D.J. Augustin extension? formerly the DJ White extension thread

[murphman]

Buried in this informative article. Extensions for the '08 draft class have to happen by the 18th. Augustin not mentioned.
http://www.nba.com/2012/news/features/david_aldridge/01/16/few-extensions-for-players/index.html



D.J. White, Bobcats (29th)
The Bobcats, according to a source, have some interest in extending White, one of the few bright spots (9.9 points, 5.8 rebounds) in an otherwise terrible season so far in Charlotte. A final decision is expected this week.

[DY_nasty]

Buried in this informative article. Extensions for the '08 draft class have to happen by the 18th. Augustin not mentioned.
http://www.nba.com/2012/news/features/david_aldridge/01/16/few-extensions-for-players/index.html
We better not...

[ND22]

We better not...

Better not on Augustin or White?

For White, I think I'm for an extension. I'm not 100% for it, but he's playing well enough to warrant extension talk. Plus, Diaw will not likely be on the team next year, TT could be amnestied unless he proves he's capable, and Biyombo, while I'm a fan of, is at least two years away from coming into his own.

White would make 3 million next year if extended or in other words, would cost 1 million more against the cap. I think he's worth 3 million next year.

[ballwhore]

Higgins just called (Thad) DJ's agent about an hour ago asking what DJ wants. Answer.... market value of guys with similar numbers but will get back on tommorrow.

[Chef]

Higgins just called (Thad) DJ's agent about an hour ago asking what DJ wants. Answer.... market value of guys with similar numbers but will get back on tommorrow.

no offense ballwhore, but i think it is best for the team to part ways if dj and his agent think (or know) they are going to get over the 7.5 mil range. stupid mike connely deal messed it all up. if it were apparent beyond a shadow of a doubt that biz or kemba were to become the 1 option superstar, then i would be behind it. i still stand firm in saying that he is by far anything better than we will be able to draft or sign in FA in a few years.

at the golden state game i was closely watching him and kemba, they play very well together on a personality level and dj is really helping kemba learn on the court. everyone on the team really likes him and he is a "silent" leader. the only problem is that we are going to have to pay dj what the market says he's worth and to the bobcats at the present moment we should not commit the money to dj. i would like to see us do him right after all the crap he has endured during his first 4 years. i would like to see him sent to a team in a good situation. in other words, not to a team like sacramento or toronto.

[SWedd523]

Market value has changed in the new CBA

[Chef]

Market value has changed in the new CBA

it has but in the next few years there are going to be sooo many gm's with a ton of cap space and we all know how that ends up going. right now there are at least 3 teams with a bunch of room and in need of a point guard. i think he will get over 7 mil.

but you are right swedd.

[ballwhore]

only thing cba changed is players 8-15 will be getting far less 1-7 still getting paid.

[SWedd523]

only thing cba changed is players 8-15 will be getting far less 1-7 still getting paid.

The CBA has reduced the middle class. Max guys are still going to get max money, but with less money to go around, the rest of the players are going to get less. The days of players like Conley getting $8 million+ are (and should) be gone. The impact guys like DJ have on the overall outcome of a season is minimal because the league is driven by superstars.

[ALong13]

I'd extend both DJ White and Augustin. White for maybe 2 years, Augustin for 3. Kemba Walker has not shown me enough to say I think he is the better player. He's had 2 good game, but otherwise is shooting HORRIBLY and turning the ball over too much. Augustin is having good games regularly, and going 15 and 7 is not uncommon at all. Between the two, Kemba may be the better name, but right now and until Kemba steps up, Augustin is the better player.

[stun704]

I'd only extend White if we trade Tyrus Thomas, theres so many PF's better then him in the draft coming up that it would be foolish to have so many PF's on our roster

[CatNation1]

White is a great role player. If we can get him at a good price, we should. Tyrus and Boris need to be shown the door

[DY_nasty]

Better not on Augustin or White?

For White, I think I'm for an extension. I'm not 100% for it, but he's playing well enough to warrant extension talk. Plus, Diaw will not likely be on the team next year, TT could be amnestied unless he proves he's capable, and Biyombo, while I'm a fan of, is at least two years away from coming into his own.

White would make 3 million next year if extended or in other words, would cost 1 million more against the cap. I think he's worth 3 million next year.White.

He's not that good

[Twan's Kin]

What about extending Diaw ?? Maybe 3 million per year.

[DY_nasty]

What about extending Diaw ?? Maybe 3 million per year.
You're all alone on that one.

Diaw is pretty much universally hated right now.

[spectre]

Market value has changed in the new CBA

I think it will, but remember there's basically a 3 year cushion to get to the new CBA. Before that harder line settles in I'd bet a few guys will still get overpaid.


no offense ballwhore, but i think it is best for the team to part ways if dj and his agent think (or know) they are going to get over the 7.5 mil range. stupid mike connely deal messed it all up. if it were apparent beyond a shadow of a doubt that biz or kemba were to become the 1 option superstar, then i would be behind it. i still stand firm in saying that he is by far anything better than we will be able to draft or sign in FA in a few years.

at the golden state game i was closely watching him and kemba, they play very well together on a personality level and dj is really helping kemba learn on the court. everyone on the team really likes him and he is a "silent" leader. the only problem is that we are going to have to pay dj what the market says he's worth and to the bobcats at the present moment we should not commit the money to dj. i would like to see us do him right after all the crap he has endured during his first 4 years. i would like to see him sent to a team in a good situation. in other words, not to a team like sacramento or toronto.

I have to agree with a lot of this.

It would only be prudent for any GM wanting to trade for DJ to find out what it'd take to re-sign him. We very possibly could be looking to keep him for ourselves if it's reasonable, but inquiring about his price makes sense...and in fact I'd be a little pissed if they didn't. Him getting to RFA status is IMO a dangerous idea where we could end up losing him for nothing.

[spectre]

DJ White...yes, extend him if it's reasonable. 3 per is pretty high IMO but I think I'd go that for maybe 3 years? I think that'd be very tradable with his offensive prowess...and I do not want to lose him like we did Cunningham. His skillset is something we've seldom had; a guy you can pretty much count on to hit his shot. That has value.

[tondi]

I endorse the same mentality for both DJ's. Try to resign them since they have proven to be competent rotation guys in the league. Neither of them is worth overpaying to keep so if they want more than we will give let them become RFA's or trade them by the deadline. If they make it to RFA status make another attempt and if they go somewhere else for too much then so be it. Neither play consistently well enough for us to break the bank to over pay and both play positions where there are other competent options on the roster. And especially with the PF position, there are several intriguing guys at the top of next years draft that would also be options.

Losing mediocre guys isn't the worst possible outcome. Overpaying them and screwing up our cap situation for the next few years (which we are currently trying to correct from our last irrational spending binge) is the worst possible outcome.

[ballwhore]

Being considered mediocre on a team well below the standards of being average is an achivement in my book. Charlotte Bobcats have ran Diaw and Diop out at center this year. Corey higgins is logging meaningful minutes. Maggette is here and told he is the ace. Then the g.o.at. is running in the locker room calling out players. Man please! Put a better product out on the court. Eventually Jordan is going to have to pay somebody you can't flip players through the draft forever. I feel positive you'll see his true value once he is gone and playing with a half way legit big man that can actually dive to the basket and a legit shooter or two or how about even a consistent group of the same players. Do you think it's just a coincidence every player that leaves shines a little bit more? I thinks it's quite telling.

[bes628]

Being considered mediocre on a team well below the standards of being average is an achivement in my book. Charlotte Bobcats have ran Diaw and Diop out at center this year. Corey higgins is logging meaningful minutes. Maggette is here and told he is the ace. Then the g.o.at. is running in the locker room calling out players. Man please! Put a better product out on the court. Eventually Jordan is going to have to pay somebody you can't flip players through the draft forever. I feel positive you'll see his true value once he is gone and playing with a half way legit big man that can actually dive to the basket and a legit shooter or two or how about even a consistent group of the same players. Do you think it's just a coincidence every player that leaves shines a little bit more? I thinks it's quite telling.

i agree with all that, but especially this

[dav7z]

ballwhore , What would you think it would take to lock DJ up for three years. Felton got two at 7.5 the market is a little tighter now. Im thinking three at 7 mil . Thoughts?

[CatNation1]

Do you think it's just a coincidence every player that leaves shines a little bit more? I thinks it's quite telling.

lol who? Raymond, Morrison, May, Okafor, JRich, Crash, Jackson, DBrown, Carroll, Ajinca? Hardly.....

the only ones I can even think of are..uh..Dudley and Shannon Brown?\

If thats the argument DJs agent plans to use he's gonna get laughed out of the boardroom

[DY_nasty]

I do agree with you on one thing ballwhore, this flipping players for picks stuff shouldn't go on forever. At the same time, I think people here really overvalue the hell out of the players here. DJ White isn't worth more that 2.5 a year. The last thing this team needs is another Matt Carroll contract...

ballwhore , What would you think it would take to lock DJ up for three years. Felton got two at 7.5 the market is a little tighter now. Im thinking three at 7 mil . Thoughts?Eh... the only reason Felton got two was because of the Knicks situation. They wanted to make sure they had someone decent to run with Amare and they wanted to be flexible enough within the cap to be able to go for Paul or Deron. They overpaid to make sure that they were able to get him.

[spectre]

We could have continued on with what we were building earlier and I was perfectly fine with it. Agreed with that way in fact. Like it or not tho we have another cheap owner...or at least one that has to be conscious of the financials. In order to get to contention the lower cost way it has to be thru the draft, and that also means not overpaying for guys who aren't a legit 1st or 2nd options on a contender. UNTIL we get that guy we can't be holding onto players like Crash, Jackson, DJ and Tyrus.

This is really our 1st year of doing it this way (or 2nd depending on how you want to look at it)...so we can't pin that on Jordan yet.

[ballwhore]

@cat if his agent used the players you named the argument would lean mostly toward you need to keep what you got because your drafting judgment ain't worth a sh#t DJ shouldn't even be here he didn't even workout for you before the draft. (Three players totally out of the d@mn NBA in 5 years) Man whatever! Anyway, 7 per will do it but I really wish they ask for 10 just so he can be traded asap and he's back to drafting yet another point guard. Don't think Jordan staying out of Cho's way at all.

[ballwhore]

@Dy Felton was playing at an all-star with New York better than anyone they have now not even close . Even Chauncey couldn't touch what he and Amare was doing to me he was worh 7mil plus playing in New York.

[DY_nasty]

@Dy Felton was playing at an all-star with New York better than anyone they have now not even close . Even Chauncey couldn't touch what he and Amare was doing to me he was worh 7mil plus playing in New York.
He was putting up the #s we always thought he would in a faster pace with an all-star big man to throw it to. He was the same player (still doing the same dumb stuff we loved/hated). Still, NY threw more money at him than anyone else to secure him immediately after the lebron drama died down. No one else was going to give him more than the MLE at the time.

That being said, there are no solid players in Charlotte other than DJ at the moment. I'm really liking Gerald but he's bipolar. Some days he wants to run off screens and not do much else, other days he's actually ready to attack the rim. I think we need to get some kind of consistency moving forward.

[SirBobcat]

I'd venture to say we're giving both their minimum qualifying offer. Got to keep your assets if you feel you can deal for a big star.

[superb1]

This is really our 1st year of doing it this way (or 2nd depending on how you want to look at it)...so we can't pin that on Jordan yet.

I think what a lot of us are getting with is the flipping PGs. We have not establish one to whom we want to build thru and keep drafting one to compete with the incumbent. We are going to have to pay someone eventually. Why not DJ, see what he wants and go from there. If reasonable, ok. If not, then trade him somewhere where all parties are happy

[superb1]

I'd venture to say we're giving both their minimum qualifying offer. Got to keep your assets if you feel you can deal for a big star.

I really don't think anyone is going to come if we don't put a decent product on the floor

[Chef]

I think what a lot of us are getting with is the flipping PGs. We have not establish one to whom we want to build thru and keep drafting one to compete with the incumbent.

the problem with this logic is you don't just pick players to build around. you draft or in other teams case use FA to attract a clear star and build around them. if you are team like indy without a clear star you don't force a build ie overpay granger and force a team around him. if you are okc you have a clear cut building block in durant and you pay others around that. if we don't have anyone to build around it makes no sense to overpay DJ because then you are forced to build around him or at least consider him in any long term plan. DJ is a complimentary player not a westbrook or rose type pg. bw is right, let him get to a team with a clear cut alpha and he will really shine.

[SWedd523]

Eventually Jordan is going to have to pay somebody you can't flip players through the draft forever.

He can flip them all day long until he gets one worth paying. Just because DJ is average doesn't mean you pay him. You pay a player when they're worthy of the bigger contract.

[stun704]

Being considered mediocre on a team well below the standards of being average is an achivement in my book. Charlotte Bobcats have ran Diaw and Diop out at center this year. Corey higgins is logging meaningful minutes. Maggette is here and told he is the ace. Then the g.o.at. is running in the locker room calling out players. Man please! Put a better product out on the court. Eventually Jordan is going to have to pay somebody you can't flip players through the draft forever. I feel positive you'll see his true value once he is gone and playing with a half way legit big man that can actually dive to the basket and a legit shooter or two or how about even a consistent group of the same players. Do you think it's just a coincidence every player that leaves shines a little bit more? I thinks it's quite telling.
Not sure who exactly has looked better since leaving the bobcats other then Felton, and thats only because he went to D'Antoni's offense, hes looked extra ordinary since leaving NY.

[ballwhore]

No that means you pay him what the average player is getting. It's the american way so if charlotte won't somebody else will. People can use Rose and Westbrook but it's agreed here that they are above average so they are getting 15-19 plus per and DJ is not worth half of that money? Guess we'll never know as long as he is playing with the likes of 13 other bench players vs Who those two run with on the court nightly. If Jordan can't afford to pay his players he needs to sell the team...LMAO

[stun704]

No that means you pay him what the average player is getting. It's the american way so if charlotte won't somebody else will. People can use Rose and Westbrook but it's agreed here that they are above average so they are getting 15-19 plus per and DJ is not worth half of that money? Guess we'll never know as long as he is playing with the likes of 13 other bench players vs Who those two run with on the court nightly. If Jordan can't afford to pay his players he needs to sell the team...LMAO
What he is saying is that he shouldn't pay players just to pay them, If Kemba, DJ or Felton for that matter showed that they were or could most definately become top 7ish in their position then MJ would pay them, however since DJ is just a middle of the pack PG you shouldn't pay an exuberant amount to keep him especially when you drafted a PG who has a higher ceiling. I think its just natural evolution and I don't disagree with MJ's approach, DJ had a higher ceiling then Felton, so we let Felton walk... Kemba has a higher ceiling then DJ, so we'll more then likely trade or let him walk too, its nothing personal, and its nothing about MJ being "cheap" its about looking towards the future.

[bes628]

Im a DJ fan, and its not like he's out there playing with guys who are equally as talented to make him better his game. Our entire team except maybe DJ is a bunch of backups. DJ is the only person who could legitimately start for a good team.

[DY_nasty]

I just do not like DJ White as anything other than a bench player in Charlotte. And on a team this bad, if you're coming off the bench and you're not behind DJ, the ONLY real starter on this team, then you probably suck. Too many times I see him find an unlucky guard switched to him that he bails out with a fade away jumper. He's a poor man's Millsap. A very, very poor man.

What he is saying is that he shouldn't pay players just to pay them, If Kemba, DJ or Felton for that matter showed that they were or could most definately become top 7ish in their position then MJ would pay them, however since DJ is just a middle of the pack PG you shouldn't pay an exuberant amount to keep him especially when you drafted a PG who has a higher ceiling. I think its just natural evolution and I don't disagree with MJ's approach, DJ had a higher ceiling then Felton, so we let Felton walk... Kemba has a higher ceiling then DJ, so we'll more then likely trade or let him walk too, its nothing personal, and its nothing about MJ being "cheap" its about looking towards the future.
I don't think DJ belongs square in the middle of the pack pg spot anymore... After the all-stars, he's next on the list. Once you add in the fact that he's young and getting his assists basically passing to no one and is having to jack up shots just to keep this pathetic offense in the game, then yeah, he deserves a little more than mid-tier these days.

[spectre]

I don't think DJ belongs square in the middle of the pack pg spot anymore... After the all-stars, he's next on the list. Once you add in the fact that he's young and getting his assists basically passing to no one and is having to jack up shots just to keep this pathetic offense in the game, then yeah, he deserves a little more than mid-tier these days.

This season I agree. He's a lot more willing to take risks in his passes and we're seeing the results. To me it's night/day in how he's creating this year vs. previous seasons. The drawback on him however is his pretty much total lack of D, and I hate to say this again but it makes me think of Caleron in Toronto. I don't want to be in their situation.

Barring us getting some Durant type in this upcoming draft I think we're 3 years away at best...and it could very well be longer. To get the top tier talent we're going to have to be bad for a while, probably Minnesota bad. Do we need to be paying a non all star the bigger money, esp. when we have a rookie who needs to learn?

And it's not just us...would DJ really want to be in this situation for most of his next contract? The money being equal I know damn well I'd rather be somewhere else.

BTW DY...I quoted your post but I'm not arguing with you. My post was more rhetorical than anything.

[ballwhore]

What he is saying is that he shouldn't pay players just to pay them, If Kemba, DJ or Felton for that matter showed that they were or could most definately become top 7ish in their position then MJ would pay them, however since DJ is just a middle of the pack PG you shouldn't pay an exuberant amount to keep him especially when you drafted a PG who has a higher ceiling. I think its just natural evolution and I don't disagree with MJ's approach, DJ had a higher ceiling then Felton, so we let Felton walk... Kemba has a higher ceiling then DJ, so we'll more then likely trade or let him walk too, its nothing personal, and its nothing about MJ being "cheap" its about looking towards the future.

Kemba is a two guard 5'11 Kobe. I don't care what none of you say he is a scorer not a point guard. MJ is cheap it's a consensus in the league. He is the owner who most can't afford to loose money but gives the world this pitiful product. So he will over pay or players not coming.

[Chef]

Kemba is a two guard 5'11 Kobe. I don't care what none of you say he is a scorer not a point guard.

not all of us are saying different

[ballwhore]

@spectre for the first time I think he does rather be out of this situation.

[stun704]

Kemba is a two guard 5'11 Kobe. I don't care what none of you say he is a scorer not a point guard. MJ is cheap it's a consensus in the league. He is the owner who most can't afford to loose money but gives the world this pitiful product. So he will over pay or players not coming.
Ironically a majority of the posters would have said the same thing about DJ in his rookie and sophmore years, Kemba is a play maker, don't descredit him just because he can create his own shot, Kemba has shown flashes of being able to set up team mates and run the offense so I wouldn't categorize him as a "5'11 Kobe" just yet; especially without a training camp.

[Bosnian-Bobcats-Fan]

Wait so whats the chances of dj getting an extension?.....what other news you got about dj ballwhore?

[DY_nasty]

This season I agree. He's a lot more willing to take risks in his passes and we're seeing the results. To me it's night/day in how he's creating this year vs. previous seasons. The drawback on him however is his pretty much total lack of D, and I hate to say this again but it makes me think of Caleron in Toronto. I don't want to be in their situation.

Barring us getting some Durant type in this upcoming draft I think we're 3 years away at best...and it could very well be longer. To get the top tier talent we're going to have to be bad for a while, probably Minnesota bad. Do we need to be paying a non all star the bigger money, esp. when we have a rookie who needs to learn?

And it's not just us...would DJ really want to be in this situation for most of his next contract? The money being equal I know damn well I'd rather be somewhere else.

BTW DY...I quoted your post but I'm not arguing with you. My post was more rhetorical than anything.Oh, naw its cool spec.

Minnesota is different. Kahn's ineptitude outweighs their tanking spirit.

[Bosnian-Bobcats-Fan]

Ironically a majority of the posters would have said the same thing about DJ in his rookie and sophmore years, Kemba is a play maker, don't descredit him just because he can create his own shot, Kemba has shown flashes of being able to set up team mates and run the offense so I wouldn't categorize him as a "5'11 Kobe" just yet; especially without a training camp.

good point

[ballwhore]

Yeah DJ played shooting guard so that's expected. I watched Kemba in college but I think most of you may have only caught the tournament. (Which by the way was turnover filled and the worst championship game in history). He is a chunker! He can light it up though at times but definitely a volume shooter first and passer last. Most poeple in the NBa can create their own shot these days with the no hand check rule I see it done every single game. Just my opinion he is a lil Jason Terry mixed with a lil Brandon Jennings. Only time will tell though your right on that stun.

[ballwhore]

@bosnian I will say it's 60/40 i'll know in a minute I just asked whats up with it....

[Bosnian-Bobcats-Fan]

Hmmmm i thought they would trade DJ since they believe in Kemba, i also would think DJ would want to be traded but he seems like the good character guy who keeps his mouth shut and just plays bball

[superb1]

the problem with this logic is you don't just pick players to build around. you draft or in other teams case use FA to attract a clear star and build around them. if you are team like indy without a clear star you don't force a build ie overpay granger and force a team around him. if you are okc you have a clear cut building block in durant and you pay others around that. if we don't have anyone to build around it makes no sense to overpay DJ because then you are forced to build around him or at least consider him in any long term plan. DJ is a complimentary player not a westbrook or rose type pg. bw is right, let him get to a team with a clear cut alpha and he will really shine.

I did not mean build the whole team around either of those guys, I meant that we wont commit to establishing and developing a pg for the long term. We have a history of being bad at drafting and overpaying FAs, so our chances at getting a superstar passed us many times over. We never had a Cho-type FO

[dav7z]

@cat if his agent used the players you named the argument would lean mostly toward you need to keep what you got because your drafting judgment ain't worth a sh#t DJ shouldn't even be here he didn't even workout for you before the draft. (Three players totally out of the d@mn NBA in 5 years) Man whatever! Anyway, 7 per will do it but I really wish they ask for 10 just so he can be traded asap and he's back to drafting yet another point guard. Don't think Jordan staying out of Cho's way at all.

Seven sounds like a good price for both sides; Befor this CBA agreement 8 to 10 would seemed more like it. By far hes our best player as of now and 7 mil per is cheap for your best player. Just my thoughts but if he inproved his defence during the next say three years . I coul'd see him pulling in 12+ after that . The key thing being he has to stay in a starting role.

[ballwhore]

60 they wont extend..he does need to pick up that defense

[superb1]

60 they wont extend..he does need to pick up that defense

So hopeful DJ we be auditioning for possible suitors the rest of the season if we don't trade him. I wish him the best.

How come this thread has turned from DJ White to DJ Augustin? lol

[Bosnian-Bobcats-Fan]

60 they wont extend..he does need to pick up that defense

Dj is one of my favorite players, if he leaves let him know we all thank him for everything he's done and we'll miss him. He's a solid pg and deserves a good amount of money, his D is sub par but he does other things good. Just keep us updated thank you!

[spectre]

@bosnian I will say it's 60/40 i'll know in a minute I just asked whats up with it....

I wonder if he'd be poison pill, or did they eliminate that? I think him signing an extension would actually help his trade value. Either way it'd give us time at the 1 spot to determine which way we want to go.

Rose, Tony Parker, Westbrook, Irving, Deron Williams. None are "pure" PGs. Hell, in my mind there's almost no such thing as a pure PG these days. Maybe Chris Paul/Nash...but they aren't exactly afraid to shoot the ball. Rondo? He passes because 1) 3 alpha dogs 2) he can't shoot.

Like Stun said I considered DJ a scoring PG...and he's still a scoring PG! His passing has come a long way, but I think if you have decent BBIQ that's going to come over time else you're going to have a mutiny with the other guys not getting shots.

I'm fine with where Kemba is right now. I've seen flashes of passing ability from him and over time I think he'll develop that even more.

[DY_nasty]

I wonder if he'd be poison pill, or did they eliminate that? I think him signing an extension would actually help his trade value. Either way it'd give us time at the 1 spot to determine which way we want to go.

Rose, Tony Parker, Westbrook, Irving, Deron Williams. None are "pure" PGs. Hell, in my mind there's almost no such thing as a pure PG these days. Maybe Chris Paul/Nash...but they aren't exactly afraid to shoot the ball. Rondo? He passes because 1) 3 alpha dogs 2) he can't shoot.

Like Stun said I considered DJ a scoring PG...and he's still a scoring PG! His passing has come a long way, but I think if you have decent BBIQ that's going to come over time else you're going to have a mutiny with the other guys not getting shots.

I'm fine with where Kemba is right now. I've seen flashes of passing ability from him and over time I think he'll develop that even more.I think DJ scores more out of necessity than anything else. How many guys on this team would you be okay with taking 18 shots a night? Hell, most of the guys are too busy not cutting to think about it.

[ballwhore]

Text back:3 yrs 22.5 mil asking....

[spectre]

I think DJ scores more out of necessity than anything else. How many guys on this team would you be okay with taking 18 shots a night? Hell, most of the guys are too busy not cutting to think about it.

Man it's hard to say. I saw about 5 games of DJ in his last year at Texas on replay after we drafted him, and he mostly played off guard because he had to score on that team. I didn't see it, but the season before I imagine he played more of a facillitating role with Durant.

I've seen the argument that Kemba "had" to score on the UCONN team.

I don't like putting any of these guys in a box...and why I've come to scoff at the "pure" PG line. If he can score then he SHOULD score. As a PG tho he also has to try and get some balanced opportunities for the other guys.

I totally agee tho on the not cutting. Until guys freaking MOVE without the ball no one is going to look real good.

[Bosnian-Bobcats-Fan]

Text back:3 yrs 22.5 mil asking....

dj is asking that? wonder if we will give him it

[murphman]

Text back:3 yrs 22.5 mil asking....

Steal for the Bobcats if they take it. If they don't, they have some good leads on possible trades.

[Plowright]

we can knock him down a bit, if thats his first offer it is actually reasonable. 19.5 3 years should be our counter. We don't want to insult him by going 15 or something

[ballwhore]

He said that's what Thad presented but 21 is the mark and bottomline. We'll see it's on the table.

[superb1]

we can knock him down a bit, if thats his first offer it is actually reasonable. 19.5 3 years should be our counter. We don't want to insult him by going 15 or something i'm afraid to let MJ negotiate especially after the lockout meetings, lol


Text back:3 yrs 22.5 mil asking....
sounds good to me but what do i know

[ballwhore]

My bad 23.5 for 3 and 21 bottom

[Bosnian-Bobcats-Fan]

I wonder if we take the deal, if they dont they better have a good trade in line. Cant let him walk for nothing.

[Plowright]

Sounds reasonable to me, that contract will not scare other teams off if we do end up trading him. In todays NBA for a starting PG that isn't bad if you ask me would like to get him down to 19.5 tho, whats another 2.5 mil :p tO DJ

[SWedd523]

I don't think DJ belongs square in the middle of the pack pg spot anymore... After the all-stars, he's next on the list. Once you add in the fact that he's young and getting his assists basically passing to no one and is having to jack up shots just to keep this pathetic offense in the game, then yeah, he deserves a little more than mid-tier these days.
You really feel that way?


Chris Paul
Derrick Rose
Deron Williams
Rajon Rondo
Kyle Lowry
Russell Westbrook
Stephen Curry
Kyrie Irving
John Wall
Jrue Holiday
Ty Lawson
Steve Nash
Mike Conley
Ricky Rubio


That's 14 guys right there that are better PGs than DJ. Right off the bat, DJ is no better than 15th which literally puts him... mid-tier. Then you have the following guys that are in the same group as DJ, some a little higher, some a little lower.


Brandon Jennings
Jose Calderon
Darren Collison
Ray Felton
Kirk Hinrich
Jarrett Jack
Jason Kidd
Andre Miller
Jameer Nelson
Jeff Teague


I'm not talking as if I hate DJ. It's not like Kemba has sown that he can be a top 10 PG either. I just think we need to approach the situation without our homer goggles on. A rookie contract Kemba can provide every bit as much production as DJ can. Not as good on offense (which is to be expected from a rookie with no TC), but better on defense. There is no way in the world you could justify signing DJ for 3/4 years at over $7mil to play in a timeshare with a PG you just drafted.

[ballwhore]

Chris Paul
Derrick Rose
Deron Williams
Rajon Rondo
Kyle Lowry-No
Russell Westbrook
Stephen Curry
Kyrie Irving
John Wall
Jrue Holiday-Wash
Ty Lawson-Wash
Steve Nash
Mike Conley-NO
Ricky Rubio-No

Just my opinion. I say a move to a better team puts him top ten. Just my unbiased opinion of course.

[CatNation1]

yeah at this point Kemba can probably provide 95% of DJs play...so why pay DJ 3-4x as much to do the same stuff. DJ is an asset that we can use to fill bigger holes in the roster. I'll feel the same way 4 yrs from now if Kemba doesn't get that much better and we have a good young player on the bench. Most of us felt the same way about Raymond (cept the UNC homers :P)

[DY_nasty]

95%? Kemba can't even show up two games in a row yet. I like the guy, but he's far from winning that battle with DJ.

You really feel that way?


Chris Paul
Derrick Rose
Deron Williams
Rajon Rondo
Kyle Lowry
Russell Westbrook
Stephen Curry
Kyrie Irving
John Wall
Jrue Holiday
Ty Lawson
Steve Nash
Mike Conley
Ricky Rubio


That's 14 guys right there that are better PGs than DJ. Right off the bat, DJ is no better than 15th which literally puts him... mid-tier. Then you have the following guys that are in the same group as DJ, some a little higher, some a little lower.


Brandon Jennings
Jose Calderon
Darren Collison
Ray Felton
Kirk Hinrich
Jarrett Jack
Jason Kidd
Andre Miller
Jameer Nelson
Jeff Teague


I'm not talking as if I hate DJ. It's not like Kemba has sown that he can be a top 10 PG either. I just think we need to approach the situation without our homer goggles on. A rookie contract Kemba can provide every bit as much production as DJ can. Not as good on offense (which is to be expected from a rookie with no TC), but better on defense. There is no way in the world you could justify signing DJ for 3/4 years at over $7mil to play in a timeshare with a PG you just drafted.Oh, I'm not riding him either. But he's better than Rubio (imagine if we had shooters and people to pass to - DJ's been the only consistent 3pt threat for the past two seasons), Kyrie (He just got here, jury's out, fair?), Wall (who's looked ass this season - even last year, when he wasn't free to run up and down the court he looked almost terrible in the halfcourt on both sides of the ball), and Conley. Even if you want to say those guys are nothing more than arguable, DJ's value as a younger guard makes him more of a commodity for rebuilding teams than Nash.

What I'm saying is, to a young and rebuilding team, what better attainable point guards are out there? Even if you look to the draft, you're at least a year way from a legit top 5 overall player who's a point guard. Kemba as insurance is pretty good too. But if we're going to offer him something as palatable as a 3 year deal that won't hold us back really, then we really can't say "no, we've got a better plan".

[anton273]

Hell any of the guys you mentioned Top 15 or above would probably get the same or better production at our team, we have no go to guy at the moment so it's bound to make DJ look good!

[CatNation1]

The one year we had a good team was DJs worst year. Go figure

[Bosnian-Bobcats-Fan]

The one year we had a good team was DJs worst year. Go figure

Larry Browns attitude towards DJ didnt help him....

[DY_nasty]

The one year we had a good team was DJs worst year. Go figure
Yeah that makes a bunch of sense

Lets give Larry Hughes a call. He was a great backup.

Its one thing to like Kemba, its another to just pull crap out of nowhere to make a point that doesn't exist...

[ballwhore]

Yep.. DJ is here and Larry Brown got run out of town. Go figure

[CatNation1]

jus statin facts

[Chef]

My bad 23.5 for 3 and 21 bottom

i'm sure you are being careful about the info you are giving us, but do they really want the bottom line number to be so public?

[ballwhore]

That's a fact. Jordan choose DJ and Kept Lary Brown even when he wanted to trade him Jordan nixed it..Fact

[Bosnian-Bobcats-Fan]

jus statin facts

yeah but u gotta put it into persepctive a little bit....but its true our playoff year was his worst season.

[ballwhore]

Trust it's just a feeling out stage. My feeling is it is a set up for a sign and trade. Wouldn't it be something if Higgins and Cho said ballwhore said 21 million so i think we can do 19...lmao Both sides already know what they are going to do or not regardless.

[Bosnian-Bobcats-Fan]

if we sign and trade for who then...

[SWedd523]

Kyle Lowry-No
First and foremost, Lowry is a top 5 defensive PG.

He's also averaging more points, more assists more rebounds, more steals, more blocks, has a higher FG%, higher 3PT%, and higher FT%

Pretty safe to say he's better.


Jrue Holiday-Wash
Ty Lawson-Wash
Both are better defenders.

The numbers between DJ and Jrue are pretty even. DJ gives you much more assists, but Holiday much more steals. Jrue is also shooting better across the board.

Lawson averages more points, one less assists, one more steal, and is shooting a stupid 50.7% from the floor this year.


Mike Conley-NO
Ricky Rubio-No
Both are better defenders.

Outside of point production, the numbers between DJ and Conley are about even, with DJ having slight edges in rebounding and assists while Conley has a huge steels advantage. Conley is also shooting a higher FG and FT%.

Rubio, as a rookie (starter), is averaging 13 points, 10 assists, 6 rebounds, and 3 steals per game. Not to mention that they're on pace to win far more games this year (in a shortened season) than last year with Rubio being the only notable player acquisition.

[ballwhore]

So then you agree with me right...lol im gone until later about to hit this houston traffic

[moredunks]

Both Augustin and Walker have shown they can play off the bench in either guard position. They give up a lot defensively when one is plugged in at the two-guard, but it's an option.

So if they can hang on to Augustin for a reasonable amount, why not? His value isn't going to plummet either way, since any team willing to invest serious assets in a trade would want to extend him first.

The team is (at least) two years away from being good, and they want to rebuild through the draft. Augustin on a three-year deal, even if he winds up being a little overpaid, can't seriously damage that plan. And even in the miniscule chance it winds up being a disastrous signing, they can use the stretch exemption on him.

All the above goes for DJ White, too, except there's a real need for them to clear out the logjam at the power forward spot and get Biyombo minutes. I'd hate to give up on him so soon, but he's pretty much the only guy there who actually has any trade value at this point. If they can get a late first-rounder for him, I'd take it.

[Chef]

Trust it's just a feeling out stage. My feeling is it is a set up for a sign and trade. Wouldn't it be something if Higgins and Cho said ballwhore said 21 million so i think we can do 19...lmao Both sides already know what they are going to do or not regardless.

figured that. just wanted to make sure.

[SWedd523]

Oh, I'm not riding him either. But he's better than Rubio (imagine if we had shooters and people to pass to - DJ's been the only consistent 3pt threat for the past two seasons)
See my previous post. Rubio is playing every bit as well as DJ, which says a lot for a rookie compared to a 4th year player. He doesn't score as much but he gives you more production across the board than DJ. Oh, and he's three years younger to boot. Safe to say GMs would rather have him than DJ?



Kyrie (He just got here, jury's out, fair?)
18/5/3 as a rookie on that terrible team is nothing to scoff at, especially when you consider how efficient he's been (48.2, 41.9, 86.7). And he's 5(!!!) years younger than DJ. Again, safe to say GMs would rather have him than DJ?


Wall (who's looked ass this season - even last year, when he wasn't free to run up and down the court he looked almost terrible in the halfcourt on both sides of the ball)
Even with him "looking like ass this season" he's still giving you 15/7/5, which is better than DJ's raw production, and you won't find anybody who would honestly say DJ is better or more talented than Wall. He's also three years younger than DJ.


What I'm saying is, to a young and rebuilding team, what better attainable point guards are out there?
Doesn't that kind of beg the question of, "Then why IS he attainable?"

[murphman]

if we sign and trade for who then...

I've got an idea as to who may be looking hard at him, Portland. They only have one true PG on the roster who is expiring (Felton). They are probably also interested in Boris because they are super thin at 4 & 5 right now. They are a playoff team who wants to win now but also know that they need a younger PG to add to their future and this would do it. Not sure who we could get in return but I doubt any future 1st rounders would be in the picture since 2015 is the first year they can offer. Perhaps we can convince them to take TT instead of Boris. Perhaps we can get Batum out of it. Not sure.

[moredunks]

They spend a fair amount of time with Gerald at PF and Aldridge at C, so they're deeper in the frontcourt than you might think.

[TheBeagle]

Good info as always, ballwhore!
Good knowledge as always, SWedd!
+1s around

It'll be mostly sad to see him go, I mean, he's been through a shitstorm with LB and got through it and always busts his ass, but I think it is time each party go their own way. With where we are in the rebuilding mode (its infancy) and our financial situation, as much as we like and respect DJ, how can we justify 7M per on him? Does he deserve it? Sure. Just not from us at this point. Like Swedd says, we have to go with the cheaper, younger, most recent lottery pick at this point in the process. Let's just hope Cho works some magic in a sign and trade.

As for DJ2, I say play it like we did with Kwame. With Boris out after the year and Tyrus's....inconsistencies, I'd sure like to hold on to him but only within reason, as, like Kwame, I believe he can be easily replaced at a cheaper price if it comes to it.

[DY_nasty]

See my previous post. Rubio is playing every bit as well as DJ, which says a lot for a rookie compared to a 4th year player. He doesn't score as much but he gives you more production across the board than DJ. Oh, and he's three years younger to boot. Safe to say GMs would rather have him than DJ?Two things. One, DJ doesn't have anywhere close to the offensive talent around him. Secondly, I said available. Rubio isn't going anywhere.

18/5/3 as a rookie on that terrible team is nothing to scoff at, especially when you consider how efficient he's been (48.2, 41.9, 86.7). And he's 5(!!!) years younger than DJ. Again, safe to say GMs would rather have him than DJ?Same applies as above about availability. Also, just got here. Plenty of rookies come in and have a hot start. Not saying he's bad or good. Just saying the jury's out, fair? (like before :P)

Even with him "looking like ass this season" he's still giving you 15/7/5, which is better than DJ's raw production, and you won't find anybody who would honestly say DJ is better or more talented than Wall. He's also three years younger than DJ.You've seen the Wizards play this year? He looks a mess. The entire team does too but he's playing worse than he ever has across the board. From his shot selection to the way he runs that offense. Some of that can be blamed on Flip, sure, but other than the hype from last year and his game in the open court, he's bad. Really bad. Will he shake it off? Sure hope so.
Doesn't that kind of beg the question of, "Then why IS he attainable?"He's only attainable because he's at the end of his contract, we went BPA and drafted a guy at the same position, and we've got an owner known for being cheap (whether its true or not).

Let me know if I'm sounding ridiculous. I think I'm being pretty level about everything here.

[dav7z]

Trust it's just a feeling out stage. My feeling is it is a set up for a sign and trade. Wouldn't it be something if Higgins and Cho said ballwhore said 21 million so i think we can do 19...lmao Both sides already know what they are going to do or not regardless.

Got that feeling last night when DJ White didn't smell the floor . A lot of times if something is about to go down players sit out the night be for the trade? So DJ and White for ? Came to mind . I could see a sign and trade come easy if 21 is the number you working with . DJ White would be a great filler all so .Either way 21 is not overpaying at all.

[ballwhore]

No exact mention of years or money but don't expect it to get done too far apart unless a sign and trade they pretty much are offering qualifying money. No sign and trade then bye bye seemed pretty perturbed. We'll see:g:

[dav7z]

No exact mention of years or money but don't expect it to get done too far apart unless a sign and trade they pretty much are offering qualifying money. No sign and trade then bye bye seemed pretty perturbed. We'll see:g:

Why i hate negoations during the season . But i guess the lockout caused this. I just hope DJ can keep contracts out of his game . But anything corncerning money affects ones life .

[Proudiddy]

Sorry, late to the thread so I'm kind of confused and just read a few posts but, lemme see if I have this right...

*DJ didn't want to re-sign/extend, was actually looking to sign elsewhere after the season.
*DJ and/or his agent offered the number they're looking at for what they'd sign in order to extend with the Bobcats 3y/23.5m
*Bobcats cheap ass front office aren't offering anywhere near that number but are instead offering a much lower amount for him to extend with us.
*DJ feels insulted and will leave if the current offer stands

Questions:
*Does DJ want to leave still or is he willing to stay for the duration of the extension if he signs one?
*BW said we offered qualifying money... What would that be for him, like 5 mil?

[spectre]

Per Sham his QO is 4,385,416.

If I remember correctly that's pretty much what they offered Felton in his "eligible for extension" year. During the offseason before he took the QO they went higher...some rumors having the offer up near 7 per.

[Demon DeaCat]

I had pretty much ignored this thread too since I didn't realized it had morphed into a discussion about DJA instead of DJW. I'm encouraged that he's only looking for something in the 7 /per range. I'm disappointed that we aren't willing to meet that as it seems to be a very reasonable number. That being said, I would expect our initial offer to be low and I assume we'd be willing to negotiate up from there so hopefully we can still get something done. I've stated my position on other threads but I'm also not in favor of the revolving door concept we seem to have adopted with our young players. We've got plenty of cap space on the horizon, and 3 years doesn't tie us down for long if we wanted to trade him later or move in a different direction with Kemba, another draft pick, etc. No reason not to do it IMO.

[Proudiddy]

Per Sham his QO is 4,385,416.

If I remember correctly that's pretty much what they offered Felton in his "eligible for extension" year. During the offseason before he took the QO they went higher...some rumors having the offer up near 7 per.

Welp, that seals it then... Sounds like we're going cheap ass again and I have now begun to fully expect us to let DJ walk with no compensation because we're too cheap to pay him.

[ohara831]

Like the idea of keeping DJ White. He has proven to be a valuable commodity. Solid role player who can give you 20 minutes and 10 points in any given game. Those are the kind of players who help you get over the hump in difficult games.

I would be sick to my stomach if this team lets DJA walk and gets nothing in return. Get him signed. If it is a sign and trade, so be it. But just dont let him walk for nothing. That would totally suck. He has value that is far exceeding his $ coming off the salary. If anything, he can get us a mid 1st rounder in that #15-#20 range in this draft. But to let him walk would be idiotic.

[spectre]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=augusdj01&y1=2012&p2=sessira01&y2=2012&p3=farmajo01&y3=2012&p4=jackja01&y4=2012

All these guys are 5 million or less.

Just saying.

[ballwhore]

Jack makes 5.2 this year and 5.8 next and trust he will get a raise

Session under 5 but he'll get paid next year

Farmar (what's the point of his mention)

on another note

Hinrich makes 8 mil

Jameer makes 7.3 this yeaar 7.8 next

Conley 6.5 then 7.1 escalating to I think almost 9 mil

Felton makes 7.5

Calderon get this 9.7 then 10.5 Just saying

[ballwhore]

Spec can you do the comparisons on those

[dav7z]

Hes posting better numbers than any of those three . I would love to see how he ranks with players making between 7 and 9 milion. Can that be done?

[ballwhore]

jameer, conley, felton, calderon please Spectre

[spectre]

Spec can you do the comparisons on those

I'll try to later BW...but as you can tell I didn't really do an "in depth" on any of those guys. If you want go to that page, look at the top and you'll see the pathing...choose "player comparisons" and plug in who you want.

My point was that FOR US (and that's the relevant point here when guys are saying we're cheap, which BTW I won't disagree with in general) and our situation we can get similar production at a cheaper rate than what DJ is asking for. I'm not saying DJ isn't worth it, but the question we all have to ask as Bobcats' fans is if he's worth that to us...esp. considering where we're at right now.

I feel like I've been fairly consistent in that stance.

Farmar is just another option we could probably trade for who's relatively cheap (4m give or take) who is putting up very solid stats.

Those last 5 guys you listed I consider highly overpaid. They may (or may not) be worth it to their respective teams but now way are they worth that to us.

[ballwhore]

Gotcha..of course i'm looking at overall worth for DJ

[spectre]

Hes posting better numbers than any of those three . I would love to see how he ranks with players making between 7 and 9 milion. Can that be done?

Actually he's not.

Farmar has a higher PER, TS%, FG%, eFG%...almost everything across the board. DJ is slightly higher in AST%.
Jack has a higher PER, TS% (fairly close tho), slightly lower eFG%, FG%.
Sessions has the worst numbers of the bunch but he's still at a PER of 16.3. Crappy FG% but decent assist rate.

All these guys are fairly close.

Edit: The thing DJ has going for him over those guys is he still has potential to get even better. The others are probably maxed out.

[spectre]

Gotcha..of course i'm looking at overall worth for DJ

As well you should be. You and I have different priorities and I would like for you to always realize that when I post this stuff. Other than his defense I REALLY like how he's played this year. He deserves to get paid.

[TheBeagle]

As well you should be. You and I have different priorities and I would like for you to always realize that when I post this stuff. Other than his defense I REALLY like how he's played this year. He deserves to get paid. Well said, spectre. That's why I'd love a sign and trade so that DJ gets paid like he deserves but not by us, yet we get asset(s) in return.

God, if we just weren't so stupid with the Tyrus trade/extention this might all be a moot point anyway...

[ballwhore]

Spectre Farmar doesnt start and only plays like 19-20 minutes a game so that's skewed numbers. I look at per whole game averages that's is closet to real to me anyway. Hell if dj played only 20 minutes his per 36 would be out the roof. Just saw him have twenty in 18 minutes and then 26 by the time he played 38. Anyway my link is long but here are my comparisons. By the way i'm never offended by anything on here I just took your post as trying to say DJ should be paid as those guys were not that he could be replaced by them for less money and the same results. I still feel his numbers are better with a different core of players. Hope my link works..lol


http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=augusdj01&y1=2012&p2=feltora01&y2=2012&p3=conlemi01&y3=2012&p4=caldejo01&y4=2012

[ohara831]

I'd love to keep DJ at somewhere between $6-$7 mil/yr. Something he can be happy with and the team can. I like having both he and Kemba, either on the floor together at times, but at least to spell each other and keep fresh. But if we NEED to trade him, then at least he would be at a very reasonable and attractive price for the adequate offer.

[Chef]

As well you should be. You and I have different priorities and I would like for you to always realize that when I post this stuff. Other than his defense I REALLY like how he's played this year. He deserves to get paid.

this one post describes my attitude toward dj exactly. and for this reason, i won't be upset when he is putting up even better numbers and getting attention nationally and we again LOOK like we made a bad deal. the fact of the matter is we suck, dj isn't chris paul or derrick rose and his numbers are about maxed out with our shit team. by the time the team catches up to dj it would be too late.

[dav7z]

Actually he's not.

Farmar has a higher PER, TS%, FG%, eFG%...almost everything across the board. DJ is slightly higher in AST%.
Jack has a higher PER, TS% (fairly close tho), slightly lower eFG%, FG%.
Sessions has the worst numbers of the bunch but he's still at a PER of 16.3. Crappy FG% but decent assist rate.

All these guys are fairly close.

Edit: The thing DJ has going for him over those guys is he still has potential to get even better. The others are probably maxed out.

Thanks Spectre can all ways count on you.

[spectre]

Spectre Farmar doesnt start and only plays like 19-20 minutes a game so that's skewed numbers. I look at per whole game averages that's is closet to real to me anyway. Hell if dj played only 20 minutes his per 36 would be out the roof. Just saw him have twenty in 18 minutes and then 26 by the time he played 38. Anyway my link is long but here are my comparisons. By the way i'm never offended by anything on here I just took your post as trying to say DJ should be paid as those guys were not that he could be replaced by them for less money and the same results. I still feel his numbers are better with a different core of players. Hope my link works..lol


http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=augusdj01&y1=2012&p2=feltora01&y2=2012&p3=conlemi01&y3=2012&p4=caldejo01&y4=2012

What's really funny? I'm not really a stats guy...more of the "eye test" type that likes to pair it with stats. I don't have LP tho so I seldom see the other players except when they play us.

Totally agreed...you can't interpolate numbers up and expect the same production. If DJ goes elsewhere we'd only be looking for 20m or less from a backup however, so that and their lower rate would more fit what we need.

If I were DJ (and we've both hit on this one before) I would not want to stay here. It'll be 3 years at least before we can do anything. He didn't want to be drafted here and he has to be purely sick of losing. Hell we're all sick of losing...but at least we don't have to endure it like the players do.

I'd ask for a S&T and give them a list of teams I'd agree with. If the Bobcats couldn't accommodate that then I'd let them know I was going to accept the QO and hit FA in a year...and they'd get nothing. That's DJ's leverage.

[spectre]

Jesus Christ look at Felton's numbers. He really needs to re-think his offseason habits.

[spectre]

@rick_bonnell (https://twitter.com/#%21/rick_bonnell) Rick Bonnell

#Bobcats (https://twitter.com/#%21/search?q=%23Bobcats) will not be extending D.J. Augustin or D.J. White before the deadline. That means each eventually becomes a restricted FA.

http://twitter.com/rick_bonnell

So both will become RFA.

[Chef]

http://twitter.com/rick_bonnell

So both will become RFA.

so my first reaction is what the hell are we doing? why would we go through the felton fiasco all over again? then the logical side of me says that this is nothing big and hopefully alludes to a sign and trade. someone please convince me of the logical side before i pull my hair out in frustration.

[ziggy]

-- renamed this thread just for the sake of sanity.

[Proudiddy]

http://twitter.com/rick_bonnell

So both will become RFA.

Sounds familiar... don't expect us to get anything out of this and to come out looking stupid as usual. Best of luck to DJ, he'll have his choice of who to sign with.

[Pepperz]

We are not going to get either one of these guys for cheap. DJA wants to get paid. Hes not part of the future plans so lets trade his ass for draft picks. DJW is going to want to get paid, maybe not as much but when you see TT making 7 mil, his agent is going to use that to somewhat of an advantage.

[Marvel]

So what are the pros and cons of "not extending a player like DJ(Augustin)? and letting him become a RFA? Do we lose, gain anything?

[Bosnian-Bobcats-Fan]

I dont get it does this move mean we will sign and trade DJ in the offseason or actively try to trade him before march 15?

[spectre]

So what are the pros and cons of "not extending a player like DJ(Augustin)? and letting him become a RFA? Do we lose, gain anything?

Because of the way Felton played out I tend to look at it as a bad thing.

For higher dollar players (or those who are unrealistic in their asking price) this stage is usually where they ask for retail like many would. Since we have matching rights most times it's prudent to let the market set the contract. You run the risk tho of some team majorly overpaying, so you either match the bloated offer or you just let the player walk. A team can also offer a huge signing bonus, basically making it hell for a lot of teams to match (think Matthews at Portland).

There's at least 3 teams that could really use DJ and they have a lot of space under the cap. At least one of those teams (Toronto) has a history of overpaying FAs.

From our POV I just can't see this as being a good thing.

[spectre]

I dont get it does this move mean we will sign and trade DJ in the offseason or actively try to trade him before march 15?

Since it's reached this stage any team trading for him will have to negotiate like we do...so they would want to know his asking price AND if he'd sign the deal with them. If he won't and ends up being a rental for that team his value in a trade goes down. Any S&T will of course have to have DJ's permission, but IF those teams don't have cap we gain a little leverage back. Nothing like we'd have if we'd done this earlier tho. If they do have cap we have even less as they could just sign him to a contract we wouldn't match.

[SWedd523]

The good thing is easy to see. Locking into DJ is doing exactly what we're trying to avoid by "rebuilding". That is, locking into mediocrity. You don't resign average players when you suck. It makes sense for the Lakers, Thunder, Heat, or some other team that has an established star or three wants to keep a mediocre player around.

But for a team looking to find the best players possible without an semblance of a chance to compete for a title in the near future, it makes no sense and amounts to throwing money away. The best move is to trade him, if we can't find a suitable deal then let him walk. I have no desire of turning into the perpetual 7-10th seed for a capped out squad.

Good job Cho.

[spectre]

The good thing is easy to see. Locking into DJ is doing exactly what we're trying to avoid by "rebuilding". That is, locking into mediocrity. You don't resign average players when you suck. It makes sense for the Lakers, Thunder, Heat, or some other team that has an established star or three wants to keep a mediocre player around.

But for a team looking to find the best players possible without an semblance of a chance to compete for a title in the near future, it makes no sense and amounts to throwing money away. The best move is to trade him, if we can't find a suitable deal then let him walk. I have no desire of turning into the perpetual 7-10th seed for a capped out squad.

Good job Cho.

I don't disagree with that...but our "most tradable asset" that we're willing to trade just took a hit. I've been saying all along that we should have moved him at the first of the season in order to maximize his value. Now assuming he's moved we'll be lucky to get a late 1st. The dreams of a lottery or even mid 1st pick for DJ ain't happening IMO.

[tondi]

Actually the way it played out with Felton looks pretty good in retrospect. If we had paid him big money we would have an 8mil a year, fat, regressing, terrible PG with a per under 11 instead of DJ and Kemba.

I hated to lose Ray like everybody else but it would be hard to stomach paying him big money for the next 4-5 years if we had locked him into a long term contract. If this is the best he can do during a contract year just imagine how he would look if he had that fat, guaranteed, long term contract.

[Chevalier au Lion]

DJ is our principal active. The should trade him and find something interesthing before he leaves the team free.

[murphman]

I don't disagree with that...but our "most tradable asset" that we're willing to trade just took a hit. I've been saying all along that we should have moved him at the first of the season in order to maximize his value. Now assuming he's moved we'll be lucky to get a late 1st. The dreams of a lottery or even mid 1st pick for DJ ain't happening IMO.

Don't be surprised if getting decent 1st round picks was never really in the plans for the FO come trade deadline. Instead they are probably thinking about moving both DJs (and hopefully Boris) for any combination of these five things: 1) Expiring contracts, 2) Young guys still on their rookie contracts who are spending a majority of their time on the bench, 3) Late 1st round picks or 2nd round picks, 4) (the most important yet hardest to do) Package a bad contract of ours (TT, Diop, Maggette) as part of the trade for future cap relief, 5) Trade exceptions

As we are seeing, many players were not ready for the grind of this season and injuries are mounting early. With the trade deadline pushed back to mid March, more are expected and a strong playoff contender may be very willing to take on a bad contract of ours just to get either DJ to help them make a run at a championship. Lots can happen in the next couple of months.

[Proudiddy]

Actually the way it played out with Felton looks pretty good in retrospect. If we had paid him big money we would have an 8mil a year, fat, regressing, terrible PG with a per under 11 instead of DJ and Kemba.

I hated to lose Ray like everybody else but it would be hard to stomach paying him big money for the next 4-5 years if we had locked him into a long term contract. If this is the best he can do during a contract year just imagine how he would look if he had that fat, guaranteed, long term contract.

I didn't want to re-sign Felton, my point was we could've moved him for something but instead he walked for nothing... He ended up being a piece that helped NY get Billups and Melo. I never really cared for his game, but he had some value for other teams that could've helped us in rebuilding.

[ohara831]

http://twitter.com/rick_bonnell

So both will become RFA.

I really liked the idea of both Kemba and DJ together. But clearly this is not in the plans for us. I hope we trade him then prior to the 3/15 deadline. I will hate like hell to see him just walk and we get nothing but the cap space. Just would not like it. Maybe it would be smart from a pocket book perspective for MJ, but when you own a damn NBA team, that should not be the driving force. If it is, you got no busiess owning the team as you are not financially strong enough. Cant see how that is MJ as he has those other streams of income, so it just doesn't make sense to me unless MJ and Cho have already decided they are going to ship him out before 3/15 to the best offer.

[docend24]

I don't disagree with that...but our "most tradable asset" that we're willing to trade just took a hit. I've been saying all along that we should have moved him at the first of the season in order to maximize his value. Now assuming he's moved we'll be lucky to get a late 1st. The dreams of a lottery or even mid 1st pick for DJ ain't happening IMO.

I feel the same way, but doing a trade with Lakers would make sense - i think it is reasonable to expect their pick is not out of question (it is like 19th will be a bit worse with DJ) and DJ as a one year rental is not a big issue as they as a big market can overpay and they will have QO and will match anything. They just need means to get him as team over the cap have limited options how to pay FAs now. They have all their picks, Mavs' one and couple of late second rounders (Bulls, Nuggets '13), we ould be getting Blake in return I guess. That'S type of trade we can expect I guess. Blake, LAL1st maybe a late second rounder or two to take y flyer on some euro guy who-will-never-come-to-nba-but-you-never-know.

[docend24]

I didn't want to re-sign Felton, my point was we could've moved him for something but instead he walked for nothing... He ended up being a piece that helped NY get Billups and Melo. I never really cared for his game, but he had some value for other teams that could've helped us in rebuilding.

I guess that means it was a good decision to let him go. Look how he helped Knicks to shoot themselves in a foot with that trade. They have got amnestied player and ineffective chucker with superstar image.

[docend24]

Can anyone remind me how the current sign and trade rules are? I know it was heavily restricted but don't remember the details.

[Pepperz]

Why is everybody so antsy about getting picks this year? I know its a strong draft and you can really get some talent but why dont we find a sucker for DJA like Chicago did to us with Tyrus. He was on a contract year and we took a gamble by giving them a first along with expiring contracts to make a run to the playoffs. It didnt work out as planned and so we blew it up. We still owe the Bulls the pick, its just a matter of when. We are ok for now as its top 12 protected but the window will get smaller and smaller as the protection starts lowering. If we dont turn this ship around by the time, we have to give the Bulls the pick while we are still in rebuilding stage which will only suck that much more for us. They could end up like Detroit did back in the 2003 draft. Get 2nd overall after coming off a Eastern Conference run. Image if they made the right choice and got Melo.

Find a middle of the pack team that is in that race for the final couple playoff spots that needs a PG. Toss in Doris to make it that bit more exciting to them. Dont take back any contracts. Get a future 1st round or 2 and just wait to cash in on them later.

[Chef]

i really think he will end up in either utah or lakers with or without other players (see lakers trade i posted in dj trades thread) and us ending up with gsw pick or more likely one or both of the lakers firsts. the lakers really really need a pg and some front court help.

[polarcat]

I hope some team like Chef mentions needs a young PG and we can sell high on DJ. I can't remember a time when Augustin's value has been as high as it is right now. Even though the combo of he and Kemba are more exciting, I'd prefer to move Augustin out of our future plans. Before Kemba was here, I was cool with DJ, but with the drafting of Kemba and his ceiling, it becomes redundant. Especially since we are in full rebuild, moving DJ would more than likely give us more losses this year with a rookie as our starting PG, but will help in June when we are drafting higher. It sucks because I truly like DJ and feel like his time in Charlotte was tainted from day 1 because of Grandpa misusing him and breaking his confidence. I wish the best for him and feel like his slot in this league is as a Jason Terry type of energy/6th man/fill-in starting PG. I personally wish we would just continue with the cleaning house process that started last year with Gerald and Jack, finish it this year with Augustin, Diaw, Thomas, and as many of the 3 bums (Carroll, Najera, Diop). Moving forward with Kemba, Henderson, Bismack, White, Mullens, and Reggie Williams and whomever we acquire via the trading of the earlier mentioned pieces plus our 2012 draft picks. Sprinkle in a couple of vets a la Batum, Gallinari, or even a Jason Thompson or JJ Hickson and we are looking good moving forward

[CatNation1]

question to any CBA expert: if DJ was traded does his RFA status carry over to the new team? or is that a right that only his drafted team has and he becomes unrestricted.. :confused:

[spectre]

Yup, the RFA status goes with him.

Tyrus is a good example...but we were the ONLY team willing to give up the 1st. See how that's worked out so far? Looks totally stupid now for our part.

Doc...LAL is a good idea. I imagine DJ would agree to them and they'd probably be willing, esp. if we took Blake. I'd want both theirs & the Dallas 1st in that case tho. They could just absorb DJ in their TPE from Odom...then I could see just their 1st.

Chef I'd LOVE the GSW pick as a return and maybe Cho can get it for us. It'd shock me if he did tho.

[Marvel]

Because of the way Felton played out I tend to look at it as a bad thing.

For higher dollar players (or those who are unrealistic in their asking price) this stage is usually where they ask for retail like many would. Since we have matching rights most times it's prudent to let the market set the contract. You run the risk tho of some team majorly overpaying, so you either match the bloated offer or you just let the player walk. A team can also offer a huge signing bonus, basically making it hell for a lot of teams to match (think Matthews at Portland).

There's at least 3 teams that could really use DJ and they have a lot of space under the cap. At least one of those teams (Toronto) has a history of overpaying FAs.

From our POV I just can't see this as being a good thing.

Ok i see now, so by doing this our FO are letting the market dictate DJ's value, which isn't a good thing since some teams (like you said) will overpay for him if that player fills a need.

I would flip the fuck out if Cho and MJ let DJ walk for nothing, that better not happen. I would at least be happy with a lottery pick in this years draft and a quality role player for depth since it's obvious we're not keeping the other DJ here long term.

And i hope to God we don't trade him for Devin Harris.

[SWedd523]

I don't disagree with that...but our "most tradable asset" that we're willing to trade just took a hit. I've been saying all along that we should have moved him at the first of the season in order to maximize his value. Now assuming he's moved we'll be lucky to get a late 1st. The dreams of a lottery or even mid 1st pick for DJ ain't happening IMO.

DJ wasn't ever going to get a top 12 pick to begin with, so a mid round pick is about all you can expect from him. And just because we didn't resign him doesn't make him a "late first if we're lucky" trade piece. At any rate, I'd rather have a mid to late first round pick than be forced to resign him anyway.

[docend24]

Well, no way we could get two first round picks for expiring Augustin. Re-signed one maybe but that ship sailed.

[spectre]

DJ wasn't ever going to get a top 12 pick to begin with, so a mid round pick is about all you can expect from him. And just because we didn't resign him doesn't make him a "late first if we're lucky" trade piece. At any rate, I'd rather have a mid to late first round pick than be forced to resign him anyway.

Why doesn't it? Which team is going to give us a mid pick (15-20) when he hits RFA in a couple of months? He can't be negotiated with until the end of the season right? If that's the case every team that would trade for him would at least put forth the argument that he's just a season rental...and with good cause. LAL might give up a 1st pretty easily for that knowing Hollywood would give them an edge like it always does.

I liked the idea of GSW's pick outta Utah. They already have a big youth movement and can afford to lose the pick, esp. because DJ fills their biggest need. Like Loserx said on RGM's trade board tho, no way they're giving up that pick when he's just a rental.

In a S&T we might could have done that...but probably not now.

[SWedd523]

If that's the way you think it'll go down then I'm still not going to be bitter about it. I trust that Cho knows what he's doing

[spectre]

If that's the way you think it'll go down then I'm still not going to be bitter about it. I trust that Cho knows what he's doing

I guess because of our history I've become a "worst case scenario" type of guy. Hopefully Cho does know what he's doing.

[Scottley Crue]

I wouldn't mind extending DJ White, but that's purely based on what the cost is. I believe Cho is keeping his options open with these moves. There are others who look like they'll become restricted free agents that perhaps make more sense to spend money on based on who they seem believe is their core. It appears Brook Lopez and Nic Batum won't be extended, so right there are some options that most likely wouldn't be a available if we went ahead and tied up significant cap space in both DJs. And both can still be traded, though not extending them does complicate it a bit, I agree. I just think this gives Cho plenty of options going forward...option to let the market dictate their value, option to at least try for other RFA (I know both DJs have cap holds, but they can rescind QO's if need be) and option to still trade them this year. I think that's the way to go...give yourself multiple options to improve.

[CatNation1]

when you are rebuilding you dont give long term starter money to someone who struggles to consistently give mediocre performances

[SWedd523]

when you are rebuilding you dont give long term starter money to someone who struggles to consistently give mediocre performances

http://www.threadbombing.com/data/media/22/dr-mccoy-and-captain-kirk-approve.gif

[SWedd523]

You've seen the Wizards play this year? He looks a mess. The entire team does too but he's playing worse than he ever has across the board. From his shot selection to the way he runs that offense. Some of that can be blamed on Flip, sure, but other than the hype from last year and his game in the open court, he's bad. Really bad. Will he shake it off? Sure hope so.

Wall's last 5 games: 24.4 points, 8.4 assists, 8.2 rebounds, 1.2 steals, 1.2 blocks
DJ's last 5 games: 12.6 points, 7.2 assists, 2.2 rebounds, 1.4 steals, 0 blocks

[Zoolander]

I just wish we'd have a big trade in the league already. It feels like teams are scared to pull the trigger...

[Chef]

did not see the game just read the box score. couple questions:

why did dj only play 8 min? was he injured? is he going to be traded?

why did our bench play so many minutes?

how did biz look? his numbers were pretty good, was it earned or junk time?

[enigmaboy89]

did not see the game just read the box score. couple questions:

why did dj only play 8 min? was he injured? is he going to be traded?

why did our bench play so many minutes?

how did biz look? his numbers were pretty good, was it earned or junk time?

Yes DJ got injuried in the 1st with a toe injury.

[dav7z]

Time for Kemba to put up or shut up . This damn small line up or what i call gemic ball sucks. I just can't stand to see point guards get posted on consistantly. Either sign DJ or trade him . Or a s+t . Just get rid of that damn small back court . So far Higgins is looking as good as the other two ?

[superb1]

Perfect time to really see what he can do with DJA out for a few games.

[ballwhore]

bobcats offer 3yrs 18 million a couple hours ago talking about they see him and kemba part of the long term plan with kemba being a change of pace guard at both spots

[The Milk]

bobcats offer 3yrs 18 million a couple hours ago talking about they see him and kemba part of the long term plan with kemba being a change of pace guard at both spots

Source? 10 char

[Bosnian-Bobcats-Fan]

bobcats offer 3yrs 18 million a couple hours ago talking about they see him and kemba part of the long term plan with kemba being a change of pace guard at both spots

i honestly doubt DJ would take that.....so they expect DJ to be the long term starter and kemba coming off the bench? i dont see that working to be honest. Its either one or the other

[ballwhore]

either or depends on match ups some alternating shit wtf.....also offered dj white 3yr 9mil neither one is taking it

[CatNation1]

lol theyre probably tellin him whatever they can that will get him to sign it. 3 yr 18 mil DJ contract would be easy to trade. Kemba already called himself (and Biz) the future of the team in his last rookie report. he wont accept being an energy guy off the bench. and im sure the coaches are well aware of that

[Bosnian-Bobcats-Fan]

either or depends on match ups some alternating shit wtf.....also offered dj white 3yr 9mil neither one is taking it

does he expect to be traded if he doesnt sign the extension?.......

[spectre]

either or depends on match ups some alternating shit wtf.....also offered dj white 3yr 9mil neither one is taking it

That's pretty good movement for the FO if their last was around the QO. Have they brought up any mention of a S&T BH? The deadline is Wednesday and from the Bobcats' perspective I still think they need to do something by then if they want to get the most out of their asset.

[Chef]

That's pretty good movement for the FO if their last was around the QO. Have they brought up any mention of a S&T BH? The deadline is Wednesday and from the Bobcats' perspective I still think they need to do something by then if they want to get the most out of their asset.

wait? the deadline for S&T is wednesday? what are trade possibilities if we don't act by the deadline?

[Bosnian-Bobcats-Fan]

That's pretty good movement for the FO if their last was around the QO. Have they brought up any mention of a S&T BH? The deadline is Wednesday and from the Bobcats' perspective I still think they need to do something by then if they want to get the most out of their asset.

Gotta trade DJ get something from him cant let him walk like Felton did. I dont Think either him or Kemba would want to be coming off the bench long term

[ballwhore]

Yeah they could be telling him anything but this ain't for free we are still talking millions. We'll see what comes out of it when he tells them he is rejecting the offer tomorrow. He wants to be moved though.

[spectre]

wait? the deadline for S&T is wednesday? what are trade possibilities if we don't act by the deadline?

The last day to extend guys who will be RFAs at the end of the season is Wednesday. After that he also can't be signed & traded til after the season is over.

Edit:

The trade deadline is March 15th @ 3 PM ET.

This post had all sorts of FAIL.

YES...Wednesday is the last day for S&T DJ until the season's done.

[Bosnian-Bobcats-Fan]

I wonder if he will openly tell managment he wants to be traded. He doesnt seem likethat kind of guy though. Seems like a guy who hides his frustration and just plays the game he loves. any other info BW?

[dav7z]

Source? 10 char

This sorce is better than any thing you will find . Belive all of Bobcatsplanet hes legit

[dav7z]

Yeah they could be telling him anything but this ain't for free we are still talking millions. We'll see what comes out of it when he tells them he is rejecting the offer tomorrow. He wants to be moved though.

Will his agent come back with a counter offer ? Didn't i read you saying 7 per well get it done . If thats true they very close ?
With the market like it is a three year 9 milion offer is decent . White might not get offered better or even that good in free agency. He should jump on that . He don't have nearly the exposure he needs to get much more.
Does management know he wants to be moved? Or is instersted in a S+T ?
Thoughts on both offers ballwhore?

[Chef]

The last day to extend guys who will be RFAs at the end of the season is Wednesday. After that he also can't be signed & traded til after the season is over.

Edit:

The trade deadline is March 15th @ 3 PM ET.

This post had all sorts of FAIL.

YES...Wednesday is the last day for S&T DJ until the season's done.

so if no S&T by Wed. no S&T at all. but we could still trade him as a RFA on a rookie contract thru march 15th, 1500 hrs. and with a verbal from dj that he would sign an offer it could still go through ie to lakers (after howard fiasco is settled). basically, if the lakers got desperate for a pg we could trade him as rfa at 3 mil for tpe and mavs pick or my prefered deal dj, diaw for blake, walton, mavs and lakers picks

[Chef]

Will his agent come back with a counter offer ? Didn't i read you saying 7 per well get it done . If thats true they very close ?
With the market like it is a three year 9 milion offer is decent . White might not get offered better or even that good in free agency. He should jump on that . He don't have nearly the exposure he needs to get much more.
Does management know he wants to be moved?
Thoughts on both offers ballwhore?

problem is dav the cats basically told dj he will forever be sharing the floor general role with kemba. don't think he would stay even if the money was what he wanted. he would probably ask for s&t to team where he is clear cut starter going into day 1 of his new contract.

[Icky Thump]

Hope we can sign and trade. I don't think it's gonna happen though cause I don't think the rest of the league believes he's as good as he thinks he is.

[DY_nasty]

Hope we can sign and trade. I don't think it's gonna happen though cause I don't think the rest of the league believes he's as good as he thinks he is.
We dislike DJ more than any other team by far. I've never seen anything like it. Even Larry Drew III had more people in his corner.

[Icky Thump]

I will say the "He wants to be moved" bs is beyond off-putting. I don't dislike him though. He's a pretty good player, I'm just not sure the rest of the league yet believes he is worth as much as he clearly wants to be paid like.

[Proudiddy]

Ballwhore, does DJ want to re-sign if they give him that 21 mil over 3 years? Also, wondering why DJW would've accept that deal... I'm guessing he wants about 5 per at the least.

[ballwhore]

S&T is a preference @Icky thump it won't be a problem around the rest of the league this is not some fly by night sh#t he has an agent that has already done feelers from other teams. An agent gets paid to let a player know things like his worth and would advise on his finding regardless of what a player thinks. Anyway, this whole situation has him ad DJW talking a lot and his situation is more about his place on the team with the commitment to Tyrus. (DJW) Money is close but the Tyrus issue is the problem.

[Chef]

S&T is a preference @Icky thump it won't be a problem around the rest of the league this is not some fly by night sh#t he has an agent that has already done feelers from other teams. An agent gets paid to let a player know things like his worth and would advise on his finding regardless of what a player thinks. Anyway, this whole situation has him ad DJW talking a lot and his situation is more about his place on the team with the commitment to Tyrus. (DJW) Money is close but the Tyrus issue is the problem.

tell dj to tell dj the "elite members" here at the planet may or may not be coming up with a plan to either a) frame tyrus with bringing a loaded gun to the practice facility or b) arranging for said loaded gun to accidentally go off and hit his knee. so tyrus is not an issue.

[Plowright]

One thing that scares me is that, we haev told DJ he is part of our future plans. If we haev already made our minds up on that then surley we are going to pretty much match most offers he gets in free agency? This means we could get screwed if someone like the Raps makes him a big offer. What if we match it as we think he is our future like 9 million a year or something. That would suck... Also i understand DJ White's concerns, he just wants to play and sees two guys Biz and TT who the organization puts ahead of him. I don't think the money is miles off for DJW, i think he just wants to play. I am still torn if we should give up on TT. I have always been a big fan of TT and have been clamering for him to get more PT since we traded for him as he always brought a spark. But this year he just seems so far off it, missing open Jumpers, lazy defense, turn overs. I know the argument was he is coming back from injury, but he looks just as bad now as he did when he first came back, its just we are keeping him on the court. I don't know, it is obvious our front office has faith in him, MJ picked him as a breakout player. I guess it is a question of when we cut our losses and run, or do we keep trying with him. I imagine these are the same questions DJW is thinking. I don't think any of us can say for sure what we should do with TT. But the longer this season goes on the more skeptical i become.

[Chef]

One thing that scares me is that, we haev told DJ he is part of our future plans. If we haev already made our minds up on that then surley we are going to pretty much match most offers he gets in free agency? This means we could get screwed if someone like the Raps makes him a big offer. What if we match it as we think he is our future like 9 million a year or something. That would suck... Also i understand DJ White's concerns, he just wants to play and sees two guys Biz and TT who the organization puts ahead of him. I don't think the money is miles off for DJW, i think he just wants to play. I am still torn if we should give up on TT. I have always been a big fan of TT and have been clamering for him to get more PT since we traded for him as he always brought a spark. But this year he just seems so far off it, missing open Jumpers, lazy defense, turn overs. I know the argument was he is coming back from injury, but he looks just as bad now as he did when he first came back, its just we are keeping him on the court. I don't know, it is obvious our front office has faith in him, MJ picked him as a breakout player. I guess it is a question of when we cut our losses and run, or do we keep trying with him. I imagine these are the same questions DJW is thinking. I don't think any of us can say for sure what we should do with TT. But the longer this season goes on the more skeptical i become.

if we tell dj otherwise he and his agent then go out and tell other teams and we don't nearly what we want in any deal or they lowball dj. it is best for all parties involved to mutually agree to the lie that dj is part of our future plans. if he truly were, we would not haggle over 3 years 23.5 and 3 years 20 million dollars.

[ohara831]

My preference is to keep him here with Kemba. 2nd would be a S&T to a place DJ is happy and for something we can use. Just do NOT want to see him walk and we get nothing but the cap space.

[superb1]

tell dj to tell dj the "elite members" here at the planet may or may not be coming up with a plan to either a) frame tyrus with bringing a loaded gun to the practice facility or b) arranging for said loaded gun to accidentally go off and hit his knee. so tyrus is not an issue.

OK, who's up for that mission. I'm about down for it now


One thing that scares me is that, we haev told DJ he is part of our future plans. If we haev already made our minds up on that then surley we are going to pretty much match most offers he gets in free agency? This means we could get screwed if someone like the Raps makes him a big offer. What if we match it as we think he is our future like 9 million a year or something. That would suck... Also i understand DJ White's concerns, he just wants to play and sees two guys Biz and TT who the organization puts ahead of him. I don't think the money is miles off for DJW, i think he just wants to play. I am still torn if we should give up on TT. I have always been a big fan of TT and have been clamering for him to get more PT since we traded for him as he always brought a spark. But this year he just seems so far off it, missing open Jumpers, lazy defense, turn overs. I know the argument was he is coming back from injury, but he looks just as bad now as he did when he first came back, its just we are keeping him on the court. I don't know, it is obvious our front office has faith in him, MJ picked him as a breakout player. I guess it is a question of when we cut our losses and run, or do we keep trying with him. I imagine these are the same questions DJW is thinking. I don't think any of us can say for sure what we should do with TT. But the longer this season goes on the more skeptical i become.

I can imagine DJW looking over at TT and shaking his head and wondering how much faith are they going to have in him. I thinking we can give him this season and if we trade Diaw it would be better as far as PT. With Diaw gone, we pay DJW and start him, move TT back to the bench if he does not improve and relegate him to Diop status and wish he would just disappear. I'm not saying DJW would be our long term solution at PF but he would be a valuable backup there.

I think TT is running out of options as coach chose UPS to start at SF so I guess the TT at SF project is about dead.

[ballwhore]

One thing that scares me is that, we haev told DJ he is part of our future plans. If we haev already made our minds up on that then surley we are going to pretty much match most offers he gets in free agency? This means we could get screwed if someone like the Raps makes him a big offer. What if we match it as we think he is our future like 9 million a year or something. That would suck... Also i understand DJ White's concerns, he just wants to play and sees two guys Biz and TT who the organization puts ahead of him. I don't think the money is miles off for DJW, i think he just wants to play. I am still torn if we should give up on TT. I have always been a big fan of TT and have been clamering for him to get more PT since we traded for him as he always brought a spark. But this year he just seems so far off it, missing open Jumpers, lazy defense, turn overs. I know the argument was he is coming back from injury, but he looks just as bad now as he did when he first came back, its just we are keeping him on the court. I don't know, it is obvious our front office has faith in him, MJ picked him as a breakout player. I guess it is a question of when we cut our losses and run, or do we keep trying with him. I imagine these are the same questions DJW is thinking. I don't think any of us can say for sure what we should do with TT. But the longer this season goes on the more skeptical i become.
I dont see them matching anything in free agency the talk was bs they are just not yet sure what they have with Kemba but the hype around the name is worth banking on in some ways. So why not try and commit 6 for three in the process of learning what you actually have in Kemba (Which will still be questionable unless you get some real pieces for guys to play with).

[ballwhore]

They have really no choice but to do a sign in trade or basic trade because if he makes it to the qo he is not coming back here....He is at some doctor in Califonia we'll see what shakes out later

[dav7z]

I dont see them matching anything in free agency the talk was bs they are just not yet sure what they have with Kemba but the hype around the name is worth banking on in some ways. So why not try and commit 6 for three in the process of learning what you actually have in Kemba (Which will still be questionable unless you get some real pieces for guys to play with).

Agreeded i can't see them matching any thing in free agency. But im still thinking they come up with the 7 per be for the deadline. Would DJ go to the Lakers or any other team for less , say like 6 per?

[Chef]

They have really no choice but to do a sign in trade or basic trade because if he makes it to the qo he is not coming back here....He is at some doctor in Califonia we'll see what shakes out later

would this be a consulting doctor for the lakers?

[CatNation1]

so basically if DJ isnt S&T'd today or tomorrow we're most likely going to lose him for nothing? lets see

[ballwhore]

Agreeded i can't see them matching any thing in free agency. But im still thinking they come up with the 7 per be for the deadline. Would DJ go to the Lakers or any other team for less , say like 6 per?
I'm going to ask this good question....@ chef no but one could only wish

[spectre]

so basically if DJ isnt S&T'd today or tomorrow we're most likely going to lose him for nothing? lets see

Not necessarily, but odds get worse for us in terms of the quality of our return. We can still sign him ourselves or S&T him after the season ends...the danger point IMO is if/when he accepts the QO.

[Chef]

so basically if DJ isnt S&T'd today or tomorrow we're most likely going to lose him for nothing? lets see

not necessairly. he still carries immense value as a RFA on a rookie contract for a team like the lakers or jazz. if come march 15th they are in desperate need for a point guard for the post season and possibly a future point guard he is only going to cost $3mil. both teams could easily absorb that and send a pick our way. dj is a very capable point guard and when he is good, he is really good. he would do really well next to kobe and add a ton of speed to that slow team. or he could be a great pick up for a team like the jazz or toronto who think he will be far better than anything they could draft.

[DY_nasty]

Kemba's game tonight is gonna impact more than just the win/loss column.

Wall's last 5 games: 24.4 points, 8.4 assists, 8.2 rebounds, 1.2 steals, 1.2 blocks
DJ's last 5 games: 12.6 points, 7.2 assists, 2.2 rebounds, 1.4 steals, 0 blocksJust so you don't think I'm crazy.
"John Krolik, Cavs The Blog: John Wall. He has superstar potential, but his jumper was absolutely terrible last season and he didn't appear to fix it this past summer. He's shooting 25.8 percent from 3-9 feet, 28.6 percent from 10-15 feet and 22 percent from 16-23 feet -- and he hasn't made a 3 all season. Yikes. "

"You know what's awesome? he sucks at shooting around the rim too... he has like the lowest percentage there in the league for a guy playing starter minutes."
Just following up.

[SWedd523]

Remember, Rose couldn't shoot for 3 years either

[DY_nasty]

Remember, Rose couldn't shoot for 3 years either
I get that, but Rose never looked like the league's dumbest PG in the halfcourt either.

Just saying that Wall is gradually getting exposed with each passing month. He's got more than a good chance of turning it around, but at the same his chance of falling right on his face is becoming more obvious to those who've been paying close attention.

[Boomer]

Disagree on Wall. The kid is a talent with a good head on his shoulder. He's still so young, he's going to get there.

[dav7z]

Deadline has pasted . Whats you guys thoughts on no extensions.
Wonder what DJs plans are now ?

[DUnit24]

Im cool with no extensions. Going into the season, I felt like MJ and Cho just wanted to start from the ground up. We drafted Kemba to be our PG and Biyombo to be our PF or C(depending on how he developed).

Didnt make any sense to extend DJ or DJ. Let the season play out, see what gets offered in trades, etc...

This team is going to be built around Kemba, Hendo, Thomas, Mullens and Biyombo. We just gotta stay patient.

[tondi]

DJA was done here the moment they decided to draft another tiny shoot first PG. It makes no sense, whatsoever, to have two of them on any roster, especially what may be the worst roster in the league.

It also makes no sense to pay one of them 7-8 mil a year to miss 60%+ of his shots and play lousy defense when we have another guy to do the same thing for 1/3 the money.

[ballwhore]

Deadline has pasted . Whats you guys thoughts on no extensions.
Wonder what DJs plans are now ?
Let's exit Charlotte to the left please. Michael Jordan still needs to draft or trade for a point guard.

[ballwhore]

@dunit Mullens / part plans to build around? You got to be kidding Mullens & Thomas where can I find the lil yellow pac man thing that rolls on the ground and laughs?

[Chef]

This team is going to be built around Kemba, Hendo, Thomas, Mullens and Biyombo. We just gotta stay patient.

we haven't picked anyone to build around. of those 5 the only one who i would even consider a remote possibility of ever building a team around is biz and only if he hits his ceiling. we are just collecting assets hoping one of them pans out as a superstar. once we pay and extend dj he is no longer an asset. that is all.

[Chevalier au Lion]

@dunit Mullens / part plans to build around? You got to be kidding Mullens & Thomas where can I find the lil yellow pac man thing that rolls on the ground and laughs?

I´m agree with you.

When we play with Mullens, we have the 5 players open. No one fight for the offensive rebound. He doesn´t play in the paint. He doesn´t fight with the rivals centers. He doesn´t know defend big men. he doesn´t fight for the rebounds, all that he grabbed is when he is only... We need a center who play in the paint and grabbed rebounds.

Mullens has a great hand midway, but he isn´t a good center. in my opinion.

[dav7z]

@dunit Mullens / part plans to build around? You got to be kidding Mullens & Thomas where can I find the lil yellow pac man thing that rolls on the ground and laughs?
After watching Kemba running the show makes you think DJ should be the core instead of Kemba . Though Kemba hasn't had time to be judged either. Management might be forced to offer more than the asking price when he goes to RFA .
Henderson i feel like will be a core piece but not a 1 or 2 option. Smack shows the most up side though again not a one or 2 option. TT has had lots of time if hes going to do it he better do it soon. Im not even going to address Mullens as core though him and White might be cheap back ups for a few seasons,.

Right now today DJ is this teams best player proven by the last two games. Though again DJ is not a number 1 or 2 option. My guess is management will match around 8 per or resign Felton long term for about the same money. My guess about Kemba is he will end up a sixth man scorer off the beanch. Off season should be insteresting.

edit
I would even trade Kemba for a mid first right now ;;;;;;;;;;;

[dav7z]

Let's exit Charlotte to the left please. Michael Jordan still needs to draft or trade for a point guard.

If DJ can focus on defence hard the remainder of this season . That along should drive his money up 1 or 2 mil per by its self. Just saying