How to build around a scoring point??

[Sik Infant]

So we have Kemba as our future point, we still have to see how good he is but assuming he's the goods(which I think he is) we still have many holes to fill, unluckily for us one of the biggest mysteries in the NBA is how to build around a scoring point but luckily for us we already have some of the pieces required.

Assuming of course his defense is above average at best as is the case with most scoring points this is the team I would build.

1) Scoring point/above average facilitator/above average defense-Kemba
2) Mid-range scorer/elite defender/decent facilitator-Hendo
3) Shooter/good defender/decent facilitator-(Barnes??)
4) Offensive Power Forward/good rebounder/good post defender/good facilitator-???
5) Elite post defender/elite rebounder/decent post offense-Biyombo

6) Scorer/shooter
7) Perimiter defender/shooter
8) Facilitator/shooter
9) Defensive Center
10) Big man shooter

Thoughts??

How do you figure we should build around Kemba??

[ChuckHayes69]

So we have Kemba as our future point, we still have to see how good he is but assuming he's the goods(which I think he is) we still have many holes to fill, unluckily for us one of the biggest mysteries in the NBA is how to build around a scoring point but luckily for us we already have some of the pieces required.

Assuming of course his defense is above average at best as is the case with most scoring points this is the team I would build.

1) Scoring point/above average facilitator/above average defense-Kemba
2) Mid-range scorer/elite defender/decent facilitator-Hendo
3) Shooter/good defender/decent facilitator-(Barnes??)
4) Offensive Power Forward/good rebounder/good post defender/good facilitator-???
5) Elite post defender/elite rebounder/decent post offense-Biyombo

6) Scorer/shooter
7) Perimiter defender/shooter
8) Facilitator/shooter
9) Defensive Center
10) Big man shooter

Thoughts??

How do you figure we should build around Kemba??

I think if he is as good as you are expecting given this (and I am hoping), the Bulls look like a good example of what to strive for. Interestingly, I think it's almost exactly what you described. I don't see how anyone could reasonably expect Kemba to be as good as Rose, so obviously you would need better players around him to build a contender. You would definitely need at least one superstar with him. Maybe Barnes could be that guy, maybe Davis/Drummond?

[spectre]

Hendo to work on his 3/handles. Tyrus to become a man.

Good stuff Sik.

[tondi]

If Kemba proves capable of breaking down his defender like he did in college we need to have a couple of shooters on the floor at all times. They can be 3pt shooters or anybody that can hit an open jumper because his penetration should provide a bunch of open looks for other guys. We would also need bigs who can finish at the rim since they should get some good looks on drive and dish type plays. Hopefully Kemba will also prove able to finish if necessary, either at the rim or in the mid range game. If this happens defenses will have to react even quicker. If he gets past his guy and then throws up brick after brick he won't be nearly as successful.

[Toocool]

How do you build around a scoring point?
Teach him to pass, so he's an all-round passing/scoring beast.
Then add a big man you can build around and you have 2 of the hardest positions set.
Then build around those two.

[SWedd523]

How do you build around a scoring point?



You don't.

[ND22]

If Kemba proves capable of breaking down his defender like he did in college we need to have a couple of shooters on the floor at all times. They can be 3pt shooters or anybody that can hit an open jumper because his penetration should provide a bunch of open looks for other guys. We would also need bigs who can finish at the rim since they should get some good looks on drive and dish type plays. Hopefully Kemba will also prove able to finish if necessary, either at the rim or in the mid range game. If this happens defenses will have to react even quicker. If he gets past his guy and then throws up brick after brick he won't be nearly as successful.

Reggie Williams would help here, which is why I hope we go after him.

Like ChuckHayes has said, modeling a team like the Bulls did is what we should strive for, and I think we already have an advantage because I believe Henderson can be a better player than Chicago's "Off guard by committee" group of Korver, Brewer, and Bogans. If Tyrus can improve we have our PF, which leaves us with finding a strong rebounding center (Kwame would be better served as a backup) and finding that wing player (Barnes, future free agent, etc).

Just don't under any circumstances do what the Bulls did and sign Carlos Boozer. :P

[Talent]

You build around Centers historically and guards recently. The problem we have here is the Allen Iverson effect. You can build around a quick scoring guard, but if you do than you will never win much if he never learns to dish the ball to spread the floor enough to leave driving lanes. Iverson was a great scorer, one of the best ever, however he could never win it all because he never learned to share. I think you can build around a scoring point guard, but it has to be an effeciant scoring guard not a volume shooter and pass to create some illusion of an offense existing outside of stop and pop or run into the lane and draw a foul.

[dav7z]

Reggie Williams would help here, which is why I hope we go after him.

Like ChuckHayes has said, modeling a team like the Bulls did is what we should strive for, and I think we already have an advantage because I believe Henderson can be a better player than Chicago's "Off guard by committee" group of Korver, Brewer, and Bogans. If Tyrus can improve we have our PF, which leaves us with finding a strong rebounding center (Kwame would be better served as a backup) and finding that wing player (Barnes, future free agent, etc).

Just don't under any circumstances do what the Bulls did and sign Carlos Boozer. :P
Some very good post Though im not sure Barnes is our guy . Im a Carolina fan . To me Barnes fades away during games and don't take control so far. But this draft is s/f rich. A artical about Kemba; he says, he can pass better than he can score . But scoring was his role in college. This team is futher along in the rebuilding process than most think. CORE, Kemba,Henderson [underated big time]. SMACK , The bus is still out on T TIME, but should get lots of chances this season, s/f is a position we should address in the draft next season , I all so like the idea of Williams shooting the long ball.

[spectre]

Rose?

I know he's bigger, but he's a scoring pointguard nonetheless.

Or are we just talking semantics here?

Edit...ND beat me to it.

[SWedd523]

When was the last time a team won a title built around a scoring PG?

[CatNation1]

I dunno but I'll gladly be a victim of the "Allen Iverson effect" if it gets the Bobcats into the Finals

[anton273]

Kemba will get his chance this year to show off both passing and scoring... after next years draft he will be the second/third scoring option so he will be passing way more!

It's that old debate of if you prefer a rose style pg or a rondo style.... in the end if you haven't got the right pieces in all positions you aint going to win the championship.... Dallas compared to Heat is the most recent comparison and look who got the rings!!

[spectre]

When was the last time a team won a title built around a scoring PG?

We all know Iverson got to the finals and everyone considers the Bulls a strong contender.

You have a point, but it's never that cut and dried as far as winning/not winning a 'ship. Look at how many guys can point directly at the existence of Jordan for the reason they never got one. There were other factors for those guys just like there would be in building around a scoring point.

"Building around" is also being very loosely used. I don't consider Kemba THE piece (not like the Bulls/Rose), but he can certainly be a core piece to fit into a team that can contend.

Is that the stipulation in this discussion...that Kemba would be the hypothetical 1st option?

[SWedd523]

I sure hope not.

A first option should be a wing or big. There's a reason why you can only name one finals trip (much less a victory) in the last 20 or so years. The one time it DID happen was under a top 25 player in the history of the game.


Kemba would be a great second or third option. In ideal worlds, your PG isn't a primary scorer.

[ziggy]

When was the last time a team won a title built around a scoring PG?

I think you have to go all the way back to the Isaiah Thomas era pistons.

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk

[SWedd523]

Ziggy gets why I said 20 or so years :)


Even then though, he was pass first for three quarters and only took over in the 4th when necessary

[CatNation1]

To be fair, Tony Parker won a Finals MVP as the Spurs leading scorer and was their best player that season, and he's not known for his passing at all. In my opinion, position doesn't matter as much as just having great players in general. Which we obviously don't

edit: actually he was slightly below Duncan the champ yr, but still he was a score first PG that won a Finals MVP

[spectre]

I sure hope not.

A first option should be a wing or big. There's a reason why you can only name one finals trip (much less a victory) in the last 20 or so years. The one time it DID happen was under a top 25 player in the history of the game.


Kemba would be a great second or third option. In ideal worlds, your PG isn't a primary scorer.

Then is "building around" really the thing we're talking about here?

I mean...it looks like we're on opposite sides but we really aren't.

[SWedd523]

Yeah I guess you could say that's the point I'm trying to get at. Iverson was clearly the best player on those Sixers teams. Rose is clearly the best player on this Bulls team. Parker, while he played great that year, was a PART of a high level partnership with Duncan and Manu.

We don't need to be content with Kemba as our #1 guy and star/superstar. We still want to go out and find an elite wing who we can pin our hopes to

[spectre]

Yeah I guess you could say that's the point I'm trying to get at. Iverson was clearly the best player on those Sixers teams. Rose is clearly the best player on this Bulls team. Parker, while he played great that year, was a PART of a high level partnership with Duncan and Manu.

We don't need to be content with Kemba as our #1 guy and star/superstar. We still want to go out and find an elite wing who we can pin our hopes to

See, I knew we were on the same side.

Tho it doesn't have to be a wing if we could somehow find the next Hakeem. I'd be willing to go to battle with that 2nd coming too.

[CatNation1]

Yeah I'm not really sure what "build around" means anyway, if it implies that we put together a team with Kemba as the best player, obviously that team is not going to be good. I do want to build around Kemba in the sense that we get as many damn good players around him as possible. If we hope to ever win a title, that probably means 2 or 3 players better than Kemba in our starting lineup. And even that depends on him becoming as good as we hope he can be

[anton273]

Think we need to wait and see how he plays in the NBA. Give him a chance the guy could amaze us all!

We have a minimum of 2 years wait until we can start even talking about making a championship run!

Lets hope the back office make the right decisions and get back into the playoffs!

[ChuckHayes69]

See, I knew we were on the same side.

Tho it doesn't have to be a wing if we could somehow find the next Hakeem. I'd be willing to go to battle with that 2nd coming too.

Haha so it's settled. Find the next Hakeem and we're good.

[SWedd523]

Haha so it's settled. Find the next Hakeem and we're good.

http://cdn.everyjoe.com/files/2011/06/bismack-biyombo-bobcats.jpg

[spectre]

All kidding aside I do think Smack has WAY more offensive potential than the talking heads think. Probably not Hakeem, but at least 50+% 6' and in.

[dav7z]

All kidding aside I do think Smack has WAY more offensive potential than the talking heads think. Probably not Hakeem, but at least 50+% 6' and in.
See i really respect CHO and his abilitys to judge talent. I all so respect his abilitys in making trades. He kinda takes your old avatar right out of your mouth Spectre.

[TheBeagle]

Really good discussion, guys! Put me in the camp of having Kemba be a key cog of the team, but not the centerpiece.

[Keetch]

One scoring point + 4 NFL offensive linemen sounds perfect.

Run the Wedge.

[teej]

Keetch, I hear the Panthers won't be doing much in a couple weeks. Get Jeff Otah or Jordan Gross to play center.

Swedd/Spectre are right, as usual. Kemba is not "the" piece if you want to win a title, but I've been saying all along (even before we drafted him) that he's Jet Terry. I'd say that was a key cog for Dallas, right?

Still need the big man, and I'm not in any way convinced either way about Bitchsmack.

[stun704]

Ziggy gets why I said 20 or so years :)


Even then though, he was pass first for three quarters and only took over in the 4th when necessary
I see no reason why Kemba couldn't do the same thing, infact I think Kemba will have that type of impact - facilitate in the first 3 quarters, then take over if and when the game is on the line. but to answer the threads question

For back up PG, you need a tall(in kembas case) high bball IQ defensive pg to back up him, someone like Luke Ridnour or Kirk Hinrich would be perfect

SG elite defender, with an offensive go to move(so he won't be totally useless on offense) Hendo has that

SF - 2nd option on offense, can carry the scoring load, can help facilitate as a pesudo point foward, and can defend, I see barnes as perfect for this role i agree.

PF - Great at setting pick and roles, excellent midrange shooter, and again an excellent defender, see no reason Tyrus can't become this, just needs to become smarter

C - Dominating defender, Dominating rebounder, Intimdating in the paint, and can finish around the basket, MUST be able to defend the pick and roll. and i think Biyombo will fit this role if not already.

Honestly I think we already two have pieces of the puzzle if we plan on building around Kemba, and thats SG, and C. PF I wish Tyrus can be the guy, but its all up to this guy getting it, and I'm sure Barnes will be there for us on draft day, if we don't get the first 2 picks, we better draft this kid, its like destiny, he would fit so well next to hendo and Kemba.


P.s I really do hope Kemba can pattern his game after Isaiah Thomas

[SWedd523]

I see Kemba as a poor man's Tim Hardaway.... which would make me super happy. But I think if Kemba is going to be successful, then he's going to need to be used as a Westbrook type player.


SG/SF. Lockdown defender who can cover PGs when need-be. Also needs to be a great shooter from outside. Someone like the old school Bruce Bowen
SG/SF. Athletic and efficient go-to scorer. Someone who can take the lead role on scoring, both on spot ups and 1-on-1. Superstar. Someone like Durant
PF/CE. Floor spacer. Able to step out to the elbow and hit a couple of shots, while also being able to score in the post. Luis Scola
PF/CE. Lockdown defender who can stick with the likes of Dwight to Amare, Bosh to Randolph. Doesn't have to score, but needs to defend and hit the glass. Biyombo?



Even then, it wouldn't be a guaranteed ship

[stun704]

I actually like the Isaiah Thomas comparison the more that i think about it, I think his passing ability is understated since he had to carry Uconn. IF he has a passing ability 75% of what his scoring ability is, we have something special here, because we already know he can take over in the 4th. I really hope Kemba can show that he can be the guy, and we can draft a pesudo Durant in Barnes next year.