The infatuation with the Hornets

[MadBOBCATfanUK]

On all of the Bobcats posts I read on the Charlotte Observer theres always a mention of having the Hornets name reinstated. I was only old enough to watch the Bobcats and I kinda like the name. Do you think if Charlotte got the Hornets name back it would make any difference?

[CatNation1]

no

the Hornets already failed here once.

[Pepperz]

George Shinn Failed here.

[bozzy]

I think people think bringing the name back will bring that enthusiasm back. Unfortunately, that enthusiasm will only last a day if they did that. At the end of the day, the name doesn't matter. But switching names is almost like another way to rebuild the team. I think fans are fatigued with this team rebuilding. They just want a winner.

[Mustachio]

First of all ... don't read the comment section of the Charlotte Observer. Abandon all hope ye who enter there. It is a cesspool of negativity and butt hurt 60 year old men still pissed about the stadium situation. It is infuriating and please please please do not associate your feelings about the great city of Charlotte with those pathetic basement dwelling trolls.

About the Hornets name. I am fine with the Bobcats, I like the name, love the colors, solid logo, I think its good. But as a Hornets fan from day 1 I wouldn't be super upset if we got the name back. You gotta remember that the Charlotte Hornets was really the first thing the city could be proud of on a national level. It was an identity and it was for all intents and purposes stolen away by a greedy slime ball of a businessman. Thats why you see the constant talk about it. Identity theft is a personal thing and hard to let go of for some people. Couple it with the whole Bob Johnson named the team after himself feelings and you have a recipe for constant name change conversation.

I do think that bringing back the Hornets name would ease a lot of the tension and disdain some Charlotteans have about the Bobcats. Inducing more good will towards a franchise that could desperately us some more good will.

I would love to see the Hornets name come back and keep all of our current colors and fonts to have some continuity and blending of the two brands. That said I would also be fine with never hearing about a name change again. haha.

[pants144]

That said I would also be fine with never hearing about a name change again. haha.

Same here, I think I'm actually more inclined to support the name change so that people will stop talking about the possibility of a name change every year.

[MadBOBCATfanUK]

Same here, I think I'm actually more inclined to support the name change so that people will stop talking about the possibility of a name change every year.

It's also really annoying hearing people saying if the Bobcats had their name changed they would support them more

[polarcat]

It's also really annoying hearing people saying if the Bobcats had their name changed they would support them more

Where I agree that the true fan isn't going to care either way whether it's the 'Cats, Hornets, Cougars, etc., I do think there is something to be said about branding in sports. Making that connection on a subconscious/emotional level with Charlotteans and the blemish that a crappy owner that named the team after himself leaves on the psyche can't be discounted. I wish we could have a different name and if we were named after someone, it would at least be the GOAT in the NBA like Jordan (not that I want that, but at least it's named after a legend) or someone with meaning rather than a billionaire TV owner that could care less about the city of Charlotte except for dollar signs. I would welcome the Hornets name back, but am not going to loose sleep over it. I am a diehard fan of this team whatever their logo, name, owner, whatever is. I do believe though that there is a lot of animosity in this town over Bob Johnson and the early years of this team that for whatever reason, the casual fan can't let go of. Whatever.... winning is all that matters and when that happens consistently, the name will be an afterthought.

[MadBOBCATfanUK]

Where I agree that the true fan isn't going to care either way whether it's the 'Cats, Hornets, Cougars, etc., I do think there is something to be said about branding in sports. Making that connection on a subconscious/emotional level with Charlotteans and the blemish that a crappy owner that named the team after himself leaves on the psyche can't be discounted. I wish we could have a different name and if we were named after someone, it would at least be the GOAT in the NBA like Jordan (not that I want that, but at least it's named after a legend) or someone with meaning rather than a billionaire TV owner that could care less about the city of Charlotte except for dollar signs. I would welcome the Hornets name back, but am not going to loose sleep over it. I am a diehard fan of this team whatever their logo, name, owner, whatever is. I do believe though that there is a lot of animosity in this town over Bob Johnson and the early years of this team that for whatever reason, the casual fan can't let go of. Whatever.... winning is all that matters and when that happens consistently, the name will be an afterthought.

Agree 100% with what you said

[skratch]

That would cost so much money, thats the only reason i never see it happening

[Brad]

You have to understand local history to understand the tie to the name Hornets:

"The nickname derives from the American Revolutionary War, when British commander General Cornwallis occupied the city but was driven out by hostile residents, prompting him to write that Charlotte was "a hornet's nest of rebellion," leading to the nickname The Hornet's Nest."

That's why the Police shield has a hornets nest in the background, that's why there are several "hornet's nest" councils around town. It's not tied to the NBA team; it's tied to the region's history and the community's role in the American Revolution.

Keep in mind that the Hornets led the NBA in attendance for 10 years straight as an expansion team that truthfully wasn't that great for most of their existence.

Bobcats was a poor choice from the beginning. It has no ties to the city or county, and only serves as a memory of the former owner who was nothing but an utter failure in every facet.

Count me in as one of the fans who would love to see the nickname back.

[Chrystos]

Personally, I hate the name Bobcats for a number of reasons. 1.It is named after our former and horrible owner, Bob Johnson. 2.I think the the color scheme is okay but I think the away jersey looks horrible (It would be way cooler if it where orange or black with pinstripes) 3.The Bobcats sound like recreation park team name, and the name does not even have anything to do with the city. It would be a dream come true if Charlotte got the name Hornets back or even change it to the Flight like the guy in NBA 2k11 said. I'm sorry but I just can't stand the name Bobcats.

[WarioVsMooChicken]

To me, a name is just a name. I don't care if we had the best name ever. If we're losing, I'm upset.

The team on the court matters 1000000x as much as the name on the front of jerseys. People who worry about the team's name, even a 100th as much as the players on the team, have their priorities all messed up

[Plowright]

This thread does NOTHING for anyone. Lets just stop bringing it up. The Hornets are gone, i dont care about them. The Bobcats are the team i love

[ziggy]

I loved the Hornets when they were in town, but when they left town, everything Hornets ( name included ) became dead to me.

count me as someone who DOES NOT want the name changed.

[SWedd523]

Our name isn't any worse than the majority of other team names. The only problem people have with it is that it isn't attached to any history or winning. As soon as that changes, the discussion will go away.

I remember when the Sonics moved and changed their name to the Thunder. Talk about a HORRIBLE name! Everybody made fun of it, and now? Nobody gives a damn because they're a contender with a top 5 player.

[Dcarnys]

Why do I force myself to read the comments sections in a Observer story?? Does no body there
A. Use common sense?
B. Have a clue about how the world of pro sports works?
C. Have had any resemblense to a positive thought in the past 15 years?
With that said I can rally behind the CHARLOTTE Bobcats or Hornets

[bes628]

On all of the Bobcats posts I read on the Charlotte Observer theres always a mention of having the Hornets name reinstated. I was only old enough to watch the Bobcats and I kinda like the name. Do you think if Charlotte got the Hornets name back it would make any difference?

You pretty much answered you're own question.

[Pepperz]

As time goes on, this Hornets talk will slowly go away. As the younger generation will grow a custom to the Bobcats, the Hornets will be an after thought. Lets worry about how this team is going to get better. The past is the past. Lets leave it there and make some new history.

[Proudiddy]

This team will never reach its full potential in success and marketability until they change the name.

That whole poll they claim they did to see whether re-branding was an option was a sham... They didn't do one, and if they did, they didn't care about the results anyway - you know, basically like our political elections... They were gonna come out with the same result regardless... Why? Because MJ is cheap. He was already losing money and didn't want to go in the hole anymore at this time in spending the money to change the name.

I was one of the most bitter and angry fans when we lost the Hornets. I'm an extremely loyal person, so when I feel betrayed, you're forever on the s-list. So, naturally, I hoped and wished for the Hornets to fold so we could have the name/logo back whenever we eventually got a team. Whether it was Shinn's creation or not, they should've made a deal with him to keep the name/logo when he left, like Seattle did. When they get a team back, they will be who they're supposed to be - the Sonics. They will have ties to all their legendary players - Watts, Payton, Kemp, etc. We don't.

And I was so hyped when Bob Johnson was named our owner... I was confident in what he could do, I grew up on a lot of things BET, and I trusted his business savvy, not to mention, I was proud to say we had the first minority owner in pro sports. The beginning of the end with BoJo for me was naming the franchise the Bobcats. Hey, I have an idea! On top of disregarding every other possible name that has local meaning, let's deck out this team in a color scheme only befitting of construction workers and homeless beggars with a primary color of Orange! Yeah, that's the ticket! Wait, I got another one! Let's give them a super corny, unprofessional looking logo accentuating the corniness that is the Bobcats! Yeah, yeah!

That's what has tainted the name/logo for me. I could've cared less whether BoJo got a house here, lived and stayed in DC, or stayed anywhere else, so long as he ensured the success of the team and established them as an integral part of the community. He didn't, and he didn't care to. He thought it was automatic money and trashed the entire process from the start.

So, despite being a diehard fan of a losing team by default because I take great pride in my homestate and hometeams, the name itself will forever be tainted because who is the first name that comes to mind when you hear Bobcats?

Until Jordan acknowledges it, they won't ever fulfill their potential.

With Hornets, their was a local meaning to it. Fans could take pride in it. We identified with being diminutive but feisty, mean, quick, and power in numbers. We took pride in it, we loved it, and we felt a part of it. Never has our current franchise tried to genuinely do the same, and to me, the name is always a reminder of that.

Sadly, I still am a fan and will forever remain so, but I despise the name. I promise you, if they changed the name back to the Hornets, or at least something with some local meaning, attendance will shoot up on the regular just for that alone. If we got the Hornets back, or something similar, and fans could identify with it and take pride in it, the support for this team would increase exponentially as well.

But alas, we have a sham of a poll, of which I haven't meant or come into contact with one fan who participated in, that says no name change is needed.

[Pepperz]

This team will never reach its full potential in success and marketability until they change the name.

That whole poll they claim they did to see whether re-branding was an option was a sham... They didn't do one, and if they did, they didn't care about the results anyway - you know, basically like our political elections... They were gonna come out with the same result regardless... Why? Because MJ is cheap. He was already losing money and didn't want to go in the hole anymore at this time in spending the money to change the name.

I was one of the most bitter and angry fans when we lost the Hornets. I'm an extremely loyal person, so when I feel betrayed, you're forever on the s-list. So, naturally, I hoped and wished for the Hornets to fold so we could have the name/logo back whenever we eventually got a team. Whether it was Shinn's creation or not, they should've made a deal with him to keep the name/logo when he left, like Seattle did. When they get a team back, they will be who they're supposed to be - the Sonics. They will have ties to all their legendary players - Watts, Payton, Kemp, etc. We don't.

And I was so hyped when Bob Johnson was named our owner... I was confident in what he could do, I grew up on a lot of things BET, and I trusted his business savvy, not to mention, I was proud to say we had the first minority owner in pro sports. The beginning of the end with BoJo for me was naming the franchise the Bobcats. Hey, I have an idea! On top of disregarding every other possible name that has local meaning, let's deck out this team in a color scheme only befitting of construction workers and homeless beggars with a primary color of Orange! Yeah, that's the ticket! Wait, I got another one! Let's give them a super corny, unprofessional looking logo accentuating the corniness that is the Bobcats! Yeah, yeah!

That's what has tainted the name/logo for me. I could've cared less whether BoJo got a house here, lived and stayed in DC, or stayed anywhere else, so long as he ensured the success of the team and established them as an integral part of the community. He didn't, and he didn't care to. He thought it was automatic money and trashed the entire process from the start.

So, despite being a diehard fan of a losing team by default because I take great pride in my homestate and hometeams, the name itself will forever be tainted because who is the first name that comes to mind when you hear Bobcats?

Until Jordan acknowledges it, they won't ever fulfill their potential.

With Hornets, their was a local meaning to it. Fans could take pride in it. We identified with being diminutive but feisty, mean, quick, and power in numbers. We took pride in it, we loved it, and we felt a part of it. Never has our current franchise tried to genuinely do the same, and to me, the name is always a reminder of that.

Sadly, I still am a fan and will forever remain so, but I despise the name. I promise you, if they changed the name back to the Hornets, or at least something with some local meaning, attendance will shoot up on the regular just for that alone. If we got the Hornets back, or something similar, and fans could identify with it and take pride in it, the support for this team would increase exponentially as well.

But alas, we have a sham of a poll, of which I haven't meant or come into contact with one fan who participated in, that says no name change is needed.

You sound like an emo kid that broke up with your girlfriend. Now you are asking for her back rather then moving forward to something new.

[skratch]

Our name isn't any worse than the majority of other team names. The only problem people have with it is that it isn't attached to any history or winning. As soon as that changes, the discussion will go away.

I remember when the Sonics moved and changed their name to the Thunder. Talk about a HORRIBLE name! Everybody made fun of it, and now? Nobody gives a damn because they're a contender with a top 5 player.

I agree i also thought OKC name was weak till they gained my respect as a solid team in the NBA with players such as durant & westbrook, now the name is irrelevant and so are the haters because the product is amazing.
http://thunderoklahomacity.com/who-likes-the-new-oklahoma-city-thunder-name/
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=101913



This team will never reach its full potential in success and marketability until they change the name.

That whole poll they claim they did to see whether re-branding was an option was a sham... They didn't do one, and if they did, they didn't care about the results anyway - you know, basically like our political elections... They were gonna come out with the same result regardless... Why? Because MJ is cheap. He was already losing money and didn't want to go in the hole anymore at this time in spending the money to change the name.


I was one of the most bitter and angry fans when we lost the Hornets. I'm an extremely loyal person, so when I feel betrayed, you're forever on the s-list. So, naturally, I hoped and wished for the Hornets to fold so we could have the name/logo back whenever we eventually got a team. Whether it was Shinn's creation or not, they should've made a deal with him to keep the name/logo when he left, like Seattle did. When they get a team back, they will be who they're supposed to be - the Sonics. They will have ties to all their legendary players - Watts, Payton, Kemp, etc. We don't.

And I was so hyped when Bob Johnson was named our owner... I was confident in what he could do, I grew up on a lot of things BET, and I trusted his business savvy, not to mention, I was proud to say we had the first minority owner in pro sports. The beginning of the end with BoJo for me was naming the franchise the Bobcats. Hey, I have an idea! On top of disregarding every other possible name that has local meaning, let's deck out this team in a color scheme only befitting of construction workers and homeless beggars with a primary color of Orange! Yeah, that's the ticket! Wait, I got another one! Let's give them a super corny, unprofessional looking logo accentuating the corniness that is the Bobcats! Yeah, yeah!

That's what has tainted the name/logo for me. I could've cared less whether BoJo got a house here, lived and stayed in DC, or stayed anywhere else, so long as he ensured the success of the team and established them as an integral part of the community. He didn't, and he didn't care to. He thought it was automatic money and trashed the entire process from the start.

So, despite being a diehard fan of a losing team by default because I take great pride in my homestate and hometeams, the name itself will forever be tainted because who is the first name that comes to mind when you hear Bobcats?

Until Jordan acknowledges it, they won't ever fulfill their potential.

With Hornets, their was a local meaning to it. Fans could take pride in it. We identified with being diminutive but feisty, mean, quick, and power in numbers. We took pride in it, we loved it, and we felt a part of it. Never has our current franchise tried to genuinely do the same, and to me, the name is always a reminder of that.

Sadly, I still am a fan and will forever remain so, but I despise the name. I promise you, if they changed the name back to the Hornets, or at least something with some local meaning, attendance will shoot up on the regular just for that alone. If we got the Hornets back, or something similar, and fans could identify with it and take pride in it, the support for this team would increase exponentially as well.

But alas, we have a sham of a poll, of which I haven't meant or come into contact with one fan who participated in, that says no name change is needed.

All those fans complaining about the name are 40+ year old tax payers who are still mad the stadium is downtown and complaining about a whole bunch of other b.s. You have to realize these ppl are going to die soon and there opinion is irrelevent, the message is to push the team on the kids because they are the future and they will support it not the 40+ year old ppl in these comments http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2012/02/18/3026916/michael-jordan-seeks-to-restore.html#disqus_thread crying over a name, the name wont help the product only wins will. I dont see anything wrong with the name maybe the colors can be adjusted alittle, id add some black too it and somtimes the blue away jersey looks alittle stale but its w/e. How do ppl expect to have pride in the bobcats when they dont win? Once theres a winning product i bet ppl will be all over the team and forget all about the name because they will have gained respect in the league and accomplishment and finally be associated with success right now bobcats have none of that. Which adds another problem theres no player on this team the fans can associate themselves with, i bet you cant find one hornet fan now that chris paul is gone because that team as no identity same with bobcats all our players are trash. You cant satisfy them all but if Jordan has enough money to change the name back to the hornets(doesnt look possible because SAC is looking like the target to get moved to Seattle) be my guess jordan, do what u gotta do to satisfy these cry babies, the team will still suck for the next 5 years, only thing your gaining is old heads, winning would make you more money in the long run

[Proudiddy]

You sound like an emo kid that broke up with your girlfriend. Now you are asking for her back rather then moving forward to something new.

Awesome insight. I'm just speaking the truth man. I feel like the name just reflects how poorly our team has been mismanaged and is a constant reminder. Additionally, I'm tired of our fans just accepting what they're told... Look at our TV situation for instance. The organization isn't working towards a resolution at all and put the burden of being able to see our team on us, which is almost impossible... Especially for those of us in the RDU market. For more insight on my stance, read on after this quote:


I agree i also thought OKC name was weak till they gained my respect as a solid team in the NBA with players such as durant & westbrook, now the name is irrelevant and so are the haters because the product is amazing.
http://thunderoklahomacity.com/who-likes-the-new-oklahoma-city-thunder-name/
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=101913




All those fans complaining about the name are 40+ year old tax payers who are still mad the stadium is downtown and complaining about a whole bunch of other b.s. You have to realize these ppl are going to die soon and there opinion is irrelevent, the message is to push the team on the kids because they are the future and they will support it not the 40+ year old ppl in these comments http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2012/02/18/3026916/michael-jordan-seeks-to-restore.html#disqus_thread crying over a name, the name wont help the product only wins will. I dont see anything wrong with the name maybe the colors can be adjusted alittle, id add some black too it and somtimes the blue away jersey looks alittle stale but its w/e. How do ppl expect to have pride in the bobcats when they dont win? Once theres a winning product i bet ppl will be all over the team and forget all about the name because they will have gained respect in the league and accomplishment and finally be associated with success right now bobcats have none of that. Which adds another problem theres no player on this team the fans can associate themselves with, i bet you cant find one hornet fan now that chris paul is gone because that team as no identity same with bobcats all our players are trash. You cant satisfy them all but if Jordan has enough money to change the name back to the hornets(doesnt look possible because SAC is looking like the target to get moved to Seattle) be my guess jordan, do what u gotta do to satisfy these cry babies, the team will still suck for the next 5 years, only thing your gaining is old heads, winning would make you more money in the long run

I'm not sure who you're addressing, but I'm not 40, far from it (late 20s), and I was in my adolescence when we had the Hornets. I was in high school in our last great years with Diddy, Campbell, etc. As far as the arena/funding crap, I don't give a shit about any of that. The city was dumb for not doing what they had to do to ensure that we kept the Hornets in the first place... But, all that is water under the bridge, it happened and we got a new team and considering our attendance record when we had the Hornets, odds are, Shinn was looking for a way out anyway... So, F him, in hindsight, I'm glad he left when he did because odds are he was going to do it anyway.

Now, all that aside, I will always pull for my home teams... And to both of you quoted in this reply, just because I don't like our current name doesn't make me any less of a fan. I just don't like arrogance and indifference being constantly thrown in my face everytime I hear our name. The TV deal still hinders our franchise as well and that is just one of many examples that I'm constantly reminded of how the fans haven't been included in making this team who they are. Of course in business your top priority is the bottom line, but when dealing in pro sports, a huge chunk of that is making your fans a part of the process (look at OKC).

We have been lied to, manipulated, and constantly ignored all in hopes of taking as much money as possible from us... Which is fine, but give me an incentive to give you my money.

And again, to both of you, don't twist my words... I'm not some old woogie boogie mf'er who misses the old days and so on, again, I'm in my late 20s, am a hooper myself, love the game, and I'm a loyal yet progressive person... So, if you read carefully in my OP in this thread, I said it doesn't have to be the Hornets. I just would like a fresh start and I feel that poll was a huge scam. Again, I have yet to meet anyone who participated in it and if they did I still think the organization would've said there wasn't enough support for a name change.

I'm still stuck searching for choppy, pixelated streams from Bumfuck, Saudi Arabia just to watch MY TEAM play... and play poorly at that. For our entire existence (minus the TV14 days) I've been relegated to doing this. The name, our coverage, and just the way the fans are treated in general are just constant reminders of how much ownership doesn't care. Sure, MJ has done a few things that improved on what BJ didn't do, but that wasn't hard to accomplish. He says all the right things, and yet, here we are... Still a laughing stock with a joke of a name.

I don't need the Hornets, I would just like MJ to put his money where his mouth is and give us a fresh start as an organization. So, don't confuse me for those idiots on the Disturber boards and comments section who post out of hate and troll just to get a rise out of people... They aren't fans. I am a fan of the Bobcats, it's my hometeam, and I want to be heard. I've went to games, bought jerseys, etc. I would like my opinion to matter. That is all.

[QC Thundercats]

So here's my take on the subject, and hopefully it can better explain this "infatuation":

Grew up in Charlotte, the Hornets were the reason I love basketball. Tons of tradition and memories - they recently showed the '93 playoffs on ESPN Classic, and I basically sat and watched for a few hours the games with Zo's buzzer beater against the Celtics, and the 2nd round double overtime win against the Knicks in Charlotte. Watching those games got me hyped almost as much as it did when I watched it live, even though I knew what was going to happen, and seeing the energy around the team and in the arena gave me chills.

I know I've gotten excited and jumped around for a few bobcats games, like Jax's buzzer beater last year against the Hawks, or a few times during our playoff run, but there was never quite the same sense of pride, of proving that Charlotte belongs on the basketball map like I felt with the Hornets. I'm in the camp that thinks we should go back to the name and colors if/when it becomes available again for two reasons: for the nostalgia, but also for marketing and economic reasons.

I was bitter when Shinn stole the team too, but there was such a connection with that identity that is hard to explain unless you grew up with them. There currently is an emotional disconnect with the city and team, for many reasons, and I know just a name change won't necessarily fix that. But I guess again, its a pride thing. I'm in Chicago now, and I tell people I'm a Bobcats fan, but they always apologize to me for it, and I can't really boast about my fanship as I did with the Hornets. I'm a huge fan regardless, but honestly, the brand is weak, the name doesn't exude strength, as it is named for a smaller cat of the wild (hence why my moniker is Thundercats - for the power!), and the faded blue and orange colors are bland.

I think the Hornets name is a bridge to the rich basketball history in the region, especially for all Charlotteans or other huge fans of the Hornets. That pride and emotional connection will be easier to make, as it would bring back the memories and tradition we had. Now winning will ultimately entrench that connection, but I think that the old name would definitely will help recreate that initial bond with the city and team.

As for marketing purposes, the Hornets with their teal and purple was not just a local or national brand, but a global brand. They were always in the top 2-3 in merchandise sales in the league, trailing only the Bulls and their bandwagoning fans, even before the Hornets were winning. Even today, I see Charlotte Hornets gear (not New Orleans) being worn in Chicago, in NY, even out in California. I have never seen anyone other than myself wear Bobcats gear, even when I'm back in Charlotte. Cam Newton was wearing old Hornets gear when he went to the game. People all across the globe just connect with that brand and identity, and its popularity would soar if its brought back. It doesn't work in New Orleans because it doesn't fit right, feel right. And there isn't that great history of Hornets with that city - Muggsy, LJ, Zo, Chapman, Dell, Rice...you don't think of them when you see "New Orleans Hornets."

If Jordan is able to get the name back and get the team on the winning track by then, I just believe there will be such an incredible explosion of sales both locally and nationally, that he couldn't turn down the potential economic boom. So personally, I would like to see the old identity back, but also economically, the Charlotte Hornets would kill the Charlotte Bobcats in merchandising sales.

[SWedd523]

So Proudiddy, let's say we trade Magette and Diop for LeBron and DJ for Greg Monroe. (completely impossible I know)

Kemba
Hendo
LeBron
Bismack
Monroe

That's a title contender and a surefire 50 win team. Are you trying to say they'd still suck and not get any respect or fans just because of the Boats name?

Yeah....... no........

[cltblkhscoach]

I'm kinda like Proudiddy in terms of my demographic. I'm 30, grew up with the Hornets, and I was one of the few thousand there in the last game in the Hive when they lost to New Jersey in the second round of the playoffs. Now I love the Bobcats, and the name doesn't bother me really. But I can understand where he's coming from, especially with the missteps the franchise took from the beginning and the fact that Bob Johnson has such a negative connotation in the community. I mean, Michael even said himself in the latest article from the Observer that "the previous owner made a mistake" in cutting the relations staff that helped attempt to build a relationship between the team and the city.

If Michael truly believes that, the best thing he can do is change the name of the team. I mean we're rebuilding anyways, and we can all agree this is the worst it can get this year. Next year you can begin anew, and even if it isn't the Hornets, it can really signal that he can put his own name on the franchise, move on from the Bob Johnson era, and get the city behind something that doesn't already have a stigma it can't seem to rid itself from.

If we could see the light around the corner toward a winning team, then I honestly wouldn't suggest this. But in a 4-26 season and you're asking season ticket holders to renew, plus to build on attendance somehow increased across the board, I think it's an investment that would go a long way towards some hope and excitement for the city. But either way I'm totally onboard for the ride.

[Scottley Crue]

I've got to say, I think this is very simple. When the team wins, this doesn't matter. Case in point: The year we went to the playoffs, the last half of that season I was in an arena full of people screaming "LET'S GO CATS! LET'S GO CATS!". The name wasn't even remotely a concern, the winning was. The Hornets were what they were and are in the past. Let them and their memories live there. (This from a guy who can't possibly count how many Hornets' games he attended)

Realistically, if someone is holding up on supporting the Bobcats because they don't like the name, they will soon find another reason to not support them. They need to just roll forward with the Bobcats name and build a winning franchise. That will definitely put some luster in the name.

[Mustachio]

haha. The name/logo conversation is good for at least 4 pages every time its brought up. love it. I think Ziggy pays people to start them to bump traffic to the site. :)

[Proudiddy]

So Proudiddy, let's say we trade Magette and Diop for LeBron and DJ for Greg Monroe. (completely impossible I know)

Kemba
Hendo
LeBron
Bismack
Monroe

That's a title contender and a surefire 50 win team. Are you trying to say they'd still suck and not get any respect or fans just because of the Boats name?

Yeah....... no........

Yeah, and as you said, that's near impossible. Unless we hit on a MJ, Lebron, Kobe-type player, the name will continue to go hand-in-hand with mediocrity.

I think another way to look at it is from the appeal standpoint - as QCThundercats said, the Hornets had a global brand. People didn't care if they sucked their first few years because the logo, name, colors, and mascot were so popular and eye-catching. They looked and sounded cool so they appealed to such a wide range of people.

I have to admit, if I was an OKC fan, I would hate their logo, although the name is fitting (but, how would you make a logo out of thunder? lol)... But, we have a lame sounding name and the primary logo is gay. Again, don't get me wrong, I love the Bobcats team, I just wish MJ would let us have a fresh start with a new name. Regardless, I'll always be a Bobcats fan, I just think a new name would make us much more popular.

And TBH Swedd, part of my point of never reaching our full potential with the current name is because if I was a star player I wouldn't consider signing with the Bobcats because the name seems like a minor league team. Combine that with the way the organization has been run since inception and it's a no brainer. Make the team appealing to more players and fans alike.

[bes628]

yeah im not 40 either.. (25)

[Talent]

I do notice a lot of younger fans who did not really live through the Charlotte Hornets thing have less of an issue with the Bobcat name. In the end it is just a name. The players on the team are what makes a name powerful or not. I remember last year reading about the panthers and the insults to that name people gave out. Now...they get some respect...and that is because they don't have a joke of a QB out there.

[SWedd523]

Yeah, and as you said, that's near impossible. Unless we hit on a MJ, Lebron, Kobe-type player, the name will continue to go hand-in-hand with mediocrity.

I think another way to look at it is from the appeal standpoint - as QCThundercats said, the Hornets had a global brand. People didn't care if they sucked their first few years because the logo, name, colors, and mascot were so popular and eye-catching. They looked and sounded cool so they appealed to such a wide range of people.

I have to admit, if I was an OKC fan, I would hate their logo, although the name is fitting (but, how would you make a logo out of thunder? lol)... But, we have a lame sounding name and the primary logo is gay. Again, don't get me wrong, I love the Bobcats team, I just wish MJ would let us have a fresh start with a new name. Regardless, I'll always be a Bobcats fan, I just think a new name would make us much more popular.

And TBH Swedd, part of my point of never reaching our full potential with the current name is because if I was a star player I wouldn't consider signing with the Bobcats because the name seems like a minor league team. Combine that with the way the organization has been run since inception and it's a no brainer. Make the team appealing to more players and fans alike.


Hitting on a generational type talent has nothing to do with our name, city, history, or anything. It's not like the nonexistent basketball gods sat back and said, "BOB-cats? More like BOOB-cats, amirite?! Instead of that Morrison kid turning into the next Larry Bird, we'll turn him into a bumbling, injured, bust. That'll show them for going with such a terrible name!"

The appeal standpoint is an impossibly different situation. when the Hornets first came into existence, it was at the height of the basketball age. It was also the first professional franchise in the city as the Panthers didn't come around until two years later. Those things contributed to a strong support base that stuck with them through the long haul because they were the early adopters.

Now look at the situation the Bobcats came into:

1. The Panthers were an established brand and their bandwagon was at an all time high after going to the Superbowl the year before
2. Long term Hornets fans were pissed with the way Shinn (and his scandal) led to the departure of the franchise and their collective heart being ripped out
3. Casual and non-fans were pissed with the H&L tax that led to the new arena being built

Any team is going to have trouble establishing a devoted fanbase under those circumstances. The Bobcats name WAS supposed to be our fresh start with a new name. See how well that turned out?

And we both know that last line is false. LeBron didn't sign in Miami because of the Heat name (because it sucks). He signed because he was going to play with Wade and Bosh, and live on South Beach. Players don't sign with a team for their name. They sign for the money they'll make, the players/coach they'll be working with, and the place they'll be living.

[Pepperz]

Hitting on a generational type talent has nothing to do with our name, city, history, or anything. It's not like the nonexistent basketball gods sat back and said, "BOB-cats? More like BOOB-cats, amirite?! Instead of that Morrison kid turning into the next Larry Bird, we'll turn him into a bumbling, injured, bust. That'll show them for going with such a terrible name!"

The appeal standpoint is an impossibly different situation. when the Hornets first came into existence, it was at the height of the basketball age. It was also the first professional franchise in the city as the Panthers didn't come around until two years later. Those things contributed to a strong support base that stuck with them through the long haul because they were the early adopters.

Now look at the situation the Bobcats came into:

1. The Panthers were an established brand and their bandwagon was at an all time high after going to the Superbowl the year before
2. Long term Hornets fans were pissed with the way Shinn (and his scandal) led to the departure of the franchise and their collective heart being ripped out
3. Casual and non-fans were pissed with the H&L tax that led to the new arena being built

Any team is going to have trouble establishing a devoted fanbase under those circumstances. The Bobcats name WAS supposed to be our fresh start with a new name. See how well that turned out?

And we both know that last line is false. LeBron didn't sign in Miami because of the Heat name (because it sucks). He signed because he was going to play with Wade and Bosh, and live on South Beach. Players don't sign with a team for their name. They sign for the money they'll make, the players/coach they'll be working with, and the place they'll be living.

Ding Ding Ding...We got a winner.

[CaptainJack1]

Our name isn't any worse than the majority of other team names. The only problem people have with it is that it isn't attached to any history or winning. As soon as that changes, the discussion will go away.

I remember when the Sonics moved and changed their name to the Thunder. Talk about a HORRIBLE name! Everybody made fun of it, and now? Nobody gives a damn because they're a contender with a top 5 player.

Correct. I bet when the Orlando Magic were formed, people were going "lolwtfmagic?", then they got Shaq and became a pretty good team in the 90's and no one cared.

Winning cures all.

[SWedd523]

Correct. I bet when the Orlando Magic were formed, people were going "lolwtfmagic?", then they got Shaq and became a pretty good team in the 90's and no one cared.

Winning cures all.

The Magic were named for Disneyland.
The Raptors were named for Jurassic Park.
The Heat were named for, uh, the high temperatures in Miami.
The Thunder were named for I have no clue.
The Lakers name came about because there are a bunch of Lakes in Minneapolis.

Seriously, almost all of the NBA names have some stupid reasoning. They just have history behind them so nobody cares. Ours will too in time.

[Veteran_Picksetter]

The appeal standpoint is an impossibly different situation. when the Hornets first came into existence, it was at the height of the basketball age. It was also the first professional franchise in the city as the Panthers didn't come around until two years later. Those things contributed to a strong support base that stuck with them through the long haul because they were the early adopters.


Swedd, is that a typo?? The Hornets were here for about 7 years without the Panthers. I must also add that Charlotte had very little nightlife when the Hornets came to town. Uptown was an after hours ghost town until around the late 90's. There were a few scattered bars/clubs here or there. But nothing like now. Hornets games were the place to see and be seen. I should know.....

[Proudiddy]

Hitting on a generational type talent has nothing to do with our name, city, history, or anything. It's not like the nonexistent basketball gods sat back and said, "BOB-cats? More like BOOB-cats, amirite?! Instead of that Morrison kid turning into the next Larry Bird, we'll turn him into a bumbling, injured, bust. That'll show them for going with such a terrible name!"

The appeal standpoint is an impossibly different situation. when the Hornets first came into existence, it was at the height of the basketball age. It was also the first professional franchise in the city as the Panthers didn't come around until two years later. Those things contributed to a strong support base that stuck with them through the long haul because they were the early adopters.

Now look at the situation the Bobcats came into:

1. The Panthers were an established brand and their bandwagon was at an all time high after going to the Superbowl the year before
2. Long term Hornets fans were pissed with the way Shinn (and his scandal) led to the departure of the franchise and their collective heart being ripped out
3. Casual and non-fans were pissed with the H&L tax that led to the new arena being built

Any team is going to have trouble establishing a devoted fanbase under those circumstances. The Bobcats name WAS supposed to be our fresh start with a new name. See how well that turned out?

And we both know that last line is false. LeBron didn't sign in Miami because of the Heat name (because it sucks). He signed because he was going to play with Wade and Bosh, and live on South Beach. Players don't sign with a team for their name. They sign for the money they'll make, the players/coach they'll be working with, and the place they'll be living.

I didn't say our name alone had anything to do with drafting a generational talent, but our name reminds me of how many times we missed on at least very good talents. You said getting an amazing talent and turning into a 50-win team every season will draw in fans and make us appealing... I said, the odds of getting a player like that is slim so that's not a logical solution to our brand/image problem.

Furthermore, the branding does have an impact on the appeal of a team. No, Lebron didn't sign solely with the Heat because of their name, but I doubt he would've signed with them (nor would Wade re-up with them) if they had wore pink and blue and been called the Cotton Candy Carnies. Being from a playing background, as low of a level as it was, I'm familiar with the culture and looks, image, and brand do matter.

How come most players don't sign a shoe deal with Starter or Voit?

So, yes, the brand, name, and image have an impact to a certain extent on a player making a decision.

I'm convinced that's part of why we've been rebuffed multiple times by players in trades (Melo and Paul). We were a midmarket town when we had the Hornets, yet we got players like Eddie Jones, Glen Rice, Divac, and Antony Mason in trades.

No one wants to come here and a huge part of the problem is our name, logo, image, and brand all having a rec.league feel to them. They already think our management is a joke, the name just cements it for them. It may have more of an impact on some players than others, but it does have an impact. That's all I'm saying.

[SWedd523]

Swedd, is that a typo?? The Hornets were here for about 7 years without the Panthers. I must also add that Charlotte had very little nightlife when the Hornets came to town. Uptown was an after hours ghost town until around the late 90's. There were a few scattered bars/clubs here or there. But nothing like now. Hornets games were the place to see and be seen. I should know.....
I got the number of years wrong but youre still arguing the same point I am. The situation in which the Hornets entered the league was much more receptive than the one the Bobcats came into

[Mustachio]

Both sides of the argument are kind of right.

The Bobcats name/brand isn't so badly damaged that it cannot be repaired with wins.

but I do think its impossible to deny the bump the franchise would receive from getting the Hornets name back. I think it would be significant. But the question really is, is it significant enough to warrant the trouble and expense that a name change would entail.

[SWedd523]

I didn't say our name alone had anything to do with drafting a generational talent, but our name reminds me of how many times we missed on at least very good talents. You said getting an amazing talent and turning into a 50-win team every season will draw in fans and make us appealing... I said, the odds of getting a player like that is slim so that's not a logical solution to our brand/image problem.
No. My point was that a) it seems like the crux of your argument seems to be that our name is holding us back from garnering any sort of fan support and b) you'd be silly to think that the fans would still complain about the name of a perennially contending team. The OKC Thunder are an perfect example of this.


Furthermore, the branding does have an impact on the appeal of a team. No, Lebron didn't sign solely with the Heat because of their name, but I doubt he would've signed with them (nor would Wade re-up with them) if they had wore pink and blue and been called the Cotton Candy Carnies. Being from a playing background, as low of a level as it was, I'm familiar with the culture and looks, image, and brand do matter.
Of course branding has something to do with it. But we aren't talking about a name so terrible that nobody would support it. I'm from a town by the name of Indian Land and played every sport imaginable all up through high school so I know what it's like to play for a school/team with a goofy name. Every person our age is in tune with the power of branding.


How come most players don't sign a shoe deal with Starter or Voit?
Starter was way popular back in the day. In fact, they had a deal to distribute clothing for the Hornets. Why didn't Cam and Kemba sign with Nike?


No one wants to come here and a huge part of the problem is our name, logo, image, and brand all having a rec.league feel to them. They already think our management is a joke, the name just cements it for them. It may have more of an impact on some players than others, but it does have an impact. That's all I'm saying.
Nobody wants to come here because we suck. Simple as that. You know as well as I do that players are different today than they used to be. Playing together is much more important than playing against each other. They won't come here until they think they can win. That's why drafting is so important.

And I still don't see how Bobcats is any more rec league than "Heat, Magic, Thunder, Lakers, Raptors, etc."

[QC Thundercats]

I think the debate here is starting to veer off on the wrong point. It seems people actually agree about what the strength of a brand means, but I think the real issue is the effect a brand has on the community and potential fanbase, and not on its drawing power to free agents.

My point: Going back to the Hornets name - again, it was a global brand, kids and adults loved it all over. But the Charlotte Hornets name did not attract big name free agents either. Kobe wanted nothing to do with the brand. Zo couldn't wait to leave, same as Eddie Jones. We got the really good players by an astute GM who drafted well or traded for players still on long term contracts. Look at our big names:

Zo - Drafted
LJ - Drafted
Muggsy - expansion draft
Gill - Drafted
Rice - Traded
Divac - Traded
Jones - Traded
Mason - Traded
Mashburn - Traded
Baron - Drafted

The big time free agents were.... David Wesley? Bobby Phills?? Derrick Coleman??? The point is, the brand name, whatever it is, will have no affect on the Charlotte market. It is a great place to raise a family, but is not appealing to young millionaire athletes looking to sow their wild oats. However, if we are the only destination offering big money, a player will come to the Bobcats. If we have a culture of winning, and a player wants to be a part of that, he will come to the Bobcats, just like they would go to the Jazz or the Bucks if the opportunity presented itself.

But like I stated before, what makes the brand so important is for fan and community pride. For all of us reading this, if you took the time to look up and discover a message board called bobcatsplanet.com, created a user name, and posted or read many messages, you are a diehard fan, and would root for the team if they were called the Charlotte Butterflies (and would be cheering "let's go FLIES!!!")

How many diehards are there though? Hundreds, maybe a thousand or two? Well, the arena seats almost 20,000. Merchandising sales rely first on the metropolitan area of close to a million people, and ideally stretches to the rest of the Carolinas population of 14 million people. The "Butterflies" brand would not reach past the diehards. The Bobcats brand hardly resonates within the Charlotte metropolitan area, let alone the two states. The Hornets brand however blew past the borders by a million miles. Growing up, when I was vacationing out of town or at a camp, when I told people I was from Charlotte, they were like, "oh yeah, Charlotte Hornets", even if we were nowhere near NC.

So to sum it up, "diehards" care little about the image, they just love the game and root for the guys on our team. "General fans" want to support a good product, and this includes winning and a good image to be proud of. "Casual fans" are most annoying to us diehards, but they are a necessary evil, as they fill out the rest of the arena and contribute to most of the merchandise sales. They care about being part of a trend and looking cool, and a weak brand will turn them off, as they would just continue posing as Laker, Heat, or Knicks fans. Write them off all you want, but then you'd have a half empty arena, with no enthusiasm around the team.

But if we want to build a buzz around the team and become a trend and create a cycle of success, winning and image go hand in hand to create an appealing environment. I personally don't feel the Bobcats brand is that strong, even if it was coupled with success. Ideally I'd like the Hornets name back, but its not necessary to me, I just would like to see a stronger brand to solidify the future of our beloved Charlotte ____'s.

[Veteran_Picksetter]

I got the number of years wrong but youre still arguing the same point I am. The situation in which the Hornets entered the league was much more receptive than the one the Bobcats came into

Exactly. Totally agree.

[SWedd523]

I think the debate here is starting to veer off on the wrong point. It seems people actually agree about what the strength of a brand means, but I think the real issue is the effect a brand has on the community and potential fanbase, and not on its drawing power to free agents.

My point: Going back to the Hornets name - again, it was a global brand, kids and adults loved it all over. But the Charlotte Hornets name did not attract big name free agents either. Kobe wanted nothing to do with the brand. Zo couldn't wait to leave, same as Eddie Jones. We got the really good players by an astute GM who drafted well or traded for players still on long term contracts. Look at our big names:

Zo - Drafted
LJ - Drafted
Muggsy - expansion draft
Gill - Drafted
Rice - Traded
Divac - Traded
Jones - Traded
Mason - Traded
Mashburn - Traded
Baron - Drafted

The big time free agents were.... David Wesley? Bobby Phills?? Derrick Coleman??? The point is, the brand name, whatever it is, will have no affect on the Charlotte market. It is a great place to raise a family, but is not appealing to young millionaire athletes looking to sow their wild oats. However, if we are the only destination offering big money, a player will come to the Bobcats. If we have a culture of winning, and a player wants to be a part of that, he will come to the Bobcats, just like they would go to the Jazz or the Bucks if the opportunity presented itself.

But like I stated before, what makes the brand so important is for fan and community pride. For all of us reading this, if you took the time to look up and discover a message board called bobcatsplanet.com, created a user name, and posted or read many messages, you are a diehard fan, and would root for the team if they were called the Charlotte Butterflies (and would be cheering "let's go FLIES!!!")

How many diehards are there though? Hundreds, maybe a thousand or two? Well, the arena seats almost 20,000. Merchandising sales rely first on the metropolitan area of close to a million people, and ideally stretches to the rest of the Carolinas population of 14 million people. The "Butterflies" brand would not reach past the diehards. The Bobcats brand hardly resonates within the Charlotte metropolitan area, let alone the two states. The Hornets brand however blew past the borders by a million miles. Growing up, when I was vacationing out of town or at a camp, when I told people I was from Charlotte, they were like, "oh yeah, Charlotte Hornets", even if we were nowhere near NC.

So to sum it up, "diehards" care little about the image, they just love the game and root for the guys on our team. "General fans" want to support a good product, and this includes winning and a good image to be proud of. "Casual fans" are most annoying to us diehards, but they are a necessary evil, as they fill out the rest of the arena and contribute to most of the merchandise sales. They care about being part of a trend and looking cool, and a weak brand will turn them off, as they would just continue posing as Laker, Heat, or Knicks fans. Write them off all you want, but then you'd have a half empty arena, with no enthusiasm around the team.

But if we want to build a buzz around the team and become a trend and create a cycle of success, winning and image go hand in hand to create an appealing environment. I personally don't feel the Bobcats brand is that strong, even if it was coupled with success. Ideally I'd like the Hornets name back, but its not necessary to me, I just would like to see a stronger brand to solidify the future of our beloved Charlotte ____'s.

The overarching argument I (and a few other members) and a few other members are making is that a brand can be made out of just about anything given due time and ample opportunity. The only reason the Bobcats brand doesn't seem strong enough is that it's been in existence for less than a decade and has had to endure both a saturated market and questionable franchise decisions. Bobcats isn't any worse than a host of other names out there. Give 'em a chance.

(And I say that as a person who doesn't really like the name or colors)

[MadBOBCATfanUK]

Probably completely irrelevant but I found out today that two of my friends have Charlotte Hornets snapbacks and they have no interest in basketball whatsoever. This is in England btw.

[bes628]

Probably completely irrelevant but I found out today that two of my friends have Charlotte Hornets snapbacks and they have no interest in basketball whatsoever. This is in England btw.

Charlotte Hornet Snapbacks are huge right now. You can't walk into a hat store and not see whole racks of them, in several different styles.