changed in the cba or the NBA....Same Ol' Same Ol'...

http://www.bobcatsplanet.com/vb/showthread.php?12947-Let-The-Creaming-Of-The-Pants-Commence&p=200982#post200982

[Boomer]

have faith. it only takes 1 draft pick to be that of a superstar and you are all of a sudden a possible FA destination, if you don't screw up your payroll.


This. Teams that have good players are going to spend more money b/c they think they can win, just the way it works but spending $$$ doesn't necessarily cause the winning. We just need to draft right and be smart. I'm convinced we're not going to see all these superteams being the trend really because somebody is going to have to take a paycut...is it going to be CP3? Does he want to give up $40 mil to play in NYC?

[davcbow]

I wouldnt move to NY if they offered me a golden chariot filled with billions of $$... I hate big market teams... they dont earn their wins by rebuilding through the draft, they go around and rob players from the teams that drafted them... Im about to get turned off by the way the NBA works, I mean whats the point?

[akaseinfeld]

^I'm going that way as well. After the lockout and everything else, these stars forcing their way out to play in big markets is just killing my fanhood. I just don't see how the Bobcats can hope to get a superstar via the draft. The NBA isn't the NFL where the worst teams get the best picks, we have the lottery system which is supposed to be fair, but it is almost a guarantee the Bobcats will never win that (especially if a Big Market team finds itself in the lottery).

I mean I can see where the players are coming from a little, if they don't want to play for a horrible franchise. But what is wrong with playing out your contract and signing your Million dollar contract with the team you want to play for as a free agent. I mean what about the normal fan that is paying $50 to come watch a sucky team to see their superstar player?

[bes628]

Its a arms race man. I don't really get the whole "Let's draft a superstar" thing. The chances of a draft pick busting is way higher than, us finding a superstar. Meanwhile, we make no moves to sign players we already know are at least good. Idk, I guess overall I do get it, but just skeptical on the results. Still love the team though and Coach Silas.

[adam187]

Against my nature as a Bobcat's fan, I'm going to try to bring a little bit of optimism to this discussion. First of all, the Chris Paul to the Knicks rumors have been discredited. Read this story:

http://espn.go.com/new-york/nba/story/_/id/7306176/source-chris-paul-knows-new-york-knicks-lack-trade-assets

Paul is not forcing his way out. Just because Carmelo did that (not even a "superstar" player I would want on my team anyways), does not mean all the other big name players want to do that. And even though Lebron joined Wade in Miami, I don't think you can find much fault in that, other than the egregious manner with which he proclaimed his decision. Cleveland certainly mishandled his situation, bu even still, got plenty of good years of high level competing and the franchise is now more valuable as a whole, and actually doing quite well as far as its rebuild goes. And it's not like Lebron got off completely free - his legacy will always be tarnished because of his choice to leave rather than stick it out.

There are plenty of small market teams that are competing now or in the recent past. People always discuss San Antonio and OKC, and rightly, but you can also look at Memphis, which I'm expecting big things out of this year. Orlando has also found itself in good positions, both with big drafts and also bringing in some good free agents for years. Detroit has only recently come down from a period of good basketball and Indiana, if not for the brawl, would likely have been a very good team for much of the past decade. Unlucky health issues have hurt Portland, but even still they have a very good team. The Jazz and Nuggets have and may still make good runs, with or without their big name guys. And if you look back on the history of the league, New York was a joke until last year, the Celtics sucked for pretty much my entire childhood, even the Lakers were terrible on NBA Jam. And the Clippers still kind of suck.

In my opinion, this whole "superstars" thing is just getting blown out of proportion nowadays because of the 24 hour news cycle and internet speculation, which has really reached unprecedented levels. Players go to teams based on a combination of salary, exposure/endorsements, teammate quality, franchise/gm/coach reputation, schools for their kids, weather, being close to family, and god knows what else; honestly it's the same now as it's always been, that core stuff is not changing. The Bobcats can become a premier destination for free agents by freeing up cap space, drafting quality players, making the right choices within the organization for coaching staff, scouts, and general manager, and by being willing to spend money when the time comes.

First and foremost, the Bobcats, and us as fans, need to stop making excuses about the system and look at the ways the organization can fix itself. Not saying you guys are wrong to be annoyed about the way certain star players have acted these past couple of years, that is fine, I'm just as annoyed by that stuff, just don't blame that solely on why the Bobcats suck.

Hope that all makes some sense and stayed somewhat relevant.

[adam187]

also sorry if i killed the thread with that massive post. feel free to ignore.

[teej]

+1, Adam, well stated.

If you're going to sit and bitch and moan about the big markets, think about this: when it comes to the Bobcats, and each major turning point, pretty much each one has gone wrong. When the best player in franchise history (out of 7 first round picks, including 5 in the Top 10) is an expansion pick, you've been a fuck up as a franchise. Bad luck, bad decisions, or both, doesn't matter. As far as outcomes, you're hard-pressed to find any other team that's been as much of a disaster as the first ownership of this team.

And with all that, somehow they managed a playoff berth two seasons ago and now have two rookies from the lottery, along with a super-young team. And flexibility. And no, I'm not trying to sell you the party line. As long as the law of averages sorts itself out and MJ, Higgins, Cho, Silas and Lil' Silas make the right calls and some luck falls our way, then there won't be nearly as much reason to cry like Chris Bosh when you lose out.

[Toocool]

+1, Adam, well stated.

If you're going to sit and bitch and moan about the big markets, think about this: when it comes to the Bobcats, and each major turning point, pretty much each one has gone wrong. When the best player in franchise history (out of 7 first round picks, including 5 in the Top 10) is an expansion pick, you've been a fuck up as a franchise. Bad luck, bad decisions, or both, doesn't matter. As far as outcomes, you're hard-pressed to find any other team that's been as much of a disaster as the first ownership of this team.

And with all that, somehow they managed a playoff berth two seasons ago and now have two rookies from the lottery, along with a super-young team. And flexibility. And no, I'm not trying to sell you the party line. As long as the law of averages sorts itself out and MJ, Higgins, Cho, Silas and Lil' Silas make the right calls and some luck falls our way, then there won't be nearly as much reason to cry like Chris Bosh when you lose out.

It helps that Cho knows what the hell he's doing. I think with Cho as GM our team got a lot more stable in terms of draft picks and so on. Bringing in a project big man is a risk yet, but if it pays off will make Cho a genius. And grabbing Walker was icing on the cake.

[spectre]

+1, Adam, well stated.

If you're going to sit and bitch and moan about the big markets, think about this: when it comes to the Bobcats, and each major turning point, pretty much each one has gone wrong. When the best player in franchise history (out of 7 first round picks, including 5 in the Top 10) is an expansion pick, you've been a fuck up as a franchise. Bad luck, bad decisions, or both, doesn't matter. As far as outcomes, you're hard-pressed to find any other team that's been as much of a disaster as the first ownership of this team.

When you actually stop and start listing all the dumbass things we've done in our short existence it's astounding how badly we've screwed the pooch. I don't think if a person intentionally tried to sabotage a franchise they would have done so badly.

If you just look at the draft we've made the wrong move many more times than not. Sure it's a Monday morning thing...but damn, almost every time?

[SWedd523]

The draft is all mostly a crapshoot. Sure we've made a bunch of bad decisions, but other teams would make them too. The guys we took just didn't pan out. I'd like to think we're due for a home run though, so we'll just have to see.

[TheBeagle]

Against my nature as a Bobcat's fan, I'm going to try to bring a little bit of optimism to this discussion. First of all, the Chris Paul to the Knicks rumors have been discredited. Read this story:

http://espn.go.com/new-york/nba/story/_/id/7306176/source-chris-paul-knows-new-york-knicks-lack-trade-assets

Paul is not forcing his way out. Just because Carmelo did that (not even a "superstar" player I would want on my team anyways), does not mean all the other big name players want to do that. And even though Lebron joined Wade in Miami, I don't think you can find much fault in that, other than the egregious manner with which he proclaimed his decision. Cleveland certainly mishandled his situation, bu even still, got plenty of good years of high level competing and the franchise is now more valuable as a whole, and actually doing quite well as far as its rebuild goes. And it's not like Lebron got off completely free - his legacy will always be tarnished because of his choice to leave rather than stick it out.

There are plenty of small market teams that are competing now or in the recent past. People always discuss San Antonio and OKC, and rightly, but you can also look at Memphis, which I'm expecting big things out of this year. Orlando has also found itself in good positions, both with big drafts and also bringing in some good free agents for years. Detroit has only recently come down from a period of good basketball and Indiana, if not for the brawl, would likely have been a very good team for much of the past decade. Unlucky health issues have hurt Portland, but even still they have a very good team. The Jazz and Nuggets have and may still make good runs, with or without their big name guys. And if you look back on the history of the league, New York was a joke until last year, the Celtics sucked for pretty much my entire childhood, even the Lakers were terrible on NBA Jam. And the Clippers still kind of suck.

In my opinion, this whole "superstars" thing is just getting blown out of proportion nowadays because of the 24 hour news cycle and internet speculation, which has really reached unprecedented levels. Players go to teams based on a combination of salary, exposure/endorsements, teammate quality, franchise/gm/coach reputation, schools for their kids, weather, being close to family, and god knows what else; honestly it's the same now as it's always been, that core stuff is not changing. The Bobcats can become a premier destination for free agents by freeing up cap space, drafting quality players, making the right choices within the organization for coaching staff, scouts, and general manager, and by being willing to spend money when the time comes.

First and foremost, the Bobcats, and us as fans, need to stop making excuses about the system and look at the ways the organization can fix itself. Not saying you guys are wrong to be annoyed about the way certain star players have acted these past couple of years, that is fine, I'm just as annoyed by that stuff, just don't blame that solely on why the Bobcats suck.

Hope that all makes some sense and stayed somewhat relevant. Good stuff! These are my sentiments exactly and probably better expressed than my post in the lockout thread where I said something similar. The whole "superstar" and "big market" discussion is something akin to an urban legend, IMO. Hell, the biggest star to move teams in 20 years (or close to it, Shaq in '96), Lebron, went to a town whose sports fanbase is maybe the most apathetic in the country. Out of any of the movement we've seen over the last couple years, only Carmelo's seems to be the most egregious, yet he has family there, so it's not like his only motive was to play in a big market. And with Boston, that place was a basketball wasteland until a couple trades and a good draft pick in Rondo. None of the "Big 4" technically chose to play there (KG okayed the trade).

As our owner said, players win championships, and it takes a well-run organization and some draft day luck to get players; location, by and large, has nothing to do with it.

[Keetch]

I don't think anyone can deny there are "big" market benefits in the NBA; mostly due to revenue and player-marketability discrepancies.

We've been over this before. Saying that; bad big market management can still be persistently bad, while good small market management can (hopefully) provide great entertainment value and be reasonably successful.

Still Chris Paul has been highly entertaining in NO, but somehow some way; he's going to NY. Dwight Howard will be a Laker.

So instead of getting annoyed about it this year I've decided to embrace the situation by taking on two equally favorite teams, one big, one small. For me; it's the Bobcats and the Knicks. Go Knicks! I'm really hoping there's a way we can get Chris Paul sooner rather than later. He's so much better than Billups!

[Keetch]

There's two NBA conferences and they ain't East and West. The Heat and Lakers are dominating one at the moment. The Thunder and Grizzlies dominate the other (which is the one the Bobcats play in).

[SWedd523]

While the Heat may not be a "big" market, there are a ton of things working in that City's favor. Climate, taxes, girls, night life, etc.

[Wolfpackbobcat]

The NBA needs a hard cap. Period. Without it, small market teams winning a title will be a rarity. Also if players want to demand where they are traded to, the NBA needs to get rid of guaranteed contracts. If all hell breaks loose, a team should be able to cut the diva and not have to pay the whole contract. Just like the NFL.

[TheBeagle]

While the Heat may not be a "big" market, there are a ton of things working in that City's favor. Climate, taxes, girls, night life, etc. True, but it has only been a destination for players when:

1. Zo was TRADED there
2. D-Wade was DRAFTED

And even in these cases there were major lulls and "small market" talent before and even during these two instances. That's not saying a whole lot for a team that's been in luxurious South Beach for 24 years.

[SWedd523]

You also need to account for the fact that the collective competitive nature has changed in this generation compared to the last. Last decade, most players honored their contracts and didn't demand movement like they do now. This is the first time where players have started holding their franchises hostage. Imagine how the Nuggets would have reacted in the 90s if they had another "Melo Drama". the 90s Cavs would NOT have welcomed LeBron and the Heat with open arms, they'd have put his ass on the floor all night long.

[Chef]

the 90s Cavs would NOT have welcomed LeBron and the Heat with open arms, they'd have put his ass on the floor all night long.

a prime example of how aau is ruining basketball

[dav7z]

If NY is able to add CP3 with no trade pieces at all. And all ready have three players making around 45milion .That Will show me the new CBA isn't worth the paper it's on. And the whole league will have lost my instrest. I can't support a league thet allows only a few teams to be competative. Why pay and pull for our local team when it's no chance of winning a championship. Football has found a way to have balance and its ratings is through the roof. In the NFL you don't hear of small and large markets defining talent.

[bozzy]

Now the Lakers are trying to get Paul and Howard.

[Chef]

If NY is able to add CP3 with no trade pieces at all. And all ready have three players making around 45milion .That Will show me the new CBA isn't worth the paper it's on. And the whole league will have lost my instrest. I can't support a league thet allows only a few teams to be competative. Why pay and pull for our local team when it's no chance of winning a championship. Football has found a way to have balance and its ratings is through the roof. In the NFL you don't hear of small and large markets defining talent.

new york won't be getting either via trade and have very little chance in FA. a package of billups expiring, landry fields and a very distant 1st won't get it done. for either howard or paul and with both teams looking to deal before the season starts (or at the very least season's end) they won't be able to sign one via free agency.

the lakers on the other hand will be able and probably will get one of the two. here are the two best trade scenarios i could up with for them to get both:

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=77mmxnv

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=7wa7p5q

or if orlando wanted to amnesty arenas it could be bynum, odom for howard and turk. and of course the NO deals would be with the understanding that both fish and walton retire.

of course draft picks could be added and if either NO or Orl went for vets other teams like us could get involved with junk contracts like tyrus, mags etc but I bet they would go more low salary/rebuild by passing on bynum, odom and gasol. the only way they get both is if they both publicly say they will only resign with LA.

i would like to have seen the CBA not allow teams with huge payrolls like LA the chance to parlay their highly paid veteran roster into highly paid all nba players in their primes. but the only way to do that was with a semi or full future hard cap and that was a non starter with the players union.

i hate the lakers but a core of cp3, kobe, howard would be something to see. it would be interesting to see if kobe give up ball control to the extent that it would have to be done to let cp3 run the show. if he could, he would extend the tail end of his peak years for another 5 years or so.

[dav7z]

I have no instrest at all in seeing the Lakers on tour. I pay for season seats to see good close competive basketball games. If a league owned team folds to player hostage . Regular teams in small markets has no chance at all. It looks like the additional luxery tax is no more than a slap on the wrist for large markets. Another exanple of the rich getting richer.

[Icky Thump]

Can only point it out so many times... same ol' same ol'. This is partly what the big hold up in the cba was over.. nothing got changed on the competitive issues and they'll continue with the small market teams struggling with money down the road I'm willing to bet on it.

[TheBeagle]

Geez, guys, the CBA was only ever going to do so much in terms of competitive balance. Anyone who thought it was going to be like waving a magic wand and starting everything from scratch with all teams being equal was, I hate to say, deluding themselves. I genuinely, and not at all in a condescending way, feel bad for those of y'all who thought this thing was going to be something close to a panacea.
I think the small market teams got pretty much all they wanted with the deal, namely money. If not turning a profit, small market teams will not be hemorraghing money as they have the last few years, which was ultimately what the lockout was about. The league gave lip service to competitive balance, and I think some things are in place to allow it to a better degree, but the hundreds of millions of losses from the small market teams was the biggest concern, and the new CBA went a long way to improving that.

Also, it just seems kind of weird for Bobcats fans to be complaining about competitive balance. I mean, not only have we never lost, or be in the process of losing a star, we've never even had a star thanks to countless poor drafts. Similarly, we've never put ourselves in position to go after big talent because of bonehead trades that destroyed our salary cap (Re: trading Walter for Nazr, among many others, of course.) For our team, as an organization, how can we complain about the state of the NBA, when the true culprit for our competitive imbalance has always been management?

[dav7z]

Geez, guys, the CBA was only ever going to do so much in terms of competitive balance. Anyone who thought it was going to be like waving a magic wand and starting everything from scratch with all teams being equal was, I hate to say, deluding themselves. I genuinely, and not at all in a condescending way, feel bad for those of y'all who thought this thing was going to be something close to a panacea.
I think the small market teams got pretty much all they wanted with the deal, namely money. If not turning a profit, small market teams will not be hemorraghing money as they have the last few years, which was ultimately what the lockout was about. The league gave lip service to competitive balance, and I think some things are in place to allow it to a better degree, but the hundreds of millions of losses from the small market teams was the biggest concern, and the new CBA went a long way to improving that.

Also, it just seems kind of weird for Bobcats fans to be complaining about competitive balance. I mean, not only have we never lost, or be in the process of losing a star, we've never even had a star thanks to countless poor drafts. Similarly, we've never put ourselves in position to go after big talent because of bonehead trades that destroyed our salary cap (Re: trading Walter for Nazr, among many others, of course.) For our team, as an organization, how can we complain about the state of the NBA, when the true culprit for our competitive imbalance has always been management?

Much of your statment i agree with . Mostly the part about our management. In the new cba agreement what has been done to help the small market teams beside luxery tax penaltys.?
Is thair any additional money going to the small market?

[dnbman]

Beagle, you have no right to stop me from blaming somebody else!

Yeah, we need to make better decisions if we want to win. That, or get lucky with the draft. The odds currently are in our favor.

[Icky Thump]

Beagle, you have no right to stop me from blaming somebody else!

Yeah, we need to make better decisions if we want to win. That, or get lucky with the draft. The odds currently are in our favor.


Geez, guys, the CBA was only ever going to do so much in terms of competitive balance. Anyone who thought it was going to be like waving a magic wand and starting everything from scratch with all teams being equal was, I hate to say, deluding themselves. I genuinely, and not at all in a condescending way, feel bad for those of y'all who thought this thing was going to be something close to a panacea.
I think the small market teams got pretty much all they wanted with the deal, namely money. If not turning a profit, small market teams will not be hemorraghing money as they have the last few years, which was ultimately what the lockout was about. The league gave lip service to competitive balance, and I think some things are in place to allow it to a better degree, but the hundreds of millions of losses from the small market teams was the biggest concern, and the new CBA went a long way to improving that.

Also, it just seems kind of weird for Bobcats fans to be complaining about competitive balance. I mean, not only have we never lost, or be in the process of losing a star, we've never even had a star thanks to countless poor drafts. Similarly, we've never put ourselves in position to go after big talent because of bonehead trades that destroyed our salary cap (Re: trading Walter for Nazr, among many others, of course.) For our team, as an organization, how can we complain about the state of the NBA, when the true culprit for our competitive imbalance has always been management?



That's the thing. Imagine if we had drafted Howard instead of Okafor.... we'd be beyond pissed right now with him wanting out. Even if small market teams get lucky and draft a star (Mello, Lebron, Howard, Paul, etc.) they have little to no chance in keeping the player. And it's getting worse now with these guys forcing trades and attempting to create all-star squads.

Yes I agree Bobcat management has been poor throughout. The draft thing has been a crapshoot but the simple fact is that the small market teams are left signing risky/mediocre players to risky/bad contracts because that's the real options they are left with year in and year out and no one can really deny that fact. Eventually taking on those bad/risky players and bad/risky contracts, taking risks in the draft, having your better players bolt for bigger markets... of course the teams are going to struggle.

Guess I just don't feel real confident with the system even if we are able get things going.

[tondi]

On the bright side, it appears that most of the cities of choice for players either already have their superstars of choice or will be getting them very shortly. If you are talking 5-6 cities with 2 superstars per team then that leaves everyone else for the rest of us. Hopefully more guys who will be at this level are in the pipeline so everyone else has a shot at a superstar. The preferred cities can only handle so many.

[akaseinfeld]

Well here is the first step to the Lakers big 3.

WojYahooNBA (https://twitter.com/#%21/WojYahooNBA) Adrian Wojnarowski



Correction: The proposed deal to the Lakers is Chris Paul for Pau Gasol and Lamar Odom, source says.

Hornets are informing other teams that they are doing that trade.

Guessing LA will send Bynum, etc to Magic.

[TheBeagle]

dav: I was thinking about the BRI. I admit I'm not hip to all the numbers and legalese, but from what analysts I've heard say, the new BRI 50/50 or around that will as opposed to players with 58, will bring in significant money to owners. I may be wrong and am definitely willing to concede it if I'm told otherwise.


dnb: totally agree with the odds being in our favor...I'm clinging to it.


Icky: I understand your stance, and it likely would be happening to us, but we don't know for sure. If we were a well run organization and had wound up with Howard, who's to say we wouldn't have a conference title or two (heck, maybe a title) by now, and be a destination? I'm very skeptical of the system, I admit, but I just need some first hand evidence that that is what's holding us back from being a successful franchsie. Hopefully, with Cho, we're in the process of putting it to the test with some good young talent.

[ammofan]

So glad my 2nd favorite team is LA!

[spectre]

dav: I was thinking about the BRI. I admit I'm not hip to all the numbers and legalese, but from what analysts I've heard say, the new BRI 50/50 or around that will as opposed to players with 58, will bring in significant money to owners. I may be wrong and am definitely willing to concede it if I'm told otherwise.


dnb: totally agree with the odds being in our favor...I'm clinging to it.


Icky: I understand your stance, and it likely would be happening to us, but we don't know for sure. If we were a well run organization and had wound up with Howard, who's to say we wouldn't have a conference title or two (heck, maybe a title) by now, and be a destination? I'm very skeptical of the system, I admit, but I just need some first hand evidence that that is what's holding us back from being a successful franchsie. Hopefully, with Cho, we're in the process of putting it to the test with some good young talent.

Between the new BRI split and the additional revenue sharing I've read that a team like us could expect near to 20 million a year extra. That's probably absolute best case; from Gilbert's letter complaining about the Paul to LAL trade he said that revenue sharing has something to do with the taxes being paid. With the newer stronger penalties I think that number will drop somewhat.

[Icky Thump]

*Nevermind

[BobCatsFanInTx]

Whatever happened to wanting to be part of turning teams with no winning tradition into teams with a winning tradition? What happened to wanting to be "the man" in regards to leading a former cellar dweller or middle of the road team to greatness?

I realize that the LA Clippers are a big market team but they are an example for most of their existence of a team avoided because of SOME misconceptions in regards to Donald Sterling and them being snake bitten. Other teams that I can not think of off the top of my head are similar in the way that superstar and star players see them. I realize that players want to play in big markets but you will notice the better share of the big markets have something in common. They have won more titles than the small market teams. Players are caught up in tradition that has happened long before they were born let alone came to the NBA. They also see teams that are title contenders already and their presence could assure them a title.

None of these current great players and good players can see the benefit of bringing the lesser teams to becoming greater teams. If I was a superstar player I would want to be like Michael Jordan and be the guy that made an organization not known for it's greatness as being known for it's greatness.

I understand Chris Paul and his reluctance to be with somebody other than the current top teams being as long as he spent with the Hornets and how fleeting the success the Hornets had was. Dwight Howard also had trouble getting over the hump in Orlando but he was close to winning it all and he was not part of a big market team.

If I am a superstar free agent I want to go somewhere that has a solid core and a player that is a rising star who could end up a superstar. I would want to go to a team with no real history of success but one that is on it's way to becoming a team with future success. I want to be a key if not the key player to push the team in that direction. Be it immediately with my play and by being the reason other free agent stars and core pieces join my team.

I am not a fan of the Clippers but they are a team that has been so lousy that I would love to see them get over the top. At least in a season where my Nuggets or Bobcats are not in the equation. I can think of few teams that are set to do as great of things as the Clippers with the free agent additions of a few players. Namely at least one superstar and one star.

Our Bobcats can be players in free agency once we have a core similar to the Clippers and we have drafted at least one player looking like a superstar.

[bes628]

Lol our Fate is dependent on draftng a superstar. Yeah cause that happens all the time.

[SWedd523]

Lol our Fate is dependent on draftng a superstar. Yeah cause that happens all the time.
That's why so many people are mad the superstars are forcing their way to big markets.


And if our fate isn't dependent on drafting a superstar, how else do you think we can compete?

[dnbman]

That's why so many people are mad the superstars are forcing their way to big markets.


And if our fate isn't dependent on drafting a superstar, how else do you think we can compete?

O

J


Mayo.