It is bad...It just got worse [Archive]

spectre

02-03-2012, 07:48 AM

Charlotte Bobcats: Why Changes Must Be Made in Charlotte Immediately (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1051609-charlotte-bobcats-why-changes-must-be-made-in-charlotte-immediately)

With their performance so far this season, the Bobcats cannot continue playing through with their current roster in hopes of Walker and Biyombo gaining experience, since there is almost no chance of the team being in multiple “game-winning” situations.

President Rod Higgins and general manager Rich Cho have some nice pieces on the roster (http://www.nba.com/bobcats/roster/) like D.J. Augustin, Gerald Henderson, maybe even Byron Mullens but the remainder of the roster is most likely expendable and should be used to bring in better players.

The Bobcats should look to improve their team so they can be competitive and help their rookies learn the NBA way of doing things in a more productive manner.

The bottom line is that the Bobcats should be in a position where they can compete in games for the most part, and those will be the best learning experiences for both Walker and Biyombo. Otherwise, things will continue to go downhill and it still remains unknown whether things will change for the better in the future.

The Bobcats need to look to bring in a better mix of veteran players (even if it is only temporary) that would allow rookie Kemba Walker, Bismack Biyombo along with the remaining younger players to make the most out of the remainder of this season.

The Bobcats cannot afford to suffer continuous blowouts and learn something positive from them.
Does the author have a point or no?

Plowright

02-03-2012, 10:01 AM

I don't mind bringing in some vets and shifting people out who are not in our long term plans. But i don't want to get rid of any potential pieces for the future jsut so Kemba and Biz can have an arm round them

spectre

02-03-2012, 10:56 AM

He mentioned DJ & Henderson as well.

Thing is, how do we bring in anything of value when we're doing it to help our younger talent without taking on longer term salary? It's not like what we have left is worth anything.

Plowright

02-03-2012, 11:31 AM

Thing is, how do we bring in anything of value when we're doing it to help our younger talent without taking on longer term salary? It's not like what we have left is worth anything.

You have hit the nail on the head, this is very difficult

bes628

02-03-2012, 11:42 AM

CatNation1

02-03-2012, 11:54 AM

Charlotte Bobcats: Why Changes Must Be Made in Charlotte Immediately (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1051609-charlotte-bobcats-why-changes-must-be-made-in-charlotte-immediately)

Does the author have a point or no?

this is the reactionary mistake that Higgins said we must resist to urge to do.

the only kind of vets we should even think to pursue are cheap expiring ones. that are throw ins for a trade for draft picks

the problem is we have barely any assets outside of those guys to do anything with. Boris expiring and injured-and-looking-for-new-contract DJ??

Proudiddy

02-03-2012, 11:59 AM

A lot of teams are willing to deal expiring for expiring for different reasons though. For instance, a young expiring for an old expiring they can just rid themselves of. One team would get cap room, the other team gets a chance to evaluate young expiring and determine if they want him long-term.

There are deals like this out there and the "young expiring" can still be considered a vet. Jason Thompson from Sacto comes to mind... Last I heard, they were no longer interested in keeping him.

Additionally, DJ is a core piece here IMO, but it seems the front office is gonna low-ball him into letting him walk for nothing (like we did with Felton)... So, if they aren't going to keep him long-term, deal him to a team that needs a young starting PG for vets, young unproven talent, picks, etc.

Problem is, Higgins is still in the FO and MJ is still the final say on all deals. So, DJ will walk and we will suck until our players grow up in 3 years or so (that is, if they actually turn out to be any good).

Wolfpackbobcat

02-03-2012, 12:08 PM

Jordan and Higgins need to take a back seat and let Cho do what he thinks is right.

Mustachio

02-03-2012, 12:33 PM

Absolutely, thats why you don't get rid of guys like Wallace.

Which is why we were so awesome when Gerald Wallace was here. unbeatable even.

I feel like a freaking jedi, "these are not the stars you are looking for" If Gerald was here we would still be mediocre, thats what we don't want.

As far as bringing in some vets. I get the point, and its probably a good one. But how do you do it, who do you get and what do you sacrifice. I just think its easier to say bring in some good players than it is to actually do it.

QC Thundercats

02-03-2012, 12:51 PM

There are two veteran free agents that I think would help out the most. First is, if we could convince Theo Ratliffs old bones to come in, it could help us out twofold: teaching Bismack everything he knows about defense - how to position yourself, timing, help d, and, for the fans' sake, every minute he's able to play is one less minute that we have to watch the tectonic plate known as diop slowly rumble across the court.

The other guy I'd love to bring in if possible is Wilson Chandler. He'll be escaping his Chinese contract soon, and if we can convince him that tons of playing time is more important than winning at this point in his career, then I think he fills some needs we have.

His game reminded me a lot of Crash's game when they played against each other, being an aggressive, hard nosed, athletic type player who makes all the hustle plays. He averaged almost a block and a half at the SF position, grabs about 6 boards, isn't afraid to get down and dirty on defense, and actually has good form on his shot, which should make him more consistent offensively than Wallace.

He's another bulldog that this team could use amongst their collection of marshmallows and kittens, and is only 24, so he could be part of our core going forward. Yes, he won't be a star, but all teams still need to fill their rosters with competent role players, which as you can see, we haven't done. Depth is just as important as anything else, and if we can get another tenacious player like him along with a good draft selection, there may be a glimmer of a hope somewhere within the next couple seasons.

BRNC

02-03-2012, 12:56 PM

I'm kinda shocked that anyone would think this team could/would be better than it is...I like Paul but he has very little to work with...

We had another mediocre (at best) draft...we had minimal talent before the draft...and we have minimal talent now...and one of the few talented players we have is now out for 2-4 weeks...a bad team just got worse so why complain...especially the folks (last year) that wanted the team blown up...they got their wish...this team sucks...the FO still sucks and even if we get the first pick we'll manage to screw that up LOL...

CatNation1

02-03-2012, 01:10 PM

really, enough with the "we obviously are this bad, should be this bad blah" etc etc, we expect to lose obviously but you dont lose games by 40+ points. no team is that bad. Euroleague teams don't lose to NBA teams that bad, D-league teams wouldnt lose that bad. the god damn Redeem team only beat Angola by like 20 iirc. We don't have great players but they are good enough to run an efficient offense. Toronto did it with crappy teams for 5 yrs (until....they changed coaches whaddya know!) Stop acting like Silas has no responsibility in this

spectre

02-03-2012, 01:19 PM

Jordan and Higgins need to take a back seat and let Cho do what he thinks is right.

From your mouth to the GOAT's ears.

We could probably deal DJ White. He supposedly turned down 3 per and will probably get 5 per (MLE) this offseason. Do we really want to pay him that? Maybe swap him out for a 10 yr expiring. DJ too; I still like the idea of moving him to LAL for their 2 picks and Blake.

bes628

02-03-2012, 01:43 PM

Which is why we were so awesome when Gerald Wallace was here. unbeatable even.

I feel like a freaking jedi, "these are not the stars you are looking for" If Gerald was here we would still be mediocre, thats what we don't want.

As far as bringing in some vets. I get the point, and its probably a good one. But how do you do it, who do you get and what do you sacrifice. I just think its easier to say bring in some good players than it is to actually do it.

So is Wallace not a good player ? especially when we suck at the 3.

Ship Jax, fine. But you don't believe this team would have benefited from keeping Wallace, when clearly this team needs some type of legit veteran leadership ?

WAM9

02-03-2012, 02:11 PM

So is Wallace not a good player ? especially when we suck at the 3.

Ship Jax, fine. But you don't believe this team would have benefited from keeping Wallace, when clearly this team needs some type of legit veteran leadership ?

We don't get Biyombo without dealing Wallace. We are playing for the future. We want to have a potential to be great in the future, not middle of the road.

anton273

02-03-2012, 02:45 PM

Haha i havnt been on here for a while and everyone is so grim about the results... i love TANK mode makes me happy!

Mustachio

02-03-2012, 02:46 PM

So is Wallace not a good player ? especially when we suck at the 3.

Ship Jax, fine. But you don't believe this team would have benefited from keeping Wallace, when clearly this team needs some type of legit veteran leadership ?

Wallace is a fine player. Just not good enough. I think this fan base over rated him a bit and I even think Gerald Henderson is well far ahead of Wallace at the same point in their NBA careers. So please stop whining about "losing" Wallace, We would not have benefited from keeping him unless your idea of benefit is playoff sacrificial lamb.

I don't get this whole panic from some people. We knew this going in that it would be a tough season, and we've all explained the tanking idea a billion times. We aren't good enough to win a championship... and if that is your goal, then playing playoff sacrificial lamb isn't going to cut it. What does it matter if we lose by 50 points or 1? and whats the point of winning 20 games? if you are going to suck, you may as well suck as bad as you can suck. The worst thing I can imagine for this franchise is a new coach who fires these players up for a couple games and plays us out of a top 5 pick. Why would you want to do that? so that you can watch a couple more wins this season?

We aren't very good now, but we have some good very very young pieces. Thats where we are at. I would never ever ever ever condone this fan base to cheer for losses... but I can condone not getting suicidal everytime we lose a game during a season that makes more sense for us to lose than win.

Let's Go Cats 218

02-03-2012, 03:11 PM

This offseason had better be EPIC, or this franchise might not survive much longer.

Bobcat4Ever

02-03-2012, 03:40 PM

This offseason had better be EPIC, or this franchise might not survive much longer.

Yeh...keep dreaming.

Let's Go Cats 218

02-03-2012, 03:48 PM

Yeh...keep dreaming.

More like a nightmare... but we can't be the worst team in the NBA again... ever. The team will bleed what few dedicated fans it has, and then bad things happen.

marino13882

02-03-2012, 04:16 PM

More like a nightmare... but we can't be the worst team in the NBA again... ever. The team will bleed what few dedicated fans it has, and then bad things happen.

Not really, we are getting better attendance this year compared to years past, people have someone they want to see, Charlotte is a big time bandwagon city, there is plenty of time for them to turn it around.

bes628

02-03-2012, 05:25 PM

bes628

02-03-2012, 05:29 PM

Wallace is a fine player. Just not good enough. I think this fan base over rated him a bit and I even think Gerald Henderson is well far ahead of Wallace at the same point in their NBA careers. So please stop whining about "losing" Wallace, We would not have benefited from keeping him unless your idea of benefit is playoff sacrificial lamb.

I don't get this whole panic from some people. We knew this going in that it would be a tough season, and we've all explained the tanking idea a billion times. We aren't good enough to win a championship... and if that is your goal, then playing playoff sacrificial lamb isn't going to cut it. What does it matter if we lose by 50 points or 1? and whats the point of winning 20 games? if you are going to suck, you may as well suck as bad as you can suck. The worst thing I can imagine for this franchise is a new coach who fires these players up for a couple games and plays us out of a top 5 pick. Why would you want to do that? so that you can watch a couple more wins this season?

We aren't very good now, but we have some good very very young pieces. Thats where we are at. I would never ever ever ever condone this fan base to cheer for losses... but I can condone not getting suicidal everytime we lose a game during a season that makes more sense for us to lose than win.

Hendo and Wallace...2 different spots, so the comparison isn't even relevant in my eyes because we could have easily had both. I just know that very few young teams without dominant players make far in the playoffs. You gotta have some good vet's mixed in, and Wallace was that guy.

And before the season I picked us to win 15 games, but never would have I guessed we would look like the worse team in professional basketball history.

CatNation1

02-03-2012, 05:41 PM

the attendance thing is a joke. if they arent straight up lying on the numbers the only reason its up is because they are literally giving away tickets to see other boring teams after home games to everyone in attendance if u are down to wait in a line. . they prolly mark all those ones they give away as "sold" and count them in attendance so all the games vs noncontenders that would normally have like 8k real attendance gets listed as 15k

spectre

02-03-2012, 07:10 PM

We don't get Biyombo without dealing Wallace. We are playing for the future. We want to have a potential to be great in the future, not middle of the road.

Seriously though. Fuck Biyombo. Not worth it.

If we'd have not traded Crash and instead moved just Jax I imagine we still could have pulled the 7th, so most likely we wouldn't have Kemba. It could have cost us something else of value (what I have no idea) but Smack was who Cho was hot for.

I absolutely hated the Crash trade. Still feel like we got jack for him. However...if the goal is to contend the gamble makes sense. We know Crash's ceiling and the 4 concussions. 30 years old. Heart of a lion but we're only going to get so far with him. None of our new guys might ever pan out, but the odds are some of them will...and the more youthful top picks we get the better one of them could turn out great. If you want to contend, you have to have great.

Mustachio

02-03-2012, 07:31 PM

Hendo and Wallace...2 different spots, so the comparison isn't even relevant in my eyes because we could have easily had both. I just know that very few young teams without dominant players make far in the playoffs. You gotta have some good vet's mixed in, and Wallace was that guy.

And before the season I picked us to win 15 games, but never would have I guessed we would look like the worse team in professional basketball history.

How can you say Wallace was that guy? What evidence do you have? a 40 win season and a playoff sweep? if he's that guy, ill pass. You can't advocate for veterans that "make it far in the playoffs" and then say we should have kept a guy who's never played in the second round.

I'll take Biyombo's promise and a 10 win season over 40 wins and a playoff sweep all day. You think we should slop around in mediocrity, I think we should strive for better things.

Mustachio

02-03-2012, 07:35 PM

bes628

02-03-2012, 07:37 PM

How can you say Wallace was that guy? What evidence do you have? a 40 win season and a playoff sweep? if he's that guy, ill pass. You can't advocate for veterans that "make it far in the playoffs" and then say we should have kept a guy who's never played in the second round.
I'll take Biyombo's promise and a 10 win season over 40 wins and a playoff sweep all day. You think we should slop around in mediocrity, I think we should strive for better things.

1. What would imply I want mediocrity, I want to win games and become a good team. The rest will take care of itself.

2. Clearly when I say vet's I meant multiple. And on a team with no superstar in sight, Id rather have a team with at least a couple good players that way if we do happen to land upon a star we won't have dogshit around him, like what's gonna happen to us now. Build a core.

Bottom line for me is that at the end of the day is that Nobody else has had to look like the worst professional basketball team of all-time to draft a great player.

Mustachio

02-03-2012, 07:41 PM

What would imply I want mediocrity,

Id rather have a team with at least a couple good players

If you aren't in it to win the whole, thing. Why. Bother.

Nata Fresh

02-03-2012, 11:27 PM

Bottom line for me is that at the end of the day is that Nobody else has had to look like the worst professional basketball team of all-time to draft a great player.

Funny the Cleveland Cavs have done that TWICE in the last decade...

ohara831

02-03-2012, 11:46 PM

Remember, it is always the darkest just before the dawn. And I dont think it has ever been any darker for Charlotte basketball, so this might be a good thing.

Just tryiing to find something positive in all this mess.

CatNation1

02-03-2012, 11:55 PM

have you been to a game this year? attendance is noticeably up.

you missed the part where I said they give away thousands of free tickets to every non-superstar game

and if you miss those you can do groupons and get tickets for like a dollar.

theyve completely given up on ticket revenue and are going for all concessions/merch sales

Let's Go Cats 218

02-04-2012, 09:54 AM

Wow... sounds like Mustachio never watched Gerald Wallace in a Bobcats uniform. It is very hard headed to stand there and keep saying that Gerald Wallace couldn't have been a part of the rebuilding effort. We could have gotten rid of EVERYONE else, saving boat loads of $$... and Gerald would still make us competitive in the East. I understand he's not the MVP of a NBA championship contender, but he WAS the Charlotte Bobcats...the heart and soul... and he wasn't making so much $ that we couldn't have kept him, still tanked, and added quality young guys around him that he could TEACH. Instead, we have our vet, Diop, mentoring our young playerss on how to get fat and suck at basketball.

Mustachio

02-04-2012, 02:31 PM

Funny the Cleveland Cavs have done that TWICE in the last decade...

Haha quit with your silly little facts! Gerald Wallace was gonna stop global warming and win us a championship!

Mustachio

02-04-2012, 02:47 PM

you missed the part where I said they give away thousands of free tickets to every non-superstar game

and if you miss those you can do groupons and get tickets for like a dollar.

theyve completely given up on ticket revenue and are going for all concessions/merch sales

They havent given away anything, please provide proof other than just your own disbelief. Maybe some charity, but whats the problem with that?
you are making it sound as if they are herding people off the streets into the stadium with free tickets, which is just completely untrue.

They have sold upper level tickets for 5$ which in my opinion is a completely appropriate price for an upper level seat to a potentially bad basketball game.

Either way its a ridiculously negative way to look at things, they are 15th in attendance and the Bobcats are making money. Why can't it just be a good thing? When the "heart and soul of the Bobcats" was in uniform the franchise never broke the top 22 in average league attendance.

and 15th is directly in the middle of the NBA, so that should make you guys happy. Yay we are mediocre!

CatNation1

02-04-2012, 02:53 PM

They havent given away anything, please provide proof other than just your own disbelief. Maybe some charity, but whats the problem with that?
you are making it sound as if they are herding people off the streets into the stadium with free tickets, which is just completely untrue.

They have sold upper level tickets for 5$ which in my opinion is a completely appropriate price for an upper level seat to a potentially bad basketball game.

Either way its a ridiculously negative way to look at things, they are 15th in attendance and the Bobcats are making money. Why can't it just be a good thing? When the "heart and soul of the Bobcats" was in uniform the franchise never broke the top 22 in average league attendance.

and 15th is directly in the middle of the NBA, so that should make you guys happy. Yay we are mediocre!

I believe the promo is/was if any Bobcats makes a 3pter in the 4th quarter everyone in the arena got free tickets to another game if they are willing to wait in the line. They've run it a few times now I'm not sure if its an every night thing but I know they've done it at least twice when a dull team is coming into town soon.

bes628

02-04-2012, 03:31 PM

Funny the Cleveland Cavs have done that TWICE in the last decade...

I'll give you the 26 game losing Streak Cav's but, thats usually what happens when you don't build a solid core before trying to bring in a superstar. You're left with dogshit trying to win you games.

02 Cav's, won 17, which we won't even come close too. We're on par for breaking the 26 game losing streak and in turn finishing worse than the 9 win season the 72' 76er's had.

Let's Go Cats 218

02-04-2012, 03:45 PM

DY_nasty

02-04-2012, 06:03 PM

At this point, we need:

The #1 pick in the draft.
A legit Center. (This could be handled via the draft -Anthony Davis or Drummond)
2 or 3 GOOD veterans. They don't have to be superstars, but this team needs some maturity. (Gerald Wallace)
Cho to have the best, most magical offseason of his career.This team won't be fixed in just one year. It was just too poorly managed and the hole is two deep. You're looking at 3 years or so.

Zoolander

02-04-2012, 07:48 PM

what they need is a legit 22+ points per game scorer.

adam187

02-06-2012, 12:24 AM

look, i loved gerald wallace as much as i'm sure we all did, but you guys are imagining some things.

this season, wallace is averaging 13.7 ppg and 6.7 rebounds (just a notch above his career avg of 13.5 and 6.3). he is not taking us to the promised land. he was on the team for what, 6/7 years, and the bobcats have 0 playoff wins to show for it. maybe the trade sucked, that's fine, but we have some awesome young guys we should all be excited for - kemba, hedno, reggie williams, and my fav BISMACK!!!

thunder/sonics record (with durant): 2007-2008 20-62, 2008-2009 23-59, 2009-2010 50-32. the whole creating a "culture of losing" seems somewhat overstated. this is the formula our team is trying to follow right now. it will take time and it's not guaranteed, but in my mind, it is the right direction for the franchise. we need a superstar and the draft is the only way the bobcats will get one.

finally, this same team almost started off 2-0 and took the heat to the buzzer. we are just rocked by injuries. we will win more games. we just need to be patient.

WAM9

02-06-2012, 05:08 PM

You're left with dogshit trying to win you games.

The point you are missing is that we aren't trying to win games.

And from the earlier comment about not thinking Biyombo is worth anything...just wait. As of today, I would say that Biyombo ends up being one of the greatest Bobcats of all time and is a cornerstone for our franchise (and a large part of our identity) for the next decade or more.

bes628

02-07-2012, 01:36 PM

The point you are missing is that we aren't trying to win games.

And from the earlier comment about not thinking Biyombo is worth anything...just wait. As of today, I would say that Biyombo ends up being one of the greatest Bobcats of all time and is a cornerstone for our franchise (and a large part of our identity) for the next decade or more.

That shouldn't be hard to accomplish.

WAM9

02-07-2012, 02:47 PM

That shouldn't be hard to accomplish.

Be all negative if you want.

Maybe the reason I am not wanting to jump off a bridge (like so many) due to the losses is because I enjoy seeing the development of amazing players. I don't claim to be a pro scout in any way, shape or form but I do feel like I have a pretty good feel for young talent. Biyombo is going to be special and you might enjoy things a little more if you paid a little closer attention to him. If not, don't worry...There will be plenty of room on the Biyombo-bandwagon down the road:)

Chef

02-07-2012, 03:08 PM

Mustachio

02-07-2012, 03:08 PM

That shouldn't be hard to accomplish.

slobbering on Gerald Wallace and how dumb it was to let him go in one post, this ^ in another.

bes628

02-07-2012, 06:50 PM

slobbering on Gerald Wallace and how dumb it was to let him go in one post, this ^ in another.

Fuck off. Outside of Wallace, who I've repeatedly said was a good player nothing more nothing less, nobody here has done shit so it shouldn't be that hard.

Dcarnys

02-08-2012, 07:17 PM

02 Cav's, won 17, which we won't even come close too. We're on par for breaking the 26 game losing streak and in turn finishing worse than the 9 win season the 72' 76er's had.

I will say if it comes to it, would you still consider that the "Worst ever" considering the 66 game season... Not trying to make excuses but if it comes to it, will have to be taken into account.

dav7z

02-10-2012, 07:19 AM

I believe the promo is/was if any Bobcats makes a 3pter in the 4th quarter everyone in the arena got free tickets to another game if they are willing to wait in the line. They've run it a few times now I'm not sure if its an every night thing but I know they've done it at least twice when a dull team is coming into town soon.

The cheap seats along with the free seats . Kinda turns me off . I want more perks than the one time fan . How about returning 5 dollars a game to the season ticket holder all so.

I know its just to attract new fans . But you need to take care of your loyal coustmers all so.

Ghost Kat

02-12-2012, 11:41 PM

I haven't watched the last 6 or so games so i cant add much. I just wanted to say this season sucks and I've converted to full tank mode

polarcat

02-13-2012, 11:15 AM

The realistic side of my brain tells me that with a rebuilding team that is missing 3 out of 5 starters and currently starting 2 rookies alongside scraps on almost every other team is going to produce this garbage that we know as the Bobcats. I am patient and have no doubt that Cho and company are on the right path, though that path is at the beginning of it's journey rather than farther along. However, the competitive and emotional side of my brain has a hard time watching game after game.