Chris Paul Trade Talks (update: New Clippers deal submitted)

[Chef]

now let's see if the nba can rig a way for them to get howard.

[dav7z]

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/217173/Lakers_To_Acquire_Chris_Paul
WOW

[Absinthe]

Seriously? Fuck the NBA. I question why the NBA even has small market teams. The Bobcats won't ever be able to keep one super star, let alone acquire three.

Also, Houston's front office is composed of morons. They just gave up tons of young talent for a candy fiend and a PF that is among the softest players in the league.

[Dcarnys]

I'm not so much pissed off as I am completely disheartened. I don't think any team not named the Lakers or Celtics will ever truly be legitemit.

[akaseinfeld]

WojYahooNBA (https://twitter.com/#%21/WojYahooNBA) Adrian Wojnarowski



NBA owners have pushed commissioner David Stern to kill the deal sending Chris Paul to the Los Angeles Lakers, sources tell Y! Sports.

WojYahooNBA (https://twitter.com/#%21/WojYahooNBA) Adrian Wojnarowski



Owners were irate in Board of Governors meeting with Stern, livid that the league-owned Hornets were allowed to make Paul deal, sources say.

[Chef]

of course this gets posted an hour after espn runs it on tv.

ESPNSteinLine Marc Stein
It was not immediately clear, sources said, if three-way trade involving Hornets, Lakers and Rockets is merely snagged or in jeopardy
3 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply

ESPNSteinLine Marc Stein
ESPN CP3 trade latest: Trade with Lakers will NOT go through Friday and Chris Paul is expected in Hornets camp, according to sources

ESPNSteinLine Marc Stein
One source close to the three-team Chris Paul trade talks just told ESPN.com: "The deal is off."

journalism is dead in this country. from sports to real news.

not going off topic but how is this country not on fire with fast and furious and mf global?

[superb1]

deal is dead. a group of owners cried foul, mainly because it was the star studded Lakers. Now if that is the case, who then can trade for Paul. Will everyone cry about another owner trading for him.

[Chef]

not to defend the lakers but that is bull. the deal isn't that bad if NO's goal is to remain relevant. a starting lineup of kevin martin, louis scola, okafor, lamar odom isn't horrible. probably good enough to challenge for a playoff spot. they were the 8 seed last year.

[Wolfpackbobcat]

Thank you Stern

[SWedd523]

My opinion on all this "stars to the big markets" bullshit?



Whatever, I don't even care anymore.

[ohara831]

Glad the deal was stopped. Did not want CP3 with Kobe.

[SWedd523]

As an unbiased nonparticipant, I don't see why the league should protest the trade. The teams are free to trade whatever and whoever they want. Monix was traded for a washing machine for shit's sake.


But even if this particular trade doesn't go through, Paul will be traded sometime soon. So let's keep at the Chris Paul trade talks in this thread. The mods will try and keep the title updated as much as possible.




Back to not caring anymore

[Keetch]

League Owners are just jealous that the Hornets NBA appointed GM, Dell Demps; is better than their GM.

[Keetch]

So this is when Chris Paul sues the NBA for a GaZillion dollars.

Might be the first case to find for the plaintiff during preliminary hearings.

[adam187]

Perhaps I'm the only one, but I don't think the trade would have improved the Lakers, at least as it was. In my mind, you're not going to the promised land if Andrew Bynum is your only legitimate big man. Paul (and Bynum and Kobe to some extent) has health issues and I'm not sure how well he and Kobe would work together. Lakers were giving up a lot of length and flexibility, two of their biggest strengths.

I don't think the league should have intervened, but I guess since they own the team, it's their own prerogative. Owners have made many personnel decisions regarding players in the past, that's one of the benefits you get from assuming the risk and shelling out the bucks. But I feel it's a bad mood for a couple of reasons: 1. pissed off a lot of the players 2. looked bad in the press (and their lie about it afterwards didn't help) 3. NO was getting legitimate assets, we've seen stars leave for less, and if Paul simply leaves NO then the league seriously hurt the team 4. ratings jackpot with paul on the lakers

owners overreacted

[ohara831]

Jerry Buss was stingy when it came to the issue of Revenue Sharing between the owners. This is just the small market owners telling him to screw himself. It's OK. Paul will be a Laker next year as a FA.

[ChuckHayes69]

So this is when Chris Paul sues the NBA for a GaZillion dollars.

Might be the first case to find for the plaintiff during preliminary hearings.

What would his case be? A player can't sue his owner for not trading him. The league owns the Hormets, they can do this. Could Boris Diaw demand a trade then sue MJ if he says no? Hell no, just because the league owns the team doesn't make it different. Now it's a huge PR mistake and a conflict of interest for the league to own a team, but they do.

Now I think it's ridiculous, and I would be really pissed if I was still a Hornets fan, because I think they got absolutely hosed by the league here. I think that trade makes them a better team this year, nets them a pick, and they lose 66 games of cp3. Also I hate the Lakers and don't really think this makes them better. It makes their only legitimate big man Andrew Bynum, who is overrated and always injured. Adding the fact they don't really have any other tradable assets, and will still be over the luxury tax, I don't see them being able to add much this offseason. So trading a stacked six deep line with the biggest and most skilled front court in the league to team up two guards who are best with the ball (and somewhat injury prone in their own way) doesn't make too much sense to me.

Now that this is done, though, I don't see him being traded elsewhere. It would look too bad for the league if they said no to a great deal from LA and then said Ok to a deal with any other team. CP3 will have to go somewhere in FA, and it wouldn't shock me if they don't facilitate it with a sign and trade next summer either, which would be a travesty for Hornets fans.

[Proudiddy]

When it was going through? I was kind of like "ehh, who cares... Great. More stars to a big market..." Of course I wished there was a way for it to not go through but if it happens anyway I'd only care if they won the chip.

Then I remembered the Hornets were NBA-owned. I promise you, I texted my friend about 1 minute after the trade was reported and told him it was unfair and should be investigated if the NBA sent a superstar to the Lakers for Odom and filler.

Within an hour or so after I sent that, I get on twitter and hear it got nixed.

I don't understand all of these people crying foul when this got nixed, especially fans of small-markets? What is so hard to understand about the Hornets being NBA-owned? That presents a conflict of interest no matter how you slice it. Whether the deal went through or it didn't... Problem #1 is that the NBA "owns" the Hornets. They are suffering for letting the Hornets leave Charlotte to go to a shitty market and now they're stuck with that.

Until their ownership situation is resolved, deals should be minimal, and if they are completed, they shouldn't be nearly as one-sided as the almost deal to the Lakers was.

[spectre]

As an unbiased nonparticipant, I don't see why the league should protest the trade. The teams are free to trade whatever and whoever they want. Monix was traded for a washing machine for shit's sake.


But even if this particular trade doesn't go through, Paul will be traded sometime soon. So let's keep at the Chris Paul trade talks in this thread. The mods will try and keep the title updated as much as possible.




Back to not caring anymore

From what I've read (and I'll readily admit I've not given it that much time) the Hornets would be taking on about 40 million in that deal. If that's so I think the owners had every right to say hell no to that trade. I'm sure NOLA loses money and that gets taken out of each owners' pocket.

They also have to sell that franchise. Scola for 4 years, Martin & Mek...that's 8th-9th seed territory right there. What they really need to do is get a young prospect, capspace &/or picks. Try and outdo us for the worst record.

What brought me in this thread to begin with:

Union Gives NBA Monday Deadline To Trade Paul


Read more: http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/217257/Union_Gives_NBA_Monday_Deadline_To_Trade_Paul#ixzz 1g5LtqBIj


Really? The guy's under a freaking contract! How in the hell can he demand to be traded and sue when it doesn't happen?

[SWedd523]

From what I've read (and I'll readily admit I've not given it that much time) the Hornets would be taking on about 40 million in that deal. If that's so I think the owners had every right to say hell no to that trade. I'm sure NOLA loses money and that gets taken out of each owners' pocket.

They also have to sell that franchise. Scola for 4 years, Martin & Mek...that's 8th-9th seed territory right there. What they really need to do is get a young prospect, capspace &/or picks. Try and outdo us for the worst record.

What brought me in this thread to begin with:

Union Gives NBA Monday Deadline To Trade Paul


Read more: http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/217257/Union_Gives_NBA_Monday_Deadline_To_Trade_Paul#ixzz 1g5LtqBIj


Really? The guy's under a freaking contract! How in the hell can he demand to be traded and sue when it doesn't happen?

I made this post over on RGM


The NBA owners of the Hornets axed the trade. The league owns the Hornets, they have every right to veto trades, just like MJ vetoed the Trade that would've sent Chandler to Toronto. The owners split the cost of the Hornets and with that, they have that power.


Another issue is the payroll. Remember when Cuban was pissed the Hornets were trading Thornton for Landry because it raised their payroll? This trade would have significantly raised the Hornets payroll. A payroll that guys like MJ would have to pay.


And another issue is the eventual selling of the franchise. If you trade CP3 for a bunch of high salaried non-stars, then selling that franchise is going to be much more difficult. Why would a prospective owners want to buy into a team with a bunch of 30+ year olds and ancillary pieces? This effectively means the league will continue to have to provide for them for the foreseeable future.

[spectre]

So did you change your mind, gain enlightenment or something? :biggrin:

Most likely I'm just confused.

What do you think of the NBAPA's "ultimatum"?

[SWedd523]

I posted that earlier this day so you're a copy cat ;)



I think the NBAPA can take their thumb, sit on it, and twist. HE SIGNED A CONTRACT. That contract has him indebted to play one more year with the Hornets. If the PA wants to set a precedent by forcing the league to have him traded then it's doing nothing but starting down a slippery slope. Paul looks like a major dick after all of this, and he's lost me as a fan.

[spectre]

Hey, at least I added the part about tanking and picks!

They're going to re-work it, so Paul will end up in LAL.

Lost me too FWIW. I thought Melo was pretty bad but this is a lot worse.

[teej]

After thinking about it, I'm really excited about this. Either Paul is stuck in NoLa all year in the most awkward 66 games ever, or he makes the Lakers as interesting a team to hate as the Heat. And in the end, at least one of them loses, which makes me happy.

And you just now lost your fanhood of CP? You guys have a lot longer leash for behavior then I do. Then again, if he signed with Charlotte, I'd be thrilled and wouldn't give a fuck about his behavior. That's a hypothetical, obviously, because he'll be a Laker or Clipper or Celtic or Warrior for the next 5 years, but in any situation, it's easy to hate the opponent. Especially when he "spurns" you, even if it wasn't serious.

[ChuckHayes69]

I posted that earlier this day so you're a copy cat ;)



I think the NBAPA can take their thumb, sit on it, and twist. HE SIGNED A CONTRACT. That contract has him indebted to play one more year with the Hornets. If the PA wants to set a precedent by forcing the league to have him traded then it's doing nothing but starting down a slippery slope. Paul looks like a major dick after all of this, and he's lost me as a fan.

I agree completely. I was not originally a fan of the veto but understand it after the salary increase argument.

One thing is for sure though....Lamar Odom and Chris Paul can both go f*** themselves in my mind. I was never really a fan of either (not since cp3s bush league nut slap or Odom being on the Lakers)' but the way both of them have handled this enforced my views of them as petulant little children. Boo fucking hoo you have to stay in New Orleans a few more months and still get paid millions before heading where you want in free agency....and waah Lamar how could u have survived with a team not on the beach? I'm fine with guys leaving in FA but stop being such babies about it leading up to it. Honestly I'm annoyed at everyone involved.

[Scottley Crue]

I agree completely. I was not originally a fan of the veto but understand it after the salary increase argument.

I'm in the same camp on this. I was surprised by the veto like most, but I just can't muster the vitriol for it that I see from reporters on Twitter. This situation certainly could be handled better, i.e. not engaging in attempts to trade Paul before the Hornets have an owner other than the NBA, but the reality is that the NBA does own them and can nix trades for their own team just like Jordan, Cuban or any other owner can for theirs. I do understand that it also allows the NBA a convenient cover for doing some things they otherwise couldn't do, but this trade does remove the Hornets' best player and adds a considerable amount of salary to a team the NBA is trying to sell. This is a business and that's just not going to fly.

[Chef]

I'm in the same camp on this. I was surprised by the veto like most, but I just can't muster the vitriol for it that I see from reporters on Twitter. This situation certainly could be handled better, i.e. not engaging in attempts to trade Paul before the Hornets have an owner other than the NBA, but the reality is that the NBA does own them and can nix trades for their own team just like Jordan, Cuban or any other owner can for theirs. I do understand that it also allows the NBA a convenient cover for doing some things they otherwise couldn't do, but this trade does remove the Hornets' best player and adds a considerable amount of salary to a team the NBA is trying to sell. This is a business and that's just not going to fly.

the big reason why the writers are so against the veto is that the same writers asked stern and wrote about potential conflict of interest when the league took over the hornets (a team with a top 10 player and soon to be free agent) last year. this trade was a fair trade player-wise. i don't know if it would be the approach i would take if i were running NO (never position yourself to be a 6-8 seed with a team of highly paid vets) but many teams do it. cuban, the old paul allen, celtics, knicks etc are never afraid to take on a lot of money to make them marginally better.

the problem comes with league integrity. taking over the hornets was not supposed to be a conflict of interest, but now it is a huge liability to the perception that the league has troubles staying on the up and up.

[ohara831]

Lakers pulled out of the deal Just sent Odom to Dallas for the TE they received by trading Tyson Chandler and Mavs 1st round pick. Next up: Clippers

[Chef]

Lakers pulled out of the deal Just sent Odom to Dallas for the TE they received by trading Tyson Chandler and Mavs 1st round pick. Next up: Clippers

where is all the outrage and veto threats over this deal. this is clearly not fair value for lamar odom?

[WFU4LIFE]

All the hate for CP is laughable. Where has CP ever made public threats or public statements that would indicate he is an asshole? He showed up to training camp friday in good spirits, whereas Odom showed up late, and left early. Paul has never been anything but class in everything he does off the court. And no, I don't just love him because I'm a Wake fan, but because he is a legitimately good person. Some bigtime haters on this board.

[SWedd523]

where is all the outrage and veto threats over this deal. this is clearly not fair value for lamar odom?

The league doesn't own the Lakers or Dallas

[SWedd523]

All the hate for CP is laughable. Where has CP ever made public threats or public statements that would indicate he is an asshole? He showed up to training camp friday in good spirits, whereas Odom showed up late, and left early. Paul has never been anything but class in everything he does off the court. And no, I don't just love him because I'm a Wake fan, but because he is a legitimately good person. Some bigtime haters on this board.

Pretty sure he went to the NBPA and demanded to be traded by Friday or else they'd sue. But that's just me. All of this after saying "My heart is in New Orleans"

[Chef]

The league doesn't own the Lakers or Dallas

that is the point. that is why the writers and folks like me are just shaking our heads at this. just go ahead and contract them then.

[WFU4LIFE]

Pretty sure he went to the NBPA and demanded to be traded by Friday or else they'd sue. But that's just me. All of this after saying "My heart is in New Orleans"
He only did this after the league fucked him over worse than they have to any player ever. They vetoed the trade, leaving him in limbo. Of course he's going to take action to ensure that he doesn't just sit back and get fucked, and that the same doesn't happen to the Hornets organization.

[SWedd523]

How is he getting fucked? He's still getting paid the max for another year in New Orleans or wherever else he goes. He signed a contract. If he didn't want to play in New Orleans then he shouldn't have signed such a long extension. IT's as simple as that. Players give up their freedom to move whenever they sign long term deals.

Time for the players to learn they don't have ultimate power in the league. If he was the first, then it's too bad. He won't be the last.

[Scottley Crue]

the big reason why the writers are so against the veto is that the same writers asked stern and wrote about potential conflict of interest when the league took over the hornets (a team with a top 10 player and soon to be free agent) last year. this trade was a fair trade player-wise. i don't know if it would be the approach i would take if i were running NO (never position yourself to be a 6-8 seed with a team of highly paid vets) but many teams do it. cuban, the old paul allen, celtics, knicks etc are never afraid to take on a lot of money to make them marginally better.

the problem comes with league integrity. taking over the hornets was not supposed to be a conflict of interest, but now it is a huge liability to the perception that the league has troubles staying on the up and up.

It's certainly a tricky situation at best. I can't say that the questions of conflict of interest aren't valid because they are more than valid. I just think that the issue of losing a major attraction while adding on about $15-$20 million in salary are very valid reasons for a team owner to nix a trade. (Especially when you've got a group of 29 other guys footing that extra bill while also looking to sell it. That extra payroll doesn't exactly help.) It just so happens that the NBA owns this team, so yes, it looks bad. That's why I wish they'd put a hold on this until a new ownership group is in place for the Hornets. If that new group wants to do a deal like that, then so be it, it's that group's choice and not the league's (though, again, the league is the owner at the moment).

Now, I'm not naive enough to think that the NBA isn't sending a message here...driving a major talent away from a glamour team and almost making sure to not bow to the demands of said major talent. But the salary implications are a valid reason for nixing it to me, though there are much better ways to go about doing things than what the NBA is doing at the moment. That's where they need to clean it up.

[Chef]

if gordon goes to NO, i would immediately offer

diaw
dj
hendo
portland 2013 pick

for

okafor and gordon

[SWedd523]

I would trade anybody on our team for Eric Gordon. Dude is going to be the best SG in the league in 2 years.


And no, I'm not saying that because he's my favorite player



(thread title updated BTW)

[SWedd523]

Deal is apparently dead in the water because the league "keep asking for more and more"

[ohara831]

Not sure I like what the league is doing now. That is 2 fairly good deals, and quite fair, that got right to the end and then collapsed. If Stern is not careful, he's going to have more owners upset with him than he knows. Not a wise idea, even if he plans to retire soon.

[superb1]

It's certainly a tricky situation at best. I can't say that the questions of conflict of interest aren't valid because they are more than valid. I just think that the issue of losing a major attraction while adding on about $15-$20 million in salary are very valid reasons for a team owner to nix a trade. (Especially when you've got a group of 29 other guys footing that extra bill while also looking to sell it. That extra payroll doesn't exactly help.) It just so happens that the NBA owns this team, so yes, it looks bad. That's why I wish they'd put a hold on this until a new ownership group is in place for the Hornets. If that new group wants to do a deal like that, then so be it, it's that group's choice and not the league's (though, again, the league is the owner at the moment).

Now, I'm not naive enough to think that the NBA isn't sending a message here...driving a major talent away from a glamour team and almost making sure to not bow to the demands of said major talent. But the salary implications are a valid reason for nixing it to me, though there are much better ways to go about doing things than what the NBA is doing at the moment. That's where they need to clean it up.

WTF, I don't know where to start. I argued that the new CBA is basically crap before it did not really fix anything. They only compromise due to the thought of the money everyone would lose. I think it is Stern's way of getting back at the player's thru Paul and somewhat the big market owners. Basically the NBA is FUBAR. For you heads that don't know what this means. F@cked up beyond all recognition. The should have let the Lakers complete the trade. There was no way of really fixing the screwed up system now. The lockout is over, CBA signed and the holes in the systems remains. Now how are you going to really trade him and even Howard without trade proposals being scrutinized. The Hornets can't trade him now without the NBA involved or getting fair value. This shows the great gap created among superstars and regular players. JMHO.

[SWedd523]

I think you're forgetting the special situation the Hornets are in right now. As a league owned team, Stern is the de facto last word of all player moves. If Shinn was still the owner, that trade probably would have gone through. If the Magic (not league owned) want to trade Dwight for Diaw and Diop, then they don't have to appease Stern.

He's going to have to do what's financially viable for the franchise so they can sell them for the highest amount possible. The trade with the Lakers added a ton of long term salary for a team that isn't a long term contender. That extra money is something the other 29 owners (including MJ) are going to have to cover.


The most recent Clippers trade gets them pretty good value, but nobody (Gordon included) going to New Orleans is a guy that will keep the team value of dropping.


It's a strange situation for sure, and there really is't a win-win scenario.

[superb1]

Thanks, I understand their state and really did not mean to put the Magic in the Hornets situation. But I think what I'm saying is it is only a reflection of how the new CBA is helping or not helping any party in the NBA. It hurts Paul (basically aimed at other superstars) showing he will not hold a team hostage with demands and not honoring contracts. But who will be able to trade for Paul and not get criticized in the trade. Still a FUBAR situation the NBA is in

[Scottley Crue]

Thanks, I understand their state and really did not mean to put the Magic in the Hornets situation. But I think what I'm saying is it is only a reflection of how the new CBA is helping or not helping any party in the NBA. It hurts Paul (basically aimed at other superstars) showing he will not hold a team hostage with demands and not honoring contracts. But who will be able to trade for Paul and not get criticized in the trade. Still a FUBAR situation the NBA is in

I think this article from Jared Wade at the Hoopspeak blog sums up my thoughts about the league's responsibility/role in these trade talks.

http://hoopspeak.com/2011/12/david-stern-did-the-right-thing/

[superb1]

I think this article from Jared Wade at the Hoopspeak blog sums up my thoughts about the league's responsibility/role in these trade talks.

http://hoopspeak.com/2011/12/david-stern-did-the-right-thing/

it makes much better sense but for some reason it still stinks, I guess too much conflict of interest involved that can be brought up.

[SWedd523]

ESPNSteinLineMarc Stein
ESPN sources: Clippers and NBA-owned Hornets have agreed to Chris Paul deal in principle. Gordon, Kaman, Aminu and Minnesota pick to Hornets
47 seconds ago

[Chef]

ESPNSteinLineMarc Stein
ESPN sources: Clippers and NBA-owned Hornets have agreed to Chris Paul deal in principle. Gordon, Kaman, Aminu and Minnesota pick to Hornets
47 seconds ago

can't believe i am saying this, but i think gordon and the pick are too much. i would have forced league's hand and insisted on bledsoe, kaman, aminu and pick.

[ohara831]

Good for both teams. Glad it is done and over with.

[bing!]

It's gonna be so weird watching him as a Clip. Now, the Lakers fans are gonna throw a collective tantrum.

[adam187]

david stern played us all again. i guess holding out was the right decision.

[spectre]

ESPNSteinLineMarc Stein
ESPN sources: Clippers and NBA-owned Hornets have agreed to Chris Paul deal in principle. Gordon, Kaman, Aminu and Minnesota pick to Hornets
47 seconds ago

Stern says "that's how you do it".

He got very good value for the Hornets all while possibly looking the fool in the process. Kudos to him and NOLA.

[SWedd523]

Clippers paid way, way too much.

[teej]

Love the deal for the Hornets. That's a top 10 pick, possibly top 5. A rising superstar at the 2, a great trade piece in Kaman, and maybe something solid in Aminu. Great, great haul. And oh, by the way. When Chris Paul's knee blows out in two months, can we all just collectively lynch Don Stirling?

[Toocool]

NOLA laughing all the way to the bank, getting Eric Gordon.